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Gold Liquidations Open Thread
Update: Yep - it was a leak of a margin hike as just confirmed. Which may very well mean nobody actually had to liquidate, just the herd thundered, as it always does, in the wrong diraction. Expect gold to actually rise on this news.
Everyone knew they were coming... Just not when. Now that the gold liquidation frenzy has struck we still don't know much if anything: who was it, why, and where did the money go? Some rumors have it as a bank in Central, Eastern Europe unwinding massive PM positions, which if true is paradoxically bullish for gold and silver as reported previously, as it means the already tight liquidity situation in Europe is about to come to a head, possibly as soon as this weekend. Others speculate it was a plain vanilla satisfaction of collateral requirements by a big funds who may or may not be liquidating and who have sizable gold positions. Or, the simplest explanation, was it simply an expectation (and leak) of a gold margin hike? For all these questions and more, as well as to vent over anything and everything, use the following open thread.
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More Commie claptrap! "dishonest"----- WTF is that?
Would you invest your money in a company that "stays honest and keeps the same LOW premiums"? Well, yeah, you probably would becaus eit's "for the cause".
Fucking Commies.
Jesus, anytime somebody tries to make money, some of you guys will cry foul.
APMEX doesn't have to do anything but make a profit. Like you'd sell at a $2 premium in a sinking market.
Grow, up, wipe the snot from your lip, and stop thinking the world owes you something.
Since the government's position of Power is defined by the continuing life of the Dollar and Gold opposes that run of power (as it opposes all fiat currencies), it is interesting that you would think that the CFTC ** As It Is Being Run Today (Looking the Other Way) ** is anything other than being run "properly" in the government's interest.
Removing gold eagle coins and silver dollar coins from circulation and replacing them claim checks then with fiat paper/checks was the trail of crimes.
The fiat paper price for silver is now 40% off the May 1st 2011 high so people can now get 40% more physical silver than would otherwise have been able to get - HAPPY DAYS.
Reading James Turk on a regular basis it was clear to me that silver was already flirting with backwardization and given that we are entering the most bullish quarter for physical demand for gold and silver, Q4, and with the Pacific Asian Gold Exchange> , which deals in physical silver contracts, getting ready to open for business and allow solid alternatives to COMEX, the LMBA and LME for gold purchases, this attack reeks of a desperation move by those who want to disuade folks of the idea that gold and silver are hard cold cash and that the dollar is "strong" and "safe."
Yeah, margine hikes have been the norm on gold and silver all through this market but not the primary cause of today's orchestrated attack which co-incided with the G20 pronouncement of support of the banks with zero detail. If attacking gold and propping banks in the stock market today with the ill gotten gains comprises the "support" for banks, then the word DESPERATION is purely an understatement.
Its QE to infinity and beyond or its cascading sovereign debt and associated bank defaults in my opinion. I'm probably over influenced by years of reading GATA and Jim Sinclair but they've been right all along and so I'll stick with that paradigm for now.
Reading James Turk on a regular basis it was clear to me that silver was already flirting with backwardization and given that we are entering the most bullish quarter for physical demand for gold and silver, Q4, and with the Pacific Asian Gold Exchange> , which deals in physical silver contracts, getting ready to open for business and allow solid alternatives to COMEX, the LMBA and LME for gold purchases, this attack reeks of a desperation move by those who want to dissuade folks of the idea that gold and silver are hard cold cash and that the dollar is "strong" and "safe," and has likely pushed both gold and especially silver into deep backwardization, which is highly bullish. I guess the margin hikes were designed to help JP and others out of what were massively underwater short positions in the PM's.
Yeah, margine hikes have been the norm on gold and silver all through this market but not the primary cause of today's orchestrated attack which co-incided with the G20 pronouncement of support of the banks with zero detail. If attacking gold and propping banks in the stock market today with the ill gotten gains comprises the "support" for banks, then the word DESPERATION is purely an understatement.
Its QE to infinity and beyond or its cascading sovereign debt and associated bank defaults in my opinion. I'm probably over influenced by years of reading GATA and Jim Sinclair but they've been right all along and so I'll stick with that paradigm for now.
