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Gold Liquidations Open Thread
Update: Yep - it was a leak of a margin hike as just confirmed. Which may very well mean nobody actually had to liquidate, just the herd thundered, as it always does, in the wrong diraction. Expect gold to actually rise on this news.
Everyone knew they were coming... Just not when. Now that the gold liquidation frenzy has struck we still don't know much if anything: who was it, why, and where did the money go? Some rumors have it as a bank in Central, Eastern Europe unwinding massive PM positions, which if true is paradoxically bullish for gold and silver as reported previously, as it means the already tight liquidity situation in Europe is about to come to a head, possibly as soon as this weekend. Others speculate it was a plain vanilla satisfaction of collateral requirements by a big funds who may or may not be liquidating and who have sizable gold positions. Or, the simplest explanation, was it simply an expectation (and leak) of a gold margin hike? For all these questions and more, as well as to vent over anything and everything, use the following open thread.
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I hear gold works pretty well with many prospective gfs. ;)
the banking cartel is your girlfriend. cause they just fucked you.
No I think that's called a rapist.
I just wish Bullion Direct would start including a tube of vaseline with my silver shipments
KY for the Golden Years
escorts
Anybody asked Waddell & Reed?
Gold may have been entirely what the global market take-down was all about. Mission accomplished, a$$holes.
that's my hunch as well. i also think ben shalom didn't usher in another QE (at least partly) because of "high" gold & silver prices. ron paul's line of questioning must've really shaken him.
They have to knock it down occasionally to keep it from reaching escape velocity, blowing up the outside world. As always, nothing moves in a straight line, but instead ratchets back and forth. Over time though, its true direction emerges (like say, the last ten years).
Also, being coordinated, the ratcheting effect gives the banksters a little more breathing room, that they may plunder yet another day.
Interesting point along those lines seeing as how Bernanke was explicit in his description about Gold being utilized as a hedge against "tailrisk" and " very bad outcomes."
It would seem that he may actually be considering those words in a new light under the crushing weight of the current global debt difficulties and his growing awareness of how precarious this whole sham is.
By his own admission , we are experiencing the exact conditions for Gold to rise explosively in fiat currency terms , or steadfastedly neutral in purchasing power terms.
The fact that changes to margin requirements have as big an effect as they do on PMs tells us that the market in PMs is all about speculation and not about fundamentals.
"the market in PAPER PMs is all about speculation and not about fundamentals."
Fixed. HTH.
Viva -- Sager
and what exactly would those "fundamentals" be that allow you value gold at $2,000/ounce (or whatever else you think it is worth)? i'd love to see the equation and inputs you use to arrive at your valuation based on "fundamentals". but i won't see that becasue there isn't one, as there are no fundamentals to gold. it has a negative intrinsic ROI (has holdings costs but pays no dividends/interest), has virtually no industrial use, and is highly impractical as a form of currency. and the most ironic kicker -- it is subject to its own "QE" every single day (see e.g., the gold miners). valuation of gold is more akin to astrology or palm reading than any quantitative financial model. so you are right, the market in PMsis all about speculation and not about fundamentals, because that's all there is to gold -- speculation and no fundamentals.
What is that called again? Oh yeah, MetalGear, right? By Ntrepid?
I guess you have never ever studied the history of gold then? if you had even the most basic of knowledge you would know that gold was for millenia the sole reliable store of wealth, which then evolved into the sole form of money.
It is only 40 years that this planet has existed with fiat currencies, and we have maybe 5 years at most of that time left.
Something like 180,000 above ground tonnes of gold, and approx 2,500 tonnes mined annually, and one day no more will be mined. I wouldn't call that QE.
Everything else in our fiat world is speculative with no fundamentals, gold is the opposite pole, always has been, always will be.
Now, go do some research on gold's history before posting crap again. Thanks.
i do realize that but the key word in your first paragraph is "was". lots of things "were" the best thing going for a long time in human history (see e.g., riding horses, fire-based heat, bows and arrows, etc.). most commodities are valued based on their utility. the only thing gold seems to have going for it is that its shiny and was all the rage when back in the days when the earth was flat. that doesnt sound like much of an investment thesis from where i sit.
So you're saying this time is different? You think that fiat currency failures were purely an effect of what? Ineffectual leadership from the people in charge?
