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Gold Liquidations Open Thread
Update: Yep - it was a leak of a margin hike as just confirmed. Which may very well mean nobody actually had to liquidate, just the herd thundered, as it always does, in the wrong diraction. Expect gold to actually rise on this news.
Everyone knew they were coming... Just not when. Now that the gold liquidation frenzy has struck we still don't know much if anything: who was it, why, and where did the money go? Some rumors have it as a bank in Central, Eastern Europe unwinding massive PM positions, which if true is paradoxically bullish for gold and silver as reported previously, as it means the already tight liquidity situation in Europe is about to come to a head, possibly as soon as this weekend. Others speculate it was a plain vanilla satisfaction of collateral requirements by a big funds who may or may not be liquidating and who have sizable gold positions. Or, the simplest explanation, was it simply an expectation (and leak) of a gold margin hike? For all these questions and more, as well as to vent over anything and everything, use the following open thread.
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going tomorrow to get sum bars :)
If I was holding some bars I wouldn't sell them to you for less than $2,500 oz.
CME is not a price.
It is a Mafia.
are we ever going to see/hear marla again spinning some tantric trance tunes in the future???
All I know is, with this hike coming after hours, it will be a gold bloodbath come Monday morning.
This was perfectly predictable. Equities, PMs, etc. people had stupidly priced in QE3 already and when the Bernank didn't deliver, we get a contraction. So what?
When the money supply shrinks I'll eat my hat. PMs are the only real money. Another buying opportunity presents itself. I predict it will come down and touch the 150 MA, as it ought to have in July before it suddenly got supernaturally levitated. Or might just bounce of the 100 MA following a new more aggressive upward slope.
Oh, and I'm sure I'm not the first to mention that Cramer was on TV yelling at us that gold's bull run wasn't finished yet. THAT was a tipoff that it was a great time to short SLV and GLD for a quick buck.
Karl's gloating over at Ticker-Forum.
Denninger, like Robo, will be quiet as a church mouse and nowhere to be found when Au breaks $2000
Who gives a fuck.
It's all more of the same old shit, different day, different circus act.
Absolutely nothing as in naught, nada, fuck all nothing has changed. The periphery of the EU is still sucking hind tit, the EU has been blessed with a thousand leaders with no leadership capabilities, Greece will de-fuckall-falt along with at least One other rcontinental country, the European banks do not have enough capital to mark one country one half way to market and will be bailed out by make believe by their very own respective bankrupt gubamints, the politcal tension in the US has ground the country to (Hourray everybody used to say!) Gridlock, the leadership here is as bad as Europe's, the paesantry world wide are getting more than a little restless, getting sick and fucking tired of being treated like indentured (debt pun! LOL) servants by the New Versilles, the global looting has neither abated nor is it even being attempted to be done even somewhat quietly, the Central Banks of The Industrialized Nations will Once Again Initiate the Mass Printing of Fiat Currency in an Attempt to Keep the Whole Fucking Charade of Whole Country Theft Afloat, the Perceptions Managemant of the Masses by the Gubamints elected and unelected of the world will continue full speed ahead, efforts redoubled, the MSM will be working Over-Fucking-Time to cover the mess up as much as possible....
Nothing. Fuck All Nothing Has Changed.
So there's been a little more manipulation of PM's today coinciding with some shit bearing news after a humongoloid rally these last 2 months. And some people are pissing their pants.
If you'd had a solid vision for the future 2 months ago that proscribed being long PM's then it will not have changed today.
Solid Vision, not pussy excuse wanna be trader shit......
Fuck all's changed.
Well, in truth, maybe gotten a bit more unravelled around the edges, to the point where ther is absolutely no center left to hold. Like this is exactly what everybody's been cheering for from the sidelines.... so expect some more big fucking dislocations.
Get a Grip.
It's been fucked, it's still fucked, got a little more fucked today and will be a lot more fucked tomorrow.
Enjoy this journey, for it ain't gonna happen again in our lifetimes...
Guaranteed.
Just when you think it was safe to get back in the water....
Time to Man Up.
Nice
"Just when you think it was safe to get back in the water....
Time to Man Up."
There is no hedge.
Aren't the paper longs just as leveraged as the paper shorts. In terms of the Matrix: Gold is Zion.
..
..
to you too..
Like Fed intervention, margin hikes will soon become ineffective. When people realize that paper gold and silver
are highly leveraged and do not represent real physical metals, prices will increase by multiples.
Take advantage and accumulate.
De-coupling of physical and paper?
Dr. Copper was the target, but Ag & Au are welcome collateral damage ?
How is Chavez's repatriation of Venezula gold going these days? No news on that.
Any news of any new attempts to relaunch the repealed $600 PM reporting requirement?
