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Gold Liquidations Open Thread
Update: Yep - it was a leak of a margin hike as just confirmed. Which may very well mean nobody actually had to liquidate, just the herd thundered, as it always does, in the wrong diraction. Expect gold to actually rise on this news.
Everyone knew they were coming... Just not when. Now that the gold liquidation frenzy has struck we still don't know much if anything: who was it, why, and where did the money go? Some rumors have it as a bank in Central, Eastern Europe unwinding massive PM positions, which if true is paradoxically bullish for gold and silver as reported previously, as it means the already tight liquidity situation in Europe is about to come to a head, possibly as soon as this weekend. Others speculate it was a plain vanilla satisfaction of collateral requirements by a big funds who may or may not be liquidating and who have sizable gold positions. Or, the simplest explanation, was it simply an expectation (and leak) of a gold margin hike? For all these questions and more, as well as to vent over anything and everything, use the following open thread.
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Wasn't me.
Funny, I was about to say: It was me.
Platinum is where it's at kitties
To have a short position, someone either needs to own the security, or needs to be able to locate it; the latter is when we call it a 'naked short'. There is not enough gold bullion to locate to justify their short positions. This mean that their shorts are unqualified. So if the CFTC ever decided to be a properly run government organization (they won't be) then they would regulate the shorts, sanction JPM et al, and nix the shorts.
Yet, just like in life, reality always descends eventually. There will be a time when traders understand what is happening, and there will be a panic move to get physical. I don't think this will happen until gold is in the range of $3300-$5k. Once it does there is no top on gold. It could go to $10k, it could go to $40k, it may very well take the dollar under and its price be invaluable.
To put this in context, look at oil. Who bought the SPR release, and why? JPM did, so they could locate their shorts. The oil market is better regulated than gold, and so they needed to prove their shorts. Thus Obama did another favor for the Banking Houses and greenlighted the release; JPM bought the oil and stashed it offshore, and JPM bought their short positions.
Of course, there is a direct way to go after these measures, and that is by buying physical silver. Silver trades with oil 1:1 on the long term. Oil trades inversely 1:1 with the dollar on the long term. Take a position on silver, and you take the most promising short position against the dollar possible. Shorting the dollar is the final battle, because it is the dollar that holds the world from reclaiming its prosperity. The dollar backs the Banking Houses; it is their only weapon in the financial war that has destroyed the America our fore fathers built. The dollar, and the corporations that back it, is exactly why this great country was founded.
It funds the war machine, and it is the war machine that is Wall Streets prize possession. Without it, Wall Street has no power over the oil producing States. The dollar is soaked in the blood of young Americans who have been stricken by poverty and had little options available. The catch 22 of the dollar has pitted America against itself.
Victory will be had by real monie, because the dollar has no backing and is an amalgamation of creative thinking. Alchemy took hold of money after the philosopher's stone failed. The dollar has no intrinsic value; it has no general worth and is merely an IOU. The dollar is backed by lies.
Silver is real monie. This real monie has had the same short positions unjustly levied against it. Since silver is cheap, it is rather easy for us to target. It is the belly of the beast.
I will be visiting the coin store today, and I will be buying with both hands. I believe that our best hope to take the Banking Houses down is to take possession of silver. This because silver is a very industrial commodity and if we squeeze the physical market the price will rise. Then, when the price rises due to supply constraints, JPM's shorts will crush their balance sheet- this has already been happening over the course of the last year and a half, since we started our movement. So please, join me, take down the Banking Houses, take back your monie and wealth, and take back your freedom!
BUY SILVER!
Three things to have in the safe: cash for deflation, PMs for inflation, and a couple pistols with deep mags (for either)
Fight club was hopping today bitches.
Stop worrying, bitchez.
G&S fundamentals didn't change today. We just experienced a liquidation by some leveraged hedgies with balance sheet pressures (maybe they were long NFLX?)
BTFD.
http://azizonomics.com/2011/09/23/economy-tanking-precious-metals-in-liquidation/
Right. Because even when facts don't support your ideology, they support your ideology.
In retrospect, it should have been "Goldbug Whining Thread".
If you are a bullion bank, dont forget to email your favorite CFTC Commisioners and tell them what a great job they are doing, and that their checks are in the mail (?). If you are everyone else, email them and tell them what corrupt (ala CFTC Justice Painter) nincompoops they are.
jsommers@cftc.gov ; MDunn@cftc.gov ; Somalia@cftc.gov ; ggensler@cftc.gov ; bchilton@cftc.gov
In August as well as now, the CME raised margins just prior to options expiry.
Does anyone at this point need further evidence that the CME serves the ever-short Bullion Banks, and that the thumb-twiddling, look-the-other-way CFTC serves the CME?
Im guessing that by now, Ted Butler isnt expecting anything but more business as usual from Gary Gensler and his appartchik Commisars.
@"Maniac Researcher"
"Right. Because even when facts don't support your ideology, they support your ideology."
Please specify which facts you are refering to...
@ Richard Chesler
"In retrospect, it should have been "Goldbug Whining Thread"."
Actually, his alternate title was, "Gold Trolls who are mad they missed the profits, while those who bought in years ago lol at them, and their momentum-chasing-weak-hand-margin-buying gold buddies....failgloat thread which will be used for future quoting to show how ignorant they are, thread-Thread"
But it was too long :D
100:1.....losers to winners.
First bought gold at $273.....when everyone was making fun of me.
It's still over $1600.....go ahead.....make fun of me.
Ha, Ha. You're only up 500%.
I'm not good at math. I bot AG at $5.50oz waaaaaaaaay back when. How much am I up? BWAAAAAAAAAAAHHHAAAAAAAA
I am having guesses that everyone was making funs of you for reasons not having anything to be about gold. Maybe they would be having even more funs of you if they were knowing you think you are being laughed at for something different than for being the man you are.
There are no more internal controls by the people of the situation. The international banking cartel is now operating lawlessly.
What to do about them, what to do?
I'll be sure to get right on dignifying your questioning of the obvious with a comment, Eisley.
Instead, here's a bedtime story:
You want to rally the masses to your cause. You know things are wrong in the world and if only you could convince everyone to see things your way, maybe they'd join your team! Then real change could be made!
