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Gold Surge and Equity Purge Post-Payrolls... Update: Gold Unsurging
UPDATE: Sell-off gathering pace now. WTI lagging a little more now at $84.6 -$1.2 and ES back at this week's lows as Gold has retraced all its knee-jerk gains
The initial knee-jerk reaction is a closing of the hope-gap between stocks and gold as S&P 500 e-mini futures are down 6pts or so from pre-NFP and Gold is up $11. Treasury yields are dropping relatively fast to the lows of their recent range under 1.56%. For now modest reactions in IG and HY credit (but markets are thin there this week). The USD is just a little weaker and WTI crude is limping lower but not spectacularly. European sovereign spreads are back at their highs.
The QE-hope gap between stocks and gold has been closed on this print and Treasuries are seeing yields drop to recent range lows...
and ES is now at cliff's edge post EU Summit...
30 mins in - markets are not happy and Gold's reaction spike is fully retraced... as all markets drop together now...
Post-NFP levels (30mins): HY $96.35, IG 112, ES 1350, Gold $1590, 10Y 1.55%, USD 83.03, WTI $84.48
Post-NFP levels (15mins): HY $96.5, IG 111.5, ES 1352, Gold $1607, 10Y 1.559%, USD 82.85, WTI $85.23
Pre-NFP levels: HY $96.6, IG 110.5, ES 1358, Gold $1596, 10Y 1.586%, USD 82.88, WTI $85.72
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Not so fast. Gold went up til 1605 and now it's dropping again (1594!?)
Dude........pace yourself.
Come on Ben Shalom shell out some of that hot QE cash and give me some cheap gold!
And.... it's gone!
Big banks: "must...keep...gold...down" (or the jig is up)
Ben Shalom does not pay retail for his gold.....he uses your money to drop the price first.
repost from
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-07-06/are-banks-raiding-allocated-gold-accounts#comment-2591407
playing musical chairs with paper gold can make some big bucks, especially with $20 plus movements in an hour. While the fucking banks can front run the moves because they make them.
In the gold world of musical chairs the little guy (you and I) can bungee a chair to your ass by buying physical gold.
fuck Lieborgate. The real manipulation happens in the metals markets.
I think on the matter of the Gold price, the Tylers are frequently ejaculating prematurely.
The jig is already up. They are just pounding sand now.
And when does it end? Every time gold rises, they knock it back down.
It's not going to change what I do, but it is disgusting to see the predators win, again, and again, and again.
When does reality re-emerge?
Yeah, I keep asking that same question: When? How long?
Unlike some, I don't have three or thirty years or forever to wait for some long-foretold Great and Glorious New Day when their jar full of Mercury dimes will really be worth something.
ALL my gold and silver (mostly silver) is physical. So people keep telling me I shouldn't even care when its value plunges in an instant, "because I still have it." (Yes, and what a pain it is, dealing with all the storage and security hassles of my own little private Fort Knox.)
Well, if someone's house loses $30k or $300k of its value in a day or an hour, does that bother them? After all, "they still have it."
Jim
It wouldn't bother me, because houses are tangible. Digits on a screen or pieces of printed paper do not represent the same level of tangibility. I get that the "$" can still be used as a medium of exchange for goods, but how confident are you in the value of "$"? The fact that the "$" trade price for an ounce of gold swings so incredibly wildly is making you question the value of your gold and silver. Flip that on it's head and consider that it's proof the USD is what is actually unstable. There is no real volatility in gold, gold is gold is gold, forever and ever. The volatility is only in the fiat exchange rate for that gold.
Well, I wonder. For years I heard that "An ounce of gold would buy a fine suit of clothes in ancient Rome, and it still will today." The implication being that the buying power of gold remained stable across vast gulfs of time, while fiat currencies' buying power fluctuated wildly.
I checked and discovered that was misleading example. It turns out that an ounce of gold in the Roman Empire of the First or Second Century A.D. had about the equivalent buying power of $5,000 USD today, NOT about $1,600 USD. And the silver-to-gold ratio was a lot different then too. More like eleven ounces of silver to one ounce of gold, instead of nearly sixty-to-one today. So an ounce of silver then had about the buying power of $400 to $450 USD today.
Of course, I have no idea what a fine suit of clothes cost back then. Maybe it was the quivalent of $5k. In fact, I have no idea what a fine, tailored, "bespoke" men's suit would cost today. I've never shopped for one. Never expected to have one. I have a cheap, black, Reservoir Dogs -looking suit I wear to funerals. I bought it off the rack at Wal-Mart seven or eight years ago. I don't remember what I paid for it. It looks like something they'd give you when they let you out of prison, if they still do that.
