Goodbye $1700 Gold
In lieu of the period of unbridled peace and prosperity that was supposed to be ushered once the European summit ended, we have more chaos, more uncertainty, and record blow ups in all Euro-sovereign paper. Which means only one thing: the long-awaited moment of coordinated and endless central planner printing is getting ever closer. And once again, gold has figured this out albeit with a slight delay, having left the $1700 handle behind. Once the general public notices the most recent break out in the yellow metal expect yet another manic phase higher, coupled with the now traditional margin hike buffoonery (or wait, maybe this time the CME will lower margins to, gasp, make sure there is no liquidity stress).
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Margin hike, bitchez!
I for one, welcome margin hikes.
Adios 1000's, Bienvenuto 2000's ...
I can hear Bernank starting to blubber..."Traddiitttionn *sniifff* traddiitttionnn *bawling* it's only traaadditttioonnn. Timmay get me a tissue"
"Sorry boss I used it all stuffing Greek bank deposits last month!" Timmah yelled from the gimp closet.
That didn't last long. I suspect the next time we say goodbye to $1700 we'll be saying hello $1600.
yeah, right on cue, welcome back $1700s
The smackdown is retracing as we speak, but if you were trolling for neg votes, then.... success!!
It's a dance - 3 steps forwards 1 step back - 2 steps forward 1 step back repeat.
But being a proud member of Stormfront, Trav of course does not have even a smidgen of rhythm, and therefore cannot dance.
that was a pretty damn good sales event. gold at $1,600, silver at $30...ahh...those were the days.
didn't get the real deal! When silver went down to $26.60 APMEX shut itself down for maintanence.
if there are no coin dealers in your area, go with gainesvillecoins.com, providentmetals.com, tulving.com or ANYONE OTHER THAN AP-fucking-MEX! APMEX is a RIP OFF! shop around. there are much better deals than APMEX all around you.
I would typically agree, but occasionally, Apmex has deals that bring their prices in line with others, like recently with fractional maples. And at times, they are competitive on items like Palladium.
Yeah you're right Troll... I've been buying physical Au/Ag for a few years now and I've yet to find a dealer, and supply to buyers outside the USA, who are cheaper and more tightly margined than Gainsville. I've yet to find one and would be keen to hear if there's any out there who are worth chwcking out.
eaglefalcon
Par for their course,higher prems than almost anyone, and their bank is JPM.
Blue light special was last month.
Me too.
Gold is above most/all the moving averages and by a good percentage.
You can check the MAs here: http://www.kitco.com/charts/techcharts_gold.html.
I don’t think it’ll keep doing this for long.
Don’t buy now, wait for a dip to at least the 30 SMA.
Noone. I repeat: NOONE should wait a second to buy physical. Ignore tech charts and think FUNDAMENTALS. Applying tech charts to Gold is like estimating the size of the lifeboats of Titanic (instead of jumping into them)
How about this for a FUNDAMENTAL:
When dumb buyers have wasted their money on a spike, savvy buyers buy the dip that come after.
I am in no way ashamed to admit that I have myself learned that lesson not too long ago. Waiting patiently.
must've been a sales guy from APMEX.
Physical gold? That old relic? Give me more of that good time fiat paper along with NFLX, CMG, TZOO and shares of Grope-on.
;-)
I suspect Toof' Picker's point is that you may not be able to find physical gold easily. At some point gold's 'status quo' is very likely to shift at some point, and global demand simply will continue to move the price higher; and with a limited amount of the metal that's a pretty good assumption once people catch on that it may be the only sought-after money left.
Would not be at all surprised if the spikes don't do the same thing Silver did last April. Hedgies are looking for a quick boost and have started to take positions; could well squeeze the shorts; the price will shoot up, everyone will bail, and 'plop' the price back to the $1600-ish level where other buyers become interested.
Or when we have the inevitable market crash that is coming, contracts will be dumped and PMs may make their final big dip down - which may be the buying opportunity of a lifetime.
Frankly a pattern of nice rise and consolidation is much more to my liking than spikes and smack-downs, as the latter scares people out of the market.
Exactly. Hike this you punks.
My first thought too.
No money down any more..
Cash and carry.
Creates the right type of buyer, one that is making the mental decision that all FAIT is crap in hand with the determination to force the hand of the crooks attempting to cover up their mistakes.
It is a waste of time to argue this again. You are both right because you are all comparing apples and oranges. Stacking physical has nothing to do with trading paper.
At this late stage in the train wreck, you should have a physical position, there's no arguing that fact. The real question is how big a position.
If you are trading paper gold, and I won't say you should not, you must accept that you can lose everything in the market with no warning and no hope of you exiting your position.
