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Guess what? It IS 2008, or at least late 2007!

Tyler Durden's picture


From Peter Tchir of TF Market Advisors

For at least the past year, whenever there is any decent sell-off in stocks, virtually every perma-bull trots out the tired platitude that “it isn’t 2008”.  Concern over sovereign debt problems in Europe get brushed aside with a simple comment that “it isn’t Lehman”.  Well, guess what, it is starting to feel a lot like 2008 again, or at least the summer of 2007. 

The market is selling off today on rumors and fears of some European bank being on the brink of default.  Monday, it was BAC that was rumored to be in big trouble.  Markets are moving again because of rumors of bank problems.  That sounds a lot like 2007 and 2008 to me.  People are shooting first, asking questions later again.  Any of SocGen, Intesa, Dexia, BAC are big enough to provide the market with a “Lehman moment”.  Notice the geographical diversification?  The contagion was never really at the sovereigns, it is at the banks.  I have argued over and over that each sovereign problem was relatively independent; whereas, the banks are all inter-connected.  

I think we should have learned from 2008, that banks in particular take a long time to default.  They have many ways to raise money, and I’m sure the Fed and ECB would accommodate them, so I doubt default occurs any time soon, but that is not the point, the point is that markets are moving on fears that they could.  All the disaster scenarios that the perma-bulls have said aren’t in play this time, are back on the table.  Lots of money was made shorting banks that got into huge trouble.  Lots of money was made buying banks that had crushed on overly aggressive rumors of their demise.  It is hard to believe that just a few months ago, the CEO of at least one of these companies was complaining about higher capital requirements and has been trying to pay a dividend.  It is hard to believe, but as someone pointed out to me, it was hard to believe Lehman didn’t do a big capital raise in between March and September 2008.

Just like in 2008, liquidity has been fleeing asset class after asset class.  Liquidity fled the European sovereign debt market months ago, and has left other markets, finally deserting U.S. equities in the past 5 days.  I have ranted about the markets being broken, and it is this lack of liquidity that I am lamenting.  Assets can go up and down in a broken market, they just happen to move far more than you would expect on any given news or rumor.  $2.2 trillion of Spanish and Italian debt got re-priced by 100 bps in 3 days.  Assuming an average duration of 2.5, that is a €55 billion change in value of the debt of those two countries.  All from purchases alleged to be less than €10 billion.  Put simply, the market is broken.
Small and nimble positions remain the order of the day.  I still have a few IG200 hats, which I hope don’t have to come out again.  I also have an IG20 hat.  It is actually an IG200 hat that an incredibly frustrated bear crossed out the last zero in utter frustration at stock’s relentless climb late last year.


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Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:18 | 1546480 runlevel
runlevel's picture

Good news everyone... we have a package to deliver to ebola 9

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:21 | 1546496 More_sellers_th...
More_sellers_than_buyers's picture

ehhh wait a minute....that's not very good news at all!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:23 | 1546511 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Here you go panicking again....

let's just first open the package and taste whatever is inside.


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:26 | 1546535 gratefultraveller
gratefultraveller's picture

lol SD, there seems to be a "sweet" for you on in the table: PORT and WAFFLES

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:32 | 1546554 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

USA FED Can bail 'Em all out ...


Whats another $5 Trill Between Buddies...

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:38 | 1546606 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture


Ahhh ... We can all rest easy now .?.......


France’s AAA Credit Affirmed by S&P, Moody’s


Aug 10, 2011 11:05 AM ET

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:09 | 1546858 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Seriously....given the massive disincentive of any nation to announce that a major bank has failed, how can markets expect any such occurence? Most knew BAC and C were insolvent 3 years ago, it's just a matter of not accounting for the fact.  How would this play out any differently in Europe?  The money masters know how to play the game.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:31 | 1546562 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

While it isn't very large since I had "just" started putting money towards it, I officially sent my HR an email telling them I want out. Its not alot of money but its all going to precious metals. I received an email from my company's "financial advisor" stating the following.

"Closer inspections of the market suggest the fundamentals are still strong.  Aside from the spotlight on our government dealing with the debt ceiling issue in a most unflattering manner, there is no single event or piece of news driving this decline.  Unlike late 2008, we are not worried our largest banks are on the brink of closing.  I was a young broker back in 1987 when the stock market suffered its worst one day drop in percentage terms.   Today, like 1987, the selling is not driven by fundamental issues and, in fact, the fundamental factors suggest the market is undervalued and getting more so with each decline.  You might wonder if this sell-off portends deeper economic worries but the evidence suggests this is not the case.


So, as an investor it is important to keep your focus on the long term and not be distracted by the current “white noise.”  Today, the market is on sale and I suggest savvy long term investors will want to do some shopping."

The moment I read this moronic email, I decided to pull my funny money out and do what I should have done when I started adding money in the first place.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:38 | 1546607 max2205
max2205's picture

Below SPX 1,080 and watch the towels get thrown in...... just the PPT only able to keep a retest of the lows from happenning...piss poor job i'd say

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:44 | 1546646 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

Just realized I didn't say this is relating to a 401k account.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:08 | 1546846 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Yes, he gets paid for endlessly repeating the "fundamentals are strong", "stay invested for the long term", and "if stocks are on sale, buy more". You should send him a chart of the S&P going back to 2000 and ask for a list of the fundamentals that are strong. He'll send you back a bar graph showing how much you'll have in your 401K assuming 8% real returns for the next 30 years.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 13:31 | 1547263 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

I'm trying to explain this to people. Think about this. You even mention 401k to a person and i don't care what kind of bear you talk to they'll go "oh, 401k is a good idea because its basically like free money" Yeah.. sorta. Except you could end up with less nominal value than you put into it, regardless of how much your company "contributes." Oh and if you need the money, you may not be able to get it. By cashing my 401k out all i am doing is paying the government to get my same amount I paid back. So basically the IRS will make money, not me. What am i supposed to hold onto this 401k until I'm 65? Ok.. so around 2050. Do i really believe that my money is going to "grow" over time? Just like home values? Its so disarming, and anything that disarming and a "surefire" thing, is something I fear. The world doesn't work that way. "Free money, always goes up, whats not to like?" I'll pass.