Yes, houses are tangible. But if you had to sell yours tomorrow, wouldn't you rather get $300k for it than $30k?
Jim
It'll get weirder. Much weirder by the end of today. People don't respond well to getting screwed.
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-07-06/are-banks-raiding-alloca...
The cheap bastards won't even take us out to a restaurant and then a movie!
The banking cartel was definitely at this critical juncture preventing any rise on gold and silver after the bad jobs data.... interesting that gold went up 10$ right before the announcement and then it gets smashed back down..... what gives
You might want to update that WTI number captain.
the boot has since been put on gold.. nothing new here
They usually wait more than 15 minutes
it's called deflation- look it up
So gold down more than ES and Nasdaq (which have had way more gains this year) makes sense in your deflationary world?
Gold round tripped the move already.
Nobody wants paper IOU's is the simplest explaination of this chart.
Means the Unfortunate 500 are going to get it in the ass, deep, hard and long until they go Nortel, BreX, Tyco...pick your shit show stock here.
Anyone see the difference?
The Canadian dollar lost ground on Friday after the government said the nation's employment was little changed in June,
Means we are going to see our costs in gas jump while the Central banks stick play the exchagne rates.
Isn't doing much good against physical currencies. no clue why you guy even use markets. Want to know the price of gold or silver, call a pawn shop, kitco, jewelry stores...that's the real market price. The true swap value.
Oz of silver is 35-40 depending
Gold is still holding the 1700 line.
Only MBA believe PM's are worth the ticker rate. Try finding someone other than a bank to deliver on it...
If they actually have real anything in the vault.
Need some money to get medical care, buy food or pay the mortgage? See how much those pawn shops, kitco, jewelry stores will pay you for your gold or silver. "That's the real market price." We are just sheep, waiting to be shorn.
Yeah. You said it, brother. As far as I'm concerned, I've got far more silver than is good for me. Right now a Silver Eagle ain't worth a hell of a lot more than a stainless steel plumbing washer. I'm starting to think the bandits in The Wild Bunch didn't get such a bad deal in the opening robbery after all.
Hell, I'm not even waiting. I've already been shorn, but good.
Jim
Gold spot price today: $1582
APMEX bid price (1 oz gold bar): $1588
Gold futures: $1584
They all track pretty closely.
Just curious, where you seeing gold @ $1,700?
So, when does "the Sack squad" step in to save the market?
PPT is already pushing around premarket, the real game time happen after the suckers run until 10:30.
They better watch it though. No volume means they'll be bag holding all the trades today. Let's see the prissy pinstripes deal with painting themselves into a corner.
Equity purge?
Wishful thinking yet again by ZeroHedge - gold has gone nowhere. Right on so much but constantly wrong on gold - time to readjust your thinking?
Gold is not important.
Spain's 10 year paper is important. 6.97%. Spreads do not tell you what you need to know. A Spanish finance minister has to fund his borrowing and he doesn't give a shit what Germany's bund rates are. He cares what he has to pay in interest, and what he has to pay in interest determines what pressure is applied to Merkel. The spreads don't pressure Merkel. The rate does. He lays it out to Merkel: I can't pay 7% interest. I will default on everything and trigger all my swaps. Ante up or else.
His number is 6.97%. Their Friday jubilation was bullshit.
one move and the spaniard gets it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_JOGmXpe5I
"Gold Surge and Equity Purge Post-Payrolls"
The day when ZH has become Marketwatch. Gold is falling again and yet ZH says it's going up.
hard to keep up with second-to-second manipulation of ALL markets and equities. head back over to Yahoo! Finance chat now -little boy-and talk about how you're buying FB on the dips
What music are we supposed to be facing btw? I keep waiting for you to actually say something more than, "Gold down, zero hedgers dumb."
My point is that too many people pretend to know what will happen without paying attention to what is happening.
Ok, so WTF is happening?
Hello? Is this thing on?
It's exactly like the manipulation Maguire was explaining in his email to CFTC, 1% immediate increase on bad jobs data, then a 2% fall from the high...
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/whistleblower-exposes-jp-morgans-silver-manipulation-scheme
If it plays out as before, the price should be over 1600 by tomorrow.
It's friday, so the price sticks until monday trade session and it gives the TPTB 36 hours to dream up some more happy horse shit
whats your guess by the end of the session ....2% off ?