If US govt can't confiscate physical gold from people a la FDR, and if Nixon was able to renege on the gold standard, what are chances of nationalizing the miners to control the outflow of PMs to speculators, hoarders, preppers, and just plain honest folk who are tired of all this fiat fiasco. Where has that been done recently?
if it were actually being moved, they would do their best not to publicize it via a news outlet.
and he ain't getting his 211 tons. not a chance on this earth in this day and age.
Hold de boat!
Some coincidences.
!.) Hugonaught claims physical as is his prerogative as it's his property. Wants to take it out of the LBMA system, his business. Got a vault in Caracas? His problem.
2.) Word in press has it 99 tons is due to be returned by Bank of England.
3.) Many remember urban legend/conspiracy theory that BoE ran out of gold redeeming it during Soros run on sterling way back when... and were shipped shit from Ft. Knox to make good. (PS Ft Knox is all US gold. US custody of foreign gold is at FRBNY.)
4.) Logical question, does BoE have 99 tons to ship to Hugosta?
5.) France and Britain were the two instigators of the Libyan freedom charade.
6.) (Hang with me here a minute, this all ties together.) France and Britain had the largest oil concessions in Libya. Ergo, some casual interest. Else why all the broohahhah about human rights? They'd just been supportive of Libya chairing the UN Human Rights Commission.
7.) War making slow progress in getting into Tripoli. Until just after Hugonuts demand for the 99 tons.
8.) Libyan (Al-Qaeda) freedom fighting rebels announce the sale of some 25 (?) tons of gold to make salaries and purchase weaponry. Now that's first that I can remember a freedom routine backed by the West had to pay for their guns and butter. Let me be the first to call Bullshit on that sorry ass excuse.
9.) All of a sudden, Tripoli falls and there's access to Libya's gold.
Betcha BoE just got partial fill on that 99 tons a goin' to Hugo.
All the information is from the public domain. Just some puzzle fixin' and pattern recognition.
Careful, Alice. The Rabbit Hole is Mighty Deep©
i had a period this morning of being kind of bummed that the fiat denomination of metal has 'lost value' (on paper) sharply in the last two days.
i lamented that had i not bought those 200oz Ag last week, i could have bought about ~20% more with that same fiat this week...
then i realized how lucky i was to be in a position to even buy said metal, and knowing the macro perspective of the criminal global economic system. that puts me in top 1% of people on the planet being able to afford to even purchase PMs, and at least the top 4-5% domestically that know what's coming. and then i felt a lot better :)
.
Margin hike coming!? Wonderful...get rid of some of those ersatz paper gold holders and leveraged bettors...
This will actually HELP those of us holding significant amounts of actual metal: every margin hike drives out leverage and increases the impact of the buying of physical metal.
Bring it on...
"What's THIS?
"...a bank in Central, Eastern Europe unwinding massive PM positions..."??
NOT so; they were unwinding massive paper PM positions on which they never, ever had the slightest intention to TAKE DELIVERY.
Bring it on...
Someday we'll all look back at this and laugh..
Another take by Mr.Sinclair, (posted in a diff thread)
www.jsmineset.com
I am a novice trader here and would appreciate clarification on something. I used to work for CEO/Founder of a major US company, managing his personal finances. When he wanted to sell his company stock (minimum we sold was blocks of 100,000 shares), it was a private sale through a broker, the sale never hit the exchanges. So why would any big players (large hedge funds, banks, central banks, etc) who had to liquidate, use a public exchange and drive the price down as they are trying to sell ..isn't this what dark pools are for?
No Form 4 filing? Whistle Blow him, you'll recover 10%
Of course a Form 4 was filed...after the fact. My point was the broker found the buyer(usually a single buyer..never sold to any single person less than $25,000 shares..so blocks of 100,000 shares were sold to no more than 4 buyers) and the sale never hit any public exchange. So, for example if BAC needed to sell some of their 7.9M shares of GLD to raise cash it seems to me they would quietly find a buyer and negotiate a deal. Of course the other possibility is that someone big knew that BAC was going to need to sell their GLD to raise cash(maybe other banks and hedge funds too) and they drove the price down so they would get a better price when they bought it from BAC. Again, I am a novice trader here..so anyone please correct me if I'm wrong.
A Form 4 must be filed before the end of the second business day following a change in ownership of securities or derivative securities (including the exercise or grant of stock options) for individuals subject to Section 16 of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.
Provident Metals website dodgy this afternoon, then they posted this:
NOTICE: We are currently experiencing extremely high call volumes. We recommend that all customers utilize our secure online ordering system for order placements. If you prefer to speak to someone in person, you may leave a message and we will do our best to return your call as soon as possible.
Out of 2011 Silver Eagles.
