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Gold/Silver Plunge-fest
Gold down over $100, and Silver down over 15% - someone is liquidating. Rumors vary from very prominent hedge funds to Central European (as in geographically) central banks. Bottom line is, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point and will continue until every last seller is out, and until the margin calls end.
UPDATE: Silver <$30 -17%
Charts: Bloomberg
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Get back to me after the $250 swing days.
hi i.m terry and i sold 40 of my ASE'S today because of the dreadful price drop. I am amazed that no one else on here has sold out their physical silver yet..
you must all be a proper set of yankee fuckwits LOL
I trust world-wide demand for PMs more than the stability of treasury yield.
Can't wait to see what happens when that shoe drops. . .
And you terry are the typical unsophisticated invester that helps keep the big boys rich. When prices are high, you buy and when prices are low, you sell. You sold today based on fear.
Personally I prefer to buy when prices are low, and sell when they are high - but what do I know?
Because smart people buy high and sell low, eh?
Hi Terry, please add /sarc/ tags to your posts from now on, for the benefit of every single one of those that awarded you a red arrow.
Seems you ain't the worst fuckwit around.
I guess you must be privy to some mysterious knowledge that the FX markets are blind to?
>>Gold and silver are the real money and always have been. Currency is backed only by debt and extremely poor government policies will always become worth less and throughout history, that has always been true and will continue to be so.<<
Gold is only worth something as jewellery. $1000/oz. The printing press has stopped. People don't want your rocks anymore you idiot. They want dollars so they can go out and buy things like groceries and clothes.
I wonder how long before ZH closes down? I know that Tyler Hedgehog went balls deep with all his nickels at $1900.
Well you better tell Ben because he's promising low, low rates through 2013.
You sad pathetic man.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, Son.
>>Gold and silver are the real money and always have been. Currency is backed only by debt and extremely poor government policies will always become worth less and throughout history, that has always been true and will continue to be so.<<
Gold is only worth something as jewellery. $1000/oz. The printing press has stopped. People don't want your rocks anymore you idiot. They want dollars so they can go out and buy things like groceries and clothes.
I wonder how long before ZH closes down? I know that Tyler Hedgehog went balls deep with all his nickels at $1900.
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2011/09/23/fund-redemptions-topped-...
Liquidation, even in bonds, and yet Treasuries surge. Uhuh.
You want to be careful here. What are the winners in this manipula-fest? US Treasuries and US dollars.
Greatest glutted supply of US IOUs in the history of the world, backed by a fast diluting currency in a contracting economy of a savaged-post industrial nation. A US dollar which is printed and distributed at will by a small cabal of intriguers and bankers who redistribute according to THEIR whims.
And the metals are pounded harder than any other sector.
Would you wish to sell your metals here? 5000 year history as a durable currency to be exchanged for unbacked paper which is constantly diluted to be redistributed to the unproductive parts of a corrupt society?
What if this action is to force liquidation of large numbers of PM holders (just when all the swap lines and US orchestrated stability funds are in place), and then enact an instantaneous, overnight global recapitalization which results in instant fiat devaluation?
Lose 20% temporarily in PMs or 75% in global fiat currencies?
You didn't think TPTB would make it easy did you, without any "shock and awe" ground-softening artillery before the invasion?
You hold dollars instead of PMs, you hold THEIR game piece which can be revalued infinitely to suit their disposition.
Better to consider yourself already deadmen in this economic warfare. Your markers of past labours are to be confiscated while they are still in your hot little hands.
The globe is bankrupt many times over. There is no move to reform, perfect, or remodel. This is scorched earth economics.
Those who do not, but hold power in the system of their own design, shall extract ALL from those who do.
is this the pm confiscation?
a voluntary confiscation based on stupidity?
shrewd.
Nice post.
excellent post, TPTB can take the value of the million FRN's in your hand without actually taking the paper it's printed on........
Very well said all around Alexandre.S.
ORI
EVERYBODY !!!!!!
HEDGE FUNDS, SOVEREIGNS...EVERYBODY !!!