I'm now being told by my HR i can't cash out until i leave the company. I'm now trying to get a hold of the investment firm, to get the real scoop. I mean i don't care if that account goes to zero at this point, however, I do want those metals for cheap.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 18:20 | 1548746 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

Easy Killer.  Don't base your retirement on two weeks worth of moves in the markets. They will go down till they don't then back up again.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:34 | 1546576 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

good idea - can I go first?

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:45 | 1547035 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

This Smiths tune is applicable in all markets today:

(but you can replace "DJ" with Bernanke or your fave central banker)

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:31 | 1546556 Cleanclog
Cleanclog's picture

Santelli had a great quote about 15 minutes ago on some Hedge funds losing credit lines and some collateral being triple margins.  "Those who can't find financing for positions they shouldn't have put on anyway".  Also "When everything is predicated o ns-t rates and O/N funds, leverage can be gone instantly.  Tough to fix!"

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:41 | 1546627 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Leverage enriches on the upside, but is an army of epic destruction on the downside.

And one's secretary can't put Mr. Margin on hold when he calls, either.

Mr. Margin is an impatient, cruel, soul-less sonofabitch.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:30 | 1546960 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

Kind of like the Grimm Reaper. No check in the mail bitch pay up and in full.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:46 | 1547045 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

I reckon more like the Dementors. They're not going to completely kill you, but you'll wish you were dead after a while.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:19 | 1546486 doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

Remain Calm

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:27 | 1546537 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

They are going to launch the NWO Currency this time. 


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:31 | 1546557 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

First they need world war and big depopulation before any 1 world govt, 1 world currency, they must reduce population by their own stated levels of 60% lower at least. The population is the problem, from their point of view. We aint seen nothin yet folks.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:39 | 1546613 toady
toady's picture

Thats the word my algos look for;


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:34 | 1546986 El Viejo
El Viejo's picture


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:20 | 1546491 Midwest Prepper
Midwest Prepper's picture

Buy some more Transitory, Traditional Gold...

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:43 | 1546639 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:20 | 1546494 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

But...but...SocGen denies everything...Calling Dick Fuld...Calling Dick Fuld...

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:35 | 1546587 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

has cramer called a buy yet? it's not over until cramer calls a buy...

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:20 | 1546495 OpenEyes
OpenEyes's picture

Free Peas for Everybody!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:22 | 1546503 geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

Green shoots!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:23 | 1546512 geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

Or maybe it's green (para)chutes?

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:26 | 1546533 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

it says "Soylent Green" on the packaging...


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:21 | 1546500 Outlaw Of The W...
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simon hobbs thinks this is all ridiculous.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:23 | 1546515 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Ridiculous people enjoy ridiculous outcomes.  Self-reinforcing nonsense.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:21 | 1546501 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Its not lack of liquidity, its an abundance. Gold stocks where down 70% in 2008, they are up today and when the dow was down 600 points.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 13:50 | 1547341 Bwahaha WAGFDSMB
Bwahaha WAGFDSMB's picture

It's an asymmetry of liquidity.  Some entities lack it while others have it in abundance.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:21 | 1546505 cossack55
cossack55's picture

I've been sayin' for 4 years, burn em all. Did anyone listen. Apparently not. Heres a hint; take your fractional Reserve Lending and stick it.  Hooray for Iceland.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:45 | 1546664 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

I'll drink to that.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:22 | 1546508 djsmps
djsmps's picture

Art Cashin was interviewd by the CNBS clown-twit Simon and said the same thing today. Something seems unpleasant listening to the screechy whiny voice of that clown-twit Simon interviewing Art Cashin. I miss Mark Haines.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:22 | 1546509 Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

This sooo much worse than 2008. Prepare for any outcome. Invest in farm land - if I am wrong, you can resell it. If I am right, you get to eat.

I am The Chief


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:24 | 1546519 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Its obvious why you were elected Chief.


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:33 | 1546572 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

Soros bought millions of acres in Africa on the cheap. First time I have ever heard such a thing. Meredith Whitney said this a.m. on CNBC that banks are converting from lenders of money to borrowers to investors of equities and our economy is shifting to a agriculture based economy. HMMMMM.... Sounds like your onto something Chief

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:41 | 1546621 HedgetBedgadget
HedgetBedgadget's picture

Lets say you have plenty of money right now and buy 10 ha of land. Lets say the shit makes a big splash on the fan.

Lets say you start working your land to provide food to your family.

Lets say autumn comes, and I and my Eastern European friends, all loaded with Ak47 and other cheap but deadly weaponry, are dying to get our hands on some food. And let's say we, now, read Zerohedge, and know that YOU have land and food.

And like all "machos" around here,  you're also loaded. So we plan. We wait for you.

At night when you're sleeping. We throw lots of Molotovs into your house. Your wife runs  out screaming. Your kids follow her. You are the last. Of course armed. From the safety of the trees and bushes, we snipe you. The lone wolf dies a heroic death, not knowing from where did the bullet came.

Bang you're dead. We get your wife, we get your kids and your food.

