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Gold Matches USD Weakness As Silver Jumps
Equity and credit markets traded in a narrow range with late day ebullience (as VIX collapsed but we note implied correlation did not) pushing them to marginally new multi-month highs and tights respectively. The markets tracked one another very closely as did HYG (the high-yield bond ETF) but into the close HYG sold off quite notably (relative to the day's action). Financials staged a late-day advance (responsible largely for the move in the index along with Energy names) as average trade size picked up right at the end suggesting covering at the end. The relatively calm in equity, credit, and FX markets (especially post Europe's close) was not at all evident in the commodity markets where Silver jumped dramatically (up over 8% on the week) while Gold gently pushed higher (+1.7% matching USD's weakness on the week). Oil was the week's biggest loser (down 0.5%) as Copper clung to 3% gains on the week. Treasuries ended the week at their high yields (30Y +19bps) with the curve considerably steeper (and 2s10s30s up nicely) which supported risk assets broadly as opposed to oil's weakness (and stability in FX carry pairs) which did not.
Commodity divergence was the theme today as Silver took off and oil did not. Ever get the feeling that as much as they try to pressure one market down or up, that liquidity squirts out somewhere...
FX markets ended with the EUR 2% higher vs USD on the week, JPY unchanged and SEK a notable winner up 3%. AUD rallied today vs USD back in line with USD overall weakness on the week.
but equity and credit markets stayed in very close proxiomity as risk was clearly on. Stability in the last day or so (amid rising average trade size) may suggest we are topping but any good news on the Greek PSI deal (no matter how totally spun it is) will probably lead to a pop given perceptions of downside risk here (and we note that the continuous ES is very clsoe to seeing the 50DMA cross above the 200DMA which is sure to garner much attention once it does). The late-day jump in financials and dump in vol may reflect mostly options run offs but its tough to fight this tape - even though the number of canaries in this coalmine continue to rise.
Charts: Bloomberg
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At least he was honest about one thing:
ROTFL...you stupid idiot. A biofilm is NOT in ANY way analogous to a human city.
Humans in cities consume the MOST resources per capita! In fact, that is what WEALTH IS.
Literally EVERYTHING you say is factually wrong and stupid!
I see, so a person living in an apartment uses more energy for heat than someone in a country home? You know, an apartment that has only one or at most three sides exposed to the outside weather, versus five for a standard country home?
Travelling 20 miles to town to buy goods uses less energy than walking to the corner store? Or taking the subway along with 10,000 other people?
Honestly Trav, your idiocy is stunning. Would you just shut up and admit that you are wrong. There is no shame in it. Only a fool beleives himself always right.
did you SAY "a person in an apartment"????
NO, you claimed that development of CITIES leads to LOWER resource consumption when the EXACT OPPOSITE is true! Civilization and "progress" lead to MORE energy consumption per capita.
The cost to heat the fucking living space is ONE little piece of energy consumption, IDIOT.
But, AGAIN, when your stupid statements get blown out of the water, you just change the subject and say something even MORE stupid.
It's dumb because nothing will ever peak? So 50 years from now, we'll be producing 200 million barrels of liquids per day?
Peaks are either transient, moot, or we're all dead. Transient peaks are surpassed eventually due to higher prices opening up new production. Moot peaks mean the technology that was reliant on the resource is obsolete, like whale oil for lighting. We're all dead means, well, we all died, so no-one wants anything. As everyone hasn't died before, one can reasonably make the assumption that any production peaks we see are transient or moot.
Note that we rely on oil primarily for transportation (it is easy to move and energy dense) and as a feedstock for production of chemicals. The former can be replaced with any substance or device of similar energy density and ease of "refueling". The latter can be replaced with agricultural waste products, increased recycling efforts, etc. The point is that the market tends to take care of these things, when we let it. There is no point to running around screaming about "peak this" or "peak that". Instead, we should be addressing the root problem, government interference in the economy. Death worshippers like Trav claim that there is "nothing anyone can do", implying that the only future that can be is "we're all dead". But that's just dumb, especially given the fact that there already EXIST so many alternatives. Civilization decline because of peak oil production combined with regulatory squashing of nuclear energy does not mean we died of peak oil, any more than driving off a cliff is caused by there not being enough ground. The driver should have turned the wheel. But the government was there pointing a gun at him telling him to hit the gas.
what a collection of magical thinking, muddyheaded GIBBERISH.
