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Greece Has Defaulted: Here Is Where We Stand

Tyler Durden's picture




 

After reading this, everyone should have a fairly good grasp of what happened not only today, but ever since the great (and quite endless) European financial crisis took center stage, and what to look forward to next...

From Chindit13

In a nutshell---okay, a coconut shell---this seems to be where we are:

1)  Greece was able to write off 100 billion euros worth of debt in exchange for a 130 billion rescue package of new debt, of which Greece itself will receive 19%, or about 25 billion, so that it can continue to operate as an ongoing concern.  Somehow Greece is in a better position than before, with more debt and less sovereignty and still---by virtue of sharing a common currency---trying to compete toe-to-toe with the likes of Germany and the Netherlands, kind of like being the Yemeni National Basketball team in an Olympic bracket that includes the US, Spain and Germany.  At least a "within the euro" default prevented bank runs in Portugal, Spain, Italy et al.

2)  As a result of the bond haircuts, Greece has many pension plans that can no longer even pretend to be viable, at least according to the original contracted scheme, but pensionholders still working can take heart in the fact that their current wages will be cut, too.

3)  CDS buyers will have to sweat bullets, jump through hoops, and be forced to endure every cliche known to man, but they might end up getting something for all their trouble, provided their counterparty is solvent and that counterparty itself is not heavily exposed to an insolvent party or a NTBTF institution, otherwise known as a Lehman Brothers.  Expect the legal profession to be the prime beneficiary of this "event", as any new CDS contract will be at least a hundred pages of boilerplate longer in the future.

4)  Good luck to any less than AAA rated sovereign who wants to issue debt from now on out.  That contracts can now be unilaterally abrogated, as Greece' bonds were with the retro-CACs, bodes ill for attractive pricing from here on out.  Peripherals in the EU will suffer most, as they face the added indignity of being subordinated to the ECB at any point the ECB chooses to exercise its divine right of seniority.  The thing that used to be called the risk free rate no longer exists.  Bill Sharpe take note.

5)  One hundred billion euros worth of perceived wealth evaporated.  That can not be a good thing for a Eurobanking system already capital short, as it raises leverage (quick back of the envelop calculation) by about 6% across the board.  It also will not make the interbank market any more trusting, thus increasing the likelihood of perpetual LTRO.  LTRO lll looks to arrive sooner than QE lll.

6)  With the drawn-out Greek event and the LTRO, Europe might believe it has firewalled the system for at least three years and limited damage to Greece and Portugal (who will likely undergo a similar default by the 3rd quarter).  LTRO-provided liquidity, it is hoped, will lower market rates enough in Spain and Italy so that those countries can meet sovereign bond obligations and both service existing debt and issue new debt.  When the LTRO expires in 2015, "hopefully" something called organic growth will have taken over in countries imposing severe austerity measures on their public sectors, so that debt servicing becomes easier.  Organic growth obviously is something that comes in a can, a can which has been kicked out to 2015.

7)  As Europe now speaks increasingly of greater EU financial integration, Sarkozy's poll numbers will be the victim and a less EU friendly individual will likely win the upcoming election.  Since France and Germany fortunately have a long and storied history of being the best of friends, and no one in either country would ever pander to nationalist sentiments, this shouldn't present a problem.

8)  Given how much angst was caused by the drawn out Greek affair, the Spanish leader knows he has enormous leverage with EU leadership and he can continue to do what he has been doing with regard to ignoring the deficit targets demanded/suggested by the EU.  The EU might well bark at him, but they cannot afford to bite at this time.  Muchos gracias, Greece.

 

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Fri, 03/09/2012 - 20:35 | 2241921 AbruptlyKawaii
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does the isda decision mean cds will pay off?

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 20:45 | 2241952 AbruptlyKawaii
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thank you cheers

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 21:09 | 2242027 CompassionateFascist
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ZOG banksters have got Greece buried under so much paper it'll never be heard from again. Might be able to do it w Spain too. Italy, prolly not. In any case, IranWar will have busted out long before then, so it won't matter; oil at $250 per will burn all the paper away.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 21:25 | 2242060 john39
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the U.S. is being fleeced at the same time.  most won't realize it until after the process is finished.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 21:53 | 2242125 Doña K
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It looks like a bailout of the banks not Greece as Greece only gets 19% of it. There will be some hanging in the square soon.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 22:31 | 2242224 jeff montanye
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maybe not hangings, but it might be time to put on a food taster.  and some kevlar.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 22:55 | 2242256 The Big Ching-aso
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It's about time they greefaulted.   I wonder if they give a shit?

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 22:57 | 2242292 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Maybe this was their strategy all along?  Play this thing out for so f'ng long that nobody gives a shit, or even notices once it does finally happen?

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:07 | 2242309 The Big Ching-aso
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Ya, like a slow-motion movie train wreck without sound effects.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 01:45 | 2242620 Michael
Michael's picture

Complete and total worldwide economic collapse on the way bitches.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 02:13 | 2242648 resurger
resurger's picture

yup!

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 09:31 | 2242920 GetZeeGold
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Phones ringing.

 

It's Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland.....I guess it's a conference call.

 

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 10:13 | 2242952 Uchtdorf
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Thanks for sharing that!

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 02:05 | 2253134 AbruptlyKawaii
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blues ;)

 

this whacha looking fo baby ya ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuYGojwNfTQ

 

and in swedish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3G4xKUaYe8&feature=related

blues is all that counts baby

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 10:03 | 2242942 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Actually that first name is it. Greece Default Headline Fatigue whiel out there in Spain, in a country that once ruled alongside GB is saying No mas.