The question is WHERE? Tyler and other knowledgable folk, it is time for Poop to finally start to PM accumulation. Please advise on the best place to buy online for home delivery. THANKS!
APMEX easy and reliable, with good margins. Can't really go wrong.
Tulving and Provident Metals also come to mind, but I have no experience with either.
APMEX has proven to be utterly reliable and fairly priced, never had an issue with delivery.
Thanks everyone for the suggestions!!!
Provident's my source (www.providentmetals.com). I just placed 2 orders with them the past 2 days.
But act quickly -- they're already out of stock on the items I purchased or they're delayed like the silver eagles and 10oz bars -- and I didn't clean them out by a long shot... someone else/other people have.
Crazy with all the "liquidation" going on I can't seem to find a good consistent source of supply today.
Your local branch of the Royal Bank of Canada is good if you live in small town Canada like me.
Buy coins and bars right from the mint. Price based on the last London Gold Fix price + a premium ($4 an ounce on silver 1 ounce coins) + a delivery charge of $15 for any amount.
They did charge HST (sales tax) on coins but not on bars but I think this has changed, ask the bank for the latest rules.
Seem like these guys were'nt surprised and know where its going
http://eideticresearch.com/whats-recent.html
Thanks for the belly laugh.
Deleted
Sorry, it is NOT liquidation. This is the manipulation of the world PM markets.
Look at the gold chart
Can a single, even a large hedge fund PM liquidation create such a substantial PM price drop? NO!
Consequently, it is the Central Banking cartel and their agents are driving price down cleaning "weak hands" and speculators. This downfall will be sharp and short lived since there will be buyers as PM prices plunge.
This could be the last opportunity to buy. The Central Banks will run their currencies printing presses hot, otherwise, they will lose control of everything they worked for the last 200 years.
cleared
cleared
George Soros has spoken!!
this is my take- let me know if i'm wrong. (1) IF someone, (cb's, people, countries), would sell a Gazillion tons of gold OR silver, wouldn't there have to be a buyer for said gazillion tons? and wouldn't that exponentially keep(or level/stabilize) the price worldwide? (2) If someone would sell a gazillion "shares" of GLD, (backed by ONLY a ton of real physical) then wouldn't that cause what we're seeing now with the price drop? (3) who in the hell is selling, and who in the hell is buying? just askin, not that i'm worried, i only have a 1/2 ton GMC pickup to back up. btfd amigos....
I just liquidated in my pants for being long.
this is short term...some one liquidates.. someone buys.. and with EVERYONE waiting for a DIP to buy.. well.. the dip is in a reverse bubble ;)
I am looking at PHS.U and CEF - both are looking very attractive to buy. I hope PHS.U gets to about 12.50 and CEF to 16.50 - then I'm buyin! There is some tremendous sales on right now!
Ratio of buyers to sellers of PHS.U is currently 7-1!
usually, when I am long, I can't liquidate until I am short...
That's strange. I liquidate while I'm still long, then get short (and usually fall asleep).
You're talking small liquidations, I'm talking big liquidations...
One of you is talking about silver, and the other about gold.
Gold, Jerry! Gold!
i've been a short long many times, and i've been a long short also. the latter causes a tad bit of anxiety though.
Wrong Shorts?
Look at it from the bright side... you might have lost your whole equity, but people like me made 100% returns in the last few days.
who ever it is.. thanks for the DIP..
U-Haul rental rates up 20% today...
Back 'er up!
Just look at it as a back to school sale.
pods
Somebody's getting schooled.
BTFD
Great idea, if you know where the bottom of the "D" is. Someone here, can't remember who, said $33 yesterday. So, there you go...
this is starting to hurt
Still sticking with your gold $3000 and silver $100 by the end of the year call?
pull that one out of your ass did you? I never made any such calls. The only thing I am on record predicting is QE3 early 2012.
