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Guest Post: “The Sequel”: How 2011 Is A Repeat of 2008—Only Bigger, Longer, and Uncut by Bailouts

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Submitted by Gonzalo Lira

Guest Post: “The Sequel”: How 2011 Is A Repeat of 2008—Only Bigger, Longer, and Uncut by Bailouts

I might have missed it, but I don’t think anyone has noticed this simple truism:

The structural causes that led to the Global Financial Crisis of 2008 are identical to the structural causes that are leading us to another systemic financial crisis in 2011.

You saw this one already?

The only difference is the kind of debt at the core of the looming crisis: Mortgage-backed securities in 2008, as opposed to European sovereign debt in 2011.

And of course, the debt hole in 2011 is bigger than in 2008—a lot bigger.

That’s why I am confident in predicting we are about to have another Global Financial Crisis—I’m calling it The Sequel: Same movie, same players, same story. Only this time around—like all good sequels—the financial crisis we are about to experience is going to be bigger, longer, and uncut by bailouts.

By the way, that is the key difference between 2008 and 2011: We’re not going to have a Hollywood Ending this time around. The governments of Europe and the United States, as well as their respective central banks, do not have any weapons to fight off this 2011 financial crisis, as they did in 2008, for the simple reason that they used them all up—they’re out of bullets, both monetarily and politically.

So when The Sequel hits the big screen, there won’t be a Big Daddy Government deus ex machina to come save the day in the third act twist. When The Sequel hits, we’re on our own.

Let’s discuss the structural similarities between the original and The Sequel:

In both 2008 and now 2011, you had unpayable debts at the center of a fragile financial system. In 2008, it was mortgage backed securities and collateralized debt obligations—the so-called “toxic assets”. I think we all know that story pretty well.

In 2011, we have European sovereign debt. And just like the toxic assets of 2008, the Euro-bonds might have been rated AAA, but they certainly aren’t blue-chip—they are more like brown-chip: That deep brown color peculiar to fast-sinking dog-turds.

In both 2008 and 2011, these unpayable debts—emitted over many years, accumulating silently and asymptomatically like plaque in the arteries—gave a false sense of prosperity in the years leading up to the respective crises.

In the lead up to 2008, the MBS’s and CDO’s gave the American homeowner a sense that their house was their personal private ATM sitting on their quarter-acre suburban lot. They also were a profit spigot for the financial sector, which bouyed the U.S. GDP growth, leading to a false sense of national prosperity, even as there were signs that the non-financial sector of the economy was diving.

In the lead up to 2011, on the other hand, the sovereign debt of the eurozone countries gave the European citizens a sense that they could afford to buy all the imported goods they could ever want, as well as the sense that their government could afford to pay for all the social welfare programs they were all promised—without having to pay for any of this by way of higher taxes. Hell, that was the entire Labour governments’ platform between 1997 and 2010: Blair and Brown gave the UK a welfare state and low taxes—all paid for with sovereign debt.

In both 2008 and 2011, you have banks exposed to these bad debts both directly and indirectly—and this exposure in 2011 threatens to topple the entire financial structure, just as it almost did in 2008.

In 2008, the financial institutions with direct exposure to the toxic assets—that is, the institutions that actually owned these crap bonds that would never be paid in full—were mostly American banks. Their capitalization depended on how pristine these toxic assets were. As it became increasingly clear that the toxic assets were exactly that—toxic—the banks holding this crap found themselves not only without the capitalization to pass regulatory muster, but in fact found themselves functionally insolvent—hence the suspension of FASB 157, coupled with the injection of $150 billion worth of capital by way of TARP.

In 2011, the financial institutions with direct exposure to toxic assets—in this case, the European sovereign bonds, especially from the PIIGS—are once again banks, this time around mostly European banks: UniCredit, Société Générale, Dexia.

Like 2008, these assets might be rated triple-A, but they’re dog-turds—and they threaten these banks with insolvency, if any of them default. A bankruptcy of any of the aforementioned European banks would have massive consequences for the rest of the global financial construct—it would not be a Europe-only problem, just as the bankruptcy of Lehman was most definitely not an America-only catastrophe.

And that’s just the direct exposure to the 2011 version of toxic assets.

