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Greeks Set To Scream Bloody Murder As Pension Fund Threatens To Recoup €8 Billion In "Illegally" Paid Out Proceeds
Just in case Greece needed one more reason to piss off the angry mob, just waiting to resume its Syntagma square festival, Ekathimerini reports that very soon Greeks will discover that not only are their pension funds about 50% underfunded funded courtesy of the first of many European 'bailouts', but that they will actually have to repay pension proceeds back. Granted, pensions paid out under illegal pretenses, but still, this is money that will have to make its way out of insolvent Greek families that, just like in America, never felt an urge to save, but merely to spend, spend, spend, with hopes of endless crony communism in perpetuity. "Up to eight billion euros have been paid in bogus pensions in the past decade, director of the Social Security Foundation (IKA), Rovertos Spyropoulos said on Monday. Under immense pressure to cut spending and replenish empty state coffers, the Greek government has found out that millions of euros have been paid to deceased claimants. The money is often claimed by fraudulent relatives or, in some cases, it remains idle in banks." What happens when all the other socialist countries in Europe discover the same has been happening there repeatedly and to far greater extents?
“We are trying to cut back on waste,” Spyropoulos told Skai television on Monday adding that the cutback has already saved the foundation over 700 million euros.
The IKA chief said between seven and eight billion euros have been paid to bogus pensions in the last ten years.
“We will reclaim all that money up to the last euro,” he said.
And that, as they say, is a word out of place.
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Better yet just start the actual murder.
That kind of shinnagans makes them almost American!
"...the Greek government has found out that millions of euros have been paid to deceased claimants."
Greece sounds like one, big Chicago.
It is very simple. It is just a human nature:
i'm not big on religion, but it did used to keep a % of folk more honest. Right now, if you aren't stealing in some shape or form, you can't gain in this quicksand economic and soulless climate
rampant theft and corruption by those at the top... does it really surprise anyone that the little people will do the same.
It is very simple. It is just a human nature:
If there is an opportunity to steal, people will steal
Furthermore, if there is an opportunity to steal without a retribution, there will be a stampede to steal
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Clearly, it is not. Opportunistic behaviour cant explain the current state of affairs.
US citizenism does, theft/transfer of wealth is central to it, a whole system has been built around transfer of wealth/theft.
It does select human beings on their capacity to rob others blind. It is no random event the apter in theft sits at the top.
Problem is that US citizens can not self indict. So they deny that theft is central to their system. They find all kinds of rationalization to explain their theft.
As told numerous times, US citizens have made their way to the top through theft. Theft was glorified, thieves were lionized. But the backlash is that as they have been extremely successful, they are no longer in position to thieve as they used to as they seized nearly everything through theft and they are in position to be robbed from.
It is the current situation. It has little to do with human nature.
It is the result of US citizenim.
That's why Onassis fitted in so well? To Jacqueline at least.
They can't get these people to pay taxes, what makes them think anything will be "repaid". I agree with Genemarchbanks. Get the party started already.
And from dead people no less. Makes sense I guess, have the zombies re-pay the zombie banks.
They can't get these people to pay taxes, what makes them think anything will be "repaid".
LOL. Not happening. Not in a million years. Who'll collect said funds? Who will enforce the collection? It's all fine and well for the Greek government to hire a few hundred foreign goons to beat up the people when the Greek police refuse, but this collection will have to be made by Greeks and therefore it will never take place.
Gee who couldnt have seen that coming from a mile away? We've solved our debt problem, good people of Greece...yes you will REPAY! ALL your pensions are belongs to us now!
I can only conclude they are begging the people to storm their parliaments and kill them?
The Greek gubmint is certainly trying everything they can to incite the Greek people (after offering all those "goodies" in the first place). One has to wonder why!?!
same reason that riots are probbly part of the plan in the US. a good war, mass riots... anything to cover the tracks and provide for the coming changes that are planned.
"with hopes of endless crony communism"
Complete bullshit - it's Capitalism that needs endless consumerism in order to survive.