No one is on the libertarian team. You are all rugged individualists, remember? You can't have it both ways.
No roads, no rail, no airports, no power lines, no water mains, no sewer connections, no schools, no police, no fire protection, and no military for you. You're on your own. No taxed infrastructure. No government agencies of any kind to support any of your endeavors, whatsoever. You'll have to be your own engineer, your own doctor, your own fireman, and your own protector. I'm sure you'll be able to find substitutes for a while until your gold runs out. You'll try to avoid thinking too deeply about the inherent hypocrisy of such exchanges at this stage. Later you'll complain about the lack of "regulations" when the local warlord demands tribute.
As time passes, your own children will take your rhetoric to heart and complain about "regulations" when you attempt to get them to work for you. If you're lucky and not infirm, you'll still be able to inflict violence on both them and your spouse if they "give you lip." You'll remind them of the violence you've already inflicted (both real and imagined) on others - including despicable minority groups - to keep them in line. Perhaps you'll display the mutilated corpses of blacks, jews, or muslims on "your land" as a warning.
Later, roving mobs will take your food, guns, and valuables by force. On the upside, they'll leave your Ayn Rand and your Murray Rothbard books behind. You will most likely be murdered in the process. Luckily, the death penalty will have been reinstated everywhere, so there won't be any moral dilemma surrounding your ultimate demise.
Sleep tight and keep striving for your ideals!
answer:
you have no facts, so like a wise man once said, "shut the fuck up lil bitch"...
Internet Researcher's lol-ilquoy of time wasting incorrectness, part deux
"You want to rally the masses to your cause."
He says masses cause he has a false sense of superiority over other people not realizing in all the three years of his arts degree, that he is in fact the very Walmart Shopping masses he despises...
"You know things are wrong in the world and if only you could convince everyone to see things your way, maybe they'd join your team! Then real change could be made!
No one is on the libertarian team. You are all rugged individualists, remember? You can't have it both ways."
He is mad because he got beat up at a Ron Paul convention, and the damage to his brain made him assume people who arent American, or Libertarian, ARE BOTH, simply because he is American, and anyone who is in favour of being free of tyranny, must fit into his tiny limited political world view.
"No roads, no rail, no airports, no power lines, no water mains, no sewer connections, no schools, no police, no fire protection, and no military for you. You're on your own. No taxed infrastructure. No government agencies of any kind to support any of your endeavors, whatsoever."
He describes living self sufficiently off the land as something strange, because he has never been to a self-sufficient farm, that homeschools
"You'll have to be your own engineer, your own doctor, your own fireman, and your own protector."
Struggling to get a 3 year art degree, means that he doesnt realize that other people could actually BE professionals, say Vice President of Product Development for a private software company, and have an Engineering Degree, and a Masters of Theology,
because highly educated, well rounded people capable of taking care of themselves, arent also interested in fringe blogs, farms, and obliterating foolish kids on the internet
"I'm sure you'll be able to find substitutes for a while until your gold runs out. You'll try to avoid thinking too deeply about the inherent hypocrisy of such exchanges at this stage. Later you'll complain about the lack of "regulations" when the local warlord demands tribute."
Of course, someone who is in favour of not having their money inflated away, and instead likes to own things like land and percious metals, would not be able to look after themselves if hard times came. Definitely wouldnt be friends with his neighbours, nor would he have a big
family of cousins, brothers, uncles, aunts, children, and so forth to be able to work together as a community. But even if such a person existed, they wouldnt have a plan to get away before warlords took over. Cause really, if an internet researcher isnt prepared, no one else could be...
"As time passes, your own children will take your rhetoric to heart and complain about "regulations" when you attempt to get them to work for you. If you're lucky and not infirm, you'll still be able to inflict violence on both them and your spouse if they "give you lip." You'll remind them of the violence you've already inflicted (both real and imagined) on others"
While speaking of family and children he doesnt have, since the only thing one can do, is let tv parent ones kids, and use time outs for punishment, while talking down to ones kids like they are mentally handicapped, those kids of course would never respect their parents and the only way views internet researchers dont agree with can be spread is by someone FORCING their kids to believe it.
"including despicable minority groups - to keep them in line. Perhaps you'll display the mutilated corpses of blacks, jews, or muslims on "your land" as a warning."
The racist internet researcher then points out he's not racist, he was friends with a black guy once, even though he cant even mention such a thing without including labels like "minority group", cause he cant just see people as people. Then of course, he isnt married, doesnt have kids, and his wedding party didnt have four different races in it.
"Later, roving mobs will take your food, guns, and valuables by force."
and since he lives in fear, and thinks only guns can protect you (while not believing in God also of course), then everyone MUST own guns
"On the upside, they'll leave your Ayn Rand and your Murray Rothbard books behind. You will most likely be murdered in the process. Luckily, the death penalty will have been reinstated everywhere, so there won't be any moral dilemma surrounding your ultimate demise."
Of course, people with Masters Degrees in Theology always love to collect anti-REligious secular humanist garbage like ayn rand books, and are pro-death penalty inspite of their Religion objecting to its use.
"Sleep tight and keep striving for your ideals!"
Yup, internet researcher knows his stuff, google told him so, as did wikipedia, which is why like the Steel Workers of America
He keeps reaching for that rainbow!!
Thanks. I am too tired at the moment to retort to his hypothetical, contrived, alarmist and ..apparently content-with-the-direction-things-are-going pile of crap
at the end of the day, you have to laugh at people posting on a blog where they hate every article, and all the people who post on it.
ROFL
he just wants attention, i told him before he has to earn the right to argue with me :), but these posts were worth the laughs.
OT
With whose money are they supposidly going to recapitalize the European Banks? Rothchild's money?
apparently ManiacResearcher aka http://twitter.com/#!/designerdean is going to take up the cause... ROFLMAO
I just wanted to see how small the reply boxes could get in this reply chain....
smaller still :)
but they arent that small....on 24inch widescreen...
**EDIT
Bye bye Maniac Researcher. Back to huffington post and glen beck tv. I know you are still there reading this, YOU MAD?
i'll catch your new accounts t0o once you started posting again. You are done harassing people on zero hedge.