The real danger in 2011 is the indirect exposure—that is, the liabilities that are triggered in the case of a debt default: Just like 2008.

In 2008, it was AIG and other assorted credit default swap sellers that got hit bad, when the toxic assets began to default—we all remember how the very ground we trod rocked as AIG stumbled and everybody had a collective nuclear-meltdown freak-out.

In 2011—you guessed it—it’s worse: We have Bank of America for sure has massive exposure to derivatives on European sovereign and debt, as well as . . . God Knows who else.

Why do I say “God Knows who else”? Because just like in 2008, the derivatives market is so opaque—not to say hermetic—that we are not going to know who’s going to go bust until it actually happens. In 2008, Hank Paulson and the Treasury Department didn’t find out about the AIG hole until the weekend before the company would go bust. Today, in 2011—even with the experience of how potentially deadly ignorance of the derivatives markets can be—there are no mechanisms in place to swiftly and accurately tally who has derivatives exposure to any particular bond or asset.

In other words, Tiny Timmy and Bailout Benny never implemented the one lesson learned from 2008: Make the markets transparent, so that you can see where the crisis is coming from before it falls on top of your head.

Thus they—and we collectively—are flying blind insofar as derivatives written on the European sovereign debt. We only know about BofA’s massive CDS exposure indirectly, through Timothy Geithner’s demand in December 2010 that Ireland not default, because of the massive losses an Irish sovereign default on BofA.

Bernanke and Geithner had the chance to regulate this vital piece of the financial markets—but they didn’t! Instead, they acquiesced to this ridiculous pseudo-“ideology” that we should not regulate the financial markets.

(Parenthetically, and speaking as a hard-core, anti-choice, anti-vegan, pro-gun, pro-red meat Conservative: I am sick and tired of the ignorant assholes who say, “All government regulation is bad! Let the free markets reign!” We have the government regulate various industries and products because it is necessary for our individual and collective safety—or would you rather the government never regulated, say, the water supply, car safety standards, housing standards? Would you prefer it if the FDIC ceased to exist, and your local S&L could go to Vegas and play the roulette wheel with your life savings? Certainly not. Not only do we need government regulation for safety standards, we need regulations to prevent unscrupulous exploiters from gaming the system—think Enron, which should have put paid to any ridiculous notion that “the market knows best”, but obviously hasn’t (or else I wouldn’t be ranting here): The Enronites of the “energy trading desks” exploited the free markets and the lack of government regulation in the so-called “energy markets”, and deliberately created rolling blackouts in California so as to gouge the people of that state for the electricity they already owned and which they should have been getting, but which the Enron bastards were manipulating in order to squeeze them for money. Insofar as the financial markets are concerned, anyone spouting that particular bullshit spiel about the markets knowing best is either a shill for the banks, or a complete and utter imbecile. And a bank shill at least has the excuse of needing to pay the mortgage in exchange for spouting this nonsensical bullshit—the imbecile does not.)

Now, I used to write for the movies—I can tell you the secret to writing a good sequel: Use the exact same elements, the exact same story structure—hell, even use the exact same lines!—but make sure the sequel is bigger: Bigger sets, bigger explosions, bigger stars, bigger everything—a bigger bang for the buck.

2011’s The Sequel is certainly going to deliver that bigger bang—because it’s a lot bigger than 2008: The total sovereign debt of the PIIGS is about €3.1 trillion. That’s 20% of the eurozone’s GDP—just the PIIGS, just those five, forget about France, Belgium and the UK, which if added up easily doubles that €3.1 trillion figure.

Compare that to 2008, when the total toxic assets the Federal Reserve wound up having to buy amounted to about $1.5 trillion—about 11.5% of the U.S.’s 2008 GDP.

In other words, the current situation is over twice what 2008 was—and might wind up being four times the 2008 price tag. And that’s just the nominal value of the toxic debt at the core of the current situation. We have no idea what the total value of the indirect exposure via derivatives is going to add up to.

So! We’ve seen that we’re structurally at the same place we were in 2008: Unpayable debts held by a fragile financial sector, with massive indirect exposure by way of derivatives that no one has bothered to tally up and regulate.

We have furthermore seen that—like all good sequels—2011 is going to have a bigger bang: We currently have more debts on deck than in 2008, at least twice as much, as a matter of fact.

