Grand Plan 2 Or Grasping At Straws?

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Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:33 | 1920512 AngryGerman
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Was there a grand plan 1?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:33 | 1920513 Golden Boy
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Wow, the anti-eur rhetoric is nuts here today.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:46 | 1920555 Lord Welligton
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But where is the solution.

It's not Anti Euro as such.

It's anti madness.

If "they" come up with something that is reasonable and can be seen to have a chance of working then fine.

Otherwise the Euro is toast.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:33 | 1920515 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

Wake up and smell the QE3

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:38 | 1920530 Ivanovich
Ivanovich's picture

Exactly.  This is what is driving the madness.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:42 | 1920539 bernorange
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Doom is a bullish sign for currency debasement.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:46 | 1920554 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture

Like Forrest said 'stupid is as stupid does' and 'that's all I got to say about that.'

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 10:30 | 1920730 IrritableBowels
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Really?  In what form? And why today?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 10:32 | 1920732 SheepDog-One
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Well...the RUMOR of QE3 anyway, which is certainly nothing new its a year old.

So lets price in QE3 just for fun, it would have to be massive, $4 trillion or so, so the result of QE3 would be oil at around $140 and gold at $2,400 or so....good lets seem them do that!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:35 | 1920521 GMadScientist
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France and Germany now accepting applications for these positions:

- EuroSerf

- Potato Farmer (Poles preferred)

- Pepper Farmer (Hunkies preferred)

- Bespoke Thong Maker (Bunga preferred)


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:37 | 1920524 e2thex
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In theory, theory and practice work. In practice they do not.---Yogi Berra


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:52 | 1920579 fonzanoon
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tremendous quote

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:37 | 1920526 Cdad
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It really is too bad that the IMF rumor IS JUST A RUMOR, and a disproved rumor at that .  Personally, I would have loved to discover that even more leverage was being used on top of the leverage that currently exists in the system...all of it chasing debt that is certain to be written off and stocks that are priced for stupid.  Oh well.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:43 | 1920541 GMadScientist
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Worry not; just because they failed to tip the can of turpentine into the blaze doesn't mean they aren't
still fanning the flames and just as far from putting out the conflagration.


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:37 | 1920528 Snakeeyes
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Greece and Portugal didn't get memo. Or are they considered too far gone for the EFSF or any future IMF bailout? Monday’s Euro Update: Slight Improvement in Bond Yields


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:41 | 1920534 razorthin
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"it seems the main reason for a market rally is the amrageddon-like scenario of the break-up and the typical belief that 'the-worse-it-gets, the-better-it-will-be-in-the-end', so buy.


Pathetically true.  So let's just skip the real pain and move right on to nirvana.  The above will make perfect sense at spx 400.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:44 | 1920545 oogs66
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really think it is that bad?  why not spx 900?  and guess what, when they do all the bailouts, the next crisis, probably a few months away, spx 400 would be a dream, either than or $10 a gallon gas?  who knows, but why does s&p have to go down that much if they let countries default and weakest banks get wiped out? 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:50 | 1920561 razorthin
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If they step back and let the deflation happen and the credit evaporate as they should for a long term solution, then even spx 400 is quite ambitious.

But, you are probably correct.  They'd sooner see $10 gas before it reverts to $0.25

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 10:26 | 1920710 e2thex
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SPX 400, DJIA 4000.....ain't gonna happen.  Today's rise was in Friday's close. Forget the news. That's all noise.  






What happens?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:41 | 1920535 Flounder
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CAC40 up 6.5% since Friday afternoon

CAC40 down 25.5% since July

If you experience an erection that lasts more than 4 hours seek medical attention.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:47 | 1920562 i-dog
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Oh!? ... I didn't read that bit ... I always look for somewhere to bury it!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:42 | 1920536 spanish inquisition
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The hopium is strong today, I wonder if they injected something into the turkeys? Maybe they releasing happy gas in the malls? ("mummy whats to shop!" That is what I heard in the malls spoken like Dennis was weird)

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:42 | 1920537 Josephine29
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The problem with the IMF providing 600 billion Euros is that it does not have it as explained below.

