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Goodbye Civilization: So Simple A Greekman Can Do It
Around 1000 people per day are still losing their jobs in Greece with the percentage of the population not working now uncomfortably larger than those who are employed. This is creating drastic - or perhaps more aptly philosophical - reflections by its people. As the BBC reports, the feeling in Greece is that a "whole generation is on hold" and there is a growing trend towards the creation self-sustaining eco-communities - free of the ties of money and modern civilization. "What others saw as a global economic crisis, [Greeks] saw as a crisis of civilization" and so they are trying something different, growing their own food, bartering with one another, and exchanging surpluses with other villages. The community calls itself "Free and Real" - an acronym for Freedom of Resources for Everyone, Respect, Equality, Awareness and Learning - and it is growing as a stunning 76% of Greeks would like to emigrate. The positivist angle notes that the Greek crisis is not all bad as it shows the lives we are leading are not working and Greeks can "begin to look for alternatives." Everyone is stressed; but "Being able to work is a basic human right in a civilized society, if the government won't provide us with it then we will have to fight for it."
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Phuckitall!
"What's Hecuba to him, or he to Hecuba, that he should weep for her?"
Therein lies (one of) the problem(s). As greed infects high and low, there is no sense of "community" anymore.
Much of the hyperbole is based in Greek politics.
Greece CAN cut the amounts they promised to cut. It will generate riots and it will generate very likely a lost vote of no confidence and the present coalition will fall apart.
The firebrand will then take office and stand up and say NO MORE CUTS. But he probably won't undo the cuts that were made (12ish billion )that caused the government to fall. Then he'll blame all the upheaval on his predecessors and not incidentally get the next tranche of money from the EU.
This would keep him in the EU for another year. It would then be next year's cuts that threaten his gov't.
But overall the point is much of the talk of "Greece cannot survive" and "Greece will fall" is really about "PASOK and New Democracy" cannot survive and will fall.
the motto of the skull and bones club of WASP Yale elitemen : Constructive chaos, learning to create wars to our benefit. Through secrecy and loyal networking we stay in power.
The opposite of civilization as first stated by Solon of Athens, declaring that anybody who did not accept public debate to put his beliefs to the test committed a crime!
We are far away from what civilization is about in the NSA/CIA/drone/electronic surveillance world of today.
JFK REVEALS SKULL AND BONES SOCIETY- Zeitgeist - NWO - YouTube
The last US president who believed in open policies, unlike Tricky Dicky and " do anything but don't get caught"; or LBJ/GWB and fake Tonkin/WMD casus belli gimmicks.
+1 too bad they look so harmless, eh? Long Solon.
"..., if the government won't provide us with it then we will have to fight for it."
Fucking socialists.
The government is not supposed to be supplying the jobs, asshole.
Get off your ample Greek asses, find something other Greeks want, and start your own gig.
THAT is the only way Greece will truly recover.
If you wait on the Big Gubment to take care of you....you get what you have now.
so current greece is paradise...I don't know why you curse them. Go join them in divine communion. There is NO government in Greece! Its paradise on earth. Let the Germans stew in default Hiatus.
I am currently in one of the richer countries in the West Indies, lots of socialism down here, huge number of folks "working," for the government, crime is out of control.
Being able to work, yes. But in a local community, with respect for nature and for eachother, with sound money for exchange. And not for growth and wallets of narcist CEO's and bankers. So let it collapse. I need freedom, now i am trapped in the system and scared to step out on my own...
I am working now, but i'm not productive. In this fascist fake money more more environment, i will not be productive. Ever.
"I am working now, but i'm not productive. In this fascist fake money more more environment, i will not be productive. Ever."
And therein lies the quandry. Personally I am struggling between the choice of keeping my job, for which the pay I receive is not keeping up with inflation, or trying to break out of the rat race and stay home to take care of the more serious business of raising a family and improving the ol' homestead. My eyes have been opened and I realise that the current system will eventually collapse under its own deadweight. I am like you, scared to step out on my own. So far the steps I've taken have been small but I know I will either eventually find the courage to make the leap or I will be forced to do it.
There are a billion more 'like us'. They just are indoctrinated or they don't want to know. I wish you luck and succes, whatever comes at us.
Choosing family is always the best choice.
Surprised to took so many comments to get to something like this. I agree with you and am in the same situation. I have a daughter on the way any day now and my urge to ditch the rat race 8-5 job is getting stronger by the minute. My heart and soul isn't satisfied doing 'work' that I know will amount for nothing in long long run and knowing that the only reason I put myself through this everyday is to get money that is fake and soon to be worthless makes it worse. In my spare time I am doing reall work that has meaning and the potential to make my life and my familes better. Like you, these are only small things at this point, but every little bit counts. Good luck to you and yours.
This is what socialism does to people. Makes them wait at the gate hoping for a piece of bread as they bleat about their rights. Instead they could go out and start a small business, grow their own food, start their own community currency. But no. They wail about "rights". I have no sympathy for them.
