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Goldman: Germany Is Now On The Hook By €1 Trillion (Or 40% Of GDP)

Tyler Durden's picture


Earmuffs time for our German readers.

Goldman Sachs, in estimating the impact of tomorrow's LTRO, lets one slip, namely the fact that despite popular German expectations that European bailouts occur at the ECB level, and Germany is fairly isolated from what happens in Greece (which as of today no longer stays at the ECB, but shifts right through to the Bundesbank) thereby reducing the risk of runaway debt inflation, the true price to Germany is substantial to quite substantial. €1 trillion to be precise. Which just happens to be 40% of German GDP...

To wit:

The ECB’s second 3-year refinancing operation (LTRO) kicks-off today, with results announced tomorrow at 10:15 GMT. Around EUR200bn is expected to be drawn from (mostly small-medium) banks in the seven countries that have requested loans to be pledged as collateral through the respective national central banks (the number is obtained by applying a 2/3 haircut to a pool of EUR600-700 bn eligible credit claims). The consensus figure for the entire operation is around EUR500bn, similar to the size of the first refinancing. A higher headline number would have positive first order implications for broader markets, indicating that ‘excess liquidity’ is available to Euro area depository institutions. The focus will then shift on where such liquidity will eventually be deployed. Data for January released yesterday showed that credit to the Euro area private sector has stabilized, but not recovered after the sharp decline at the end of last year.


Staying in the Euro area, the vexed issue of the size of the so-called ‘firewalls’ remains unresolved, and will likely come up again at the Euro leaders summit on Thursday and Friday (March 01-02). The debate crystallizes the tension between ‘financial stability’ and ‘moral hazard’ that has characterized the European sovereign and banking crisis right from the start. Calls on Germany and other core states to combine the lending capacity of the EFSF and the ESM and thus provide a bigger protection against tensions in Greece are increasing. But with peripheral spreads in retreat, largely thanks to the ECB’s ‘all-you-can-take’ term funding operations, the fear in some quarters is that of removing incentives for the peripheral sovereigns (and banks) to continue deleveraging. Germany is the country that has pushed the most for PSI in Greece in an attempt to foster future market discipline, but is also the one that has the biggest stake in conditional aid programs to the periphery and seen its ‘target 2 imbalance’ vis-à-vis the EUR periphery reach almost EUR 1trn on the latest count.

So how long before fake German indignation turns real: €1 trillion in sunk PIIGS costs, €2.5 trillion, or 100% of German GDP? €5 trillion?

Or will the perpetually dangled carrot of an insolvent welfare state keep doing to trick to keep the debt slaves in their stupefied trenches in perpetuity, in a state of dazed zombification, punctuated by the occasional showing of Football (either the North Atlantic or European version).


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Tue, 02/28/2012 - 09:56 | 2203439 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The underestimation of the year thus far (but it's very early).

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:01 | 2203470 Cdad
Cdad's picture

"Underestimation" is "priced in."

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:05 | 2203480 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

They have to get the underestimation overestimated, though, to produce the critical 'upside' surprise.

€1 Trillion won't cut it. €3 Trillion in losses is probably 'baked in,' and will be announced with great fanfare, party poppers and ticker-tape.
Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:12 | 2203515 French Frog
French Frog's picture

Gott im Himmel !

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:22 | 2203588 prains
prains's picture

1 TRILLION DOLLARS (evil laugh) (pinky finger to corner of mouth)

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:15 | 2203536 cygnetsong
cygnetsong's picture

You may be overestimating the underestimation of overestimation, though.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:25 | 2203604 French Frog
French Frog's picture

That's quite clearly an understatement

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:25 | 2203870 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

I'm smart enough to know I don't know that answer.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:44 | 2203691 Nussi34
Nussi34's picture

Will vote for any anti EU anti EUR party including Nazis

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 09:57 | 2203444 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Ouch.  Tme for the Germans to march across Europe again?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:00 | 2203464 Cdad
Cdad's picture

World wide revolution is..........."priced in."

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:13 | 2203525 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Except apparently you can now do whatever you want to people, and they dont mind in the least. Guess it will take complete sudden collapse to make people realize theyve been totaly screwed.