If your physical position is too small to accept these potential loses in paper, then you need to shift some money over and do some stacking. I am not against trading paper, but stops and other types of paper hedges won't work against a global seize up in markets, and that seize up can come anytime.
'I'm Sold On Gold.'
'I'm Aquiver With Silver.'
Ok, that's about all the PM Big Ching-aso-ism's for today.
Do the next series of margin hikes take it to 100%? What do they do after it's 100%?
110%? Why not?
My guitar goes to 11, so let's push margin up to 111%
how about 9-9-9%? stupid sheeple seem to love that shit.
nah he's black like on TV, so he's a good vehicle to expunge that YT guilt
The CME hiked the rates 26% after market close Friday,by rights WE should be seeing lower prices,appears thistime, NO DICE.
Here...we...go?
Silver busting 35.30
Call me when we are back at 50.
It will get there.
Probably not on the COMEX.
Probably not before it sees $20 again.
We've been listening to you fools for years now, they were able to keep the balloon underwater at 30$ for one night before it popped back up. It's ok though, you all change your names so we can't use your previous hack job predictions against you. You've only been making these calls for a few months so you have a few more to go before your credibility is gone and you have to change your name. Only Trav has the ballz to endure his mis calls, and it just makes him use that many more swear words in his posts.
Ah, okay. Sorry if my forecast differs from yours. I'm not emotionally involved with PMs, so I don't get pissed off when someone disagrees with my forecast. But, according to the PM bugs, we should be at gold $2500 and silver $100 by now. All I try do say is that gold and silver move up and down, period. I see a deflationary environment ahead where all asset classes depreciate. No one can predict the future, all we can do is seek out information, analyze it, and form conclusions to use for our strategy.
Don't get your panties in a wad just because we disagree on the path that metals will take. It ain't personal. I think eventually gold and silver will skyrocket, relative to other assets. I just don't think the time is now.
If you think you see a deflationary environment ahead, then you, like Denninger and Bernanke, have your head up your ass.
The only thing I see deflating in today's environment (of a collapsing fiat monetary system) is the credibility of those who keep vainly and ignorantly calling for monetary or price deflation.
Repeat after me: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DEFLATION UNDER A FIAT CURRENCY REGIME. There never has been, and all rational expectations, and examination of monetary history, points to there never being any in the future as well. Show me one example of a true deflation under a fiat currency regime (and no, Japan was NOT one), and I will shut up. Until then, it is you who should shut up and stop babbling about "threats" that have never been seen in the real (non-academic) world, and overwhelmingly likely never will.
But paper is different from physical. There is absolutely no reason that paper gold and silver wouldn't go straight to zero on a COMEX or CME collapse (MF Global style, even). But physical will benefit from the readjustment, so much so that those holding silver will move up two classes in society, whether from lower class to wealth, from middle class to ultra wealthy, or from upper class to oligarch. Assuming proportional investment, of course.
Well, tm, I think that is a given. Although I would not call it a sign of "deflation" so much as the unraveling of a giant and unsustainable fraud, just another collapse of a criminal Ponzi scheme.
Honestly, I wish these historically ignorant deflationary flat-earthers would finally just shut the fuck up already about the nonexistent "threat of deflation" --- it is intellectually insulting and demeaning to even have to address their fantasies, lies and disinformation.
PS: Dear WonderDawg, the owners and advocates of gold are probably not so much "emotionally attached" to holding gold as they are, oddly, emotionally attached to the idea of NOT being financially raped blind by a criminal and unsustainable Ponzi-esque, and collapsing, monetary system which was set up in the interests of central bankers and the financial elite and directly against the interests of the common man.
Funny how you kneejerk gold naysayers continually mock and disparage the rational self-interest of those in the gold camp as merely blind emotion and/or greed, a la Jon Nadler.
You can call me names all you want, akak, it only proves my point about being emotional. Time will tell who is right. Mathematics is what I'm using for my forecast, along with some common sense. You think that TPTB will choose to print their way out of this mess. I say they won't, and can't even if they wanted to. Again, you don't have a crystal ball, and neither do I. I do have a position in physical PMs, and plan to add to it when I think we're near the bottom. The fact that I disagree with you on this matter is no cause to get bent out of shape, yet you continue to do so, which tells me that, yes, you are emotionally attached to your PMs. Bully for you. I'm not.
The Fed has one product. FRNs. They will ultimately choose not to destroy it until they have a sufficient replacement, which they do not have at this time. Until that time, I expect fluctuations, but ultimately a depreciation prior to a shot to the moon. You disagree. Big deal. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. And I really don't care what you're tired of hearing about. Plenty of people are probably tired of your incessant calls for PMs to the moon. I'm one of them. But, I respect your right to voice your opinion. If I disagree, I'll say so without really giving a shit what you don't want to hear.