NO, peaks have NOT been mooted by HIGHER PRICES opening up more production!
I have NO fucking clue where you come up with this "we're all going to die" thing...It's a CLASSIC strawman.
You have no ability to counter the argument so you MAKE UP an absurd one to counter. Alternatives to oil...like? Unicorn piss again? Personal holodecks? Pneumatic tube networks?
Good fkin god, just STFU, Cliff.
Life will go on after peak...just a lot less of the human version of it because we depend upon hydrocarbon production to keep our population numbers this high.
Rather than take action to mitigate the suffering from that, morons like you do rain dances hoping the unicorns will piss on you.
Well said.
lolwat? You are conflating my two arguments. No-one is this stupid.
Peaks are made TEMPORARY by rising prices, not mooted by them.
No clue where "we're all going to die" came from? How about your insistence on mass sterilization as the only means for humanity to survive? How about your constant abuse of anyone talking about how to survive and thrive? Christ, you can't even see your own arguments.
Also, note that the computer is already damn close to the idea of a personal holodeck. It is a means by which we can do practically anything we like virtually. But you can't use your imagination, and you don't think anyone else can either. Which is why you think everyone is going to die, and you want THEM all to die before they use YOUR precious oil. Go fuck yourself, death worshipper.
no production peak has ever been reversed by higher prices.
I don't expect you to know why that is.
The computer is NOWHERE NEAR a personal fucking holodeck, you idiot. Don't you ever like get ashamed at saying such stupid things?
Don't you ever get ashamed by hating on spics and niggers?
i don't hate anyone...you do
No, you only condemn them as races, desire to sterilize them into genocide, and othewise control them through the power of totalitarian government. But no, of course not, no hate to be found in any of that. And I hear that Joseph Mengele wept for some of his own victims as well.
Put on a 90's era virtual display and a body suit, and it will look a lot more like one.
But then, you are stuck somewhere back in the 1930's in every aspect.
I think the logic flaw is in thinking about peaks in production units / year - barrels of oil / year for example. It seems it would be more relevant to consider production on a per capita basis. Production may be maintained at 200M barrels / day but as the world population increases we will continue to move farther below the peak. A massive war or zombie apocalypse might reverse this, but not much else.
My quick search reveals this is not anything new; however, according to this link, oil per person has been flat since 1975. (fig 1)
World Per Capita Oil Consumption 1965 – 2009 (pdf/3 pages)
gfd you are stupid...just, really, seriously, stupid.
Peak production IS NOT MITIGATED BY PRICE.
Figure out the fucking difference between reserves and production, WILL YOU?
And there it is. Trav doesn't believe in economics.
That's why you should never listen to anything he says.
you don't fucking GET IT, do you?
Peak is a matter of GEOLOGY, you fucking IDIOT. It DOES NOT CARE about this SILLY THING we humans call price! It never has and it never fucking will.
You CANNOT CHEAT PHYSICS, cliff.
Now STFU.
Fat men can't get into shape. It's PHYSICS! When they run out of twinkies, they die! Physics said so!
that is the stupidest response I think I've ever read.
Yes, if fat people run out of FOOD, they eventually DIE.
Did you mean to say this? You asked someone, fess up...
THE ONLY SOURCE OF FOOD IS TWINKIES MAKE YOUR TIME.
not to mention that report is from 2009, which means the data is probably from 08. Which means silver is way up which means economical reserves are also way up. The price action also means there's probably been alot more exploration going on.
Yes, that is a very good and accurate assessment of the situation regarding silver reserves.
Note, though, that my points still hold regardless of any new mineral exploration or discoveries since that report. To reiterate and re-emphasize, mineral reserves are NOT (necessarily) a static or declining quantity, but CAN increase solely due to price increases of the underlying commodity in question.
I accept your comments and can not improve on what you have written.
"The USGS reported around 2009 that there will be no minable silver ore left by 2022."
cue the JPM report that by 2021 there will be... drumroll...
ABIOTIC SILVER (Trav will be along to tell everyone "I told you so")...
YES!
Silver production will eventually peak. Then it will receive a significant price tailwind. I've said that a million fucking times, wtf is wrong with you people?