Question: Why does teasing out these similarities matter?

Answer: Because it will allow us to see what will happen over the months of September and October, when the crisis breaks.

What we’ve seen over the last couple of weeks is not the crisis—or not the crisis, at any rate. We’ve seen Italian and Spanish debt drop, their yields spiking—we’ve seen gold run up to $1,820—we’ve seen the biggest drops in the US equities markets since 2008—

—but these gyrations are not The Sequel. Rather, these last couple of weeks of market gyrations have been the forewarnings—the pre-tremors. Anyone who’s lived in earthquake country knows about them: The little tremors and hiccoughs that precede The Big One.

The Sequel will actually get going once we have our Lehman-like event.

In 2008, the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers triggered the crash—but it was not the cause of the Global Financial Crisis of 2008: The structural weaknesses were already baked into the situation—the Lehman bankruptcy was just the shove the global financial system needed to fall off the proverbial cliff.

Today, we are waiting for the Lehman-like event. My personal guess is Dexia will be the first to go under, the Lehman-like event that will trigger The Sequel—but that’s just a guess. More likely than not, the Lehman-like event of 2011 will catch us all by surprise—but just like the Lehman bankruptcy, it won’t matter intrinsically: It’ll only matter insofar as it triggers the cascade of panic-default-bankruptcies, etc.

Be that as it may, at my paid site, The Strategic Planning Group, we’ve been discussing what to do, when The Sequel hits. I won’t bother recapitulating what I’ve written there—frankly, it’s too long, and besides, the details are why the SPG Members pay their dues.

The one issue I will discuss here is the notion of a safe haven:

In 2008, when all the stock markets were going south, and all the name-brand banks were teetering, where did everyone park their money? What was the safe haven?

Treasury bonds. In fact, the flight to safety was so massive that Treasuries reached negative yields, when you factored for inflation.

Treasuries are the traditional American safe haven. But what with the recent spate of, er, questionable events (Debt celing conniption fit, anyone?), Treasuries aren’t looking as safe as they used to, nevermind the (cosmetic) S&P downgrade of their Treasuries rating.

But this isn’t an American crisis—this is a European crisis that will have catastrophic consequences in America—but the epicenter will be Europe.

What’s the safe haven in Europe? Gold.

In fact, in Europe, sovereign bonds have never been considered a “safe haven”, for the simple reason that sovereign debt in Europe has countless times suffered haircuts, defaults, outright national bankruptcies.

Since this will be a European sovereign debt crisis that will spread around the globe—but the epicenter of which will of course be in Europe—bankers and asset managers will pull their cash—euros—out of whatever they think is risky, and park it in some safe haven.

These European money men obviously cannot sell their assets and buy US Treasury bonds with those euros that they get. And they certainly won’t plug those euros into European sovereign debt, which is exactly the source of the panic. They won’t even park those euros in German bunds, for fear of contagion.

Therefore, it is reasonable to infer that, if and when there is a Lehman-like event in Europe that triggers The Sequel, the flight to safety will be to gold, which Europeans traditionally see as a financial refuge as surely as Americans consider Treasuries their financial refuge.

Hence in my estimation, gold will rocket on. I would not be surprised if gold crosses $2,000 an ounce when the Lehman-like event happens, and goes on quickly to $2,500 before the end of the year. On my scale of augury, this is head-and-shoulders above a Strong Hunch, just shy of a Fearless Prediction: $2,500 by the New Year’s. After that?


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Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:01 | 1562979 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

little timmie says to zog congress. 


we need 3 trillion or there is going to be riots in the streets.............

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:05 | 1562993 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Free preloaded $1,000,000 debit cards for everyone that shows up to riot IF you go back home.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:33 | 1563060 drink or die
drink or die's picture

What happens if they run out of cards?  Would that make the rioting better or worse?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:46 | 1563086 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

nice joke.

they can't run out of cards.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:49 | 1563099 spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture


I maintain until we get an oil shock or an import collapse (sparked by yuan flotation, or the dollar losing its reserve currency status) that this is still more like japan in the 90s. 

