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Goldman's Head Gold Trader On The Recoupling Between Gold (Which Is Up 14% YTD) And Money, And Why This Is 2008 All Over Again

Tyler Durden's picture


From Goldman head gold trader, not the always wrong sellside analysts or researchs, Zak Dhabalia. Note none of this shoule be a surprise to those who invest in gold, instead of trading it based on 1 minute momentum, which unfortunately is ever more of the bipolar investing public.

Well its hard to be coherent let alone add any value after the some of the moves we have seen in the last few sessions. Gold fell 12% in 3 days to reach 1535 this morning before bouncing back to 1620 an hour later. Silver has fallen 33% in 3 days to $26.15 this morning having been at $40 last week and almost $50 back in May.
It seems hard to believe but Gold is still up 14% YTD and only back to the levels of beginning of August whereas silver is basically flat on the year. This reflects the separation of the monetary asset and industrial characteristics of gold and other precious metals. Indeed Palladium is now down over 22% on the year and Platinum down 15% suggesting real concerns about the outlook for industrial demand on a global basis where Asian demand for PGMs have been critical to prior price rallies.
This reminds me very much of late 2008 when gold fell from 1000 to 700 (30%) but the other metals and even equities fell over 50%. Then and now many commentators were wondering if the game was over for gold especially as Vols quickly spiked to such high levels in the prior run up, always an important indicator of coming corrections as the safe haven characteristics then become more suspect. What we are seeing in the market place is high volume turnover on the exchange but extremely low liquidity and huge activity on the screens rather than in the OTC discretionary space where most of our counterparties have had very little risk in gold for several weeks. Interbank flows are almost extinct.
There is no doubt that long risk in gold has been drastically cut back. The latest comex data show another 1.5m oz fall to 25m oz and I suspect the data for the week ending tomorrow could show a decline of over 3m oz. The ETF positions appear to have been more resilient. The concern will be if tech funds decide to cut entirely and even go short. In this liquidity that can still have a significant impact on prices. However in the context of the macro markets I am not convinced at all the game is over for gold. In fact far from it. The rally in the dollar is not from a position of strength but more a reflection of panic about the risk of disorderly outcomes to fiscal and monetary policies in the face of poor political coordination. The search is for liquidity and the prices of industrial metals suggest real fears about the future growth of demand.
I think such a backdrop will be a supportive environment for gold in the same way that it outperformed in 2008 into 2009 but also for nominal performance. At that time Central Banks were also sellers but now we have seen official sector demand throughout last week during the decline. Anecdotally we have heard that physical demand in India is picking up hard this morning.
I firmly believe that as we have seen several times since 2008 these financial spec corrections for gold allow the bull run to reset positions and cleanup the market for the overall trend to remain intact and take prices higher later.  It makes sense to be cautious with vols so high but those buying gold below 1550 for medium to long term views are being handed an opportunity where the risk reward seems a wonderful opportunity.
Good luck

Gold options( Lars Ahlgreen )
1m 37.00/40.00
2m 35.00/37.50
3m 33.50/35.75
6m 31.50/33.50
1yr 30.50/32.50
Gold vols through the roof, and liquidity all but evaporated. 1mth vol trading up 8 vols from the close on Friday, with a large variety of smaller names buying. The velocity and extend of this down move has definitely surprised me, but in the context of metals it unfortunately makes sense.
1m 60/80
2m 55/70
3m 50/60
6m 49/54
1yr 46/51
Silver vols exploding. 1wk is up roughly 50 vols from the settle on Friday and the market is very wide and extremely illiquid.


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Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:20 | 1711288 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Central Banks hold gold not for tradition but to use on their balance sheets.  It is the only performing asset on the aforementioned.  So, if the price of gold goes down any further, we will see a bunch of bankrupt Central Banks.  Audit the Fed, and maybe we find out to justify their liabilities gold should actually be $5k.  Just sayin'.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:33 | 1711322 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture




Anyone know why Turd removed those charts from his post last night?  More bad charting?  Well, I happen to remember them...just three hours after he called a double bottom in gold in the low 1600's, it collapses to the mid 1500's.  Same with silver....some nonsense about how the charts are trying to show a "bottoming".... then it collapses to the mid 20's. Both of the charts made him look very incompetent. I thought only SilverGoldSilver deleted his bad calls.   

I have absolutely NO IDEA why anyone follows his charts.  First, in the beginning of summer, he misses the entire ~$400 move to the upside. And now, he misses the entire ~$400 move to the downside.  He posts charts and analysis that's proven wrong 2 hours later.  It's just unbelievable.    

Worst technical analysis, ever. 



Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:35 | 1711345 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

You've got a dirty mouth

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:53 | 1711428 eisley79
eisley79's picture

technicals only work in white swan land, its the fundamentals that matter, and they are the strongest they have been in modern human history for gold.  No market moves straight up, and corrections shall always occur, but that doesnt change fundamentals.

Capitalism, as corrupted as it was for the last 30 years, ended in 2008.  Anyone trying to "trade" gold on margin, or moving in and out, is bound to get hurt.  That's not investing, its gambling, and those people are missing the very point to hold own precious metals (real physical ones).  Doubly so in the post 2008, post capitalism world of so called "markets".


As soon as these things change, then the case against gold can hold water.

1.) Every major Company and Country, and all families, farms, and small businesses, would be just fine in a world where interests rates are their historical norms of 5-8%.  As long as there is so much debt, (which is completely unpayable), our financial system will never be sound.