And look, Syria is on the 33rd parallel too. 

it is all unfloding as per plan....North/South AND East/West.

Check it out...

 

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/03/09/axis-of-evil-doing/

 

ori

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 03:03 | 2242683 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Does this mean I shouldn't renew magazine subscriptions for those good 2 year discount deals?   Btw, do U happen to have some Mayan ancestry?

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 06:06 | 2242805 Michael
Michael's picture

Why yes, by blood I do.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 03:24 | 2242729 aceofswords
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'Complete and total worldwide economic collapse on the way bitches'......

 

Let the 'games' commence after close of business on 17th March 2012!

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 06:46 | 2242818 ChrisFromMorningside
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May 1st.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 13:30 | 2243195 HAL 9000
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Has the mission been completed? You know that I have the greatest enthusiasm for it.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 20:18 | 2243932 fiddy pence haf...
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it's gonna be a HOLOF.I.R.E.

Get your marshmallows.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 01:46 | 2242621 Michael
Michael's picture

Got guns and popcorn?

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 02:27 | 2242671 Yamaha
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Two new guns and reloading equipment this weekend - but I really like the grenade launchers!  Bought two of them........

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 07:16 | 2242834 FubarNation
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Load up on components especially primers  Shortages are starting to show up.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 07:52 | 2242861 cossack55
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True. Primers were the problem during the last ammo shortages.  Reloaders are on the bottom of the distribution list.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 03:06 | 2242685 The Big Ching-aso
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Yer gonna need guns to defend yer popcorn.   Sounds like eating on the go is gonna be de rigueur.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 04:13 | 2242763 Michael
Michael's picture

The Ruger SR 9 leaves nice patterns.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 07:56 | 2242864 Dull Which
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I think it's either not give a shit or not know.... BBC.co.uk this morning: NO mention of the decision/default and therefore obviously no mention that those who signed up voluntarily have been shafted less than 7 hours later....

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 15:37 | 2243448 smiler03
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You needed to look at the BBC business page, it was covered more or less "live" yesterday.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:27 | 2242364 oogs66
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Who is they? Greek puppet politicians and ECB care. Citizens think they care, but have been lied to

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 00:58 | 2242373 The Big Ching-aso
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The finance-wizard ouzo boys, Columbo.   Who do you think greefaulted, the Swiss?

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:05 | 2242307 Imminent Collapse
Imminent Collapse's picture

I thought that Greece actually had to bring money to the table - now Greece gets 19% of the proceeds? Sounds like they did OK. Anyone know which story is true?

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 00:23 | 2242474 Doña K
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Read point 1 of the article.

100B for 130B Greece gets 25B to pay salaries and pensions, buy oil etc, and the 5B goes to the banks. result: Greece now owes more than before and will default again come September. Greek banks own CDS's and maybe they will get some money to ssustain themselves for a while.

Merry go arround until the fat lady sings. Please don't ask who she is!

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 00:36 | 2242497 The Big Ching-aso
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The fat lady.    Is it Mangela?

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 00:41 | 2242507 UP Forester
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Mangela Urkel?

 

"Did I do that?"

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 11:08 | 2243015 Bendromeda Strain
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thanks for the chuckle...

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 03:18 | 2242726 mt paul
mt paul's picture

fat lady ?

too much baklava

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 07:54 | 2242863 cossack55
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Kate Smith?

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 09:25 | 2242916 Rakshas
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Just arbitrarily listening to tunes while trying to decide what to do next, then this one from Matt Good started playing, few years old but certainly made me stop for a few minutes and listen and forget this bullshit for a while....... fukin reality always comes back though, kind of like herpes, or Greek troubles......

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AY3Nta3Ev4&ob=av2e

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 09:27 | 2242918 Caggge
Caggge's picture

Hillary sings too?

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 12:36 | 2243116 tamboo
tamboo's picture

one of those fat yid supreme court bitchez.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 13:12 | 2243160 Handyman
Handyman's picture

Lots of duct tape.....I mean lipstick, on that PIIG.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 13:12 | 2243161 Handyman
Handyman's picture

Lots of duct tape.....I mean lipstick, on that PIIG.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 11:07 | 2243010 sessinpo
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Doña K"

It looks like a bailout of the banks not Greece as Greece only gets 19% of it. There will be some hanging in the square soon."

 

I doubt it. The main population and protestors don't even know who their real enemy is. They have been doing sporadic protests for over a year now with a few eruptions of riot like destruction but that is only because their economic situation is depression like. Sovereingty and personal freedom isn't quite understood over there because they have been socialist for the longest time under a nanny state. Just compare the Greek protests to that of the Arab Winter, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and Syria. The people there/are ferocious in their protest, giving up their lives. You say that to a Greek and they get upset. But I say "Hey, freedom isn't free."  The majority of Greeks haven't figured this out yet, only a few realize it.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:35 | 2242382 DaveyJones
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" kind of like being the Yemeni National Basketball team in an Olympic bracket that includes the US, Spain and Germany."

the real problem is that none of the players will admit it's really the special olympics

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 00:38 | 2242501 i_fly_me
i_fly_me's picture

Actually, your analogy is more apt than that. 

To the players, it is just "The Olympics;" they aren't even aware of the larger context.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 01:03 | 2242546 DaveyJones
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that's how special they are

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 02:48 | 2242694 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

 

Ya know, the bottomline is it looks like the Greeks financially phucked most everyone in the ass.   Can't say I'm surprised.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 11:58 | 2243064 GeorgeHayduke
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There had to be a "first one" to kick at this corrupt Ponzi pyramid of paper cards and start it toppling over. Good for the Greeks.

