Greeks Set To Scream Bloody Murder As Pension Fund Threatens To Recoup €8 Billion In "Illegally" Paid Out Proceeds

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Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:07 | 1828085 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Better yet just start the actual murder.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:13 | 1828097 BandGap
BandGap's picture

That kind of shinnagans makes them almost American!

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:42 | 1828177 Don Birnam
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"...the Greek government has found out that millions of euros have been paid to deceased claimants."

Greece sounds like one, big Chicago.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 10:08 | 1828236 caconhma
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It is very simple. It is just a human nature:

  • If there is an opportunity to steal, people will steal
  • Furthermore, if there is an opportunity to steal without a retribution, there will be a stampede to steal
Mon, 10/31/2011 - 10:29 | 1828323 dark pools of soros
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i'm not big on religion, but it did used to keep a % of folk more honest.  Right now, if you aren't stealing in some shape or form, you can't gain in this quicksand economic and soulless climate

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 11:29 | 1828614 john39
john39's picture

rampant theft and corruption by those at the top...   does it really surprise anyone that the little people will do the same. 

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 14:01 | 1829082 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

It is very simple. It is just a human nature:

If there is an opportunity to steal, people will steal
Furthermore, if there is an opportunity to steal without a retribution, there will be a stampede to steal

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Clearly, it is not. Opportunistic behaviour cant explain the current state of affairs.

US citizenism does, theft/transfer of wealth is central to it, a whole system has been built around transfer of wealth/theft.

It does select human beings on their capacity to rob others blind. It is no random event the apter in theft sits at the top.

Problem is that US citizens can not self indict. So they deny that theft is central to their system. They find all kinds of rationalization to explain their theft.

As told numerous times, US citizens have made their way to the top through theft. Theft was glorified, thieves were lionized. But the backlash is that as they have been extremely successful, they are no longer in position to thieve as they used to as they seized nearly everything through theft and they are in position to be robbed from.

It is the current situation. It has little to do with human nature.

It is the result of US citizenim.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:47 | 1828187 philipat
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That's why Onassis fitted in so well? To Jacqueline at least.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:31 | 1828099 LawsofPhysics
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They can't get these people to pay taxes, what makes them think anything will be "repaid".  I agree with Genemarchbanks.  Get the party started already.

 

And from dead people no less.  Makes sense I guess, have the zombies re-pay the zombie banks.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:43 | 1828178 Bicycle Repairman
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They can't get these people to pay taxes, what makes them think anything will be "repaid".

LOLNot happening.  Not in a million years.  Who'll collect said funds?  Who will enforce the collection?  It's all fine and well for the Greek government to hire a few hundred foreign goons to beat up the people when the Greek police refuse, but this collection will have to be made by Greeks and therefore it will never take place.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:15 | 1828100 SheepDog-One
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Gee who couldnt have seen that coming from a mile away? We've solved our debt problem, good people of Greece...yes you will REPAY! ALL your pensions are belongs to us now!

I can only conclude they are begging the people to storm their parliaments and kill them?

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 10:05 | 1828227 i-dog
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The Greek gubmint is certainly trying everything they can to incite the Greek people (after offering all those "goodies" in the first place). One has to wonder why!?!

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 11:28 | 1828608 john39
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same reason that riots are probbly part of the plan in the US.   a good war, mass riots... anything to cover the tracks and provide for the coming changes that are planned.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:14 | 1828101 writingsonthewall
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"with hopes of endless crony communism"

 

Complete bullshit - it's Capitalism that needs endless consumerism in order to survive.

 

I like the way a crisis of capitalism is now being turned into a crisis of a system we haven't seen for 20 years or so.

 

Desperate people do desperate things eh?

 

"when all the other socialist countries in Europe"

 

Which ones are they then? Do you even know what Socialism is? - or are you just using the word as a substitute for 'bad'?

 

Face the facts - it's capitalism that's failed here - and you know it.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:16 | 1828108 dwdollar
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LOL..

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:17 | 1828113 SheepDog-One
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Hardly working 4 hours a day, retirement at age 50, months of paid holiday each year. Call it what you want, its failed.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:22 | 1828131 writingsonthewall
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Have you been reading the MSM again?

 

There are no Greeks working 4 hour days - except Greek bankers who live off unearned income (ursuary) as they do in most countries - it is a propoganda lie in order to make everyone feel a bit better about it when the tanks roll into Athens.

Marx said Capitlaism would end in fascism - but strangely nobody took any notice - and now they are seeing the fruits of their system ripen.

