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Guest Notes From The Sales Desk - A Few Thoughts On The Occupy Wall Street Movement

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Fri, 10/14/2011 - 15:28 | 1774883 Melin
Melin's picture

Neat! If you squat to make a statement on a Brookfield property, you get the bonus of Brookfield voluntarily transferring their property rights to you!

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 15:59 | 1775010 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

Give me a break, this "movement" has about as much permanance as a bowel movement.  Less than .00001% are actively involved.

Here in Philly, I was returning from a 10 mile run and encountered the "masses" of the Occupy Philadelphia crowd at City Hall.  Ten hobo looking hipster dirtbags behind a table of peanut butter sandwiches and bottles of water.  Being quite thirsty I took a bottle and kept moving.

I know this was a weekday and the "movement" swells to the dozens on the weekend and REALLY looks impressive.  Yea Roight!

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 16:01 | 1775030 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

You took their water and drank the LSD. 

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 17:22 | 1775365 Cynical Sidney
Cynical Sidney's picture

"Ten hobo looking hipster dirtbags behind a table of peanut butter sandwiches and bottles of water.  Being quite thirsty I took a bottle and kept moving"  --- Clueless Economist

haha taking bottled water from hobos, you are as clueless as your name suggests

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 13:27 | 1777157 Stares straight...
Stares straight ahead's picture

I don't see the problem here.  the hipster hobos are advocating the redistribution of wealth and resources.  Our clueless economist did exactly that. They had water, she had none.

Hurts, doesn't it?

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 16:13 | 1775048 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

the  occupy youtube channel............hundreds and hundreds of videos.........

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/occupytv#g/p

 

how about we start "occupy the recycling of petrodollars"..........because you can end the fed........but until you end the recycling of petrodollars you have not accomplished anything..........

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 13:09 | 1777124 PAUL LEO FASO
PAUL LEO FASO's picture

Exactly, crash the party they got going on; File class action lawsuit against the Fed and get the money back, see plan below link or google: CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT AGAINST THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/print/365866

 

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 16:07 | 1775057 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Nice comment.

Next time you complain against Fed, or bailouts to Wall Street, I'll take comment with grain of salt. You obviously could give a shit about this country. But you take the water. LOL! Scumbag.

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 16:08 | 1775061 greenfire
greenfire's picture

Wow.   Those hobo looking hipster dirtbags just pale in comparison to your cunning, prowess and bold initiative doesn't they?  You running ten miles, them just standing there expressing their opinion. I am in awe.  It's just like giving out loans to people that can't afford them. Pigs to the slaughter. Your innovative nature will surely allow you to soar, while they wallow in self-deserving abject poverty. 

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 13:33 | 1777170 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture

And while we are at it, Clueless, How about those one hundred thousand homeless veterens..I bet they don't look as spiffy as you in your jogging outfit..No respect for your sh*t here...

 

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 16:14 | 1775083 gringo28
gringo28's picture

the whole world is watching our homegrown "revolutionaries" armed with....uhhhh....iPhones.

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 16:19 | 1775097 gringo28
gringo28's picture

finally, some real rain here in NYC to wash away the shitty art in Zuccotti and perhaps bring a little hypothermia so these morons can OccupyTheHospitalBeds next....

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 16:40 | 1775207 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

iPhones can bring revolution. Look at social media and Egypt. Glad they have iPhones to organize and plan next step. You're obviously el stupido.

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 16:42 | 1775218 Dasa Slooofoot
Dasa Slooofoot's picture

Guess you missed last weeks 60 minutes relook at the twitter revolution in Egypt. 

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 16:55 | 1775273 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

I did miss it, but doesn't take away point, We organize with phones now. Hello? Hola?

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 17:33 | 1775410 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yeah, the Coptics are really diggin on it.

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 21:53 | 1776035 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

nmewn, not directly directed at you... sorry, replied here.

Flash Mob?  Broadcast device?  Receiver for important announcements?  Video recorder?  Communication device?  Alert others of arrest?  Beat back police with device?  Stop bullets with device? last 2 are a joke obviously, but the phones are really indispensable today, in todays revolution...