2.) The actual physical economy is worth more than the total notional value of all derivatives in the world (not net neutral'd through counter parties, but add up both sides of all contracts)

3.) Money printing is limited, either by the people (through congress, read GREENBACK), or is backed by some underlying asset.

4.) Fractional reserve banking is illegal.


So, let me know when the case against gold is valid............

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:57 | 1711462 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Our war is a spiritual war.  We are here to regain our freedom and sovereignty.  We will use any means necessary.

We will speak truth to power.  We will write truth to power.  And we will take back what is rightfully ours. 

Ours is our labor, for it is ours and only ours.  We will not be taxed on such, for it is our inalienable right to keep our fruits when we so choose. 

Ours is our wealth, for it is ours when we so choose.

What they have done, what the criminal syndicate has done, is to manipulate the minds of our brothers and sisters into believing their lies.  Their ways are tricky, and the outcome is treacherous.  Now our brothers and sisters need our help, and we must to help ourselves.

Now we will take back our wealth, and take back our freedom, and take back our sovereignty.  We will do this all at once.  We will take back our wealth as we know it by taking back the money supply.  We will take back our freedom and sovereignty by speaking and writing and protesting the lies of the criminal syndicate.

Now we march to the drums of our forefathers, and their families, who gave their lives for us!  Now we take back the system that was created as an ideal.  Now we make the idea whole.

End the Fed!

Buy silver!

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:16 | 1711605 edotabin
edotabin's picture

In other news, that monitoring program concerning messages about the FED just overloaded after stumbling upon the prior post !

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:28 | 1711631 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Iin other other big brother news, indian phone companies will now limit all their clients to 100 sms'es a day. Whaaaat? Some really dumb justification for it too.

And this sms mad nation just swallowed this blanket order like one big mass of sheep.


And the snap-back in metals will be equally "vicious" to the upside. We will flail our way to $100 (today) dollars an Oz of Silver.


Watch this

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:22 | 1711638 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Here's a good overview of how gold reacts during a financial crash:

I liked gold at $1900. I love it at $1600. I'll marry it at $1100.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:24 | 1711647 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Let's double-date it at 1250

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:03 | 1711505 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Do you think that there exists some MAGICAL source of that 5-8% coupon you think you're entitled to???

They can only PAY YOU that if they can EARN it somewhere else!  Credit is supply and demand, man...why can't you people get this?

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:23 | 1711645 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Credit is supply and demand, man...why can't you people get this?


True, But you have to admit that the entire interest rate curve is being deliberately distorted.    Bernanke is buying the long end of the curve for a reason, in 'normal times' there is no way the 30 year should be under 4% for this shot-in-ass government debt

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:43 | 1711727 eisley79
eisley79's picture

entitled to ??  uhm, people are desperately praying it doesnt come, try more like 20-30% once the real money printing debacle runs its course.

You think people can print money endlessly and nothing happens?  I think you need to go back to Econ101 kid


The Historical averages are caused by market forces, not "entitlement".  People "invest" money and take risk, if the one who the risk is being taken on (the debtor), doesnt ante up, people wont buy. 


You think anyone wants US treasuries if they had a choice LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.   I got some ocean front property in Idaho to sell you.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:13 | 1711841 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Find me something ELSE that will reliably pay 4%.

If you can do that we can borrow at 0 and go do it and become insanely rich.

People "invest" money and take a risk and they hope to earn a higher ROI than they borrowed at.  All money is borrowed, remember?  The economy has to grow at a higher rate than the rate of interest.

A 0% aggregate interest rate suggests ZERO DEMAND for credit.  There is NFW a banker would lend at 0% unless he had no choice.  Chew on that one...

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 15:20 | 1712430 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Or infinite "money" on "deposit" ready to be lent out.

You never were very good at looking at both supply and demand at the same time.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 16:04 | 1712628 eisley79
eisley79's picture

a.) all money is debt, is the current system, you incorrectly state that as if its principle.  That is the very system that has failed, see my comments up...

b.) you seem to confuse modern educated gambling, and arbitraging (both things) as "investing".  To help you when your stupidity gets in the way, try thinking of an easy example.  Like when the railroads were built across the United States.  Debt is issued to build the railroad, those who invest in are paid interest for the risk of letting someone else have their money.  You are confusing cause and effect.  Debt is not a commodity, it has been commoditized....but its not a commodity.

c.) currently interest rates are being set, not being "determined by market factors".  A true 0 interest rate, would not imply a lack of demand for credit.  It would imply people were willing to give someone else their money and expect nothing in return.  The only reason that would occur, is capital preservation, and in the 0% case, not having the ability to preserve capital more safely elsewhere where rates arent 0%.  Such a thing could never occur in true free market conditions. 

But, when everyone and everything has more debt than they can possible pay back, and everyone knows it, AND when all accounts are settled in said debt (aka currency but its actually debt currently as you pointed out), then people are willing to do that which they dont want to.

Arbitrage then occurs when other people take advantage of this underlying problem, to extract "free money".  The only problem is, when the failed system causing that imbalance actual goes supernova, debt will show exactly what it truly is, and what it can do when it fails.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 16:35 | 1712811 trav7777
trav7777's picture

banks have always had infinite money to lend out, idjit.  They create money in our system.

Back in the 40s, the aggregate credit base was like $350B.  Now it is $52T. 

Demand is what sets rates

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 17:32 | 1713006 eisley79
eisley79's picture

lol, i'll be sure to save that one and keep quoting it to you.

i dont have time to educate you on how wrong a statement that is.  You dont have a clue, but keep reaching for that rainbow!