Do the long-term trends and peaks in the stock market flow in parallel with the Human condition? That is what the Fed thinks. The Fed believes that if they could move the stock market hard and long enough, they would somehow influence the human condition. The economy is just a reflection of the human condition. If society thrives the economy thrives. As society declines because of generational aging, war, and excessive debt the economy reflects the downward spiral. If that is true...then the economy has a long way to go. The baby boomers are just starting to retire. Message to the Fed. Changing a reflection does not change the actual object being reflected. . Just saying...
Rule 308, that's all they understand. BTFD in gold but forget not the most valuable metal of all, LEAD!
Yes and you can't cure cancer by airbrushing the X rays.
Jesus who could possibly farking care that Gerland Celente is buying silver. Eric King's podcast series has been declining in useful value for several months now. James Turk, who said silver would be back at $50 "within weeks" of the Spring crash? Yeah, like we really need to hear from perma-bulls 24/7. Even Jim Sinclair got a bit cautious this Summer. And yes, that was useful.
GG
In EUR, GBP or AUD terms gold is not down that much. Remember USD is not an absolute measure of value, this could be just about USD spiking up.
Ever wonder why the CME increases PM margins only after the PMs start tanking?
Observe 9-22 action and then comes the 9-23 margin hike.
Why not raise margins when PM prices are rising?
The CME raises margins when PM prices are falling to liquidate longs.
Shorts get preferential treatment this way.
Once again i submit a word
Overkill
&nhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcu7OCIqlqEbsp;
"as well as to vent over anything and everything, use the following open thread."
how about that airline food, huh?
you'd think that for the $500 ticket you could at least get a decent meal, instead of a wilted lettuce salad, mayonnaise packet, and stale bread!
i mean, come on!
Yeah but now you get a free reach around at security.
The yield of T-bond is so low, I think, I should purchase more gold coins.
But T-bond not going down 1% every couple hours.
Sell 10 or 30 yrs T-bond at current high price, buy gold at lower price now. What is your advice?
Check my prostate?
Given that choice I would buy gold. 30 year T-bond will go down 80% once we get back to 10% inflation. I already have 10% inflation myself since my two biggest costs are college and medical.
Agree, that is the result of OT2 from Fed, who must cut PM's price hard. Thanks mjk.
BTW, the QE3 is coming sooner than you think.
let's talk about something else.
AGQ daily looks like 2 barrels plunging from niagara falls. Can't wait to catch that fukker at about 80. 80 or lower to 1000 when the hyperinflationary stage strikes after the central bankster printing panic next year is gonna be sweeeeeet.
Good plan, clearly exposed. Thanks!
On 9/17, Marc Faber said Gold Is Not Only An Inflation Hedge
"I think it is important for investors to understand the role of gold as an insurance against a systemic failure and not necessarily as a hedge against inflation. I should add that I own gold for both reasons, believing that it will perform well in both an inflationary and deflationary environment. In addition, I am not selling any gold but traders should realise the gold price is extremely overbought and that it could easily drop toward the 200-day moving average – that is, between $1,500 and $1,600 (not a prediction). As I just said, I am not selling my gold because I expect much higher prices in future. But, near term, both T-bonds and gold appear vulnerable to a more serious correction. "- in Beacon Equity
Tell marc thanks for letting us know gold will both increase and decrease in value.
Nothing like waiting for your check to clear at APMEX and knowing that by the time your PM arrives you could have had it for a lot cheaper.
I know that buying on a regular basis and DCA will smooth it out, but still....
Oh well.
So, are most of you in this, the acquisition of physical gold and silver, for the long term? Is there any other reason to have it? Seems like such a position is, by far, the easiest on the nervous system.
It would also seem like this is a test to see who can handle the pressure and who can't. I must confess, the last two days tried my patience, but I just fall back on to my mantra of "Long term, long term, long term," and it was like, "Oh, I can handle this. I just have to take a deep breath and realize we are at War."
I would not want to be long with a significant position in AU this weekend. And this is from someone who owns physical gold.
It has become crystal clear to me we are in a deflationary environment. The CBs cannot inflate, despite Bernake's best attempts to do so. Credit destruction is happening now, with much more to come. Greece will default, resulting in further selloffs across all asset classes, including gold and silver.
Gold and silver will not be a haven. It will be liquidated, as it was today. Also, with this evening's margin hike, Monday is going to be a serious takedown in the paper gold market.
If deflation is the road, the paper has to be completely burned off for the physical to decouple. Then the price goes to where the physical market alone will trade it (which is very, very high).
If you have a "weekend" view of PM holdings, you are in a different place than most here.
The only thing deflating is federal reserve note puchasing power. Bernanke hasn't even gotten started. This bullshit takedown of the metals is just to scare you sheep. One ounce of gold bought 1260 FRNs at this time last year and what is it now, like 1660 FRN's? Sure, gold's going to zero. Cracker please, leave me out of your central bank worship and oh yeah, I love having a significant AU "position" this weekend, just like last year.
half a ton of silver
still weighs as much
as a small walrus....