Clearly, the problem is with everyone else, not you.
no, just people like you- shameless bullshitters and the pitiful lemmings who want to believe the bullshit.
There are several people here who tell unpopular truths, about race, about energy, about a lot of things. And cretins like you have the audacity to argue with us.
I am literally laughing out loud. Who is "US"? The voices in your head?
Or are you the Queen, and speaking in the third person?
don't front, cliff...I'm hardly the first or the last person to embarrass you on ZH.
You know, I used to know cowardly bullies like you in grade school.
Most of them dropped out and probably ended up in prison.
Is that the source of your endless racism, rage and hostility, trav --- your incarceration? And all the buttraping that ol' Otis and LeBron regularly deal out to you in the shower? Don't worry though --- rumor has it that after a few years of that kind of thing, you come to enjoy it. I have little doubt that your sentence will extend at least that long.
your incessant homoerotic fantasies could form a psych study on their own.
Did you ever hear the joke about the White Power skinhead, the close-minded narcissistic doomer, and the anger-managment-dropout who walk into a gay bar?
Their name was trav.
"No mineable silver ore left by 2022"........a mere 11 years and we will be out of ore, thats quite the statement but very obviously without credibility.
Don't forget all of the silver 'lost' in boating accidents. Happens all of the time. We really need a PSA to inform people about this all too common and unfortunate accident and how they can avoid being a victim.
I agree with the others, why are you so fuckan stupid when it comes to the topic of silver?
Just a complete douchebag.
None of the price action makes much sense day to day anymore, but I have been wondering why oil hasn't been getting smacked down by TPTB.
USA gas consumption is at a 10 year low, one giddy reason why crude is off today. The next Hormuz rumor should bring it back up.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-19/oil-gains-as-u-s-jobless-claims-fall-to-lowest-level-in-almost-four-years.html
let's see here...falling supply and falling consumption...permanent high price.
Pretty consistent with what should be expected post-peak.
You may have a point here, but I'll still junk you for good measure on your silver buffoonery/douchebaggery.
Gold & Silver bitchez!
Right u r friend.
But let us not forget that AU & AG are part of a complete breakfast.
Think FOOD bitch-chez.
Better yet...
Think SELF SUFFICIENCY ZH friends.
agree. i have something better than silver and gold.
ten acres of dirt, and a deep water well.
Thats great and don't worry about your deep water well if they start fracking near by. I just read something here on ZH pretty much popooing risk of a flame out in your sink.
Otherwise your spot on, I would pick up a couple solar cells and wind turbine.
RF
Silver, how "fractional" is it?
You may have noticed that Silver is up better than 3.5% today.
Is this in anticipation of the Sprott ETF, PSLV entering the market to purchase some 10 million ounces? Is this "settlement day" where Mr. Sprott has the funds at hand and IS making purchases?
Only Eric and his traders know the answer to these questions. The metal had better all be delivered within 4-6 weeks time. The sharks will again start circling like they did last winter and early spring as time passes if confirmation of full and good delivery is not reported.
In other words, another delivery cycle that takes up to 4 months to complete will not "sit well" with market participants.
Last time around there were rumors that some of the Silver delivered had refining dates AFTER the purchases were actually made!
Let's see if this same scenario happens again. ...And if/when this trade is completed and settled, then comes another 10 million ounces? Can this one, or the next...or the next be filled? At some point, we will find out where "the bottom of the barrel is" and the Jeff Christian's and Jon Nadler's of the world will forever have to shut up and leave town. We know from Jeff Christian's "flub" last year in CFTC testimony that the metals markets are "fractionally reserved", sooner or later we'll find out "how" fractional.
It will be much sooner than later.
www.lemetropolecafe.com
huh?
THE SELLERS are responsible to deliver the silver, NOT the Comex.
There's nothing wrong with any of this so long as silver is delivered by sellers of futures against whom the claims of longs accrue.
Is this in anticipation of the Sprott ETF, PSLV entering the market to purchase some 10 million ounces? Is this "settlement day" where Mr. Sprott has the funds at hand and IS making purchases?
The current spot price of silver and gold are derived from the fraudulent COMEX. I highly doubt Sprott is buying his physical metal through a well-known corrupt futures exchange, headed by the kleptocracy of JPM.
Looks like short covering to me.