Just think, at one time in this country, all it took was a 1% tax to cause a shooting revolution.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:17 | 2203547 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Just as all "less than expected" economic data points have been priced into markets, so too has economic collapse been priced in.  Everything is priced in.  Global fascism exported to the world via the world wide criminal syndicate known as Wall Street has saved us all.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:07 | 2203787 john39
john39's picture

yes and later the fascists will chuckle... to save humanity, it was necessary to kill off most of them.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 12:39 | 2204251 Green Leader
Green Leader's picture

The global depopulation agenda is going on full scale--not as originally planned, but with the activation of a Plan B. In this case, a worldwide cancer epidemic by means of Fukushima radiation and increased chemtrails spraying.

Those guys do have some serious power in this planet.

Hedge accordingly.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 12:40 | 2204252 Green Leader
Green Leader's picture


Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:44 | 2203962 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Someone here wrote, "fuck me running" some time ago. I think that about sums all this stuff up as well as possible.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:16 | 2203543 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

You mean "ze Americans...

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:26 | 2203884 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

The Germans won't be marching anywhere.

They'll be DANCING (YouTube)

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 13:36 | 2204484 noses
noses's picture

US we own the world anyway Americans would; they've been doing that for decades. The rest of the world learned the lesson and knows that war is even more expensive than honest work.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 09:58 | 2203445 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Um, didnt ZH mention something about this...last year?

"in a state of dazed zombification"

Loving the metaphors.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 09:57 | 2203447 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Looks like the Germans will not be getting their tax cuts this year. 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 09:59 | 2203459 Cdad
Cdad's picture

That's "priced in."

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 09:58 | 2203449 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

'Earmuffs time for our German readers.'

Shouldn't that be eyemuffs?

Anygay, German readers are too busy bleeding rectally to read anything much less Goldman's latest.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 09:58 | 2203450 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

This time, instead of Jews to the concentration camps, it should be banksters; karma is a bitch.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:39 | 2203674 frenchie
frenchie's picture


isn't that the same character ???

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:46 | 2203697 Nussi34
Nussi34's picture

And all Eurocrats & PIFGIS!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:14 | 2203807 tradebot
tradebot's picture

The Jews are the banksters...don't you know this???

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 09:58 | 2203453 Cdad
Cdad's picture

I rather think that Germany's liabilities could be raised to 10 trillion Euro's, and the market would immediately reveal that said number was "priced in."

Such is the completely debauched nature of markets...globally.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:00 | 2203462 EZYJET PILOT
EZYJET PILOT's picture

1Trillion which is then being funneled back to the banks, I am right with that statement Tyler?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:00 | 2203465 Ceteris paribus
Ceteris paribus's picture

The Germans dont care , just like everyone else , go ahead take whatever you want .

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:20 | 2203562 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Right its all good, we've got 2 fer 1 Hot Pockets at the store. All is well in the land.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:57 | 2203740 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Sheeple everywhere sayeth unto their fractional reserve bankster overlords, "help yourself to whatever you want, but please remember to turn the lights off when you leave."

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:00 | 2203472 magpie
magpie's picture

The time to short bunds is approaching ?

After all, those anti-Japan articles didn't work and Gentlemen don't dump gilts...

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:01 | 2203473 chinaboy
chinaboy's picture

Germany is Greece. They may or may not admit it. That is why they have to save Greece.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:24 | 2203597 DogSlime
DogSlime's picture

Where isn't Greece?

Sovreigns tried to absorb bank debt.  Banks just created more debt in response.  Sovreigns must borrow to pay their debt.

Is there anywhere left that is actually solvent?


Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:33 | 2203647 DutchDude
DutchDude's picture

Yep; Iceland is doing pretty well actually:

The one thing that appeals to me is that the banking sector is now "only" worth 200% GDP. That's about the lowest in the world now i guess lol.

Think i better learn how to speak islandic, then again; education there is pretty good; everybody speaks English.