Twitter and all that crap is just temporary, we have people working on networks / apps / protection.  I heard some unverified rumors that someone hacked three rally sites... Philly / Boston / or some such.  The same time, police were apparently making a raid on one rally site somewhere.

We know they're pissed off.  We know the authorities have infiltrated the organization / rallies.  We are using technology to facilitate the protest, same as internet allowed for broader communication.  We are trying to work on redundant technologies so if they take down the backbone, we can still communicate.

Smart phones are a useful tool. There is nothing precious about them, and people who use them and protest are not disingenuous.  Noone said they want to live in the dark ages, they said they don't want to live under corporate greed, and financial corruption. 

Don't some of you losers have someone to rob?

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 08:28 | 1776681 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Ranger,

You guys are protesting the financial sector for taking taxpayer bailouts only it appears to me.

You are not protesting public sector unions whose members also recieved "bailout" money through the 878 billion dollar "shovel ready" jobs act. This came through the states from the federal government.

You are also not protesting tenured college professors who kept their jobs through the same vehicle. You are also not protesting "green energy" which is a cesspool of crony capitalism.

It rings hollow to me.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 09:38 | 1776736 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

Actually, there are many different protests in one Nmewn.  I am not in control of any of the people expressing their views, but I have what I consider to be informed and thoughtful opinions on a vast array of the economy and I tend to think in terms of future.  I discuss these with people as I encounter them, and some understand some don't.

My opinion is that the economy is supposed to be at the service of everyone.  I don't have a problem with Unions per se, I think they are now mostly irrelevant.  When automation kicked in during the 60's, that was the death knell of the Union, because it was the death knell of jobs also.  Unions are by definition, protectors of jobs, but what we needed was organizations which worked to protect human security, not job security.  See, there's nothing wrong with automation and loss of jobs, as long as you transition society from a jobs oriented structure to a surplus society structure. We did not, which is why there is such upheaval today, and it wil only get much worse as we proceed.  Machines will replace us in the tedious jobs we perform now, and we can fight it or adapt.

I am not advocating for lazy loafers of any sort, government or corporate.  My proposal for an automated society requires that everyone who is alive be given food / shelter / clothing and many other goods, and that requires in return Action from the recipient.  Look at life like a PHD, work out a thesis and follow through.  Automation does not need to lead to lack of choices...computerization / algorithms can be employed to create custom machine made items if we just set aside the cost idea.... automation will eventually lead to loss of money... it won't be necessary.  People will be enlisted to work on technology / engineering / design / research problems.  Education will still be required, but it will be free.  You will be required to be productive in some manner that is beneficial to society, and your own self esteem will drive you to be productive.  So will a revised educational system which reinforces creativity, independent thinking, innovation, etc. 

I am genuine.  I don't know about the others.  Some might be misguided, some may be delusional. It is a society afterall.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 10:13 | 1776768 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well, I'm almost speechless.

"My proposal for an automated society requires that everyone who is alive be given food / shelter / clothing and many other goods,..."

Given to them by whom? I already know the answer...but I want to hear it from you.

"...and that requires in return Action from the recipient."

Really?

And if they choose to not participate in this brand new centrally planned economy...what is to become of them? What is the value of a poet...musician...film maker...and who or what assigns it?

This has already been tried and the results were devastating to the common people.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 10:28 | 1776787 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

You already live in that world... you do not make your own food, your own car, your own money, your own anything.  You do a few things and that "earns" you the other things.  You just don't realize that the "money" is the only thing different between what I said and what you think you do.  And I will not try to convince you that capitalism is not to the benefit of anyone except the oppressors. 

 

What was tried was to force people into labor camps where surplus was to be extracted from manual labor.  They were forced into certain trades by a psychologically corrupt leadership.  Stop reacting and start thinking.  What system could overcome the problems encountered in the former communist states? How about Leaderless governance?  How about using technology to liberate people from labor camps?  How about working on increasing productivity from farming?  How about teaching people how to do Urban farming?

 

I am not talking about a society that is full of takers, I am talking about a society where basic needs are met by technology, so that we can concentrate our efforts on better / more important things than competition among each other... we can cooperate and build the space ships to travel the universe, we can work together to create renewable enery sources so we can all live free of energy tyranny, we can end resource based aggressions.