Of course he probably buys it elsewhere... But this is a closed market: if Sprott takes 10 millions onces out of the circulation, the CRIMEX will eventually suffer as they will have less physical to cover their fraud.
hey, nope! 10-04 on that!
won't slow down his trolling tho!(see ORI)
Yeah, and the exchange has ABSOLUTELY NO RESPONSIBILITY to ensure delivery of contracts. NONE WHATSOEVER.
So. Fucking. Stupid.
Well, with Trav you are dealing with a lunatic who believes not only that the level of melanin in one's skin is the primary if not sole determinant of that person's intellectual, psychological and social development, but who evidently also believes that those with higher skin levels of melanin are solely responsible for all the sins of the world.
With such simplistic and revolting collectivist and racist "thinking", it goes without saying that "stupid" is pretty much included in the same package.
You can repeat as many lies as you want, moron, but that won't make them true.
Melanin is a consequence, not a cause.
Go back to chewing paint chips now, bitch.
And is mental retardation, collectivist thinking and racial hatred a consequence, or a cause, of your ZeroHedge posting history?
racial hatred? WTF?
How do you get that from my wanting to help failed races to succeed?
Idiots like you will go the way of the dodo bird. It is inevitable. Reality invariably crashes your party and shows you to be a naked fool.
There is no way around it, akock.
Oh my fucking God.
Can you be any more pathetically funny --- and horribly disgusting at the same time?
I couldn't make shit like that up if I tried.
Behold the "non-racism" of trav --- "really, I only want to help THE FAILED RACES!!"
LOLOLOLOLOL
what's the problem, you don't want to help them? what's wrong with you? You totally lack compassion and empathy.
Can we all chip in and get you that medication you so desperately need?
Trav+help=compassion and empathy? WTF.
Where's Rod Serling?
"Help" through sterilization.
And you wonder why people hate you.
animals with genetic limitations require genetic enhancement.
Nobody dies.
Too bad genes don't have nearly as much of an effect on IQ as childhood disease.
But you wouldn't understand that, since you got the AIDS from your uncle when you were three.
childhood disease is preventable. So are bad genes.
What happened to you can be prevented. Nobody need be that stupid.
Yes, childhood disease is preventable. WIth resources. Having a 90% die off is not conducive to that.
But what do you care about consequences as long as you have your precious oil?
tmosley
Yeah, and the exchange has ABSOLUTELY NO RESPONSIBILITY to ensure delivery of contracts. NONE WHATSOEVER.
TM, when these poor schmucks call up to convert, and hear those fateful words...............WE can't make good on phyizz delivery(and WE don't have to, Na na na na na naH, we're sending Berniebuks), the Wails of fools will echo all the way to Valhalla.
the problem with the mosely-clavens of the world is that they think they're smart.
The exchanges already have mechanisms in place that specify counterparty rights in the event that the SHORTS cannot deliver on contracts.
Yes, the exchange has NO RESPONSIBILITY to deliver the metal. It will elect to if it has sufficient supply on hand that has been delivered BY SHORTS TO IT. Otherwise, it has alternatives, including forcing longs to lease to shorts for redelivery, or mandatory cash settlement.
So delayed delivery or default.
Hurp, dat wunt hav nuh fect on da silber at all.
total default has already happened on other metals.
The LME had nickel delivery fail several years ago. The world did not end, the shorts just took it up the ass. The exchange FORCED the longs to lease supply to shorts.
Nobody is going to allow a paper squeeze like the Hunts did. They will crush it, as they have repeatedly.
but, let's set that aside for the time being.
Your ORIGINAL reply seemed to claim that the Comex HAD a responsibility to deliver. Now that I have blown that (and you) out of the water (again) by pointing out the stupidity of your statement, you have AGAIN changed the subject to something about "it not having an effect on silver."
That it would or would not have an effect on silver was NOT AT ISSUE. The argument, in case you forgot, was whether COMEX has a responsibility to deliver metal. It does not. It has contract language IN PLACE insulating it from default.
So, when faced with this, you just think you can migrate off onto some strawman and get away with it? Listen up, bitch: if you want to stop getting shown up SHUT YOUR MOUTH. Simple as that, STFU.
Just fuck you already, you revolting, racist, disgusting piece of filth troll and would-be bully.
Your blind rage, cowardice and unreason are once again on parade for all to see.