Nice try, but I remember specifically you calling for $100 silver (by the end of the summer, I believe you said) and gold $3000 by the end of the year. I remember because I responded that gold would be closer to $1000 than $3000 and you said that I should be prepared to have my head handed to me. The reason I remember is because you were so cock-sure about it. Granted, we have some time before the end of the year, and that's why I asked if you were sticking with your call.
nice try? just searched through my comment history and cannot find any such statement you are reffering to. If you can find it and prove that I was bullshitting, I will lay my sword at your feet. I do, however, remember making the "head handed" statement that was specifically related to equities (for which I gave no price target), I just said we were going lower.
I'm too lazy to search my comment history, and it's not important enough to me to spend the time doing it. I remember it quite clearly, though, because I thought, man, I hope she doesn't go all in on that because she's likely to get burned. I did get junked for the comment I made, though, and you were quite adamant in your response, so it stuck with me. I've been junked every time I suggested that linear extrapolation was a bad way to forecast anything, including PMs. But whatever. I hope you aren't getting wiped out. I'm a fan of yours because you're young and you're paying attention, and that puts you way ahead of 98% of the population regardless of age. I was trying to share some insight about being so cock-sure in an environment of such uncertainty. Sorry if I came across as a smartass, but that's my nature, especially when I see someone who is so sure of their position that they can't open their mind to other possibilities. There's a lesson here for all of us.
fair enough (didn't junk). No, not getting wiped out as I hold physical only. bought the majority of my gold between $1060-1400. All my silver bought $18-26. These violent swings just give more fodder to those that say PMs could never back the currency even if/when the moves have nothing to do with overall fundamentals.
I'm glad you're not getting plumbed. There was a guy on here back in the spring when silver was trading at $46 on the way up who said he was selling everything to go all in on silver, was even going to max out his credit cards as well. I can't remember who it was, but that guy is probably puking blood right now.
I know you'll keep paying attention, and hopefully some of your classmates will listen to you. These are epic times and people like you will be leading the rebuilding efforts in 10-20 years. We need more like you.
Looks like NOW is the time to start buying. Not good enough to max out cards though. If it should drop to $26 in the next few weeks though, just might go there.
At this low price, i'm going to liquidate my fiat money!
I'm liquidating fiat, and LOVING it.
I just bought lots of silver Maples, and gold Maples.
PLEASE, please let the price fall some more!
Yeah im getting slaughtered here, yikes, doubled down a few times too...whooops. Should be ok, what goes down must come up, and what goes down 17% really must come up.
Silver Gold ratio is 53+/1
Switching some back over this afternoon.
As Bix Weir says, they can put the price of silver at 0 or 10,000 in one day with one computer keyboard. But generally they only seek to "manage" the price for policy and profit.
But surely a move this radical smacks of desperation, because they risk creating a physical shortage, the likes of which could unhook paper from physical.
Turd is looking for silver at $26, may deplete the COMEX at that price.
The Asians will buy all the available physical they can, which may very well be all of it.
This sell-off sets the stage for the sovereign debt crisis to begin.
$26 is my target on the chart too. Somebody offer the best way to jump back in at that point ? There's not much time..could get there in a hour or 5 minutes ? Levered long 3x maybe ?
Don't jump bitches !!
Worthless fiat paper currency is looking safer than paper gold and paper silve right now.
$26 is the Jan low. There SHOULD be significant support there. We might get to find out next time the markets panic.
tyler tried to warn you pm long lemmings....
what utter bs. All ZH have been talking about is gold to $2000+
you're a fucking moron who doesn't pay attention.
tylers have been calling for liquidation/margin calls for the last week, you obviously selectively choose what you read here.
Paulson
But...everyone here loaded up their silver and gold trucks yesterday. What of today?
Not me, I went to cash and I stayed in cash. I can't brag though, I had to slap my hand away from the keyboard to keep from catching the falling knife (twice).
I'm one of those people that buys the fucking dips so yeah, what of today? Great opportunity to... buy the fucking dip.
I bought yesterday with 50% of my cash position... I bought today with the remainder. I only pray it's at $15 on Monday so I can liquidate everything I own and go all in.
I should be so lucky.
..Guess that liquidity draining event arrived...