Those who spread misinformation and disinformation, especially when it comes to fundamental financial and monetary matters, deserve to be called out on it. And those who would maliciously steer the innocent or the ignorant away from the the financial lifeboat of the monetary metals or other hard assets, and directly into fiat-denominated Ponzi assets and the crushing grip of the financial elite with the putative and nonsensical "threat of deflation", are mostly nothing more than traitors to the truth and to the best interests of the common man. I will never refrain from condemning them for spreading their malevolent and destructive lies. But not, apparently, even the slightest smidgen of historical analysis or perspective. Time will tell, indeed, but history has already shown what governments in the unsustainably indebted positions that all Western nations are currently in have invariably done and will invariably do: depreciate the currency. Sure, they may not print physical paper and flood the economy with it as in Weimar Germany --- in fact, I strongly suspect they will not repeat that particular experiment --- but they WILL depreciate the currency as a means of reducing their debts, one way or another. ALL of financial and monetary history, going back thousands of years in hundreds of societies, demonstrates and proves this conclusively. Yet you want us to believe, in the face of a mountain of evidence to the contrary, that "this time is different". Why? Oh really? Based on what evidence? What historical parallel? And unlike the dozens of other similarly and hopelessly indebted national governments just within the last few decades who did in fact chose to destroy (or greatly depreciate) their fiat currencies in the face of crushing debts? Once again with the "this time it's different" meme. Or is it the "It can't happen to us!" meme? Either, and both, suffer from the same blinkered historical ignorance.I have NEVER made any such calls, and in fact have mocked them myself --- primarily because such people tend to suffer from fiat tunnel vision, and foolishly continue to measure the value of all things against depreciating fiat currencies. I care not a whit what the price of gold is --- what really matters is its value, which is a very different concept than some nominal dollar figure. Gold at $10,000 an ounce will be no cause for celebration if the price of a gallon of milk reaches $30 at the same time.
so $60 is out for next week?
Repeat that lie a few more times. Maybe your idol, Hitler, was right, and one day it will come true.
I'll bet bernanke is reading this and he'll do anything to prove you wrong!!!
Exactly. They're rushing to their battle stations right now. $80 smack-down imminent.
But do they have the ammo to do it? Or are they shooting blanks?
the bernank may (possibly, remotely so,) have read the article, but he is not reading our comments. :P I'll bet he saw the headline though, at least on an RSS feed.
I doubt Uncle Ben reads ZH, but if he does, he's got to be Robotrader.
I would bet someone a gold eagle that he's heard of ZH, and another that someone on his staff reads it for him.
as gold goes higher, going to be harder to raise margins and have an effect. thats a good thing. maybe more paper holders will want physical too.
They are coming to take my gold?
Gold spent about 1 1/2 months below $1,800 which was a great opportunity to load up before the next move higher...which is now upon us.
SPAM BITHCEZ...
I still hold firm to my belief (that gold has seen its top for the year) until I change my mind.
Fuck it.
I hereby capitulate.
Buying today.
Look out below.
That didn't take long!
It has been a long strange trip between you and gold.
Dont you push me baby,
'Cause I'm all alone
And you know I'm only in it for the gold.
You're smarter than the folks at Elliotwave!
Bobby, how's that short working for ya?
Green for Topcallingtroll, he may or may not be right, but he's definitely whipsaw proof (and this is a whipsaw market).
Now this is how I like my gold. IE higher in $US's. It's tradition.
Silver bitchez!
Silver coin-of-the-realm, BitcheZ!
Did anybody ever wonder if the buffoons are long gold? What better way to profit from their own actions than be long "real" money?
http://vegasxau.blogspot.com
Isn't this about the time that Robo should be chiming in with his endless pontifications on how so and so is taking a beating on gold and how they should have bought MS or PCLN or...whatever?
I wouldn't even dignify the flyby, snarky, shallow, gratuitous, post-and-run drivel of RoboTarder as "pontifications". In order to pontificate, one first has to have a modicum of both intelligence and relevance, both of which are characteristics that MomoLemming has yet to demonstrate here.
Commercial longs and short covering combined with unprecidented physical demand is what's pushing gold higher. Not spec longs
I may or may not (depending upon who's asking) be contributing to that unprecidented physical demand.
www.pmbug.com
Can the HUI be on its way to taking out its yearly high? Go baby, go, puhlease!
The desire of gold is not for gold. It is for the means of freedom and benefit. ~ Emerson
A important issue for selling precious metals.
