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Government Unemployment Watch: USPS To Close Up To 3,700 Post Offices

Tyler Durden's picture





 

The problem with bloated central planning is that when austerity hits, the bloat goes away, and millions of government employees suddenly find themselves trying to enter the private sector, realizing they have absolutely no real competitive and marketable skills (more or less like investment bankers and hedge fund managers). And while America has yet to even remotely sniff austerity, the unemployment rate is already set to spike, after the USPS just announced it was preparing to close 3,653 out of its 32,000 total post office sites. Per UPI: "The U.S. Postal Service is expected to announce a plan to close 3,653 post offices, mostly in small communities, in a cost-cutting measure, officials said. A USPS spokeswoman said the post offices were chosen because they get the "least amount of foot traffic and retail sales," The Wall Street Journal reported Monday." Trust the bureaucrats to try spinning this bad news as good: "They also were selected because there may be local businesses that could provide some postal services to the community, spokeswoman Sue Brennan said." Well by that logic there are private businesses that cover every aspect of the government's "job" much better, and much more efficiently, up to and including that of the Fed (sorry, that already is private). Does that mean we should outsource every aspect of the bloated centrally planned economy that America has become? Of course the answer is yes, but that just does not jive with the current iteration of kleptofascist socialism.

More:

The list of the closures, amounting to about 11 percent of the USPS' post offices nationwide, will be made public Tuesday by Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe,

 

The Postal Regulatory Commission would have to approve the widespread closings, as the USPS prepares to file a request for a "national change of service," Brennan said.

 

Donahoe also will announce "a replacement strategy" involving third-party retailers, she said.

 

"If you're a community and there is a local convenience store, for example, we might be reaching out to these organizations to see if they would be interested in providing limited postal service for the community that might be affected," Brennan said.

So between corporate and now public sector layoffs, expect the unemployment rate to resume climbing steadily to double digits, hitting it some time in Q4, at which point QE3 will be inevitable, as Goldman predicted yesterday.

 


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Tue, 07/26/2011 - 09:55 | Link to Comment wang
wang's picture

ironic

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:11 | Link to Comment Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

iconic

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 14:07 | Link to Comment ba dum tiss
ba dum tiss's picture

ionic

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 09:57 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Why don't we cut the postal service in half and save even more?  Half of addresses get delivery on Mon-Wed-Fri, the other half on Tues-Thurs-Sat.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:26 | Link to Comment cat2
cat2's picture

It should be cut by....  40%

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:36 | Link to Comment SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

Fuck the USPS, Third most horrible service of any of the major delivery services around here. Not as bad as UPS and FedEx but pretty damn close. I would say this is bullish UPS and FedEx but those companies are too horrible ever to be bullish.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:50 | Link to Comment utgolfer
utgolfer's picture

Yea that makes a lot of sense, FedEx and UPS ranking below the USPS. Nice try commie.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:52 | Link to Comment Mongrel
Mongrel's picture

Well hell, there goes Slapout and Bugtussle, Alabama . . . not to mention Lizard Thicket and Yampertown. Damn!

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 12:04 | Link to Comment ALPO
ALPO's picture

At least USPS doesn't mangle my packages.  Everything that UPS brings to my house looks like it has been kicked down a flight of stairs and then stomped on by a pack of hyperactive gorillas.

Not that USPS doesn't have its own annoying traits.  But at least they get the items where they are going without destroying them.

 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 12:05 | Link to Comment ALPO
ALPO's picture

double post

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:51 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Perhaps this is why the O'bamabot could not guarantee that Social Security checks would go out?

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:56 | Link to Comment parch702
parch702's picture

While sitting stoned in The Pit last night we got talking about the PO and the elimination of Sat. delivery. If they did that what would stop them from saving real money and going only to a Mon./Wed./Fri. delivery protocol?

It's mostly junk mail anyway....

Just get my bills there on time, that is, the ones I don't pay online.

 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 12:07 | Link to Comment JoeSexPack
JoeSexPack's picture

If FedEx or UPS sold stamps the USPS would die in a year.

 

USPS has a monopoly on postage stamps, that keeps them alive.

 

Try buying a sheet of paper stamps from FedEx or UPS, account credits or individual postage sure, but no sheets.

 

Postal clause in constitution interpreted to ban others from selling stamps.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 13:34 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Could fire half them 'cause they don't work anyhow... you know, all the folk sittin' in rooms with nothin' to do and bein' paid for it.  USPS's idea of saving money.   In fact fire 'em all and still'll be no change 'cept the junk mail don't get delivered.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:01 | Link to Comment doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

how much time will it take before people realise that technology is making people redundant?

We will have to work 3/4 days a week( instead of 5/6) take a pay cut maybe, to allow others to get jobs.

But this is what technology was supposed to do anyways..to help people relax more. But we dont have a social structure to manage the proceeds of technology.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:02 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

Amen to that.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:04 | Link to Comment Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

The Postal Service can actually be reformed I think. Cut service to five days. Get rid of Saturday for example. Close offices that get little traffic to save money. Current workers need to take a pay cut and current pensioners need to take a reduction in benefits. The alternative is layoffs and pension checks not going out.

Raising prices isn't going to work because the USPS is easily avoidable for most things at this point.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:14 | Link to Comment Cole Younger
Cole Younger's picture

"USPS is easily avoidable for most things at this point."

Then why have the USPS in the first place? Tradition? They are not making enough revenue to support themselves. 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:14 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Junk mail is the only thing that keeps it remotely justifiable to go to every house every day.  And most people just throw it away.  Per my post above, they should hack the whole organization in half, go to a 3-day per week delivery schedule and alternate delivery days.  Then raise rates on the junk mail.  If companies want to stuff mailboxes with marketing it doesn't need to be subsidized by US taxpayers, they can hire someone to do it or pay a market rate to the postal service.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:19 | Link to Comment Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Physical SPAM Bitchez! It's in your mailbox.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:37 | Link to Comment Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

Such practical, common-sense solutions. "If companies want to stuff mailboxes with marketing it doesn't need to be subsidized by US taxpayers" YES! I would immediately put you in charge of the task force for post office reform, if I, you know, had any power or authority

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:56 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Bingo. 99% of the crap in my mailbox is subsidized junk mail. Most of the CC offers, I shred, then mail back in the PPD envelope....to stimulate the economy.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:03 | Link to Comment kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

ha... that's great.  I now have a new hobby.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:30 | Link to Comment CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Tape the PPD enveloped to an apporpriately sized scrap of 2x4 ... or a brick if its JP Morgan Chase. :-)

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:23 | Link to Comment goodrich4bk
goodrich4bk's picture

The USPS isn't subsidized, so going private doesn't save taxpayer money

  Sure, have FedEx and UPS take over.  I'm sure they will come up with a 2-3 day service (similar to the average USPS delivery rate).  Oh, looky here: they already do that for only $19.44.