Ha...Ha
Ear to ear baby.
your blog said u went to cash yesterday
I'm short 3 contracts, re-read. I went short @ 1745 last night @ 11:30 PM, it's posted.
also said u covered that short...3 fuckin contracts if u have 2M? Fuck man, go short balls deep
I thought it was gona' bounce and than I was going to throw the whole nut on it. I missed the big move I was waiting for. Now I have to refigure this shit out because now it's oversold and I'm not shorting into an oversold asset
Nice job Bob !
IMA hafta look at the technicals to determine that at the close today...I'd also like to see a double bottom on some clear relative strength divergence.
I must say we get along a lot better since you started being RIGHT about something. Among the active posters here, we were in a select few who said that gold was way overbought up in the 1900s.
Well, I just looked at the techs and I don't see a clear daily O/S condition on gold at the present time. Hella MACD but that doesn't suggest much other than the steepness of the slide should mitigate. 200DMA support is $100 below here.
i always had you pegged for scum.
It's always nice when the entire sock hydra shows up in one thread.
Just picked up some 90% junk this morning. SLW next week. These markets are such a racket -- I love volatility. BTFD ZHers!
What did you get the junk at?
Local or internet?
My local guys tend to not want to sell at the same mark ups (downs) when these types of falls happen. Can't blame them. So physical tends to come down alot slower, kinda like a 50 dma rather than spot.
pods
providentmetals.com has decent prices on junk silver...i bought some there today.
Thanks! Cash price is at melt. That is nice.
pods
Oh well. So much for the new Reserve Currency being backed by Gold :)
Sure, if gold were to back the new Reserve Currency, central banks would be trying to drive prices up on themselves, right?
Sorry, that doesn't hold water.
or, instead of the fakeout we've all come to know and love, it's the dreaded shakeout
29 handle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoBFhdeR9PE
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2011/09/net-asset-value-of-cert...
Hope it's not China.
Love hurts.
I should have listened to Mike Maloney when he said get physical and DO NOT get caught up with margin accounts. I'm afraid I lost everything I had in silver because of this drop. It doesn't matter how much it was, but it's all gone.
What a harsh lesson this can be, I wouldn't to wish this onto anyone.
Goodluck to the rest of you.
The harsh lesson is anything can go down, just like we learned in housing.
Housing only goes up in Canada - don'ya know?
Only as long as the government continues deficit spending.
Man, I am very sorry to hear it.
Sorry to hear that man. Hope it's not fatal.
Good luck to your future.
Ouch. Take the painful lesson, work hard, and come back soon :-) Remember, there are more important things in life than money.
mosely-claven creates another bagholder...people really need to be careful who they listen to
This guys been hurt big time and all you can do is thump your chest about being right (for the second time this year loser)... how about you just shut the fuck up!
No hurt here. My cost average is less than $17. I PREDICTED this would happen, and that events like this would become more and more frequent as the exchanges fall apart. But Trav has a personal vendetta because he is a worthless loser who externalizes all the problems in his life. This is why he has totally alienated everyone in his life, and has to use the internet to stroke his little ego.
when this shit starts , look who shows up and starts trolling........
Didn't say I was right at all and that was certainly not my point.
My point is that those who shamelessly pump and the board that shuns everyone who dissents with the orthodoxy of the pumper bullshit need to be called out for who they are and taken out to the woodshed.
Even today, anyone who doesn't shamelessly pump PMs as a generational buy at every price level is criticized by the board echo chamber. That shit needs to stop. It created a bagholder who lost everything. I'm sure he came onto ZH and got confirmation bias from idiots who may as well have had a pecuniary interest in divorcing him from his hard-earned money.
"It created a bagholder who lost everything. I'm sure he came onto ZH and got confirmation bias from idiots who may as well have had a pecuniary interest in divorcing him from his hard-earned money."
Fuck him for taking advise from a message board over due dilligence.
Trav lies again. I have said, TIME AND FUCKING TIME AGAIN to stay the fuck away from paper, that this drop was coming, and that you will get liquidated. Physical only, cost averaged.