I am sure your KUBE clients would love some emails from zero hedge about your activities on here...... LOL
Maniac Researcher:
http://www.google.ca/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=Dean+Kujala&oq=Dean+K...
Maniac Researcher:
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=Dean+Kujala+411&oq=Dean+Kujala+411&a...
Maniac Reseacher:
http://twitter.com/#!/designerdean
Maniac Reseacher:
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/533293118/me2_june-06_12_reasonably_s...
So tell the vancouver libertarians what you really think of them......
OWNED, and you're done...
This guy was under another name before, methinks. Argument very similar to another troll.
Unless there are two of them.......in which case we're in for double the laughs.
Something comes to mind regarding trolls ... fire ??? or was that acid ???
Very obtuse reference.
But I did want to get in on the skinny post thing. It's a late night after a hell of a two weeks at work. I could watch paint dry on the wall and feel fortunate for the free time to relax ...
Regards,
Cooter
he deleted his account LOL
http://www.zerohedge.com/users/maniac-researcher
OWNED... who's the tough guy now DEAN?
Don't waste your time... especially when you're NOT tired! :)
You seem to have it all figured out, huh? Your pile of strawmen were worth a few laughs. Thanks.
First, I had a three year art degree, then I was a "non-professional" then an internet researcher (whatever that means), then I was an unmarried, non-minority, a secular humanist, then had a Masters in Theology, and finally an avid Wikipedia reader. Huh, I must have cornered some sort of market as a secular theologian. Hmm.
Perhaps you should write resumes, Eisely. Obviously, it bothers you that you have nothing on me other than what I've put forth.
(You'd actually be able to piece together more of my professional credentials if you read some of my earlier posts over the last couple of years)
Look I know it stings a bit. But bed time stories are for your own good. Quit imagining the story teller and concentrate on the story.
Shhh, little one. ;)
your name is InternetResearcher, and you are confusing yourself.
The bad parts were about you, the good parts were things about me. I know its hard for you to follow, but thats the breaks when you come to a place that doesnt have a coles notes, or for dummies book to read.
Nothing bothers me except the fact that you embarass yourself so bad, it makes me cringe, like that mikey quote i used on you from swingers the other day.
I feel sorry for you.
So, as you know, you have to earn the right to argue, I was nice and did allow some communication for the humor of others on here, which is why the green arrows flow. I appreciate you trying to use "lil" as an adjective, and trying to borrow some of my moves i crush you with, but seriously
stop calling mikey........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0PUrNwvvBk
Uses talking-to-pet voice:
Awwwww Who's a wittle tough guy? You are! Yes you are! Who's a cute wittle internet thug! Are you going to pretend to cwush things? Awwwww. He's wagging his tail! He thinks he's winning arguments! He's sooo cute!
Whadda cute widdle guy. He thinks he's people.
You are the antagonist kind sir.
LOL, owned again
EDIT
hey maniacresearcher, let me know if this is you http://twitter.com/#!/designerdean
mmmmmmmmmmmmmkay :D ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOFL
and he deleted his account LOL
**EDIT
Back to huffington post and glen beck tv. I know you are still there reading this, YOU MAD?
i'll catch your new accounts t0o once you started posting again. You are done harassing people on zero hedge.
I am sure your KUBE clients would love some emails from zero hedge about your activities on here...... LOL
Maniac Researcher:
http://www.google.ca/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=Dean+Kujala&oq=Dean+K...
Maniac Researcher:
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=Dean+Kujala+411&oq=Dean+Kujala+411&a...
Maniac Reseacher:
http://twitter.com/#!/designerdean
Maniac Reseacher:
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/533293118/me2_june-06_12_reasonably_s...
So tell the vancouver libertarians what you really think of them......
OWNED, and you're done...
keep trying Dean...lol
like my new avatar pic?
.
Brevity is the soul of wit?
and the replacement of duplicate posts...
???? I would rather
1.private roads..I'll pay a 2c toll every 10 miles to keep the infrustructure in place and maybe 6c for the shortcut when I REALLY NEED TO GET SOMEWHERE=D
2.rail ..Private business did that fine for the longest time and kept up the infrastrucure to boot
3.airports..I don't remember the government inventing those...and I'm sure the private industries can bring me to the the desired location quickly (and more economically) and safely (no children getting molested and cancer machines..pilots will be aloud to have guns and private security and MAYBE SOME LOCKS ON THE FUCKING COCKPITS!!)
4. Infrastructure...I'm sure local communities can raise money from the people who giving up their enslavement to the tax machine...will be able to more better afford with the decent wages they will inheret to raise capital in a non coercive matter to get any "COMMUNITY" infrastructure managed...
5. water mains ( this one hits the best because my stepdad works for the county) maybe water treatment people would be able to lay the pipes and repair them without having to worry about some god damn turtle burrowing 50 feet underground and getting close to the 500 million gallon reseviour and just fucking remove it already (it's endangered so maybe they could take it grow the population and make some soup out of them)
6. how about the community finds genuinely honest individuals to compete for contracts of tracking people down...you know competition??? maybe criminals might get taken care of instead of the jails being loaded with teenagers who got caught with one to many "nickel bags"
7. Fire protection is what "INSURANCE IS FOR" and if you would rather not go to a jury of youir peers and get slapped with a lawsuite you might want to hire some private firefighters for a payment once a month!!!
8. NO GOVERvMENT AGENCIES SOUNDS GREAT MAYBE PEOPLE WILL LEAD HAPPIER LIVES WITHOUT SOME FUCKING PUNK BITCH CLOWN BREATHING DOWN THEIR NECK GUILT TRIPPING THEM
.9 no military SOUNDS GREAT!!! NO MORE STANDING FUCKING ARMIES KILLING BROWN PEOPLE ON OTHER PAYED FOR BY PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT IT (wasn't military supposed to be the local "militia" in this country?