Great idea, moron.  I just saved no taxes, laid off that nice lady who works in our post office, increased my mail costs by 2,000 per cent and now you want to have my mail delivered by the 7/11 clerk?  I am quite certain he will love the attention he'll be getting now that he is the town gossip, but the rest of us, not so much.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:45 | Link to Comment sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

How are they funding themselves? Maybe Federal Reserve loans?

 

The US Postal Service filed its eigth month preliminary financial report of the 2011 fiscal year (unaudited) with the Postal Regulatory Commission (PRC) . USPS reported a net operating loss of $1.3 billion for the month of June 2011. This same period last year saw a $642 million net loss. In October 2010 USPS saw a net profit of $283 Million, November 2010 net loss $456 million, December 2010 net loss $156 million, January 2011, net loss $451 million, February 2011, net loss $1.1 billion, March 2011, $657 million, April net loss of $747 million . After eight months into FY 2011 USPS reports a net loss of $4.7 billion (same time last year it was $2.9 billion). USPS May 2011 Financial Results Net loss $1,348 billion for June and $4,653 billion ending  May 31, 2011. at the end of April USPS loss was $ a little more than $3.3. billion.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:28 | Link to Comment Agent P
Agent P's picture

While I agree with you on the cost cutting measures (particularly on dropping Saturday delivery and office consolidation...there are four offices in my town serving a population of 130k), I disagree with you about raising prices.

Yes, with email, online bill pay, etc. postal services are easily avoidable.  However, there is still a large amount of mail that needs to be sent the old fashion way, and charging someone a whopping $0.44 to come to you, pick up a letter, and hand deliver it anywhere in the country is just plain stupid.  I challenge you to come up with another service offering that kind of value (excluding Zero Hedge and free internet porn).  If Congress would let the USPS charge market rates for their services, the business model would stand on much firmer ground.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:55 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

However, there is still a large amount of mail that needs to be sent the old fashion way..

Like what?  I haven't opened our mailbox for years.  I think my wife goes about once a week to collect the junk mail to shred for animal bedding.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:04 | Link to Comment Agent P
Agent P's picture

"Like what?  I haven't opened our mailbox for years.  I think my wife goes about once a week to collect the junk mail to shred for animal bedding."

  • Birthday cards
  • Christmas cards
  • Hand written thank you notes
  • Bills (though I wouldn't be sad to see those go)
  • Victoria's Secret catalogues
  • Postcards from travelers
  • Ammo ordered over the internet
  • Free animal bedding

The list goes on and on...

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:48 | Link to Comment sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Those can all be done by email or UPS/Fedex except for the bedding. You have free local rags at the grocery stores for that

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 22:14 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

First class letters are the province of the USPS and the USPS only!  Read the US Constitution.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:47 | Link to Comment CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Something about a baby and bath water come to mind ...

Folks having the ability to mail a DOCUMENT to ANY citizen in the country is valuable. What kind of documents? Checks? Check. Legal? Check. Bills? Check. Cash? Check. Letter? Check. Yes, the USPS has probably larded up, but that does not mean the underlying service is not valuable.

And in case it wasn't mentioned, at least the USPS is constitutional, unlike most other government bloat ...

Furthermore, Congress may establish post offices and post roads (the roads, however, need not be exclusively for the conveyance of mail).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constitution

I am ok with cuts, but *think* before you say the whole USPS system should get the plug pulled.

If the USPS was killed by Bohner, Reid, and Obammy to save the US spending habits, it would really suck. I am a web programmer by profession and I went kicking and screaming into online banking. I still REFUSE to do online bill pay. Only moving to Alaksa pushed me over the banking cliff and I am very lucky to have USAA. I don't think I would do it with any other bank (and trust me I know how to take a pay check to the issuing bank - I lived without banks for years). I prefer to pay CASH for all my purchases. I prefer to write a CHECK for all my bills. I prefer to use my CREDIT CARD for emergencies, Amazon.com (not exactly the shopping mecca of the world up here), and pay-at-the-pump (paying cash is very annoying for a fill up).

Yes, I have seen great comments regarding junk mail. Yes, there are unions involved and things need to be brought inline. Yes there is fat to cut. Yes improvements can be made. But if the USPS goes, private companies will only want the profitable volume centers and the lower volume areas will get screwed.

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:36 | Link to Comment Paul Bogdanich
Paul Bogdanich's picture

The problem at the Postal Service is too many offices in rural areas (jobs programs for small states) and the fact that Congress won't let them charge more than 15 cents an ounce for advertising mail like credit card solitications and so on.  Take care of those two issues and the system makes a profit and delivers better more comprehensive service than any private carrier.    

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:40 | Link to Comment SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

Too much lobbying power by the physical spammers.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:11 | Link to Comment Catullus
Catullus's picture

Interesting. I generally don't associate shrinking operations, limiting availability and service and paycuts as a healthy enterprise. These are death nails for it. People will just continue to use their alternatives and their truly good employees who aren't government pension slaves will just leave.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:14 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

How about implementing a plan to significantly raise tarriffs on China and others thereby forcing jobs back into this country? Protectionism has not worked for the good of the middle class and I see no good reason to continue it any further. Believe me I'm no Karl Marx either.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:21 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Implementing increased tariffs would be a form of protectionism....

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:34 | Link to Comment weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Well, duh.  It's hard to compete with forced and child labor, no enviromental restrictions and zero safety net. 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:08 | Link to Comment Alasdair
Alasdair's picture

If wages aren't increased in conjunction with productivity, money accelerates to the top.  Wealth inequality explodes and the rest of society gets to share a big sh*t sandwich.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:12 | Link to Comment The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

Not to disagree with your very valid point....but the much more disturbing and destructive trend is that of the low-cost Asian worker making the high-cost American worker redundant. This is the primary factor that is collapsing the current system.

T.E.I.N. everyone!

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 13:21 | Link to Comment Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

Massive headwind for the US -- US has priced itself out of the world market (but we have had a big debt financed consumption party for the last 30+ years that should provide nice memories).  For years the costs of higher US wages and government regulations were offset by higher productivity.  That is all changing now.