"lots of things 'were' the best thing going for a long time"
Gold was the best thing going throughout history. All periods in history have gold in common. It is not a passing fad. Fiat currencies are shortlived, their collapse is painful, and the memory of that pain is rapidly forgotten when the next "best thing" promises to deliver "this-time-is-different" promises.
"Most commodities are valued based on their utility" All things are valued subjectively. Amazing enough, food/shelter/clothing/preservation of wealth/survival are highly valued during tough times, hence gold's value. As long as men continue to act in irrational ways and buy into the mob mentality and create bubbles, gold will have value.
Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. Read it. The knowledge in it will save you from yourself.
Food is still good. The supply of agriculturally productive land is finite. New technology makes more land suitable and existing land more productive but the number of people per acre of useful land has been going up faster. If society disintegrates, the supply of agriculturally productive land will plummet without irrigation, fertilizers and pesticides. Anyone in control of enough of the remaining to produce a surplus will be able to trade wheat for gold on a pound for pound basis - assuming both sides are militarily stalemated.
NEGATIVE REAL INTEREST RATES
Not all about speculation, but it gives us some very good insight into the magnitude of it, and how much of it is done on margin, in the paper market.
The fact that physical becomes hard to obtain, and that physical dealers and sellers are not parting with it during these downturns, also tells us the market in PMs is getting close to divergence between paper and physical.
A client contacted me today. Went to California Numissmatic Investments (CNI) here is Los Angeles. Said there was a 3 hour line of people waiting to buy physical!!! 3...effin....hours!! All buyers.
APMEX sold out all 2011 SAE stock today and backordered now til Oct 7, earliest. People be stacking.
Went to the Shwe Ze (gold market) here in the Chinatown section of the city today (it's Saturday afternoon in this part of Asia).
No lines. Same usual 1% mark-up over spot, as rent and salaries are less than the US and are not included like they are in the price you pay Stateside.
CNI sucks. They are ripoff artists. Go to Southbay Gold instead. Or the jewelry district in downtown LA. Or any jewelry shop run by Indians in Cerritos. Much better deals than CNI.
CME smack down of silver was amazing timing. The Canadian Silver Cougars were JUST released and I was waiting to pull the trigger. Thank you CME.
That being said, a lot of sites are stating 'experiencing higher htan usual call volumes'
How did they determine that this 3 hour line of people was all buyers?
Greece dumping its 100 tons of gold to stay alive a couple days longer? Nah...
Why not ? Last exit when there is no fresh cash from the troika next week.
The Germans may just take their Gold away from them anyway.
They did that in WWII. One of the reasons Greek's happy to rip off the Germans now.
Fluffybunny
Greece dumping its 100 tons of gold to stay alive a couple days longer? Nah...
Would not have caused anything near this huge........as that 100Tons would have been snatched by a Soverign, in a nono sec(if Greece were allowed to even sell it).
Personally, a Margin Hike should not have been ale to take it down THIS much, with all that is going on.
Something else more nefaroius at work here.
I am buying more PMs. This short-term volatility is just an opportunity to get these undervalued assets at an even better price. Long-term, nothing has changed. One thing is for sure, this is going to be a wild ride.
Told you guys earlier today:
Gold - Take Profits Now! - http://evilspeculator.com/?p=24114
Argo
Argo fuck yourself.
Punchline to an old knock-knock joke, sorry.
I, and others, look forward to confiscating every cent of your wealth in the upcoming wealth transfer.
Good luck to you, sir and thanks for the purchasing power.
Wow - you said that TODAY, huh ???
How fucking prescient. Where the hell were you LAST WEEK ??
QE = Gold Up.
noQE = Gold Down.
Europe hasn't helped. Or MSM. Sometimes one has to go back and revisit the basics, reminder the post on ZH of "the only thing that matters" concering Sean Corrigan from Diaspon Securities charting the correlation of assets to QE?
Nothing to see here. Move along. More QE will come, when is the only question.
You think it will. I think it won't.
tis true spas, tis true
IT ALREADY IS
And it's gone ...
*POOF*
Today I arbitrarily decide that your savings are worth 25% less than yesterday, because I can.
On a totally unrelated note, I keep getting this image of a two-year-old child having a temper tantrum ...
Nope, I just weighed my gold and it weighs the same as last week. Or by "savings" did you mean my checking account?
I believe he meant that the world will trade you about ten percent fewer cans of Spam, gallons of gasoline, Big Macs, or six packs of beer than it would have last week for your gold. What you think it is worth, and what the rest of the world thinks it is worth might not be quite the same. Unless you are one hundred percent self-sufficient, you have no choice but to play by their rules.