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 17:44 | 1713035 theotheri
theotheri's picture

>>You think people can print money endlessly and nothing happens?  I think you need to go back to Econ101 kid<<


Who is printing money endlessly?  The m3 supply levels off and the barberic relic goes parabolic.


Bingo!  There's no correction.  And it will keep correcting, down to its economic value of around $1000/oz.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:11 | 1711833 trav7777
trav7777's picture

the long bond does not dictate what the aggregate ROI is.

The economy cannot grow fast enough to generate the yield commensurate with the sovereign risk that is the USA.

Don't put the rate curve up there with what real interest rates should be...I submit that the 2% or whatever that the gov pays reliably is BETTER than what you could get if you went out and actually tried to DO something with the money.

There is no return to be had here anymore...anywhere.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 16:03 | 1712663 eisley79
eisley79's picture

for the very reasons that everyone said above when correcting your ignorance, you can see the result, now try to understand the cause.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 16:38 | 1712828 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I've already stated the cause, doofus.

Aggregate yields are ZERO. 

This is why brazil can have a 10% rate and we a 0 and we AREN'T seeing explosive growth!  There is no growth to be had here.  We're tapped out.  Same as Japan for 20 growth.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 17:29 | 1713003 eisley79
eisley79's picture

there is too much debt, that is why there is no growth, i realize i didnt say it clearly enough for you in the last post, so if you still dont get it, come out of the basement and ask your mom to explain it to you.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:27 | 1711880 HCSKnight
HCSKnight's picture

"Credit is supply and demand, "

Partly true, incomplete really.

It is the supply and demand of hope and belief.

If you doubt his, consider what happens if people no longer believe in paper currency or the rule of law.....

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 16:40 | 1712834 trav7777
trav7777's picture

nonsense.  ALL credit was demanded by people.

All of it.

When they stop demanding more credit because growth stops then rates attempt to cheapen credit to attract more borrowers.  This is what happened to Japan and it is happening here.

There is simply very little to do in the US and earn a positive ROI even at 0%.  Why the fuck would you when brazil has been exploding and you can fall in a hole down there and get rich?  They can support an interest rate over TEN percent!  That should tell you about their real growth rate and how immensely profitable in the aggregate their economic climate is that they can support a rate that high. 

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 17:30 | 1713004 eisley79
eisley79's picture

nope, you are confusing cause and effect, educate yourself

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:02 | 1711795 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Anyone that follows "technical analysis" is a complete idiot, as the MARKETS ARE RIGGED.  

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:54 | 1711989 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Markets are always rigged, on all time frames, all of the time.  Price is always being manipulated, or recovering from being manipulated. 

Your comment is half true.  Technical analysis is still useful for measuring the effects of price manipulation and figuring out the scam. 

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 14:06 | 1712050 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

You got it Smiddy, or for seeing the scam as it happens, and quickly reacting to it so it works for rather than against you.  I don't sit here watching the blinkenlights all day for nothin'.  The slow get taken for a ride, not the quick.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:42 | 1711377 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Staring at a chart in a manipulated paper market is kind of like fucking to get your virginity back. It doesn't work and it's a waste of time and it makes you make stupid ass decisions.

Regardless of that: I bought at $35... bought at $30... wasted all my dry powder. Damn, did I make a mistake? I don't necessarily think so.

I hope this lasts til Friday and I'm going to dump whatever else I can afford in. IMHO this is a short time period where opportunity knocks vigorously. I can't wait to see all the "targets" and "predictions" at the end of the year.

Hilarious how the vibe of ZH changes as prices of PMs go higher/lower. Lower: Everyone knew it was going to crash, Higher: Everyone knew it was going to go higher that's why they "had their calls in place months ago" when they themselves were admittedly "predicting" an absolute crash.

Only when the price drops 30%+ do you have jackasses come out of the wood work predicting another 47% loss "Back to $11 which is fair value jackasses!!!" or whatever the hell. They must have a really, really huge calculator. It's hilarious, even to the upside so to the downside. Nothing goes down forever (except BAC), especially not commodities like silver/gold/oil.

Buy while the buyin's good and it's still available for purchase. A lot of my vendors are completely out of stock.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:59 | 1711475 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

Physical above ground supplies/ Production ratio/ Price/Physical Demand

Everything else is Propaganda.

Remember that when you put your money down and buy more bars tomorrow.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:00 | 1711479 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Will, and do.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:07 | 1711529 Jason_1sandal
Jason_1sandal's picture

I would love to see silver at $11 ! It won't happen though. I hope it stays low til next friday that's when I can aquire more. Hopefully the local dealer has some in stock....


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 14:13 | 1712102 Argos
Argos's picture

Just got back from a visit to my local guy in Phoenix.  He had 1, 100 oz bar of silver.  He got cleaned out on Friday.  No estimate of when more will be coming in.  At least he was open.  I've been buying the dips for years.  I've never seen him out of silver before.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:03 | 1711803 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

we are in the 3rd inning of this perpetual crisis (3 years and counting).  Let's see how the PMs are faring at the bottom of the 9nth....

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 17:49 | 1713047 theotheri
theotheri's picture

Save the baseball metaphors for your 4th grade audience.  This is the real world.  Gold and silver are tanking NOW because the bubble has popped. Neither gold, nor silver, are safe haven assets. Both are wildly overvalued and the correction will continue.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:44 | 1711391 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Perhaps because he has acknowledged that PMs are no longer being moved by the regular manipulators?