How much firepower does the IMF have?


This is not as easy a concept as you might think but let me run through some numbers and I will put them in US dollars as so few people have any concept of what an SDR actually is.The numbers are from the IMF website and are from late summer.

Quota Value US $362 billion

Ability to borrow (NABs etc) US $ 600 billion.

Amount Lent US $ 69 billion

Amount Promised but not drawn US $213 billion

Potential Firepower US $680 billion

So if you remember that is for the whole world and not just Italy it is well short...


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:43 | 1920542 AngryGerman
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and they do not get any backing from

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 10:07 | 1920644 SheepDog-One
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$600 billion Euros? Just last week they found a $4 trillion unfixable new debt problem in Europe...they'd need to announce $10 trillion in new Euros now just to get back to dead broke.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:42 | 1920540 lizzy36
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The IMF has about $285B to lend, so what moron believe they have EUR600B to lend to Italy alone.

Retail Sales numbers are at best guesses, by the Retail Sales Federation and ShopperTrak. Like an obese person self reporting their diet like caloric intake (really they ate salad as their main course, just for got to mention that their sides were 2 big macs and 3 large fries).

ShopperTrak reports +6.6% gain in retail sales. How did they come to this conclusion: ShopperTrak “uses equipment installed in stores to measure traffic.” Not that is not SALES but TRAFFIC.


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:43 | 1920543 AngryGerman
AngryGerman's picture

yep, it's like fucking without coming

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:49 | 1920567 LawsofPhysics
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Expect a lot of this as the propaganda machine goes into overdrive.  Lots of semantics will be used to make the bad new more palatable for the sheeple.  Pretty clear to everyone that the last 40 years has been made possible by an exponential increase in the shadow banking sector, now over 700 trillion in bad paper.  Everyone simply needs to stop paying taxes and focus on their local economies.  We will end up there eventually anyway, so why not get a head start.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 10:05 | 1920637 SheepDog-One
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Only problem is the sheeple are all broke, why go to such extravagant lengths to fool people who cant even buy food and shelter much less shares of worthless stocks?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 10:11 | 1920652 SheepDog-One
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Yea 'traffic' measured as 'retail sales'? All BS, sales may be at all time lows as far as anyone knows. 

Also the 'official numbers' of $30 billion in sales are a fart in the wind....that means EVERY american alive spent $100? Or if 10% went shopping, theyd have to have spent $1,000 to support that claim? No way do I believe it.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:44 | 1920544 bnbdnb
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Its so funny watching the obvious manipulation of the EURUSD. Every time its about to breach the PSAR it pops 10 pips.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:44 | 1920546 The Axe
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out of my 10000 citibank....thanks for your support.... may the force be with all of ZH....

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:49 | 1920547 MFL8240
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If the IMF is talking about such a massive program, a program far beyond the scope or scale of anything else they have ever done, where are they going to get the money?


Was this question neccessary?  Where does everyone think this printed money is coming from??

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:54 | 1920571 LawsofPhysics
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I have an idea, give them the world's reserve currency for a change, stop printing dollars and watch the value of the Euro fucking evaporate as they print it into oblivian.  Most people I know are sitting on cash and physical anyways.  Let the local economies thrive, fuck the central planners.

Many farmers can't find workers.  End the SNAP program and replace it with a one way bus ticket to the nearest farm that needs laborers.  Pay them minimum wage and all the fresh produce they can eat.  You will solve the obesity problem, the health care problem, AND the unemployment problem all at once.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 10:22 | 1920693 j.darkness
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Eloquent, LawsofPhysics, solutions abound and they will be ignored.  I've been lurking and learning here for over a year now and while its always been a bit on edge, now seems particularly fragile.  The accelerating rise in value of otc cds noted here earlier seems like the beginning of the end game.  It reminds me of some kind of slow moving explosion that can only be stopped by a much larger one.  Keep up the good work. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:53 | 1920584 mayhem_korner
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Where does everone think this printed money is coming from??