But does it taste as good?
fortunatley no...
or i'd be
a fatter, broke bear
long walrus flippers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzNLYolfWxE
Gold Liquidations, lol, Chairsatan's BTFD Cup of Fornication goes down like an idiot tatood lad slamming Goldschlager, which he will be pissing out in the wind before the Sun comes up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZzXYzyi1-k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R28b8XXoXs&feature=related
Bill Murphy, John Hathaway, etc. must be having a coronary.
I bet he looks back and wishes he had invested in some leading retail growth stocks instead.
Even crashed and broken stocks like FOSL and NFLX are still way, way up the last 2 years.
NFLX is up from $50 to $129.
Poor Newmont can't even hold $60, after being at $45 2 years ago.
Many juniors have been completely sacked down 60% from their highs.
My SVM calls are the only thing that held their price today in the wonderful world of PM. I'm not sure about their value yet...
Yep, only took 2 days to totally unglue what looked like it might finally be the long awaited resumption in the bull market for miners. Wonder where all those long-term minded institutional investors went, they sure seemed to dump pretty quickly at the first sign of a break.
Still, GDX as low as 54.94, and OPENED below the lower bollinger band of 58.91, with 2 huge gap-down opens in a row - even RIMM and NFLX can't match that, at least not as a break from what was at least a moderate uptrend.
Still, fucking miners.
For some reason, the miners haven't been able to translate record gold prices into blow-out earnings. Until they can show me some earnings, I'm not going to get very excited about them.
Totally unconcerned and don't care. It is odd that garbage like GM and BAC would be up 4% on this same day though. I don't try to figure this shit out anymore. The new trade now is apparently to go long the most worthless crap that no one in their right mind should want and short the quality shit. That's why I stopped trading this market a long time ago so I could concentrate on a more honest game...The craps table. People are mad because gold makes perfect at sense at this perfect time and it got whacked for who knows why? It's only $250 from it's all time high. It could still hit $2000 before year end.
"Totally unconcerned and don't care. It is odd that garbage like GM and BAC would be up 4% on this same day though."
Watch for World-wide-QE possibly over weekend or near term.
Greece is dead and they need to reflate 2-3+ trillion $$$
world-wide to avoid collapse of global fin. system.
Few Trillion $$$ world wide heroin ejection is around the corner
That's why PNB Paribas up nearly 10% and Gold down over 5%...
1-2 weeks time frame if not over weekend, max, got it?.. IMHO
Would not surprise.
Dear JPM,
You can not believe how happy I am that you have made SILVER COINS less expensive in FRN's today. Please do that SOME MORE!!!! Can you take it down to $4, or better still FACE VALUE?
What a joy that would be. I mean it. All the silver coins I have, I will keep till I need them to buy bullets BITCHEZ.
I sincerely hope that day does not come while I am alive...because if it does I will NOT HESITATE. Actually that trade could go either way: Silver-Bullets; Bullets>Silver
Sweet Dreams!
I must admit that riding this ride to 1$ would be awesome.
My own weight in silver. Maybe even a little mini-me in gold.
Be interesting to see what happens when people realize US debt was raised today to $15.19 Tril. US debt will be 101% debt to GDP...probably by November at present spending rate.
Good call. More relevant than the PM raid, fer sure.
Calculate how much money has to be injected to reflect Greek
default + Italy + Spain circumstances + world wide Banks affected
by credit write downs.. We are talking about Trillions of $$$..
World wide QE is coming (already in full force in UK) Bernank
keeping bazooka ready.
If gold hadn't marched to 1,920, we'd be joyous over a 1,600+ handle. The fact that it did means we're at a (temporary) 1,600+ handle with a whole lot more paper bugs and weak hands strained out.
No whining here. My PMs look the same today as they did last week, and there's another bullet out of the manipulators' chambers. :D
exactly + they will still have to reflate the credit write down
hole.. Mean while Crooks are at full force, punishing those,
who are trying to hide from 0% interest rates and 5%+ inflation.
That's the main point, all other clowns already locked in the
(losing position) - US FED treasuries. Look at them, man, they
like a hunters, they'll give you nothing on your savings and, if you dare
try to invest outside the FED, will generate flash crash, to collect
profits.. Basically nowhere to hide from those crooks..
Like they care about JOBS? Ohh, yea, Gimme a break..