Wonder how much a piece of land and some sheep will cost me over there... :)

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:02 | 2203477 The trend is yo...
The trend is your friend's picture

whats a trillion amongst good neighbors, right?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:03 | 2203478 orved
orved's picture

How about raincoat time for Merkel:


Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:04 | 2203486 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Beer hall putsch.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:27 | 2203616 trilliontroll
trilliontroll's picture

Prost !

A triilion a day keeps the default away!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:09 | 2203497 kurzdump
kurzdump's picture

Too much liquidity, he?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:12 | 2203481 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It's mighty generous of you Germans to fund the early retirements of the Piigs. And you better not gripe about it because as soon as you do the Piigs will be running photos of Germans wearing swastikas on the front pages of all their papers.Because we all know the sins of the past that we had nothing to do with are never forgotten .So get to work and goose step into line.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:53 | 2203727 trilliontroll
Tue, 02/28/2012 - 13:43 | 2204505 noses
noses's picture

The Greek Eloi should know it won't take long for the next set of Morlocks to appear for harvesting them. And then it's time for some nicely roasted piigs souvlaki…

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:04 | 2203484 Moneyswirth
Moneyswirth's picture


Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:08 | 2203490 Kevlar Akubra
Kevlar Akubra's picture

There once was a chappie called Hitler

Who wished that commitments were littler

He won over the poor

Then started world war

And today it all looks even brittler


Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:32 | 2203641 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture


Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:05 | 2203777 _underscore
_underscore's picture



There once was a leader called Merkel

Who was stuck in a European jerk-circle

They jerked & they jerked

'Til they proved it could work

Now they're jerking all over the sheeple



Tue, 02/28/2012 - 13:03 | 2204374 ONO47
ONO47's picture

Can you say FACIAL. I'm sorry, that was just wrong.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:07 | 2203492 pistvakt
pistvakt's picture

Err shouldnt that be blindfold if your reading?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:25 | 2203867 citta vritti
citta vritti's picture

"earmuffs" reference is to movie Old School, and character Vince Vaughn telling his child to cover his ears when buddies Will Ferrell and Luke Wilson start swearing 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:07 | 2203494 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

In bull parlance it's called "walking the dog." Germany has been on a leash since day one...the foodie dish is the "we will allow you to bail out your banks"--but nay..."your going to the Vetranarian instead." I say we're at the "I'm the dog and the car is now pulling into the Vet's parking lot and I'm going ape-shit phase" cuz "you phucking humans have done it to me again!"

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:10 | 2203503 Martin Silenus
Martin Silenus's picture

Ein Batzen Geld! Big bucks, bitchez!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:11 | 2203504 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Germany will go under again and Europe will return to the Thirty Years War as nation states disintegrate. Watch carefully USA - your future looks uncannily like Greece. Politicians are stuoid and merely puppets whose strings are in banker hands. We know this system is finished, what comes next could be interesting....

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:21 | 2203567 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Germany will simply be forced to 'self-sacrifice' for the sake of peripheral empire. The Petrobuck can't go down without major conflict so essentially everybody's interests are pretty much well known by now. China has played the game near perfectly. Even the Russians have caught up and are almost up to speed...

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:11 | 2203506 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

no worries. come 9:30am the /Es should, after a very brief dip, rally to glorious new highs because (as we all know)...everything is bullish and life is too too beautiful.

(I was amazed the market was allowed to dip, however briefly, into ever so slightly negative territory this morning. No doubt somebody lost their job for that error)

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:12 | 2203509 t_kAyk
t_kAyk's picture

perhaps those 160 german tax collectors should stay put

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:11 | 2203511 AU5K
AU5K's picture

Yeah, but guess who gets to bail out Germany.....  sign us up, Ben and Barry.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:11 | 2203513 chubbar
chubbar's picture

EU telling Germany "you sure have a purty mouth"!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:12 | 2203516 Alex Kintner
Alex Kintner's picture

Uh oh, there's gonna be a lot of Sour Krauts when this gets out.
But of course, This Time is Verschieden.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:12 | 2203519 monopoly
monopoly's picture

This will stop at some point. That is when people will care. Still time to get your house in order and prepare. Still some time.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:34 | 2203650 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