I always enjoy hearing the folks who bitch about the prey fighting back against their financial predators.

This global political/financial parasitic vampire system has commoditized everything, including people who used to be citizens. Time for the sheep to become responsible for their own future.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 15:33 | 2243444 CompassionateFascist
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With 61% of the employed adult population "working" at "government jobs", Greece has been short on CITIZENS for some decades now...mostly just SUBJECTS who want back on the socialist teat. Banksters and Socialists deserve each other.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 15:59 | 2243491 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

Yeah, I know what you mean. I live near several military bases and there are a ton of "private" contractors here who have never made a single cent outside of government contractors. Yet they think they're part of the productive economy. HAHAHA.

Really funny isn't? Especially when most of their employees are uptight, libertarian/republican types who hate paying taxes, etc... Yep, those Greeks are a bunch of lazy, unproductive types aren't they? Too bad they aren't invading countries to set things aright. If they were, then those government "workers" you are talking about could be called "productive". 

Looks like I just need gain a better understanding of how freedom, productive work and citizenship works in the fascist business model.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 01:36 | 2242609 Lux Fiat
Lux Fiat's picture

Thanks. Needed to clean my screen - now it's no longer optional.

How apropos that the Olympics started in Greece.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 00:18 | 2242466 fonestar
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Fleeced or strip-mined.  When the American public finally meets the concept of scarcity, there will be blood in the streets.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 04:52 | 2242778 Incubus
Incubus's picture

there will be blood in the streets.

We already have that on every black friday and when [insert latest 'landmark' electronic device] gets released.

 

If you want to see how America will "end," just take a look at Detroit. America will rust away when the money stops.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 11:26 | 2243030 trav7777
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There isn't blood in the streets unless the merchandise in question is highly desired by black people.

Detroit went the opposite direction of Pittsburgh for the same reason...blacks.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 12:26 | 2243112 AmericanFUPAcabra
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That shit is so last decade. This decade is special release Nike shoe riots. I've read atleast 8 articles since blk friday about near riots, drive bys, break ins and forced entry (into malls) over nike shoe releases. 

When asked the people reply -to resell them later. they cost 200 and they can resell them for 3-4 down the road. This is how uneducated people "invest"

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 01:51 | 2242586 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

From the PDF link offered by DormRoom:

The CDS writers will [only have to] pay the face value of the CDS LESS the redeemable value of the bonds (after haircut principal). That amount looks to be around 3.5 Billion. What does that mean. Well it comes out to less than 2% of the record 144$ Billion bonuses taxpayers paid the street for the outstanding "g*d's work" they delivered to the sheeple grazing in the Valley of the Bling Dolls for fiscal 2010.

Question: Is the after haircut value of the CDS insured bonds a real value, or, is a smaller percent of funny money really nothing more than: a smaller amount of funny money?

From here:

Overall the cost to bondholders, based on the net present value of the debt, will be at least 70 percent of the investment, Moody's said.

So the bondholders dropped to their knees and accepted a 30% promise on 100% of the purchased face. The CDS holders got used and abused!

That is always the outcomeL CDS Writers are eternally blessed by guardian karma tikis while the CDS and bondholders get royally screwed, mind you, without any K&Y, or reach around,  in their rubbed raw double secrets where the sun don't never shine, at least, until this very moment, anyhows.

It always ceases to amaze. Who is not surprised at the outcome: the anticipated delay in calling a default a default. Sheeeeit, Greek was in default back in August,

Did the central banks needed more time to acquire additional stocking space for extra ink jet cartridges?

More likely money center primary banks placed both the debt and the insurance, both totally unsecured and both totally absent of anything remotely resembling reserve requirements. Then they blackmailed the bond and CDS holders to accept pocket change from their 2011 bonus package. Why didn't I think of that. It's beautiful. A non PONZI PONZI Scheme!

The grand logic suggests the formalizing of the "event" will prevent the other PIIGS from going into default.

If you believe that, send me a PM requesting info about a great new "get richer than shit all over again" opportunity as an "Instant Water" Franchisee. Just empty the contents of an "Instant Water" packet into a glass and "just add water" (snappy catchy stuff, huh?). Lines will be forming out the door as sheeple in the valley of bling invade local Wal Marts with hopes to be the talk of the hood while impressing dinner guests by serving "Instant Water" with a tasty pudding of "Roadkill Wellington".

Right now all the fiats are collapsing in lock step. For most of today's market, the USD was gaining against the EUR and at the same time GOLD ENERGY and Equities were humping up. It was the weirdest thing ever, datz fer sure!

The unspeakable has begun and a great nothingness approaches. We are beyond conjunctures and metaphor. Fuck hope. Change with extreme prejudice to follow.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 13:01 | 2243145 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Must agree and I think a book could be written about what went on in the sloMo train wreck of Greece if you really wanted to follow the money.  I confess there were other daily soap operas I followed more closely than the Greek snoozefest at least in part because I have always just thought it was a scheme to screw the little guys in Athens.  Nobody I would ever pity is dumb enough to own or speculate in PIIGS debt, it was all institutional money, and the reality is that in the end no high net worth person outside of Greece is going to lose a dime because of the years long scam that was the Greek default.  Neither will the banks because the ECB will print to make them whole, neither will the CDS writers because they took in more premiums than they will pay out, and on and on.  In the end the only people to feel any pain will be the Greek 99% and they will do nothing about it.  Ditto for all other countries and the USA will eventually be among those. 