I guess your not able to read. Creating self reliant eco communities is exactly what the article was about. I suggest you go back to primary school to get an education in how to read. By the way for you and all the other liberatarian snarking on this site, without government we would be in a great depression right now. Without government Hitler and his children would rule the world. Without government you will die in poverty in old age. Without government its back to the state of nature and all against all as Thomas Hobbes explained to us. Even Adam Smith recognized the need for government to allow the free market to flourish. But then you probably have no idea what I am talking about since you missed primary school.
Excuse me (I am Dutch), but is it not "I guess you are not able to read"?
And Hitler was also government btw, and speak/write for yourself.
So all of you government lovers believe that government works and no government fails.
My question is: why not allow no government societies to come into existence and, according to your beliefs, fail, thereby proving your beliefs to be correct?
Your unsubstantiated claims would be verified and all debate ended.
I think most reasonable people believe in a system of government. When the government is corrupted by special interests then its a different ball game.
Good news ...football season is starting so we will be distracted till February 2013...yipeee
I think you and most people are confusing "government" with "organized society."
Organized through a model known as "government".....
" the governing body of persons in a state, community, etc.; administration. "
Organized through a model known as "government".....
" the governing body of persons in a state, community, etc.; administration. "
I suggest you gain an understanding of the essence of what is going on. The perople are re-asserting their desire to be free. They are forming comminities free from government control of the economy. Free from minimum wages, workers rights, social justice and all the other claptrap government imposes on people in the name of the :good of society." If it's so good why are these people rejecting it. This is the re-assertion of capitalism and free enterprise. Individuals freely exchanging the fruits of their labor as they see fit.
I feel kinda sorry for them. They don't realize gov't is the problem, not the solution.
I don't feel sorry for them. If they don't realize by now that government exists just to suck the life blood out of them then they deserve their fate. I myself do believe that people need to bring everything back to a local community mind set and stop looking to Washington for answers.
I didn't junk you by the way. It must have been a government loving troll.
*Thread-jack by RTM (I will contribute to the discussion a little later)
Posted an article on Lord Rothschild making a $200mm bet against Euro and the Brandon Raub indefinite detention article still up if you missed it. www.TopTheNews.com
The Greeks should re-claim the Olympics, that might alleviate their problems a little!
And with regards to Greece, Italy, Ireland, and Spain, it has occurred to me that these countries probably all have more people outside of their respective countries that have descended from them.
Therefore, why don't the people of the world of Irish, Italan, Greek, and Spanish extraction, send some money to help their distant cousins, because their respective governments are clearly incompetent.
Government by definition is incompetent.
"thegekko Therefore, why don't the people of the world of Irish, Italan, Greek, and Spanish extraction, send some money to help their distant cousins, because their respective governments are clearly incompetent."
That's a nice thought what if the world had leaders that led by example rather then leader's who want to REDISTRIBUTE your money but pocketed their own.
D’Souza Sends Money to President Obama’s Brother for Sick Child
You're absolutely right. The Greeks should reclaim the Olympics. Will the Greeks and I and you be sued by the cabal now claiming the Olympics?
The communes are a good idea. But they do seem antithetical to the idea of government guaranteeing 'work' – if you're abolishing establishment society, don't work and 'human rights' take on new meanings?
coming to the USA real soon I'm sure...
get ready
survivingsurvivalism.com
It's funny how so many love to take the piss out of the unwashed Greeks at every opportunity. I am reminded of a friend of mine from the land of the free who told me how important it was to cut back on spending and save money. As an example, he told me how he recently bought a new giant flat screen pacifier for nearly 60% off the normal price. Now that's a positive response to the world's financial problems isn't it?
As a side observation, anything published in MSM (definitely including BBC) should be read very carefully since propaganda of some sort or other is usually the main objective. God bless the disenfranchised, no matter how stupid and ignorant they are compared to the enlightened folks who post here.
don't be too hard on our British cousins, I have a soft spot for the BBC, the classiest propaganda outfit on the planet, much, much better than NPR (national Pentagon radio), or the awful Voice of America,which should pay people to listen to it!
Soylent green going world wide bitchez, soylent green.
Agoraphobia ! Fear of open spaces like market places !
People forget that this was part of the great EU masterplan in the first place, 1) Greeks have to move to where there (still) is work, 2) tax money flows out to the periphery.
This is nothing more than the establishment of social credit systems. The most common historical systems of exchange. When government dictates who can work and how, this is an unwelcomed intervention. The commentary is probably poorly translated.
There are opportunities present for those people that desire a more pastoral political/economic system. There are tradeoffs of course. You limit how you can trade, with whom and which products, but it may be preferable to starving.
The initial reactions here are amusing. Obviously, NO ONE IS STARVING HERE. Is it so hard to imagine that many greeks are caught in an unteneable position? Rather than rush the riot police and get their heads bashed in, they choose a different alternative. As a social experiment, it is open to dynamic change and may well meet the needs of these people in ways current greek society is unable to.
We are just as bankrupt as Greece. How will you choose when it is our turn? What will happen when our system fails for millions of people? Or are we there already? 45 million on food stamps. 66 million at 125% of the poverty level. Should we descend into violence? Or could alternative, voluntary social systems provide better solutions?
For all of you touting guns, food, and pm's, how is your solution different? What will you trade your pm's for?