I like the way a crisis of capitalism is now being turned into a crisis of a system we haven't seen for 20 years or so.
Desperate people do desperate things eh?
"when all the other socialist countries in Europe"
Which ones are they then? Do you even know what Socialism is? - or are you just using the word as a substitute for 'bad'?
Face the facts - it's capitalism that's failed here - and you know it.
LOL..
Hardly working 4 hours a day, retirement at age 50, months of paid holiday each year. Call it what you want, its failed.
Have you been reading the MSM again?
There are no Greeks working 4 hour days - except Greek bankers who live off unearned income (ursuary) as they do in most countries - it is a propoganda lie in order to make everyone feel a bit better about it when the tanks roll into Athens.
Marx said Capitlaism would end in fascism - but strangely nobody took any notice - and now they are seeing the fruits of their system ripen.
The 'most successful' in Capitalism will always end up as too big to fail - I don't know what's wrong with people's brain capacity if they cannot work that simple logical conclusion out.
Yes, when something is clean (capitalism), it can get dirty (slide into fascism). The correct solution is to continue cleaning, rather than to simply accept living in filth (institutionalize fascism/socialism), as you seem to desire.
I agree Tom. Crash the system and let's find out exactly what the value of everyone's labor really is. The machine shop that repairs a lot of our equipment is now accepting silver as payment. I know you are a silver bug, thought you might like that. The owner and I are friends and he hopes to only accept PMs as payment in the near future. He is getting the stink eye from local "authorities" in the mayor's office.
In my humble opinion, these are the conflicts that will ignite a revolution. Need to wait and see.
Crash the system and let's find out exactly what the value of everyone's labor really is.
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Awesome. The value of what in this US driven world? Labour?
But, but, but...
Made me laugh. Cheap propaganda as US propaganda is.
The value of property. Lets crash the system and find out the value of everyone's property.
In this US driven world, it is how it is.
US world order.
If you'll send me your address, I'll send you a rattle, pacifier, and some diapers. If you're nice about it, I might even send you a copy of good night moon and some NyQuil.
More consumption. Keep it for yourself. As a US citizen, you will likely need that more than I will.
Stick in your US citizen world where the cause can not be US citizens and the false paradigm they have forced on the world.
Rattle, pacifier, US citizens have no teeth so they might need to get some to chunk at last at reality and end their world of fantaisies.
Diapers? But US citizen nature is eternal, they are like an incontinent, they cant help themselves.
Better keep that consumption for you. See this as a favour done to you in a hopeless and vain attempt to thwart your eternal US citizen nature.
Fascism == National Socialism
This is the simple logical conclusion.
Um, writingsonthewall, please dont try to tell me about Greece, most of my family lives there, I go there frequently...shoosh.
Statistics say Greeks work 42hours/week and retire at 65...
Well, i guess if one has a high income and a "nice" job, one could actually work 4 hours a day, and retire at 50....
...the problem is just: That applies to all non-3rd world nations.
As always, if one WANTS to see things a certain way, one will always find examples to back them with, if only one is selective enough, as opposed to looking at the big picture.
Exactly. The same trustworthy statistics used to get Greece into the EU.
Actually, the current situation has neither to do with capitalism nor communism..... but it looks spectacular writing those fancy terms into articles.
Is this pension fund private?
Then it has everything to do with Capitalism.
Unless you're suggesting none of the private sector employees running this pension fund EVER got paid.
I think my FOV is a bit wider than the pension mismanagement described in the article.
And as for pensions in general - pensions shouldn't even need to be "managed" by anyone else except of oneself. There simply is no need for this, except of to "use one's own money for something else than one's own pension".
THATS right no one should be managing pensions except the pensioner himself.
Spot on!!!
So Bernie Maddoff should go free . Those people were mananging their retirements .
Thank you!
The stratagy works very well for TPTB. Throw a few 'isms' into an article and watch the rable start finger pointing.
And, to think, after reading that tripe and gouging my eyes out, I'm beginning to miss MillionDollarBonus's satire.
