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Goldman Takes Client Abuse To Next Level: Closes, And Reopens, Copper And Zinc Recommendations At Massive Losses

Tyler Durden's picture


We thought we had seen it all. And then comes Goldman. The firm, which continues to eviscerate its clients, just closed its Long Copper and Zinc June 2012 trades at massive losses: the first was opened on May 23 at $8,804/t, and closed on December 19 at $7,274/t, for a loss of $1,530/t, the second opened May 23 at $2,189/t, closed on December 19 at $1,891/t, for a loss of $298/t. So far so good - as all our readers know by now, one should do what Goldman does (i.e., sells to "clients"), not what Goldman tells its clients to do. This is not surprising. What however, is hilarious is that in the same report that Goldman closes its June 2012 Cu/Zn longs, it also... opens Cu/Zn longs. That's right - "While we maintain our bullish views on copper and zinc into 2012, we close out our May 23 recommendations for these metals at a considerable loss, and resetting the recommendations at December 19 prices." So somehow, while losing clients up to a blended 15%, Goldman continues holding the feet of those who still listen to them to the fire. Because this time it will be different.

In summary:

  • Closing: Long Copper June 2012 (opened May 23 at $8,804/t, closed on December 19 at $7,274/t, for a loss of $1,530/t).
  • Opening: Long Copper June 2012 on December 19 at $7,274/t.
  • Closing: Long Zinc December 2012 (opened May 23 at $2,189/t, closed on December 19 at $1,891/t, for a loss of $298/t).
  • Opening: Long Zinc December 2012 on December 19 at $1,891/t.

It really doesn't get any funnier than this.


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Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:16 | 1997331 mc_LDN
mc_LDN's picture

So if that logic holds true GS is"selling" Gold right now - right? Eeek. Maybe I shouldnt hold that Gold.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:19 | 1997343 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Gold will most certainly plunge as the next deleveraging, liquidation episode grips the market.

Luckily, nobody here holds gold for investment purposes of converting fiat into fiat with a gold intermediary.


Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:21 | 1997351 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

I can only speak for myself.


Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:31 | 1997381 fuu
fuu's picture

I second that motion.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:10 | 1997525 YBNguy
YBNguy's picture

While gold will take its hit, my 'investment' of choice, ammo, will still climb...


Bullish Bullets for Christmas!!!!

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:19 | 1997551 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

Somebody once said silver bullets were the best investment you could possibly make.

If Goldman isn't long copper, then they must think the economy is heading for a slowdown. It seems to have been picking up lately though.. maybe they're just trying to make everybody look left while they zag right.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:25 | 1997364 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

One word: Celente.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:34 | 1997388 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Bullshit. Advancing a position with the intent to take delivery used to be not only a legitimate way, but also a financially sound way to accumulate physical, pre-MF.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:47 | 1997445 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Um, thank you for the glance at 'pre-MF' market conditions. I'd like to add that I made some fiat with Bear Stearns a while ago... I'm not sure how that helps either you or me but it's good to know...

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:36 | 1997395 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Only idiots own paper gold.  If gold "plunges" again, there won't be much if any physical available, just as there was hardly any to be had after the 2008 plunge.  Had to wait two months for delivery on silver I purchased then, and paid a 50% premium.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:41 | 1997420 55 men
55 men's picture

People are fleeing the Euro and looking for a safe haven, which obviously they think is the dollar.  We will see how gold and silver hold. If silver doesn't hold that 28 mark then we will see 26 and if that doesn't hold it will fall further. Huge buying opportunity if this happens. Short lived but definitely a possibility.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:03 | 1997497 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Yes..., if gold and silver can't hold at these levels, they may well go down. <sarc>

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:09 | 1997520 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

I seem to remember those same people fleeing the Euro to the Swiss Fanc not too long ago. We all know how that worked out. King Dolla' is soon to shake the fool's. Operation debasement is a force that can't be stopped. Sure, gold and silver will take a dive. But as TMosley stated......have fun trying to get it.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:42 | 1997429 Potemkin Villag...
Potemkin Village Idiot's picture

Luckily, nobody here holds gold for investment purposes of converting fiat into fiat with a gold intermediary.