Your gold, fiat, Beanie Babies, TBills, home, or shares of AAPL are only "worth" what someone else is willing to give you for them. Sentimental value is yours alone.
The "governments" can issue as much debt as they want. A toy company can make as many beanie babies as they want. AAPL can issue as many shares as they want. Their is an unlimited supply of these goods.
Then there are finite resources. Gold happens to be the most finite of them all. Then consider that it lasts forever, unlike refined gasoline, and its value excels. The fact that it lasts forever means it is the best store of wealth. The fact that it is fungable means it can be easily traded. Considering these two things, and the human need for functionality, means gold is monie. You can say what you want Chindit, but monie will always have value in the real world of business transactions.
You missed the point. This fellow was claiming his stash had the same "value". Value---other than sentimental---is measured by the amount of other goods or services for which something can be exchanged. Value is a concept based on relativity. As of this writing those G&S are priced in fiat. His PMs fell in terms of fiat. If he needed to do so, he could exchange his PMs for fewer G&S as the week before.
I understand your point about finite vs. infinite, but it doesn't apply at this time. Later, who knows? In any event, the only trick we have in front of any of us is matching our own existence with the majority-agreed upon means of exchange during the time we are above ground. Nelson Bunker Hunt thought he would live to see the end of fiat. He was wrong. His $48.50 silver subsequently fell to $3. He died in a world of single digit silver. I don't forget that, so I am hesitant to go "all-in" on anything. Though it seems everyone claims the same thing I will claim here, when I saw myself "all-in" in fiat and RE way back when, I diversified by buying PMs. My silver was bought in '93-94, my gold in '99 and '00. You used to be able to buy it at Asian banks. They had a special window. I never waited in line, and the Au premium was $1 an ounce. The SD boxes I kept were in the same banks, so I went from window to SD box. The years have passed, and I can still use fiat, which while losing purchasing power over the period, hasn't hurt me because compensation levels rose along with G&S prices. It's a wash, all other things being equal, which they are not because compensation rose much faster than costs. Obviously the PMs have done well, but I never allow myself to forget what happened to then post April 1980 until the year 2000. That's the trader in me; I accept the fact that absolutely anything can happen, no matter how "illogical" it might seem.
There is a good deal of inertia amongst the populace. If people are as sheeplish as so many here claim they are, they might well remain happy using fiat no matter what other people say about its value. Certainly the government, unless overthrown in a coup, isn't going to tell them fiat is worthless or that it is no longer useable.
The place in which I often reside has the most fiat of fiats in the world. It only has value within these borders. Outside of here, it literally is just paper in every sense. It's "value", that is, the amount of G&S for which it can be exchanged, has risen faster than not only all other fiat this year, but also faster than gold and silver. Fifty-five million citizens are going about their lives blistfully unaware that their financial stability is based on a piece of paper they know nothing about. That is "faith" and inertia. Sheeple are known to be susceptible to both. Nelson Bunker Hunt forgot that.
T's and PM's sell off - classic safety sold off hard but nothing really bought??? Cash on sidelines waiting for better prices??? Could be an interesting weekend.
JPM made back some $ in silver the last 2 days. They are still sitting on a massive loss...from all the naked shorting since 2008....
Look, even the Mets win a few games a year...
the physical 'commodities' market price in the phyzzz doesn't matter to blythe just as long as the river of silver doesn't stop flowing, although leverage is leverage!
the do-re-mi is in the price volatility leveraged thru the options spreads and i've been busy and missed a week, or two, so let's see what's there to divine...? COT Gold, Silver and US Dollar Index Report - September 23, 2011
so it looks like the gold contract "action" has deflated abt 5% & 2.5% with options totalled in
and silver "action" has deflated .5%; and .4% w/-options total. pretty trendy lingo, huh?
i have no no idea what, if anything, that means. of course
and , with my bong getting cold,...slewie out
ok! the bong is too hot to handle! again
i need viktor frankl, here...maybe check the calendar...DJ Metals Calendar - Futures, Options Dates - Sep 23
and for some reason, my calendar from the bread outlet store shows the 29th as rosh hashana Rosh Hashanah in a Nutshell - Study and the drill on that seems to be a new year's celebration (harvest year over?) for two whole days starting sundown wednesday and ending about the same time, friday
there are some ritual foods and ritual rituals and i really like that they blow the shofar to begin the new year!