I was talking to some of my CNN, MSNBC following friends today and they were all intensely focused, geeking even on "what happens next", govt shutdowns, CB bank interventions, jobs policies ect, ect. I felt compelled to point out that maybe thier focus was in the wrong place, because most likely whatever happens next has already been done, and has failed spectacularly before. so in my humble opinion whatever the PTB's do from here forward is anti-climatic because the damage has already been done, the hole has already been dug and we have been out of time, out of money and shit out of luck for a while now. whether or not DC continues to punt or kick the can on jobs or deficits or the economy as whole is pointless and not of much relevance now, because we ran out of road about 3 years ago. austerity or stimulus, spend, print or take the machete to everything in sight is it really going to matter now? the US, Europe and the rest of the "civilized" world are already saturated and drowning in debt in every sense of the word, the juggernaut that is this debt is growing, consuming and destroying everything in it's path.
maybe years ago they could have tamed the beast if the will, discipline and foresight to resist cheap credit had been there , stopped it before it grew and developed a life and will of it's own, but it's to late now. it's like watching godzilla annihilate Tyoko and saying " gee, maybe we should stop nuclear weapons testing, or maybe we should try building a bigger bomb to try and destroy him with it", after we have already used every conventional and nuclear weapon currently available to no affect. either way it reaches a point where no matter what those in charge do destruction is assured.
I suggested maybe it was time to start thinking about what they were going to do next instead of what the politicians, bankers and PTB's might have planned. how are you going to deal with living in an America that, while it is barely recognizable now, will soon become completely alien and more hostile to freedom, self determination and individualism than one could imagine was possible. I don't see where a collapse of the current incarnation of the world economic system is avoidable or can even be delayed much longer at this point, then will come the riots, martial law, wars and all the things that make up every Americans worst Orwellian nightmare.
I think the founders made it clear that all that stood between freedom and tyranny, between being true individuals or collectivist slaves was "we the people", the ability, responsibility and will for average Americans to ban together in defense of their rights, withdraw their consent to be governed by the current system and if necessary, abolish and replace it.
that may be the only decision, the only "policy", the only thing that matters now, not what they do but what we do.
Standing Clapping... Great Post. This is what people need to realize.
I suggested maybe it was time to start thinking about what they were going to do next instead of what the politicians, bankers and PTB's might have planned
Reminds me of something that stuck with me that Dmitriv Orlov said in;
Closing the 'Collapse Gap'
http://www.energybulletin.net/node/23259
".. Don't pay attention to Politicians, it only encourages them, They are a colossal distraction. Stay Focused..."
He also quoted Solzhenitsyn of how to survive the Gulag.
"Don't Believe Them, Don't Fear Them, Don't Ask Anything Of Them."
They are no longer in control. The steering wheel has broken off in their hands, and they are passing it between them. Individually, Family, Community... Prepare.
GET Local.
http://www.energybulletin.net/node/23259
...well said Marc, but, this ''time'' is different. When we see what you described come to pass this time, it has been perfectly describe as being the fulfillment of end time prophecy. This is a fact, as it is written.
If the CFTC were an honest function body of course Gold and Silver would be way in advance of where it is now. But they are not, they are as corrupt as the Banksters they serve.
The CFTC's function IS to allow corruption of commodities as and when required by their banking masters. We know one former CFTC judge has said to his masters at the CFTC that he would never find for a plaintiff.This is about as corrupt as you can get.
The corruption of gold and silver markets is so well known now that the banking cartel scarcely bother to hide their corrupt behaviour.
They attempted to murder the only whistle blower on silver corruption after he had given his real time testimony. Showing the cartel in action real time.
But even with so much circumstantial evidence and direct witnessing and caught with pants down corruption real time being exposed....the CFTC did what?
It will only take one or two from the CFTC to get 10 years prison for the CFTC to suddenly go straight, and just one senior commodities manager to be dragged in by the FBI (forget CFTC) and get 10 years dildo punching prison, for the banksters to go look for other ways to corrupt.
Never the less even with massive corruption in the market to try and supress prices they have still managed to surge.
Wikileaks....how about some CFTC insider leaks ffs!!
The really big question is what caused today's drops. If it was due to margin hikes or disappointment with the Fed for not doing QE3 then maybe we have seen most of the selling and prices will soon stabilize or rally. But if today's selling was caused by a liquidity event and/or central bank selling, then prices might drop a lot more.
The Fed did the twist just as most people expected, so it is kind of hard to believe that this caused such an extreme reaction. And past margin hikes also haven't resulted in such huge swings.
So that leaves open the possibility of a liquidity event and possible distress selling of PM's by a central bank. Dare we hope for such good fortune?
"but if today's selling was caused by a liquidity event"
Show me any example when Market was Green or slightly down, while Real money (GOLD/Silver) was in the flush crash mode? I cannot recall that.. And it's illogical. You really think that Gold/Silver would be liquidated ahead of French/Italian/Greece troubling banks, which are in fact were enjoying the rally??? Market up and Silver flashed 15+% it's a lifetime event. My bet
on that: Greek Default over weekend (or very near term) :) More likely based on Market actions..
I'm perplexed about what happened today and don't pretend to understand it. But it was very unusual and I just have this feeling that something big is happening behind the scenes. Probably related to developments in Europe.