Think land or gold is a good investment?


The best investment is a local strong united group. A reinforced village. In other words a community. A society.

A country. A federation. That is what can protect idiots like you that think they are safe with their gold and their arable land in some forsaken corner of USA.


I'm baffled by you guys that act as if you want civilized society to end in an abrupt and utterly catastrophic manner.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:51 | 1546701 Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Hey Hedgetbed.... pound sand..

If you will refer to the demographics links on my site you would see this tract and my business is located in a solid rural area with hard working Americans. And I never said anything about wanting a collapse. Wanting one and preparing for one are two different animals.. so Blast Off.

I am The Chief

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:57 | 1546768 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

So, you & your band of mercs come waltzing into our valley - How do you do that unnoticed with every dog in the valley ratting you out? How do you sneak anywhere with the dogs all barking and 1/2 of my neighbors have night vision. The SECOND they think there is an armed intrusion all of the sniper outlooks are going to manned by OUR GUYS with .308s & expensive optics.

Keep in good with your neighbors and your nonsense scenario will never come to pass. No one in their right mind wants any sort of MadMax scenario, but you are an idiot to think that these guys who have prepared are the pushovers you describe.



Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:59 | 1546781 HedgetBedgadget
HedgetBedgadget's picture

So, tell me, between Zerohedge and some NY office job or whatever you do, when do you have time to get SEALs training and whatnot? When you buy your boss a Pizza from Dominos?

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:03 | 1546808 Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Ever listen to Hank Williams Jr.....? A country boy can survive you arrogant eurotrash asswipe!

I am The Chief

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:09 | 1546856 HedgetBedgadget
HedgetBedgadget's picture

Lemme guess,  you're winning in Iraq and Afghanistan because of all the "tough young country American boys" and their ultra expensive optics and weaponry, that in their free time shot dogs at training session with all the red-necks from their village?


Americanz are quite a bunch.


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:19 | 1546923 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

you're a piece of shit (spit!)

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 13:31 | 1547261 toady
toady's picture

Europe will be ashes before amy euro-trash like you gets within 1000 miles of an American valley.

Americans pull together in hard times. Europeans start world wars, then Americans save their asses.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:29 | 1546952 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:05 | 1546821 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

Dogs &, I guess that extremely basic American concept is too advanced for a simpleton urban troll such as yourself. Keep ignorant and smug, less competition for the rest of us.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 13:19 | 1547202 Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Don't let them get to you Chinaguy...

We know the truth and the fact is America will rise from the ashes of this failed attempt of global socialism. They know nothing of the true wealth of our country... our people.

And the next time Russia or Germany jumps on 'em, we will sit it out.

I am The Chief

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:14 | 1546889 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

You have to love hypothetical situations, ehh?  If you get that close to my house, I'm not in it.  Otherwise, you'll be in range well before I'm in range of your molotov.  Communities will have 24/7 patrols, layered defenses, and roaming bands of criminals will seek out easier targets or die stupid.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:18 | 1546916 HedgetBedgadget
HedgetBedgadget's picture

What communities??

Aren't you all saying something like "... gee when I talk to my friends, neighbours and acquaintances, and tell them to buy weapons, bullets and gold, ... they all look at me as some conspiracy theorist ... ohh the sheeple.... bitchezz" ?


You guys are mostly lone wolfs.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:29 | 1546950 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

Have you ever been in a rural community? Have you ever even been in this country? - the majority of farmers hunt - and because we are a RICH country we can afford expensive guns with expensive optics, and because we hunt, we can drop large game out to several hundred meters. SEALs training my ass.

Your are a fucking idiot troll who doesn't know shit about what you are talking about.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:34 | 1546967 HedgetBedgadget
HedgetBedgadget's picture

So besides hunting with your red-neck buddies all day as training (that must take a lot of your daily time), you have time to check zerohedge and all sorts of financial indicators?? Do you even have Internet in that rural America of yours??


 And yeah, I guess all that cheap corn you rural Americanz produce pays all the expensive Austrian made weaponry with high-tech optics.

What kind of pussy hunts with a rifle equipped with "high tech optics"?

We Russians kill, tigers with only our bare hands and a knife.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 13:32 | 1547267 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

That is funny. Perhaps if you tried to save the tigers, you'd be worthy of life.


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:17 | 1546912 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I was going to write a long piece on all the relatively cheap defenses I'd have in place including the geese, but why give a lowlife bandit ideas?

Did you ever wonder why banditry was such a short term occupation even on the American frontier?

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:22 | 1546926 HedgetBedgadget
HedgetBedgadget's picture


US Marshalls. Police. Federal Army.

But definitely not your lone wolfs armed to the teeth, that think they are part of some "important militia group" maintaining order.


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:56 | 1547094 GCT
GCT's picture

Although hedge has a valid point. Community is important.  Raiders, looters, may have a blast in the cities.  Once you head out of there you number will continue to dwindle.  They will get shot, maimed and sick.  By the time you get to your destination we do not have to worry about your kind.  You forget that in rural areas they have a big sense of community and know each other well. 

Most hunters do indeed invest in good optics and good rifles and small arms.  You forget they sometimes have to defend their land now.  Rambo's are always the first to go down so good luck with your expedition.  Most likely I will be dead before all of this doom and gloom happens anyway, but if I am alive and the SHTF most will alreay be waiting for you.  The country boys may not be a college educated investor, but they do know their land and how to protect it.  They do know who is suppose to be in their area and who is not.