Well written.
I would just direct you to the FOFOA blog, and urge you to read deeply.
And also, in my opinion, it'll be gold you need to hold when the dollar busts (no central banks hold silver as a reserve, only gold, which will fly to the moon, silver not likely to do so, as really more of an industrial metal).
Get gold, while you still can.
Historically, no. There has always been a ratio between price and supply of the two. The supply is now reversed. Illogical.
There has always been a ratio between the value of Gold and the value of Silver. I think FOFOA etc is right that Gold will experience a huge upshift in value, because at some point global confidence in paper will disappear. That will probably put a strain on the Gold to Silver ratio, but Silver will still benefit from Gold's rise. So maybe if Gold went to $10,000 the GSR might get stretched out to 100 for a while - silver at just $100 - I can live with that. But then silver will catch up, because there will be vast numbers of people left without any gold at all, and for them silver will have a relative value, just like it always has, because it is real, and because it has great uses, and because it is constantly being 'consumed'.
For security and to cover a broader range of possible future outcomes, best to have silver AND gold.
No one who is short owns the security they are short. Someone who is short borrows the security and then sells it. At no point in borrowing something do you own it. A naked short is when someone does not borrow it, they just sell it.
Re. Naked shorts
Excellent discussion, indicating to me that this can not end well for he stock market.
Overstock.com CEO Dr. Patrick Byrne explains illegal naked short selling. FTD's everywhere that will never be covered. Kind of like all the other debt in our fractional reserve world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpWzOjB8qtU
I have stated multiple times my belief that Silver is the "Achilles Heel" of this rotten monetary system! The CB's own the majority of the gold, and little Silver.
Yet never stated so well as you have.
KUDOS !!!
And I have been already fighting this war by spreading this knowledge.
I Fine Sir, AM WITH YOU!
Let the battle begin.
Pretty much spot-on. However, I don't think that one can leverage silver based on its current use/demands in industry. Manufacturing (growth) is going to continue to fall. Further, I'd worry that industry would put the screws to govts to go after holders of silver- "national interest!" Gold has a bit more protection from this angle...
Note: In no way do I discourage buying silver (though I'm not really a buyer [if I had available cash I'd probably look to load up a bit]), as it'll become a good walking currency.
Seer if we go to Mad Max then I agree manufacturing will fall. I agree real growth will fall in any event, but I think a substantial level of manufacturing will continue (mobile phones, DVDs, ipads, missiles, medicines etc) and the uses of silver will keep growing, even in a NWO. We may not get hyperinflation but will certainly continue to get serious inflation and there is no way that silver will not provide us with real security in these uncertain times. Yes, the price of paper silver has taken a massive knock, in terms of paper dollars, but PMs can never go to zero. What about all those people out there with paper assets? They could wake up one Monday morning to find their paper worth precisely zero. They have no security.
They have no 'security' - and the same is true even if they have a piece of paper with the word 'Security' has been printed on it : )
Mr Lennon Hendrix,
Hear, hear, Sir!
HOW can I buy (physical) silver at $30.
I'm all over it!
I keep a 1921 Morgan dollar in my pocket to remind me of what is money. I wonder how different things would be in the world if a Silver Eagle was a dollar of money today.
Webster's New International Dictionary of the English Language, copyright 1924
Money 1. Metal, as gold, silver or copper, coined or stamped, and issued by the recognized authority as a medium of exchange; coin in general.
I will play the contrarian here. The reason Gold is starting to topple is not strictly by the rumor today. The reality is that if things get so bad that only Gold and Silver have a perceived value, they will actually be worth much much less. Here is why. At that point, the only thing that will matter is guns and food. Farm Land, self sustainability and a community will be all that matter. You can't eat gold and silver and if there is nobody giving up their food and guns, you can kiss your perceived millions good bye. The only reason gold has value is because of this threat that the monetary system will collapse. Comically, it s this scenario which will drive gold and silver into the ground and no one will give their food and guns for some metals.