Funny how you can only seem to find two errors after a whole year of amazingly accurate predictions.  I always thought it was a fools errand to try to make short term predicitons like he did, but he was amazing at it.  Yet here you are, butthurt as usual, expecting him to be some kind of psychic, which he NEVER claimed.  He has said on numerous occassions that he is "just a guy with a Macbook".  But you demand that he be fucking Edgar Cayce or something.

So sorry if technical analysis breaks down in the face of unexpected moves from the Fed that upend the entire economy from end to end.

You are a fucking joke.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:03 | 1711501 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Kind of reminds me of earlier this year when trav was ransacking you because you saw silver breaking $50 ... then there was 5 margin hikes in less than a few days and he said you were a jackass for making those kind of bold predictions when everyone knew it was overbought at 50 etc.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:54 | 1711764 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yeah, because IDIOTS only see the obvious in hindsight.  Lemmings are what you are...right off a cliff.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 14:02 | 1712031 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Yeah Trav.  You're not an idiot.

BTW, how's the zirconium cladding at Fukushima working out?

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 14:16 | 1712130 fuu
fuu's picture

<golf clap>

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 16:43 | 1712854 trav7777
trav7777's picture

well, let's see...according to the hysterics, we should have all been dead by now, right?

I mean, fuck...that was how long ago now?  And we're all still alive.  So maybe I was right in telling you people not to panic?  Yes, Fukushima was a hell of a catastrophe with immense issues, but it was NOT the end of the fucking world and not even close.

We had paranoid nutballs like mosely-claven suggesting that everyone in Tokyo would soon be dead or within a WEEK and shit.  Others saying similarly insane shit.

I was only saying don't panic and life goes on and this will not end the ocean or the world or life as we know it.  And I was right.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 17:51 | 1713051 theotheri
theotheri's picture

I can't believe it but I actually agree with this racist bastard. 

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 09:55 | 1714677 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"And we're all still alive."

Cancer takes a while to emerge.  In order to perceive it's appearance, data must be collected and analyzed.  Given the effectiveness of hiding the open air nuclear testing debacle from the 1950s, I expect that this data will be obscured as well.

"So maybe I was right in telling you people not to panic?"

Your message was that the problem was completely contained.

"Fukushima was a hell of a catastrophe"

See, again you try to obscure the truth.  Fukushima is on-going and intensifying.



Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:45 | 1711398 fuu
fuu's picture

We can always fondly recall your sub $1000 gold call last summer.

"On a long enough timeline, I'm sure gold will go up.  But that is of little consolation to those who are told to buy gold on a $17 dip, when there is a significant risk that a deflationary buzzsaw will price gold below $1000 in the next 9 months."


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:56 | 1711451 Dumpster Fire
Dumpster Fire's picture

hahahahaha owned fuck that guy

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:09 | 1711513 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture



Jesus Christ.  First of all, that's RNR, not me.  

Secondly, you're pulling quotes from July 2010 - before the announcement of QE2.  QE2 changed EVERYTHING.  If not for QE2, deflation would have ravaged this country, and gold would have been under $1000.  I'm sure when QE2 was commenced, RNR changed his opinion dramatically. Anyone would have.  

Third, neither RNR nor I happen to run a precious metals website. I don't pretend to be a professional, nor do I give investment advice.  Big difference.


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:18 | 1711623 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I see, so you are an armchair quarterback, and you admit that no-one should listen to you.  Got it.

Also, nice try on the lie that you aren't RNR.  No-one is falling for it.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:41 | 1711694 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Secondly, you're pulling quotes from July 2010 - before the announcement of QE2.  QE2 changed EVERYTHINGif not for QE2, deflation would have ravaged this country


LOL!!!!    Newsflash - Deflation is ravaging this county!    Also, why the heck do you think folks here invest in PMs?   Doesn't take a genius to guess that there will be infinite QEs, there are those of us here who anticipated it and more to follow.    BTW, if you understand Bernanke's work, the fate of the US Dollar once FDR unpinned it from gold in 1933 and the history of all fiat currencies, then you should know that the probability of fiat going to zero is greater than gold depreciating vis.a.vis an UNBACKED, fiat dollar

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:44 | 1711737 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

"QE2 changed EVERYTHING."

Yeah.  So do unprecedented, extreme margin hikes.  Actually, margin hikes generally affect things more, when you're talking about the dollar price of an asset traded on a futures exchange.  

But you're obviously not a trader, so I'm really unsure why you're even commenting. 

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:56 | 1711773 trav7777
trav7777's picture, you just lost a LOT of my respect by trying to claim you aren't RNR.  Everyone knows you are, ok?

It'd be like my coming on here with a little yellow smiley with the OTHER hand flipping the bird and a handle of "trav77777" and trying to pretend it wasn't really me...transparent.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:47 | 1711406 redpill
redpill's picture

Then let's see your charts and find out if they are any better, hater.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:07 | 1711535 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture



Um.... two months ago, when silver was between $35-$40, I told everyone that silver was going to $25. 

Was off by a buck.


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:15 | 1711604 redpill
redpill's picture

Oh please, because it momentarily crashes due to multiple margin hikes that you didn't anticipate or point to as a cause, and immediately is back up to ~$30 now, you think your prediction is meaningful?

To compare an off the cuff remark from months ago to daily-update charts from someone who often does pretty well, is petty and pathetic.  Should we comb back through all your posts and find out all the places where you were dead wrong, over and over?


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:26 | 1711657 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture



Every bubble floats around, looking for a pin prick, and no one ever knows what the actual pin prick will be.  The important part, though, is to notice the bubble when no one else does - unlike you guys who are blinded by metal worship and infatuation.  And at least I knew that it was headed down - in a big way - even if I didn't know when or why.  I knew the bubble would pop in due time.  