I am even careful now when I hit certain areas.  They will not shoot you on site but they will come bearing arms.  Now if you are carrying arms, you will be disarmed before you even see them. 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 13:43 | 1547305 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

Pretty much spot on. A lot of the "good old boys" I know aren't book smart but they are not fools either and they know who's not suppose to be in their part of the valley.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 13:57 | 1547371 Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Hedge is just ratling our cage. This college educated country boy investor knows the real deal.

The answers are indeed in finding the right community within which to purchase land. Check your demographics, weather, soil...etc. Then find land with water.

Hedge is much too busy waxing his body and gelling his hair to understand the value of rural living.

I am The Chief

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 16:43 | 1548250 HedgetBedgadget
HedgetBedgadget's picture

I'm a not a westerner. My grandparent were farmers. When I was young I helped around the house. I know how to pick the eatable berries and mushrooms from the forrest.

I did lots of manual agriculture work, like using horses to plow (we are poor in Eastern Europe), I know how to plant seeds, I know how to cut wood.

I know how to take good care of cows, horses and goats. I know how to use what these animals produce.

I actually know how to do agriculture without machines, unlike you Americanz, that for agriculture to work your way, you need fuel. Do you have the skills and knowledge to work the field without your tractors and without your oil based fertilizers?

I probably I'm more than equiped to survive as a lone wolf than most of the guys around here, with their "hight-tech high-definition-optics improved rifles".

But even I, doubt that a lone wolf can survive for long in a Mad Max world, were the hungry and the poor are in the billions, and are willing to do whaterver it takes to just eat. I even doubt  that a small community can survive attacks by millions of hungry zombies, be they urbanites or even ruralites. 


Most of you guys talk about rural living in an attempt to look "manly". Without oil and electricity, you Americanz are kaput.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 19:49 | 1549113 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

For someone who claims to be so superior you certainly do not know how to debate. Assumptions to any comment are a clear sign of already composed conviction. Thus you are consistantly wrong right out of the gate.

P.S. I have a nice Eastern European rifle for sale. Never shot and only dropped twice. It's not worth much because there are so many of them but thought you might be interested anyway.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 19:49 | 1549114 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

For someone who claims to be so superior you certainly do not know how to debate. Assumptions to any comment are a clear sign of already composed conviction. Thus you are consistantly wrong right out of the gate.

P.S. I have a nice Eastern European rifle for sale. Never shot and only dropped twice. It's not worth much because there are so many of them but thought you might be interested anyway.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 19:52 | 1549121 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

That's right. It was worth repeating.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 13:44 | 1547313 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

thanks for the advice.....

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:23 | 1546514 TTaco
TTaco's picture

Hey! I recon those Idiots have sold plenty of Warrants on Gold through LYXOR to Retail an Institutional Investors. I Recon this time BNPParibas will face no stop to buy what their "cher" rival (they attempted 3 times) for a "croissant" € price. Et Voilá !

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:23 | 1546516 AG BCN
AG BCN's picture

Zerohedge just got a mention on CNBC Europe.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:31 | 1546559 HUGE_Gamma
HUGE_Gamma's picture

and 1 person was watching

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:35 | 1546588 AG BCN
AG BCN's picture

Better to watch Jamie's bus trip.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:24 | 1546522 digalert
digalert's picture

One day the banksters will stop, look at each other and realize they're all holding bags o' shit. Just like good ole days...

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:25 | 1546524 heatbarrier
heatbarrier's picture

Banks interconnected to the hilt.  Think networks.  Follow derivatives and look for the hubs: JPM,BAC,C in the US, DB,SocGen in the EU.  You go, we go.  

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:25 | 1546525 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture






Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:26 | 1546530 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I disagree 100% with the fundamental premise of this article.

This IS a sovereign crisis, as we can see by the incredible tension in the EU, where Germany either does or does not puke up their collective national savings and future earnings to rescue, if even only temporarily (because of a broken system), the PIIGS+France+WhomeverElse.

The banks are in deep trouble also, and the central bankers such as The Bernankincide (hello, alleged ZIRP forever - alleged) and Trichet are using taxpayer dollars to prop them up; there is no question about this.

But this, unlike 2008, remains an all out sovereign crisis.

The European Union will fall now. Germans are not going to accept a Portuguese standard of living, which is what will happen if the ECB tries to save the rest of Europe by purchasing worthless bonds.

The banks are being propped up by the use of taxpayer extracted monies and low yields on savings, which is having a boomerang effect, reducing consumption and worsening the real economy.

It's tied together, but it's the sovereign debt issue that crashes everything, whereas if that wasn't on the table, the zombie could grind on for much longer.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:39 | 1546611 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

you're an idiot - can't you even follow the money trail back 3 years?


the debt came from the banks and now it's brought down the nations



Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:44 | 1546649 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Sovereigns bailed out the banks. Now the sovereigns are the bagholders of worthless credit, destroying their currencies, financial systems and central banks

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:36 | 1546999 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

If governments made themselves the willing accomplices of the theives, they should go down.

It isn't like it is that hard to form a new one.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:58 | 1546766 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture
by writingsonthewall
on Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:39


you're an idiot - can't you even follow the money trail back 3 years?


the debt came from the banks and now it's brought down the nations



You seem like you need a lesson in economics.

Do you?

You don't seem to understand that the central banks, through fractional reserve practices (see 'Modern Money Mechanics'), create debt to provide both assets (even though they're literally derived from debt from the moment of inception) for chartered banks, and to ensure that government can spend more than their revenues.

IOW, you don't seem to acknowledge the critical difference between central banks and garden variety banks. The former is able to create money by allowing government to deficit spend (as the central banks buy its debt with money conjured), whereas the latter depend on the former to do anything, literally (the central bank can give and it can take away).

And if you do recognize it, you don't communicate it well.

