This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Gold Liquidations Open Thread
Update: Yep - it was a leak of a margin hike as just confirmed. Which may very well mean nobody actually had to liquidate, just the herd thundered, as it always does, in the wrong diraction. Expect gold to actually rise on this news.
Everyone knew they were coming... Just not when. Now that the gold liquidation frenzy has struck we still don't know much if anything: who was it, why, and where did the money go? Some rumors have it as a bank in Central, Eastern Europe unwinding massive PM positions, which if true is paradoxically bullish for gold and silver as reported previously, as it means the already tight liquidity situation in Europe is about to come to a head, possibly as soon as this weekend. Others speculate it was a plain vanilla satisfaction of collateral requirements by a big funds who may or may not be liquidating and who have sizable gold positions. Or, the simplest explanation, was it simply an expectation (and leak) of a gold margin hike? For all these questions and more, as well as to vent over anything and everything, use the following open thread.
»
- 49993 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Considering Fort knox hasnt been inventoried in many years...who the fuck knows if it isnt our own friggin govt sellin...Obooba might be in there with Nancy Reid and Harry Pelosi sellin hand over fist to pay for the new union jobs bill...short the paper and buy the physical...
I don't know about gold but silver, man...it's all about metals leasing for me. Because once they lease out their silver, it's consumed and gone forever.
The Fed loans the 14k tonnes it has from the Treasurie as part of its business. Gold is its only performing asset.
Bitchezz.. So anyway, I bought 6 1oz American Eagle Gold at $165o today
bought w/both hands by the yard today
Neither a borrower nor a lender bee - a goldbug
or maybe just as simple as a bunch of crooks!
Leak is such a little word and it can have so many meanings. You know when to use quotation marks. You are the Tylers, sirs.
This wasn't the herd, this wasn't the banks (although that $2.1Bln silver short miracle just happened) - nope none of them - this was the FED. All those other fuckers have stood aside and we are now toe to toe with the FED. GOOD - bring it on you fuckers 'cause you're going down next.
Ahhh Company Yee Haw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deflation folks. Credit/debit being destroyed. Asia won't step in to support this falling knife.
Gold going lower next week. Holding my GLD puts through the weekend.
Also, DZZ is the worst short ETF ever, I should have been up much more on gold's smackdown today. I repeat, DZZ sucks.
Deflation and a bad economy are two totally different things. And there is endless free Fed credit for global banks out there.
Yo! Deflation very good for lenders... stay long all them 20+ year 5.5% munis you bought 5 years ago. Or didja?
Asia will buy USTs then? Yeah right; they will leave that to Bernanke.
just accept that there will be no $2000 gold, forget about it and no $100 silver, forget about it too
Well - at least not for long.
Probably just stop to visit those numbers while passing through - on the way to $5000 and $250, respectively.
I remember the same being said of $1,000 Gold and $10 Silver.
The value of the dollar is zero. So how much is precious metal? Hard to say. It could be priceless in the face of a global bank run. And considering the web of debt, any bank run will be global. Greece ails, France fails. France fails, Europe fails. Europe fails, China fails. China fails, the US fails. The US fails, and Bernanke is holding a fuck tonne of worthless paper. Bernanke is the lender of last resort, what will he do? Tick, tock, tick, tock.....
"Central, Eastern Europe banks ...collateral requirements by big funds... finance minister Schaeuble said... leaked gold margin hike..."
Talk about "(BTFD) of the rumor of the rumor" of the rumor of the rumor of the rumor...
Why did it happen? It happened because they could not allow the sheeple to herd towards gold. Just like the gold drop before the Swiss manipulation announcement to the euro. They had to do it to protect the global financial system. Or chaos would occur :). Safety in the dollar? Safety in the euro? The yen? Chf? Publease.
They had to do it.
Couple of questions I have as a newbie.. I have owned a small amount of PM's for 10 years and started accumulating heavy a couple of years ago based on inflationary concerns and fiat collapse and basically because I've seen my small business just keep getting hammered and my thought was self preservation. instead of investing $$ into new equipment etc, I've been building up on the physical.
Silver is highly used as an industrial metal, so if GDP of the world goes to shit, won't the shiny silver take a beatting?
The other thought for me is the dollar tanks due to debt and printing and is an inflationary event and silver rockets forward.
For gold, it seems that it all depends on if the US dollar can maintain strength.
Last couple of days has made me question if any thing can survive the forthcoming bloodbath..
Action in gold is like in 2008. Gold sold off sharply and then bounced hard and has been rallying ever since.
The question I continue to ask myself is this: "will the Fed and other central banks allow the EU and consequently the US banking system to go off a cliff before they start QE 3, 4, ..., N?")
If the answer is "yes", then sell everything, buy farm land, bullets, solar energy system, generator, 3 year supply of long lasting foods and the like and hunker down.
If the answer is "no" take these massive orchestrated raids as an opportunity to buy physical gold and silver, burry them for the next 20 years and go about your business.
Thats my thinking on it.
I think the answer is yes and no.. Do both. Hoarding the PM's, food, water and land..
I think the answer is yes and no.. Do both. Hoarding the PM's, food, water and land..
Hoard land?
I should start taking the divots home?
One of the better newsletter guys said today that people were selling some of their winners to pay for yestrday's margine calls. He said the customer may have taken a hit on their regular stocks. He got a margin call and the wife may kill him. So he sold off some of his winners which were probably precious metals stocks where he had some gains. People will often sell some of their winners before they sell their dog shit like Bank America or Sino Forest or China Scam Stock Inc.
There's an old expression, with stocks you want to choose what you sell, in a selloff you sell what you CAN sell, and right now Gold can be sold. Both Gold and Silver are being sold to 1. cover margin calls, 2. to raise cash to buy stocks (hedge funds) 3. being sold to lock in gains (anything bought below $1700) This is a temporary issue, than buyers come back in who were smart not to buy above $1800, bottom line, once we get 2!! up days in a row you can feel pretty comfortable major sellers are done, I think $1625-$1650 will hold (based on charts) and will go back to $1775-$1800 but more orderly than before. Your premis for buying was excellent foresight and correct, DO NOT SELL as your analysis is coming to fruition! I have done that before as well, I buy something based on my expectations, as soon as my expectation starts to play out and the investment BEGINS to go up, I sell and miss the majority of the move that I bought in to catch. I think you should but some Platinum now as well, it has lagged in price and actually has more industrial demands than Gold and has almost always been higher in price than gold, most novice investors know gold/silver but the more insightful trade right now is Platinum, doesn't move as fast but will stay up higher and longer, I call it the Viagra of metals LOL Good luck
+1
This is what happened today. People, including institutions, were selling off good stuff to pay margin calls for the shit that went down on Wed-Thursday.