practice for the jubilee, BiCheZ!
in norCal, the crush has begun is the wine country and and we're having a nice indian sauna,...i mean summer. but the heat wave is ending tomorrow, as the system breaks down, and things move on...
tomorrow is indian appreciation day at one of the casinos, the tents are up, and nobody knows if they're gonna give summa those great t-shirts again, but the dancing is wonderful and the food and the people. the wiZe women weave archetypal baskets, and their engineering and artistry make atomic reactors look like puke and insanity
northern california was a rain forest, and could be, again
i planted redwoods over 30 years ago and my babies have sure outgrown the van and trucks we hauled the youngsters in with, some of them 10-15 feet tall and bucket-bound to the entent the nursery paid me to dig them out of the ground they were root-devouring and haul them away
like a tree planted by the water...we shall not be moved - YouTube...i haven't heard this, but i wonder what bill monroe might think...
here's the million dollar quartet: carl perkins, jerry lee, johnny cash & elvis from '56: I Shall Not Be Moved- The Million Dollar Quartet-1956-Sun unreleased.wmv - YouTube
and the liner notes of the musical heritage: As Jerry Lee pounded away on the piano, Elvis and girlfriend Evans slipped out at some point. Cash claims in Cash that "no one wanted to follow Jerry Lee, not even Elvis."...holy rollerZ, batman! fight club?
and here are the black guys, appropriately named the johnsons: 118. Johnson Singers- I Shall Not Be Moved - YouTube...where are the cherry sisters when you need them?
i'm upset slewie, i dropped my bong and it broke.
had to glue it together at the base, so i'm ok...
interesting times just now huh?
yeah, 6!
very interesting
Here, root yourselves beside me.
I am that Tree planted by the River,
Which will not be moved.
I, the Rock, I the River, I the Tree
I am yours -- your Passages have been paid.
Lift up your faces, you have a piercing need
For this bright morning dawning for you.
History, despite its wrenching pain,
Cannot be unlived, but if faced
With courage, need not be lived again.
Lift up your eyes upon
This day breaking for you.
Give birth again to the Dream.
-Maya Angelou
How much gold will the EU banks waste in trying to prop up the EU?
how much wood can a woodchuck chuck?
problem is, those woodchucks can't chuck wood
edit: at least in terms of getting things right - but maybe, as central bankers, they're doing their job, screwing things up
Very little to none.
CHF/Gold has remained firm, it probably wasn't the SNB.
I think the G20 is trying to prevent liquidity from a panic into gold. I think this was coordinated with government and bullion bankers both piling on in order to boost JP Morgan's liquidity, profits and bonuses while clobbering gold. Morgan makes money on both bull and bear markets because they are the ones causing them. But they can't fight the long term trend.
If the pm's are going to go higher I'd imagine they will set up a lower intra day key reversal type affair on the charts first on Monady. I'd guess lots of 9 to 5'ers will read the weekend papers and dump into Monday's open. At that point, and hopefully around 26ish on /SI I'll flip long again.
And if it prints up 5% at open? Will you go long then, or wait for another pull back?
As somebody here said recently: I'm buying this dip all the way down and halfway up the other side !!
I'll wait, I can't see the chart playing out a solo pin low on the daily. We may go higher on the open but I'd guess at some point it rolls over and tests volumes as it dips a toe in slightly lower low territory.. if no one shows up to dump it (low volume) at that point then it should settled down and begin it's long term climb based on the fundamentals.
Well, at least gold closed off its lows for the day. Ouch.
This is a re-post (can't say it any better):
There is a worldwide currency crisis coming.
Watch general equities and other real assets (oil, gold, silver) accelerate to the upside as it becomes visible - and as bonds head south.
See the Argentinian Merval Index acceleration during the 2001 / 2002 peso crisis.
http://www.public.asu.edu/~mmelvin/publishedpaper.pdf
Charlie Brown where are you? - "All I got was a rock!" for $1900. Please sir will you buy my Rock back?!! LOL
Charlie Brown where are you? - "All I got was a a few pieces of paper!" for working my ass off all my life. Please sir will you buy me something to eat, I'm old, bitter and got nuttin!! Kinda sad actually.
Apmex sales staff has quadrupled in 2 months.
a bearish statistic....