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:45 | 1563282 macholatte
macholatte's picture

Investment tips for 2011


For all of you with any money left, be aware of the next expected mergers so that you can get in on the ground floor and make some BIG bucks. Watch for these consolidations later on this year:


1.) Hale Business Systems, Mary Kay Cosmetics, Fuller Brush, and W R. Grace Co. Will merge and become: Hale, Mary, Fuller, Grace.


2.) Polygram Records, Warner Bros., and Zesta Crackers join forces and become: Poly, Warner Cracker.


3.) 3M will merge with Goodyear and become: MMMGood.


4. Zippo Manufacturing, Audi Motors, Dofasco, and Dakota Mining will merge and become: ZipAudiDoDa.


5. FedEx is expected to join its competitor, UPS, and become: FedUP.


6. Fairchild Electronics and Honeywell Computers will become: Fairwell Honeychild.


7. Grey Poupon and Docker Pants are expected to become: PouponPants.


8. Knotts Berry Farm and the National Organization of Women will become: Knott NOW!


And finally...


9. Victoria 's Secret and Smith & Wesson will merge under the new name: TittyTittyBangBang



Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:53 | 1563302 TwelfthVulture
TwelfthVulture's picture


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:16 | 1563385 andybev01
andybev01's picture

For the win :-)

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:25 | 1563417 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

"For all of you with any money left..."

Ummmm, if there is indeed anyone that has any money left allow me please to say, if you have calculated a positive net worth for your personal financial situation do not forget to add in your fair share of the state, local, federal, and corporate debts, because there is not going to simply be a jubilee.  Some would argue that corporate debt does not belong on the list but I say it does since one way or another it is we out there in the economy that gets to pay the prices they charge for goods and services which include corporate debt service. 

In aggregate those debts come to about 60 trillion dollars, and a fair share is determined by dividing this amount by the number of people that are either working but not in poverty, because remember there are millions of workers that are in poverty, or not working but with substantial (non farm) assets.  I will take a wild stab at it and say that some 80 million are in this category.  60,000,000,000,000.00/80,000,000=$600,000 per.  So if you think you have a positive net worth you might need to subtract 600,000 and see if that still leaves you with anything. 

I am only really saying that there is absolutely no way this debt can be paid down either by growth in the economy or population.  Even at low interest rates it is still so monstrous that it grows beyond our ability to ever get control of it.  And note I did not even include the tens of trillions in household debt because you already know what your share of that burden is.  There is one way out and it will be the path we go down, it will be the Zimbabwe solution, the yenization, the Turkish Lira path.  And it will carry disastrous consequences that will leave us a hollow constitution and no freedoms at all.  It will reduce 99% of us to poverty, of course there will always be our fabulously rich 1%. 

Zombie households, zombie companies, zombie governments, food shortages in the USA, it is coming.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:36 | 1563461 macholatte
macholatte's picture

Zombie Citizens ..... not only in America

Mother of 13-year-old who smashed up shop blames government

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 20:19 | 1563554 pelican
pelican's picture

It isn't the goverment's fault either.  The little girl was in training to be an investiment banker.



Mon, 08/15/2011 - 21:22 | 1563660 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Perhaps the riots are a test of the 'broken window fallacy'?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 22:28 | 1563787 JW n FL
Mon, 08/15/2011 - 22:30 | 1563792 JW n FL
Mon, 08/15/2011 - 21:22 | 1563664 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

+++++  LoL!

if Knott NOW merged w/ Sue Bee, they could put out everybody's fave:  Knott NOW Honey

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 22:23 | 1563777 piceridu
piceridu's picture

"She is on benefits, does not live with the boy's father and has 10 other children, the court heard".

Welcome to the American futurama.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 22:29 | 1563790 JW n FL
Fri, 08/19/2011 - 07:05 | 1576292 BigJim
BigJim's picture

What a depressing video.

Tue, 08/16/2011 - 01:41 | 1564331 Jasper M
Jasper M's picture

Lol, well Done, sir!

Tue, 08/16/2011 - 06:12 | 1564552 ToInfinityAndBeyond
ToInfinityAndBeyond's picture


Tue, 08/16/2011 - 11:20 | 1565353 DavidC
DavidC's picture

Very, very good! One of the best I've seen on ZH!