Dance, racist troll-clown, dance for the (virtual) audience!
You never disappoint in that regard, anyway.
are you married to this ass clown so that you feel the need to defend him all the time? that's IT, isn't it? That would explain a lot of the homo shit you say.
Which one of you is the bitch?
Sorry, I can't understand a word you're saying with that big black cock in your mouth.
The exchange DOES have a responsibility to deliver the metal. Sorry, that's the way it is. Just because someone murdered someone once doesn't mean that it is legal to kill people. A default is a default is a default.
Add in the fact that there is just plain no fucking silver, and you have a powder keg.
Why don't you go cry to your wife...oh, sorry. :(((((
you didn't read the prospectus, DID YOU?
Stop talking shit, stop babbling, stop weaseling and then GO AND DO IT.
Ok, give me a link to the mythical prospectus of the exchange.
Pretty sure exchanges don't issue prospecti. Also, pretty sure you are talking out of your ass more than 90% of the time.
DZ--this is why you own the physical and not the futures...isn't that obvious to everyone here? Trade em short run or even the slv/gld/etc., but own the physical for that fateful day...
and own the physical does not mean sprott or any other custodied account...it means hold it in your hands, physically.
did you read the prospectus, moron?
Might wanna.
Or, hell, you can see what the LME did when nickel shorts couldn't deliver.
But, then again, no...keep talking shit out of your backside regarding things about which you know next to nothing and harbor nothing but erroneous perceptions. It's amusing to make fun of you.
Remember when?
Go back to 2005... there was much talk by the Google bulls. They were so confident about which would hit $500 first, Google or Gold?
Jim Sinclair was considered as a "whacko" because his price objective for Gold was $1,650. He is still with us and to his credit, he has selflessly propped up many "weak kneed" precious metals investors along the way.
$1,650 Gold and $600 Google...Any significance here?
Gold, the barbaric, non interest bearing, costly to hold and useless "commodity" that you can't eat, drink, or use has outperformed Google 3 to 1!
Google was on track to take over the entire world back in 2005... weren't they?
If Google grew according to projections, they would be larger than all the world's GDP combined! Google, until last night was THE darling of Wall Street with the exception of Apple. Yet Gold and Silver have grossly outperformed.
"Normally" if Wall Street sees something outperform... especially for 11 years running they jump on the band wagon and begin packaging, touting, "recommending", shilling... whatever it is that's gotten hot. They "push" the easy sell. It doesn't matter if the product is "dog crap in a brown paper bag", if it's hot, they push it for all it's worth to suck the public into the bubble.
They then short it and fleece the public, ALWAYS!
This by the way is not a recent invention, it has been done 100's of times over 100's of years. It could be for a viable product or an outright Ponzi scheme. No matter, as long as a tale can be spun that the public will chase, financiers...Wall Street will try to take advantage of it.
Why hasn't Gold been shoved down people's throats by the big Wall Street firms?
It surely should be by now, it's as simple as flipping a light switch to sell this outperformer to anyone and everyone. But it hasn't happened...yet.
Understand that precious metals are an entirely "different animal" when it comes to investing.
Gold is THE direct competitor to "freely" printed monopoly Dollars.
There is a VESTED interest by anyone and everyone associated with Washington and Wall St. to discourage investors from "leaving the system" of paper and moving to the refuge of real money. "They" must keep you inside the system or the system...Ponzi scheme... fails!
"Gold is real money" but it needs to repeated over and over again because with each and every correction or pullback in price investors become "suicidal"! "Suicidal" is truly the word to use because not only do people get scared, when they do pull the trigger and "sell"... panic... not only are they losing their place on the life raft, they are jumping back onto the Titanic!
Gold and Silver have been badmouthed, obstacles to entry erected at every entrance... have been fractionally sold by mountains of paper contracts...100:1... for more than 11 years. The army of Wall St. brokers have tried to scare the bejesus out of anyone "stupid enough" to even consider investing in something so "weird, scary, volatile and downright dangerous"!
Yet, they have still outperformed!
There is nothing but fear and loathing in the Gold market, yet "they" call it a bubble because of it's "high" price.
NOTHING can be in a "bubble" until the public in general ... en masse... participates!