Lost 30k£ last few days, do I give a fuck, no, Golds been good to me the last year and I will not, i repeat will not, betray her for some other scabby hussey, we are one and always will be.
Is it physical? If so, you've lost nothing!
Lost $250K this week. Back to the levels of late June. There goes that ivory back-scratcher,,,
Leverage: live by the sword, die by the sword.
You got a big set of cahonas. Beerz on me
seriously, I was feeling bad about making more in a couple of months speculating than a productive American could make in several years. Don't have to worry about that now.
Classic rational investing, I see...
I have soooooooooo been waiting and hoping for this short-term crash to happen. I had accumulated some fiat over the past several months, and $1650 was impossible to resist. Now back from 95% physical to 99%... and it feels sooooooooo good. Thanks all you morons who buy stocks and other "assets" on margin, and then need to liquidate gold when you get margin calls. I love you guys!
What's the worry? Most gold is paper gold held by idiots. It'll have no relation to the price of physical when the shit finishes hitting the fan.
Golden Fleecing?
Damn, I gots to get on that memo distribution list.
simple:
http://www.cmegroup.com/tools-information/subscriptions/advisory-subscri...
What to do knowing that the 'game' is rigged? Guns, Ammo, Food and Gold.
Beans, Bullets, and Bullion.
And Booze.
Don't forget the booze, Long-John
Bourbon.
Beans, bullets, bullion, and bourbon.
None of the above.
The sel off is a natural result of panic and a flight to the real safe haven asset- the US dollar. Gold was just another bursting bubble- tech stocks, housing market, gold. It's not over yet. Gold still has a long way to go.
You morons didn't really think it was that easy, did you?
"flight to the real safe haven asset- the US dollar."
Only until that safe haven starts burning hotter too, then liquidity will be off to the next safe harbor. Any one but a moron knows that gold is the one safe harbor that cannot burn.
Yeah, cause no one would expect a drop in gold if there was a 21% margin hike. Must be the strength of the $. Tell you what...you hold on to your $'s, I'll hold on to my physical, and we'll see what's what in about 5 years...
I have no idea what the world will look like in 5 years, but I do know that gold is ridiculously overvalued as seen today. It will keep falling.
Yup, that's what they said when Nixon took us off the gold standard less than 40 years ago. Gold as a storage of wealth...5,000 years.
USD as a storage of wealth, 98 years. This is our 3rd central bank by the way. This one will go the same way as the other 2. Got any Continental Dollars you want to redeem?
You "know" this? LOL.
Gold is far of its real highs. You have no idea what you are talking about.
"Gold still has a long way to go"
Yep - all the way down and halfway up the other side.
Everyone knew they were coming... Just not when.
Really?? I don't recall anyone around here predicting gold liquidations. In fact, I mentioned selling some of my metal holdings towards the end of QE2, but the herd said we wouldn't have another 2008 type event.
I gotta call bullshit on this, ZH.
Your bad memory doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Source or you're full of it, too.
The "source" is the internet - idiot.
well, i read in the wsj how Roche wasn't delivering drugs to greek state hospitals cause they weren't paying; and, i wanted some dragon coins, like a big ole 2oz gold coin...but, they were all gone once i had the money; gold was bouncing between 1780 and 1820; and the libertads were on sale...and i could still get a kilo silver dragron...so, i pulled the trigger and gots 2 1oz gold libertads and 1 kilo silver dragon; after today i lost $500 total on that purchase; but, hey, i'm still up 20k on the year...and i ain't selling; i'm just bummed i rushed it...and i ain't gots money to buy now.
Maybe Johnny 5 just doesn't like Silver?
Plus, in GBP, CHF and many other currencies, gold hasn't budged much in a month. No precipitous fall, just normal oscillation. We don't all use dollars!
This should set a alarm bell going off in your mind.
The USA just tried to whack the gold price, again. What you are seeing is other countries aren't buying it.
Perspective is a interesting thing.
Well, actually they probably are buying it. But then taking possession. :-)
Haha. I meant buying the whack. As in lower valuation of gold.
They is! But the paper butt-wiping stuff outnumbers the physical, hence it drives the 'price' down. Banks, individuals and funds are buying physical as fast as they can, and ditching the paper simultaneoulsy. What is it, 10 paper to 1 physical? **** paper, it's meaningless. In your hand, or it counts for poo.
USA government has more gold than anyone. Why would they want gold price to go down? It would make more sense if they manipulated it higher, sold everything and then crashed it.