The productivity of the rest of the world is going to rise dramatically the next 10+ years which will significantly reduce US productivity margin.  US wages are too high for a world that will happily work for $5 per day and who do not insist government solve every problem known to man. 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 12:02 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

We do have a social structure D&B, it is called the top 0.001%.  

I have argued your point with many.  Why is it that if technology has made us so more productive we are still working this long?

The answer I have come up with is that it is to keep ahead of the expanding interest.  We have to grow faster than the interest.  And compounding growth is tough.

Take away interest on debt money and things get easier.  Of course, then people would have more time to think, and we cant have that!

pods

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 13:31 | Link to Comment Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

Most are working so long because throughout their life they decided ever expanding consumption and standard of living was a necessity. 

No one thought a very small house or one car (used) or no eating out or two movies per year or vacations less than 100 miles from home or etc etc was a good idea.  All the money spent on over-consumption did not go into saving for retirement so they wouldn't have to work so long. 

Can't spend more than every dollar earned (via debt) and have a long comfortable retirement.  It is called bad choices -- which have consequences. 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 14:03 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Well on an individual basis, yes your argument holds.  But systemwide, you have to have expansion or it fails.  

If everyone did as you say, and lived within their means, did not buy on credit, etc.  We would already have collapsed by now, as production expansion cannot keep up with interest compounding.  So slowly you would run out of money in society, halting production, slowing money, etc.

That is how the system works. I could not believe it when mako first stated that here (haven't seen mako in some time).  I was dumbfounded how someone was stating that by all of us behaving in a manner which seemed prudent would actually collapse the system that we are in.  The longer I thought about it, the more I realized that that is how the system works.  

So unless you can have compounding growth that is ahead of the compounding interest, you are dead.  And to have zero growth in this system defeats it. Which is why I behave in the way that you speak.

I actually do go on vacations, etc, but do it all out of pocket. I do not have credit lines anywhere.  Zero access to credit. I have a mortgage and that is it.  Used cars that i fix myself, etc.

So I am doing what you say, but not to have a happy future.  I am doing it to crash this system so my kids may have that future.

pods

 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 14:57 | Link to Comment Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

"If everyone did as you say, and lived within their means, did not buy on credit, etc.  We would already have collapsed by now, as production expansion cannot keep up with interest compounding."

If everyone lived within their means, there would be no debt (or interest) that would require ever increasing production.  How we got into this mess and how it could have been avoided is directly related to the original sin of debt financed consumption (no borrowers, no debt).   Greedy people could not refrain from borrowing in order to consume more.

Understand what you are saying about where the US is now - post greedy, debt-financed consumption binge.  The US will be in a long period of decline - particularly relative to much of the emerging world. 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 16:03 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

I would love to go back there Bob, I really would.  But since the introduction of debt money, we cannot have that now. Well, until it crashes.  After it crashes we can go back to real money, do away with fractional reserves, and learn to live with little to no growth due to pulled forward demand.  

I would love to not have to "chase return" and only see the value of my savings go up slowly due to the slow deflation from technological advancement.

pods

 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 17:40 | Link to Comment Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

My slant is, at the end of the day, the banking system's introduction of debt money is necessary, but not sufficient to create the problem.  The borrower is the one who ultimately decides whether to avail one's self of the debt money (at least I don't think many loans have been originated at gun point).  If folks just could of had the discipline to say no, to walk by the candy dish, we would not have many of these problems.  Understand the flip side is the bank shouldn't make loans that can't be easily repaid.  But I am inclined to put more responsibility on me (the borrower) and not someone else (the lender). 

As you might tell, I think folks are generally pretty greedy and selfish (and these foibles are not completely foreign to me, but I like to see myself more disciplined than most!).   These traits show up other related places as too many see themselves as entitled and/or victims - which creates other perverse consequences. 

Appreciate your thoughts on this -- while seeming complex at times, it all comes down to some fairly simple concepts. 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 13:55 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Guess that means the machines are taking over.
Ned Ludd was right!

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 18:13 | Link to Comment AhhhItBurns
AhhhItBurns's picture

Yup. Technology makes people redundant all the time. I remember reading a line a few years ago which said "The database admin overtook the file clerks, and the automatic switchboard overtook the operators". Now, the cloud is overtaking the database admin. I would not be surprised if the bookbinders get wiped out by kindle/nook/etc in the coming years (especially since reading rights are revokable thanks to forms of DRM). The only ones who are safe are garbagemen, and a portion of their job has been taken over by the automated can lifters). Even if times get tougher people will pay to get someone to haul their trash away.

 

I would not be surprised to see a reemergence of luddites in the future...

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 09:59 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

Its funny how they could never cut a salary or a pension to make it more competitive..or sustainable....no never

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:34 | Link to Comment Mactheknife
Mactheknife's picture

The overlooked item here is that postal workers are union guys and short of "going postal" and actually killing someone, they can't be fired. 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:19 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

No need to worry about those pensions. Timmah just took all that. Don't believe that will be refunded when the limit is raised. They will just leave it full of IOU's like SS.

I suppose the thing to worry about now is all the workers going postal when they are laid off with no pension payments. It sounds like a lot of the layoffs will be rural ex-military gun owners.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:01 | Link to Comment pepperspray
pepperspray's picture

I got a call from a postal inspector after I caused a 'disturbance' at the PO demanding my money back on an $18 Express package that was returned to sender.  USPS should can his ass too.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:07 | Link to Comment thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

I hope you properly described to the shiny badge wielding parasite, the orifice which was desperately in need of inspection.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:15 | Link to Comment pepperspray
pepperspray's picture

The Pavlovian postmaster who snitched me out should be rewarded by DHS.  I mean, I only go in there every day, spend 10 grand on postage a year at the counter, and never got a refund on postage, ever.  Throw me a bone, pretend to me like I'm a valued customer-- and this never would have happened in the first place.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:25 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

This is the problem with government...  at any time it can tell you to go fuck yourself...  are you going to lawyer up for $18?  Pay a couple hundred dollars for a federal court filing fee? 

When the government workers are not incentivized to treat you well or otherwise increase their goodwill, then they most certainly will not...  (I suppose they presume the difference will be eaten by taxpayers when you take your business elsewhere?)

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:01 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Indeed. 100 benny bux from 150 million people. Not enough for the individual to fuss over, but a windfall to the coercive monopoly that extorts it.

A small price to pay for your nanny state.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:01 | Link to Comment Michael Victory
Michael Victory's picture

 

after the USPS just announced it was preparing to close 3,653 out of its 32,000 total post office sites

believe it when we see it.