Also, with this reality that power will prevail when their is a monetary collapse, military might will be the key. The U.S. for all its flaws is the mightiest nation in all the earth. For this reason during a collapse, the U.S. dollar will be king. Gold and silver will crash.
Finally, if these pm's get too bad, the Gov will just confiscate them and make it illegal to trade with them. Good luck holding value with that type manipulation!!
Nice try, except of: Your scenario has NO practical relevance to today, but some possible future scenario.... and it is not just off by a few days, but at minimum months, more likely years.... and since when do paper traders think in moths, let alond years?
In short, complete bullshit. You're grasping at straws of what may someday be, and applying to the "now". That's not to say that preparing for such a case isn't a useful consideration - but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the recent price action.
So there is a huge demand for Silver and there is a huge shortage of the actual metal so therefore the price must go down.
Who put's the "fun" in Fundamentals?
Tunga just mental.
Mr. Lennon Hendrix - Great post! A call to arms. I'll try to get some FRN's together and BTFD.
You have to be careful about what you are wishing for...
What you wrote is probably true but why to be ashamed about it ?
Its just the real world ! The world doesnt have changed just because you have internet, facebook and the Ipad !
Do you think that the Chinese bosses are better ?
Without the deterrence of the US military they will have already invaded ( at least ) all South East Asia !
In short, from my view, the world cannot have TWO bosses. China is a problem because as it is, it has the possibility to control at least Asia. That's not acceptable for the Western elite. The globalists are in behalf of the "one government" for the world because they can control mostly of the small countries one way ( carot ) or the other ( stick ).
With China its a different story, so China will be broken down in several provinces ( countries ) in a not so far horizon ( next 3 to 5 years ) through a military intervention ( all the chinese military and their bosses will be destroyed quickly ). Of course, the US will need to have a "good reason" to do it ( look for it ). They cannot wait more than 3 or 5 years because after that the "window of opportunity" will be closed, indeed, the Chinese militaries would have got some weapons of deterrence ( over the horizon radar, long distance weapons...)
Lets see !
This makes no sense. You do not send China military secrets and technologies for decades with the sole intent to destroy them.
The Chinese are intended to be the next USA world police, super power and TPTB intend to throw the USA in the trash.
The elites love China and how it controls its people. They think they can control China.
Frank what happened to that "window of opportunity" you had open for Iran? Bushehr came on line and you have yet to turn into a pumpkin. What's going on?
To have a short position, someone either needs to own the security, or needs to be able to locate it; the latter is when we call it a 'naked short'
That is confusing and I beg to differ. There are two kinds of short selling. Covered and naked. The former involves borrowing a stock with an agreement to pay for it in the future at a lower price thus keeping the difference. The latter is counterfeiting where the perpetrator floods 'the market/clearing house' with proxy certificates of the stock. As the supply rises independent of the original issue, the demand falls (price)
cf The Dark side of the Looking Glass http://tinyurl.com/3u6ufcr
Quite how this translates from a stock counterfeiting exercise to that of futures contracts in precious metals I have no idea. I can't find any evidence for the ability to counterfeit a futures contract. To the best of my knowledge (possibly very limited) I am under the assumption that one has to assume the whole price exposure of the contract. Of course this is no problem if you are a Primary Dealer of the FED and can stack short Open Interest in the COMEX/LMBE futures market for PM when you have fiat to burn.
Technician Frank Barbera talks Gold and Silver selloff and technicals for equities in general: http://www.financialsense.com/financial-sense-newshour
It's a pretty good discussion. He talks the option action in GLD and SLV over the last couple of days to give a sense of the huge amount of Paper Gold and Paper Silver intervention in the markets driving last week's selloff.
Barbera calls for big selloff in equities happening sometime in the next 6 months. Interview starts at 13:00 mark.
Don't forget copper and lead.
Platinum? What are you, a jeweler?
I don't care. I hope this shit keeps going down a bit more personally. I'm one of those weird-ass gold/silver bugs.
Exchanged 50% cash yesterday... and 50% cash today as planned. Of course, wish I would have waited til today to exchange but I can sleep tonight.