I just love this GOLD bugs crying .
Thats a comment? If you don't have anything intelligent to say why pollute a blog with such school boy drivel? OR maybe you are just some angry chick who just got arse raped by equities?
@pretorian
you mad?
I bought before the 2008 crisis, and i have been on holidays since late july, tell me again what you, i mean others, are crying about?
http://www.chartseeker.com/images/AU-3M-LG.png
We're crying: "Hallelujah! Gold just went on sale!".
LOL, crying for buying!
Aren't you just a sadistic little bitch.
You work at treasury or do you just suck Bens scrotum for a living?
Hey folks, TIME TO WAKE UP! Our Central Planners have out-witted us and we ARE currently in the process of an orderly default by Greece. The rumors, the jawboning, the increased margin requirements, the extended volatile behavior in markets, tells me that the counterparties are raising cash - USD - in order to meet their CDS obligations (denominated in USD, of course). Make no mistake, when Greece defaults, the shorts will win for a couple of hours until vicious BUYING occurs, the SAME DAY! Be prepared to BUY hand over fist! Ask yourself, why have they kicked the can down the road for so long? It's not because they don't have a plan, oh no, they do, and the plan has and is being implemented while we're being blind-sided. Of course, going long will only last as long as the shorts can't take it anymore, then the attack on Italy and Spain begin, with another long, drawn-out process that will occur over months, not days or weeks. Get used to trading - this is your new strategy for survival.
I don't follow you.
I've just felt the difference between value and price today.
I feel the value of my old canadian silver junk dollar is 20 bucks. But my best choice is still Calgary 1986 Olympics, 1 oz pure silver at face value 20$.
Anyhow, at 20$ a piece, I say good value. Please Royal Canadian Mint, do that one more time.
When are you "gold bugs" ever going to realize that this is a "rigged game?"
The apostrophes aren't necessary here. We understood.
@DavidDavid
you learned that it was a rigged game FROM goldbugs, its the rigging of the game that necessitates goldbuggishness
When DOW:GOLD ratio hits 1:1 (I personally will take 1:3),
simple enough. Comeback in January, we'll talk, who and where
rigged.. :))
We know it is a rigged game, there is irrefutable evidence of that for Silver at least.
But even being rigged they have not been able to stop its continued rise and depend on corruption to keep it rigged.
There is a message in that surely. That if Gold and Silver have been surging for a decade even under heavy downward manipulation that there are inexerable forces feeding the growth.
That would probably be the growing realisation that global economies and geopolitics are beasts TPTB are losing control of, and absent tight puppetry control by TPTB any final result is possible.....thus the insurance need of gold and silver. The short term and long term future is too uncertain to not hold insurance.
And if TPTB want to manipulate the price of insurance downwards, well thanks I will increase my insurace with the cheaper premiums. And with so many 'fires' about who would want to dump insurance?
Gold and Silver are now not a trade, they are a AAAA transferable get out of jail free card no matter who the prison warden becomes.
If i were to play devils advocate, i'd say they don't have to prevent an overall rise to:
1. rob the masses, including PM holders
2. get the psychological message sent
You see, for someone like us, it of course matters, that PMs in the longterm allow us to lose LESS, but it still relative to currency inflation and wealth transfer doesn't make us winners - it just makes us "lesser losers". And that PM suppression may still psychologically get the message sent, should be obvious.
SO, even though one may argue "on doomsday, it will all work out", until/if that day arrives, the manipulation WILL have played into their pockets, and there as long as you play by their rules, will have been nothing to prevent it - including buying PMs.
Again, i'm not implying that holding PMs is disadvantageous relative to most alternatives. I'm just saying: Until the day of reckoning your hoping so much for arrives, you too will be among the global losers - just less of a loser than the sheeple. Bottom line: this "strategy" so far isn't about winning - it's about losing less.
Its a rigged game we are winning. In case you hadn't noticed, Au is at $1660...
Meanwhile the stock market hasn't made a new inflation adjusted high in over 10 years.
Note: Gold hit 200 W MA .. significant support
They're going to print more sooner or later. Don't get your panties in a bunch.
I am still miles ahead on silver and gold.
There is a trickle of blood on the streets......the one thing certain is nobody knows just how all this is going to end....if you wanna get caught just holding USD or Euros then good luck.
With Asia and Russia strengthening long term buyers, and central banks rediscovering gold, I think its future growth is pretty secure regardless of short term events to shake the tree.
After the EU and US economic disasters and corruption do you think Asians are not going to think they better increase their independance of those fiats.
Silver's long term fundamentals are strong even outside of its monetary metal function.
PMs are going to become an essential component of everybody's portfolio from now on.
