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Goldman Takes Client Abuse To Next Level: Closes, And Reopens, Copper And Zinc Recommendations At Massive Losses
We thought we had seen it all. And then comes Goldman. The firm, which continues to eviscerate its clients, just closed its Long Copper and Zinc June 2012 trades at massive losses: the first was opened on May 23 at $8,804/t, and closed on December 19 at $7,274/t, for a loss of $1,530/t, the second opened May 23 at $2,189/t, closed on December 19 at $1,891/t, for a loss of $298/t. So far so good - as all our readers know by now, one should do what Goldman does (i.e., sells to "clients"), not what Goldman tells its clients to do. This is not surprising. What however, is hilarious is that in the same report that Goldman closes its June 2012 Cu/Zn longs, it also... opens Cu/Zn longs. That's right - "While we maintain our bullish views on copper and zinc into 2012, we close out our May 23 recommendations for these metals at a considerable loss, and resetting the recommendations at December 19 prices." So somehow, while losing clients up to a blended 15%, Goldman continues holding the feet of those who still listen to them to the fire. Because this time it will be different.
In summary:
- Closing: Long Copper June 2012 (opened May 23 at $8,804/t, closed on December 19 at $7,274/t, for a loss of $1,530/t).
- Opening: Long Copper June 2012 on December 19 at $7,274/t.
- Closing: Long Zinc December 2012 (opened May 23 at $2,189/t, closed on December 19 at $1,891/t, for a loss of $298/t).
- Opening: Long Zinc December 2012 on December 19 at $1,891/t.
It really doesn't get any funnier than this.
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So if that logic holds true GS is"selling" Gold right now - right? Eeek. Maybe I shouldnt hold that Gold.
Gold will most certainly plunge as the next deleveraging, liquidation episode grips the market.
Luckily, nobody here holds gold for investment purposes of converting fiat into fiat with a gold intermediary.
Right?
I can only speak for myself.
RIGHT!
I second that motion.
While gold will take its hit, my 'investment' of choice, ammo, will still climb...
Bullish Bullets for Christmas!!!!
Somebody once said silver bullets were the best investment you could possibly make.
If Goldman isn't long copper, then they must think the economy is heading for a slowdown. It seems to have been picking up lately though.. maybe they're just trying to make everybody look left while they zag right.
One word: Celente.
Bullshit. Advancing a position with the intent to take delivery used to be not only a legitimate way, but also a financially sound way to accumulate physical, pre-MF.
Um, thank you for the glance at 'pre-MF' market conditions. I'd like to add that I made some fiat with Bear Stearns a while ago... I'm not sure how that helps either you or me but it's good to know...
Only idiots own paper gold. If gold "plunges" again, there won't be much if any physical available, just as there was hardly any to be had after the 2008 plunge. Had to wait two months for delivery on silver I purchased then, and paid a 50% premium.
People are fleeing the Euro and looking for a safe haven, which obviously they think is the dollar. We will see how gold and silver hold. If silver doesn't hold that 28 mark then we will see 26 and if that doesn't hold it will fall further. Huge buying opportunity if this happens. Short lived but definitely a possibility.
Yes..., if gold and silver can't hold at these levels, they may well go down. <sarc>
I seem to remember those same people fleeing the Euro to the Swiss Fanc not too long ago. We all know how that worked out. King Dolla' is soon to shake the fool's. Operation debasement is a force that can't be stopped. Sure, gold and silver will take a dive. But as TMosley stated......have fun trying to get it.
Luckily, nobody here holds gold for investment purposes of converting fiat into fiat with a gold intermediary.
Right?
Well if they did... They'd be pretty goddamned stupid...
To be realistic, one would one have to, eventually, convert to whatever currency is used to buy groceries, pay real estate taxes, etc.
Not all currencies are fiat currencies. The age of universal fiat had a beginning, so it will have an end. Those who hold gold are simply waiting for that day to come. Gold has the side effect of transferring purchasing power through different fiat currencies in a lossless manner as a happy side effect. If the next currency regime should again be fiat in naute, you can bet your gold will buy a lot more of it than your dollars will. It would be ill advised to trade your gold for this new fiat beyond immediate needs, however, as fiat successors to failed currencies have an even shorter average and median lifespan than the full set of fiat currencies.