You should rephrase your statement to read "the debt came from the central banks and now it's brought down the nations."

But I will refrain from calling you an idiot, no matter how deserving of that title you are.



Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:13 | 1546881 Dick Fitz
Dick Fitz's picture

I wish I could could block idiots and trolls so that only see posts from people who "get it", like ETFed and Sudden Debt and CogDis. It would make 0H much easier to read.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:41 | 1546622 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

+1.  The difference between now and then is who is backstopping the liabilities...  basically, we've run out of backstoppers.  Then, they could play hot potato one last time and stuff toxic bullshit onto sovereign balance sheets (although they may remain hidden in plain view)...  not so much now.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:48 | 1546674 HedgetBedgadget
HedgetBedgadget's picture

Portugal has beautiful beaches and a simple and relaxed way of living. Nice fish food also.

Germans on the other hand have a semi-cold weather and Russia as a "friend".

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:20 | 1546924 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

TiS, with the author's comment of "I have argued over and over that each sovereign problem was relatively independent; whereas, the banks are all inter-connected" you almost get the impression that they do not understand the fact that the banks use sovereigns as their puppets.  Sovereigns are indeed connected because their puppet strings all lead to the same master. /boggle

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:42 | 1547007 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I'd expect confusion from some, but not from those who hold themselves out as experts of some sort or another.

I don't consider myself an expert, but through basic due diligence and application of basic math, even I realize that Bernanke is standing buy, always offering more dope to the junky, but only if the junky's chaperone approves an allowance hike that's large enough to support his drug habit, whereas rehab might, ultimately, actually happen (but not really).

In Europe, Trichet is waiting on Germany, and Germany's politicians are, at least to some degree, looking at and weighing up the gag reflex of the larger body politic - only irrational Germans would want to offer up their national savings and that of future generations of Germans to save a broken EU, with broken welfare states/debt junkies, given that they'll all be back begging for more dope in 6 months or 16 months.

Even if the EU was curing the disease that produced the crisis, rational Germans would be hesitant to sacrifice themselves; that the EU has not even attempted to treat the disease that produced the crisis should give even the most charitable or EU-backing Germans serious doubts about the viability of the whole situation.

In the U.S., rather than see this exact same crisis playing out, we'll see state and local governments be forced to cut, because their sugar daddy is the U.S. Government, rather than Federal Reserve (and unless about another 8 trillion is offered and taken by the U.S. Government, it will be state and local government cuts before bailouts).

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:26 | 1546532 OpenEyes
OpenEyes's picture

I had a big argument with my 'financial advisor' back in 2008 where he insisted that my wife and I should 'stay invested' in the market but I was instructing him to move everything into gold, silver, oil and natural gas.  He even made me sign some disclaimer that said I was knowingly going against their recommendations and that I held all responsibility for these purchases.  Since then, I have been comparing the price of AU to the S&P as a quick, back of the napkin, gauge on that call.  As gold caught, and surpassed, the S&P I felt pretty good about my decision even during the run-up post QE.

Now, gold is so far ahead of the S&P ($654 as I write this) that I've begun comparing to Nasdaq.  Currently only a $302 delta there, I suspect it'll move Nasdaq before the end of the year, or sooner, and I'll have to start targeting the DJIX!

By the way, my 'financial advisor' no longer questions my decisions.


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:30 | 1546548 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

stay vigilant. The "financial advisers" might start pushing PM's next. That's when you work on the exit strategy.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:46 | 1546665 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Recently went to a "sales pitch" meeting by a local financial advisor...  who advocated farm land and physical possession of precious metals, among other things...  I had joked that the discussion would entail nothing but annuities, apple and netflix stocks, and treasuries...  it was a pleasant surprise.

The problem of course is...  why the fuck should the financial advisor have a job if that's what I'm supposed to sink my money in?  [a question I presume the advisor asked herself...  which ultimately required her to push taking my money to stuff it into another fund managed by someone else and give her a cut for the effort...  her business card promptly found the trash can].

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:01 | 1546789 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

By the way, my 'financial advisor' no longer questions my decisions.

Fired mine.  We don't need no stink'n Financial Advisors.  Got ZH. 

$1800 gold, now in the books.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:26 | 1546534 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

Review the script from 2008-2009 and prepare accordingly. Short on the way down, commodities on the way up when the next reflation attempt starts in earnest.

It's amusing how the world leader shit on the Fed but when the going gets tough, they fall right in line. Gee, maybe the Fed does know a little something about maintaining the status quo?


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:36 | 1546592 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

The system knows that script too well.  Those who follow it will get caught in their trap.    There is no safe strategy anymore more than a few minutes in duration.  "Be nimble" indeed.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:48 | 1546687 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Umm...  I dunno if you're noticing, but some things (e.g. gold) are not performing the same as they did the last time...  last time, the dollar really was a safe haven...  this time, it's sharing the spotlight, at the very least.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:28 | 1546536 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I wonder when Obama's approval rating hits parity with the percentage of Americans on food stamps

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:29 | 1546544 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Isnt it about there already? 45% or so? I know Obummer has a 60% strong disaproval of handling of the economy.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:28 | 1546538 mfoste1
mfoste1's picture

Bernanke:" Weez, I mean yous iz PHUCKED"

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:28 | 1546539 FranSix
FranSix's picture

Does anybody notice that Glenn Beck precious coins ads are filling up the website?


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:29 | 1546549 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Download Adblocker+, never look at an ad again.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:28 | 1546540 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

just sayin but are the pension funds in panic mode again?