Viagra? Is this what Buffet pops in the bath tub to get his "good" ideas like buying Bank of Mex-America? AKa BAC shit stock?
No, if the world goes to shit, you will always be able to trade in gold or silver. Obviously silver is more abundant than gold, but both will work.
You are on the right course. Don't let financial markets frighten you.
Throughout all of human history, having gold or silver means you will not go hungry. That's a pretty good track record. Fiat money? Not so much...
I was going to write about supply/demand, the dollar, and other metrics, but intead I will share my favorite quote.
-Black Elk
Yea....this margin hike was leaked on the 5th of September when this sell off started.
mmmhmmm
I've seen nothing but comments of people "backing the truck up" since 1900. Seriously people are saying "I bought shit loads of gold 2 weeks ago and I'm happy" That's some sick delusional shit.
Somehow I doubt your witnessing of anything happening since 1900, but stipulate it - compare the purchasing power of the US Dollar with that of gold, over the past 100 years, and then reconsider who is sick and delusional.
So are you saying that gold is correlated with US GVT debt 1:1?....seeing as debt = money in our financial system?
Yes, the gold price correlates nicely with the debt ceiling:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/imminent-25-trillion-debt-ceiling-hike-wil...
Ad hom much?
I'm pointing out delusional and maniacal frames of mind. Think I'm making it up for the purpose of ad hominem attacks? Look around the gold threads and you'll see the insanity.
Were you saying on the other page that gold could go to 40k?
Gold could go to anywhere in dollar terms considering the dollar is not a real way to measure wealth. The debt is issued, and paid for in dollars. The Fed isues the dollars and the only performing asset on their balance sheet is gold. 14k tonnes of gold is what backs the dollar, by proxiw. So when, when mind you, not if, when the dollar fails, the Fed will use the gold to prop it up, and it is failing, and the Fed is propping it up. This has been the status qou since the Fed's inception, hence inflation. But now the world has turned its back on fiat. Now the world wil run to real value, and real mone, and that is gold.
Bob-
I don't usually care for your posts, but in this case, you're right in one thing. There are a few who are overly maniacal about this. The key word here is a few- the vast majority of people generally are net sellers of gold, trading in their old jewelry and that coin their grandpa gave them when they were 10 for 40% of spot to anyone who is willing to set up a tent and bring a box of currency with them.
The mania and bubble mentalities have been going strong my whole life- first the tech bubble, where people spent everything they had to buy shares of stupid things like pets.com, then smaller mini-bubbles with collectables like "beanie babies," the massive and devestating real-estate bubble, and now a QE to infinity bubble.
What you're focusing on is the gold portion of the QE to infinity bubble, and to be fair, it's a relatively loud contingent. That side is betting on a hyper-inflationary apocalypse, but missing the part where the nominal highs won't last long, and won't be worth much in real terms. These folks will sell gold at the peak, whereever that may be, and then gloat that they are million/billion/trillionaires, right before the money they "made" is rendered completely useless, and replaced by a new currency. In this context, gold isn't much better than buying stocks right now, except that the timing issue is potentially less dangerous- gold isn't a company that can fail, and will retain some worth no matter what. These folks are focused on price because I don't think they really believe that the US dollar can or will fail, and expect to exchange their gold for it someday. There are plenty of counterparts who love to point out the value of their stock portfolios- where it may go down 5% one day, but they're becoming accustomed to it jumping back up the next day on vapor and rumors.
The other side of the gold story are the folks who are buying now as a bulwark against currency failure. While at first blush, this may seem like the same thing, it really isn't. The buyers here understand that the system is failing, and are collecting assets, even at a loss, to preserve something (as opposed to losing everything later.) These folks don't expect to turn gold in for US dollars- ever. There is a lot of history that shows that this happens every forty years or so, and it's getting to be that time again.
In either case, gold could go to just about anything- but it doesn't matter. What matters is how many barrels of oil, cattle, tons of wheat, bolts of cotton, etc. you can buy with it. Gold is plodding money for hard times- while the numbers look extreme, they don't mean much when everything else goes up as well. That people are getting excited for hard times is a little troubling, to be sure, but it doesn't make the underlying strategy a bad one.
Some people do the wrong thing for the right reasons, some people do the wrong thing for the wrong reasons, some people do the right thing for the wrong reasons, and some people do the right thing for the right reasons. History will sort it out, as it usually does.
But for investment purposes, I'm staying out of the QE-to-infinity bubble, and parking my money in stodgy old non-interest bearing gold and silver. It won't make me rich in real terms, but it may come in handy when I need to feed the kids, and no one is accepting FRNs anymore.
Why are all these people backing up the truck today when they could have done it last year and got much more?
I don't know, fuckwit, could it be they've got another year's worth of earnings to spend? Could that be it?
Why keep worthless fiat currency for a year when you can put it in gold every week? Still would get gold at a cheaper average price then waiting until today.
Not everyone is as smart as you. So just calm down.
That's what I do with silver, and it's working out fine for me.
Operation Twist is not real stimulus in my opinion. Without easing lending standards or a pickup in the job market, there will be no recovery in housing any time soon despite operation twisting in the wind, which is not injecting any new liquidity because all of its purchases of longer dated maturities are combined with equal sales of shorter termed treasuries. The Chinese may also decide to exit there longer dated maturities and buy shorter dated one's in operation reverse twist.
That silver, the most efficient price lever on gold due to its small market size and easy futures manipulation by major derivatives players, was singled out for the largest attack indicates to me the level of desperation behind the scenes as certain "monetary authorities" and their associates in the US and London Exchanges created a cascading fund liquidation through manipulative operations well detailed by GATA and this indicates that twist isn't flying and is why the G20 made their announcement last night and the stock market was levitated higher by the ESF and company even as futures activity indicated it wants to drop.
It may take the funds a day or two to figure it out but gold was deeply oversold and we are entering the historically most bullish quarter for gold and silver, Q4 and with silver already flirting with backwardization, it certainly is now in full backwardization as I doubt you can find much physical silver in quantity available at $31. So, all this is further indication to me of Central Bank Desperation and Panic operations.
The Chinese may also be taking advantage of operation twists impact on 30 years treasuries as an opportunity to sell treasuries on strength and place physical purchase orders on gold and silver on weakness, which is a great way for them to rotate into stronger long term wealth preservation, which looking at the long term charts indicates is definitely what gold and silver are despite today's manipulations.