It is a reset certainly, a collapse of the Ponzi, but remember in any Ponzi the original investors get rich and everybody else loses, the later you invest the more you lose, in theory those that get rich from this illegal scheming are arrested and sent to prison, but when the inventors of the Ponzi are the law then all you get are a small number of huge winners and a huge number of losers. 

Hint:  None of the winners are posting at ZH.

 

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 22:52 | 2242279 SMG
SMG's picture

It's IOG. Illuminati Occupied Government.  Get it right next time!

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:09 | 2242317 CH1
CH1's picture

Yeah, but it doesn't derail the conversation as rapidly as crying "Jew."

That's their purose.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 00:13 | 2242455 JR
JR's picture

That's the way the money goes.

Speaking of bankers and of the Rothschilds, Adam Weishaupt who also was Jewish and founder of the Illuminati sect, formulated a program similar of the world order conspirators today. It called for:

1)      Abolition of all monarchies and all ordered governments.

2)      Abolition of private property and inheritances.

3)      Abolition of patriotism and nationalism.

4)      Abolition of family life and the institution of marriage, and

5)      Abolition of religion.

Karl Marx was hired to update the writings of Dr. Weishaupt, written seventy years earlier. The ideas Lenin developed were directly from the Karl Marx Communist Manifesto; and Marx “took his orders from the House of Rothschild,” according to the Illuminati Book. Gary Allan in his multimillion best seller, None Dare Call It Conspiracy, states the following about Marx's Communist Manifesto:
   ‘If you study the Marx Communist Manifesto you will find that in essence Marx said the proletarian revolution would establish the Socialist dictatorship of the proletariat. To achieve the Socialist dictatorship of the proletariat, three things would have to be accomplished. 1. The elimination of all right to private property. 2. The dissolution of the family unit: and 3. Destruction of what Marx referred to as the “opiate of the people,” 'Religion.'

Says IB: “Up until recently, two checks made out to Karl Marx by Nathan Rothschild could be seen on display at the British Museum.”

http://www.benabraham.com/html/illuminati_-_4a.html

As far as socialism is concerned, banker control of government and the elimination of private property, I’d say the international bankers are right on schedule in Greece.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 02:43 | 2242614 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Johann Adam Weishaupt may have been a crypto-Jew, but he was certainly a Jesuit ... in fact, he was made Chair of Canon Law at the University of Ingolstadt in Roman Catholic Bavaria at age 25 in 1773. From the age of 7, upon the death of his father George (a common Jewish name?), he was brought up by Jesuit tutors in the extensive library of his liberal godfather, Baron Johann Adam Ickstadt -- curator of the University of Ingolstadt, member of the Privy Council, and major proponent of the Enlightenment in Bavaria. Never let the facts get in the way of a good yarn.

Other than that, I agree with your link between Marx (born into a wealthy middle class family and married to an aristocratic Prussian baroness) and the luciferians. Marx was also ghost-written by the Jesuits ... the Jesuits had trialled and developed communism 1-200 years earlier in their "Reductions" in South America (until they were expelled and sent back to Rome by the Spanish and Portuguese governments in 1767).

Marx may have "taken his orders" from the Rothschilds, but he got most of his cash from sponging off the Engels family textile business -- and all of his "ideas" from the Jesuits.

The Jesuits are the luciferian strategists; the Sabbatean money-changers are the luciferian implementers and financiers.

They are the right and left hands of the one magician.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 09:01 | 2242899 Green Leader
Green Leader's picture

Thank you.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 11:48 | 2243057 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

*Clap* Well said all around idog.

ori

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 12:28 | 2243107 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

the only thing that I would add to your view of the top of the pyramid is how islam fits into the vatican's scheme, nwo, domination and rule: The Islamic Connection (to Rome & Catholicism):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDBRPF9uCYk

Let's not forget that happy, confident and prosperous human beings in control of their lives do not need to go to a place of worship to pray for better future.  The more subdued, desperate and impoverished population, the higher the likelihood they will turn to their religious leaders for help.....and they, no doubt, will gladly provide that help, i.e. by sodomizing young boys, or whatever... you get the picture.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 13:13 | 2243163 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

PA:  The more subdued, desperate and impoverished population, the higher the likelihood they will turn to their religious leaders for help...

Or to BOIL them alive because it is so much more appropriate than a nice clean quick Guillotine.  Plus they make that funny squishy popping noise when they are done. 

But seriously, Lucifer?  Illuminati?  We need no further explanation than plain old human greed to motivate the global theft we see today, just because some folks in Palestine thousands of years ago were superstitious and grifters have been capitalizing on it ever since does not mean any of the illuminati rubbish has any validity. 

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 13:45 | 2243223 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

you made a valid point here:

We need no further explanation than plain old human greed to motivate the global theft we see today

however; for that (theft, ponzi, deception, etc.) to happen on that scale, it has to be organized; somehow, so it really doesnt matter what label one uses, these:

But seriously, Lucifer?  Illuminati? 

or these: beetle, cow, sun, moon,...

the bottom line is, it has to be organized and planned.  And humans, greedy or not, require labels, names, references, etc.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 14:22 | 2243287 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Fortunately, your opinion counts for nought. Your psychopathic 'boil the rich' moniker and the drivel you post sees to that. It would be a consolation to your family if you were a paid shill but, alas, you are just a simpleton!

Since you have apparently never heard of the Club of Rome, the Bilderberg Group, the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations or the Council for National Policy, it would be pointless now to explain to you their common root and their common objective -- both of which go back a very long way and are prima facie evidence of a concerted conspiracy on a grand scale.