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:17 | 1563176 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

They will print Aces until Aces are so plentiful that the game loses meaning.  Anyone smart should quit before they lose their chips.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:32 | 1563242 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture


Tue, 08/16/2011 - 01:03 | 1564257 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture
Feral Capitalism Hits the Streets

Feral Capitalism Hits the Streets
by David Harvey
11 August 2011

“Nihilistic and feral teenagers” the Daily Mail called them: the crazy youths from all walks of life who raced around the streets mindlessly and desperately hurling bricks, stones and bottles at the cops while looting here and setting bonfires there, leading the authorities on a merry chase of catch-as-catch-can as they tweeted their way from one strategic target to another.

The word “feral” pulled me up short. It reminded me of how the communards in Paris in 1871 were depicted as wild animals, as hyenas, that deserved to be (and often were) summarily executed in the name of the sanctity of private property, morality, religion, and the family. But then the word conjured up another association: Tony Blair attacking the “feral media,” having for so long been comfortably lodged in the left pocket of Rupert Murdoch only later to be substituted as Murdoch reached into his right pocket to pluck out David Cameron.

There will of course be the usual hysterical debate between those prone to view the riots as a matter of pure, unbridled and inexcusable criminality, and those anxious to contextualize events against a background of bad policing; continuing racism and unjustified persecution of youths and minorities; mass unemployment of the young; burgeoning social deprivation; and a mindless politics of austerity that has nothing to do with economics and everything to do with the perpetuation and consolidation of personal wealth and power. Some may even get around to condemning the meaningless and alienating qualities of so many jobs and so much of daily life in the midst of immense but unevenly distributed potentiality for human flourishing.

If we are lucky, we will have commissions and reports to say all over again what was said of Brixton and Toxteth in the Thatcher years. I say ‘lucky’ because the feral instincts of the current Prime Minister seem more attuned to turn on the water cannons, to call in the tear gas brigade and use the rubber bullets while pontificating unctuously about the loss of moral compass, the decline of civility and the sad deterioration of family values and discipline among errant youths.

But the problem is that we live in a society where capitalism itself has become rampantly feral. Feral politicians cheat on their expenses, feral bankers plunder the public purse for all its worth, CEOs, hedge fund operators and private equity geniuses loot the world of wealth, telephone and credit card companies load mysterious charges on everyone’s bills, shopkeepers price gouge, and, at the drop of a hat swindlers and scam artists get to practice three-card monte right up into the highest echelons of the corporate and political world.

A political economy of mass dispossession, of predatory practices to the point of daylight robbery, particularly of the poor and the vulnerable, the unsophisticated and the legally unprotected, has become the order of the day. Does anyone believe it is possible to find an honest capitalist, an honest banker, an honest politician, an honest shopkeeper or an honest police commisioner any more? Yes, they do exist. But only as a minority that everyone else regards as stupid. Get smart. Get Easy Profits. Defraud and steal! The odds of getting caught are low. And in any case there are plenty of ways to shield personal wealth from the costs of corporate malfeasance.

What I say may sound shocking. Most of us don’t see it because we don’t want to. Certainly no politician dare say it and the press would only print it to heap scorn upon the sayer. But my guess is that every street rioter knows exactly what I mean. They are only doing what everyone else is doing, though in a different way – more blatently and visibly in the streets. Thatcherism unchained the feral instincts of capitalism (the “animal spirits” of the entreprenuer they coyly named it) and nothing has transpired to curb them since. Slash and burn is now openly the motto of the ruling classes pretty much everywhere.

This is the new normal in which we live. This is what the next grand commission of enquiry should address. Everyone, not just the rioters, should be held to account. Feral capitalism should be put on trial for crimes against humanity as well as for crimes against nature.

Sadly, this is what these mindless rioters cannot see or demand. Everything conspires to prevent us from seeing and demanding it also. This is why political power so hastily dons the robes of superior morality and unctuous reason so that no one might see it as so nakedly corrupt and stupidly irrational.

But there are various glimmers of hope and Light around the world. The indignados movements in Spain and Greece, the revolutionary impulses in Latin America, the peasant movements in Asia, are all beginning to see through the vast scam that a predatory and feral global capitalism has unleashed upon the world. What will it take for the rest of us to see and act upon it? How can we begin all over again? What direction should we take? The answers are not easy. But one thing we do know for certain: we can only get to the right answers by asking the right questions.