 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:33 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

soooo true...preparing until the congressmen get a deluge of complaints.."NOT in my town!!!"

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:34 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. No line post offices are awesome.

You will subsidize my empty post office, because as Uncle Dick taught us, the American Way of Life is not negotiable!

Otherwise, the workers may go... postal. I wonder how many combat vets this will affect?

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:01 | Link to Comment Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

Kleptofascist socialism?

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:31 | Link to Comment The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

I love the sarcasm of it, but I think Tyler is way off.....................it's actually Kleptosocialist Fascism!

T.E.I.N. everyone!

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:33 | Link to Comment The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

DP.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:45 | Link to Comment Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

Double penetration? No thanks.

To all those voting me down, I say "aw, why?" I am always wary of empty polysyllabic jargon, and I like to mock it when I come across it, even from sites I enjoy. I do know what the words mean ;)

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:03 | Link to Comment Bob Dobbs
Bob Dobbs's picture

The US used to have a post office and a post master in most small towns. Think of New Salem and Mr. Lincoln. Which Best Buy should people pick their mail up in?

I like the new api to the back end Sacrilege.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:59 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

The end of the postage licking era...

NEXT: PRIVATISE THAT SHIT! MAKE THEM PROFITABLE! LET THEM GET CREATIVE!

 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:02 | Link to Comment Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

There's a lot of senators, congressmen and well connected bureaucrats living this scene as we speak ("my empire is crumbling")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp22FYXw6Os

 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:02 | Link to Comment D.O.D.
D.O.D.'s picture

BTFD!  You need an Iphone to kill time playing angry birds...

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:02 | Link to Comment Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

Yes, cutting all these jobs will definitely help the economy greatly.  You see... people without jobs spend... uh... I guess more. 

Does that mean we should outsource every aspect of the bloated centrally planned economy that America has become? Of course the answer is yes,

Yes, yes.  the tired old diatribe of the "government is evil" brigade.  Because we saved SO much money when we outsourced our Wars to Halliburton, didn't we?  Yes... each "contractor" supplied by Halliburton is FAR FAR cheaper to the American than those greedy Soldiers... yes?  oh, wait... Halliburton contractors cost up to 5x what a soldier doing the same thing does?  well... at least Halliburton is efficiently robbing us blind.

Kleptofacism is alive and well... but I hardly think it was the US postal service that has added much to our current debt, nor Social Security (which has added ZERO to our current debt).  let's just crush the parts of our government that actually do work pretty darn well, and give a pass to the true kleptocracy... Big Ag, Big Oil, Big Finance, and Big War.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:08 | Link to Comment thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

Social Security (which has added ZERO to our current debt)

Splain yoself.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:19 | Link to Comment Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

Are you kidding?  Do you even understand what Social Security is and was?

Social Security is 100% funded and has always been 100% funded by tax receipts.  It is still FULLY funded for decades to come.  (based on its huge asset base).  Just look at your check if you have a job... every 2 weeks you'll see something called "FICA" withdrawn.  That has and does pay for Social Security, AND THEN SOME (until recently)

HOWEVER: the Congress/Prez of the past have BORROWED Social Security funds to pay for other areas of goverment. 

This does not meant that Social Security is insolvent.  It means the USG owes SS money.  There is a HUGE SS trust fund sitting there.  (although again, it has been borrowed by past politicians).

Just because past politicians borrowed the money doesn't mean that SS doesn't have a claim to it. 

Going forward (a few decades) if changes are not made THEN Social Security will have cash management issues.  But these are decades away.

Thus: Social Security has not added one red cent to our current debt.  IN FACT: it has been used to plug holes in our operating budget for years.

Now that the bill for SS is about to come due, the congress/prez don't wan to pay for it.  thus: instead they want to STEAL SOCIAL SECURITY FUNDS THAT WERE BORROWED, and claim it's all to "save" SS.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:27 | Link to Comment Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

This is a totally semantic argument, a "trust" funded only with liabilities of an insolvent government isn't really worth much. Social security will become a subordinated creditor of the USA and will not see any of the money it's owed. Any other result would require politicians to be held accountable to their promises and for the rich to basically give back a otn of the money they've received over the past 30 years, so don't hold your breath

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:13 | Link to Comment utgolfer
utgolfer's picture

That argument that SS sustainable going forward is pure mental masturbation and nothing else. Hope it was pleasureable

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:36 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

Actually, the two arguments above your comment pretty much sum up SS. The money was paid, but it was used (stolen?) for other things over time. Now, it will be pushed down to 'subordinate' so we can do things like extending the Bush tax cuts.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:31 | Link to Comment thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

"This does not meant that Social Security is insolvent.  It means the USG owes SS money.  There is a HUGE SS trust fund sitting there.  (although again, it has been borrowed by past politicians).

Just because past politicians borrowed the money doesn't mean that SS doesn't have a claim to it. "

Do you have any idea how delusional this statement is? Honor amongst criminals no doubt.

"Thus: Social Security has not added one red cent to our current debt.  IN FACT: it has been used to plug holes in our operating budget for years."

And but for those SS "borrowings", to whom would the Treasury have sold that incremental issuance? At what rate of interest? Positive SS cash flow was nothing more than a compulsory government debt purchase program, applying downward pressure on yields and enabling profligate spending as you noted. Trust fund? LOL, try inter company asset/liability, eliminated for consolidated financials.

SS is and always was a ponzi scheme, an intergenerational transfer payment. You didn't pay into a fund, you payed for the old bag next door to replant her petunias.

Also I would like to kick you in the shrived little nut sack for the FICA lesson.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:44 | Link to Comment Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

Also I would like to kick you in the shrived little nut sack for the FICA lesson.

well, when you ask retarded questions...

anyway... I don't disagree with you that SS will never get the money it lent back.  That still does not mean it CAUSED the CURRENT debt.

And but for those SS "borrowings", to whom would the Treasury have sold that incremental issuance? At what rate of interest?

I will answer your question with a question, since you are obtuse.

Who has lent to the United States of America the last 3 years?  At HISTORIC low interest rates?  When you figure out that question, then you will perhaps understand the qnswer to your question

On a side note: I am anti-Krugman, anti-Keynsian.  I am anti-Fed.  I am anti-Big Government.  I am not a Socialist either.  I own Gold and Silver (Gasp!)  Boo hoo... I don't fit into your little square.  Maybe you'll have to lick my twat?

