Goldman Takes Client Abuse To Next Level: Closes, And Reopens, Copper And Zinc Recommendations At Massive Losses

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Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:16 | 1997331 mc_LDN
mc_LDN's picture

So if that logic holds true GS is"selling" Gold right now - right? Eeek. Maybe I shouldnt hold that Gold.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:19 | 1997343 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Gold will most certainly plunge as the next deleveraging, liquidation episode grips the market.

Luckily, nobody here holds gold for investment purposes of converting fiat into fiat with a gold intermediary.


Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:21 | 1997351 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

I can only speak for myself.


Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:31 | 1997381 fuu
fuu's picture

I second that motion.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:10 | 1997525 YBNguy
YBNguy's picture

While gold will take its hit, my 'investment' of choice, ammo, will still climb...


Bullish Bullets for Christmas!!!!

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:19 | 1997551 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

Somebody once said silver bullets were the best investment you could possibly make.

If Goldman isn't long copper, then they must think the economy is heading for a slowdown. It seems to have been picking up lately though.. maybe they're just trying to make everybody look left while they zag right.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:25 | 1997364 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

One word: Celente.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:34 | 1997388 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Bullshit. Advancing a position with the intent to take delivery used to be not only a legitimate way, but also a financially sound way to accumulate physical, pre-MF.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:47 | 1997445 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Um, thank you for the glance at 'pre-MF' market conditions. I'd like to add that I made some fiat with Bear Stearns a while ago... I'm not sure how that helps either you or me but it's good to know...

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:36 | 1997395 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Only idiots own paper gold.  If gold "plunges" again, there won't be much if any physical available, just as there was hardly any to be had after the 2008 plunge.  Had to wait two months for delivery on silver I purchased then, and paid a 50% premium.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:41 | 1997420 55 men
55 men's picture

People are fleeing the Euro and looking for a safe haven, which obviously they think is the dollar.  We will see how gold and silver hold. If silver doesn't hold that 28 mark then we will see 26 and if that doesn't hold it will fall further. Huge buying opportunity if this happens. Short lived but definitely a possibility.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:03 | 1997497 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Yes..., if gold and silver can't hold at these levels, they may well go down. <sarc>

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:09 | 1997520 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

I seem to remember those same people fleeing the Euro to the Swiss Fanc not too long ago. We all know how that worked out. King Dolla' is soon to shake the fool's. Operation debasement is a force that can't be stopped. Sure, gold and silver will take a dive. But as TMosley stated......have fun trying to get it.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:42 | 1997429 Potemkin Villag...
Potemkin Village Idiot's picture

Luckily, nobody here holds gold for investment purposes of converting fiat into fiat with a gold intermediary.


Well if they did... They'd be pretty goddamned stupid...

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:49 | 1997641 donsluck
donsluck's picture

To be realistic, one would one have to, eventually, convert to whatever currency is used to buy groceries, pay real estate taxes, etc.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 12:27 | 1997749 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Not all currencies are fiat currencies.  The age of universal fiat had a beginning, so it will have an end.  Those who hold gold are simply waiting for that day to come.  Gold has the side effect of transferring purchasing power through different fiat currencies in a lossless manner as a happy side effect.  If the next currency regime should again be fiat in naute, you can bet your gold will buy a lot more of it than your dollars will.  It would be ill advised to trade your gold for this new fiat beyond immediate needs, however, as fiat successors to failed currencies have an even shorter average and median lifespan than the full set of fiat currencies.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 13:39 | 1998011 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Tmosley bring up an important point I discussed on Turd's site this morning, when to sell?

  • successor fiat currencies often fail
  • complete systemic collapse can still occur after a devaluation
  • In the 30s, devaluation continued in waves as they tinkered with the gold price, so you can convert into a new currency and be hit with another wave of devaluation.
  • It's unlikely, after ramping the price of their gold, central banks will allow the price to collapse.  This isn't a bubble, it's a reset.
  • Bernanke and company don't have a handbook for Operation Reset, it's been done before but never on this scale.  Therefore, they will feel their way along and debase the currency through printing and through the ramping of gold prices, but they are likely to do it in stages.
Tue, 12/20/2011 - 14:46 | 1998317 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

So in conclusion; although you need fiat to run your day to day expenses/purchases continue to buy at any price. Obviously the dips are the best entry points but accumulation is paramount. DO NOT buy so much that you are forced out of it (sell) to run your day to day operation during a massive raid. These are the days you want to be overweight fiat. Balance and adjust accordingly.

Above all rest your pretty heads. Even if, on a far outside shot, this thing does not come down in our lifetime. One's family members will most certainly be able to use the gold. Don't even question how thankful they will be for your insight.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:43 | 1997430 agent default
agent default's picture

There are still people in these markets on leverage? WTF? 