In the meantime, Ag is now over $36 t oz.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:13 | 2203526 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Rehypothecated earmuffs can do ANYTHING.  It says so right here in the PowerPoint deck from Goldman.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:13 | 2203529 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

so is everyone happy ? anyone happy ?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:14 | 2203531 dervish
dervish's picture

here in Germany people dont give a damn for now, because we do not feel anything missing in our own pockets, or so the plebs think. Germany only sits in the first class of this euro-titanic, no difference to the rest of europe. looks like Merkel goes all-in, it's victory and business-as-usual or defeat and start-the-ponzi-with-another-fiat-currency all over again. people in charge dont give a damn about the money, they only want to preserve their status and influence. it's a power-struggle thats long lost to the banksters. mafia-bankers and democrat-ideologist formed the perfect global fascist government. that too, nothing new, huh? I'll back to sleep and keep polishing my silver

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:15 | 2203537 Atlantis Consigliore
Atlantis Consigliore's picture

Ein Svie Drei:   Deustchmark,   Uber Alles.  LOL.

turn turn kick turn,...Bailouts or deflation, printing, or that Central bank disaster

Keep it Gay,  
schttooped under ass make it gay, vots a trillion for our greek restaurant friends.....wash does deutshmarks well.




Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:16 | 2203541 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Fight against banker occupation, get a real army and seceed from the Union. Pretend you are Wyoming, Germany. you can be the little train that could.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:16 | 2203542 Dermasolarapate...
Dermasolarapaterraphatrima's picture

Germans are hard working. An old saying applies here:

"The horse that works the hardest gets whipped the most."


Also applies to the Middle Class in the New World.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:24 | 2203595 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"the road to hell is paved with good intentions." that was a German who told me that... many years ago.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:14 | 2203808 xela2200
xela2200's picture

and carries the heaviest load.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:19 | 2203552 vh070
vh070's picture

We're all in the hook one way or another by the looks of things.  The timing just differs.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:18 | 2203553 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Odd that the nation that is considered the most conservative in the EU has the highest average leverage in its banking system, at 21.3x (Germany).  They are followed by France (16.8x) and then comes Italy, Spain and Greece, whose banking systems are levered 10.7x, 10x and 9x respectively.  These are country wide numbers, so the larger banks, which have the benefit of being TBTF can be much higher than the average, and far higher than small banks.  Certainly in Germany DB and Commerzbank are way above their country's other banks.  Switzerland, not an EU member, has two large banks levered 30+:1 and they hold combined assets equal to 400% of Swiss GDP.  So of course in this upside down world the SFr is considered one of the safest currencies.  Apparently selling half the SNB's gold earlier in the last decade is what makes the SFr so rock solid.  This is our world.


Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:37 | 2203663 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Great comments. Post more, please.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:08 | 2203783 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

historically, this is not sooo odd. the economy is more centered on small and medium businesses i.e. less bonds, less publicly traded stocks and more direct lending by the banks to the businesses. coupled with more and smaller banks, this makes a different landscape than in the US or UK, with a differently leveraged and structured portfolio

then some of the italian, greek and french banks were often used/encouraged/forced to soak up their gov's sovereign bonds

Switzerland is again different because of the two giant global banks it "hosts", Credit Suisse and UBS - though they should really think about throwing them out

the selling of the gold was political, let's say they were advised to do so - but what is still there is really not inconsiderable...

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 13:25 | 2204449 Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

Leverage metrics are tricky because you have to make assumptions about asset and collateral quality. Lots of EU countries have not deflated their housing bubbles (ref ZH) and collateral quality is shaky at best. The actual leverage metrics are probably considerably higher.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:19 | 2203554 centerline
centerline's picture

Funny how this shit always comes full circle. All the gyrating and "circular references" was just smoke and mirrors to dupe the general public - particularly the German public in this case.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:21 | 2203572 The Beam
The Beam's picture

The thing with Germany is, the are going to be "last country standing" in Europe. Through austerity and through Deutsche Bank, they very well could bankrupt and privitize Greece (and then Portugal, so on and so forth).