With the Pan Asian Gold Exchange, which deals in physical metals set to open shortly, this may be seen as the central planners last hurrah to try to pain the charts and make the dollar look so strong.
Do I trust that the US sovereign debt is repayable at current currency valuation levels of the dollar. No. Do I believe that without substantial long term Quantitative Easing that the United States can meet its debt obligations? No.
Do I like the fact that we are now almost entirely dependent on debt monetization to save the global financial system. Absolutely not.
Do I believe that some form of real QE is coming soon. Yes. How soon depends on how soon the stock market crashes.
Do I think the Republicans and the Tea Party will ever pass anything that doesn't conform to Trickle Up economics, i.e. "NO NEW TAXES on the Rich." No. Do I believe that real tax reform that actually increases tax revenues on the largest multinationals contributions but lowers taxes on small business to next to nothing will be put through by the Democrats. No. Do I see a national government job hiring act like Roosevelt put in place to put 25 million ready and willing workers back to work anytime soon. Absolutely not. So if not from real QE, where does stimulus come from, where does job creation come from, where does consumer spending growth come from and what is going to hold the tehnically insolvent global financial system from a melt down, and cascading sovereign debt defaults?
For me its clear. Whether anyone likes it or not, whether its sovereign debt default, or currency devaluation via extended long term QE, the dollar, the euro and anything weighted down by insolvent counterparties and un-repayable debt are going to be worth less and less. That is what the "monetary authorities" realize and its why they attacked silver and gold so hard because they want to disuade people that the historical bi-metal standard for real money is catching on again among some who are looking at the big picture, including regular folks in the USA and China.
Duffminster
Does anyone care what you "trust", "believe", "like", "believe", "think", "believe", or "see"? No. No. No. No. No. No. And... No.
Then go read his blog that he has been constantly plugging.
Duff - Thanks for your analyses today, on this thread and others. I'm with you on OpTwist2 being a way to guarantee high prices for China, as the one of our major holders of Treasurys that's often feared will sell, and for all its travails and new opportunities, has always plenty of reason to do so. Optics aside, I fear OT2 has little to do with helping U.S. borrowers (mortgage or commercial) borrow more for the long run. Bernanke's scholarly work has already proved such OpTwist magic has little effect domestically. So, the Fed will buy, if no one else, and it will seem for a while longer that long term rates are signaling, it's 11 o'clock and all's well, when all the while, the golden geese of the Capitoline are cackling about the Goths at the gates, but when their noise is too loud (fiat prices of gold run higher), they're muffled lest they disturb the good citizens from their slumbers.
Having already reduced real interest rates to less then zero and given trillions to banksters for crap, there is nothing the Fed can do to stimulate the economy. Unfortunately the rest of the government is paralyzed so thiis is the only available entertainment.
Having already reduced real interest rates to less then zero and given trillions to banksters for crap, there is nothing the Fed can do to stimulate the economy. Unfortunately the rest of the government is paralyzed so thiis is the only available entertainment.
"The daily gold chart suggests support around the 50-Day M.A. but it has on occasion dipped below before turning back up. The weekly chart shows Relative Strength just leaving an overbought zone and history tends to suggest it needs to get back to around the 50 area. I think hindsight can show that any buying be done first at the 50-Day and then have a scale-down accumulation program that only an individual would know what’s best for them. The “mother” of all bull markets remains intact and by the time snows falling here in NJ a new all-time nominal high is likely to be in the cards" from Peter Grandich. He's a loon but surprisingly gold at reading the good market.
why people against deflation always come up with theories that it won't happen because it will destroy the western countries economies, that's correct it will destroy the whole western countries econmies, all they did with this printing that started in 2008 is delaying it a little bit, they can't delay it for ever, it is a natural force like a tsunami that they can't stop, does any one believe that inflation that had been running since 1930 will continue for ever, for ever, for ever !!
Doesn't inflation keep going until it eventually ruins the fiat? Isn't gold standard always reinstated after a 40 year fiat run?
You should probably stay away from terms you can't define (inflation/deflation).
Leave those big words for the grownups.
Central banks are getting to look more and more like Peter North. Yes, they are shooting a huge load, but sooner or later the cum shot it over. It's dribbling right now...
Astute observation
Gainesville coins extending hours today till 7pm est. Apologize for delays. See, business is booming across america.
Love me some Gainseville Coins...
Web site running really slow
Hmmmm. Hmmmm. Ummmmm.
Let me see if I can recall back to high school the concept of compounding. You know - say the silver margin requirement was 50%, and then they raised it 10%, that would get us to a 55% requirement. Then if they did it again, we would get to 60.5% - not 60%. Sooooo way back when, the COMEX raised requirement five times in eight days. I have lost track, but it seems to me that the margin requirement should be up around 150% by now with all of the compounding.
Max Keiser is on record that as long as the silver price is above JP Morgan's stock price, that JPM will crash and burn faster than NASA's satellite. I suppose the wider the spread, the faster the decline. Soooo. We saw JPM down to $28.50 yesterday. Any surprise that silver had to be brought down with it???
Jamie Dimon been on da fone to da Prez no doubt.
the margin is 18500 on 155000 to carry right now, using fridays spot close price of 30.93
or about 12 percent....
Deleted - dupe.
I posted on ZH ~ 4-6 weeks ago that Gold would have support between 1600-1650, it was near $1775 at the time, I suggested and showed I bought Dec 1700 puts, paid ~$30 for 10, sold 5 today @ $125, and will probably sell the other 5 Monday, no need to be a pig but held over the week-end in case of stupidity by the POTUS. I still believe $1625-1650 will hold as support for a new leg back up toward $1775...the chart showed both support, a gap up from there and a rising support (trend) line, and all are correct SO FAR!! could be $1400 Tuesday, but so far so good
it's a pure liquidation trade, even if the ECB print, the EUR will be sell overkill. As long as the SNB bank are selling unlimited CHF, you'll see funds shorting/selling EUR. This makes the USD bid, so PM's wil sell. You DO NOT want QE3, which will not boost gold/silver, as long as Copper falls, now 6% neg, that is a very bearish sign i.e China. The silver collapse happened early, I was thinking end mth, but to hit the 30 support now...yeah Asian could be slowing down hard.
what you do want for gold/silver to be bid again a bank collapse, or Greece finally going (offically) bankrupt. both are likely end year.
The USD bid won't last if there is a bank/s implosion....it's gotta be EZ.
all and all the global economy is crumbling
I warned you guys not to fight City Hall.
Stand up to 'Da Man, and you will lose every time.
Lots of guys here were wiped out.
At least after 3 - 4 margin hikes, its almost a 100% cash market now anyway.