So while everyone was claiming silver would push through $50 and head toward parity with gold, I stayed out and was waiting for the pin prick.



Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:43 | 1711733 redpill
redpill's picture

You're an idiot.  The recent price moves in precious metals have nothing to do with bubbles.  Even if they were a bubble, the current movement would not an indication of it breaking.  It was a result of multiple margin hikes and is an inevitable consequence of that whether it is in a bubble or not.  If your prediction was superficially correct for one brief moment, it was by utter chance and nothing related to your moronic view that there is a bubble in silver or gold.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:57 | 1711780 trav7777
trav7777's picture

if they weren't bubblicious, why would a margin hike cause a price crash?

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 14:12 | 1712093 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Bubbles are not defined by the price just going up.  There's a whole lot more to it.  If the price of a stock goes up for ten years, is it a bubble or is it an Apple?  The easiest way to find out is to pop it.  Bubbles don't reinflate.  If gold and silver were bubbles, August would have put an end to them.  Sorry, no bubble. 

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 16:45 | 1712863 trav7777
trav7777's picture

uh...did you just go out of your way NOT to answer the fucking question?

how did a MARGIN HIKE cause a price crash if there was no bubbling (using DEBT to buy)?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 07:44 | 1714252 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Oh, are you still trying to argue with gold and silver bugs?

They live in a magical world where gold and silver bars have intrinsic value * infinity and nothing you can do or say will change their minds. Price goes down? Manipulation. Price goes up? TOLD YOU SO.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:32 | 1711896 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture



Silver was in the 40's.  Now it's in the 20's.  That's a fucking bubble, and the margin hike was the pin prick.

Not noticing the bubble beforehand is understandable - few see them. You're so blinded by your infatuation, that you can't even see it in hindsight - and that's pathetic.



Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:34 | 1711903 fuu
fuu's picture

You should update your avatar to include a massive head wound. Maybe the comb-over is hiding it, good mortician work that.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:58 | 1712012 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture



You should tell your wife to shave her arms before you bring her to the shooting range.


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 14:05 | 1712048 fuu
fuu's picture

I expected something better from a man of your education.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 17:54 | 1713056 theotheri
theotheri's picture

He will be proven correct soon. Silver is a massive bubble. It is only worth around $8/oz for industrial usage.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:50 | 1711416 sabra1
sabra1's picture

if these markets were not manipulated, what would the charts look like? take a few hours to think it over!!!

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:00 | 1711481 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Trying to recall what, if any, value you have provided to any conversation around here.  Have to done anything other than criticize? 

TF has repeatedly said some of his calls will be wrong.  He gives it his best shot.  Sometimes he's right; sometime not.  

So what prescient calls do have for the group, Lib?  Or do just complain and stir up shit? 

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 14:24 | 1712169 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Turd missed it, and so did everyone else.  So other than the fact that you have some kind of hard on for TF, what's your point...???


The S&P has retraced back to the numbers of Novemeber 2010, while gold retraced all the way back to...... July.  I know which one I'd rather be buying and holding -- you?

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 15:22 | 1712444 Joy on Maui
Joy on Maui's picture

If you rely on technical analysis to predict margin hikes in China etc while guiding you thru the currently massively manipulated market, you deserve what is coming to you.

Sure , Turd was wrong, but if you have some need to view someone, anyone, as infallible, omnipotent and all-powerful,, you may want to join the Catholic Church.  

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:30 | 1711323 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

I suspect that because gold is actually the only financial asset a central banker or government can successfully use to back their debt, they actually want it a lot higher.  If they use gold correctly as an asset, but don't go to a gold standard, they get to kick the can down the road for another 20 years.  Who cares if Greece has 400B in debt if they have 1 trillion in gold collateral?

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:37 | 1711353 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Spot on.  I think it will only be ten years before gold goes into a manic trade and becomes the ultimate (meaning final) bubble.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 14:25 | 1712175 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Yes but I can't agree with the ten year horizon.  They need to push the reset button before that or their fiat will print down to zero.  Letting that happen would endanger their grip on power, and create widespread asset destruction, and political and physical chaos.  They don't want you escaping your debt chains.  They will have to make their move soon and announce a new gold referrenced system.  How soon???? 

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:40 | 1711368 trav7777
trav7777's picture

my thesis here is based on trends I've seen over the past year in the euro/greece crisis.  When it's looked like the EUR was going to come apart, gold has risen sharply.  Given price action in some of the major european banks, especially DB and CS, along with the collapse in gold's price, it appears that some kind of bailout is afoot.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:44 | 1711392 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

And how would a bail out not be good for gold?

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:58 | 1711782 trav7777
trav7777's picture

diff btwn LT and ST, dood

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 15:28 | 1712469 covert
covert's picture

the understand that gold is the basis 4 all currency, aka the golden rule.


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:20 | 1711291 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

So, somebody picked up some gold on the cheap from some weak hands.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:38 | 1711335 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Blythe don't surf!


I love the smell of manipulation in the morning.  You know, one time we had gold bombed, for two weeks.  When it was all over, I walked up.  We didn't find one of them, not one stinking manipulater body.  The smell, you know that smell, the whole trade.  Smelled like.....victory.  Someday this war's gonna end.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:40 | 1711292 Duffminster
Duffminster's picture

The goldman anaylst fails to make mention of coordinated margin hikes on silver, the most efficient lever to manipulate gold prices, by China and the COMEX and what is likely Central Bank chart painting in my opinion. 