Lost some dough this week cause I was too stubborn to close out an old 401k cause of the big penalty and tax hit.... So now I'm just gonna relax this weekend and chill ...listening to some classic Bob Marley and drinking some cheap wine...smoking a cuban...can't get better then this
excuse shift to off-thread topic ... but relevant.
Marc Chandler has interesting piece on 'good news' of Ireland being completely overshadowed by other overwhelming bad news.
His piece is the only reference and discussion I've seen anywhere.
you should read it .... some progress has been made ... maybe 'luck of Ireland' unique circumstances and other differences say from Spain ,etc .. but worth reading
What an awesome site we have here all.
525 posts and 18,130 reads......4+hours. Nothing more to say.
Here's one more post. Let's talk economy, should we?
I love gold and silver. They are beautiful.
I am down 16% just this week on my miners. But it is all part of the process.
dumb fck
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/morgan-stanley-releases-definitive-gold-st...
What's more bogus, this manipulation or our expectation of price discovery?
Listen up folks. As someone who works at a large precious metals dealer, the last two days saw record sales. Now that it's clear what the selling catalyst was, I'd say the fundamental demand for precious metals is crazy strong. Did I mention that the last two days saw record sales. The previous record sales followed the us credit rating downgrade, but frankly they were not nearly as strong as the last two days.
Asians are seeing all this mahem in Europe and the USA and seeing ominous signs in China's economy. They have no place to turn except PMs.
All the newly made million and billionaires are not going to sit on fiat or equities while we can all see now the shit entering fan. Holding foreign fiat is the bigger risk, the CHF showed that.
Anybody honestly think that USD are a great hold right now? I would be as nervous as a cow at an abbatoir, holding USD. The slightest sign of a long term plan, any plan, even a bad plan in Europe will see the USD plumett as fast as it rose.
OH an don't forget the black swan, something out of the blue, unexpected, unimagined...the flapping of butterfly wings here or a volcanoe there, fighting over there...who knows. But still they come.
Let's see....
Double Top.
Gold declines.
Shocking? uh, no.
BUT FOLKS IT IS FORECASTING a worse scenario than 2008 with deflation hitting hard and THE POTENTIAL for a double figure negative print on GDP in Q1 2012....
Its a painted double top. The macro fundementals haven't changed except for the manipulation by the Fed (see below).
Tyler,
do you have any technical charts showing the fibonacci retracement level for silver ?
I saw one somewhere toward the beginning of the year and it's been bang on. I think it would be of interest to most on here.
Peace
http://youtu.be/6d9WbjEmfQY - Interview by James Turk in regard to the Pacific Asian Gold Exchange in China which is just opening and will be fully open within a short period.
My thoughts (revised):
In my opinion the proximity of the Two day Fed meeting, the G20 pronouncements and this major CME margine hike (one of a series that have singled out gold and silver over the last year) shows that this margine hike was known in advance and that the take down in gold, lead by silver (golds most efficient price lever due to tight correlation and relatively small market cap) is a sure sign that this was an all out raid by the the central banks, which are the same group offering dollar loan lines to the EU banks, with manipulative operations being implemented by the CB friends at the massive bullion and derivaties financial amalgamations. It is a clear sign of DESPERATION and I believe that it is likely part of the deal by the Fed, UK, Swiss and Japanese banks with the major EU banks that will be receiving US Dollar loans early next month to basically black mail them into selling their gold.
This had the secondary benefit to the largest concentrated short holder of silver futures and the custodian for the largest silver ETF to exit large underwater short positions below silver $36 and make big profits if my guess is correct.
Those searching for real market access to physical gold based exchanges outside the manipulative US and UK Precious metals exchange will be happy to know that the Pan American Metals Exchange is in the process of opening and while the mainstream financial press has virtually ZERO Coverage on this, it is highly significant and bullish for Gold and Silver going forward as it will begin to put a stop to the ability of the Western Monetary authorities to use the exchange margin call system to achieve their desire to use gold to manage perceptions about dollar strength and interest rates. This criminal manipulation has one upside and that is that the weak longs are finally completely out and with PAGE coming online gold and silver will demonstrate their role as real money despite every machination of an insolvent and dying global financial system based on graft, manipulation and chart painting and its attempt to change the perception that the dollar and euro are backed by nothign but unrepayable debt by making bonds and the dollar seem strong relative to gold. There is an excellen interview by Jame Turk with and Ned Naylor Leland which you can google to view on Youtube, that outlines the details of PAGE and its implications going forward as it rolls out over the next few weeks. That there is no enforcement on what is far too close a proximity between margin hike announcement and the giant sell off is a clear indication of the degree of rot and corruption in the market system in my opinion and also a clear sign that end of empire levels of desperation are at work, compounded by the increasingly and massively risky derivatives markets. My guess is we bounce of $1590 and there will be a steady climb in gold towards $2,000 as silver is now clearly in backwardization as we move into the most bullish quarter for physical demand in precious metals, the 4th quarter. Wednesday morning or sooner this should commence in my opinion. ~ Duffminster
Who are all those people here who wants to buy gold?