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:28 | 1546543 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Interesting. But whenever I hear Lehman's, my thoughts turn to BAC, not to SocGen. If BAC goes, isn't it also bye bye to AIG as well? That is deja vu. 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:29 | 1546545 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Sovereign problems can be as independant as they want to be. But they all use money that is tied to the interconnected banks. Which fractionally reserve all that money. So there's not enough to go around come liquidation time. Like reggie said on the europe banks. If they try to present a single default without looking under the fractional reserve money box there's no problem But if you look inside. It all dies together.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:51 | 1546718 tempo
tempo's picture

The big international banks will never fail as they do the work of the soverign countries. In 2008, all developed countries supported stimulus. Now there is gridlock in US and EU as whether deficits can be expanded. IMO they can be financed. When everyone agrees that "tanks in the streets" is worse than more deficits, the market will take off again. Watch for a change in conservative talk radio as a leading indicator.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:29 | 1546546 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

BAC will be lucky to make it through Friday.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:29 | 1546547 Johnny Lawrence
Johnny Lawrence's picture

Holy shit...I just got this emailed to me by Alliance Bernstein (pardon the lack of formatting)

This Is Not 2008

Investors are understandably drawing parallels with the
financial crisis of 2008. Yet, while there are many aspects
of the current situation that bear close watching, we find
several important fundamental differences between the
events of three years ago and those of today.
Companies Are Lean and Cash Rich
???? Corporations today are highly profitable, and
earnings results continue to exceed expectations.
???? Nearly 60% of companies in the MSCI World beat
second-quarter earnings expectations; more than
76% of the S&P 500 did so.
???? Forecast return on equity for companies in the
MSCI World was 15.3% at the end of July 2011,
versus 12.0% at the end of February 2009.
???? Inventory levels are much lower.
???? Companies have streamlined costs and built
massive cash balances. In the US (where we have
the longest data series), cash as a percent of assets is
now at the highest level since the early 1960s.
Financial System Is Better Prepared
???? Bank balance sheets, particularly in the US, are in
better shape than they were in 2008.
???? Capital ratios are much stronger, providing a
cushion to cover loan losses.
???? Interest rates in most developed economies remain
at historically low levels.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:32 | 1546565 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yes its not 2008, its far far worse than 2008, because theyre all out of bullshit to shovel.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:41 | 1546624 Johnny Lawrence
Johnny Lawrence's picture

It's disgusting isn't it?  It's like they all huddle together and come up with the same marketing play.  I hate this industry.  I told all my clients this was coming, have minimal exposure to the equity market, and have only received 2 thank you's over the past week.  I'm saving your life's earnings, assholes. They deserve this Alliance Bernstein type bullshit.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:40 | 1547011 citta vritti
citta vritti's picture

Correction: they’re all out of shovels; still plenty of BS

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:32 | 1546568 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Wow ! Was that email from 2008?  If it's not it's a cut and paste.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:30 | 1546553 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

its like a blow up doll with a leak

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:37 | 1546601 Worker Bee
Worker Bee's picture

That comment gave me whole new way to describe our mess to the "sleepers". Thank you.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:01 | 1546771 Worker Bee
Worker Bee's picture

The global economy is like a blow up doll with a leak...The Banksters take turns fucking it and every once in awhile The FED has to lube it and reinflate.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:23 | 1546936 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

with no way to plug it...

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:32 | 1546555 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Its not 2008 until Libor-OIS blows out, or a bank (or banks HF, a la BSC) fails. Whether or not a bank failure will come very soon or only in 2012 is another story.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:40 | 1546561 Bob
Bob's picture

The contagion was never really at the sovereigns, it is at the banks.

This should be recognized by all, obvious as it is.  It would seem, however, that the corporate media and political machine is doing a worldwide diversionary action to deflect attention from the REAL  problem.  Not surprising in itself, of course. 

Unfortunately, there are too many state-hating useful idiots exploiting the situation to serve our masters' needs in the misinformation campaign.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:32 | 1546563 shazbotz
shazbotz's picture

I Smell a ... BANK RUN


might as well cash out while I can

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:32 | 1546564 GCT
GCT's picture

I know you all are brutal but I have a question and observation and will gladly take my ass kicking from this place.  I read this site day in and day out.  My observation is by locking out the tresuries with zero interest, they are forcing money in the other riskier markets.   Am I correct?  Aren't they just screwing people that save or are on a fixed income by doing this?  This stuff is scary! 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:37 | 1546574 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Well, thats going on the idea that there are ONLY 2 possible places to put money, stocks or bonds. I believe smart people are putting money in gold, farmland, shovels, plows, firearms, ammo, beans, and bullets. LOTS of places to park money rather than BS govt manipulated paper!

And notice I said 'ammo' twice, thats right buy lots!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:50 | 1546713 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:33 | 1546977 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Here's another alternative - use your money to pay down all your debts. Also, catch up or get ahead of all scheduled maintenance on your big ticket items - house, car, and so on. Lower how much money you need to come up with each month to as low a value as possible. Make as much of your spending as you possibly can discretionary, and have 6-12 months of cash on hand.

The problem with the whole "guns and farmland" plan is the percentage of the population who can both (A) successfully farm (a lot harder than most of you yahoos think) and (B) are good enough with weapons and tactics to defend it is, I'm guessing, very, very low. I'm sure all the brave posters who spout "guns and farmland" are in that 0.01% of the population, but maybe not.

For a historical perspective, do a little research on what happened to the white farmers in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe when the shit hit the fan in that country. They had lots of guns and chickens too.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:40 | 1546620 heatbarrier
heatbarrier's picture

I hope you don't have an economics background, this clip explains the disease.  There is no cure.  Except global war.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:50 | 1546719 GCT
GCT's picture

Thanks for the replies.  I figured it was commodities and yes I am in gold.  Farmland not a problem own some diverisified a long time ago.  But aren't they just really screwing the poor folks that were doing the right thing by saving?  Doing the right thing by not spending everything they made.  I am so pissed right now because of this crap.