So anyone left standing is probably going to be OK.
My gold dealer here in L.A. is still selling silver for $1.30 over spot and gold at $50 over spot.
http://www.golddealer.com/bullionpage.html
As I stated earlier, its all about paper. Paper markets control the physical markets.
CNI's prices follow spot gold and silver tick for tick.
Can't wait to hear the excuses and backtracking from all the guests on King World News this weekend.
yipper... but sooner or later the margins (or lack thereof) is going to push the traders out of the PM market. And when that happens, you will be left with the holders. paper won't mean shit. there will be physical and only physical. I didn't lose shit today. Not a red cent. Every little Maple that was there this morning is there tonight. No counter party claim to it. JPM, the US Govt. or Jesus Christ can't make me sell it.
"...or Jesus Christ can't make me sell it..."
Oh now that's going to get a thunder bolt or two sent your way. :-) If I were you I wouldn't wear any tin foil hats for a while.
@robotrader
Gold margin is 20:1
Silver margin is 8:1
thats after the raises, its not even CLOSE to an all cash market yet...
You mean like the one from Sprott Money who said they sold out of silver bullion today?
Robo, you wrote a while back,
Therefore, shorting paper can continue indefinitely.
Until "investors" decide to invest in hand trucks and start hauling their silver stash home.
You take a lot of crap around here, but you were dead right, then and now.
Lost? PMs are up YoY on a clip not matched by any other asset for the last decade and you say lost? Give it a rest!
hey, RT!
king world news was pretty bullish, there! http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2011/9/20_London_Trader_-_Massive_Physical_Floor_in_the_Gold_Market.html
now we know that the PMs were in a bubble!
L0-fuking-L!!!!
well, rat, i guess we both now know why all those guys sold at $39. dont we.
lots of big, connected money in my city,
when i wrote that comment in 'disapointment with the fed', i heard something was up, asked the vet. ZH's if they knew what was up, and got called everything but a child of god.....
what a difference 2 days makes.....
so much for tellin' the truth.
ill go back to lurkin'
later...and thanks for havin' my back, rat....
p.s. i hope, ipray they take margins up to 100%. thats what i pay when i buy silver dimes....
BTFD.........BITCHEZ!
well, i knew you were just reporting what you saw & heard
Robo, dont get too excited there guy. The PM clique at King World and the rest of the PM community that includes speculators and investors ALL have recognized out in the open and screamed out loud about the course that this continuing bull market in PM's will take, including periodic short term pullbacks. Sometimes the pullbacks are significant... The reasons for this long term bull market in PM's not only is unchanged, but is getting stronger and stronger every day.. Anyone that had big balls and went all in PM's 10 years ago are sitting on a ten bagger even with this correction and with the crash wipeout in 2008. Be careful shorting PM's during the next few months, you could get hurt.
Hit the buy button until I almost wore it out today. Thanks to COMEX for providing me this golden buying opportunity - I though I was out in the cold for good. Now all the dealers are "sold out" which I assume means they are waiting for the price to go back up before they are willing to sell. Anyway, good hunting.
Just unnoticed Polish Central Bank ( currency code PLN ) has intervened today and STRENGTHEN currency by 3% against EUR.
Is that the only sane central bank by opposing currency wars?
PS: but I doubt they have sold anything. They have enough foreign cash reserves to make intervention.
What we have here is simply the world coordinating together to liquidate everything possible to raise cash and to buy enough ink to run the nuclear reactors powering the printing presses up to 115% to provide money to everyone who needs it.
From the Fed's Operation Twist to provide the money for the Government to refi everyone's home that needs it....to liquidating gold to raise cash to then bolster banks worldwide who are being screwed by the flattening curve and for hedge funds to pay off margin calls to printing enough Dollars, Euros, Yuans, wampum, moon rocks it's the last stand for the world.
Your order for the solution to Peak Oil, no onions, will be right up, sir.
Gold threads here on ZH are far and away the most read, indicating that many ZH readers have concluded (correctly) that gold will be integral in the future functioning of our monetary system, and therefore currently undervalued in real terms.
The popularity of ZH gold threads also indicates that many of these readers lack conviction in their gold positions, and seek out these threads for confirmation bias.
I watch the USD gold price plummet dispassionately, despite (or because of?) the fact that I hold the bulk of my assets in physical gold.
For those of you who wish to be better informed about the current sell-off, Jesse has posted a very rational synopsis here which you may find helpful.
If you wish to understand the function of gold with which to mentally fortify your gold holdings, and your understanding of where our monetary system is headed I suggest taking the weekend to read and consider The Return to Honest Money.
In the meantime, holders of excess USDs may find current USD/gold price weakness useful, but be aware and ready for the possibility that this price may further decline. Holders of other currencies are not experiencing quite the same gold price weakness.
Relax.
The need for gold's function by our monetary system has actually increased, meaning that it's real value, yet to be priced in by a market that has not yet fully come to understand this function, will be reflected in its future currency exchange rate. Educate yourself, think for yourself, and find some peace of mind by understanding gold before the rest of the market does.
There's no need for confirmation bias if you have the self-belief to think for yourself and accept the responsibility.
http://flowofvalue.blogspot.com/
Nice commentary
But Jesse is a krugman loving socialist and should be treated as such
The battle between David and Goliath is similar to the fight between fiat and PM.
I'm hoping for another 50% sell off so I can really add to my stack!
Gainesville still has 1oz Pamp Au bars in assay cards - I couldnt resist I bought 3 more.
I think the upside on Ag is greater but to be honest that shit is getting heavy.
yeah, i think about it the same way. ithink when the time comes; i'm going to sell all my silver to buy a boat, car, food, provissions, etc...to get the hell out of dodge. cause i can carry the gold...walk across the border; but silver...a bit of a hike... though platnium is much lighter.
2008 on steroids made of debt.
The trashing of Gold and Silver would be a total laugher if it were not occuring at this time: because we are living through what history will term in the future as "the end of an era". At the least, this "era" is one of paper money that has no backing whatsoever other than confidence.
The question in is whether or not this "end of an era" will include the breakdown of laws, liberties and the basis of life over the last 300-400 years.
It is clear to those in the most remote parts of the world that GOVERNMENTS are not only part of the problems, they ARE the problem. Their mandated paper monies are the problem at the core.
How foolish for anyone to even contemplate liquidating now, the only monetary assets that will survive the complete destruction of paper. Maybe there is some forced selling and maybe some of the forced selling will scare some late comers into liqudating, this is not 2008.
This is 2008 on STEROIDS!