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:46 | 1997440 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Right...I own GLD...wait whaaaaaat?

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:18 | 1997549 Unholy Dalliance
Unholy Dalliance's picture

Errrrr… I thought Dennis Gartman was an honest man and when he called a top in gold last week, I sold EVERYTHING I had to some guy named Diamond?, Demon?, oh, that's it Dimon. Jammy Dimon - no that's not it! Jamie, that's his name! Jamie Dimon! He said he'd do me a favour and take it off my hands. He only charged me 10% as it is Christmas! What a nice man and such a relief to be shot of the stuff!

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:39 | 1997605 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I once had a gold fiat, it didn't work either. 

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 13:18 | 1997932 SovietCong
SovietCong's picture

Apparently, GS has a hard time lying about gold - just look at the Initial Value at the beginning of the holding period. 1,800/oz in October '10? Looks like a Freudian slip to me...

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:16 | 1997332 transaccountin
transaccountin's picture

Funnier? Well the 20 /es pump job since 3am on hopium is pretty comedy as well.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:18 | 1997340 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

If you think that is comedy, check out oil.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:17 | 1997336 monopoly
monopoly's picture

And what else do you expect from a Squid.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:28 | 1997375 i-dog
i-dog's picture

What part of "You're a fucking idiot if you entrust your investments to Goldman" do their clients not understand??

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:43 | 1997629 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

apparenlty the "fucking" part

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:51 | 1997648 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

True dat - it should be past tense for the recipients.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:17 | 1997337 55 men
55 men's picture

These people are incredible. There are no stops. I am just thankful I am nothing like these people. I am glad I can sleep at night.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:19 | 1997341 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Goldman is shorting so they see massive deflation

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:20 | 1997346 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture


Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:20 | 1997348 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Here we go again.


Everyone is now making fun of Goldman's horrific trading recommendations.

However, when they predict a massive financial implosion in Europe or a huge U.S. recession, suddenly they are considered infalliable "experts" and those forecasts are heaped with praise here on ZH.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:24 | 1997358 AngryGerman
AngryGerman's picture

so go ahead, i dare you to open Cu/Zn longs

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:24 | 1997359 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:09 | 1997519 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

I said that to my daughter, and she had no idea what the hell I was talking about.

When the clocks in her world break, the digits on them don't light up any more.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:17 | 1997544 fuu
fuu's picture

A stopped clock is right twice a day, a broken clock may never be correct.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:45 | 1997634 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

how often is a crooked clock?

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 12:09 | 1997705 UnderDeGun
UnderDeGun's picture

Not if it's digital. Then it's blank.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:24 | 1997360 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

I think most poeple make fun because goldman is nearly always the ' happy talk' generator.....most people here could see the economy was in trouble back in 2005

When they are down on the economy they do normally have a motive - like print more money

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:27 | 1997365 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

So in reality, their macro outlook has been in conflict with their trading recommendations.  Seems like a great way to shift blame when things don't pan out.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:28 | 1997374 kito
kito's picture

we would love to make fun of your recommendations, but, geez, robo, youre after the fact calls are always spot on......

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:48 | 1997448 Potemkin Villag...
Potemkin Village Idiot's picture

Robo would gladly tell you what stocks did last Wednesday for a hamburger today...

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:30 | 1997378 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

I prefer making fun of your horrific trading recommendations.

GS predict a financial implosion?  More like the cause of said implosion.  As I recall ZH predicted this well in advance of Goldman jumping on board.  But it does not surprise me you would remember it the other way round.


Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:33 | 1997389 fuu
fuu's picture

Oh bullshit.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:37 | 1997400 tmosley
tmosley's picture

They aren't "selling" those things.  Can you really dispute the track record of their specific recommendations?

Or do you hold them to the same standard as your own dumb calls?

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:46 | 1997443 Potemkin Villag...
Potemkin Village Idiot's picture

Everyone is now making fun of Goldman's horrific trading recommendations.

Well... All I can say is when the come out and say "Fade the Robot Trader", I'll reassess my POV on them...

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:21 | 1997349 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Read Bogle's books. He openly says the only people who make money with investment funds are the brokers, dealers, executives at the borkers. Too much commissions, fees. etc he says.

Better to do your own research then rely on conflicted recommendations he least that's what I take away from his books.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:22 | 1997353 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

i mean, does anybody really listen to these fuckers anymore??  and if so, who??  nobody's that fucking dumb.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:22 | 1997354 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

Im glad I shorted copper.

When the squid says one thing, do the opposite and put in a stop....besides China is cratering,... 

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