Unfortunately, I really have to go... thus I'll check back in a few hours to see if you can figure out the answer to your so-silly questions.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:13 | Link to Comment thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

"Who has lent to the United States of America the last 3 years?  At HISTORIC low interest rates?  When you figure out that question, then you will perhaps understand the qnswer to your question"

You are building your castle on a semantic outcrop, while completely ignoring the economic substance of the matter and incentives (which isn't surprising I suppose given your profession). If you are suggesting that QEx has been running since the day FICA was first collected then I can't help you. If you simply refuse to acknowledge that any revenue stream will be instantaneously spent two-fold, then you are Pollyanna. You should however acknowledge two things 1) Now that the transition to wretched democracy is complete, .gov spending is completely inelastic 2) Politicians will always choose the path of least resistance. Historically so long as SS was cash flow positive redirecting FICA to the community was easier than raising taxes or issuing debt. Given #1 spending could not and did not correct downward with SS cash flow.

Therefore given that FICA is nothing more than a tax and that SS is nothing more than a Ponzi (as I highlighted in the previous post, to which you failed to reply), to the extent the Tax exceed Ponzi payouts it has enabled spending which has resulted in debt issuance.

If SS were set-up as a sovereign wealth fund you would have a point, it is in actuality nothing more than a tax, a lie and a transfer payment. The SS "trust fund" highlights the fatal flaw in representative democracy, the "pie" itself.

As to the licking, send me a picture and we can discuss.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:31 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:48 | Link to Comment Agent P
Agent P's picture

Let's say that every two weeks you also put money into a pension account through your employer.  Now, let's assume that your employer isn't very good with math and on average spends $3 for every $2 in revenue it takes in.  To make up for this shortfall, your employer takes the money you have socked away in your pension account and replaces it with IOUs.  Would you describe your pension account as being fully funded?

 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:18 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Let me explain to you why Social Security has added a tremendous amount to our national debt.

(1) Social Security taxes generate a huge pile of confiscated dollars.
(2) These dollars are then looted by FedGov in order to increase the general level of spending on other, useless "goods" and "services"
(3) The spending is now artificially high.
(4) When Social Security tax confiscations then drop due to demographics, Fedgov now owes Social Security a ton of money
(5) It is now obligated to sell Treasuries in order to raise that money

To sum up: while Social Security does not DIRECTLY add to the debt, it does so INDIRECTLY via the above mechanism.

It conforms to the basic axiom: when you make government bigger, the first thing it does is figure out a way to make itself even MORE bigger.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:24 | Link to Comment Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

incorrect.

The FedGov does not need, nor has it ever needed, a pile of confiscated dollars in which to spend.

I think the downturn of 2007 would have clarified this for you.  All the FedGov need do is go to the Federal Reserve Bank and PRESTO: it can create Trillions of dollars to spend.

The FedGov would and did create tons of debt without Social Security (what is it... like $14Trillion since 2007 or something?), so don't even try to pretend that the debt has ANYTHING to do with SS.

Again: there are FUTURE POTENTIAL liabilities associated with Social Security.  But those are only Potential.  The rules to SS can be changed at ANY time, and everybody knows this.

thus: TO DATE: SS has contributed not one red penny to our debt.

nice twisted logic though, you should go work for the neocons.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:34 | Link to Comment thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

"TO DATE: SS has contributed not one red penny to our debt."

To repeat this statement simply illustrates the requisite, tremendous economic ignorance of socialistas.

"PRESTO trillions of dollars to spend"

The ramblings of Paul Krugman aside, this is not without tremendous cost to the same people paying their Ponzi tax.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:34 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

By this logic, my monthly housepayment is my only debt, not the remainder on my note...  Whenever we erase the oustanding obligations to the trust fund, then we will not owe the debt...  until that day, it is absolutely considered a general obligation of the government (despite being off the more illuminated portion of the books).

Although, I might be willing to entertain an alternative view if you could provide me some type of reasonable and realistic projection for economic and demographic changes sufficient to fulfill our present and expected SS obligations...  (otherwise, those "future potential liabilities" are presently staring us in the face)   [isn't the unfunded portion of this in the tens of trillions?]

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:03 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

well said

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:45 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Your logic is absurd. OF COURSE the FedGov, via its vile partner the Federal Reserve, can create dollars out of thin air willy-nilly. The point is, why did it wait until a massive crisis erupted to finally do it?

Actions have consequences. Why go out and rob a bank (even if you have the power to do so), when there is a huge pile of dollars sitting out in the open in the middle of your neighbor's living room, and their door is wide open?

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 12:28 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

And the idea of simply printing money to pay off the seniors' SS is classic Krugmanesque "ignore the fact that actions have consequences" thinking. Printing money means commodities go up. So the seniors still face effective default on their SS benefits because while the monthly check may arrive, the cost of food and energy has doubled. Any CPI adjustments would always lag the effects of inflation.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:39 | Link to Comment thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

Bravo, don't forget the complete and total inelasticity of spending in a degenerate, dependant democracy.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:24 | Link to Comment Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

I think you've got it half right. I voted you up. The free market is obviously much more efficient than public enterprise, the results speak for themselves (additionally, I think anectdotally that all the ugliest buildings in most cities are government buildings constructed after 1960). 

However where freemarketeers get it wrong is thinking that the efficiency of big business would be a big improvement over government inefficiency. We would all quickly be enslaved if the government were to just drop out of the picture. What we need is to go back to sincere principles of freedom and autonomy, which won't happen as long as those TVs keep glowing all night. So I say: run, save yourself

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:35 | Link to Comment Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

The free market is obviously much more efficient than public enterprise,

I'm not sure this is true.  I know it is oft-repeated, but I'm not sure it's true. 
I would argue, as an example, that Socialized medicine is more efficient than the American model.  it costs FAR less and also has better outcomes.  That is just one example.  FWIW: I'm a doctor who works for a very large practice, so know medicine well.

your claim may have been true a long time ago, before the "Free market" started paying a few people hundreds of millions of dollars a year, and financial overlords extracted hordes of economic rent on capital. 

all that said: perhaps instead of the American model we have you meant the utopian "free market" which does not exist and likely never can exist.  (much like true "communism" never existed, neither did the "free market").

on a side note: Thanks for the upvote... I can already tell that once the new system goes into effect I'll be 100% junked to oblivion... not because I'm a troll.. but because I don't agree and regurgitate the tired right wing propoganda that permeates this board.  Perhaps I need to add more "Gold bitchez" to my comments.

anyway, gotta go... patients calling. Regards.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:40 | Link to Comment thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:42 | Link to Comment Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

I final rebuttal before the door gets shut on this argument, I think we have finance and insurance to thank for the current ineficiency of ostensibly free markets. They are like quasi-administrative/governmental bodies only without the obligation to run for office, and they can extract capital from the system for essentially shuffling around shells in the shell game

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:40 | Link to Comment Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

I don't think you can critisize free markets in the US, since we haven't had any for 100 years.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:57 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I would considerably second guess the notion that large private enterprises are materially more efficient than the government...  look at what has sustained these companies since 2008...  they've managed to cut costs by firing, in large part, unnecessary workers and making other efficiency improvements...  this alone should be ample evidence of the inefficiencies of large corporations...