Sprechen Sie deutsch?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 12:04 | 2204059 trilliontroll
trilliontroll's picture

Heinrich Heine
The Silesian Weavers (1844)

  "Doomed be the fatherland, false name, 

Where nothing thrives but disgrace and shame, 

Where flowers are crushed before they unfold, 

Where the worm is quickened by rot and mold...We weave; we weave.

"The loom is creaking, the shuttle flies; 

Nor night nor day do we close our eyes. 

Old Germany, your shroud's on our loom, 

And in it we weave the threefold doom; ...We weave; we weave!"

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:23 | 2203590 Nachdenken
Nachdenken's picture

....debt slave stupefied in a state of dazed zombification, punctuated by the dailyl reading of ZH...checking out the gold/silver talisman.  Is this already the end and we no longert see or feel it ?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:30 | 2203635 dervish
dervish's picture

it is the end of our freedom that came a long time ago, but we were only zombified/drugged by the consumption lifestyle and didn't give a rats ass about beeing slaves. now with diminishing ressources, the sheep that are too many in the flock will be fed less and eventually brought to slaughter....

the endgame will be a "naturzustand"-event à la Hobbes. you won't miss the show

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:46 | 2203696 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Well, even if some are trying to return to that mythical "state of nature," others will be collecting into retreats to defend their God-given rights.


Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:24 | 2203594 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Colonizing GDP in the New Era of Economics

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:25 | 2203603 HedgeFun
HedgeFun's picture

I love earmuffs!  You can say f%$k s&!t c*#k as much as you want!  Wish i could post i pic of my 2year old!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:28 | 2203618 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

The Euroslaves will put up with ANYTHING as long as they get their "free" healthcare.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:48 | 2203700 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Yep, it's time to drag out that old DVD of Michael Moore singing the praises of the You're Peein' healthcare system. What an imbecile. 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:01 | 2203759 the tower
the tower's picture

At least the Europeans care about their fellow human beings. America lets millions of children and elderly go without healthcare. 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:19 | 2203838 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

If that (Europeans caring) were true, how do you explain Europeans letting Greece get in the tight spot in which it now finds itself?

If that were true, how do you explain Hitler or Lenin or Stalin or Ceausescu?

If that were true, how do you explain the horrors committed in the former Yugoslavia? Are Yugos not European?

The next time you want to make idiotic blanket statements, you might want to go upstairs and try them out on your mummy first.

As for Americans letting children and the elderly go without, I confess, it's true. It's called accountability. If a man wants to spend all his paycheck at the bar or the racetrack or the autoparts store, we don't have laws to prevent that behavior. Does Europe? So when said paycheck is gone...what, I am supposed to pay for his aged mother and children's healthcare? Are you really insisting I pay for somebody else's poor decisions?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:27 | 2203863 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Are you really insisting I pay for somebody else's poor decisions?

Pretty much in a nutshell, that is the state of America. But being equal opportunity (choke, gag), we include the poor business decisions of our largest corporations and banking institutions.


Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:29 | 2203901 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

I know, and it hurts to see us like this.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 12:04 | 2204063 the tower
the tower's picture

Yeah I expected that answer. As in America no-one needs to be poor unless they spend their money at the racetrack. And if their kids are poor? Who cares right? None of your business, just poor kids. Plenty of those around.

Lenin or Stalin or Ceausescu... Man, you really have to drag all of human history into this. At that time there was no free healthcare. Can you stick to the discussion or do you just come here to trol?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 13:09 | 2204398 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Then quit ignoring the recent history.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 12:10 | 2204097 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

I bet they are spending money on free healthcare in Afghanistan though....

Basic health care for rural communities is a priority for USAID/Afghanistan, with a primary focus on women and children’s health.


USAID has adopted a four-pronged approach to improving the health of the Afghan people, especially women and children:

  • Meet the immediate healthcare needs of the population by supporting the provision of primary healthcare services
  • Improve the health-related behaviors of individuals, families, and communities
  • Increase demand for and access to quality health products and services through the private sector
  • Address the long-term sustainability of the healthcare system by strengthening the capacity of the Ministry of Public Health (MoPH) at central and sub-national levels
Tue, 02/28/2012 - 14:45 | 2204801 Jacks Nipple
Jacks Nipple's picture

Old People Die.