I live in Texas and the other day I was selling some steerling silver spoons. Much to my surprise they would not buy 17oz of steerling silver without taking my drivers license and including myname/address/drivers license on the bill of sale. I asked if this was because they were spoons and not coins or bars. They said it was for all PM's. This was not a pawn shop, it was a dealer.
The dealers I use have never asked for any information when selling me precious metals. Just because I am paranoid does not mean they are not out to get me. So the question becomes how to unload this with out being identified.
In collier county Florida they were running stings off of Craigs list for handy man. When you
showed up they would ask you if you would do electrical work and then bust you for not having a liscense. So adds in the paper and on the internet could be traps.
The point here is that the government will continue to make new rules and laws to help themselves to part of your money. So I am asking the Zero hedge community what the consensus is on selling. Just price in future taxes along with the vig when you sell or what.
See attached about louisana, although it addresses junk just change the verbage to precious metals.
Things like this get passed because how many people deal in junk so this does not apply to me.
Now what if it now is precious metals and most people say this does not apply to me.
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/23...ut-Due-Process
This summer, the State Legislature and Governor of Louisiana passed a law that bans individuals
and businesses from transacting in cash if they are considered a "secondhand dealer". House Bill
195 of the 2011 Regular Session (Act 389) broadly defines a secondhand dealer to include
"... Anyone, other than a non-profit entity, who buys, sells, trades in or otherwise acquires or disposes
of junk or used or secondhand property more frequently than once per month from any other person,
other than a non-profit entity, shall be deemed as being in the business of a secondhand dealer.
" The law then states that "A secondhand dealer shall not enter into any cash transactions in payment
for the purchase of junk or used or secondhand property. Payment shall be made in the form of check,
electronic transfers, or money order issued to the seller of the junk or used or secondhand property...
" The broad scope of this definition can essentially encompass everyone; from your local flea market
vendors and buyers to a housewife purchasing goods on ebay or craigslist, to a group of guys trading
baseball cards, they could all be considered secondhand dealers. Lawmakers in Louisiana have
effectively banned its citizens from freely using United States legal tender.
The law goes further to require secondhand dealers to turn over a valuable business asset, namely,
their business' proprietary client information. For every transaction a secondhand dealer must obtain
the seller's personal information such as their name, address, driver's license number and the license
plate number of the vehicle in which the goods were delivered. They must also make a detailed
description of the item(s) purchased and submit this with the personal identification information of every
transaction to the local policing authorities through electronic daily reports. If a seller cannot or refuses
to produce to the secondhand dealer any of the required forms of identification, the secondhand dealer
s prohibited from completing the transaction.
This legislation amounts to a public taking of private property without compensation. Regardless of
whether or not the transaction information is connected with, or law enforcement is investigating a crime,
individuals and businesses are forced to report routine business activity to the police.
i've got a solution to this problem....... it's called RON PAUL 2012 !
Sell your PM's to drug gangs for cash at 2x spot and everybody is happy.
My city is trying to pass an ordinance tomorrow along the same lines, but dealing with precious metals trade. Description of what was sold, name address phone number license etc.
Article 1 Sec X of the Constitution gives Congress (and only Congress) the right to regulate the currency. Impossible for any other body to have jurisdiction to regulate currency, including forbidding its use in commercial transactions.
But the prolifigation of these rules is making me wonder is this is some sort of coordinated attack on a second-hand economy? Awful lot of smoke around this.
Paying taxes are volentery , you need to sort your shit out.
So is speling correctly but it looks like you already knew that...
Glass house?
Ahhhh... My lightning speed typing sometimes causes me to miss a letter or two... Well, my excuse could´ve been that English is not my native tongue, actually it isn´t even my second language, but a language I learnt in the fourth grade. What do assume he will blame it on? Dyslexia? Lazyness in school? Not giving a shit?
When I sell it´s to buy real estate (read: farmland) so there will be so much friggin paperwork anyway.
So since silver/gold eagles are legal for tender, you could buy the real estate directly with the PMs. Agree on "20 $50 Gold Eagles and 25 $1 Silver Eagles" for example. For reporting purposes your transaction price would be $1025 for the farm.
cat2
For reporting purposes your transaction price would be $1025 for the farm.
In your dreams, the IRS would throw you into a cell,until you paid Market Value.
There are a half dozen shadowbanks that you can use to conduct the transaction. However might i offer something a little simpler.
Wait to sell, unless you really need to sell for cash.
Otherwise sell them in another state.
The answer would be to get your PMs to a safer country and then sell them there when SHTF. I don't trust our government, that's for sure.
www.singledudetravel.com
Has anyone filed a lawsuit citing federal pre-emption? States can't declare legal tender federal reserve notes invalid. What was Jindal thinking??