.10 I saved the best for last...the school system in this country is a fucking joke look up the tests from 1890 for an 8th grader I bet you couldn't pass them..and whatever happened to apprenticeship in this country you learn more being on the job (doing what your trying to learn how to do) then any other form of education...Me I'm not to far out of the school system yet and I can tell you...YOU DON'T GET YOUR FUCKING MONEYS WORTH AND HALF MY GENERATION SKIPS OR DROPS OUT ANYWAY HOWS THAT "EDUMACATIONS WORKING OUR FOR YOUR YOUTH NOW"
p.s. I don't see what color or minority groups has to do with this statement...you seem to simply be a bigoted clown trying to project your beliefs into a group of people that at the heart believes in non-coercion of any form
P.S.S if it wasn't for the government MANDATING these shit pieces of toilet paper with dead presidents being passed around the exploiters of this country would have long been strung and hung from telephone poles set as an examples of what mass exploitation gets you...that warlord your talking about can't handle a whole town of angry ass people with guns history shows that....the only thing stopping us from living in peace is your diety the state....Piss off you little state cocksucking ignoramous let the adults have real conversation go beg somewhere...
@internet(maniac) researcher
Not only did you get owned by me, but you found some actual libertarians to own you as well.
like he said, big table's for adults, go argue false left/right paradigm BS on huffington post or glenn beck tv with the other kiddies...
If you mean my comment opened up a flood of defensive responses chock-full of misinformed viewpoints, fallacy arguments, and blatant falsehoods with little intellectual merit, then yes, Eisely. I guess I was "owned."
Please. The butthurt nature of the comments above say something else quite loud and clear. Can you guess what that is?
There aren't enough brains between all of you to constitute one rationally formed argument, as I've demonstrated on numerous occasions.
Tyler -- this is all your fans have? They were more articulate and were able to summon actual facts to support their arguments back in 2009. What happened?
Please though, continue to waste your time and energy on little old me. Perhaps that'll keep your ignorant asses off the streets.
I consider my public service complete for the evening. Cheers.
lol, you made your longest post after you said that last time.
if getting owned, and making people laugh at you is a public service, keep up the good work.
a.) you do know tyler isnt one person right? lol
b.) the only thing butthurt is you. This guy crushed you, and like you had no facts, you have no reply to him either. You are out of your league, dithering like a fool, while fight club ownz your ass.
I love how you can only borrow things I say, rather than come up with your own statements - that is, other than repeated use of the word "crush." What a tough guy.
Really, I'm soo intimidated. I surely won't be back to rip on intellectually bankrupt arguments, analyses, and worldviews later. I would say "your" worldviews, Eisely - but me'thinks you don't have much of an intellect to speak of. Other than crushing things! Laughs.
annnnnnnnnnnnnnd he keeps posting as predicted lol.
tell your story walking
Crush! Crush! I'm crushing your heads!
**EDIT
CRUSHING is when you delete your account Dean. Back to huffington post and glen beck tv. I know you are still there reading this, YOU MAD?
i'll catch your new accounts t0o once you started posting again. You are done harassing people on zero hedge.
I am sure your KUBE clients would love some emails from zero hedge about your activities on here...... LOL
Maniac Researcher:
http://www.google.ca/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=Dean+Kujala&oq=Dean+K...
Maniac Researcher:
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=Dean+Kujala+411&oq=Dean+Kujala+411&a...
Maniac Reseacher:
http://twitter.com/#!/designerdean
Maniac Reseacher:
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/533293118/me2_june-06_12_reasonably_s...
So tell the vancouver libertarians what you really think of them......
OWNED, and you're done...
Oh I see now, he is Canadian.
i am Canadian, but I found out now he is too :D
A little birdy (maybe the one he was petting), told me our friendly neighbourhood troll might actually be:
http://twitter.com/#!/designerdean
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Click on his name, is it just me or did he delete his account.......
http://www.zerohedge.com/users/maniac-researcher
OWNED... who's the tough guy now DEAN?
You got my vote, you are Ron Paul, aren't you?
What a moron. Fun no doubt for you to levy criticism on that which you do not understand. Laying out the most extreme parameters of Libertarianism is no different than to project that deep down inside, every leftist/progressive desires the North Korea model.
Each and every single 'no' you reference could in fact be provided for in a true free market system. In fact IT WOULD BE YOU DUMB ASS. Now if it were more efficient to consolidate most of those beneficial/necessary infrastructure items into a government structure then so be it.
You progs are such strange puppies. You promote big daddy government and yet hate war, corruption, abuse of power ect.....
Has it ever occurred to you that so much of what you whine about is possible only because of big daddy government?
Liberty is not about lack of rules. It is about sensible rules and individual dignity.
Keep hating and sleep well moron.
Maniac Researcher, "There aren't enough brains between all of you to constitute one rationally formed argument, as I've demonstrated on numerous occasions."
Your the guy that thinks society will fall apart without Govt.. Wow what a great job they're doing ripping it apart across Europe, America, Arabia and Asia (not that a Govt-drip-fed cretin like you would notice!)... how many countries has your monopoly institution destroyed now, both with its economic rape and with its military violence?
Check the history books fukwit, freedom (of individuals) enriches, institutions enslave and empoverish. When you've got a "formed argument", an informed argument or an historically accurate fact based one, please come back without your peanut brained head up your arse and dripping in deep Statist ignorance
actually, he is the guy that...
owns this twitter account http://twitter.com/#!/designerdean
ROOOOFL
Great post. Hall of Fame.
Go Maniac!!!!
Hall of fame for humiliating himself, let me guess, real life friends ROFLMAO
what's going on in Delta, BC?
Tell Dean what's up, from eisley
annnnnnnd he deleted his account. Hall of Fame indeed :D
The peoplel who put their lives and their families' lives on the line to create the Constitution of the United States Of America would be rolling in their graves at your monologue.
upside down, inside out, all around sprial thinking........it is a challenge to think,...... and so very well written.
Here's the thing, nitwit.
There is a huge Libertarian 'team'. Of course, it's self-organizing, it's not always clear who's on the team, and its always surprising to find out that people enjoy their individuality when the statists try to take control.
Sure, statists 'win' every now and then, and gain control, but the problem is being a statist means you spend way too much time keeping people cowed. So you win for a while, and you scare a few individuals, get them convinced that there is no 'team' out there they can rely on, and some believe it.