Zer0head,
IF you want to pay the Prems, be my guest.With the world econ as it is, GOLD is where you put your $$ on metal now.
If this plays out as expected, you can buy several ounces of Pal for one ounce of Gold.
Well, to be fair you're right, but platinum has too much industrial exposure. When the shit hits the fan and catalytic converters go out of style along with cars and every other luxury that comes with a market economy, platinum probably won't be as good as gold anymore.
Or, the drop in Gold prices is just a move into dollars as the best short term trade; and, the dollars get you quickly in long term treasuries that the FEd is buying
these guys in the pits they interview on cnbc have been saying 1650 for 3 weeks now. Bingo we are just above 1650. Its so rigged its not even funny anymore.....
I think I need ...
Charts had a GAP at $1650ish, USUALLY they get filled....................
Now, the GAP's been filled.
Good times. Your site is awesome.
Well then you're both right.
I told Miss Edith that I wasn't gonna work for her no more since I got out of prison. I prayed every night
for it get better and she said I would need a place to live. I wanted to see Sally and the kids but uncle Ralph
told me sally had a restraining order on me so I guess I will wait and get it straightened out with the lawyers.
At least my '74 impala still runs but it does put out a lot of exhaust smoke. Aunt Yolanda says I should move
to Scranton Pa and work in the coal mines cause they pay good but since grandpa died from the black lung, she
ain't been making much sense and anyhow I have to stay put for 6 months due to my parole.
This seems like the perfect place to drop a bit of weekend enlightenment reading.
Frederic Bastiat - The Law: http://www.fee.org/pdf/books/The_Law.pdf
I approve of this message.
So do I.
That's funny, because between the three of you I don't think there's even one that truly believes in it (the Law).
I am Chumbawamba.
Chumba,
Where the hell have you been??
we were on our honeymoon
I don't believe you. Your name gives you away, he would not be happy with you as a partner. ;-)
giggle
Hello MsCreant. I was wondering the same about you.
Killswitch:
I've been around. I've been in and out, above and below, around and round, like that and more.
I can't say I've achieved enlightenment, but I have finally achieved AN enlightenment.
Here's a quick one for you all:
1. "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government" - Constitution for the United States of America, Article IV, Section 4
2. Republican Form of Government - One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people ... directly ... - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, P. 695
3. Sovereign - A person, body, or state in which independent and supreme authority is vested; a chief ruler with supreme power; a king - Black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, P. 1252
America, we've had the power all along. We were just never taught how to use it.
Until now:
http://1215.org
-Chumblez.
". . truly believes in it (the Law).
I admit I'm not much when it comes to being a "true believer" but I very much agree with Bastiat and keep the book on my shelf at work; I chose the name and avatar because I think property rights are crucial, fundamental to liberty and badly compromised. In fact, under the Patriot Act and the enabling decrees of the Exective branch, there really are no property rights in the US: all is subject to seizure and confiscation, including the person. I don't like socialism or any other statism for exactly the reasons he identifies. In fact, offhand, I can't think of anything in The Law that I disagree with, in principle.
What is the law, other than one person under the thumb of another.
Rules of the game, so we can play together. One set of rules for all. Based on clear premises like: "One mans right to swing his arm ends where another man's nose begins."
"The Law is the organisation of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cuase justice to reign over us all." -- Frederic Bastiat
Sad when the truly Noble seems Quaint.
Bastiat's The Law is more about what the law shouldn't do, than what it should. It is written for precisely those people who have little trust in "the law" as we see have in the U.S. today.
if we had property rights we would not pay property taxes or we would not have to register our cars....etc...
I'm still trying to figure out how the hardcore folks can reconcile "rights" vs. enforcement of laws (those rights) and them not wanting to provide funds for any such enforcement (or proper recording of ownership).
"rights" vs. enforcement of laws (those rights)
Enforcement of rights is done by the judicial branch of government, i.e. the courts.
Enforcement of laws is often done by armed mercenaries employed by the executive branch (aka "law enforcement"), playing judge and jury themselves, in total violation of people's right of due process, and violation of the separation of powers doctrine.