As I'm sure you're well aware, there wouldn't be unfunded government pensions and the inevitable fraudulent government payouts under Capitalism. Capitalism requires individual liberty. You're not free if you're forced to pay someone else's pension.
You can scream for those unearned benefits as long and loudly as you want but your desired system requires that you take it by force from those who produce.
You're losing. You'll lose.
"You're not free if you're forced to pay someone else's pension. "
So retirement in poverty - or pay into private pension on the CHANCE you might not end in poverty is a 'free choice' is it?
When you all benefit from future and past pensioners then your pension should represent that.
Currently private pensions only reflect your immediate capital collection in your lifetime - it does not consider the sacrifices made by previous (and future) generations.
you can only do that through collective pensions - i.e. Government pensions.
See below..... there is no logical connection at all, between protecting "unlucky" old people, and a corp/gov managed pension fund.
Nothing is stopping everyone saving for himself, and then when retiring deciding if that person should receive additional income from taxes.
P.S.: Financially, this is what happens right now anyways - those who now pay into the fund, pay for those who are now receiving their pensions. The differences to how it is handled now are however:
1. No one can take away what you "paid in". So, the amount you saved is safe.
2. Because of this, you have control and predictability over what your pension will look like at minimum. You KNOW the lower bound of what you'll get.
3. Any changes to demographics, have immediate consequences, and thus must be addressed immediatelly - instead of all the current "lagged" effects. Why does that matter? Because humans and especially governments tend to only react in time, to immediate issues.
4. The moral hazard of receiving pensions goes away, if you "paid in" enough to ensure what you want out.
"1. No one can take away what you "paid in". So, the amount you saved is safe."
Bullshit, especially when you cash out and the paper they give you buys NOTHING. Wake up fucknut, if paper is backed by nothing, it is worth nothing.
Did you miss the point where i was talking about that one manages one's own pension ONESELF? Did you miss where i intentionally all across the post put "paid in" in quotes, because one doesn't actually "pay" anything "in", in my proposal?
Yes? Kay, then i guess your entire angry post is a mistake.
Or is it still not clear what i'm argueing?
Okay, all i was saying was: Even if everyone manages his pension himself (i.e. gold), that doesn't exclude that "unlucky" old people with low savings, may get some extra income from taxes. So, that everyone manages his pension himself, is not mutually exclusive with a "social aspect" at all - the only difference is that if you manage your savings yourself, you control them.
"sacrifice" and the "collective" . . .
chants that act as a soothing balm to the looter's soul.
I wish retards like WritingsOnTheWall had actually lived in the Soviet Union/East Germany/North Korea/Cuba to see what a glorious life is/was led in those Socialist Utopias. The brilliance of Marx was his ability to distill the problems with capitalism. The failure of Marx was his inability to come up with a viable alternative.
+10000
You put better than I ever could.
More importantly, if all one wanted were to guarantee some kind of minimum income for retirement, this still does not require a corp or gov managed pension fund. So, regardless of if one wants a "social" aspect to retirement or not, the current system is completely unnecessary, and prone to abuse.
The government bailouts of banks and financial institutions aren't exactly Capitalism, though.
The weird financial "innovations" that allowed the financial institutions to create (and temporarily hide) stupendous levels of debt aren't a necessary component of Capitalism either.
Everyone is blaming this "ism" or that "ism" but what we have here is criminality and corruption - these can happen in a Socialist/Communist/Capitalist system. The elite have engaged in criminal fraud. They have defrauded ordinary people in order to enrich themselves. The politicians have been bought or have caved in out of fear.
This is kind of crap is not peculiar to Capitalism. It is corruption and fraud. Blaming a particular ideology is diverting attention from the real issue, I think.
Complete bullshit - it's Capitalism that needs endless consumerism in order to survive.
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Comical.
By now, people should have gotten it.
You need to restore a fabled past. That is the solution.
US citizens can not tell when they had capitalism but they know it was good. Now to explain their own system failures, US citizens are used to introducing alien features to explain the failures.