Before too long, though, there's a mass rally a bunch of unmanageable events and then you and your moron friends are screaming 'call in the army'.
That's when things have to really happen. Either the state is overthrown (the current trend) or the state has to crack down and hard - Tiananmen style. But even after they crack down, they realize things have to change, and change fast, lest another rally happen and they look bad on the world stage.
Remember this, the world was made by individuals and individual initiative. Maybe not Libertarians per se, but certainly the belief that 'what's in it for me' is a worthy driver of ambition.
See ya at the gallows, POS.
+
Is it better to be a sheep not knowing your being led to the slaughter, fat and happy? Or, is it better to the wolf who knows the pain of hunger but controls his own destiny? Guess I'll be howling tonight.
Silly straw men, maniac. How about some reasonable discourse?
"No roads, no rail, no airports, no power lines, no water mains, no sewer connections, no schools, no police, no fire protection, and no military for you. You're on your own."
Apparently, someone doesn't know the difference between a Libertarian and an Anarchist. Let me help them out. A Libertarian believes in a Limited and Restricted Federal GOVERNMENT (Railroads, Highways, Etc...), with most issues like, fire, police , sewage, schools, etc.. being handled on a local GOVERNMNET level.
An Anarchist believes in NO GOVERNMENT.
I hope this clears things up for them.
BTW, I got in silver at $9 Dec. 2008. Never thought I'd see $30 again after Aug. I am about to buy as much as I can now. It's a dream come true! BTFDs'!
That's your problem. You think you need a government to have a school system? You think you need a government to have a sewer?
People used to have similar superstitions about religion, but thankfully at least that is fading away.
Those times of austerity you map out above - they're coming our way because fuckers like you got your way for too long and fucked it all up for everybody. There's a bullet out there somewhere with your name on it, count on it. You will be held to account.
Rigged or not, I'm liquidating my spam stockpile and buying some gold!
I love Spam eggs bacon and sausage!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE
There, fixed it for you.
US dollar down 96% against gold since creation of the Fed.
Goldbugs winning indeed.
This is hugely bullish for PM's. Margin hikes have an ever decreasing marginal effect, and the longs will be STRONG now.
But, I do know that a 20% drop in the 'printed' price of silver is nothing more than JPM and HSBC using the timing of Benocide and other factors to collude and drive it down. No tangible asset in the world, that I know of, loses 20% value in 48 hours. And we're talking about an asset that's been around since the dawn of time.
I'm buying more phyzz.... JPM can blow me.
After gouging my eyes out and becoming a whirling dervish of complete self destruction and despair, I went to the coin shop.
No generic silver left. Many phone calls reserving the last Maples and Eagles until the customers could get there to pay in person.
Poor owners were laughing that they wanted to jump out the window, but they are on the first floor.
"After gouging my eyes out and becoming a whirling dervish of complete self destruction and despair"
That type of feeling can only be induced by over concentration in an asset. Physical Metals are the way to go, but equally important is having no debt, owning your house/car, out right, etc. Actual Physical metals are by definition a buy and hold investment. You pay margin coming and going, and in most places(when you arent dodging), you have to pay capital gains tax as well. Those taking physical delivery should never get caught up in short term price fluctuations, or you are playing the wrong game. You might as well stick to the rigged paper markets for precious metals, if you need to get in and out quickly. Then just hope you can read the signs well enough to get all the way out before it eventually fails completely...
Solid advice. I'm admittedly a bit of a drama queen.
i wasnt knocking you, just thinking, "what would it take for me to feel that way, well, i'd have to want or need to convert my holdings soon".
With physical metals (unlike companies or countries that can go away), given long enough it WILL be worth more. Your metal doesnt have maintenance costs, beyond storing it. The only possibilities to prevent its rise in "value" is for inflation to never return (lol), or for a new currency to replace the one you measure it in. But in that case, while the numerical unit might be smaller, its actual "value", will just have increased, along with everything else that is real and physical, into the new depreciated currency.
I'm an AU cockroach and I'm actually partying! Got to love the volatility when you love tonguing the physical. mmmmmmmbaby, bring it down. I'm ready!
Who's whining? I'm rejoicing that I have yet anoter opportunity to buy more on the cheap.....
dumbass
Re. Who's whining?
The Chinese are winning. Prices are down. They're accumulating.
The facts are the same. The last 2 days was a hedgie liquidation. Global financial system still totally fucked up. Markets jittery, panicked. They won't stabilize without more QE — OT2 wasn't enough. Bernanke doesn't have the stomach to watch "aggregate demand" tank and debt deflation and bank failures develop. He will print, markets will levitate, and gold will go through another expansionary cycle all the way up to $2500-2800 by the end of next year.
I actually called this whole thing a month ago. No QE3, markets tank, gold falls in the short term (I said $1700 when we hit $1920, so if this is the end of the rout I was $50 out) and rises when Benny announces QE3 probably at the time of Greece's default
BTFD.
I did, they're shiny 2011's, $36.00 cash on the barrelhead, no reciept...just the way I like it ;-)
Bought a roll and a bunch of bars, about twice my monthly avg. Just felt like the thing to do...
"Just felt like the thing to do..."
Yeah man!
At the brick & mortar place I deal with, the girl quoted me $30.00 each for a roll...I put on my best poker face and said gimme five singles...she was quoting me the spot...no premium.
The mom (who the girl asked on the quote) was on the phone yapping to someone about "its down" and the husband (who I usually deal with) was talking to another customer.
They're good people and the husband will trade me out straight up for gold whenever I'm ready, I wasn't going to hook them...more properly said on my part...when the damned ratio gets to the level DoChen nailed (and announced here) a few months back...lol.
Turd & him are the ones to give great credence to on that...I missed that golden opportunity ;-)
Nice!
Checked Ebay a bit earlier, even though I'm not going to be able to pull the trigger for another week, and there was nothing, and I mean nothing, under $40- and they all had healthy quantities of bids.
Whoever owns your local Ag emporium is a fool... lucky you!
They do have good volume there, buying and selling.
I've been there a couple times and seen some selling as fiat price rose...these appeared to be the down and outs (the sellers) with a few young couples mixed in struggling as they start out in life...just as we all did...just an observation on my part, I really don't know what their particular situation was.