Less than 2% of Americans are invested in or have even held an ounce of Gold in their hand. Bubbles just cannot be blown with only 2% ! The "trade" is still rather empty and just waiting to be filled up and this will happen in an outright panic fashion. What is in the future will be MULTIPLES UPON MULTIPLES of what is past where the precious metals are concerned!
www.lemetropolecafe.com
thanks for your post. do you mind if i smoke?
Can I bum one?
ask Bubba Clinton about "smoking" & "bums"...
Nothing can be a bubble unless a bank is behind it leveraging it.
If people start buying up gold and silver on credit cards it will bubble.
Times like these remind me why I buy physical - it's real, it's in my possesion, gov't doesn't know I have it, banks don't have my cash, it looks nice, and my wife says it makes me look better.
.Gov certainly knows who bought it. If it went across the internet or a bank wire tansfer, they know.
That's why you "sell" it and keep the "receipt" for the transaction in which the person paid you cash.
Problem solved.
If I were to buy from you, or anyone, I would insist on a receipt, so when I do eventually sell, my taxes will only be on the profit. Otherwise I would have to pay taxes on the ENTIRE VALUE. It's difficult to buy and sell in the black market, and dealers need to file that 1099 thingy.
My point is I can provide a receipt as proof of sale whilst still having the actual asset I supposedly sold for when confiscation day comes a'knockin.
I'd rather owe the tax man FRN's than give them physical.
No confiscation day is coming.
The scariest thing -- so scary that even we who style ourselves rebels are afraid to face it -- is that the Perversion, that we have lived with all our lives, is getting ready to just -- vanish. Like a bad dream. Like frost in the sun. Like tears in the rain.
We will be on our own soon, with nothing to bitch about.
Make sure that you are ready for that.
Our idol, the US govt, will show itself to be a false god. Lots of teeth gnashing. We will be forced to look for welfare and support from among our friends, churches, and families and yes, God. And those sources won't tolerate parasites for long. So even the parasites will finally look to themselves (or commit suicide). We're about to be chastised as a people, my friends. Gird thyselves.
Go to your local gunshow and buy/sell PMs. Yes, if you want a receipt for either transaction you can get one and it can read any value you want it to. Mostly I observe strict cash'n'carry and sometimes a trade for fabricated steel lead launchers, all cemented with nothing more than a friendly smile and look in the eye over a handshake.
amen to that...
Precisely my friend.
Cheers.
unless you live in a country like australia where you lose 20% in capital gains tax. Then thats called fraud and you go to jail.
The government is your friend.
http://content.scholastic.com/content/media/products/18/0439502918_bw460...
Silver Bitchez! Hi Ho Silva!
Paper tards go vote for Newt. Bwahahahahaha!
Looks like Silver just hit a bunch of stop losses for shorts
$2 of silver for every $1 of gold, bitchez.
One paradox : even tough there is far less silver available than gold, one handicap Silver needs to overcome to become an alternative store of value is its low price. If you want to store 1 Million USD in Gold, that is rougly 20 bars of 1 Kg= 20 KG with you can carry in your backpack. The same 1 Million USD in silver will represent 1 000 kg, not so easy to carry... once this effect is overcome (maybe around 300 USD/Oz, but still 100 kg..)) then we will probably have some kind of hyperbolical rise
Gold will be the store of VALUE. Silver will the medium of EXCHANGE.
evolution doesn't go that way. People PREFER paper money. You can't run it backwards. eDollars are preferred to cash. This is why so many people have ELECTED to trade with units of account rather than physical things.
Paper money and eMoney are not going away
.....but some physical insurance is always prudent.
HAHAHAHAHA!!!
I guess the gold standard between the period of the French Revolution and 1971 was devolution then? Tell me, were the blacks in charge?
Did the blacks invade China after their fiat experiment ended in disaster, and reinstitute the silver standard?
"HUUUURRRR, I's Trav. I make shit up and try to browbeat anyone who calls me out on my dumbassery, HUUURP."
you shameless, dissembling WEASEL.
You are REALLY going to claim that the gold standard had people trading fucking silver and NOT using paper until 1971?
We've been using the FRN or US Note (and greenbacks and many other banknotes) since the INCEPTION OF THE COUNTRY, you stinking MORON.
The fucking colonies used PAPER SCRIP.
JFC, you are the biggest moron I've ever encountered.
Behold the lies and stupidity of trav on display. Your cup of ignorance overfloweth once again.