 

Plus, I take into account the likelihood that we will run out of fresh water, oil, food, etc if we do not start working on purification, alternate energy, farming in more imaginative ways.  No one said the food has to come from a central repository... the community I see asks people to grow some of their own food in vertical farms.  Imagine buildings where some of your home is a dedicated greenhouse by design.

 

Anyway, I do not want to return to your past.  I want to proceed towards my future.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 08:17 | 1788290 BigJim
BigJim's picture

...You just don't realize that the "money" is the only thing different between what I said and what you think you do. 

No, the big difference is that you're advocating that economic decisions be made not on the basis of price discovery but by some kind, loving, all-knowing Big Brother(s) - ie, politically. There's no difference between your vision and the visions (or, at least, the urgings) of all communist revolutionaries. Food, clean water, shelter, education... none of these things just arises out of nowhere, they have to be created, and that takes capital. Which leads us to your next statement...

And I will not try to convince you that capitalism is not to the benefit of anyone except the oppressors.

Chum, someone has to organize the surplus wealth that is used to fund capital projects. Unless you want to live life as a nomad, there has to be excess wealth - ie, capital to pay for projects that produce everything we need to live anything richer than a neolithic standard of living. ie, capitalism has existed in some form for millennia. So the key point is: who controls that surplus wealth? Private individuals on behalf of willing investors, or bureaucrats who raise it through coercion? At the moment, we're much closer to the latter than the former, and that's why we're in the parlous state we're in.

What was tried was to force people into labor camps where surplus was to be extracted from manual labor.  They were forced into certain trades by a psychologically corrupt leadership.

Ah, yes, it was all the leadership's fault. Not the system that encouraged and allowed control-freaks to assume leadership positions - that is to say, any system that enables people to be coerced into working for the collective.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 11:06 | 1776854 Blankman
Blankman's picture

Ranger - you are assuming that everyone is equal in intelligence and in drive.  They are not.

 

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 11:28 | 1776886 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

No, in fact I am not.  I am well aware some are less intelligent than others, less capable than others, less whatever than others.

 

It is You who is assuming that you are entitled to something more because of intelligence, drive, capability, etc.  Has it occurred to You that being intelligent, driven, capable, etc are uncontrollable genetic / physiological / biological conditions that people should not be penalized for, any more than they should be for skin color or sexual preference?

 

I doubt it has.

 

I will make 1 assumption for you... I will assume that you would not be so quick to defend the corrupt system if it was You who was a dim witted slave of African decent during the 1700 / 1800's.  I bet you would not like that economic model too much.  How about the racially divided world of the 1950's?  How about that intelligence of yours?

 

I really do believe in this dictum, but honestly, I didn't know it was Marx until I just looked it up.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need".  Except in the society I believe we can construct Need will be replaced by Want, because we can produce much more than we currently do, and there need be no shortages.  Why own a yacht if you can just use one when you feel like it?  Why own a fancy car when you can just use one when you feel like it.  If you feel like using it 365 days a year, so be it.  Fine.  Think for god's sake, don't just react.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 15:39 | 1777386 diesheepledie
diesheepledie's picture

OMG a true Marxist? Newsflash. This theory does not work, for the simple reason it goes against nature. Nature will snuff out those who try and implement this illogical system; usually with great violence.

"It is You who is assuming that you are entitled to something more because of intelligence, drive, capability, etc."

Entitlement has nothing to do with. I will TAKE more because of my superior intelligence, drive, and capability. And I will thrive and produce offspring that have similar traits. And because of your lack of these things, you will not thrive, or produce offspring of any quality.

That's how nature works. Sorry.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 18:45 | 1777582 nmewn
Sun, 10/16/2011 - 12:46 | 1778883 Blankman
Blankman's picture

Ranger - by your logic a mental retard should be allowed to: a) own a handgun, b) pick out a ferrari and drive it as fast as he likes c) take a yacht out on the ocean for a pleasure cruise.  All three will get this person or someone else killed.  And you tell me to think don't just react.