He used charge $3.00 over spot and went to $6.00 5-6? months ago. He's only been sold out twice (over the last three years) when I stopped by. He's $60 over spot on Maples.
So for me, it works into what I desire. Reasonable premiums for his time & handling, walk in & pick out what I want with very little waiting...cash & carry.
Its the way I prefer to do business...eyeball to eyeball and a handshake ;-)
Or they had been long sino forest and Bac and had to sell gold to meet all the redemption requests?
Make no mistake about it, we are in the fight of our lives. On one side are criminal banksters, ivy league professors locked in their towers, and old school blue blood families. Their status has been unimpeded for generations. They have lived lavishly through revolutions, made their way through depressions, and felt the wind at their backs for the last 70 odd years. Yet somewhere along the line their plans got muddled, and they lost sight of their goals. They became fixated on consolidating power, and their reality gave way to ideals.
They began their plan to eliminate precious metals from the money supply so to run a ponzi scheme unheard of all over the world. However now they sit with nothing to show for their work. They have their palaces, sure, and yachts too. But they have no more monie than a man named Merehuman. They are as pennyless as drunken soldiers.
Here and now they cling to straws to keep their ponzi alive. They throw all their weight into keeping it in place, even when that means bringing the price of PMs down to where Merehuman can afford. Now we, the common, are able to take back our wealth and regain our soveirnty. Now we can remake the world how we see fit.
Their loss is our gain, but no one person can do it alone. It will take our army. It will take all the fiat we can muster to bring the beast to its knees.
Merehuman, where are you?
After this week, I think he is on a popcorn run.
Well said.
Very good post. I do not own gold, but you are 100% correct in that the elite have lost thier power over the masses. Housing (as you mentioned) is a perfect example of this. Nobody wants a McMansion or luxury apartment anymore. When people dont want them, they will not show up to work every day to do the elites dirty work to pay the note. When the notes aren't being paid the .gov is not getting thier taxes. Which breaks the unwritten deal .gov and the elite have with each other. Every MBA learns something called hygine motivator theory. The motivators used to be things like tickets to sporting events (which are far more barbaric than gold). "Time off" heh, the unemployed have all the time off they can handle. "The big house", "The big cars". etc.
All of those things are easily taxed, and must be maintained, repurchased. move that carrot out a little farther. they moved it too far with the housing HELOC bubble, but gold will shine through. Them screwing with the gold market is NOT the stick we should fear. "Global Warming" aint gonna work on the plebs either. It was too far of a reach into the instinctual synapses to control the air we breathe.
They are going to screw with peoples access to potable water, naturally by creating a trading market first, escalating regulation, then a system of taxation to keep the deal between the elites and the .gov alive.
Got water, bitches?
"...hygine motivator theory..."
Is this why Warner Buffet, the Orifice of Omaha, takes baths even though the bath water is filled with his fecal matter cause his disper is leaking?
Welcome to fight club!
Andrew Jackson
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/andrewjack163762.html
We normally don't talk about fight club.....it's kind of a rule. But today...this IS fight club.
.....bring it. PM's are now oversold.......grab what you can get.
You should probably buy some gold. I can always drill a well. Water's easier to find.
No, you can't drill a well. Have to get permission from the government first.
www.nj.gov/dep/watersupply/well.htm
Coming soon to a state near you.
"Now we, the common, are able to take back our wealth and regain our sovereignty."
+ a million genuinely free men.
Merehubris, don't you mean?
or did you say Merepubis?
you forgot to add that we have lived for centuries and are immortal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErjCcqKzr0k&feature=player_detailpage
it's okay. most people forget that part.
+1000 for remembering Merehuman.
Where is Velobabe, did she cut herself with that sword she was swinging around?
What an idiot! You are here a bunch of stupid idiots. If you look just purely empirically the most important factor in pricing Gold in terms of US Dollar is the rate of money supply for which Fed is directly responsible. With the last announcement of Fed the fall of Gold was inevitable. This is as simple as that. And do not hold your breath: it is not that Bernanke does not want to print more money it is just becoming too controversial politically speaking...
Individual investor has certain advantages vis a vis hedge fund managers:
1. You do not need to be leveraged. Hence no need to deleverage
2. You are not threatened by redemptions. Hence you may wait our various disturbances
3. You can (and should) be diversified. US cash is a part of diversified portfolio.
If you follow these simple principles, the times like now open excellent opportunities to rebalance your portfolio: from buying more Singaporean Dollars to even increasing your stockpiles of physical silver and high dividend stocks.
I have believed Bernanke would do QE 3 since last sring, and I said the first thing he would do to keep his balance sheet balanced is loan gold. I said the price would fall. Lots here did. Tyler did. Others did as well. You are the stupid one for assuming otherwise.
I liked your first post better. I think it is naive to believe that the Rothschilds, Rockefellers and Morgans did not stockpile gold. It is believed that the Rothschilds have the largest private holdings of the yellow metal in the world. It is also difficult to accept that these men did not forsee a loss of confidence in fiat and positioned themselves to profit by a return to a gold backed currency. It is probably part of the plan. The benefit of being "merehuman" is that we are quick and nimble, and let's face it, the big boys really don't care about us. We talk about ounces, they talk about tonnes. If 1 or 2 % of the population sees the reality of what is coming and protects their wealth with PMs it is of no concern to the banking elite. Perhaps it would be better stated to say we could join them in protecting our wealth as we transition to a new economy that will emerge with the destruction of the FRN$. A destruction the banksters created as a known consequence of controlling the politicians in order to protect their cabal.
We will kill the Rotheschildes, wipe their blood from our swords, and take the gold from their palaces, but that is after we destroy their fiat ponzi. One thing at a time.
Remember, live is all illusion.
What matters most is how well you use your illusion.
I do agree that there will be blood in the streets. Can't see it happening any other way.
shhhhh! we don't talk about ____ ____ !
@ Arthor Bearing: I keep some classics of Western literature in the safe, too. 'Razzle' and 'Readers' Wives'.
Lol. You're showing your age. I'd forgotten about those titles for discerning gentlemen.