David Harvey is Distinguished Professor at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York. His latest book is The Enigma of Capital, and the Crises of Capitalism.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 07:13 | 1576307 BigJim
BigJim's picture

LOL. And who, WHO, will help us to find the right questions to ask? For a tenure? And a fat advance on his new book: We're all to blame, so I'm guessing no one's to blame.

What I love about these guys is that, because we are ruled by a subsidised kleptocratic elite that robs the productive class, they think it's justifiable for the subsidised underclasses to join in, even more than they are already.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:23 | 1563029 SMG
SMG's picture

You are incorrect about who occupies government (ie the Zionist Occupied Government - zog reference).  It's the Lucifer worshiping Illuminati, not Yahweh worshiping Zionist.   The correct people must be brought to justice if we are ever to be truely free.

Please stop spreading incorrect info, it would help freedom's cause immensely.  Thanks.


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:33 | 1563061 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Many (most? all?) Orthodox Jews whould say "Yahweh worshipping Zionist" is a oxymoron. 

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:37 | 1563067 SMG
SMG's picture

Well my point is, if you blame Jewish people for the worlds ills, you are blaming the wrong people.   The real villans are the Illuminati.  And it is they who must be brought to justice for the common man and woman to be free.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:41 | 1563075 BigJim
BigJim's picture

He's not blaming Jews. Numerically, most  Zionists are actually bible-bashing evangelical Christians, who think Jesus is gonna come down an' save 'em when all the Jews get back to Isreeeeel.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:55 | 1563117 Accidental Farmer
Accidental Farmer's picture

Aren't the "jews" who controll everything Khazarians? Benjamin Freedman talks about it in a speech you can find on you tube.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 21:39 | 1563700 SMG
SMG's picture

I read the article.   I think the term Zionist is confusing, as to most people when you start talking about Zionism, you begin to think Jewish, and the wrong people get blamed.   To me,  Illuminati clearly refers to the people in the article the Rothschilds, Warburgs and the like.    I think using the Illuminati terminolgy helps ensure the correct people are eventually brought to justice.  Thanks for the article though. 

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 07:16 | 1576313 BigJim
BigJim's picture

..when you start talking about Zionism, you begin to think Jewish, and the wrong people get blamed.  

Well, the problem when you start talking about the 'Illuminati', you begin to think 'nut', and no one gets blamed.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:42 | 1563272 TwelfthVulture
TwelfthVulture's picture

An orthodox jew wouldn't say yahweh.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:56 | 1563313 Thomas
Thomas's picture

What's with this whole Jew obsession. Is it Yahweh or the highway? All I care is that they are bankers, and there ought to be a bounty on the top shelf bankers.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:18 | 1563395 andybev01
andybev01's picture

"Yahweh or the highway?"



Mon, 08/15/2011 - 20:06 | 1563529 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

It's Autobahn of course.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 23:30 | 1563990 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

It would solve a lot of problems if the Jews went back to Israel with a banker under their right arm and 

a lawyer under their left arm and a politician with his head stuck up their ass.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 23:34 | 1564002 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Disclaimer... Zorba wishes not to offend anyone...Some of Zorba's best friends

hate lawyers and bankers and politicians too.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:08 | 1563361 Nozza
Nozza's picture

Orthodoix Jews / observant Jews would not say the tetrgammaton


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 21:25 | 1563666 Inibo E. Exibo
Inibo E. Exibo's picture

You should, perhaps, google Abraham Abulafia and Prophetic or Ecstatic Kabbalah.  At it's core Jewish mysticism is all about the Name.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:35 | 1563064's picture
Traditional Jews Are Not Zionists


Although there are those who refuse to accept the teachings of our Rabbis and will continue to support the Zionist state, there are also many who are totally unaware of the history of Zionism and its contradiction to the beliefs of Torah-True Jews.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:58 | 1563323 Dick Fitz
Dick Fitz's picture

Good link.