Well, looks like all my usual sources sold out and closed early since it's Friday. Man, just when things were getting good and exciting, here comes a weekend to stop all the insanity in it tracks. Who knows how long it will take to gin up another day like today. Haven't even figured out exactly how many buy orders I placed out there today, but I rode it down all the way. Look forward to stacking and counting soon.
Im curious what the responses would be so :
What would you consider a "good" core position in PM's ?
( And please none of that 1 bazeelion ounces crap ) - I also have no interest in knowing how much of this and that you have that is none of my business and in point of fact, when Im asked I get mildly offended for being asked. You may as well ask me how good my wife is in the sack. Its none of your business. Im just curious what the forums thoughts are on this.
I have about 25% of my wealth in gold and silver bullion. Gold and silver in equal $ value when purchased some time ago now.
Also have small positions in 3 minor pure silver miners in Aust and in one minor Gold miner. AYN CCU SLV IGR
The rest is cash and property. Rates in Aust are 5.6% the last time I rolled some stuff over. My superannuation fund is in 100% cash and has been for a year and makes about 5% plus tax breaks on income.
Sitting on dry powder also for some more in the PM miners in Aust.
Making sure that mines are located in Australia so not subject to geopolitical risk if SHTF in some African countries. And making sure they dont have significant borrowings..
60-40; PMs-commodities
I usually have half my money in cash and half of my monie in PM. I use the cash as a way to continually buy PM. I got into the market at prices much lower than here so when I buy the big dips I usually go for broke, but I do buy small amounts continuously.
I also don't think of the cash as wealth, I think of it as dry powder. I also like to keep cash with my PM. No way am I going to lose my dry powder because of a bank run.
10% in PMs is considered a conservative diversified position.
I'm 10% PMs 5% stocks 85% real estate,
Anyone catch this (that is what I get for driving from Atlanta)...
http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/?id=483329
THE east China city of Wenzhou is battling its own subprime crisis after seven local business owners fled recently, leaving thousands of employees in a state of shock and enormous unpaid loans in hundreds of millions of yuan.
China's fine!
Yes China is looking good ...like Europe in fact... and America, that's looking real good too
It's time to spank Blythe real hard...
Me first!
Step right up! The more, the better!
Luke a good space monkey I backed up the truck and filled it with silver today.
At NWTM it took five minutes of speed dialing and a stated one hour wait on hold to finally get an out of breath frazzled sales agent.
BTFD monkeys!
What are your opinions or guesses on how low silver will go? It is at 30.94 at apmex right now. If I buy 20 oz it will be $37.11 an oz. Is this just a temporary downer or will it go lower do you think? I don't have a clue. I just listen to what everyone else says. It seems to have worked so far.
You may as well be buying numismatics from Goldline headless - Thats insane.
Well, I got the $37 figure from after their fee. When you buy only 20 ounces you don't get the $3.99 over spot. So, where else can you get 20 ounces of silver for less.
http://store.scottsdalesilver.com/product/5/10-Oz-Scottsdale-Stacker-Silver-Bar
With Free Shipping! Been using these guys for several months now
provident metals, gainesville coins
double post...sorry too much cabernet. hiccup.
Silver Eagles
crash JPMorgue, buy silver
local pawn or coin dealer...take cash
We are tesing the old low.
You're paying a six dollar premium? WTF?
I haven't done it yet. I'm just going from Apmex's silver eagles. If you buy 20 of them they are $37.11 each. I can't buy 500 of them. Is there a place you can get 20 ounces for less? The only dealer in town will charge me more.
Buy junk, they shouldn't charge you more than $2 over. You can find some somewhere at that price.
Premiums suck.
It'll be going up Monday but will stay below 36 for the Morg's shorts fer a spell.
rumor of eastern europe cental bank selling?......Which central banks would be selling their gold? on open market vs selling to another central bank?
I know what she did this summer !
http://blythemasters.blogspot.com/ <-- Blame this monster for this awesome Fire sale
I paid 32.46 this morning with premium and shipping. 5oz bars by the way.
WHERE???? Can I get only 20 ounces at that price?
Northwest Territorial Mint.
I'll check, but everytime I go there, they want more than apmex.
I think you just pay more when you order less quantity. But I can only get 20 ounces. Maybe 26.
You mean thank her???
Yes check, cuz that's too damn much, hell of a lot less premium with the >1oz bars (5''s & 10's for example), and the object is to remove as much phys as possible. I suggest leaning that direction.
Open thread - 20th anniversary of Nevermind and twenty years since I saw the best live show ever (seen many more live bands but none surpassed). Nirvana 1991 Montreal. Yes I'm getting old!