It is apparent that the Central Banks believe and the coordinated actions of the G20 include trying to persuade investors that gold and silver are not money in the face of is what likely to be QE to Infinity and Beyond in both the US and Europe to bail out the TBTF financial amalgamations'  toxic asset laden balance sheets in my opiion.

He also doesn't mention that silver was already flirting with backwardization and is now most certainly in full backwardization as we start the historically most bullish quarter for physical demand.  I'm certain that those in India and Asia who waited to make their purchases for a price pull back are delighted and will be buyng hand over fist after options expiration.  

I wonder if the Fed is trying to project the idea that "Full on Deflation is Here" and "Now is the Time to sell anything and everything" or if the chart painting operations are meant to signal something else.   

If the Fed wants to make all assets rise in price, they should be buying gold, not trying to make the inflation baramoter drop to support the dollar and the yuan.  

Well, with Summers being a primary contributor to the sell gold to keep interest rates low paradigm, the Fed and China may have bought into this idea so deeply that they are ignoring all common sense.  I believe Summers modified the theory known as Gibson's paradox and was a huge proponent of his theory during the Greenspan era.

Whether its Deflation followed by Default or longer term dollar and euro devaluation via ongoing debt monetization, one thing is certain; in the long run, fiat currencies backed only by hot air and debt will be worth less and ultimately, in the longer term, and as has always been the case throughout the history of the civilized world, the bi-metal standard of money, gold and silver will hold value, despite any and all machinations by the new One World Government. 

Gives new meanaing to the last Summer Olympic Slogan "One World One Dream" doesn't it?


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:43 | 1711379 trav7777
trav7777's picture

let's recall the initial Greece default scare, where gold went vertical.  The EUR's "inflation" trade seems to run opposite of the POG, whereas the USD seems to be parallel to it.  Weakening of the euro seems to cause gold price weakness.

Go figure, but that's what's been up lately

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:50 | 1711422 tmosley
tmosley's picture

God, stick your foot a little further down your throat, why don't you?  Sort of like you did with that "silver is correlated with oil" nonsense.  The first thing I heard on the news today was more Greek default scare, yet here we are with gold having acted violentily in the opposite direction of where your thesis claims it should have gone.

I like it when you actually make predictions.  It shows how stupid you are, much more so than when you play the super-easy role of critic and Monday-morning quarterback.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:01 | 1711791 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Cliff, it's not my problem you cannot follow along and are relegated to "SILVER TO DA MOONZ" pumping bullshit that has not only made a complete fool out of you but created bagholders who have lost everything!

Silver IS correlated to oil, dipfuck- it is PRIMARILY an industrial metal.

Greece default?  HAHA...I am suggesting to you that within the next week or so you will find out how Greece isn't going to default.  I'm suggesting that you let price predict the future for you the same as it did on Mar 6 when the QE announcement was still in the future.

The real problem here is that retards like you think that if YOU couldn't figure something out that it is unfigurable and anyone who DID predict it must have been guessing and they just had better luck than you did.  That is the Downing Effect, something you suffer badly from.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 15:25 | 1712454 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Lost everything?  If they listened to me, they still have a pile of physical silver, and will be buying more on Wednesday.  Are you really trying to tell us that silver is going to continue to go straight down, as oversold as it is?

Your mind is made of fail and doublethink.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 17:54 | 1713059 theotheri
theotheri's picture

The margin hike occured AFTER the crash fella.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:23 | 1711294 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

I'm posting this one more time today in case some ZHers missed it:

It is most definitely the video of the day and maybe week...


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:31 | 1711326 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

He'll never be on 'See'in BS' news network thats for sure!

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:46 | 1711404 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Vid is from Max Keiser's site.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:31 | 1711327 Híppos Purrós
Híppos Purrós's picture

Wow.  Thank you for that.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:41 | 1711369 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

gs rules the world. wow. you don't see that on the msm very often.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:41 | 1711371 macholatte
macholatte's picture


GS rules the world.

He said it on the BBC. The talking heads had no clue what he meant. They were just looking for some pablem and a band-aid.  It would be funny if not so tragic.


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:43 | 1711384 Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

Good vid.  I am surprised you don't have tons of thumbs up/green arrows on this post. 

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:08 | 1711542 Fedophile
Fedophile's picture

He's so bearish I see bulls.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:21 | 1711296 jjsilver
jjsilver's picture

It was manipulation in 2008 and it's manipulation now.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:36 | 1711350 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

While I was mildly surprised at the extent of the drop in 2008, this doesn't phase me in the least.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:21 | 1711299 Robslob
Robslob's picture



Where are those damn talking bears when you need them...

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:35 | 1711697 I did it by Occident
I did it by Occident's picture

Yes, i'm eagerly awaiting the next episode. 


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:22 | 1711302 HyperinflatmyNutts
HyperinflatmyNutts's picture

Load up Bitches!!!!

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:58 | 1711426 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Locked and loaded, copy

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:24 | 1711304 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

"The only positive item about this is the Fed is protecting banks and allowing them to continue to keep inflated appraisals on their shadow inventory.  Some have now fallen in love with the mistress of moral hazard.  This financial situation is unsustainable and these low rates are a siren call for our economy.  These low rates are not here because things are healthy.  Low rates are here because the financial markets are a mess and the Fed only knows how to protect its banking allies. "


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:24 | 1711305 SaveTheGreenback
SaveTheGreenback's picture

Yeah, the dollar "strength" of late is an illusion.  The dollar is rallying because everything else on paper is closer to the end.