A social experiment called free enterprize.
brave words. Provided it aint corpocracy.
Without government to 'charter', license and protect it, there is no corporation ... just individuals making (and possibly breaking, hence the need for 'due dilligence') agreements with each other.
"Being able to work is a basic human right in a civilized society, if the government won't provide us with it then we will have to fight for it."
HUH?????? WTF does that even mean? The only human right is the right to the pursuit of happiness. Where does a job (or work) come into play?
First, I am not certain when he says:
if the government won't provide us with it then we will have to fight for it.
Does "it" mean:
A) The Right to Work (is the government depriving people through regulations, or not protecting people from others that destroy their ability to work)
or B) Work (the government is not giving them jobs.)
As far as Rights go, most countries are signatories to this little piece, that lists quite a few rights:
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/
Apparently someone wanted the Greek islands, but didn't have enough money to buy them. So they have artificially depressed the economy until the price is affordable... just like whats happening in the best places in the USA, and I'm certain, everywhere else.
There goes the neighborhood.
Socialism's most stubborn defenders are imbedded in the free societies living off welfare .... the last place they want to go to is a truly Socialist shit hole !
It is born of a tragedy, of course, but in some ways this could be interpreted as a good sign. It is in a sense a natural law response to what appears to be an irretrievably dysfunctional economic framework.
In fact, they may well be better off if they unilaterally declared their own debt jubilee and let the chips fall where they may. They would, of course, tick off a lot of banks, bondholders and bureaucrats, and other sovereigns as well, but that's probably preferrable to a virtual collapse of civilization within Greece.
They would also destroy their bond market, so the government would be forced to downsize dramatically as it would necessarily have to live hand to mouth having only its incoming revenues to spend rather than yet more borrowed money, but I believe that would be a good thing in the medium to long run, painful though it might be in the short run.
This growing movement towards living off the land and local production and consumption would undoubtedly need to grow, but the Greeks have been able to survive that way in the past, and they could keep the Euro as I understand it, given that the EZ has no mechanism for kicking members out. Of course if push came to shove they could resurrect the drachma or something similar, but either method would be preferrable to the barter many now seem to have been pushed into.
Many would undoubtedly be booted from the drastically shrunken government dole, and wages would need to drop to reach a market clearing price to eliminate unemployment, but that would be necessary to bring the economy back into synch with reality. It would no doubt be an unpleasant jolt, but I think it would be far preferrable coming back to reality sooner rather than later.
I don't see any legitimate reason why the bureaucrats' only "fix" for the crisis is more of the same policies which caused the crises and have exacerbated it. Why should their only options be printing more fiat money, more debt, bigger government, higher taxes, shrinking private sector, more bureacracy, less democracy, relinquish sovereignty to an ubergovernment?
A: Take it or
B: Leave it (and allegedly crash into a nightmare scenario of a dissolution of European civilization)
The Greeks are learning a hard lesson about life. Its a bitch. No one owes you anything. You are on your own. Your suvival depends on you and you alone. Life is a competition. The Modern Greeks are an embarrassment to their noble ancestors.
I wont go so far as to say that life is unfair because that assumes there is some kind of rule or law that is enforceable that is supposed to make life fair. No such law exists. Mother nature does not give a shit about you. Be lucky youre still alive and do something productive with the time you have left because its running out fast.
In Cuba where the unemployment rate is 0% the running joke is "The government pretends to pay us, so we pretend to to work"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38300887/ns/business-world_business/t/zero-p...
Sounds like the start of a new gov. party within Greece. It all begins with a common tie (ag work and ideal conditions), then the need to protect that tie. Then suddenly guns and policing are involved.
Agorism Bitchez!
Amazing. So in greece you are seeing the rise of free enterprize and capitalism as individual and communities barter with each other free from government dictating every aspect of their labor and trade.
Eco-communities? Damn that's living like what half the banksters want. Mission accomplished. Defraud them, then make them live like hippies/Jim Jones.
Funny how Der Spiegel has already called on Greece to default.
Glass-Steagall
""Being able to work is a basic human right in a civilized society, if the government won't provide us with it then we will have to fight for it."
So close to the truth, yet also so close to being outright idiotic.
You have a right to work and enjoy the fruits of your labors - and everyone has a right to engage in productive enterprises.
You don't have a right to "a job", nor is the government responsible for providing one - what they're responsible for is getting the fuck out of our way.
I suppose we can give them a pass on the semantics since they obviously grasp the right idea in practice.
Self-sustaining eco-communities? In the US that's called terrorism and won't be tolerated.
I have over the fucking top had it with this bullshit. Well not quit over the top that would be newsworthy.
fyi, clif high references this very article as a potential temporal marker for his shape reports:
http://halfpasthuman.com/things.html
if his monkey mind is accurate, fasten your seat belts...
Well, at least they are taking matters in their own hands now. Isn't that entrepreneurial? They have barters systems. There is the potato movement with direct sale from producers to consumers, cutting out the middle man. Perhaps the Greek are reinventing democracy. There is a paradigm shift (there is that phrase again) that they can't trust their government and their elites.