Actually not steroids, ON GROSSLY MORE DEBT! The system is more levered now than it was back then and this time governments far and wide have joined the party. The biggest risk of government failure is twofold, first, they are not available this time to lever up and postpone the day of reckoning. Secondly, government failures will evaporate confidence. This "confidence" is also the very same "confidence" that allows, Dollars, Yen, Pounds, Euros etc. to trade, spend and have value!
We have arrived at the heart of the problem, THE MONEY!
"Everything was worth nothing". It truly is but the governments stepped in and staked their balance sheets to prolong the fairy tale. They do not have the ability to do this again which is exactly why we are headed there again,
All savings, all investments, all pensions and all currency will become useless, worthless and "unusable".
The current action in the metals obviously is a hail Mary Play to corral investors back into paper. It may be right now or in a few weeks but TPTB will figure out that they cannot hold back the dam any longer. You could see a day or few days where Gold and Silver are down hard (like right now) and the next day (or probably a Monday) Gold will open up some $200-300 and Silver maybe $10-15. They will open up and ..not ever look back.
Or, another more hilarious, from the standpoint of fraud, scenario would be for Gold and Silver getting absolutely smashed (like now) going into a weekend and then POOF...Monday morning they just don't open up to trade!
The COMEX defaults and ALL trades are settled in cash. The scared capital gets washed out the week before, metal doesn't get delivered and the contracts are settled at artificially low prices in Dollars, SIMPLE!
This doesn't sound plausible? It really shouldn't because the trend going into a closure such as this was down but it surely would kill a few birds with one stone wouldn't it? They could say that the metal was always there and never admit the fraud under the cover of a banking crisis/collapse. Of course those with an IQ higher than their shoe size will know that the tiny COMEX was at the center of prolonging the grand banking fraud. You will hear the words "PROVE IT" coming out of the banks, brokers, COMEX etc.!
Right NOW is your best opportunity to buy (other than the 2008 bottom) and your WORST opportunity to sell anything precious metal. Anyone who is scared or freaking out at the recent drops that it will all change in a day or a weeks time.
"When?" this day or week will come but the revaluation will be virtually an over night event and it will be huge. You MUST be "fully loaded" at all times from here on out because if you are not in when "they" either decide or are forced to revalue, the Dollars you are holding may "lose" a zero.
In other words, the risk is being out, not being in!
Have a good weekend and don't fret!
www.lemetropolecafe.com
there are many different ways to "invest" in gold and silver
silver is living up to it's 'bad girl' rep!
volatility, BiCheZ!
Rob0t_T is right abt margins approaching 100% cash
& i say, BRING IT!!!
but if we're gonna see how good gold and silver are gonna do as currency, here, with NO leverage at the "cash market(s?)", let's take all tax aspects off the coinage due to that's what the Constitution says is the right way to operate
it just isn't right in america to subject Constitutionally legal US Mint-produced coinage to Constitutionally dubious paper "legal tender", via taxation. THAT is bullshit! follow the law, and fight!
currency is currency! we'll take a fair fight, will they?
l-l-let's get r-r-eady to r-r-r-r-u-m-m-m-ble!!!
after current raises, gold margin is 20:1, silver is 8:1, he is as wrong about that as everything else he has ever posted.
well, yes and no
with RT = a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, dressed in a bra, he is induced volatility personifried...
tyler has remarked these margin vectors, himself, noting the teleological synthesis
besides, the margin/leverage ratios are paper-hanging hypnogogic bankster propaganda games around the casino tables and the leveraged proposition bets, logically irrelevant to the currency question
ergo, BRING IT!!! like utah. physical v. cash & plastic, no tax advantage or disadvantage for either fighter, fight club rules, and the US Constitution and national heritage, which includes the FACT that the US Mint's original mandate was to accept the gold and silver bullion of its citizens and transmute the PMs into gold & silver coinage, returning same to the citizens who brought in the gold and/or silver
that's the correct system to try for the US. free the gold and silver and the Real Money from the taxman, the pols and the parasites, especially the military, and return the sovereignty of nation commerce to the american people. no fuking "banks" involved!
however, people will still make profits and losses, and will still account for their commerce and be taxed for the parasites, but the fact that there will be two sets of currency, one real & one legal tender means two sets of books and options for capital markets accounting and other options for tax accounting purposes. re-set. level the playing field. power to the people! idividual bullion bankster-brokers in the cash markets, by the hundreds of millions
maybe local banks will become coin dealerships? raging competition in the non-numismatic end of the business
i know, it sounds pretty far out, but if you think about if for maybe 15 seconds, you will see it has to better than the "system" which we are laboring under , now
it is up to the states to pass the currency laws to conform w/ the Consitution. the feds will never be able to reconcile the Real w/ the legal tender in bureaucratic & definitional terms, logically. let the states free the real coinage and money from the taxman and the IRS can not legally interfere, b/c of the Constitution
people will have a choice in how they figure and report income and/ or profit and loss. piece 0'cake! everybody and everything can choose how to particaipate in this market, which is almost like today's, but w/ different business and tax implicaions. very different
somebody wants to buy gold or silver with the People's Minting Rights @ 20:1 or 8:1, i certainly wouldn't blame them if they took delivery, too!
greenstamps fiat V. gold and silver bullion and traditional circulating coinage. that is the fight as required by law. if you do your tax accounting in fiat, you pay taxes in fiat. if you do it in Constitutional money, you pay in real money. stackable @ 100% margin, cash (market) on the barrel. cut the crap, and...
BRING IT, BiCheZ!
Bullion rates
Last week the silver bullion premium was escalating relative to the spot market. Well after the huge haircut in silver this week I am trying to buy more silver bullion and the premiums have gone even higher. I deal with a large, reputable vendor that I have been buying from since when silver traded in single digits. This company was charging a premium of about a dollar an ounce to buy large bars when silver was near its peak. Today, with the spot price at just above $32, the premium is now $1.60 per ounce. That is a 5% mark up above spot.
Back during the lows of the silver meltdown in 2008 I recall the premiums were running pretty high too, but there was also a waiting list. You placed your order and sent payment, but you had to wait at least 2 weeks to even get confirmation that your silver would be shipped.
I should feel lucky that I can even get any physical silver at all today. And perhaps I am buying early, in the midst of this selloff when lower lows may still be lurking. But again, my objective is to continue to accumulate bullion when I can get it, and I am not overly concerned about scalping the lowest possible price level. The market is too volatile and the inventory is too thin to play games. I do not think we will have to wait long to begin hearing about major bullion dealers being completely sold out of silver at any price.
That irony is still in effect. What other product on earth can be subjected to enormous selling pressure at the same time as the demand is rising and the stockpiles are in decline?