PS, we are not enslaved if the government drops out of the picture...  we are enslaved if we cease to be politically effective... 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:04 | Link to Comment Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

When I was young it was common for small communities to have their 'post office' in a drug store (which at that time also provided lunch service and soda fountains). The question is 'why did we go away from that model?' It was working and they fixed it!

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:22 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

1)  Privacy, folks used to snoop mail like they listened in on party lines.  Remember those?  Of course, folks peek in on social media now and make millions doing background checks to snoop even more

2)  Theft of stamps (these count as currency under federal law)

3)  Issuing of money orders and more theft problems

4)  VOLUME, especially with junk mail and the need to send off so many bills every month that used to paid locally.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:04 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

I currently live in the Dominican Republic, where there is no official postal service, and I can tell you for a fact that mail delivery SUCKS here. Believe me when I tell you that USPS is much better than the alternative. OK, don't believe me, but it is rue anyway.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:12 | Link to Comment Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

midtowng:

anybody who has been anywhere in the world knows that the USPS works pretty darn well.  For like 40 cents you can send mail anywhere in the country. 
Is it as fast as UPS or FedEx?  Perhaps not... however most of us don't need to send a letter or a bill somewhere in 18 hours, and most of us don't need/want to pay $5 to do it.

but you see... the ideologues really hate government.  ANY government.  Even government that works... you know like the Postal Service... 

Thus they Cheer and Cheer as thousands will lose their jobs... because then we can get more "efficiency".  That's what we call it when you have near-slave labor and then one person making $1B per year or whatever.  It's the ideologues wet dream.

Am I defending all govt programs?  Certainly not.  Many do need to go the way of the Dodo.  However, to claim it is a positive to lose thousands of jobs for an agency that's doing a pretty darn good job that to my knowledge is primarily self-funded through sales (and not tax dollars) is startling.

I hope the same glee is used if/when thousands of FedEx and UPS people lose their jobs.  Efficiency, you know.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:53 | Link to Comment thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

"

anybody who has been anywhere in the world knows that the USPS works pretty darn well.  For like 40 cents you can send mail anywhere in the country. 
Is it as fast as UPS or FedEx?  Perhaps not... however most of us don't need to send a letter or a bill somewhere in 18 hours, and most of us don't need/want to pay $5 to do it.

but you see... the ideologues really hate government.  ANY government.  Even government that works... you know like the Postal Service... "

 

It is insolvent you stupid fuck, it obviously doesn't work. How much did letter cost the USPS to send across town? And from CA to ME? Do you see a pattern here?

In terms of glee, have you actually ever interacted with a postal employee? In a post office? The fat mouth breathing slobs waddling off of their stools to take their quasi-government union guaranteed mid-morning feed break irrespective of the lines, declaring in no uncertain terms that they would rather eat you than talk to you and thanks to their monopoly and their keystone cops, they can/will.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:04 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Government functions aren't typically made to be money making enterprises, including the USPS...  the issue is that we're insolvent, not  that a particular area of the government bleeds money...  (they're virtually all dead ass losses...  the only issue is how long we're willing to pay for them).

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:20 | Link to Comment thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

And the USPS will tell you proudly that it is not a government function.

In any event, then the issue is shitty service. But for monopoly and subsidy, I have little doubt that UPS would provide me better service in first class mail. Would a customer mailing across town be subisidzing one mailing a letter from WA to FL, no and if you have noted the ratio of junk/bills/good stuff in your mailbox as of late this is a good thing. Celebrating the postal service as an accomplishment of government shows just how close the state is to obsolecence.

 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:07 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

ive never seen anyone go cyber postal before

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:04 | Link to Comment Dr.Evil
Dr.Evil's picture

And we are well on our way to convert our health system to something like the USPS!

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:05 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

change you can believe in

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:06 | Link to Comment SokPOTUS
SokPOTUS's picture

More vacant retail space.  RTH Puts FTW.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:10 | Link to Comment Franken_Stein
Franken_Stein's picture

 

That's why I'm telling you:

 

Learn foreign languages, for Christ's sake !

It is fun and thus you can screw a lot of foreign girls !

If this outlook is not a boost, then I don't know what is !

 

Here's some Chinese for you:

 

Personal pronouns:

Wo - I

Ni - You

Ta - He / She

Wo men - We

Ni men - You

Ta men - They

 

That's your Chinese lesson for today.

Hope you enjoyed it.

See you next time and bye bye.

 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:07 | Link to Comment HamyWanger
HamyWanger's picture

"Well by that logic there are private businesses that cover every aspect of the government's "job" much better, and much more efficiently"

Are you saying that between a private company and a public company, it is the private company that is the most efficient??? 

Thankfully, nearly nobody nowadays shares your outdated and extremist views. The United States of America are on their way to become a fully socialist (i.e. humanist) country, and nothing, nothing will stop this march. 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:18 | Link to Comment Mercury
Mercury's picture

Running out of other peoples' money may prove tricky...

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:17 | Link to Comment The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

Anybody know how many down votes before a comment disappears?  (Hamy: No worries...just a coincidence that I asked this question as a reply to your comment...carry-on)

T.E.I.N. everyone! 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:08 | Link to Comment decon
decon's picture

Tyler(s),

"Does that mean we should outsource every aspect of the bloated centrally planned economy that America has become? Of course the answer is yes, but that just does not jive with the current iteration of kleptofascist socialism."

Now now, lets not throw the baby out with the bath water and go too far down the libertarian spectrum.  There are some legitimate functions for government!  You should temper your hyperbole if you want to be taken as credible.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:18 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

police/fire/military (for defense against foreign invasion) and basic infrastructure (roads, sewers, etc) 

Everything else should be done by the private sector. The government is the most ineffiecient and wasteful entity in our society.