The executive branch has no constitutional right to enforce laws. So every "law enforcement" person employed by the executive branch is violating the Constitution the moment they accept that job and put on that badge.
In the Constitution that job was given to the judicial branch, and is why the judicial branch exists.
not wanting to provide funds for any such enforcement
The Constitution provides two ways to fund government: Direct taxes and excise taxes.
or proper recording of ownership
Proper recording of ownership was done quite well for hundreds of years before government registration and titling laws. Registering and titling property with the government transfers constructive ownership to the government. It's the real reason registration and titling laws were enacted.
Of course you know none of these things nor anything about the Constitution. You're just another dumb stupid sheep parroting the government line.
Originally (and still technically), direct taxes are unconstitutional.
Which rules out income taxes, property taxes, and head taxes.
Unfortunately, after 137 years of trying and several failed attempts, the politicos finally managed to vote in an amendment that gave them unlimited taxing power, and nowadays they argue that when you get paid it's an event, rather than property, so of course they have the right to take your money.
Only if you are subject to the jurisdiction of the Federal government, or admit to being so. The People (i.e. the sovereigns) are, by definition, not subject to anyone, because to be "subject" implies that you are not sovereign. So how did you, Sovereign, end up being subject to paying income taxes? Why, you volunteered when you first filled out a W2 or a 1040. You admitted to being a "taxpayer" when you signed the document, and so the government took your word for it.
What else did you admit when you applied for a government privilege?
I am Chumbawamba.
"I can't think of anything in The Law that I disagree with, in principle."
Exactly.
It is the concept that eveyone knows what the rules are beforehand and will be treated as any other who is brought before it.
Societal status should have no bearing.
Someday, maybe, we can return to it, instead of the pay for better play model the bastards have turned it into...but even still, law is the only profession that this state imposes on the individual, by its own law, a service to be rendered for free if needed.
Actually, I was referring to the other two douchebags who replied to your comment. You're cool.
I am Chumbawamba.
Green.
Hope you are keeping well.
Very well, thank you. I am achieving my dreams. I hope the same on you.
-Chumblez.
Chumba,
Do you have an email where I can send a short story to? The fucked up part is that you are one of the main characters! No fucking kidding. I wrote a reprise of the Epic of Gilgamesh where the main character, Sid, a disturbed carnie is haunted by ravens that have made roost upon his airstream trailer. Ignoring the omen of things to come, Sid is swept away in the omega of all floods. As he struggles to survive, he’s harangued by his alter-ego, a Luchedor named Chumba, who not only consumes his personality, but forces him to torment the reader as parcel of the story.
You've got to tear me a new one on this.
Hook Line and Sphincter
I'm honored and humbled. Send it to <h.l.sphincter@live.com> and I'll check it out. If I like it I'll give you a real e-mail address ;)
-Chumblez.
.
In that case I shall read it.
In that case I'm gonna run for the Senate.
I just bought "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and The Madness of Crowds." I have no idea what it's about but it's a great title huh?
Read up on the Tulip Bubble. Compare to the derivatives bubble.
the part on john law and the mississippi bubble is good too...that was one of jesse livermore's favorite books...bernard baruch as well
It's about the complete lack of ability by most people to recognize relative values. Or even do simple math.
and inabiltiy of pattern recognition
If you have never read that, you shouldn't be investing in anything.
not even NFLX??
Sell NFLX, wait for Groupon IPO!!
One of the best books EVER. EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!! Believe it or not, its a quick read!
My understanding is that the author's analysis of the 'Tulip Mania' doesn't take into account changes in Dutch law that weakened contract enforcement. Put simply, it became advantageous to bid up the prices of tulips because you could back out of the contract if you couldn't find someone to pass them on to.
Also... the effects on the Dutch economy as a whole were not as widespread as Mackay asserts. Yes, tulip prices got truly ridiculous - but not that many people were involved in their trade.
While owning the book is cool, iirc it's Public Domain now, and available free online via the Gutenberg Project. It's a must read.
I've downloaded every Louis L'amour book I can get, too.
Bastiat was a whiny little bitch who was most concerned about keeping that for which he himself had never actually worked.