So, do us a favour and boil yourself!

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 18:15 | 2243747 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

You are so full of shit, and yet you the second most paranoid person to post at ZH have the gall to call anyone any name if just too laughable.  Take your gods and devils and shove them up your ass, you know, where you pulled them out of in the first place.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 13:35 | 2243204 JR
JR's picture

Carlyle: “The three great elements of modern civilization, Gunpowder, Printing (media), and the Protestant Religion.”

All the movements, from communism to statism to Cecil Rhodes to the establishment of Israel, have all been opposed to one of Western Civilization’s most important themes – the Protestant ethic that individuals are more important than governments, be they monarchies, British Parliaments or Roman republics. And, like the Illuminati, their opposition to religion translates to the opposition to the teachings of Jesus Christ, namely that man, not God, can control his destiny. And the Jews seize this chance for their own narrow secular expansion.

The truth is we are living under Adam Weishaupt’s legacy of world communism in almost all  parts of the world today. And the truth is Adam Weishaupt was born in 1748 of Jewish parents but grew up in the Catholic faith after his father, George Weishaupt, died in 1754 and young Adam was turned over to be raised by the Jesuits. And it’s also true that because of Weishaupt´s strong anti-clerical and anti-royalistic views, his Illuminati goals espouse the abolition of religion. Illuminati (illuminists) means “Holders of the Light.”

MEP’s Nigel Farage, a true hero of liberty, warned of the communistic, authoritarian nature of the current 27-national European Union. The EU Commission, the executive body of the EU, is reported to have no less than 11 out of 27 commissioners either current or former communists. Amid loud snickering, heckling laugher and mocking applause from the EP, Farage issues this warning in the video - An Iron Fist has come down on Europe - Nigel Farage (rough transcript of excerpt):

“Sadly, the politicians in charge became very greedy and they wanted money for themselves and power and so they resorted to lies and deceit and they staged the most spectacular bureaucratic coup d’etat that the world had ever seen. But they didn’t need to use any bullets to do it; they were much more clever, much more scheming than that. But what they did was to put in place a new treaty - it was called the Lisbon Treaty - and then they gave 27 people total unlimited power. These would be the people that made all the laws. They went about building a new state, but they ignored the people. And what they did…they recreated the very evil system that the people of Eastern Europe had lived under before. But the incredible thing was that many of the new bosses had also worked for that same evil system before.

“But, of course, the plan was flawed; and their fanciful monetary scheme collapsed. But, still, the new bosses wouldn’t listen to the people. No, they put tens of millions into poverty, they denied people a say, and in the end those people had to resort to violence to get back their nation states and their democracy. And the moral story of the story is: They had learned nothing from history. Members of the European parliament, before you give this nation power, remember that 60 years ago an iron curtain came down on Europe but, now, with this commission there is an economic iron fist and it is being felt in Greece today…”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdoMssKv38o&feature=related

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 15:09 | 2243404 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

'– the Protestant ethic that individuals are more important than governments, be they monarchies, British Parliaments or Roman republics'

Protestantism did no such thing, at least Luther didn't. Luther's fight against Rome was an attempt at establishing a private German religion. It should be noted that this ended in the Nazi party as a more or less natural extension of the 'revolt'. Now, Calvin and later Weber, reconciled industrial capitalism with protestant ethics as the mish-mash further the confusion of what is 'unto Caesar' and what is 'unto God'.

Protestantism has indeed only furthered the confusion and, in all honesty, been a driving factor in this brutalization of 'debtors'. Of course, I speak of organized "Culture Protestantism" and its role in Western society which is neither Christian nor cultured, sadly, but mere moralism.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 15:51 | 2243454 i-dog
i-dog's picture

 

"Luther's fight against Rome was an attempt at establishing a private German religion. It should be noted that this ended in the Nazi party as a more or less natural extension of the 'revolt'."

Holy fuck, Gene ... you've just blown your credibility with me!

1. Luther's fight against Rome was an attempt to reform the Catholic church's ludicrous system of indulgences. He initially had no desire to start a separate religion but was left with no choice after being persecuted by the papacy and local bishop for objecting to them.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther#Breach_with_the_papacy)

2. Protestantism had absolutely nothing to do with the Nazi party. The Nazis were guided by Jesuits and financed by Jewish bankers. Everything about the SS was Jesuit symbolism with Roman Catholic senior generals (I know this first-hand through being close to some of their families). 'Mein Kampf' was in all probability ghost-written by the Jesuits, since Hitler's literary skills consisted of little more than a collection of newspapers in his apartment.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 15:52 | 2243478 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

http://www.amazon.com/reader/0486204855?_encoding=UTF8&query=Luther#read...

Feel free to read i-dog, page 170.

'Protestantism had absolutely nothing to do with the Nazi party.'

Correct, the separation from Rome was under nationalistic intentions and culminated in the Nazi party paradoxically. There needs to be a separation from intentions and consequences in your attempt at history otherwise it ends up seeming like historicism.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 16:09 | 2243505 i-dog
i-dog's picture

a. That link only goes to page 22. Make your point.

b. My position is quite at odds with conventional "history", and based on much research behind the facade, so it can't be labelled as "historicism".

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 16:28 | 2243557 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

'Conventional' history isn't the issue, it's distinguishing between intentions and causes pertaining to historic events. The 'true' motivation for Luther's revolt isn't as simplistic as indulgences and is beside the point I made. My point is, despite motivations, a nationalist German church was established in the place of the Roman order and it degenerated into a 'compulsive collectivist movement.'