Blaming "Jews" for the work of a smal coterie of people who may or may not be Jewish (although a large minority of the most recognizable ARE of Jewish descent) is counter-productive and muddies the debate. The Illuminati are just another facet of this "conspiracy" and the amount of disinformation on both is astonishing. Look up "The Daily Bell" for a more in-depth examination of these families and groups, and it will help you refine your understanding of the attacks we have faced in the past, and the shape of their attacks in the future.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 20:22 | 1563555 CH1
CH1's picture

Ignore them, Dick. These assholes populate  lot of threads here, mainly to waste everyone's time. Not many more effective ways to do that than screaming Antisemitic bullshit.

They are shills. The good question is who pays them?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:40 | 1563073 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

It's the Lucifer worshiping Illuminati,

Of course, make it someone we could never identify or put our finger on.. Perfect!!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:31 | 1563234 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture

Lucifer was Barry Obama's dad - so that make Barry son of satan.  There I've identified him.  Whip him your finger!  BO is perfect, perfectly evil........ booohaahaaa

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:36 | 1563446 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

This is not so complex.  IMO Russian leader Vladimir Putin is the reincarnation of RasPUTIN, a name that means "lawlessness" in Russian.

2 Thessalonians 2 prophesizes that Jesus would return to expose the "lawless one" who, for all intents and purposes, represents the Evil One in the world, i.e., the Antichrist who makes war on the Jews and God's people during the Apocalypse:

Tis the great chastisement as the Kingdom of God is brought to our world, but as part of this a false kingdom of Satan will first be established to counterfeit the divine plan:

Modern Christian eschatology 101.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:40 | 1563471 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

I haven't missed the Junk button as much as I do this very moment.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 20:30 | 1563570 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

I have never agreed with you more.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 22:09 | 1563753 toady
toady's picture

You and me both.

This religion this, that religion that...

I read the first couple, glance at the next ten, think JESUS! to myself and give up.

This thread is fucked. On to the next!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 22:28 | 1563786 piceridu
piceridu's picture

I second that! Crackpots...

Tue, 08/16/2011 - 02:23 | 1564398 lewy14
lewy14's picture

Ditto that.


Tue, 08/16/2011 - 01:29 | 1564308 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

There's a reason religion is  nothing more than organized supersitition.   At least paganism is fun!   Even greek or norse mythology is more interesting.  I figured this out when I was 12 years old.  Its a scam.  Think about this:  god is just dog spelled backwards.  So, the very good reasons why man might worship his dog got distorted by a simple mis-spelling and propagation of error.

If I'm wrong I'll burn in hell, but all the interesting people will be there too.  Strumming on a harp on a cloud is as boring as Western religions are on earth.  As Bertrand Russell once said,  "if God didn't exist man would certainly invent him." 

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:04 | 1563348 Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

Well, technically, there could be a few ZINOs (Zionists In Name Only), but they're probably the ones described in 2 Kings 17:16, "They forsook all the commands of the LORD their God...and they worshiped Baal."

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:33 | 1563453 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Sorta like me but I am a WASP in name only...  yep, WINO.  Too bad about all this religion bullshit, it took sick minds to make it up and weak ones to follow it, most halfwits can figure out that it is utter rubbish by the time they are in fourth grade. 

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 20:48 | 1563614 Inibo E. Exibo
Inibo E. Exibo's picture

I heard it was the Jesuits.


So many sinister cabals, so little time.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 21:22 | 1563661 minsky4ever
minsky4ever's picture

You're kidding, right?

This is gonna become an anti-Jewish rant that would have fit comfortably in 1932 Germany?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:32 | 1563057 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Only Bigger, Longer, and Uncut by Bailouts

Oh, I thought this was another Bachmann post...carry on ;-)

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:16 | 1563181 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

the Euro-bonds might have been rated AAA, but they certainly aren’t blue-chip—they are more like brown-chip: That deep brown color peculiar to fast-sinking dog-turds.

"Beware my friend, shit winds are a coming."


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:41 | 1563268 TwelfthVulture
TwelfthVulture's picture

+1000, battered and deep fried.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:45 | 1563082 Frog-And-Toad
Frog-And-Toad's picture

What's up with all of the racial/ethnic slurs as of late on ZH?  I haven't noticed them until the recent crash, and *BAM* all of a sudden I see comment after comment blaiming this group or that group.  Isn't it apparent that the banksters have no true religion or race?  