God yeah. When 'girl next door' was a compliment not an insult. So much whipped cream, so little sex. And so much nicer than modern porn. No aggresson or sick stuff. Just hot babes and maids outfits.
How ironic that pm sells-off because of a demand to actually pay [a higher %] for what you buy! If the pm market was "cash-only," I believe we would have a much clearer idea of exactly what value gold, silver, etc. should be.
All markets have been rendered opaque by leverage.
Actually, I think it would have the opposite effect. But then I'm of the opinion that everyone should learn some basic physics, electrical and electronic engineering, mechanical skills, gardening and farming, car maintenance, etc, etc, etc (channelling Yul Brynner here). So I'm probably wrong. After all, most of the money (if not real wealth) seems to be made by pushing bullshit figures around a bullshit spreadsheet using a bullshit algo, so you don't have stop drinking your bullshit martini long enough to accidentally do some productive work.
Duh.
I hope you are speaking metaphorically, because if you really think "pistols" is sufficient you ain't thinking things through, and all your conclusions become suspect.
Fourth thing: Booze (For trading, of course....)
For the board:
Pistols are great if you are willing to keep your skills current.
Else, a shotgun is the best defense, as it has formidable firepower and is more forgiving when it comes to maintaining accuracy.
And it's helpful if you go into bear territory.
Just looked... Apmex has gone CRAZY with their now even higher premiums! Am glad dealers like www.tulving.com/goldbull.html are still staying honest and keeping the same low premiums.
PS: Also glad www.gainesvillecoins.com is staying honest too. Apmex has gono LOCO asking insane high premiums.
Gainesville, Tulving & Provident get my business. Fuck APMEX! A bunch of conniving thieves.
Any particular reason I've never seen anyone mention FideliTrade on here? They seem pretty reasonable from what I can tell, but I'm no expert.
they might be doing to protect themselves? What if some newbie buyer agrees to buy 500 eagles when silver @34 and a few hours later its at 31? He could walk away and save $1500. Unethical yes but out of every 100 purchasers on APMEX on days like today Id bet it happens.
Perhaps you have never purchased or fully read Apmex terms of use. Apmex protects themselves from such things via taking your credit card information. Gainesville Coin also asks for a credit card while Tulving does not. This is perhaps why Tulving can offer such low premiums while Gainesville is a bit more, yet Apmex's suddely hiked up premiums are, frankly, unjustified (other than incredible profiteering off the backs of their customers). Nothing wrong with that, as profits are fine as stupid people do not know any better, yet we here at ZeroHedge are smart and am mentioning other KNOWN GOOD dealers who DO NOT hike up their margins INSANELY when prices of PMs come down.
C'mon.. someone's gotta' pay for those gold bars that Trump has.
Hold on a sec-
I'm not a customer of AMPEX, personally. I find better deals elsewhere- but there's a flaw in your logic here.
It's an ongoing opinion here that paper prices don't reflect physcial prices, and AMPEX is a physical seller- they have to give a nod to spot price, because that is currently the method for price discovery. But why are you upset that they jack up the premiums when the price is manipulated downwards?
Look at it this way- if you had a safe full of PMs, and were willing to sell them for the right price, would you open the door wide and sell at a loss because the price fell off a cliff for two days?
I don't blame them for charging a premium to mitigate potential losses. I do the same.
Here's how it works in my case, which is a much smaller scale than AMPEX. I am a silver supplier of sorts to the local gun show/militia crowd. Nothing extravagant, just a handful of silver here and there. This evening, I got a call to let me know that one of my contacts had found a spare slug barrel for one of my shotguns for me, and the price was $85. As always in arms transactions, I asked if he wanted FRNs or silver- and pointed out the beating that silver had taken these last two days. I told him that that was temporary, and offered two oz, or paper cash.
Barely a pause, and he said "we'll work something out." Paranoid fella- that's what he always says when he wants shiny money. So, does that make me an INSANELY awful person, because I was willing to trade goods for silver at $42.50/oz today, even though the "market" told me that it had dropped $10/oz in the last two days?
Come on, get the narrative straight- either the paper price is manipulated or legit. I'm leaning towards manipulated, and mark by making the price kind of "sticky" in reference to the previous 90 days. Whether you call it a premium or real price really doesn't matter.
Amen.
I'm predicting that real silver will continue to reference the spot price but will be described as spot + x, where x keeps getting higher.
Exactly. DO NOT us APMEX. Call and email and let them know the reason is too high premiums. When/If they lower pemiums then genuinely give them your business again.
I've been using www.BullionDirect.com for 3 years and I've had no complaints. You can't call them, but they respond on email and perhaps therein lies the rub with some folks who don't like them.
Have used BD in the past, there was a big fiasco with them having major delays in delivery about two years ago WITHOUT informing their customers BEFORE purchase. Even after purchase, it took weeks to find out your order could not be filled for many weeks after that. They did make good........... eventually.
I was a commodities trader. Apmex is hiking premiums because they are paying premiums to keep their lead times lower than the others. This is what happens when supply is tight. You guys don't understand a physical market, because you live in a paper world.
I'd say in a 'market' like this, if you're not hiking premiums, it's because you aren't planning on selling, or you won't be in the selling business for long. Even Tulving manages premiums this way.
Massive physical demand today and big dealers running out of supply.
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2011/9/23_Sp...
@raymond reason
If supply is tight, can you explain why SIFO has been on an upward trend since the first week of August?
Is it possible that you have no idea what you're talking about?
The exchange wrote a bunch of shorts they could never locate. What's new?
"If these failures are just random, .. you know folks who can't find their stock in their desk drawers, you're gonna see these failures scattered randomly throughout the system. In fact, the distribution of FTD's shows that market makers, ... do strategicly fail to deliver, and it's pervasive and the distribution confirms that it's ... due to strategic failure not random error.
So you can't see the bad guys. But you can see their footprints."
Darkside of the Looking Glass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpWzOjB8qtU
APMEX has Always been high
Bullion direct 100oz bars $3,303.27
Might still wait a bit tho,unless you hold 0 silver,then split up your buy.imho
Still way too high gainesvillecoins.com FTW!
Engelhard 100oz bars for $3216 if paid with wire.