Well if they did... They'd be pretty goddamned stupid...

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:49 | 1997641 donsluck
donsluck's picture

To be realistic, one would one have to, eventually, convert to whatever currency is used to buy groceries, pay real estate taxes, etc.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 12:27 | 1997749 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Not all currencies are fiat currencies.  The age of universal fiat had a beginning, so it will have an end.  Those who hold gold are simply waiting for that day to come.  Gold has the side effect of transferring purchasing power through different fiat currencies in a lossless manner as a happy side effect.  If the next currency regime should again be fiat in naute, you can bet your gold will buy a lot more of it than your dollars will.  It would be ill advised to trade your gold for this new fiat beyond immediate needs, however, as fiat successors to failed currencies have an even shorter average and median lifespan than the full set of fiat currencies.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 13:39 | 1998011 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Tmosley bring up an important point I discussed on Turd's site this morning, when to sell?

  • successor fiat currencies often fail
  • complete systemic collapse can still occur after a devaluation
  • In the 30s, devaluation continued in waves as they tinkered with the gold price, so you can convert into a new currency and be hit with another wave of devaluation.
  • It's unlikely, after ramping the price of their gold, central banks will allow the price to collapse.  This isn't a bubble, it's a reset.
  • Bernanke and company don't have a handbook for Operation Reset, it's been done before but never on this scale.  Therefore, they will feel their way along and debase the currency through printing and through the ramping of gold prices, but they are likely to do it in stages.
Tue, 12/20/2011 - 14:46 | 1998317 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

So in conclusion; although you need fiat to run your day to day expenses/purchases continue to buy at any price. Obviously the dips are the best entry points but accumulation is paramount. DO NOT buy so much that you are forced out of it (sell) to run your day to day operation during a massive raid. These are the days you want to be overweight fiat. Balance and adjust accordingly.

Above all rest your pretty heads. Even if, on a far outside shot, this thing does not come down in our lifetime. One's family members will most certainly be able to use the gold. Don't even question how thankful they will be for your insight.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:43 | 1997430 agent default
agent default's picture

There are still people in these markets on leverage? WTF? 

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:46 | 1997440 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Right...I own GLD...wait whaaaaaat?

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:18 | 1997549 Unholy Dalliance
Unholy Dalliance's picture

Errrrr… I thought Dennis Gartman was an honest man and when he called a top in gold last week, I sold EVERYTHING I had to some guy named Diamond?, Demon?, oh, that's it Dimon. Jammy Dimon - no that's not it! Jamie, that's his name! Jamie Dimon! He said he'd do me a favour and take it off my hands. He only charged me 10% as it is Christmas! What a nice man and such a relief to be shot of the stuff!

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:39 | 1997605 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I once had a gold fiat, it didn't work either. 

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 13:18 | 1997932 SovietCong
SovietCong's picture

Apparently, GS has a hard time lying about gold - just look at the Initial Value at the beginning of the holding period. 1,800/oz in October '10? Looks like a Freudian slip to me...

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:16 | 1997332 transaccountin
transaccountin's picture

Funnier? Well the 20 /es pump job since 3am on hopium is pretty comedy as well.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:18 | 1997340 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

If you think that is comedy, check out oil.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:17 | 1997336 monopoly
monopoly's picture

And what else do you expect from a Squid.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:28 | 1997375 i-dog
i-dog's picture

What part of "You're a fucking idiot if you entrust your investments to Goldman" do their clients not understand??

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:43 | 1997629 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

apparenlty the "fucking" part

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:51 | 1997648 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

True dat - it should be past tense for the recipients.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:17 | 1997337 55 men
55 men's picture

These people are incredible. There are no stops. I am just thankful I am nothing like these people. I am glad I can sleep at night.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:19 | 1997341 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Goldman is shorting so they see massive deflation

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:20 | 1997346 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture


Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:20 | 1997348 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Here we go again.