 

In response to you trying to break this down into some sort of damned racial fight:  no I am not black.  I (barely finished high school, however i am more well read than most) am the son of what you might consider an above intelligence father who was the son of german immigrant farmers (circa 1910), who were the sons of german farmers, who were.....  I do not understand the argument of people who jump into the way back machine and try to argue that if I was this or that 200 years ago I would be this or that now.  I do not live in those worlds and those who wish to remain in them can have them.  For the most part anyone with even limited abilities can seperate themselves from the herd should they choose to throw off the shackles that bind them (mentally and emotionally).  

 

Because I have chosen by my drive to read books, study human psychology and listen to achievements and mistakes of my peers as opposed to sitting on my ass watching television I should be greatful to some bum on the street who wants to take my car for a ride simply because he has a want to.  Here is what will happen should your plan ever be implemented, I along with all the other hard working people in the world will see no need to produce these goods and services and then where would that leave you.  Don't get me wronog if I had the choice (and the money) I would rather be sitting on the beach drinking ice cold beer all day long under a bamboo handled giant umbrella.  But at this point in my life I can not do that.  Heres to that umbrella!   

Sun, 10/16/2011 - 18:31 | 1779520 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

What?  So you are well read, driven, and successful. So what?  Why do you need to make the determination that you are "better" and "more deserving" than someone else?  You should stick to your books... you still have a lot to learn.  Look, this is about ideas that have been present as undercurrents throughout history.  There is a reason for that.  Think about it instead of hating.  Why do so many people throughout history go out on a limb to be charitable or utopian?  Kind heart.  Why so many kind hearts?  WHY NOT?  You are relying on history to determine that you would lose by participating in a new classless economy. You don't use your imagination, innovation, superior intelligence to try to find a way to make it possible.  WHY?  Is it possible that you are not as imaginative / innovative / smart as you think you are?  All I'm saying is, for god's sake, there are other ways, and there are people suffering, so why not look for ways to end their suffering. How fiucking dare you greedy bastards deem me to be the dim witted one, when it is you who is closed minded and repeating only history over and over, to the benefit of the people at the top of the fucking pyramid. Do you also think the Caste system in India is sound?  How about the Slave trade?  How about Sweat Shops?  How about Colonialism?  How about Nobility?  How about the demise of your very society?

 

I never said hand the keys to a ferrarri or yacht to a mental retard, but I see the demented game you're trying to play, and I won't entertain that sort of unreasonableness.

Sun, 10/16/2011 - 21:14 | 1779916 Blankman
Blankman's picture

We are all in sweat shops, its just I am not as sweaty as some.

 

As for charitable donations and suffering  I only give (money and time) to children, not adults.  Hospitals to be exact and a good amount.  I will not fund adult sycophancy nor will I fund adult patronage nor adult hand outs.  Kids are always our best hope.  

 

There will never be a classless society unless we are all automatons.  I feel, I breathe, I wish, I love, I hate.  Try taking that away from humanity.

I know you want the whole thing to implode, well so do I.  You see I am from the "When the going gets weird the weird turn pro" philosophy.  Quite frankly I am rather bored in this world.  If the whole thing turned upside down don't you realize it would be people like me who would take over your local regions.  God help us if that ever really happens;)  I really don't have rhyme nor reason, I just flow.  One day I am sympathizing with hippies, peace lova nad all that, the next I am hoping the whole world blows up.  Do I know myself ... yes.  Too well (slightly sociopathic, slightly homeopathic, all around good guy).  I know damn well that if status quo ever was breached it would immediately be people like me who would step in to fill the vacuum.  Be careful what you wish for.  

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 08:23 | 1788303 BigJim
BigJim's picture

...What?  So you are well read, driven, and successful. So what?  Why do you need to make the determination that you are "better" and "more deserving" than someone else? 

That's the whole point. He doesn't believe he's better or more deserving than someone else - his customers/employers do, and they show it by paying him for his services.

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 09:38 | 1801530 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

One would not accept or keep the "surplus" if they did not inherently believe they were deserving, entitled to it.  Most people think and argue that they're entitled to a certain level of profit / advantage / compensation above others (baseline) because they work harder than others, because they are smarter than others, because they're more driven, they're "better" people. 