I am prepared thanks to some of you and a good friend.  Sqw this coming in 2008 when I started reading ZH, Mish, and some other sites.  I want to choke some people Monday when my bosses assistant was crying.  I am still pissed.  she lost alot because she did not know she could move her money in the 401k plan we have.  Yep she is blonde! 

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:54 | 1546747 heatbarrier
heatbarrier's picture

Th key is to minimize debt. Avoid leverage like the plague.   It's debt that kills you in a deflationary recession/depression.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:27 | 1546947 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

What are the odds that that same co-worker has a car loan, mortgage, and multiple credit cards too.  She has 25K in a 401k though, so she feels rich! har har  We are so easily fooled, huh?  People need to get out of debt completely, prepare for the day when their money buys nothing, and then, and only then, should they consider putting their wealth in investments.  That's just me though.  Maybe I'm crazy.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:32 | 1546566 Catullus
Catullus's picture

You know what would really be cool? If I could see what my bank owned and what they were marking those "assets" to and what risk management devices were in place to stress test the value of those assets versus a measure of market volatility. I think in the days of yore, they refered to this as mark-to-market. Someone said that this method "caused" the volatility. Boy, doesn't that former House Finance Committee Chairman sound dumb!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:33 | 1546571 Peter K
Peter K's picture

Hate to break the bad news to you Tyler, but the bank are in trouble because they bought soveriegn debt. They bought soveriegn debt because it was AAA paper, and because the governments told them that the debt had an implicit gurantee;) Now where have we heard that one before?  GSE anyone?

But what killed the soveriegns is.... wait for it... socialism.

See how the puzzle fits together;)

BTW Socialism es muerte.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:35 | 1546583 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

No doubt thats true.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:55 | 1546757 MichaelG
MichaelG's picture

"From Peter Tchir of TF Market Advisors"

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:32 | 1546970 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

The banksters own the sovereigns.  The banksters are the masters, and the sovereigns are the puppets.  That's not socialism either.  It's fascism.  Socialism is certainly used as an excuse to increase sovereign debts, but then fascists have been using socialism as a tool for a VERY long time.  There's no surprise there.  8-(

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 15:18 | 1547667 Peter K
Peter K's picture

Dude, your basement is flooding. Get out while you can :)

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:38 | 1546575 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

How come we never hear about that quadrillion dollar derivatives pyramid? You'd think it would start tottering or something. I guess they build 'em tough like Fords, or like the Egyptian pharoahs built'em?

When do we start hearing a rumbling sound? Maybe Tyler could start a rumor about it.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:34 | 1546582 orca
orca's picture

In this DEFCON-0 environment perception is reality and that works both ways. You (=FED/ECB/BOJ/BOE et al) wanted full matrix and you got it.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:36 | 1546595 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Congrats, Bernanke and Trichet!

You've managed to morph "ride the escalator up...take the elevator down" into "ride the elevator up...get thrown off the fucking building".

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:37 | 1546597 MoneyWise
MoneyWise's picture

Absurd, it's no way near 2007 nor 2008.
We have no liquidity then. It's pharmacological problem
in many heads, when on any rumor, today France, yesterday Italy, month ago Greece. French banks
are fine and EUR not going to collapse, at least not
in 2011-2012.. NO recession either, back in 2008
we was loosing 70k jobs per month (or week?)
Anyways.. Nothing like 2008 Say Gold was at 750$
back then and Silver cost $8 and that's deflationary
collapse. Gold setting up for parabolic move and
then Like Silver from 50 to 32 in few days..
So far enjoy the ride. Guess what many stocks are actually GREEN today.. Many Energy MLP's with solid

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:39 | 1546612 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'Liquidity' LOL! Yea the Titanic had lots of liquidity too...

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:42 | 1546630 Johnny Lawrence
Johnny Lawrence's picture

Holy shit, I hope you don't advise people on what to do with their money.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:02 | 1546803 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

You are correct that it is not 2007-2008.

You are wrong that it is a "pharmacological" problem.  It is a BULLSHIT problem....and you sir are part of that problem.

You are so full of shit I cannot understand how your family puts up with it.  You fucking moron...we are not in a recession like in 2008?  Pray tell what metric is better than 2007.  Employment? Housing? Construction? GDP?  Dow Jones Index? S&P?  NASDAQ, Russell 3000? Personal Income?  Trade Gap?  Personal Savings?  401K value?  IRA value?  Health Care Costs?  Infrastructure?  Just because the collapse has somewhat abated, at least temporarily by the means that only corrupt governments and their national banks can provide, does not mean we are still not "recessed".  If we are still in a hole, as EVERY SINGLE METRIC imaginable says we are....then we are still in a recession....or in other words....a hole.  A VERY DEEP HOLE !

Shall I go on?  Probably not.  You're too stupid to find out the facts yourself or perhaps to read them properly when and if you get off your ideological ass and do so.

Energy stocks GREEN?  Retard.  Energy stocks are up because profits are up from the high price of fuel due to peak cheap energy, stock buybacks and consolidation in the industry where the weaker companies are bought up by the strong to increase market share and pricing power.  Also their infrestructure costs are down as they are not drilling as much due to the fact that many well projects are out of reach due to low profit margin vs. costs benefit until oil is well past 100-120 dollars a barrel.  Of course this won't last long because it is a proven fact the economy can not take high prices like this for very long thus destroying demand, thus destroying the need to produce as much and making it harder to outlay 100's of millions of dollars in investment in new wells.