Everyone is now making fun of Goldman's horrific trading recommendations.

However, when they predict a massive financial implosion in Europe or a huge U.S. recession, suddenly they are considered infalliable "experts" and those forecasts are heaped with praise here on ZH.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:24 | 1997358 AngryGerman
AngryGerman's picture

so go ahead, i dare you to open Cu/Zn longs

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:24 | 1997359 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:09 | 1997519 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

I said that to my daughter, and she had no idea what the hell I was talking about.

When the clocks in her world break, the digits on them don't light up any more.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:17 | 1997544 fuu
fuu's picture

A stopped clock is right twice a day, a broken clock may never be correct.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:45 | 1997634 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

how often is a crooked clock?

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 12:09 | 1997705 UnderDeGun
UnderDeGun's picture

Not if it's digital. Then it's blank.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:24 | 1997360 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

I think most poeple make fun because goldman is nearly always the ' happy talk' generator.....most people here could see the economy was in trouble back in 2005

When they are down on the economy they do normally have a motive - like print more money

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:27 | 1997365 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

So in reality, their macro outlook has been in conflict with their trading recommendations.  Seems like a great way to shift blame when things don't pan out.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:28 | 1997374 kito
kito's picture

we would love to make fun of your recommendations, but, geez, robo, youre after the fact calls are always spot on......

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:48 | 1997448 Potemkin Villag...
Potemkin Village Idiot's picture

Robo would gladly tell you what stocks did last Wednesday for a hamburger today...

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:30 | 1997378 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

I prefer making fun of your horrific trading recommendations.

GS predict a financial implosion?  More like the cause of said implosion.  As I recall ZH predicted this well in advance of Goldman jumping on board.  But it does not surprise me you would remember it the other way round.


Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:33 | 1997389 fuu
fuu's picture

Oh bullshit.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:37 | 1997400 tmosley
tmosley's picture

They aren't "selling" those things.  Can you really dispute the track record of their specific recommendations?

Or do you hold them to the same standard as your own dumb calls?

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:46 | 1997443 Potemkin Villag...
Potemkin Village Idiot's picture

Everyone is now making fun of Goldman's horrific trading recommendations.

Well... All I can say is when the come out and say "Fade the Robot Trader", I'll reassess my POV on them...

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:21 | 1997349 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Read Bogle's books. He openly says the only people who make money with investment funds are the brokers, dealers, executives at the borkers. Too much commissions, fees. etc he says.

Better to do your own research then rely on conflicted recommendations he least that's what I take away from his books.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:22 | 1997353 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

i mean, does anybody really listen to these fuckers anymore??  and if so, who??  nobody's that fucking dumb.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:22 | 1997354 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

Im glad I shorted copper.

When the squid says one thing, do the opposite and put in a stop....besides China is cratering,... 

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:23 | 1997357 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

"God's work" bears a striking resemblance to molestation.


Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:27 | 1997371 Zaydac
Zaydac's picture

What, like Catholic priests you mean?

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:27 | 1997368 bigwavedave
bigwavedave's picture

Tyler. That is just very nicely written (for a change). Bravo!

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:28 | 1997372 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

damn GOLDMAN .    i hope it does plunge, i need a lot more gold & silver.    a silvery & golden MERRY CHRISTMAS to ME !

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:31 | 1997379 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

The clients deserve it imo.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:32 | 1997380 Rat King
Rat King's picture

Robo, at the end of the day, Goldman is always talking an angle, and I don't think that anyone on this blog has said anything different. It is a sign of the times that a blog such as ZeroHedge and Goldman Sachs end up coming to the same conclusions. Is it not entirely apparent to you from reading almost every article on this blog that Goldman stands to profit from a market crash and subsequent round of bailouts by central banks and governments? If Goldman feels like telling the truth for profit in some of its research pieces and ZeroHedge posts them, that is not hypocritical, but simply posting a decent piece of research a POS firm released for the entirely wrong reasons. 