The "boys" monitor Tyler's posts (along with Matt Taibbi) and send instructions to 33 Liberty to countermand any particularly poignant observation that might strike a nerve - just BTFD in gold because there is nothing else that will be standing when it all turns to shit.
bad advice imo.
So holding paper is the option?
We've seen that show before, it's been repeated hundreds of times in the western world over the past 200 years. The outcome is identical each and every time.
Print until it breaks then readjust the currency to reflect the value by issuing a new currency. Want to see a case study that is text book perfect. Here.
This is where it started.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peruvian_sol
This is where things fucked up and wrecked Peru.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peruvian_nuevo_sol
From a gold coin...to a tin plated piece of aluminium. That's what's happening. That's what always happens.
Did they rasie margin req on oil last night?
The drop came after the CME Group Inc. CME -1.75% , late on Thursday, increased margin requirements for trading crude-oil futures contracts
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/crude-retreats-further-before-payrolls-...
Look at the Kitco charts from yesterday and today.....it is an exact copy...wierd...machines cannot reproduce it this perfectly...
WOW! talk about in your face!
ZH may have spoke too soon on this one. Bankers have complete control of the metals price right now since the brainwashed sheeple have been scared out of the space.
EUR fell off a cliff.
OOOOOOHHHHHH the sell off is coming!
oooooohhh.....im scared!
bunch of bullshit....the Fed backstops this fucking market as they wish....you cant go long or short.....UNPOSSIBLE MARKET.
"if the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!"
Knee jerk reaction provided by long term investors who know QE3 is coming. Is there any doubt? What I would like to know is why isn't QE3 "priced in" to equities? Everything else seems to be.
They can f*uck with our physical PM's all they want, we just keep buying more while its cheap.
I already bought all the PMs I could afford, and then some. I don't have any money left to buy any more PMs with. I'm already "all in," as they say. The question now is, how am I going to pay my bills? And my disabled Dad's bills?
In Roman times I would have been moderately rich with the weight of PMs I have, because PMs had a LOT more purchasing power then. Now, even though I have a great deal of it, I live in a squalid, roach-infested hovel in a dangerous slum. I have no health insurance. I haven't seen a dentist in years.
At the current market value of silver and gold, even if I sold it all it wouldn't get me out of this. And I'd be selling mostly at a loss too.
Jim
hey jim your one of those troll botts.
silver is money, now take care of your dad you dick!
I am? It's news to me. I'm certainly not a 'bot. Define "troll." People fling that epithet around too freely. It's a lot easier to call people names than to prove them wrong. I am taking care of my Dad, or I'm paying for him to be taken care of. It has wiped out the family fortune, bled us dry. All that's left now is the gold and silver, which keeps depreciating like crazy.
I really believed silver (and gold) was money, not long ago. But I've had my faith shaken pretty badly. I don't report this to try to shake anyone else's faith. Actually, I wish someone would tell me something (besides the usual stale cliches) to restore my faith -- to "help my unbelief," as the saying goes. I wish someone would give me some reason to think the price suppression/manipulation would fail soon, as opposed to some time in the far future.
Jim
Be less fucking stupid next time?
Well, I do think now that I was stupid to invest so heavily in PMs, or for that matter to invest in anything at all. I would have actually done better, at least over the two-and-a-half-year time span involved, to have just let all those green FRNs lie there idle and drawing close to zero interest. Over the time span involved, inflation has been negligible, as far as I can see. Hyperinflation remains a bogey beyond the horizon, or a sea serpent out there near the edge of the flat world. So if I'd invested in nothing, at least I would have lost almost nothing.
Jim
The only way out of this manipulation is to corner these fuckers with their fucking collateral: US Treasuries. I guess the CEOs of the ratings agencies have been all received death threats, in case they decide to downgrade the US Treasuries.
The present universal demands that "the fiscal cliff be averted" all derive from people who are living in the past of "growth solves everything."
The truth of the matter is far worse than they know. If the Sequester is undone and taxes do not rise and spending cuts do not happen the agencies ARE going to cut AAA. They will follow S&P's lead. They avoided only because Congress and the President assured them there was a plan.
If the plan is undone, AAA will be lost and pension funds WILL have to sell US Ts. Unless . . . the agencies are bought off. That's the most likely scenario. There is no growth so yields are going negative.
US$ up, gold down ... I know that most people here don't agree (even though it is a fact).
http://www.finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=DX&p=w1
http://www.finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=GC&p=w1
Facts.