Just for one example, why do you think our president sends his kids to private school and not public? Why did our president attend a private university and not a public one? Because the public school system SUCKS SHIT. The quality of education since the inception of the Department of Education has gone straight down the tubes. This is a guy who believes in socialism so you can see the irony

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:12 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

I get two bills a month via snail mail, the rest is garbage. If those two billers got their chit together and did online billing too the CONgreff could eliminate the post office altogether and I wouldn't miss it.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:20 | Link to Comment thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

If the garbage mailers had to pay a market rate of postage from say, California to Maine, the post office would disappear.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:29 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

word

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:15 | Link to Comment Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture
You should come by my post office. I never seen a collection of the most brain dead retards located in the same place. (Zip Code 48316) Got a post office box there once and they gave me the wrong zip code FOR THEIR OWN OFFICE. Had to go back and forth with my online bill paying thing because nobody recognized the the address THEY GAVE ME! Swear the man who did the "order" was mentally handicapped. Lines are usually out the door with no sense of urgency. Even had a guy behind one time say this is the worst post office he has ever been at - You're preaching to the choir I told him ..............   Anyways close half of them all wouldn't miss it. Good luck getting a job with your marketable skills
Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:09 | Link to Comment Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Perhaps we should shut down the entire postal system and hire Kevin Costner to deliver the mail via horse back?

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:21 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

lady godiva, snide_hip

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:09 | Link to Comment dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

My wife had a card returned to her AFTER FOUR MONTHS being somewhere.  Why it was even returned is a mystery.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:10 | Link to Comment Whatta
Whatta's picture

Oh well, there goes my local post office, no doubt. A town of 200+, and in a different county than where I actually reside.

But the service is great, I know my mailman...maybe he stays on with whatever new office takes over.

Maybe WalMart should take over the USPS.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:17 | Link to Comment pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

Hey Whatta,

Speaking of Walmart.....I walked into the local walmart near were I live after not having been there in awhile..wow was I surprised!  The local Walmart now has a police substation on site.  I asked about this and was told one of the reasons was because of the frequent visits by police because shoplifting has increased dramatically.

Next thing you know the TSA will be there!

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:32 | Link to Comment Whatta
Whatta's picture

Police substation in a Wally...dayum.Sounds like they are making them into High Schools...LOL. Let the good times roll.

I drive about 30 miles to visit the nearest WalMart. A town of 12,000. A very blue-color town. There is no police presence there for sure. Mostly very fat, and conversely, very skinny white people wearing clothing that must have originally been purchased at WalMart years ago, worn threadbare,  given to a charity and THEN purchased by the current owners.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:11 | Link to Comment kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

The vast majority of people have been treading water for the better part of the last 40 years while our debt based monetary system bubble (i.e. the largest ponzi scheme ever created) has been inflating.  The deflation is going to be a bitch.  There will be lots of blame to pass around, almost all of it misplaced.  May you live in interesting times.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:11 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

As all ZH'ers know, things are going to be BAD........here is what caused the recession of 1957/58......the debt ceiling.........from ezra klein's column yesterday

 

""The debt ceiling arguably caused a recession in the '50s: In 1959, Marshall A. Robinson wrote "The National Debt Ceiling: An Experiment in Fiscal Policy, " a Brookings Institution monograph arguing that the debt ceiling, first introduced in 1917 and then in its modern form in 1941 (and only increased once between then and the book's writing), had not only failed, but backfired.


The book is long since out of print, but according to this contemporary review in the Journal of the American Statistical Association by Fred Weston of UCLA, Robison points to an incident in 1957, when the Air Force had to stop paying its bills because of the debt ceiling. This led to a sudden $8 billion (1.7 percent of GDP) fall in defense spending, which Robinson credits with the 1957-58 recession. This in turn led to a fiscal year 1959 deficit of $12.4 billion, further suggesting that austerity measures that hurt growth don't end up cutting deficits either." good luck america.........

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:11 | Link to Comment Cassandra Syndrome
Cassandra Syndrome's picture

Get McDonalds to open a Postal Service for their junk. Problem solved

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:38 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Happy Mail with McJunk!

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:11 | Link to Comment pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

Now look for an increase in violence as these laid off postal workers go postal!

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:30 | Link to Comment kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Sure... it's a spiral.  That's kind of what I was getting at above, but I'm guessing the post looked rather random and misplaced.  Contraction will lead to further contraction.  Laid off people spend less, even when on unemployment.  Of course our ability to continue to fund unemployment will end at some point.  Those who spend less impact local business, they lay people off, etc. etc. etc.  The debt based system that kept this country stuck in a mirage of normalcy is coming to an abrupt end.  Lots of consequences, most of them bad.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:15 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Just wait until the tax code gets simplified to a flat tax sans all those volumes of gobbledygook and all those millions of worthless tax professionals (especially the lawyers) get the boot from their quasi private sector jobs and try to find real work in the real private sector.  People forget that H&R block employs more people at 450K than the active Army has in uniform 420K...  Just think of all those tax avoidance folks in corporate America that need to find a real job.  All in all must be at least 5 or 10 million soft, cushy paper pushers that could pick produce or cut lawns at foreclosed properties

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:13 | Link to Comment monopoly
monopoly's picture

This is just starting. Do we really need Saturday delivery. Canada has been on 5 day delivery for years. That would cut more employees and save more money. America, it was good to know ya.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:16 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Get rid of junk mail and the USPS would shrink by 70% overnight

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:14 | Link to Comment Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

I will be interested to see which "local convenience store" scores the USPS outsourcing.  Supermarkets already sell stamps. Efficiency would dictate that it'll be going to some sort of chain.  Then there are synergies to consider...perhaps gun shops or shooting ranges.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:29 | Link to Comment pepperspray
pepperspray's picture

Here's the model they can follow:

http://www.centerofthekingdom.com/memberpages/Curriers_Quality_Market.html

Post office, taxidermy, grocery, and hunting supplies all under one glorious roof.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:45 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

It wouldn't have to be a chain since the mail carrier network will still exist. The C-Stores would just be a bigger stop for them, like the way UPS and Fedex partnered with Kinko's et al. It just condenses the traffic for them.

Which isn't to say a chain might provide more consistent service, but just that it isn't a requirement. Well, I guess it will depend on the contracts the USPS comes up with.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:17 | Link to Comment oldmanagain
oldmanagain's picture

There is often population shifts, particularly in rural areas.  NOT a communist plot.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:17 | Link to Comment TwoHoot
TwoHoot's picture

The constitution outlines about 4 things the Federl Government is supposed to do: Defense, Post Office, Sound Currency and Foreign Relations. It doesn't mention Health, Education, Housing, Welfare, Agriculture, Labor Relations, and on and on and on.