They are sucking so much out of this country, to be kept alive in a retirement home by pharmecuticals, wilting away in a bed.

They are unproductive, being kept unproductive, its a whole slurping sound in the death industry.

Give them their dignity and let them die in peace.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 16:51 | 2205497 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture


1) Insurance does not equal healthcare.  Just because someone is uninsured, that desn't mean they don't get or can't afford care.  In fact, som many Americans get free care that it's breaking the system.

2) Just because more than half of your eurotrash wages go to the government, and the government says you have "universal health care," that doesn't mean you actually get health care.  It just means you're a sucker and an idiot.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:59 | 2203752 the tower
the tower's picture

Free healthcare? In many European countries healthcare is not free at all, but income dependent, just like taxes. If you earn more you pay more. In some countries, like The Netherlands and Switzerland - healthcare is commercial, there is NO state healthcare. Even in the countries with full-on free state healthcare you can upgrade by taking private insurance, and opt out of the state healthcare, which is what most better-off people do.

If you're going to talk about Europe you should first do some research. You are just repeating American anti-European propaganda. 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:11 | 2203798 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

where is this propaganda actually coming from? some european=dems=socialists thing or is it about the financials? never understood this...

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:22 | 2203859 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

The point is, dufus, that spending on healthcare in European countries is often deficit spending. We applaud you for noting the exceptions.

How would you define "better-off"? Is that segment of the population increasing or shrinking? Can't you step back and look at the trend here?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:59 | 2204025 the tower
the tower's picture

Better-off was middle class, upto now.

And we are talking about healthcare here, not something useless and unneccesary.

European governments also managed to control the COST of healthcare, so it's not insanely expensive like in the USA.

And you can do without the "dufus" and everything, at least here we can pretend to be civilized people.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 16:53 | 2205511 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

That's because "health care" in Europe is like first aid, which doesn't cost very much.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 12:06 | 2204073 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

that spending on healthcare in European countries is often deficit spending.


And the USA is a basket case with its Budget Deficit because of Free Healthcare ?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 12:02 | 2204053 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

The Americans get FREE Healthcare. Their Employer pays for it but in Europe they only pay 50%. Amazing how Socialism in the USA makes sure that Health Insurance costs more than Steel for US Automakers. No country on earth spends as big a %GDP on Health as the Americans.

Typically, employers pay about 85% of the insurance premium for their employees, and about 75% of the premium for their employees' dependents. The employee pays the remaining fraction of the premium, usually with pre-tax/tax-exempt earnings


Whereas in Europe the Worker pays his share from POST-TAX earnings after losing 34%-50% in deductions

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:30 | 2203636 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

did they not know this already?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:39 | 2203671 j0nx
j0nx's picture

Please. The German people are bigger muschis than their American counterparts. They are so scared of reenacting their past that they are giving away all chance of their future.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:59 | 2204036 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

They are so scared of reenacting their past


That past being Danat and Dresdner collapse 1931 after the Bruening Deflation and rule by Presidential Decree from 1930. No need to be scared - the past is coming back.....go watch Iron Sky the Movie

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 10:40 | 2203675 flyonmywall
flyonmywall's picture

Somewhere in Europe, there is some pension fund or bond fund that is loaded up to the gills with Greek debt, or instruments related to it.

There is no way that the vaunted Teutonic efficiency could have ring-fenced everything from the impending clusterfuck.

Then, euphoria and bullishness will quickly turn to "contagion" and "we will need a bigger bailout" speeches. Except, the meetings won't suffice this time.

This is my prediction.


Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:21 | 2203856 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

Goldman Sachs said € 1 trillion,

so it must be true, because Goldman Sachs said so

fucking dickheads the lot of you !

addicted to QE and hopium -

dream on !


Tue, 02/28/2012 - 12:36 | 2204245 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Compariing it's size to the GDP would make that comparable to 4 1/4 trillion against the US GDP.....that has gotta hurt no matter how good your balance sheet is....

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