Perverse incentives and cretenism run this financial system.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:33 | 1997386 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

The Greater Fool Theory is alive and well...evidently.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:36 | 1997396 vegas
vegas's picture

I'm just sayin'; maybe they need tax losses. Of course that assumes you got gains from something else. Vampire Squid forever baby!

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:45 | 1997410 g speed
g speed's picture

deleated redundant post --re taxes--my bad

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:41 | 1997416 alchemystic
alchemystic's picture

I'm wondering, if drug testing for the unemployed "gets through congress" would betting on testing labs be a "sure" thing, ya think thats where all the congressional money will be going?

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:42 | 1997424 NervousRex
NervousRex's picture

There's also an error on their long gold position, it should be a (loss) but it's listed as a gain.

Naughty, naughty.


Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:03 | 1997498 memyselfiu
memyselfiu's picture




Canadian constitutional lawyer, Rocco Galati, on behalf of Canadians William Krehm, and Ann Emmett, and COMER (Committee for Monetary and Economic Reform) on December 12th, 2011 filed an action in Federal Court, to restore the use of the Bank of Canada to its original purpose, by exercising its public statutory duty and responsibility. That purpose includes making interest free loans to municipal/provincial/federal governments for “human capital” expenditures (education, health, other social services) and /or infrastructure expenditures.

The action also constitutionally challenges the government’s fallacious accounting methods in its tabling of the budget by not calculating nor revealing the true and total revenues of the nation before transferring back “tax credits” to corporations and other taxpayers.

The Plaintiffs state that since 1974 there has been a gradual but sure slide into the reality that the Bank of Canada and Canada’s monetary and financial policy are dictated by private foreign banks and financial interests contrary to the Bank of Canada Act.

The Plaintiffs state that the Bank of International Settlements (BIS), the Financial Stability Forum (FSF) and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) were all created with the cognizant intent of keeping poorer nations in their place which has now expanded to all nations in that these financial institutions largely succeed in over-riding governments and constitutional orders in countries such as Canada over which they exert financial control.

The Plaintiffs state that the meetings of the BIS and Financial Stability Board (FSB) (successor of FSF), their minutes, their discussions and deliberations are secret and not available nor accountable to Parliament, the executive, nor the Canadian public notwithstanding that the Bank of Canada policies directly emanate from these meetings. These organizations are essentially private, foreign entities controlling Canada’s banking system and socio-economic policies.

The Plaintiffs state that the defendants (officials) are unwittingly and /or wittingly, in varying degrees, knowledge and intent engaged in a conspiracy, along with the BIS, FSB, IMF to render impotent the Bank of Canada Act as well as Canadian sovereignty over financial, monetary, and socio-economic policy, and bypass the sovereign rule of Canada through its Parliament by means of banking and financial systems.

A press conference will be held on Wednesday, December 21st, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. to answer any questions the media may have of the Plaintiffs at: 637 College Street, Suite 203, Toronto, Ontario.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:41 | 1997575 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Hey memyselfiu.

Guess who is the Govenor of the Bank of Canada....?

Thats right...a Goldmanite.

Mark Carney......

Planted by Goldman Sachs.

Guess who is the SENIOR Economist at CIDA (Canadian Internaional Developement Agency)...>........Jonathan Rothschild.......

Thats right......Jonathan Rothschild is the Senior Economist,for Canadas International Developement Agency.....

See the pattern....

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 12:03 | 1997686 steelrules
steelrules's picture

I'd like to repost this elswhere, do you have a link to this article, please post it.


Tue, 12/20/2011 - 18:00 | 1999072 smiler03
Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:21 | 1997554 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

If you do ANY business with Goldman Sachs....YOU deserve to be ripped off for every penny.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:42 | 1997627 nathan1234
nathan1234's picture

Or any ex Goldman Sach guys too.