Tmosley bring up an important point I discussed on Turd's site this morning, when to sell?
So in conclusion; although you need fiat to run your day to day expenses/purchases continue to buy at any price. Obviously the dips are the best entry points but accumulation is paramount. DO NOT buy so much that you are forced out of it (sell) to run your day to day operation during a massive raid. These are the days you want to be overweight fiat. Balance and adjust accordingly.
Above all rest your pretty heads. Even if, on a far outside shot, this thing does not come down in our lifetime. One's family members will most certainly be able to use the gold. Don't even question how thankful they will be for your insight.
There are still people in these markets on leverage? WTF?
Right...I own GLD...wait whaaaaaat?
Errrrr… I thought Dennis Gartman was an honest man and when he called a top in gold last week, I sold EVERYTHING I had to some guy named Diamond?, Demon?, oh, that's it Dimon. Jammy Dimon - no that's not it! Jamie, that's his name! Jamie Dimon! He said he'd do me a favour and take it off my hands. He only charged me 10% as it is Christmas! What a nice man and such a relief to be shot of the stuff!
I once had a gold fiat, it didn't work either.
Apparently, GS has a hard time lying about gold - just look at the Initial Value at the beginning of the holding period. 1,800/oz in October '10? Looks like a Freudian slip to me...
Funnier? Well the 20 /es pump job since 3am on hopium is pretty comedy as well.
If you think that is comedy, check out oil.
And what else do you expect from a Squid.
What part of "You're a fucking idiot if you entrust your investments to Goldman" do their clients not understand??
apparenlty the "fucking" part
True dat - it should be past tense for the recipients.
These people are incredible. There are no stops. I am just thankful I am nothing like these people. I am glad I can sleep at night.
Goldman is shorting so they see massive deflation
GOLDMAN MULLIGAN
Here we go again.
Everyone is now making fun of Goldman's horrific trading recommendations.
However, when they predict a massive financial implosion in Europe or a huge U.S. recession, suddenly they are considered infalliable "experts" and those forecasts are heaped with praise here on ZH.
so go ahead, i dare you to open Cu/Zn longs
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
I said that to my daughter, and she had no idea what the hell I was talking about.
When the clocks in her world break, the digits on them don't light up any more.
A stopped clock is right twice a day, a broken clock may never be correct.
how often is a crooked clock?
Not if it's digital. Then it's blank.
I think most poeple make fun because goldman is nearly always the ' happy talk' generator.....most people here could see the economy was in trouble back in 2005
When they are down on the economy they do normally have a motive - like print more money
So in reality, their macro outlook has been in conflict with their trading recommendations. Seems like a great way to shift blame when things don't pan out.
we would love to make fun of your recommendations, but, geez, robo, youre after the fact calls are always spot on......
Robo would gladly tell you what stocks did last Wednesday for a hamburger today...
I prefer making fun of your horrific trading recommendations.
GS predict a financial implosion? More like the cause of said implosion. As I recall ZH predicted this well in advance of Goldman jumping on board. But it does not surprise me you would remember it the other way round.
Oh bullshit.
They aren't "selling" those things. Can you really dispute the track record of their specific recommendations?
Or do you hold them to the same standard as your own dumb calls?
Everyone is now making fun of Goldman's horrific trading recommendations.
Well... All I can say is when the come out and say "Fade the Robot Trader", I'll reassess my POV on them...
Read Bogle's books. He openly says the only people who make money with investment funds are the brokers, dealers, executives at the borkers. Too much commissions, fees. etc he says.
Better to do your own research then rely on conflicted recommendations he says...at least that's what I take away from his books.
i mean, does anybody really listen to these fuckers anymore?? and if so, who?? nobody's that fucking dumb.
Im glad I shorted copper.
When the squid says one thing, do the opposite and put in a stop....besides China is cratering,...
"God's work" bears a striking resemblance to molestation.
What, like Catholic priests you mean?