Course if they had sense, they would be issuing 100 year bonds now.
All I wanna know is whether to back up the truck for more silver now, or wait and maybe back up two trucks later on a bigger dip in the next week(s)/month(s).
Will PMs get clocked further as stock investors get their @$$e$ carved off and Fed to them and are forced to liquidate everything to get FeRNs?
Actually, i suggest you do both: One truck now and one truck later (if yet ANOTHER dip).
Good thing I went long on TRUCKS recently. Wheelbarrows too.
During 2008 gold had three major corrections - 18% during 3/17 - 5/1; 25% during 7/15 - 9/11; 27% during 10/10 - 10/24. I was not correlated with SPX (up 13%, up 4% and down 14%), and somewhat correlated with DXY (up 3%, up 113%, up 8%). Lehman filed on 9/15. All three times gold rallied back close to previous highs, and fully rebounded by February 2009.
So far, we have 14% correction. DXY is up 6%. Where it can go? Using the same pattern, it might be another 10% or so within several weeks to a month. If its panic liquidation/margin calls, it might be over sooner.
Paper nonsense. I'll trade you 011010 for 110101.
DEFLATION. Golds kryptonite. No more money printing coming anytime soon either. Sorry folks. Called the plunge yesterday at $1750 oz. I guess I must have known about the margin hike and front ran all of you or maybe just maybe used my brain to see that only idiots are going to hold gold in a strong deflationary enviroment.
If US economy collapses, tax revenue to the government will collapse. Deflation would bankrupt the western governments -- would you want to own their paper or fiat currency in that scenario? Or would you like to have an asset outsidte the banking system?
Do you really think that after all that has happened in the last decade the policy makers are just going to give up and let the system collapse?
Good luck with your paper man. BTW, nobody here gives a fuck about you calling the plunge. Do you have some shitty blog to pimp too?
You got it Mike.
The Bernank will print to infinity to avoid a deflationary collapse. That is the bottom line...
My anecdotal story:
When I bought silver this morning, my coin dealer said his shop was essentially cleaned out yesterday. All that was left was the 90% junk that I was able to purchase.
Then there is this:
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2011/9/23_Sprott_Money_Temporarily_Runs_Out_of_Physical_Silver.html
The last major deflationary pulse in 2008 led to a blowout in the demand for physical. Delivery was delayed, premiums skyrocketed and dealers at times couldn't get product. How is this any different?
Why don't you open a shop? You can sell everything for 10% more than it costs every day. That's about 5,000% a year return on capital which you can borrow at 10% or less. Far more than gold could reasonably be expected to increase in a year.
WTF are you talking about? If you can't buy the physical at the paper price, how are you going to sell it at 10% more than it 'costs'?
You're not really batman, are you? I can't see Bruce Wayne making a mistake like that.
Ironically he is Space Ghost, which proves your point.
I'm sure that a government that has almost 15 trillion in debt on the books is going to stand for any deflaltion whatsoever... cause deflation is so good for debt. Now inflation, well that's another story...
I am pursuaded by the argument that gold wins in inflation or deflation. In inflation, gold trumps the money printing. In deflation, governments topple and everything goes to hell in a hand basket. The PMs don't recognize governments, although governments can recognize PMs and try to snatch them away.
My theory on inflation vice deflation and life in the next five years:
Those things that are purchased on credit - houses, cars, CRE, etc - will get pasted.
Those things purchased with cash - gasoline, food, medical care - will go through the roof.
Read an interesting thought this AM. Since the government has all of these houses it can't sell and whcih decay exponentially as the crack gangs move in, and since the government has all of these Social Security obligations it can't meet - it should swap the empty Social Security promise for the empty house.
You stupid asshole.
You can't even DEFINE deflation.
GiddyUpGo the fuck outta here.
DEFLATION. Golds kryptonite. No more money printing coming anytime soon either.
Denninger is that you??? You dont have a fucking clue what's coming next. Here's a clue, it drops some more then a hard bounce. When everyone starts realizing what a total piece of shit the dollar is then it takes off. After the asian exchange opens it goes higher. After the US realizes it cant pay debts in deflation it fucking PRINTS ... and PM's go higher.
Douchinger...I was thinking the same thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCwWfSYBwOQ&feature=player_embedded
Deflation dollar whores crack me up. You think this is the same system that has been in place for the last hundred years. Look around you. All the Central Banks have been putting all of their savings in gold, not USTs. S Korea, India, China, Russia- none of them are going for the green, they are going for the gold.