Why from the printers, of course.  ;)

I think we should refrain from - if not reject outright - the phrase "printed money."  If it's origins is a printer, it may be currency, but it shirley ain't money.  That equities of any flavor rise on the hopes that someone will agree to inject more unbacked currency into the FUBAR system is evidence of a flatline condition.  :D

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:46 | 1920556 ucsbcanuck
Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:52 | 1920576 adr
adr's picture

-etail sales are way down from last year. They may do some neilsen box type shit with the number by counting NYC and \ sales and apply it across the country. Outside of government welfare sponsored consumerism the picture was horrible. My wife works retail and they didn't come close to last year's Black Friday despite being open for 6 hours longer. The crowds were very subdued in my area. By 3AM Best Buy was a ghost town, There were pallets of doorbuster TVs left, the $5 movie bins were still full. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:57 | 1920603 SheepDog-One
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How can they so efficiently tally retail sales the next DAY for 'Black Friday' reporting, but for all other economic data its months old?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:52 | 1920580 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Blah, just another spike in a bear market-  pretty typical in history.....

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:55 | 1920592 Everybodys All ...
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It must be mentioned if the IMF indeed begins to bail out any country then they are essentially barred from the financial markets from selling their sovereign bonds. It's game over and austerity is forced on the selected country. If that's bullish then I contend you're trading in a broken market. Thanks again to a guy with an ugly beard in DC.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:55 | 1920593 arkady
arkady's picture

What about this story from Bloomberg that strongly suggests as if some banks are awaiting QE3.


I can't tell if this is just a rumor or confirmed news though, it is written in an awkward manner.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:56 | 1920596 SheepDog-One
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The worse things are, the better! Hell I always said when Russian nukes impact Manhattan island, the DOW will spike up +300 at least.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:57 | 1920597 RobotTrader
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Why aren't the gold-clutching gloomers here cheering?

A huge rally in stocks is the only way gold will ever see $1,850 again.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 10:00 | 1920611 SheepDog-One
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Rally in stawks makes gold go up? I thought you said gold clutching gloomers better cheer more money printing as the only way gold goes up. 

You still mad you sold all your gold at $900? Dont let it get to you so much, it will eat you up, just forget your terrible calls and move on.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 10:01 | 1920614 CPL
CPL's picture

It's okay Greg, gold isnt the only ship rising.  Oil.  WTI.  Texas Tea.


BTW rally just broke.  Isn't Oil a bitch. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 09:59 | 1920607 CPL
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I thought it was going to take until 10:30 for the HFT's to go on the sell side.


WTI just broke $100 a barrel and broke their ridiculious plan.  Gold and silver are going apeshit as well.


RSI shit the bed.  EMA...nothing moving but bots.  There is going to be a Bull raping today.  Numbers are all backwards and screaming massive fall.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 10:01 | 1920615 SheepDog-One
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Oil at $100 really screws their stock pumping fantasies.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 10:06 | 1920638 CPL
CPL's picture

It's the best example of a ratchetted trade countering the inflation these yahoos are playing with if I've ever seen one.  I now want tptb to inject another trillion into the system. 


WTI hits $100, market shits the bed.  S&P, DJIA can be any number we would like it to be but the physical nature of oil and the fact nobody goes anywhere without it, it's the reflection of the amount of money being pumped into the system.


Notice how Goldman, JPM, etc all note Gold will be 2k by the end of the year?  They mention absolutely nothing in terms of market performance.  My favorite thing though is their complete avoidance of the issue of oil pricing.  Scares the shit out of them.  It should.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 10:00 | 1920612 Tsar Pointless
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Retail sales up 7% Y/O/Y, with real inflation running @ 12% or more.

Did you try to buy a fake Christmas tree this weekend? They're only up about 300% or so in price from last year.

Yep, one hell of an economy we have here, bitchez!

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