'The French Revolution and its aftermath, the emergence of American democracy, were the first social movements carrying the Christian doctrine of the individual's equality into the realm of political realism. Communism, which in its fundamental ideology resembles so much early Christianity, seems to signify another step in that direction, whereas Fascism represents the opposite principle of difference, symbolized in its doctrine of racial superiority. Such nationalistic movements are, however, not new in the struggle of European nations to free themselves from the yoke of Rome. For the future historian, the Nazi's propagation of their Teutonic pageantry might be considered the logical conclusion of Luther's protestant fight for an independant German religion.' page 170 Beyond Psychology

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 17:36 | 2243681 i-dog
i-dog's picture

LOL ... everyone has a perspective, an agenda, and a book to get published. Through my prism, the French Revolution in 1789 was fomented by the Jesuits (the Jacobins) to break the Bourbon monarchy in retribution for expelling the Jesuits from France 25 years earlier. They achieved this in 3 years and then imposed a reign of terror not unlike what Obomber is implementing even as we speak. (Similarities to the actions of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and Libya also come to mind). "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" was a good marketing ploy ... not unlike "Hope and Change".

"American democracy" was not an "aftermath" to the French Revolution, it actually began with Ben Franklin proposing the forerunner to the Articles of Confederation at the Albany Congress in 1754. The events of 1776 and the negotiation of the Constitution all took place well before the unrelated activities in France and arose due to grievances against Europe among the various protestant groups from 6 natiions in America at the time that went beyond just George II and George III of Britain.

Communism only resembles Christianity in its platitudes, not in its implementation or intent. As I mentioned elsewhere, Communism was trialled by the Jesuits in South America from 1609-1767 and they knew exactly how to "sell" it through Marx 100 years later.

All-in-all, that quoted reference should be re-named 'Beyond Imagination'.

Enough cynicism for now. Hafta run.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 04:20 | 2242768 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

1) Abolition of all monarchies and all ordered governments.

2) Abolition of private property and inheritances.

3) Abolition of patriotism and nationalism.

4) Abolition of family life and the institution of marriage, and

5) Abolition of religion.
______________________________________________________

Hopefully US citizenism was on the way because this is not how the plan is going on.

Far from it. Polar opposite.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 10:52 | 2242995 Baleful Runes 4 U
Baleful Runes 4 U's picture

Bingo, ananon    

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 10:39 | 2242976 Roadracer86
Roadracer86's picture

Very interesting; thanks for sharing.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 11:06 | 2243005 Baleful Runes 4 U
Baleful Runes 4 U's picture

'The ideas Lenin developed were directly from the Karl Marx Communist Manifesto; and Marx “took his orders from the House of Rothschild,” according to the Illuminati Book'

haha, great source, bro . Here's a bit from the aforesaid Illuminati Book (was it written by Pat Robertson?)

"A decade after the Tate-LaBianca murders, it was reported that evil propaganda messages were found in some Beatles songs. This article appeared in the San Antonio Light, Monday, February 1, 1982. The headline read: "Backward masked Satan promos found on some Rock'n Roll Records." Evil messages were not only found in the Beatles' music, but also in other rock groups, such as Led Zeppelin, Queen, Black Oak Arkansas, and the Electric Light Orchestra."

here's some more from the Illuminati Book

"We are living in the last era of the earth's history. It will end with Jesus' Second Coming. "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: etc"

So why worry? Baby Jesus will pop on back and set everything right.  Do you see the insidious effects of these illuminati fantasies? I'm sure the bankers get a good laugh out of this.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:14 | 2242334 JR
JR's picture

And how about this line from the NY Times today: "With the completion of this deal, the International Monetary Fund and Greece’s European partners will possess 77 percent of the country’s outstanding debt. From now on, foreign taxpayers will be asked to suffer the bulk of the loss the next time Greece confronts a financial crisis...."

This is the terrifying reality of where the world is headed if the growing pile of manufactured debt and usury and wealth transfer by the international bankers is not stopped!

As one commenter said: It's hard to believe that ISDA's voting members, the same banksters that sold the CDS, don't have something planned under the rug to save themselves?

The Times continued: "When the heavily indebted nation confronts a new cash crunch in the coming years — as many experts and, indeed, the markets seem to believe it will — Greece will not be able to rely on deploying sophisticated legal tricks, like collective-action clauses, to force losses on relatively easy targets like banks and hedge funds..." The easy targets so far have been the defenseless Greek people who are struggling for food and shelter tonight and on the private investers who were forced to take unbelievable cuts in this latest package. We are yet to see the substantial penalty that poor Goldman has to pay (yes, it was Goldman and its cronies inside Greece who tricked Greece and not the Greek people who tricked Goldman).

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 00:08 | 2242444 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

"With the completion of this deal, the International Monetary Fund and Greece’s European partners will possess 77 percent of the country’s outstanding debt."

 

"With the completion of this deal, the  FED will possess 77 percent of the country’s outstanding debt."

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 21:16 | 2242048 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Now get ready for Spain, Ireland, Italy and etc etc to expect the same.

 

http://jimrickards.blogspot.com/

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 22:48 | 2242234 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

can it be made simpler and still stay volcanic/seismic?

iceland or japan?

while samurai were an elite and storied caste, all icelanders were vikings.

http://historicalnovelists.tripod.com/femvikng.htm

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:36 | 2242385 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Sorry, a lot of them were Irish slaves (see Olav the Peacock's mother)

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 01:04 | 2242547 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

I may take my cash and move to Iceland...see if I can find one of their fine women to keep me warm...