Gainesville has the best prices on just about everything compared to any other online store - .99 over spot on buffalo rounds, ~$3.60 over spot on eagles and maples etc.
IDK why I share this info, you nuts will prob blow up my favorite site. I guess I'm feeling generous
Just by way of comparison after markets have closed Bullionvault's spread is $33.59 to $33.84.
So if you have silver with them you could sell at way over the Globex close of $31.09. [No way I would sell any at this point in time - and especially not for a lousy 33.59!!]
Some of you are gonna think 'arbitrage' but that would require huge funding the way they have set things up*. The point I am making is that where there is a real fully-funded market between real people who want to own real silver the price levels are much higher than on a rigged market based on margin.
*If you had a million dollars in fiat you could get them to buy a pallet load on the spot market, have it shipped into their warehouse, and then you could sell it to other account holders who are ready and willing to buy at a price over spot. But who knows how much the price would move whilst you perform that transaction...
Ampex knows this is a temporary game and could get cleaned out if spot prices are pushed to low. I say take the prices lower. With silver, this just brings things that much closer to a default. Who is selling silver bullion at these prices? What silver invester is walking into a dealer today and saying "just let me get rid of this stuff at suppressed spot prices. I need my next heroin fix". Push it lower and keep delivering. I just hope there is final push to clean out all the storage shelves. We are almost there.
This whole thing has just gotten plain ass stupid. Running to T-bills and selling gold and silver. My god. The insanity of things. Makes you wonder what things you can get away with in this world. I guess people get away with murder though.
Thunderchief, your statement:
"This whole thing has just gotten plain ass stupid. Running to T-bills and selling gold and silver. My god. The insanity of things. Makes you wonder what things you can get away with in this world. I guess people get away with murder though."
pretty much sums up why I believe things WILL NOT change. Specifically, the fact that we are even having this discussion show you the lunacy of the system where the sheeple gladly trade their labor and souls for "promises to pay" aka currency, with each other in what is obviously the most corrupt system in the history of mankind. Sometimes I say to myself that there is no way this can go on, that certainly people could not be that stupid, that certainly at some point people would learn their lesson that the system is corrupt beyond repair. Sadly, each time I say this, life just goes on as it always has.
In the end, I think this can all be explained by P.T. Barnum when he said "there's a sucker born every minute". In his time that was probably true, but in modern times the phrase can be rewritten as "there's a sucker born every millisecond" since not only has the population of sheeple grown exponentially but the population as a whole is much less intelligent than they were when real money was used and people largely relied on themselves for survival rather than corrupt and powerful governments whose sole purpose is to keep the sheeple ignorant and compliant.
Like all things this will go on until it doesn't and making the bet on when that will occur is a suckers game that P.T. Barnum would be quite proud of and most likely find it just as profitable as our rulers do.
There were quite a few wooly mammals at the coin shop that had no clue that today was probably not the best day to be selling their scrap.
At least they were at a coin shop, where they might get something relatively sane, price-wise.
I had to go to the local mall a couple of weeks ago (that is the downside to having daughters) and I saw a big "we buy gold" sign on a jeweler there. I could not contain my curiousity, so a few days later when I was in that neighborhood again, I took an uncirculated ASE in there and asked what they'd give me for it. The lady behind the counter offered $22, when the spot price was $39.75.
Quite a racket buying PMs from dupes, if you are a sociopath. Coin dealer offers $2 below spot, consistant as anything.
If you are managing Alot of money, 'running to T-Bill's is really your only option during crunches like this. The market is vast, so billions don't move it. It is highly liquid. You care about return OF cash, not ON cash. AND, if you are an institutional player, you're probably not selling much gold/silver - you're liquidating other assets. And, let's not forget that you're not going to park it in a TBTF account during a panic like this.
Smart money had been buying PMs all along. A drop of $300 to $400 doesn't change a longterm strategy and surely doesn't impact their 'bottom line'. Potential profits are just that, and if you are not trading PMs but accumulating them, this is a non-event
Paper gold was sold off today...big deal. If you were a leveraged paper trader you got what you deserved.
'you're not gonna park it in a TBTF'
You are right! That Siemens story the other day (withdrawing $500 billion or more from a French Bank and parking it with the ECB) made me think about what I would do if I had control in that situation. My board would not let me put part of Siemens' cash into PMs ( a shame 'cos that much cash would buy all the physical silver available on the market several times over!) - so where could I 'run' with my 500 billion??? Spreading it around might spread the risk - but suppose I need to grab and run a second time...?
Great to think of a company with that much cash panicking!
they withdrew 500 million euros! = $685.6 million USD [at the time]
@ $30.93/oz, we Do The Math, we get $685.8 mm/$30.93 per oz [today's kitco close] = 22.2 million ounces
the crimex DJ Comex Gold And Silver Warehouse Stocks-Sep 23 inventory is:
31.0 mm ounces registered
+ 74.7 mm oz eligible
= 105.8 million oz total crimex silver(rounding +0.1)
105.8/22.2 = 4.8X the amount of silver $686.8 million dollars would theoretically "buy" from crimex @ this price in "in crimex inventory". according to the crimex daily "bullshit (?) bullion inventory"
now, we can argue semantics about the meaning of the word "available" or we can just take the lying, theiving, bullion bankstrs' word for it,...or ???...
...mostly ???, but that's the math 'based on' those #'s
with 105.8 million ounces "in the vaults" @ 30.93.ounce, the crimex stash has a hypothetical mark-to-market value of just under $3.3 Billion
gold? 11.4 million ounces total inventory @ $1657.20/ounce = $18.9 Billion to theoretically "buy" all the crimex gold
now, if there were some "warfare" over this bullion, even the degenerate spawn of scurvied bilge rats can see the pi-ratical answer to what tf is the winning strategy: buy silver and take delivery?
no shit, sherlock! a 5,000 oz contract = $154,650; there are 105.8mm oz/5000 oz per contract = 21,160 contracts in the crimex silver vaults X $154,650 per contract = $3.3 Billion worth of silver. check
$500 Bil would buy 152 crimex total silver inventories. to go
price discovery
Everybody's hedging for the weekend...
http://youtu.be/cues2i1fv58