The 'most successful' in Capitalism will always end up as too big to fail - I don't know what's wrong with people's brain capacity if they cannot work that simple logical conclusion out.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:36 | 1828167 tmosley
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Yes, when something is clean (capitalism), it can get dirty (slide into fascism).  The correct solution is to continue cleaning, rather than to simply accept living in filth (institutionalize fascism/socialism), as you seem to desire.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:48 | 1828191 LawsofPhysics
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I agree Tom.  Crash the system and let's find out exactly what the value of everyone's labor really is.  The machine shop that repairs a lot of our equipment is now accepting silver as payment.  I know you are a silver bug, thought you might like that.  The owner and I are friends and he hopes to only accept PMs as payment in the near future.  He is getting the stink eye from local "authorities" in the mayor's office.

In my humble opinion, these are the conflicts that will ignite a revolution.  Need to wait and see.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 10:55 | 1828473 AnAnonymous
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Crash the system and let's find out exactly what the value of everyone's labor really is.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Awesome. The value of what in this US driven world? Labour?

But, but, but...

Made me laugh. Cheap propaganda as US propaganda is.

The value of property. Lets crash the system and find out the value of everyone's property.

In this US driven world, it is how it is.

US world order.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 11:27 | 1828605 MachoMan
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If you'll send me your address, I'll send you a rattle, pacifier, and some diapers.  If you're nice about it, I might even send you a copy of good night moon and some NyQuil.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 12:45 | 1828839 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

More consumption. Keep it for yourself. As a US citizen, you will likely need that more than I will.

Stick in your US citizen world where the cause can not be US citizens and the false paradigm they have forced on the world.

Rattle, pacifier, US citizens have no teeth so they might need to get some to chunk at last at reality and end their world of fantaisies.

Diapers? But US citizen nature is eternal, they are like an incontinent, they cant help themselves.

Better keep that consumption for you. See this as a favour done to you in a hopeless and vain attempt to thwart your eternal US citizen nature.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:38 | 1828171 Pure Evil
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Fascism == National Socialism

 

This is the simple logical conclusion.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:39 | 1828172 SheepDog-One
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Um, writingsonthewall, please dont try to tell me about Greece, most of my family lives there, I go there frequently...shoosh.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 10:09 | 1828235 Stylianos Kyriacou
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Statistics say Greeks work 42hours/week and retire at 65...

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 12:30 | 1828804 Rynak
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Well, i guess if one has a high income and a "nice" job, one could actually work 4 hours a day, and retire at 50....

...the problem is just: That applies to all non-3rd world nations.

As always, if one WANTS to see things a certain way, one will always find examples to back them with, if only one is selective enough, as opposed to looking at the big picture.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 12:39 | 1828821 Variance Doc
Variance Doc's picture

Exactly.  The same trustworthy statistics used to get Greece into the EU. 

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:22 | 1828132 Rynak
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Actually, the current situation has neither to do with capitalism nor communism..... but it looks spectacular writing those fancy terms into articles.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:26 | 1828145 writingsonthewall
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Is this pension fund private?

 

Then it has everything to do with Capitalism.

 

Unless you're suggesting none of the private sector employees running this pension fund EVER got paid.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:32 | 1828152 Rynak
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I think my FOV is a bit wider than the pension mismanagement described in the article.

And as for pensions in general - pensions shouldn't even need to be "managed" by anyone else except of oneself. There simply is no need for this, except of to "use one's own money for something else than one's own pension".

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:37 | 1828168 SheepDog-One
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THATS right no one should be managing pensions except the pensioner himself.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 10:10 | 1828242 Stylianos Kyriacou
Stylianos Kyriacou's picture

Spot on!!!

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 10:19 | 1828266 riley martini
riley martini's picture

 So Bernie Maddoff should go free . Those people were mananging their retirements .

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 10:39 | 1828381 toady
toady's picture

Thank you!

The stratagy works very well for TPTB. Throw a few 'isms' into an article and watch the rable start finger pointing.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:25 | 1828142 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

And, to think, after reading that tripe and gouging my eyes out, I'm beginning to miss MillionDollarBonus's satire.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:27 | 1828148 Melin
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As I'm sure you're well aware, there wouldn't be unfunded government pensions and the inevitable fraudulent government payouts under Capitalism. Capitalism requires individual liberty.  You're not free if you're forced to pay someone else's pension. 

You can scream for those unearned benefits as long and loudly as you want but your desired system requires that you take it by force from those who produce. 

You're losing. You'll lose.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:51 | 1828201 writingsonthewall
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"You're not free if you're forced to pay someone else's pension. "

 

So retirement in poverty - or pay into private pension on the CHANCE you might not end in poverty is a 'free choice' is it?

 

When you all benefit from future and past pensioners then your pension should represent that.

 

Currently private pensions only reflect your immediate capital collection in your lifetime - it does not consider the sacrifices made by previous (and future) generations.

 

you can only do that through collective pensions - i.e. Government pensions.

 

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 10:28 | 1828210 Rynak
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See below..... there is no logical connection at all, between protecting "unlucky" old people, and a corp/gov managed pension fund.