It's not that hard to understand.  If the sheeple are able to hoard all the physical, it makes it harder for Ben and Timmah and the banksters (JPM...cough) to "save" the banking system a la QEX.  So they force the COMEX and ChiCOMEX  into margin hikes to scare the sheeple into selling.

Stay strong.  Buy physical.



Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:33 | 1711340 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Well the dollar strength may be an 'illusion' just for now the least crappy of all the worthless fiat currencies, however its still a big problem for the FED.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:37 | 1711701 I did it by Occident
I did it by Occident's picture

It's like we're going toward the event horizon of a blackhole. 

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:25 | 1711310 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Full on silver reversal in the making....

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:35 | 1711344 duo
duo's picture

started the minute I sold my AGQ calls.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:43 | 1711382 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Volume on the AGQ looks good.  Friday's close looks like the inflection point.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:39 | 1711351 achmachat
achmachat's picture

don't know about that, it's a bit too early to tell.

meanwhile I took advantage of these cheaper prices to shop for some bullion, as we're back to the prices of when I started buying physical.

Did you know there's a pretty 1 troy ounce legal tender .999 silver coin from Armenia with Noah's arc on them? Just ordered some tubes and looking forward to adding them to the stash next week.

edit: the tubes come in a beautiful fancy wooden box, makes you feel like a pirate.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:26 | 1711312 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Its 2008 all over again, but in the meantime, lets stage some big equity rallies!

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:27 | 1711317 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

the game is not over. far from it.............oh yes it is correct. for you see, they have fixed nothing. absolutley nothing and frankly they are not going to fix anything and never why would the game be over?   the game is just starting.....both silver and gold......

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:28 | 1711319 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

My appetitate for risk is waning. The spot price of silver is about at the level I bought in at in November of 2010. These guys hate high PM prices, they really are masters of their own universe.

If Gold falls to $1100 like Faber said it could, I don't know if I will ever invest in anything ever again. Think about all the seniors that bought physical gold because they couldn't get any yield investing in money markets, CDs, etc... they are getting slaughtered once again after losing faith in the equity markets after two major crashes in less than a decade.

Financial Repression/Benocide must end!

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:32 | 1711333 Cdad
Cdad's picture

People holding physical gold are NOT getting slaughtered, baby BLYTHE.  They are watching paper gold being gamed by the criminal syndicate Wall Street banking cartel [getting blown out of GLD].  I don't think physical holders give a shit about the GLD.

Physical holders of gold and silver will, in the end, inherit the Earth...and I think they know it.

Prepare for the return of the silver bulls.  I think that one just bottomed....or is very, very close.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:44 | 1711396 trav7777
trav7777's picture

dude, physical IS TRADING at near the spot price, each and every day.

You people need to stop bleating this nonsense!

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:49 | 1711417 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Things wont always be the way they always were.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:52 | 1711430 Cdad
Cdad's picture


My point, and obviously so, was that the holders of those coins and bars ARE NOT TRADING.  

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:55 | 1711444 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Your foot is so far in your mouth, you're shitting jackboot waffle.  

Silver products are disappearing from online retailers, and those that are left have increased their premiums.  You have to buy 500oz to get spot+$2.50 on no-name rounds at APMEX.  No scratch and dent, no "shippers choice" rounds, no junk silver below $100 face, no ASEs.

Christ, get over yourself.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:07 | 1711811 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Silver is disappearing from your TEXAS SHARPSHOOTER CHERRYPICKED online retailers.

There is no shortage of silver, moron.  Fuck APMEX.  If you don't like their prices, BUY ELSEWHERE (and you can).  You continually cite ONE retailer as if they are the entire universe.  Not only is that tactic pathetic, but it is laughably dishonest, like you are.

You are so fucking stupid that it constantly amazes me.  You keep bleating predictions hoping desperately that one of them will EVER come true.  Even a stuck clock is right more frequently than you are, bitch


edit:  CNI has oodles of silver.  They are only out of Canadian wolves.  ROTFL, you fkin idiot

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 14:42 | 1712269 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Even a stuck clock is right more frequently than you are, bitch

LOL, Trav is off his meds again.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 15:30 | 1712486 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I cite APMEX pecause they have up to the minute inventory data posted online AND they are the largest PM retailer in the US.  Your other retailers don't do that, and they aren't nearly as large.  They post a list of what they "normally" have, but have exactly jack and shit when you call them to place an order. is one such website, as you would know if you bothered to call them.  At least they have finally updated their website to show that they don't have COMEX deliverable bars.

Sorry your life is utter shit :(

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:44 | 1711395 DonnieD
DonnieD's picture

Gold was over $1,000 prior to the financial collapse in 2008. We are currently up 60% from that level. I would hardly call that a bubble. But the value geeks will tell you all day long that the bubble has popped. Since when is a 60% move in 3 years bubble territory? How come no one ever claims the price of diamonds is a bubble?

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:51 | 1711429 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

I firmly believe Gold is not a bubble. When we have price swings like this however, everyone and their brother comes out saying 'See, I told you so! How can gold be a safe store of value with violent price swings of 15-20%'. Especially when it comes to discussions of how a future gold standard could emerge from the ruin of fiat currencies worldwide.

No doubt weaker hands will be shaken by the violent moves of late in the PM complex. At this point it is hard for me to see gold get back near $2,000 without an outright expansion of the FED balance sheet (QE3).

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:57 | 1711456 Cdad
Cdad's picture

If it is bubbles you be lookin' need look no further than the US consumer discretionary sector.  There, you have a damn bubble factory....this as the entire global economy slides into the tank, and more and more folks flush out of their homes.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:03 | 1711804 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

"outright expansion of the FED balance sheet (QE3)."