For your dishonesty-addled information, US Notes were not issued until well after the Civil War, and Federal Reserve notes not until the 1910s --- neither period coinciding with the inception of the country.
you didn't notice the other items in the parentheses, did you?
moron. Like shooting really stupid fish in a barrel.
No, you claim continuity where there was none. You know, like a desperate idiot trying to paint the world to be the way he wants it to be.
At NO POINT in this country's history was paper not traded.
In fact, for the ENTIRE HISTORY of the global british empire, they had paper. The BOE has been issuing banknotes CONTINUOUSLY since 1694. And in the US, paper money has been in primary use since BEFORE INDEPENDENCE. The Sterling Bill was the world reserve currency, a PAPER NOTE (ostensibly backed by gold).
Do you EVEN BOTHER to do a SINGLE OUNCE of research before opening your fucking mouth???
How many goddamned times is it going to take of your getting BLOWED UP AGAIN before you figure it out, dipshit?
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Seriously.
The US had free banking after the revolution, which means that individual banks issued notes. Gold was money.
I guess you think that checks are legal tender, and that one doesn't need to have money in the account to buy things, and that a system based on writing hot checks can last forever.
Christ almighty. Go see a fucking therapist.
do you or do you not GET, retard, that since the age of goldsmiths issuing warehouse receipts THAT TRADED AS MONEY, that paper has been a primary means of trade?
What the fuck do checks have to do with legal tender laws? Answer: NOTHING. This is irrelevant. It's a STRAWMAN. So is this crap about "hot checks" when the ISSUE was paper money versus the trade of ACTUAL metals (which is idiotic).
Checks ARE negotiable and CAN be traded as money. In fact, this is what USED to happen very frequently. Banknotes are another example of that. Paper money has been around CONTINUOUSLY since 1694, and in reality most of the time for 700 years prior just in Europe alone.
Good lord, you are so fucking ignorant. How many MORE times is it going to take before you shut the fuck up?
Are you part of the Tmosley/ Trav punch n judy show?
Now that Leo the last has disappeared it must feel lonely...
On the contrary, I revel in the Leo-free zone --- the quality of discussion on ZeroHedge has only been uplifted with the removal of that rabidly Keynesian, statist bastard. What he was ever doing HERE in the first place was a complete mystery to me, as his consistently pro-Establishment, pro-government, pro-corruption, pro-crony capitalism message was exactly contrary to EVERYTHING that ZeroHedge otherwise stood for and promoted. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
lol, yeah sure, the paper wasn't backed up and exchangable for gold specie until 1933.
The mint just made that shit for shits and giggles.
lol, Trav can't tell the difference between a good check and a hot check. Hey Trav, I've got a trillion dollar check, wanna cash it for me? You can have it for just $10K.
lol
Golly, Cliff, I just went out and my FRNs still buy me shit, backed or not!
Idiot.
This is 100% true.
Also of note, from the field, like it or not, when you bring 1 oz gold coins into a random country to trade them for currency... You will get a much better rate in a 1st world country like UK rather than a 3rd world country where everyone is supposed to cream their panties over the pissish metal.
This is 100% based on personal experience: Travel with gold to a large country, you get a better forex than USD Travel to a small country, you get jack shit.
Paper money is not going away
lol, sure, see how long that lasts. Already forgot that Zimbabwe went back to an unofficial gold standard during their hyperinflation.
Just because some ignorant rube doesn't give you his whole farm for a shiney coin doesn't mean that there will never be a gold standard again. The country rubes in China wouldn't accept anything but paper money or barter, but that didn't stop them from taking up a silver standard after the issuing dynasty collapsed.
you'll get an even worse rate for silver elsewhere, shitbrain
Says the ignorant rube.
Christ, you haven't paid one fucking bit of attention to what I have been saying this whole fucking time. I'M NOT TRADING SILVER FOR DOLLARS, YOU DUMB FUCK. I don't give a single shit about what rate some rube will give me, because I won't take him up on it unless I have a clear opportunity to change the offer into more silver.
You're the rube in any transaction
And you're the lube which causes every thread in which you are involved to slide into pointless argument, distraction and divisive, hateful bickering.