Nothing is stopping everyone saving for himself, and then when retiring deciding if that person should receive additional income from taxes.

 

P.S.: Financially, this is what happens right now anyways - those who now pay into the fund, pay for those who are now receiving their pensions. The differences to how it is handled now are however:

1. No one can take away what you "paid in". So, the amount you saved is safe.

2. Because of this, you have control and predictability over what your pension will look like at minimum. You KNOW the lower bound of what you'll get.

3. Any changes to demographics, have immediate consequences, and thus must be addressed immediatelly - instead of all the current "lagged" effects. Why does that matter? Because humans and especially governments tend to only react in time, to immediate issues.

4. The moral hazard of receiving pensions goes away, if you "paid in" enough to ensure what you want out.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 12:46 | 1828841 LawsofPhysics
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"1. No one can take away what you "paid in". So, the amount you saved is safe."

 

Bullshit, especially when you cash out and the paper they give you buys NOTHING.  Wake up fucknut, if paper is backed by nothing, it is worth nothing.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 15:02 | 1829346 Rynak
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Did you miss the point where i was talking about that one manages one's own pension ONESELF? Did you miss where i intentionally all across the post put "paid in" in quotes, because one doesn't actually "pay" anything "in", in my proposal?

Yes? Kay, then i guess your entire angry post is a mistake.

Or is it still not clear what i'm argueing?

Okay, all i was saying was: Even if everyone manages his pension himself (i.e. gold), that doesn't exclude that "unlucky" old people with low savings, may get some extra income from taxes. So, that everyone manages his pension himself, is not mutually exclusive with a "social aspect" at all - the only difference is that if you manage your savings yourself, you control them.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 10:03 | 1828226 Melin
Melin's picture

"sacrifice" and the "collective" . . .

chants that act as a soothing balm to the looter's soul.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 10:15 | 1828239 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

I wish retards like WritingsOnTheWall had actually lived in the Soviet Union/East Germany/North Korea/Cuba to see what a glorious life is/was led in those Socialist Utopias. The brilliance of Marx was his ability to distill the problems with capitalism. The failure of Marx was his inability to come up with a viable alternative.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 12:51 | 1828852 Raymond K Hessel
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+10000

 

You put better than I ever could.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:52 | 1828202 Rynak
Rynak's picture

More importantly, if all one wanted were to guarantee some kind of minimum income for retirement, this still does not require a corp or gov managed pension fund. So, regardless of if one wants a "social" aspect to retirement or not, the current system is completely unnecessary, and prone to abuse.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:45 | 1828184 DogSlime
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The government bailouts of banks and financial institutions aren't exactly Capitalism, though.

The weird financial "innovations" that allowed the financial institutions to create (and temporarily hide) stupendous levels of debt aren't a necessary component of Capitalism either.

Everyone is blaming this "ism" or that "ism" but what we have here is criminality and corruption - these can happen in a Socialist/Communist/Capitalist system.  The elite have engaged in criminal fraud.  They have defrauded ordinary people in order to enrich themselves.  The politicians have been bought or have caved in out of fear.

This is kind of crap is not peculiar to Capitalism.  It is corruption and fraud.  Blaming a particular ideology is diverting attention from the real issue, I think.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 11:03 | 1828519 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Complete bullshit - it's Capitalism that needs endless consumerism in order to survive.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Comical.

By now, people should have gotten it.

You need to restore a fabled past. That is the solution.

US citizens can not tell when they had capitalism but they know it was good. Now to explain their own system failures, US citizens are used to introducing alien features to explain the failures.

Cant remember who sang that song but US citizens could made it their national anthem, truer to themselves than the current one: song is "it wasnt me"

The sheer naked reality is that the present is the result of US citizenism, nothing alien in it.

US citizens cant self indict, they cant feature themselves as the root of the issue.

They take anything that discharge them from their responsibility and the negative consequences.

Here: that is communism. Communism kicked the bucket and that is fine.

US citizens though missed those days when they could blame communism with some credibility.

It is all part of the restore a fabled past operation. Claiming communism sent them back to the glorious days of their fabled past.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:15 | 1828102 SDS Trader
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No kidding, Gene. 

Someone one or some group at some point is going to literally decide they have nothing left to lose and do something far more drastic than clash with police in riot gear or strike or occupy government buildings. 

It's one thing to clawback with monetization; it's another to clawback with confiscation.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:15 | 1828103 ZeroPoint
ZeroPoint's picture

This is a proper use of government. If you take things that don't belong to you, you deserve what you get.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:15 | 1828105 bigdumbnugly
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all i can say is that it's a good thing achilles and ajax aren't around as they would certainly be "cutting back on waste."

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 09:15 | 1828107 Jimakos
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Don't believe a single word from Greek government officials, they do a lot of talking about spending, but no work at all! The 8 billions to bogus pensions is a communication bubble! Please proceed to next article.

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