Cant remember who sang that song but US citizens could made it their national anthem, truer to themselves than the current one: song is "it wasnt me"
The sheer naked reality is that the present is the result of US citizenism, nothing alien in it.
US citizens cant self indict, they cant feature themselves as the root of the issue.
They take anything that discharge them from their responsibility and the negative consequences.
Here: that is communism. Communism kicked the bucket and that is fine.
US citizens though missed those days when they could blame communism with some credibility.
It is all part of the restore a fabled past operation. Claiming communism sent them back to the glorious days of their fabled past.
No kidding, Gene.
Someone one or some group at some point is going to literally decide they have nothing left to lose and do something far more drastic than clash with police in riot gear or strike or occupy government buildings.
It's one thing to clawback with monetization; it's another to clawback with confiscation.
This is a proper use of government. If you take things that don't belong to you, you deserve what you get.
all i can say is that it's a good thing achilles and ajax aren't around as they would certainly be "cutting back on waste."
Don't believe a single word from Greek government officials, they do a lot of talking about spending, but no work at all! The 8 billions to bogus pensions is a communication bubble! Please proceed to next article.
I agree and suspect that all this tough talk on cracking down on pension abuse is meant for the troika's benefit so Greece can get that next heroin fix (bailout tranche) from its pusher.
Of course that money is not coming back. It is spent, gone. What a travesty this country has become. Servitude for decades is what I see.
Greeks like to lead the world. In this case, they will show all of us how to be good little debt slaves.
(hopefully) coming soon to a state near you:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-27/new-york-rail-workers-sought-1-...
This shit is endemic to union labor. Find a union, you'll find assholes milking the system 'tragedy of the commons' style.
Oops... my bad, apparently NOT coming soon to a state near you:
WTF?! How can it be unclear???
Also, why are they only going after 11 people, when "HUNDREDS" receive the wrong benefits? This shit is unbelievable. Why the fuck aren't they going after the hundreds that scammed the system?
I see no issue. Why shouldn't zombie banks have zombie customers? And what could be better for halloween?
Zombie banks with zombie customers, its only fitting.
So, they can't muster the organizational skills to collect taxes but they're going to wring spent money out of an already bleeding populous?
Socialism/Obamaism/Communism/Universal Unitarianism es muerte:)
Gotsta love the 'isms'!
Lions and tigers and bears, OH MY!
For those of you who still can, I suggest a hard look at your IRA or 401(k) before the Marxist-in-Chief decides that these funds should be the buyer of last resort for USTs.
If you're a bank, fraud is OK.
Citizens, not so much.
did someone say greek pension funds? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ............
Dead people are one of the main voting blocks for socialized and Democrats. Of course you have to pay them their entitlements (bribes), just like every other liberal constituency.
Stupid Republicans. You thought the tipping point was when 51% of the LIVING were getting government bribes paid for by stealing from the top 49%!!!! RESPECT YOUR ANCESTORS. The streets in Heaven are paved in gold, and that shot is expensive.
Yes, get those claw backs from grandma...we need it to support the banks!
Of course, the Greeks are used to taking it up the ass so this is probably a non-issue.
Think of it like this;
Dad works in a bank and when he dies he leaves the kids and wife 1 million euros. There is no inheritance tax because that would be unfair to tax money earned twice.
Dad works digging dirt and leaves a mortgage and 20 euros in the bank.
Mom says Im going to keep collecting his pension. Because to take away that pension would be taxing the labor of my husband twice if not stealing it.
Who is stealing here? The bankers Widow for not paying an inheritance tax?
The laborers Widow for not reporting his death and collecting a full pension?
The answer is none of the above. It's the govt for taxing the laborer and then defrauding the laborers Widow by devaluing his earned pension just because he is dead.
Just something to think about.
I often thought pensions in the situations for a couple that the couple inherited the other's pension if they dropped dead. At least here in Canada I know of many of my older relatives that are doing the exact same thing.
I suppose it makes sense on paper.
This just seems like pure indian giving though. Man it's going to be an interesting week.