And while you are at it, and so smart, please use the law of supply/demand to think about what happens in price to a good whose supply is decreasing, when the goods demand stays high. And then please, do us all a favor, sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride.
If China put it's money into gold instead of dollars, it would eventually make their currency more valuable relative to the dollar which would reduce exports which would increase unemployment which could lead to loss of power for present Chinese ruling class. That is why China has two trillion dollars of US government debt and will continue to buy it at least for a couple more years.
India has a trade deficit. If they accumulate much gold, they will end up trading it for oil eventually.
Russia is a mafia state. They need gold to prevent their bank accounts from being confiscated later. But they produce plenty domestically to meet this purpose.
Not too long ago, Koreans were donating their gold to the government to pay off their debts. If the US left Korea, they would become puppet of China in a few months who would take all their gold.
China has been decreasing their UST holdings for five years now. Just because they have the same nominal terms does not mean it is the same. Inflation eats away at the value of almost everything, remember.
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America's federal deficit up and China owns lots of it
The US Federal Deficit is always in the news - and when Chinese premier Hu Jintao arrives to a lavish reception at the White House, he comes as bigger lender to the developing world than the World Bank.
And last year, Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve, said the US is pursuing a policy of weakening its currency.
In the recent past, China has defended its investment in US Treasury bonds. Meanwhile, there is concern that its position as the biggest investor in US debt may become political as well as economic.
Treasury bonds are how the US - and all governments for that matter - borrow money: they issue government securities, which other countries and institutions buy. So, the US national debt is owned predominantly by Asian economies. The US Treasury releases the figures on this - here they are in a more useable form.
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Owners of US Treasury bonds, Oct 2010, $bn http://www-958.ibm.com/me/files/thumbnails/cda68770-2302-11e0-8bee-00025...) no-repeat scroll center center #ffffff; text-align: left;">
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IBM legal | view data | 10 comments
Mapped by Many Eyes. Click here for fullscreen version
Previously, China has expressed concern over the security of its vast United States treasury holdings and premier Wen Jiabao has urged Washington to safeguard their value.
Take a look, download the spreadsheet and let us know what you can do with the data.
Data summary MAJOR FOREIGN HOLDERS OF TREASURY SECURITIES$bn at end of period. Click heading to sort table. Download this data
Country Oct 2010. Oct 2009. Oct 2008. % change, Oct 2008-Oct 2010SOURCE: US Treasury
In 2005 it was 469 so it's doubled from 2005 to 2010. Inflation hasn't except maybe for college and medical. China GNP probably up 50% during that time but still an increase relative to China GDP.
China, Mainland 906.8 938.3 684.1 32.6- Next
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US federal deficit: how much does China own of America's debt?The US Federal Deficit is an indicator of America's reliance on China. Find out which countries are propping up the US economy
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America's federal deficit up and China owns lots of it
The US Federal Deficit is always in the news - and when Chinese premier Hu Jintao arrives to a lavish reception at the White House, he comes as bigger lender to the developing world than the World Bank.
And last year, Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve, said the US is pursuing a policy of weakening its currency.
In the recent past, China has defended its investment in US Treasury bonds. Meanwhile, there is concern that its position as the biggest investor in US debt may become political as well as economic.
Treasury bonds are how the US - and all governments for that matter - borrow money: they issue government securities, which other countries and institutions buy. So, the US national debt is owned predominantly by Asian economies. The US Treasury releases the figures on this - here they are in a more useable form.
http://www-958.ibm.com/me/images/title-gradient.gif) repeat-y scroll 0% 0% #ffffff;">
Owners of US Treasury bonds, Oct 2010, $bn http://www-958.ibm.com/me/files/thumbnails/cda68770-2302-11e0-8bee-00025...) no-repeat scroll center center #ffffff; text-align: left;">
http://www-958.ibm.com/me/images/white-screen.png) repeat scroll 0% 0% transparent; height: 350px;"> Visualization for Bubble Chart http://www-958.ibm.com/me/images/branding-top.gif) no-repeat scroll 0% 0% transparent;">
IBM legal | view data | 10 comments
Mapped by Many Eyes. Click here for fullscreen version
Previously, China has expressed concern over the security of its vast United States treasury holdings and premier Wen Jiabao has urged Washington to safeguard their value.