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 01:08 | 2242553 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Viking women make GOOD lovers!

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 03:07 | 2242716 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

They're horny in those helmets too.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 04:41 | 2242777 SanOvaBeach
SanOvaBeach's picture

Speaking of Viking women.  A good place to park some cash is the Norweeeeejian Krone,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 05:27 | 2242796 toothpicker
toothpicker's picture

Still just paper promises. Both paper and promises can vaporize. Go physical!

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 09:39 | 2242919 Sakka
Sakka's picture

Hey Wee Weed

Suck my dick monkey!

You niggers are going to make "GOOD" target practice the second the law can't or won't protect your 85 IQ asses.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:52 | 2242418 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Is that not just the case.

 

Ha Ha Ha

 

He he he

 

The stupid fucks let one member of the EuroZone default.

 

FUCK THE EURO.

 

SCUM SCUM SCUM

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 05:17 | 2242793 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

yep, we just polishing brass on the titanic at this point

 

cheers sisters and brothers, thought we'd never wake up from this nightmare

 

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 22:32 | 2242227 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

Thanks for the link - but it does raise a few questions in my mind.  From the above link:

"The net cash payout on CDS when a credit event occurs is the face amount of the CDS contract less the recovery value of the underlying obligations* as determined at a CDS auction."

and:

"The EMEA Determinations Committee will ultimately decide which of the obligations are deliverable* under the Credit Derivatives Definitions for purposes of the Greek CDS settlement auction"

OK, so they are going to conduct an auction of GGB's to determine "market price" (price discovery).  Are they auctioning off the actual bonds that they covered under their CDS obligation (underlying obligations* - deliverables*)?  If you must surrender the underlying obligation (ensured bond) - like when you sign the title over to your car after an insurance adjuster determines that it is not economically viable to repair (totaled) - how will those carrying naked CDS coverage claim their payouts?

And also, this:

"Furthermore, statistics indicate that, on average, 70% of derivatives exposure is collateralized and the level of CDS collateralization is likely to be even higher as over 90% of CDS transactions (by numbers of trades) are collateralized."

So, statistically speaking, most CDS are two-deep in counterparty risk already?  Is this supposed to make us feel better by implying that the risk is spread out over a large number of institutions, so the risk of not being able to pay out on the CDS is minimized?  The CDO's used to "spread the risk" on subprime mortgages didn't quite seem to work out so well, at least to me.  How many of these CDS are cross-collateralized, with each counterparty also having exposure to the same GGB's?

 

My head hurts just thinking about how many layers will have to be peeled back before any "insurance" payouts can be made.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:33 | 2242377 oogs66
oogs66's picture

It is simpler than that - but my head is spinning too much to explain right now

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 08:14 | 2242872 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

The CDO's worked just fine ... Sub-prime mortgages stopped paying, so CDO's stopped paying. Risk spread. Job done.

ISDA had to swallow and call it a default, because they make far more money selling and spreading the manure than they lose insuring the crop.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 21:06 | 2242019 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

greece defaulted long time ago - perceptions are just merely being managed more at obfuscated and day of actual reckoning prolonged - the patient has died long time ago; zombie corpse just needs to be buried sooner rather than later before plague contagion spreads...

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 04:59 | 2242783 Incubus
Incubus's picture

You don't bury zombies, man.   You shoot 'em in the head, or burn 'em.  Or decapitate 'em.  Bury 'em and they'll just come right back.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 14:16 | 2243295 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

agreed. EU and banksters been burying the Helenic zombie while knowing full well they always needed to just blast it out of it's misery! So let's see how much longer this undead horror-show plays out for.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 21:11 | 2242036 Future Tense
Future Tense's picture

Yes, Abruptly, the CDS will pay off.  Here is the explanation of why it was triggered:

http://www.ftense.com/2012/02/greece-bailout-do-not-trigger-bomb.html

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 21:50 | 2242120 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

That was a good read, thank you.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:46 | 2242399 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Yes, If there was only a good ending.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 01:12 | 2242566 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

There is always a good ending...the shit hits the fan, we purge the criminals, we hit the reset button and start over with a clean slate and some real wisdom gained from experience.....life will get better without the crooks, and we'll feel better after they they have met real justice.  I would love to have Blankfein tell his jury that while he was packaging shit and selling it to unsuspecting morons that he was personally betting against them, knowing the outcome that he was making a market and there was absolutely no conflict of interest with his firm and their clients. I only hope his neck doesn't snap when they kick the chair out of underneath him...same for Pandit, Dimon, Lewis, Mozillo and hundreds of others...I hope they go painfully.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 01:42 | 2242616 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Living up to your screen name!

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 02:54 | 2242701 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Go on, let it out.   Don't hold it in.  We're listening.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 11:03 | 2243007 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

You are a good writer, thanks for this!