I don't know one way or another but if labor has value then it should be something that can be willed to someone else in the form of stored value like cash can.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the situation. On one hand you have those who because of circumstance. Can transfer their stored labor via cash and those who cannot in the form of a pension.
Just something to think about before a knee jerk pre
programmed reaction of accusing the relatives of theft.
Either way this isn't going to end well. Fix it and it looks like the government and bond holders are attacking grandma.
Don't and the idea of even attempting to regulate anything is ridiculious.
It's really come down to binary now hasn't it? Again it's going to be a very interesting week. Be fun to see what insane scheme is shoveled at the Greek public.
Personally I think it's to get other broke assed government to think about the real possibility that if they touch that empty bucket of promises of the EFSF is promoting, they in turn are going to have to walk down the Indian giving trail.
Most pensions are not taxed going in.
Workin, workin, workin theeee ssssyssssssstem. Sumpin fir nuthin. Doom de doom doom dooooom.
"Sumpin fir nuthin."
Only 2 ways to make money...work for it or steal it.
If the shoe fits wear it. If it pinches, it fits too close.
The US needs to look in this big Greek mirror.
"Syntagma square festival" -- yeah, it's all fun and games with the undercover cops, I mean hoodies, throwing pieces of pavement and stores and the cops curiously not arresting them but throwing tear gas at the protesters and beating them over the head with their clubs.
People in Greece would not get mad about the government's legal actions -- like recouping money obtained by fraud. Of course the government is going to mention this because people like you will take this as evidence that every Greek butcher, baker, and souvlaki maker was "in" on the government's fraud regarding the deficit, even though Eurostat and the banks were shocked, shocked by it. They don't mention the billions owed by the very rich who as yet remain untouched. Because if they anger the rich, the bought politicians will finally revolt.
Btw, it's not real socialism or communism when cuts and taxes are disproportionately levied on the poor and middle class.
“We will reclaim all that money up to the last euro,” he said.
Riiiiiiiiiiiight. I hope you got German troops with you to enforce that.
Sounds like a definite threat of extreme violent force to me.
It's a buzzword. There are no founds in this "found". It's pension program based on unsigned solidarity contract between generations.
Contract was unsigned because future generation was probably to lazy and ignorant to appear on signing session.
Families having children, which represent them, were also not asked for agreement. If they were, children would count as human capital committed into system giving hard working mothers (and fathers) claims to receive pension for their work and commitment in rising pension-slaves.
Priceless.... I wonder how much Greece was adding to their GDP with those dead accounts? Might have been their biggest industry, by the time this is cleaned up....
Italy doing the same? NAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
What happens when other European nations find the same?
Why, problem solved, of course!
At least for the current standard half-life. Thats what, two or three hours lately?
Those people who never saved or paid for a pension are so happy to see those who have get ripped off . Misery loves company.
If Europe could magically somehow rid itself of every immigrant who has arrived in the last 20 years, plus their families, the EU financial crisis would be practically alleviated because hundreds of billions in unfunded liabilities would disappear, and current government revenues could be directed to growth rather than social programs. Just too many unproductive people laying around European cities having children who will be even less productive. Sounds harsh, right? OK - say it isn't true.
Oh, and Europe might also consider sending along all youth with body piercings, spiky purple hair, and an attitude. ( I know, I know, I'm just a silly old fart.)
Holy cow. That is a nice handle there.
Comment is true to US citizenism.
Production is consumption. Current crisis is one of unsustainable level of consumption. Small consumers are a smaller problem than big consumers in a overconsumption problem.
But what? Pie in the sky scenario. To the Stars and beyond. Nasa program was a big fiasco. Stuck on Earth. Earth finite. Redirecting money from low consumers to high consumers, US citizenish idea.
So nice handle, AmericanSpirit. Very true.
Always someone else the culprit when a US citizen is the guilty one.
US world order.
Also known as the list of most likely candidates to be put on railcars this time around.
Deleted.
@writingson the wall
Leo, is that you?