It is not so much that are markets are a product of fraud that bothers me. Its the fact that the illegal trading can be so obvious and so prevalent and yet hardly anyone wants to acknowledge this or speculate just where the hell are the Emperor's clothes? People can no longer ignore the scam or pretend it is not happening but the deer-in-the-headlights mentality appears to be the preferred way to deal with it now.
The odd thing about the metals market is how rapidly the emotional swings drive people from fear to greed and back to fear again.
Even with the severity of the selling this week, have no fear. Never doubt that the markets are corrupt, and that some participants have been granted a get-out-of-jail free card to run over anyone in their way.
When the Hunt Bros attempted to buy up the long side of the metals the enforcement agencies went into action with brutal efficiency and drove them to bankruptcy. However when an even more manipulative abuse of trading is in play from the short side the regulatory system has rolled over and left the market to its fate. This latest gang rape does not scare me, but I have swung into rage that such a scam is tolerated in the first place, and that so many others allow themselves to become victims.
In a year that has recorded umpteen new highs for gold and very nearly for silver, my portfolio of mining stocks is now deep in the red. In fact, on several occasions this year my holdings have briefly entered into positive territory and within days a smackdown hit the sector that shredded huge chunks of value. Buying breakouts has become a very dangerous strategy in this sector. But on those days when I tune in to the biz commentary I am almost always forced to endure finger-waving lectures about bubbles for gold and silver, when the metals are discussed at all. This has been a year of contrasts and once again my synopsis is simply that there is no easy money in the PM sector. You must dig in and put up with set backs, selloffs, wild swings, and bearish commentary for years and even then the gains can be stripped away in a couple of trading sessions, at the whim of a handful of crooks with an agenda that is blessed by the political establishment.
Small wonder then that I have chosen to add to my bullion today, as I have done for every selloff over the last 8 years or so. In the 20 minutes that it has taken for me to write this commentary, the premium for 100-oz silver bars just soared to $2.50 per ounce above spot. Anyone that is watching the trading unfold today and perhaps doubting that the PM sector is a good place to be, keep in mind that bullion demand will eventually trump all of the other nonsense. We have two distinct choices if we opt to remain invested:
A) Trust that inept politicians and corrupt institutions can intervene in the markets to support a house of cards and prevent the collapse ofa debt-saturated system by creating even more debt as the solution
-or-
B) Trust that bullion, which has represented real money throughout thehistory of civilisation, will shrug off the pathetic efforts of ahandful of criminals and re-emerge as the last asset of refuge in this era of financial crisis
I am making my choice today while I still have the opportunity to add to my bullion. The premiums are high and they are telling me that inventory is disappearing quickly.
www.lemetropolecafe.com
Great posts. Thank you for your contributions here.
As far as the Hunt bros, and how they tried to corner the market.....this is exactly why we need force in numbers, not just force in quantity. We need to be able to overwhelm the market manipulating crooks from all sides and all angles by having a large number of people buy a large quantity of silver. This way there will be no scapegoat. This way, it was common sense justified by thousands of peope.
This is why we have built our army. Spread the word, I know you will: We are buying silver to take down the banking establishment.
Anyday CNBS reanimates Jack Welch's corpse is a bad day, so here's how I got my frustrations out:
http://acrossthestreetnet.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/the-muppet-show-elmo-strikes-back/
Since it's an open thread on Gold...
The Price of Gold in the Year 2160: http://baselinescenario.com/2011/09/23/the-price-of-gold-in-the-year-2160/
A bit on the lighthearted side
Pete
If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen/trade. I don't care if gold trades down to 800/oz. I still like it versus fiat currency over the next decade+. I remember the dark days of 1999: a CURRENCY that had been universally accepted for thousands of years was written off by 30 year-old retards, (Dan Ford). I keep 15% of my worth in gold as an insurance policy. This sell-off is a good chance to exchange stupid ETF's for physical in safety deposit boxes in a few different countries...and you get some nice long weekends to boot: Switzerland, Norway, Germany... When European CB's are selling I know it is a buy...
Exactly.
And, as any idiot knows, the CB's only sell gold so that the Rothschilds can buy it !!
Who the fuck do you think bought all the CB-sold gold in the last 10 years ??
The stock market tends to crash when they pull liquidity out of the commodity system. Gold tends to rise. It sounds counter intuitive. You have to sell something to keep your gold. Watch it play out on the charts yet again. Just like May. Gold took a minimal hit and then powered up. Stocks started rolling over on May 1 after the silver and oil raids.
Well, here's a little "anything and everything" for a TGIF. I posted this Reply to Gold Man Sacks earlier today. Sacks mentioned having to "earn his stripes" here at ZH. Here was my Reply.
You get your first "stripe" just for coming to ZH...
/ Just for coming to ZH
// For your first ZH post.
/// For your first Junk or Red arrow.
///) 1-Year ZH membership anniversary
///)) Earning your first Subscriber
...etc.
Merit Ribbons awarded for getting first post, making sound arguments, spelling, crediting sources, sense of humor, continuity, providing useful links, donating to or purchasing from ZH, "+1" or green arrows, receiving a direct Reply from TD, and ridiculing Trav777 (just kidding Trav).
Then you get into the Commissioned Officer Ranks...
I-Au Publishing your first article featured on ZH
I-Ag Earning image posting priviledges
II Your personal website is listed/linked on ZH
...etc.
I've got ideas to begin a Demerits list. Anyone else?
Have a good weekend.
All those hash-marks are for the enlisted boys.
For your first gold/silver PURCHASE they instantly make you an OFFICER !!
Would be nice if they would leak this information to me ahead of time...Just once!
The Fed and the Plunge Protection Team have had many years to prepare for events such as this one. If I were a member of the team, I would have suggested a variety of tools to attack the price of gold based on the increasing drop in the DJIA. Some possibles are instituting rumors (coming margin increases) when it hits -250. Sell lots of paper through JP Morgue when it hits -350. Actually start dumping gold in the weaker trading hours.
The FED is heavily vested in keeping the price of gold low. They are getting help from the weaker currencies and this will continue until they start printing again (soon).
They are your government and they are here to fuck you.
we all know part of todays PM plummet was caused by this margin hike by people that had inside knowledge and were selling thier asses of.
so, the question remains....how much drop is still ahead come next week when the sheeple start selling because of the hikes?