To the original point of whether it is banks or countries that are is non-issue.  The banks are the sovereigns.  What makes economies run well enough to take the time to organize into a political structure in the first place?  Banks.  And governments, and the cowards who run them and our lives, know that the only thing standing in their way of joining us un-washed masses in the chaos they created are the banks.  They will do anything, just as Bernanke is preparing to do, even if it means funneling tax-payer dollars which are worth much less now that the printing presses are rolling, to keep foreign banks afloat as well as ours here. 

Because after all.....there are no here or there, domestic banks or foreign banks,  Money is fungable and has no nationality.  The banks are one.  Banks are truly the global government.

And the globe is in deep shit.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:34 | 1546982 MoneyWise
MoneyWise's picture

"You are so full of shit I cannot understand how your family puts up with it. You fucking moron...we are not in a recession like in 2008? Pray tell what metric is better than 2007. Employment? Housing? Construction? GDP? Dow Jones Index? S&P? NASDAQ, Russell 3000? Personal Income? Trade Gap? Personal Savings? 401K value? IRA value? Health Care Costs? Infrastructure? "

You are brainwashed by ZH, an doom and gloom community, man, hard to comment on anything you've said, F*U too, I guess, cause everything
you mention above is better.
Corp profits better,
Bank Balance sheets better, Employment, YES Better,
not much, but Better, GDP better, cause in 2008 there was a negative GDP, and on and on, And I do have Gold as well, moron. That doesn't mean, I should not invest in stocks. To call it RECESSION,
we should see 2 consecutive Quarters of Negative growth? Show it to me BS man!!! I'm not saying everything is Rosy, but Stop f*cking BS Doom.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 13:40 | 1547295 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Corporate profits better.....for many,,,yeah I'll give you that.  Know why...of course not.  Profits are up because costs are down.  The major costs to corporations?  The slaves they employ.  Keep your wage costs stagnant...force the slaves you have not fired to do more...which is called productivity which is also up (YEA US!).....OR off shore that work OR get a robot or a computer to do it,,,,which also keeps your health care costs lower as well as any matching funds the corporations dole out to 401k's, etc.....and presto.....more profits.

Bank balance sheets are better....because they are still flush with our tax dollars that are made wortheless by Ben Bernanke's policies.  It is very easy to show a book balance profit.  Even if you do not cook the books which the banks have proven they do time after time and are doing it even as we speak, it is easy when you are given trillions of nearly free money AND they hold on to it and not make the loans necessary because THEIR advisors on the inside are telling their CEO's that the recession is still on and will get worse so hoard that cash in order to ride out the next phase of the contraction.  A penny saved is a penny earned.....or in this case TRILLIONS OF FREE PENNIES SAVED.......Not to mention they are not showing all the trash houses and where near.  They don't have to book that loss just yet because they are still looking to mark those shitholes with Mark to Fantasy prices.  Book no evil, report no evil.

Employment better?  Better in terms of the number 9.1 % vs 10+%.  Average time someone is unemployed, second highest ever and climbing every month.  When unemployment is measured as they did before all the phoney baloney are right at Depression Era levels.  Not to mention that work force participation is at historical lows and dropping like a rock.

Negative GDP in 2008....Read my post again, I said 2007 at the height of the delusion.  And what makes you think we are not at negative GDP right now?  THe government told you so?  Wake up!  2.5% of any GDP number is government spending.  So if there is a 2.0 GDP print then subtract 2.5% due to government spending and you will arrive at the organic, private sector GDP which in this example would be -.5%  A couple of quarters of this and you have a "textbook" recession.  Now here is some homework....go back and look at all the REVISED GDP prints for the last couple of quarters and subtract 2,5% from each one to see what the real economy is doing and get back with me.

You told me to stop fucking BS Doom.....It's not DOOM if you realistically know what is the truth and are prepared for it.  It may be DOOM to you and your deluded lifestyle. 

Keep religion out of this.  Capitalism is not a religion.  Americanism is not a religion.  Free markets are not a religion.  They are simply human constructs prone to corruption.  You can not DOOM talk an economy into recession or depression if it is properly operating and strong.  We have neither in this economy.  Get off the is truly as deluding as only masks the underlying corruption and degradation of the host.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:34 | 1546993 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

+1 "The banks are the sovereigns."

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 14:02 | 1547380 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Thanks for the opportunity to fade this diseased corpse of a market, Sock Puppets!

You're doing fine work, comrades. Every bounce is a gift!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 18:31 | 1548812 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:38 | 1546602 eurusdog
eurusdog's picture

And another day with a new high in gold!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:45 | 1546659 FranSix
FranSix's picture

Wall St. was bailed out.  It all went smoothly.  Now the European taxpayers money will be subsidizing Wall St. this time around.  Time to plan for Christmas bonuses.

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:49 | 1546677 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Dirt Dog gonna make you SCREAM!


Silver to $40 -> $66 -> Parabolic!


Gold tests 1790 level before Bernank can't smoke its dust. 


Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:50 | 1546710 franzpick
franzpick's picture

Sheesh: There's $1798.  Trading top at 1800, or climb the wall of worry right into the 18 handle?

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 11:55 | 1546754 toady
toady's picture

Gold 1800

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:00 | 1546792 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture


Surpassing platinum

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:09 | 1546861 toady
toady's picture

1800 scared them... Leveling off slightly lower...

The day is still young!

Wed, 08/10/2011 - 12:03 | 1546809 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

Adblocker works.

Adblocker kills the (ad-based) internet going forward?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!