Take a look, download the spreadsheet and let us know what you can do with the data.
Data summary MAJOR FOREIGN HOLDERS OF TREASURY SECURITIES$bn at end of period. Click heading to sort table. Download this data
Country Oct 2010. Oct 2009. Oct 2008. % change, Oct 2008-Oct 2010SOURCE: US Treasury
In 2005 it was 469 so it's doubled from 2005 to 2010. Inflation hasn't except maybe for college and medical. China GNP probably up 50% during that time but still an increase relative to China GDP.
China, Mainland 906.8 938.3 684.1 32.6In 2008 they had one trillion. Now they have one trillion. Inflation has increased; look at gold, silver, and oil. They have the same net nominal position, and in real terms it has decreased, not substantially, but it has.
Everyone has a trillion. The House of Saud, Russia, Brasil, Japan, they all have one trillion. In fact Japan owns more USTs than China. And the Fed owns more USTs than Japan. The Fed is the largest owner of US debt, not China.
The only entity that has increased their holdings significantly is Britain. Maybe China is the buyer through them, I don't know, but on the official sheet, in real terms, China has not increased their holdings of USTs since right before the Fall of '08.
You have this backwards. Deflation, i.e. a reduction in cash + credit, is gold's friend. Why? Simple. In deflation, central banks print currency to stave off the effects of shrinking velocity and credit. It usually fails. Nonetheless, each time currency is diluted at a higher rate than gold is mined and added to the overall gold supply, gold increases in value. Look through history; in deflations gold did well. In inflation times gold fell because markets knew central banks would close the money spigots. And in deflation times when real interest rates are at or below zero, holding gold is less costly. Inflation eventually brings higher interest rates and lower gold prices
Bernanke just said he was going to monetize $400 large over the rest of the year. Get with the program, Hoss.
The sell off smells panicky to me. Same thing happened in 08, big selloff with everything else, and then the rise in gold quickly resumed. Comon...does anyone really think that with China making a very large strategic bet to move a large portion of its assets into gold that this rise will not continue? I'm not a buyer yet but as soon as it stabilizes for a couple to days I'm back in.
Ironmaan,
I'm not a buyer yet but as soon as it stabilizes for a couple to days I'm back in.
Well,if it is true to form, Sun at 5:00 CST, when Asia opens( to steal even more at a HUGE discount,just like LAST night),by Mon opening bell, you may have to be online, logged in, and waiting for your Dealer to open the gate..................
Or you likely will get your ass ran over.
At this point it is pertinent for anyone who wants bullion to get it today.
BUYING OPPORTUNITY
And it could be the best one for a long time.
had to fill gaps around 1650...main trend still unbroken...i don't know who's selling but i know who's buying...this guy
You are lucky my man. No dry powder in my arsenal. Just dropped the last of my FRN's on 20 acres of raw land so I gots nothin' for this stellar buying opportunity...
I believe that the gap was filled, but cannot confirm, anyone out there?
I offer tunes for the weekend on this open thread :D
Above & Beyond - Group Therapy (an album playlist): http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL34AA9B4C890D511D
Bume! (a short and hard playlist): http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5A73688E9F738F25
Endless Summer (a playlist that wamps your ass off): http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL96C1432070AB1B50
STEAK!
EVERYBODY GEET DOWN, THAT MONKEY HAS A GUN!!!!!!
:D
Got a new midi controller this week. Really improves the composition.
I'll join you with this one, have a nice weekend all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um6fPUTpXG8
Son of a bitch,,,Good to see ya STEAK....Thanx you mainiac,,,my kind of MUSAK
Steak! Been missing the playlists the past few Fridays. Bring back the weekly dose!
Ah, now they're not buying. One day the are next day they're not. Today is one of those ney days it seems.
I guess this means they won't buy any Russian bonds since they defaulted recently and are a gangster state with no rule of law.
So, this is why JPM opened a new vault.
We may see silver prices start skyorocketing soon, I guess.
I was a little surprised by how unrattled I was by the sharp drops.
I just went in and bought more pysical gold and silver.
Haha. Me, too, man. Me, too.
When I woke up this morning and saw PM prices plunging, I immediately purchased some gold online. I would've purchased some silver, too, but I figured I could afford to wait a day. And silver's gone down another $2 since this morning, so I made the right call, I guess. Doesn't matter. I've been waiting for this. Back in April or May when they took down silver, I was pissed and intimidated. Now? I'm grateful!