It was the other Mr. Lebowski, I'm the Dooud.
I bought my silver for a bag of dirty undies anyway.
Fucking amateurs
@ Bastiat - at this time when you are the first to post a comment.. you are supposed to say...
GOLD BITCHEZZZZZZZZZZZZ
SILVER BITCHEZZZZZZZZZZZ
or alternatively.
IF you cant eat bread eat an IPAD
I screwed up, shit, it's Friday, BITCHEZ!
John Paulson??
I sold 1/3 of my stock positions a week ago to lock in some gains. Repurchased today! Hang in there my PM friends? Governments are NOT going to get smarter and do the right things.
There is a worldwide currency crisis coming.
Watch general equities and other real assets (oil, gold, silver) accelerate to the upside as it becomes visible - and as bonds head south.
See the Argentinian Merval Index acceleration during the 2001 / 2002 peso crisis.
http://www.public.asu.edu/~mmelvin/publishedpaper.pdf
are we ever going to see/hear marla again spinning some tantric trance tunes in the future???
No
Suppliers, Kitco, Bullion direct, Gainsville, all having a wild day today. Talk to all except BD, and they stated massive buying. Running out of inventory.
It was me. Here's how it went down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=56QG9C_sodA And here I am apologizing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3F-WM8uK7Y&feature=player_detailpage And I am sorry. i really am.
if people were just more educated as to why to get into PM's like gold and silver to begin with, they wouldn't scatter like roaches when someone turns on a flashlight...
too much investing and for that matter sudo self education in the western world revolves around buying the crib notes and banking off of that to get by... walking in the footsteps of giants.. and asking other perceivable piers what their opinions are and doing what they do...
then everyone calls everyone else stupid and we move onto the next abortion...
thinking... its not just someone that fills your time while your on the shitter anymore!..
Sprott money ran out of Silver today, guess everyone isn't selling!?
http://ericsprott.blogspot.com/
gold silver ratio is now at 53 / 1.. No joke, this is a huge opportunity to back the truck up and buy silver even if it is for a few weeks only to take a quick 20% or more profit. I am going to use all of my dry powder on monday. good luck everyone.
buy the dipzzzz
Done
Me, too. Picked up another 2.5 oz gold Mexican Peso this morning from Gainesville with 3 more already on the way from last week. Planning a drive down to my local coin dealer on my way home later to pick up a kilo or two of Engelhards with a fistful of Benjamins. Preparation, bitchez!!!
Or me
Lying bastard!
I'm buying all I can this weekend!
Anyone waiting for a dip?
THIS IS IT ! ! !
The coin shop was not happy to see me today.
Aww, I wonder why not. :P
I was at work, and don't have any more dry powder until next week anyhow- but I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see that a lot of coin shop owners are "on vacation" this week.
I would've been happy about the drop, if it meant that everything was fixed up nice- but this just a slaughterhouse. Glad I bought physical rather than leveraged paper, or I'd be bleeding right now.
Still long, and holding tight though. Nothing changed for the better, so it's still the best bet going in the longer term- here's to hoping it's cheap next week.
You mean they can't just print an unlimited supply of gold maples?!! Sux to be them.
DAMN IT!
Both my local guys must read zerohedge. They won't sell silver below $38 or gold below $1800.
Guess i'll be scouring the countryside this weekend for a non-zerohedger or, god help me, buying online and waiting forever for delivery.
DAMN IT!
On a day like this, it's best to order online. Provident and Gainesville are pretty quick (1-2 weeks or less). Damn. I can't wait to pick up some Engelhards and stroke them all weekend long! haha
sounds like the PM dealer equivalent of the "irrational sellers" in the housing market.
Ebay has Silver Eagles selling at $40+.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=silver+eagle&_sacat=0&_odkw=silver+e...
How much would they buy it for?
Usually $2 over/under spot.
I didn't ask about sell... I'll bet the bastards would still offer $2 under!
GOLD Sheeple please line up and accept condolences from Zero Hedge! Gold - Still a Big yellow Rock!
And at a new 45-day low! What ever shall we do?
I spit my water out.