I hardly know where to begin this, or whether it will proceed toward an orderly end. For you see, I've just come to the conclusion that what lies between the past and future, the events of now which we call the “moment,” are nothing more than wisps of the will, a phantasmagorical soup of so many ingredients that we can't help but fall into the bowl and drown, screaming out in vain, “Help me, for I can't swim!” Metaphorically, of course, I'm speaking of truth, or rather, of Truth, the capitalized one, and the virtual disappearance of it from our conscious existence.
Truth, you see, is nowhere to be seen. Nowhere. I know,.I've looked all over for it, even beneath my couch cushions. Oh, don't get me wrong, I did find lots of the lower case truths (and some small non-silver change), but no Truths. Let's admit it: we're besieged, befuddled, besotted by truths. Just look at today's headlines in Yahoo Finance. “Political ideology blocking good policy,” screams one. There you go. No longer do we need to wonder why the world's all fucked up. It's damn political ideology throwing chains in the gears of policy! And another: “Stocks Rise on Expectations Policy Makers Will Act On Crisis.” There you go! Now I know exactly why stocks rose today: policy makers are going to act! Yippie!
But wait! Look at those two headlines. One says that we don't have good policy because political ideology hampers such, and the other says that stocks rose because we expect policy makers to act (presumably in a prudent and beneficial manner). I guess they'll just iron out that “political ideology” stuff pronto. And, so, there's the crux of the matter: two truths given to me, and they're diametrically opposed. Ergo, no Truth. Nowhere did I read, “Gold, Silver Down On Blatant Manipulation, Justice Department to Subpoena JP Morgan Insiders.” Don't I wish.
Well, I was gonna write a lot more, but knowing a typical ZH comment reader's attention span, especially to posts which don't contain a reference to a female dog, I'll cut it off here.
Yeah, I keep looking for Truth, and perhaps that's why I keep coming back here, 'cause, frankly, I'm tired of truths.
Dont forget. Last night there was a debate for candidates of one of the two dominating political parties of the worlds largest economy. The debate was hosted by a news network with the highest viewership, and by google, the dominant internet search engine/portal/information shaper.
With all of this fanfare, they conducted an online poll. When the candidate that won the poll was not one of the "acceptable" candidates, these premiere institutions of truth removed the poll results from public view.
More wise than fool, I suspect. Perhaps you won't be the one to ask what's behind the curtain, but rather how many curtains are there?
That sounds like something stupid I would do. But as you mentioned, we really are at that point where you can not abscribe to the "ignorance is bliss" position anymore. And knowing too much will get you in trouble just as it has always been done throughout history.
Regarding that poll conducted by such stalwarts of truth:
Before it was pulled
Where they hid it and you can still vote
You can see why they hid it. It got even worse.
mvsjcl: our intuition, which is natural, will guide the way to truth. We all know it was manipulation. That's common sense. That is the truth. Perhaps we ought not expect to hear admission of this fact from the "masters of the lie"?
Aye. Like a rogue gene. Too bad it seems dormant in too many. But, it can be activated, stirred from its dormancy. All it took for me was investigation into the events of 911. And once activated, it can never be overshadowed again. Not even by pint or toke.
Pity.
Thanks to the paper bitchez for giving me the opportunity to buy physical gold at 1650. I mean it. Thank you so much.
Ok, I don't really see it. This margin increase doesn't look particularly manipulative to me. The price just changed too damn fast. It seems to me that it was simply a reaction to Bernanke's disappoint on QE3.
That in and of itself was manipulative, but at a higher level than just "keel ze metalbugz".
If this margin hike really was the cause, then PMs should start rising significantly Sunday evening. If not, then they will keep falling through the middle of next week.
Since I have a large position already, I will just do my standard monthly buy after OpEx.
You dont see 8 margin hikes on Silver as manipulative? When does it reach manipulative at 10? Are u for real??
There were five margin hikes last time, and yes, that was manipulative. In this case, there was exactly one margin hike that occurred after a large increase in volatility.
The last round was manipulation or complete and total incompetence. This time, not so much. They have every right to manage their risk, and they did, in a single move, which is the only way to handle such things.
It to me also doesn't add up. A plunge is understandable in reaction to a margin hike, but the intensity in this case to me does not add up. Same for the recent rumor about lack of bank recapitalization... sure, would have an effict, but a 10+ percent effect in a matter of hours? In GOLD WTFH? Silver can do that in reaction to a margin hike, but gold doesn't.
Not buying this bullcrap. All those things may have contributed, but they were not the primary driver, but merely a smokescreen - AGAIN! (remember last time?)
Agreed. Margin hikes along is not sufficient explanation.
yar, a 25% move in either direction in 48 hours is very odd, to say the least.
paltry 16-21% margin hikes can't be the only reason.
Here again we find another Weimar Germany. The Jewish banking fraud is manipulating this fuckin market and will lie, steal, cheat, or sell their mother if need be because that is the only way those cocksuckers can earn money. They are a courrpt organization and the time has come to detroy and remove all of this Tribe. Americans are too stupid to study the history of the world and the evil that lerks in the minds of these bastards.
I really detest the hate-speech. Our problems stem from greed, ignorance and corruption - all colors, all creeds.
I deteat it too but look at all the players and tell me who they are and what has happened to America with their behavior.
sucks that the jews have ruined your life.
then again, maybe it doesnt suck that much
take the pain, asshole
Just BTFD !
I bought a stock in 2003 at $3.00 which recently traded straight up from $14.84 on July 1rsrt to $19.23 in sixty days time. The chartists I know advised me to sell it because it was "spiking". As it had "spiked" before in 2007 from $7.20 to over $10 only to crash back to $8.00 and proceed to move even higher in 2009-2010, I elected to hold. Today my stock is trading at $16.43 up over 500% in eight years while the S&P has gone nowhere. My little stock has been extremely reliable over the past eight years and most importantly, I have ignored the advice offered from the investment bank analysts and CNBC which has been a GodSend.
All other commentary is - well - "amusing" and unless someone tells me that they bought before I did and held on for eight years, I refuse to listen to the rabble.
A dash for cash plays out in weeks and months. Look at 2008 and early 2009. It is unlikely that this weekend will be THE weekend to buy PMs. It never works that way.
the money printing is over so no need to buy gold or silver. Carry on, nothing to see here.
Is it just possible the margin hike tonight is a response to the volatility the past 2 days, and not the other way around? I can't really believe that the "strong hand" longs that are supposed to be in gold and silver now, would sell off on the rumour of a margin hike. Conspiracy theory by ZH longs who have lost big (btw I have probably lost more than you, I had around $800k of silver earlier this week, on margin). It seems obvious the fall started as soon as there was no QE3 announcement and the market switched to anticipating deflation instead of inflation. The fall has just accelerated over 2 days, parabolically, which is the classic sign of stops being hit and margin calls.