It would be very easy to balance the budget and lower the debt ceiling if they would just mind their own constitutional business and leave everything else alone.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:38 | Link to Comment r00t61
r00t61's picture

But therein lies the rub.  Why would any government, US version or other, voluntarily restrain itself of power?  Even the Constitution was a disturbing power grab to many Anti-Federalists after the Articles of Confederation were deemed not powerful enough.  Throughout history the US government has been marching a mostly 2 steps forward, no steps back parade of ever-increasing power.  Lincoln was obviously a watershed moment.  So was the income tax, the Federal Reserve, WWI, and WWII. 

 

Government is all about the exercise of power.  Thus no government is ever going to voluntarily give up power, and in all likelihood, is going to seek methods of increasing its power as it can and will do.  Some governments in history, like dictatorships, already start with most, if not all, the power, and so they don't have very far to go before the system collapses.  The US government started out small, at least compared to the other big governments that were in existence at the time (the British, the French, the Prussian), and so it's taken two centuries for it to get to where it is today.  It's still small compared to true dictatorships like Stalinist Russia and Maoist China.  But the current trajectory places it squarely on course to reach those levels of absolutist power, until the walls come crashing down.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:39 | Link to Comment r00t61
r00t61's picture

But therein lies the rub.  Why would any government, US version or other, voluntarily restrain itself of power?  Even the Constitution was a disturbing power grab to many Anti-Federalists after the Articles of Confederation were deemed not powerful enough.  Throughout history the US government has been marching a mostly 2 steps forward, no steps back parade of ever-increasing power.  Lincoln was obviously a watershed moment.  So was the income tax, the Federal Reserve, WWI, and WWII. 

 

Government is all about the exercise of power.  Thus no government is ever going to voluntarily give up power, and in all likelihood, is going to seek methods of increasing its power as it can and will do.  Some governments in history, like dictatorships, already start with most, if not all, the power, and so they don't have very far to go before the system collapses.  The US government started out small, at least compared to the other big governments that were in existence at the time (the British, the French, the Prussian), and so it's taken two centuries for it to get to where it is today.  It's still small compared to true dictatorships like Stalinist Russia and Maoist China.  But the current trajectory places it squarely on course to reach those levels of absolutist power, until the walls come crashing down.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:19 | Link to Comment march52011
march52011's picture

This course of action was inevtibale, and it's about time.

It is time to start downsizing the federal government.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 12:47 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

The downsizing will come from services people use, not from agencies designed for repression, like the TSA or the Department of Homeland Security.  I can't even see them giving up the deathgrip on education, because how better to mold the future.  As the Jesuits always said, "Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man." 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:19 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

.

 

If the Castro Brothers can let 500,000 of the Cuban government workers go like they did in 2010, in an island nation of 11 million, then we should be able to slim down big time. Better to do it voluntarily now than involuntarily later. Never thought I'd see a Cuban government outflank an American one on the right.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:24 | Link to Comment pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

WOW, is this ironic or what.  Looking at history on this day   July 26 , 1775  
" members of the Second Continental Congress, meeting in Philadelphia, agreed ". . . that a Postmaster General be appointed for the United States, who shall hold his office at Philadelphia, and shall be allowed a salary of 1,000 dollars per annum . . . ."

The birthday of the US Postal service is today and the first postmaster was Ben Franklin.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:31 | Link to Comment Arch Duke Ferdinand
Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:31 | Link to Comment SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

Yes, give it all to "for profit" corporations Tyler, after all the free market's worked so well without government controls hasn't it... how's health care working for you (shit results for twice as much as those "socialist" single pay models)... private prisons (so they can buy off judges to create business)... private education (sure, educate the wealthy and forgat about the poor)...

Simple minded trite from the right...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:41 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

First off, the government was/is heavily involved with our healthcare system (protip- that's what drove prices so high) the government is heavily involved in the education system through college (protip- that's why prices for college tuition are at all time highs) If you don't think the government was involved in the housing bubble, than you are insane or just stupid. 

And in-terms of the quality of health care before Obamacare, why do you think the leaders of nations from single payer systems of healthcare came to America to get their major medical work done like heart surgery? Musta' been because the care is sooooo much better there right? Here is one example, you can find the rest as I don't have the time to get all the links from leaders around the world who came here for healthcare http://biggovernment.com/publius/2010/02/02/canadian-premier-comes-to-u-s-for-health-care/

Go back to huffpo

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:02 | Link to Comment SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

thanks for the "edgumication" bob... sorry, u r right... now stick that TP brainwashed head back in it's anal receptacle before you do some real damage... tip: u may want to expand your information base beyond anti government rant sources, there actually is a real world out there

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 12:01 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

.

 

Bob-D,

Exactly right. Milton Friedman was a huge critic who correctly pointed out that massive government programs cause huge demand driven price hike distortions in sectors of the economy, pricing things out of range for the average person. The prime example: $500 military toilet seats ---  the government has a monopoly in a captured system.

Government intrusion into health care and college has been creating $500 toilet seat equivalents. Costs outpacing inflation year YOY. Private sector solutions are more efficient and helps more of the disadvantaged.

Besides, government control of higher education seems to be aimed at creating more economic illiterates. Proof is everywhere. 

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 12:57 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

I believe those $500 toilet seats are just a bookkeeping trick to fund black ops.  I think they might have paid slightly more than retail for government toilet seats because of graft, etc., but the lions share went to pay for things .gov could never publically admit to funding and things .gov could never admit to doing.   

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 11:19 | Link to Comment Catullus
Catullus's picture

You're right. If only the pharmaceutical companies could have created the drug distribution network like the local public high school, they wouldn't have needed to force Obamacare down everyone's throats. For the administrative costs of paying off the cops, they could have had a brilliant cash operation.

It's cool, pinko. Your intellectual movement sold out for a welfare check decades ago.

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 10:32 | Link to Comment Paul Bogdanich
Paul Bogdanich's picture

"Well by that logic there are private businesses that cover every aspect of the government's "job" much better, and much more efficiently”

 

That is base propaganda.  I get a lot of packages some heavy some light.  For anything under 25 pounds crossing more than three zones USPS Priority Mail is two to three days faster than UPS and one or two days faster than Fed Ex and at lower cost.  Now if "efficiently" really means outrageous salaries for the CEO and as little as possible for anyone under the O level then I suppose that's true. 

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