I wonder how much you are paid to undermine honest discussion here, troll?
dude. Don't flatter yourself. What you guys are doing isn't "discussion." You shamefully try to quash any dissent. You want this to be your little club. And if that doesn't happen, you become a BITCH and try to get people banned. It ain't gonna happen, got it?
Nothing honest about you.
Sorry, are you talking about yourself?
I have never seen anyone attack anyone else as rabidly as you attack ANYONE who disagrees with you, and you rarely use any form of fact to make your arguments. You just ask "how many times do I have to tell you?" and call people names.
And yet you still wonder why your wife left you. Surely it's all someone else's fault.
Dude, in Zimbabwe they washed off raggedy old $1 FRNs and hung them up to dry on clotheslines.
Can you not reconcile the fact that gold may very well become more valuable due to peak production and debt default, with the fact that people born after 1970 will still prefer a paper or digital currency due to its sheer transactional facility?
Or is it all a binary option for you?
Gold is Gold and Paper is Paper, and never the twain shall meet
Eh? Who the fuck says that? We had paper notes that could be traded for gold at any bank window for more than a hundred years in this country. Paper is only divorced from physical reality in a system where the rule of law is ignored. You know, like today. Reinstitute the rule of law and a gold standard where any citizen can freely exchange notes for gold at a fixed rate, and I will happily move most of my money back into the system.
And yes, Zimbabwe used foreign currencies as well. But you didn't catch them using foreign currencies that were in the grip of hyperinflation. They did, however, use gold.
Why are you arguing with me, then?
All I did was agree with the statement that paper/ digital money is not going to disappear. It's not.
Also offered the anecdotal observation that you can actually get a tighter exchange rate at the retail level converting gold into, say, GBP, than converting USD into the same... IF you're in a 1st world country. Have you found otherwise?
Gold is for princes. Silver is for people.
But because there is so little silver, and because its rise will be so much faster than gold, it will overshoot its proper value. Its rise will end somewhere between 10::1 and 3::1, before it starts to correct.
It will end up between 12::1 and 15::1, but the correction will take as much as a generation.
My grandchildren, if I am fortunate enough to have them, will never believe me when I tell them about the discussions and arguments I had with the people on the legendary ZeroHedge.
Silver bells...
It's strip club time come September...
That was in tune and on the beat. Nice.
you make it rain with silver and you gonna hurt a bitch
Huh?
Let me take down my Travtardo-to-English dictionary, and attempt a translation:
"My name is Trav, and I like to bitch, because the rising price of silver hurts me almost as much as the constant rain of red arrows."
All the commodities ready for a blastoff once Bernanke and the QE doves announce their massive QE/printing/dollar trashing party.
We should see oil really take off once the Fed gets their printing party going.
This is a green light for all companies to start raising prices for more profits.
I want to throw all my silver on the bed and roll around in it.
I put it on my table whilst I work. It gives me motivation and reminds me why I'm doing what I'm doing.
I like to put it in a wooden chest, wear an eyepatch and a funny hat, and play pirate.
Oh you lol
I found out the gf doesn't like to be called 'beer wench.'
I like to keep one ounce in my pocket, when I walk outside in the dark of night.
Ok now I almost pissed myself LOL
who says us coin clutchers are fringe?
this seems perfectly normal to me!
All this talk about silver gives me a funny feeling inside.....I am going to go look at mine to help fight the urge.
What if your urges are smarter than you are?
Don't dream it. Be it.
It depends on what head that urge is coming from.
the dow and nasdaq/S&P diverge? haha.
correlation trade is oil and this is sell. some fool bought fat on the dow. and europe is now correcting etc etc etc
closed out spec... thanks for the quick cash, silver bears
Shucks. The silver I have been accumulating for the last three years won't buy me anything at the store because they won't accept it as payment, and I can't eat it. What good has it done me?
You can give it to me for Valentine's Day and skip the chocolates
Good because I'd rather keep the chocolates.
All kidding aside. I have a couple of investments that may be better than silver.
Cocoa powder, and black pepper.
Do you know how much that stuff is worth, when we in the north can't get it anymore? Do you know how much it costs now? Do you know how the nobility in Europe used to pay for black pepper? ( And if they could have tasted cocoa -- oh my. More so. )
Do you know how well it stores, in a cool dark place?
Just don't breathe any in. If you haven't done that before, the old cartoons don't do it justice.
Phosphorus.
That seems unwise...
Sarin.