You will dance with the devil till he/she dances on your grave if you do any business with them


Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:27 | 1997567 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

Do not worry!!  The SEC is on this!  And our revered leader, Eric Holder (holding his pecker, I reckon) is standing behind them, ready to pounce!!  Geithner is apalled at this abuse!!


The state of our union is strong!!



Just kiddin'

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:33 | 1997583 unununium
unununium's picture

NEW YORK, NY -- Goldman Sachs has converted the last of its research products to its patented "instant-reset" methodology which has been proven to deliver superior returns to investors.  After observing that its clients accepted simultaneous close and reopen of a losing recommendation, putting losses in the past where they could be more easily forgotten, Goldman began reducing the time frame between initial recommendation and this action. 

"We realized, why not go all the way?" said Lloyd Blankfein.  "Now, we reset recommendations the instant the instrument ticks lower, and we keep on doing it.  Not only are losses limited to $.01 in most cases, but our basis is guaranteed to bottom-tick the market."

What's up next?  "Our HFT group looked at what we're doing, and realized that with our micro-second front running products, we can actually reset recommendations before even one tick lower."  Blankfein is sanguine: "losses are truly a thing of the past."

When asked whether the firm would apply the same methodology to gains, Blankfein's mouth opened and his face melted.  Shocks of white energy emanated from his torso and stabbed through those of his henchmen.


Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:49 | 1997640 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

I see RoboTard has paid some pushers to push his green arrow today.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 14:27 | 1998236 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

A tip of the hat for the comic relief

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:52 | 1997650 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

They're lucky they didn't get Corzined.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:55 | 1997660 DosZap
DosZap's picture

How does GS CLOSE clients positions without their premission?

Or does GS on accept clients that allow them to INVEST for them,IOW, HOw GS thinks is best for the client.

And why do idiots continue to invest with these stealing whores?.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:55 | 1997661 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

" Because this time it will be different."

of course it will - gs will fuck their clients even harder and for greater losses....this first loss was just a warm up....

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 12:18 | 1997724 AC_Doctor
AC_Doctor's picture

We need a website that can keep track of names and addresses of all crooks (banksters, lawyers, mortagage brokers, govt. employees, local and national politicians, educators & lobbyists) who have perpetuated this massive financial fraud, so they can answer to the people for their crimes against humanity and be tried and sentenced by a new unperverted court that follows the US Constitutional guidelines, when the great reset ensues in the near future.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,[74] that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security"  US Constitution July 4, 1776

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 12:42 | 1997792 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

You can have democratic self-rule, or you can have fiat currency.  You cannot have both.

The Constitution says that this country must use gold and silver as its only money.  It does not say why.

If we allow fiat 'money' to exist, then we immediately live in a tyranny ruled by those empowered to create that 'money'.  Even if the first generation of those so empowered have good intentions (and they did not) such power would corrupt the very angels.  In another generation or two, the existence of that power will draw to it the people most desirous of power over others.  Their first act, to protect their own power, will be to purchase the political process.

If you try to 'get money out of politics' you will fail. All the plutocrats need to do is pay off politicians after they leave office.  Soon, even one-term representatives will do their bidding.

Fiat currency and democracy cannot for long exist in the same nation.


Tue, 12/20/2011 - 13:16 | 1997929 docloxvio
docloxvio's picture

I'm pretty sure that the Constitution wasn't written until 1787 and wasn't ratified until 1789. I believe the document that you are quoting is called 'The Declaration of Independence'.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 13:00 | 1997866 MobBarley
MobBarley's picture

Can we ask who Goldmans client list is?

Is it principally taxpayers in some form such as retirement funds and municipal funds?

If so, can we then posit some form of government collusion with the goldman fleecing process?


Tue, 12/20/2011 - 16:09 | 1998646 swani
swani's picture

I just prefer to buy alot of gold jewlery that I can wear in the meantime.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 16:12 | 1998655 swani
swani's picture

But seriously, who would go long on Copper under the present circumstances? Even laymen know that. 

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