Take a wild guess who's helping fund this.  And this doesn't even take into account additional domestic easing that's likely to occur when we get the initial Q3 GDP showing a negative print.  

The people that sold here are going to greatly regret it. 

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 14:46 | 1712291 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Yes, if they want to continue kicking the can, they have to print.  Although I doubt they will call it QExx.  They can call it anything they want, no printing means the can kicking comes to an end and that's good for PMs. 

On the other hand, the end of can kicking means the end of our current system.  That is very good for PMs.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 14:16 | 1712126 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Gold will be a store of value at the end of the game.  The only question I would ask is:  "How do I get to the end of the game with gold in hand?"

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:00 | 1711480 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Faber never said anything about gold being $1,100, he said he will be buying at these prices because he believes gold is oversold.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:28 | 1711321 rfullem
rfullem's picture

my worry is that this guy is your standard self-acclaimed genius gold bug that bought gold in 2006 and 2008-11 because hedge funds were buying it or read fancy research  over saem time about big macro cycles. If he bought in 2001-2003 because he could clearly foresee the global reflation picture or macro cycles, then at least he has some creds.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:30 | 1711324 Zola
Zola's picture

I was reading some article by a newsletter writer claiming he was so "smart" to forecast the decline and that in no way the gold market was manipulated. He obviously did not explain how gold magically went down when the Swiss central bank intervened in the CHF and the fact iself that gold matches so closely expected retracements is in my mind HIGHLY SUSPECT. A free market does not behave in this way.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:34 | 1711342 pupton
pupton's picture

What about Clive Maund?  That guy thinks he's slicker than shit for calling the silver take down on Sep 18.  To his credit he appears to be 100% correct, but did he just get lucky with the timing of the margin hikes?  What do you guys think of his analysis/knowledge?


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:15 | 1711598 Cliff Claven Cheers
Cliff Claven Cheers's picture

A broken clock is right twice a day.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:08 | 1711824 trav7777
trav7777's picture

...which is still more than tmoseley

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:32 | 1711328 monopoly
monopoly's picture

NEM an excellent tell as to where we are going IMHO>

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:32 | 1711330 Belarus
Belarus's picture

And in other news: macro data falls off a cliff, check. G-20 admits Greek will default. Check. Europe contagion will happen, check. Markets rally on this news, check. 

Same broken world, same broken markets. 

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:32 | 1711332 It is a bargin ...
It is a bargin my friend's picture

"Due to operational difficulties the London Gold Exchange is permanently closed for business.
Thanks to all of our members.

London Gold ExchangeInternational Digital Currency Trader


Permanent ?

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:37 | 1711357 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Well, isn't that interesting.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:43 | 1711387 pupton
pupton's picture

Holy crap!  That has to be a hack.  Otherwise TS just HTF!

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:55 | 1711443 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Also Kitco gold charts are 'service unavailable' too.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:48 | 1711961 Jason_1sandal
Jason_1sandal's picture

I was able to get into KITCO Charts....

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:06 | 1711525 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:58 | 1711468 Kina
Kina's picture

Misplaced their gold?

"permanently" closed....huh???

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:08 | 1711546 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Very strange indeed.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:03 | 1711502 jjsilver
jjsilver's picture

They couldn't keep up with all the demand for paper gold

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:34 | 1711334 Johnny Lawrence
Johnny Lawrence's picture

What's amazing to me is that this gold sell-off came only weeks after every big brokerage firm increased their price targets for gold.

"When all the experts and forecasts agree, something else will happen."  -- Bob Farrell

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:07 | 1711534 jjsilver
jjsilver's picture

That's not amazing, that is called pump and dump. Seriously, this is classic cartel mo. People have to understand they want to destroy the people's wealth.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:33 | 1711337 Kina
Kina's picture

Get the feeling that if you live in the US you might want to hold your gold overseas. TPTB are doing their best to shake all and sundry out of gold.


The US most certainly heading into a great depression, guaranteed. No saviours left. Japan stuffed. Europe will contract and have its own depression. China has got debt and inflation problems, they will be shrinking GDP growth.NOthing left to do except print to pay the bills.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:36 | 1711346 SaveTheGreenback
SaveTheGreenback's picture

I am getting raped by SLV and AGQ in my IRA....the paper market is not for everyone and I would have been wiser to stay out as per the advice of many including Faber, Sprott, and others...

I bought AGQ in July at $240.00 but I'm selling until I double my money...

There's nothing to do now but enjoy the ride back up...assuming the security is still listed on the exchange in the next few months....that's what I'm worried about most....

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:36 | 1711347 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Remember ol' Hal Lindsay warned us about this some months ago that we'd see equity markets wildly swinging contrary to all news 2% up and down daily, AND that they'd mash PM's way way down as a sign of 'the big one' right around the corner.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:36 | 1711348 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I concur Mr. Dhabalia

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:42 | 1711376 digalert
digalert's picture

When gold & silver threaten the criminal banksters they merely raise margins to show who's in charge. Smacking anyone that's not comfortable with FIAT. Why then, when oil is too high, CONgress hauls big evil oil execs on the carpet to explain their ill-gotten gains? MSM joins the chorus against evil big oil. Can't they just raise margins on oil? Unless big evil oil owns government?

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:43 | 1711388 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Did someone leak QE3??

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:56 | 1711455 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

3 strikes and Bernank is out on QE3...if they want more rumors theyll have to skip to QE4.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:55 | 1711403 Kokulakai
Kokulakai's picture


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