Interventions in the currency market are well known.
Interventions in the gold market were proven.
Manipulation of the yield curve is called Twist.
Recently even the manipulation of the LIBOR was admitted.
And here the braindead are calling the ridiculous reaction of Gold's downward manipulation after the numbers a market reaction...
Nothing to see here, sheeple. The USD and treasuries are the true safe haven - SELL your gold, it's a barbaric relict and you can trust in your NWO-government. We have free markets. Nothing to see here, folks.
The courrpt US markets are beging to fail. No one trusts anything and this game of charts makes no fucking sense in the world of reality when the banks are folding and the global economy is collapsing.
Anybody who has any doubt about how this all ends should read the first chapter of 'Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds' on the 1720 Mississippi bubble. It may take a while, but once confidence in paper of any kind starts to evaporate, it disappears really quickly. And efforts to prop up confidence in paper and devalue the backing metals tend to backfire and end badly. Maybe the modern propaganda and manipulation machines can change that, but I expect the best they're just deferring the invevitable collapse in paper assets of all kinds.
Each one of these so called economic numbers to me if I was a foreign investor in the USA...it would signal to me to get out faster ....I would be a seller of treasuries..and a buyer of "things"...paper out..things in...I think this is what the Chinese are doing....they are buying things....farmland in Africa...gold...rare earth metals...iron ore..etc....military too...
..because banks are building positions in Gold, they own mines, and like with Oil, they're gaming the price - which is why Central Banks are giving them credit. ...Neither Central Banks, nor Politicians, nor Banks are interested in sorting out the Soverign Bond Crisis, they are interested in loading up with Gold. ..The architecture will crash, and whoever has the most gold will end up on top, that's their interest. Sorting out the Bond Crisi would result in some loss of sovereignty... Hear me, Power is not Control. The Banks will give up all their power in doing this. Their Fiat, their Gold, their systems, will be Nothing. ...I am not against the Banks, I'm buying physical at spot, but there is work to be done, and these wretched banking masons have, and I can say this, fallen into the Abyss.
Not an expert elf or anything, but isn't that one nasty looking head N shoulders on that ES s&p futures chart?....yikes.
The correlation of systematic Gold takedown before/during the labor statistics publication is too high to take away any doubt that the gold price is not manipulated.
If silver drops below $27, it'll retest $25 and possibly $20.
And then you won't find magical $20 silver anywhere.
You guys from the 'North', so to say, have it good.
In Brazil is almost impossible to buy fine silver for less than double the spot price.
Stop caring about prices and keep stacking.
Can't you buy silver in Peru? It would seem that if silver is worth twice as much in Brazil, there would be a busy smuggling market. The Peru-Brazil is long and wild. Or is this nonsense?
It looks like a great idea.
My Spanish is a bit weak, but I'm going to look for this, thank you very much.
The demand for Physical is outstripping supply.
China is very pleased that Gold unsurged. China very happy that Amerikans sold they gold. We buy big time. Amerikants buy ipads and other trinkets that China make. Sell gold teeth now if you have any and buy dollar store novelaties. We planning big virus attack against your banks once the panic begins. We get you good. Amerikans best in the world and China a developing country. Amerika Rich. China Developing. Amerika have great service economy with hair cutters, banksters. China only have manufacturing. Please support our candidates Obama and Romney. It is important that they win and conversation is framed around them. China still concerned that some of you do not tune into Faux News and CNN. CNN our favorite channel as it's the Communist News Network. Take care and enjoy the next couple of months. They the last times that the delusion of prosperity can be believed in. Chow
china LMAO
what a hoot, and Communist News Network made me pee a little!
Isn't this rather obvious?
Bad news means people (HFT) runs to safe things. Safe things being T-Bills and Gold. Well, don't want gold prices to go up, so it gets smashed down by "market forces" (you know it's the fed/government doing it). This causes a larger flow into T-bills which lowers rates and makes for cheaper financing.
Unfortunately, it also makes for a stronger USD, which means less jobs.
Less jobs means more food stamps, more "disability"/unemployment checks, less ability to do anything and..... more bad news which necessitates: more of this cycle.
And there ya have it!
But surely, all of this is China's fault or something.
Well, I am all in as they say and see that the prices keep falling.
I'll keep stacking.
The Suppression on the prices is something to behold.
It surely is something to behold. I've stacked all I can unless I win a lottery or something. I need the price suppression to end.
Jim