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:22 | 2242351 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

And I don't believe for one moment that the CDS's only come to 3.2 billion dollars.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:40 | 2242392 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Yes, and they have also taken fire insurance out on your house.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 01:40 | 2242615 Kiwi Pete
Kiwi Pete's picture

Yeah, if it was all about a measley $3.2bil what was all the fuss about? Are they saying that only $3.2 bil out of the $100bil had CDS insurance? Seems hard to believe.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 08:29 | 2242880 smb12321
smb12321's picture

It seems I've read on ZH hundreds of times that a CDS event would spiral into a trillion dollar payoff.  So what happened?  Was it becaused the vast majority threw in the towel and agreed to the "haircut"? As one financial "Spokesman" said yesterday (and it makes sense), Portugal is next since the market seems able to concentrate on only one crisis at a time.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 01:10 | 2244300 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Hey,

How come when I click my TDAmeritrade button for "Financial Strength" on any of the major banks, it says "Data not Available" ??LOL

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 20:36 | 2241924 ACP
ACP's picture

Go have a drink, Tyler. The bullshit won't end until the entire world erupts in total chaos.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 20:39 | 2241929 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Tell ya what.  I'm gonna have a drink.  Anyone want to join me?  I'll be havin a Miller Lite and a shot of Jameson's.  Cheers.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 20:44 | 2241936 AbruptlyKawaii
AbruptlyKawaii's picture

4th glass of merlot hashish is also good on top of flower

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 21:55 | 2242130 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

 

I'm not even sure what all that is, but it sounds thought-provoking.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 22:42 | 2242255 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

You know what they say -- a glass of merlot hashish a day...uh, I can't remember the rest.  ;-)

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:41 | 2242393 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

That is from the hashish. Don't forget to breathe.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 16:16 | 2243533 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

Bong water .. bubbling and fermenting since opening day with a generous heady  dash of Asthmador - now that's a party drink!

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:14 | 2242333 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

More like thoutht de-voking, but in interesting times, light up..

 

+escape y'all.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 00:22 | 2242473 bluebare
bluebare's picture

In memorium, ouzo.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 20:45 | 2241953 Squid Vicious
Squid Vicious's picture

johnny red here, not my favorite but just got a 1.75 for $30

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 22:07 | 2242167 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

It's sunny in Portland and I spent most of the day outside.  I think I'll have a cold Full Sail amber and call it a night.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:08 | 2242315 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Portland? +10 for choosing one of the few sane places in Amerika to live MLH.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:36 | 2242383 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Just beware the giant subduction zone off the coast....

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:48 | 2242407 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Full Sail is good stuff.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 00:16 | 2242461 Jason_1sandal
Jason_1sandal's picture

Ahhhh Portland....ever go to Dutch Brother's coffee ?

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 13:56 | 2243258 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

75 in Medford two days in a row, the world MUST be ending.  Re the Cascadia Fault... I am glad we have no nuke plants on the beach.  Now back to Greece.  So this is what collapse looks like, a media blitz of can kicking propaganda that claims default was narrowly avoided.  And when people starve on American streets I am sure hte moguls at the MSM will headline the nightly news with "OBESITY NARROWLY AVOIDED." 

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 22:11 | 2242173 Fascist Dictator
Fascist Dictator's picture

JW Blue for me....yummmmmmm

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 03:03 | 2242711 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Ice cold raspberry vodka with absinthe for me...

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 07:57 | 2242867 Rakshas
Rakshas's picture

Do you burn the sugar?? MMMM good way to forget this $hit for a few hours.... assuming of course U R buying the good stuff....

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:17 | 2242342 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

Hey Squid, at turdy, you should be stacking that Red.  Been over 33 for years 'round here.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 20:47 | 2241959 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

I'll have another Jameson, definitely.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 20:50 | 2241974 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

I should never have used an apostrophe.  Screw it, the "s" is gonna be plural anyway.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 21:48 | 2242117 Doña K
Doña K's picture

Drinking lite beer is like drinking espresso with an extra shot of decaf.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:10 | 2242319 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

More like drinking the filled urinalysis cup instead

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 09:10 | 2242904 spankfish
spankfish's picture

Got Tucher?

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 21:20 | 2242052 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Cheers.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:30 | 2242372 prains
prains's picture

shiraz on me it's about time, next stop, start fixing this mess.....2020

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 20:50 | 2241973 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Surely you can do better than Miller Lite. I'll take an Arrogant Bastard on tap.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 21:22 | 2242054 Gunga
Gunga's picture

Buncha damn pinky raisers. I'm drinkin' PBR longnecks and damn proud of it.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 21:51 | 2242123 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

Wife brought home Hercules double IPA tonight (10% ABV) . I love that woman

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 21:59 | 2242141 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Ever tried Dead Guy Ale?

Nectar of the gods my friend, nectar of the gods...

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 22:24 | 2242195 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

Dead Guy is very good...but, I live outside Asheville, NC. We have 70,000 people and ELEVEN micro-breweries...highest per capita of breweries  in the USA...(sorry Portland, OR)..."very good" is baseline here. 

Wedge brewery makes a killer IPA here...and they show movies on the side of a truck in the summer.

 

 

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 22:24 | 2242209 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Damn I'm jealous.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 23:32 | 2242374 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Don't be.  He's in NC.  If you want really good american micro beer, you need to be in WI.  The brats are good too.  Brewed by old Germans that kept brewing during prohibition in the back woods.  KY isn't the only place illegal alcohol was produced.

FWIW, I don't live there.  But I definitely appreciate their beer and brats during an infrequent visit.

Fri, 03/09/2012 - 22:37 | 2242238 Thadeous
Thadeous's picture

Only negative is that you have to be in the south.

 

Oh and Pistol purchase permit FTL!

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 07:36 | 2242847 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Yuck it up, Yankee pillow biters.

If this place destabilizes and comes apart, our survival rate will triple yours at least. Asheville is a nice place but in the last decade has been really screwed up by a wave of northern flotsam washing up. For all the down the nose commentary northerners are prone to they have a nasty habit of not staying in their own areas, far too many move to the South and bringing their socio-political plague viruses with them.

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