Tyler. That is just very nicely written (for a change). Bravo!
damn GOLDMAN . i hope it does plunge, i need a lot more gold & silver. a silvery & golden MERRY CHRISTMAS to ME !
The clients deserve it imo.
Robo, at the end of the day, Goldman is always talking an angle, and I don't think that anyone on this blog has said anything different. It is a sign of the times that a blog such as ZeroHedge and Goldman Sachs end up coming to the same conclusions. Is it not entirely apparent to you from reading almost every article on this blog that Goldman stands to profit from a market crash and subsequent round of bailouts by central banks and governments? If Goldman feels like telling the truth for profit in some of its research pieces and ZeroHedge posts them, that is not hypocritical, but simply posting a decent piece of research a POS firm released for the entirely wrong reasons.
Perverse incentives and cretenism run this financial system.
The Greater Fool Theory is alive and well...evidently.
I'm just sayin'; maybe they need tax losses. Of course that assumes you got gains from something else. Vampire Squid forever baby!
http://vegasxau.blogspot.com
deleated redundant post --re taxes--my bad
I'm wondering, if drug testing for the unemployed "gets through congress" would betting on testing labs be a "sure" thing, ya think thats where all the congressional money will be going?
There's also an error on their long gold position, it should be a (loss) but it's listed as a gain.
Naughty, naughty.
http://maxkeiser.com/2011/12/20/investors-are-furious-that-they-cant-get-back-the-gold-and-silver-they-stashed-with-the-failed-brokerage/
PRESS RELEASE TORONTO, ON., CANADA- 19/12/2011
ECONOMIC THINK TANK CONFRONTS THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL POWERS IN CANADIAN FEDERAL COURT.
RESTORE THE USE OF THE BANK OF CANADA FOR THE BENEFIT OF CANADIANS AND REMOVE IT FROM THE CONTROL OF INTERNATIONAL PRIVATE ENTITIES WHOSE INTERESTS AND DIRECTIVES ARE PLACED ABOVE THE INTEREST OF CANADIANS AND THE PRIMACY OF THE CONSTITUTION OF CANADA
Canadian constitutional lawyer, Rocco Galati, on behalf of Canadians William Krehm, and Ann Emmett, and COMER (Committee for Monetary and Economic Reform) on December 12th, 2011 filed an action in Federal Court, to restore the use of the Bank of Canada to its original purpose, by exercising its public statutory duty and responsibility. That purpose includes making interest free loans to municipal/provincial/federal governments for “human capital” expenditures (education, health, other social services) and /or infrastructure expenditures.
The action also constitutionally challenges the government’s fallacious accounting methods in its tabling of the budget by not calculating nor revealing the true and total revenues of the nation before transferring back “tax credits” to corporations and other taxpayers.
The Plaintiffs state that since 1974 there has been a gradual but sure slide into the reality that the Bank of Canada and Canada’s monetary and financial policy are dictated by private foreign banks and financial interests contrary to the Bank of Canada Act.
The Plaintiffs state that the Bank of International Settlements (BIS), the Financial Stability Forum (FSF) and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) were all created with the cognizant intent of keeping poorer nations in their place which has now expanded to all nations in that these financial institutions largely succeed in over-riding governments and constitutional orders in countries such as Canada over which they exert financial control.
The Plaintiffs state that the meetings of the BIS and Financial Stability Board (FSB) (successor of FSF), their minutes, their discussions and deliberations are secret and not available nor accountable to Parliament, the executive, nor the Canadian public notwithstanding that the Bank of Canada policies directly emanate from these meetings. These organizations are essentially private, foreign entities controlling Canada’s banking system and socio-economic policies.
The Plaintiffs state that the defendants (officials) are unwittingly and /or wittingly, in varying degrees, knowledge and intent engaged in a conspiracy, along with the BIS, FSB, IMF to render impotent the Bank of Canada Act as well as Canadian sovereignty over financial, monetary, and socio-economic policy, and bypass the sovereign rule of Canada through its Parliament by means of banking and financial systems.
A press conference will be held on Wednesday, December 21st, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. to answer any questions the media may have of the Plaintiffs at: 637 College Street, Suite 203, Toronto, Ontario.