Classic.
My wife broke her water.
Well, I'll sit back, drink a beer and worry that I'm only up 300%.
Although that freakin' NASA trash is passing over my house about 2 hours before it's supposed to attack Africa. *checks for latest update* Hey, that's better, the latest update has it hitting 45 minutes later, near Hawaii. Still, I'm within the current margin of error, so I'll have to remain vigilant.
Now, just how does one remain vigilant in this scenario? Well, other than drinking, that is.
while not edible, i'd still rather have gold than an ipad
As somebody said yesterday, if you want "edible" just buy silver.
Hell, eating silver is even GOOD for you (anti-bacterial, anti-viral, etc.)
Gold is stardust, that is what type of rock it is. Gold does not grow like other metals, it only comes from the super nova of a sun. It must be transported here from the heavens. What is here is all that will be here, forever.
Who gives a fuck how it gets here, using your analogy then everything has the same intrinsic value because it all originated from a great big blast a few billion years ago. I see no value in gold other than it's industrial applications as an excellent conductor. I will never understand as excellent a site as this is why it has to foster a circle jerk over that metal along with it's invaluable reporting.
"I will never understand" Never a truer word.......
And gold is also liquid no matter where you go in this world. You can always convert it to any fiat of your choice. And it retains its intrinsic value. What's not to like?
Liquid. Not a better word to use for it. Throw it in a fire, it will be there after the coals cool. This, Running on Empty, is why it is monie: it lasts forever. There is your intrinsic value.
Also never understands:
An uncorruptible currency (Bernanke ain't no alchemist, either),
stocks-to-flow ratio (relative stability compared to most all other things),
how to store wealth over time due to the above.
Consider the possibility that the price of everything will be based upon it again, and how it has been the exchange medium of choice for centuries. You choose paper in which to have faith. Why is that logical?
I don't know if we'll go back to gold standard or not but this is what I think:
Imagine if someone time traveled from the past and visited us here and now. If he sees people taking a stack of paper and exchanging them for gold, it would blow his mind. We're living in trippy times for sure.
In the future, I think/hope that coins and bars will be equivalent to today's $100 bills (or greater) and fiat papers will be denominated in pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters. At least I hope so.
LH opined that "some resources actually GROW over time." OIL for instance.
and Some Do Not. Like Gold.
So it is limited, there won't be any more and it is scarce. As a result when used as Money it completely resists man(woman)'s baser instincts to Blow Him(Her)Self Up! It can be coined, it is shiny and who cares about anything else. It suits to be a construct called Money to facilitate Honest trade.
Could do Commerce with anything else of its like, but (funny as hell) there is Nothing Else Like It.
Case Closed.
It's possible we could find a large asteroid made of gold and bring it back to earth. It would probably be a Chinese spaceship though.
Its not just that gold and silver are the long term historical bi-metal standard for hard cold cash, its that the dollar is backed only by debt and government policy and that debt is not repayable. I like what Elliot Wave expert Pretcher said in a recent article:
"...... Let’s attempt to define what gives the dollar objective value. As we will see in the next section, the dollar is “backed” primarily by government bonds, which are promises to pay dollars. So today, the dollar is a promise backed by a promise to pay an identical promise. What is the nature of each promise? If the Treasury will not give you anything tangible for your dollar, then the dollar is a promise to pay nothing. The Treasury should have no trouble keeping this promise...."
I find it funny that an E-Waver would use the term "objective value," when all valuations are subjective, based on human desire.
And that debt is backed by....tradition.
"objective value" derived from PROMISES to pay.
Lolz.
Promises = Objective value in the world of the Bernank.
I see no value in gold other than it's industrial applications as an excellent conductor.
Actually Gold is not a good conductor. The only reason it's used in electronics is it's resistance to oxidation. Once two pads of Gold contacts are made they will never lose their electrical connection. Silver is the best conductor followed by copper, annealed copper, and then Gold. It's actual value is it's rarity, colour, and resistance to oxidation and it's use as a monetary standard which can't be reproduced or printed in unlimited amounts. It's been a store of value for 5,000 years and will continue to be a store of value especially in today’s world where governments are printing their fiat currencies into oblivion as they all eventually do.