You are correct: Margin hikes don't affect "strong" hands at all. Strong hands, by definition, can't be forced out because of margin calls (simply because all the "strong" hands are filled with phyzz).
You misunderstood the message of the sockpuppet - what this head of the hydra was supposed to transmit is:
This is entirely normal market reaction, because there now suddenly scheduled by the bernanke is deflation (contrary to the inflation, which according to the bernanke there was just 3 weeks ago)..... and you all gotta believe it, and sell sell sell, because else, no QE for you, and no billion profits by the major dealers.
Keep your calm, bitchez. Don´t be fucking sheeps.
Gerald and silver.....
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2011/9/23_KWN_Exclusive_-_Gerald_Celente_Announces_Hes_Buying_Silver.html
I ate a Gold sandwich for lunch today...you know: just to test a commonly held notion.
After that, I jumped in the car and drove south to Mexico and walked into a bullion store to sell. I told the guy I needed to use the toilet before I could show him the product.
SURPRISE! - Gold is at an all-time high. I used the money to buy gasoline (with the Peso trading 13:1 it cost me the equivalent of $2.41 per gallon.)
Now I am sitting on a beach, with a full tank of gas, eating a golden taco, and thinking that all is well in the world...
burrrrrrrrrrrp!
What better way to create a dip than by rumor+hiking margins? If I get to come back, I want to be in the driver's seat and enjoy a few rules of my own.
For now....time for a Chimay Blue.
Gold is bouncing between the 50 day bollinger bands w/2 standard deviations. It could pull back to 1,500/oz before resuming it's climb upward.
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=GLD+Interactive#symbol=gld;range=2y;compare=;indicator=bollinger(50,2)+volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=;
Bet you that Blythe is blowing somebody. The banks are broke and need to have a very rigged game to stay alive.
If you think that the $100 trillion in unfunded liabilities will disappear ...sell your PMs
If you think congress will work together to reduce the debt... sell your PM's
If you think the FED balance sheet will shrink....sell your PM's
If you think Americans will wake up and stop shipping jobs to China and India...sell your PMs
Nothing has changed, this is just massive manipulation to save the fiat
Amen to that.
Never listen to tips or rumors, pick pockets galore today. Relax you think those morons at the debate last night are going to solve anything? The song remains the same, BTFD!
oh jeez, more excuses for a profit taking event. Look, Gold will be the first thing banks sell to pay off debt. It happened in the 90s with the asian tigers and it will happen in Europe. And, if there is a european collapse of some kind you all should be in the USD as that will create the biggest deflationary enviroment earths history has ever seen. We have already seen weekness at $1800 gold when the USD spiked and then followed by a sell off. It will take no time for any Central bank, hedge fund and investor to see where the money is going.
roger sockpuppet account #8950480548309534. Centrally advised mode of operation: buy dollars and sell everything else.
For those who still didn't get it....
According to central command, you are supposed to now:
- crash the paper market
- buy currencies
So that the currencies are strong enough, and the paper market weak enough, that they can announce QE666, and you all get assraped.
FUBM
Exactly. A real downside will over shoot the trend line and make people question their rationale for being long in the first place. We've got another $300 downside before gold longs start thinking crazy thoughts like, " maybe it is different this time and the dollar will be a good store of value". Then you're near a real bottom, Bernanke talks of an LSAP, and PMs turn back up.
That said, I'll probably have to extend my long position a bit here just incase they decide to keep bailing out Greece for 3 more years or something utterly stupid like that.
Keep cash on hand while EU implodes so you can sell your fiat paper for gold.
@ All,
You are going to have to excuse me here.
Everyone has said it in one way or another.
I will say it this way.
It is perfectly obvious that a crime has been committed.
Insiders knew of the margin hike before it was announced.
That is a conspiracy to commit theft.
There is no doubt about this.
And CME have the records of those who traded before the announcement.
I suggest you report that crime to the SEC and, you might think I'm being a bit stupid here, your local police force.
Do it.
Put it on record.
They act with impunity, above the law. They fear Matt Taibbi more than the law because their wives hate being embarassed by having their husbands crimes exposed.
I see what your saying.
Though in this case I think it worthwhile to initiate proceedings.
They won't last forever and if the record is there they will have to face the Law, if not Justice.
To me this is "in your face theft".
A Class action for discovery of the trades prior to the announcement might at least provide information on who committed the theft.
Would dearly love to see it, believe me. The work of GATA and the guts of Andrew Maguire are something to admire.
Thought I replied earlier but I guess it got lost.
Just wanted to say I admire and owe a debt of gratitude to GATA, courageous folks like Andrew Maguire, and anyone else who puts the heat on the crooks.
WTF? It's there now.
NSA needs to be a little more stealthy: use"copy" not "cut," next time, moron.
LOL, ok.
"Unlimted liquidity" Yep that's what it will take, Trichy and PMs to the moon as a result. Let 'er rip.
The only thing that has moved the price of PM's is the speculation of paper gold via leveraged and manipulated accounts.
Just like oil, where they sat fleets of tankers off our shores during the oil 'crisis', the 140 GS oil bubble, and currently with the $3.50/gal 87octane its a sham.
You will see
There will come a day when no one will take the long side of a paper short trade in silver. And after a day like today, i've got to believe that day is approaching. Obviously that would make the price zero. Today is a great day folks. Physical price discovery will soon decouple from paper. We're a lot closer to that now.
Exactly.
Let them go to 100% margin and physical deliver.
The CME is a scam.
Why anyone takes it seriously is a mystry.
Don't they know the insiders will fuck them in the end?
The flipside to this is IF the physical price fully decouples from the paper price, it won't last for more than a few days as the arbitrage of taking (not neccessarily receiving) delivery would be a no brainer - if spot price is $1500, yet the physical market is buying at say $2000, then there would be a scramble (which in theory would bid price back to alignment) to fully empty exchange vaults for what little, if any, physical remained.
Now, were it known there was no physical for delivery on a certain exchange, producers will still always have to be selling physical somewhere, as they need to to pay the bills. How do they find price discovery? On an exchange. Not neccessarily comex, but on an exchange somewhere. So, people may look towards say the HK, Shanghai or Australian exchanges for true price, as no matter what, there will have to be sellers as well as buyers.
Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not a fan of any of the shennanigans being played out with the paper price and/or suppression or manipulation, and think current spot is not a true reflection of what price should be, or will be, but just don't believe spot can go to zero, or anywhere near it: unless fiat ceases to exist in its entirety.
When and if that day comes, there will be no such thing as price discovery, other than barter.