You are a tiny weak man, and feel the need to boost your ego by spreading lies about others. You deserve your shit life.
It takes a small man to kick someone when they're down, too. I bet trav is the kind of punk who treats waiters badly too. Hey Trav, you know they pecker whip your toast in the kitchen, right?
Trav is just one head of the sock hydra brigade.
He's the peak oily sock.
yep...I'm a psyop. I admit it.
I am from the CIA's division of "Making Fools of People on the Internet."
This is y'all's standard response to anything you don't like...ad hominem and a clinically paranoid one at that.
True enough. The mere suggestion that PMs are subject to deflationary influences has gotten me junked every time. This is a beautiful description, pithy, even.
This is y'all's standard response to anything you don't like...ad hominem and a clinically paranoid one at that.
You definitely have to use some discretion with who you listen to. There are a lot of intelligent folks who comment in this forum, and probably many more who read it and don't comment, but the groupthink amongst the linear extrapolators is prevalent.
Yes TM has always been against the paper gold and silver.
Hey, I made some good money in the trade, and I gave a little back. I am thankful I didn't get burned and sorry for those who did.
It's not your paper you are trading, it's THEIR paper, and they can take it away any time they want.
Personally, I only take financial advice from yellow men flipping everyone the bird.
Thank god I had just fineshed swallowing some hawaiian punch or I would have needed a new keyboard . That made me burst out loud laughing.
Hey wait a second
BOLL ... a new acronym ... Im the sickest koala on the planet
Step #1 is already accomplished, you admitted you misused margin, didn't adhere to a stop, and took responsibility for the trade rather than blaming someone else.
Grats, you are now a better trader than 90% of the gamblers in the markets.
Time to stop trading, gather a new stake, and take care of your health and happiness. The markets will still be here when you get back.
Welcome to ZH new guy (ZDRuX)
Gratz on your 19th week here...
You should have listened to the board and Mike...when you buy physical it is a sunk cost...
I pray that I am DEAD WRONG about needing physical to hedge my cash in the bank.
Smack downs don't matter because I have lost nor gained anything but the ability to sleep at night knowing no matter what my Government does...I have "money" accepted anywhere in the world...my dollars...not so much.
If you are legit, that I truly am sorry. Take it as a lesson learned. I feel your pain...
I blew up a margin account when I first started trading trying to short the Nasdaq bubble. That was very painful. That's when my hair started to turn gray. A week after that, the bubble began to burst. I swear I was pulling my hair out.
Anyone that plays hard pays hard. I've pulled my hair on many occasions. Now, I don't have that option. I'm fucking bald now.
I don't know anything about who you are but I have been a 16 year old, broke, living on my own, trying to figure out how to eat and pay my rent on my tiny place. I rode my bike everywhere, did not own a car until I was 22.
I worry about my money too much and I am coming to terms with it taking away from some of the quality of my life. The fact I have any is amazing, given where I started, astonishing. I have been up and down all these years, I have never had so much as I have now. And, if I lose my money, that is still true. My husband is a big, strong, brilliant, emotionally intelligent, sexy man. My son is doing great (if a teeny bit spoiled and entitled), healthy, good grades, also brilliant. My health is good and I have lots of fun with my husband.
I'm telling you all this because I too have had loss, but sometimes you are sitting on gains that you are not appreciating. I hope that makes sense. I am not suggesting you go into denial, I am suggesting adjusting your perspective. Chances are excellent that right now, everything is actually okay! Or even better than that.
Learn what you need to learn, but don't beat yourself up over it.
Creant is blazin wisdom at you with both barrels....
We've all bet the farm and we've all paid. When that happens I console myself with the thought that if I don't have any problems a few thousand bucks won't cure I'm not in bad shape.
Recommend Van Tharp's education on trading psychology and position sizing.
Or, Risk Not Thy Whole Wad
Consider it tuition ZDRuX. The lessons learned while loosing your ass stick with you forever...