Hey memyselfiu.
Guess who is the Govenor of the Bank of Canada....?
Thats right...a Goldmanite.
Mark Carney......
Planted by Goldman Sachs.
Guess who is the SENIOR Economist at CIDA (Canadian Internaional Developement Agency)...>........Jonathan Rothschild.......
Thats right......Jonathan Rothschild is the Senior Economist,for Canadas International Developement Agency.....
See the pattern....
I'd like to repost this elswhere, do you have a link to this article, please post it.
Thanks
A 20 second Google finds several sources, here's one of them
http://canadianawareness.org/2011/12/global-financial-powers-challenged-in-the-canadian-federal-court/
If you do ANY business with Goldman Sachs....YOU deserve to be ripped off for every penny.
Or any ex Goldman Sach guys too.
You will dance with the devil till he/she dances on your grave if you do any business with them
Do not worry!! The SEC is on this! And our revered leader, Eric Holder (holding his pecker, I reckon) is standing behind them, ready to pounce!! Geithner is apalled at this abuse!!
The state of our union is strong!!
Just kiddin'
NEW YORK, NY -- Goldman Sachs has converted the last of its research products to its patented "instant-reset" methodology which has been proven to deliver superior returns to investors. After observing that its clients accepted simultaneous close and reopen of a losing recommendation, putting losses in the past where they could be more easily forgotten, Goldman began reducing the time frame between initial recommendation and this action.
"We realized, why not go all the way?" said Lloyd Blankfein. "Now, we reset recommendations the instant the instrument ticks lower, and we keep on doing it. Not only are losses limited to $.01 in most cases, but our basis is guaranteed to bottom-tick the market."
What's up next? "Our HFT group looked at what we're doing, and realized that with our micro-second front running products, we can actually reset recommendations before even one tick lower." Blankfein is sanguine: "losses are truly a thing of the past."
When asked whether the firm would apply the same methodology to gains, Blankfein's mouth opened and his face melted. Shocks of white energy emanated from his torso and stabbed through those of his henchmen.
I see RoboTard has paid some pushers to push his green arrow today.
A tip of the hat for the comic relief
They're lucky they didn't get Corzined.
How does GS CLOSE clients positions without their premission?
Or does GS on accept clients that allow them to INVEST for them,IOW, HOw GS thinks is best for the client.
And why do idiots continue to invest with these stealing whores?.
" Because this time it will be different."
of course it will - gs will fuck their clients even harder and for greater losses....this first loss was just a warm up....
We need a website that can keep track of names and addresses of all crooks (banksters, lawyers, mortagage brokers, govt. employees, local and national politicians, educators & lobbyists) who have perpetuated this massive financial fraud, so they can answer to the people for their crimes against humanity and be tried and sentenced by a new unperverted court that follows the US Constitutional guidelines, when the great reset ensues in the near future.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,[74] that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security" US Constitution July 4, 1776
You can have democratic self-rule, or you can have fiat currency. You cannot have both.
The Constitution says that this country must use gold and silver as its only money. It does not say why.
If we allow fiat 'money' to exist, then we immediately live in a tyranny ruled by those empowered to create that 'money'. Even if the first generation of those so empowered have good intentions (and they did not) such power would corrupt the very angels. In another generation or two, the existence of that power will draw to it the people most desirous of power over others. Their first act, to protect their own power, will be to purchase the political process.
If you try to 'get money out of politics' you will fail. All the plutocrats need to do is pay off politicians after they leave office. Soon, even one-term representatives will do their bidding.
Fiat currency and democracy cannot for long exist in the same nation.
I'm pretty sure that the Constitution wasn't written until 1787 and wasn't ratified until 1789. I believe the document that you are quoting is called 'The Declaration of Independence'.
Can we ask who Goldmans client list is?
Is it principally taxpayers in some form such as retirement funds and municipal funds?
If so, can we then posit some form of government collusion with the goldman fleecing process?
I just prefer to buy alot of gold jewlery that I can wear in the meantime.
But seriously, who would go long on Copper under the present circumstances? Even laymen know that.