All my interconnects and speaker wires for my stereo are copper wrapped in silver wrapped in teflon. Only silver solder. Check em out here http://verastarr.com/legacy-interconnect-silver-signature-balanced-xlr.php . Had them for years and they keep sounding better. Expensive and well worth it. http://audiogon.com sometimes has cheaper used, and they really don't degrade.
All metals aspire to be gold.
I am Chumbawamba.
Chumba,
I'm chasing you down the thread. Do you have an email where I can send a short story to? The fucked up part is that you are one of the main characters! No fucking kidding. I wrote a reprise of the Epic of Gilgamesh where the main character, Sid, a disturbed carnie is haunted by ravens that have made roost upon his airstream trailer. Ignoring the omen of things to come, Sid is swept away in the omega of all floods. As he struggles to survive, he’s harangued by his alter-ego, a Luchedor named Chumba, who not only consumes his personality, but forces him to torment the reader as parcel of the story.
You've got to tear me a new one on this.
Hook Line and Sphincter
Talk to the guy ffs.
its becoming embarassing
Nothing but 'bots. But in the chance that some real flesh and blood reads these threads...
Paper currency is born in a gold standard, defiles itself against that restraining law, becomes dissipate, destroys itself and all holders.
The discipline imposed by the scarcity of gold upon the money masters makes it enemy one.
The world is failing. The gatekeepers, architects, herdsmen, and plunderers MUST have all in their chess pieces.
All failed economies have had some form of confiscation. Either bank holidays or sudden devaluations.
One day it is just said, "In order to transact in this (THE KING'S) economy, you must render your notes for reassignment of arbitrary value."
It is usually a ratio which wipes out the prior debts and redistributes the virtuously obtained wealth to the players of the ponzi swindle.
Gold hampers that action. So do independent currencies.
They're closing the net.
See you on the other side.
Consider yourself walking dead and enslaved.
Come to understand the true terrorism.
i c u c.
/nice/
Um, gold is not a 'rock'.
Not sure. The guy somewhere before here said it doesn't "grow" like other rocks.
(Fucktard?)
Oh, oh, wait I got it. "It's am not a rock, it am not an Island". Oh, that was John Denver. He drowned drunk in an airplane in Monterey Bay when he forgot to turn the petrol cock on. So he was really fish food. Bet his plane dropped like a rock. Fuck's this got to do with gold?
You're sounding more like zip everyday. ARE WE HAVING FUN YET?
Yea and your a big yellow cock!
Gold is a yellow rock, true, but much better than a colored paper or mangnetic buble in a computer that Ben could print as much of as his heart desires. Try printing the yellow rock for a change.
Zonker,
How do you use the web?,even children know Gold is not a ROCK.
Lordy................
CME piling on with higher margin requirements.
Must be nice to get market moving news in advance of the general public. Thieves. I'm sure the trusty regulators are all over it at least.
Im seeing bullion dealers stock being absolutely devoured by buyers.
If you have dry powder you seriously need to consider buying while there is anything available.
These prices are a gift.
I just went all in. I spent it all on silver too. Silver's pullback is 30% from the high, while gold's is 15%. I'll use all the leverage I can.
It is just too cheap to pass up considering the historic mean, it's industrial use, the state of the economy, the fate of the dollar, the fact that it trades 1:1 with oil, oil's production peak, and when gold gets a bid, silver will make a move with it. It has nothing at it's back.
So on the next dip you can buy with both of someone elses hands...;-)
Im a huge PM bull so dont get me wrong when I say that is unwise. That is a mistake. I think long term it is advantageous to weigh your investments heavily in commodities / physical precious metals / and mining sectors but 100% no.
Personally Im around 75% the rest is in cash. It is still the currency of the land and as such it does have its uses.
For now.
By all in I mean I spent my dry powder. Don't worry, I will be buying more soon. But I am only invested in physical bullion. I see no reason to hold any paper.
Effin Banking Cartel.......wish I had a gf again to cheer me up today.