Im so sorry to hear about your loss and I know its not easy. I give you a ton of credit for being honest and man enough to admit it because everyone should hear stories like yours. Your mistake was margin. I hate it. It should be agaisnt the law in all honesty. I hope you find a way back to where you were and please never do margin again there is no need for it ever. You will make far more over the long run by never touching it. You can get hella leveraged out on ETF's and options and never have to worry about an over night margin call. Just means that days like today mean you have to wait several weeks for you positions to come back up.
Again terribly sorry to hear this and mucho credit for being honest. Best to you and yours.
ZDRuX sorry to hear it. Hope you bounce back.
but why would JP not talk to the central banks that so eagerly take every available bullion. Would not hurt the price that much. Oh wait, central banks don't accept paper, have too much of it in the warehouses, onyl want the real stuff.
China says thanks.
China picking up all the shiny metal lent out by central banks to hedge funds. Will be interesting to see which parties find emtpy vaults, when they so much count on their reserves. As with CDS, who is going to be holding the bag.
Transitory.
You can see the bottom when APMEX starts selling out of their top 40 items. When there is none for sale, you know it is a good price.
Time to back up a get your ass wiped with short paper, though the physical street doesn't reflect what is occurring in the paper mache markets, stacking will prevail when the end game concludes.
Someone? I would argue many are exchanging paper for physical, cash and the few remaining interest bearing assets.
What gets manipulated down will invariably rise back up.
who says it wasn't manipulated at least a nice bit up rather than down?
(hyper)inflationary scenarios become less likely, we'll go into deflation rather, curve flattening and perhaps inverted curves... look at Australia, already there
what does this mean for gold and silver, you think?
dvsteenk,
I'm not sure the current system can survive deflation. Wouldn't that trigger the collapse of the multi trillion dollar derivatives market? The longer they string this thing out, doesn't it bring us closer to a hyper inflationary event?
The real question is why would the Fed and the ECB wait for they system to fail on its own, thereby unseating them from power, rather than pulling the plug on the patient at a time of their choosing and announcing a new monetary system? Gold has got to be the end game. It looks like everything is getting closer to blowing up and we will have to hyperinflate just to keep it going. Gold is getting smacked down now. They may be getting ready to pull the plug now, and we will see panicked buying of PMs just before they make the move.
Worst case: Gold and silver drop, but slower than everything else and you are left with some purchasing power in the end.
Best Case Scenario: TPTB pull off a reset, forgiving debt and putting us on a new gold referrenced standard. That would suggest extremely high gold prices.
When gold was at $1900 Krugman said that deflation was driving the price. Can't wait to hear what he comes up with next.
liquidating gold and silver... raising enough cash to keep stock markets afloat for one or two days more (and liquidate those positions as well)
I am thinking maybe I should sell all my physical metals and buy Apple, Chipolte, Netflix, Priceline, Amazon and Travel Zoo. Pumped up up bubble stocks look much safer now.
just dipped at 29.80 .... insane.....
fucking insane if you think that 48hrs ago was at 41$..... my phone keeps ringing... margin calls...
shame is friday night where am i gonna find some cash?
just dipped at 29.80 .... insane.....
fucking insane if you think that 48hrs ago was at 41$..... my phone keeps ringing... margin calls...
shame is friday night where am i gonna find some cash?
Paging bayofpigs we have a 29 print on silver (and it's not even December yet)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-R3YjINYLLBA/TnzBRZm8wqI/AAAAAAAAAUM/-9QsoJ6JY6M/s1600/29%2Bprint.PNG
Blow me
I was surprised the FED didn't do more... I still think they will, just as soon as people start bitching about their retirements and the term 'hyperinflation' makes people laugh again. I would love to buy some silver when it levels out.
Nothing goes up in a straight line.... Knife catching is not an easy sport....
Agreed, this is a golden opportunity for TPTB to push PMs lower still. Why would they keep their powder dry at this point?
We have already seen that they have the ability to push it down over $100 with no synchronized market sell off to assist in the fall in PM prices because of liquidations. With that extra help, they have really wacked PMs in the dirt. Therefore, if they have any remaining powder, they will let PMs have it with both barrels.