I'm saying that these conditions are not dictated by the individual and are rather imbued by nature (inherent qualities at birth) or nurtured (cultural conditioning).  In every case, uncontrollable physiological / biological / ontological systems determine the effects.  These are random events and do not speak of the greatness of anyone.  Think about taking medicine... how it affects you is unknown until you take it, that's because these physiological / biological conditions determine how the medicine will interact with your body.  The same is true of the cause and effect of input / output from the brain, neuroreceptors, chemicals in the brain, neural network, etc... and no matter how much you want to build strength, you can only achieve the build / strength that you are born capable of.

Therefore, compensation because of the random events of a life are in my opinion, ridiculous.  And what I am trying to make clear is that all human actions are random at this level.  What various intellectuals have been trying to explain to the world is that there is no control over whether you're driven, a workaholic, self-serving, a jerk, a brilliant business person, a devout ascetic, a strong brute, whatever.  These are random qualities.  Regardless of your intentions, the body / chemicals / events conspire to shape you in ways which are unpredictable to a great degree.

I'm saying to rethink the idea that someone is worthy of more regardless of whether the customer offered it or the seller demanded it.

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 23:43 | 1776252 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

hey,nmewn, got a good one for you...

its about your avitar...

i went to the holloween store to get a costume for my girlfriend, shes going as GENIE to our emp. parties...

i saw a couple of those V for vendetta masks for sale..

asked the salesgirl how many have they sold this season..

500+, its our most popular mask, she said...

500+, from one store, in a small city...

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 08:15 | 1776672 nmewn
nmewn's picture

It does seem popular these days. Some use it for the true reason...others, not so much ;-)

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 18:53 | 1775625 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

So you and Mubarak determined a crowd of disorganized people in a square couldn't lead to anything?

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 16:44 | 1775231 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

... No, you are el stupido.

And since I said it last, I've said it best...

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 16:41 | 1775211 Dasa Slooofoot
Dasa Slooofoot's picture

I see CE is getting junked, but to take the scale of OWS into perspective, NYC has what, 10 million people and there are maybe 1,000 people prostesting.

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 17:15 | 1775345 HedgeCock
HedgeCock's picture

Is that Joe Giudice as your avatar pic?  

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 17:53 | 1775472 Dasa Slooofoot
Dasa Slooofoot's picture

Yes.  The originator of "Happy wife, happy life." 

 

The man is a philosopher king.

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 17:25 | 1775382 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

Probably still a record number for number of people protesting that long since VietNam war ended.

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 17:55 | 1775478 Dasa Slooofoot
Dasa Slooofoot's picture

people protesting that long

 

Regardless of numbers, they are resilient.  That is true. 

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 18:54 | 1775628 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

Yes and there wasn't many Bolsheviks in the beginning or even by the time they took over.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 09:48 | 1776746 Stares straight...
Stares straight ahead's picture

Even longer if you consider their intellect allows them to experience life in dog years!

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 17:23 | 1775374 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

 It's hard to take seriously the predictions of someone that couldn't predict they would get thirsty running 10 miles.

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 17:53 | 1775473 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

Hahah, +1. It also probably never occured WHY these people became hobos either. But c'mon, what's more important, freedom of speech and assembly, or freedom to spend all day burning off the bon bons you ate last night so somebody will want to hit it. Just give the masses each a hamster wheel, problem solved for Wall St.

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 20:35 | 1775864 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

10 mile run....you fucking homo!

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 20:50 | 1775899 Ag Star
Ag Star's picture

Then you went home, slapped your kid and kicked your dog.  And of course sat on your lazy ass and watched the propaganda tube

while complaining about everything and everyone.

 

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 21:20 | 1775973 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Very apt handle     Milestonwes

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 21:39 | 1776006 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

"... I took a bottle and kept moving."

 

This is why the country is in the shit.  This is why the world is in shit.  I really can't fucking believe your gall.  I hope we never have the opportunity to meet, I detest selfish people.

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 23:30 | 1776232 VyseLegendaire
VyseLegendaire's picture

Fuck you. 

Sun, 10/16/2011 - 09:52 | 1778636 thewhitelion
thewhitelion's picture

Great point!  They should have started with, like, 50% odf the population. (That was sarcasm Clueless)

I began revolution with 82 men. If I had To do it again, I do it with 10 or 15 and absolute faith. It does not matter how small you are if you have faith and plan of action. 

~Fidel Castro

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