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:54 | 1563115 Kayman
Kayman's picture

the banksters have no true religion or race?   True.

But they all drink a special elixir- their own bathwater.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 22:13 | 1563761 toady
toady's picture

I thought vampires drank blood...

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:01 | 1563132 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Um, just look at the people and the names.

I haven't seen any slurs here.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:08 | 1563154 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Common human reaction- blame the ones who are "different" than you.

Personally, I dobut that sociopathic/psychopathic behavior has a nationality, gender, creed or color.  I don't believe that all the various races and ethnicities are the same (that would be very dull,) but I'm not on-board with blaming this or that group for the whole shebang.  I'm sure there were plenty of Asians and Wasps in the mix, along with some Jews, Latinos, and any other racial group you care to mention.  Hell, there's even a pretend black guy in the WH.

I'm still rooting for a list of targets, individuals who are guilty of specific actions that caused this.  Life is hard enough for everyone right now without a bunch of senseless collateral damage ala race riots or concentration camps that hurt the innocent.

Anyhow, thought I'd mention it, since I've noticed it as well.  I get the anger, so I'm not going to rant about it, and as a middle aged white male, I can see how easy it would be to respond to those who blame all the world's ills on men like me in kind.  It's just not actually helping anyone, unless it's serving the same purpose as a pressure relief valve.

All that being said, I never owned any slaves or oppressed anyone of a different race, and no one in my clan has either, so I *do* reserve the right to reject PC labels whenever it strikes my fancy, and use whatever word seems like an accurate description at the time, even it it hurts someone's sensitive feelings.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:22 | 1563196 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Sure its people blaming them for being different or not assimilating. I call bs on that. The Amish are a good example of people who mind their own business, live in their own world and nobody bothers them at all.

But when a certain group of people consistently oppresses the masses through immorality and avarice it stands out.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 20:25 | 1563560 Shirley Wilfahrt
Shirley Wilfahrt's picture

Confused....are we hating whitey again?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 20:44 | 1563599 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture



This is too much; I can't take anymore of this or I am gonna die laughing ... "are we hating whitey again?" LOL !!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 21:48 | 1563715 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

No shit. Truly laughing here.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 23:15 | 1563935 Shirley Wilfahrt
Shirley Wilfahrt's picture

My work here is done.


Tue, 08/16/2011 - 06:24 | 1564560 falak pema
falak pema's picture


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 20:26 | 1563563 Shirley Wilfahrt
Shirley Wilfahrt's picture


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 20:44 | 1563600 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Oddly enough... I really, really, really don't like the Amish.  As someone who donates to the local food pantry, I am pretty sick of seeing guys in black hats with rolls of hundreds going in there and taking food from people who actually need it when they could just purchase it or grow it on their farms.  And don't get me started on the horseshit they leave on the streets, with no thought of cleaning up after themselves.  But I guess you're right, I still don't bother them.

I guess my point was that any given group of people consistantly oppresses the masses through immorality and avarice, if you cherrypick the examples.  But all in all, the majority of any given race is composed of more or less decent folk.  

A case in point, germaine to the subject, but about an entirely different group.  In my area, we have a large Hmong population.  Every redneck and his idiot cousin in the state seem to hate them passionately, blaming them from everything from stealing jobs to destroying their homes.  But it just isn't true.  I lived in a Hmong neighborhood in St. Paul for years, and never saw anything that justified the claims that people make about them.  I've worked with them in machine shops, and while they were quiet, they were excellent craftsmen, and hard workers.  And, there were some whose kids were little thugs- just like any race.

I've also known Jews, plenty of them- none ever tried to rob from me or cheat me.  I have, however, been cheated by plenty of white men without a trace of Jewish blood in them.  

It's got nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with an individual's personal moral compass.  Go ahead and shoot the Jewish banksters, if that makes you feel better- just don't take out the ones who haven't done anything wrong.  And don't forget to get the banksters from other races when you are finished- leaving the job half done because a prejudice is blinding you is the moral hazard here, not seeking redress for what these lizard-brained freaks of all races have done to the rest of us. 

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 22:24 | 1563781 Manthong
Mon, 08/15/2011 - 23:08 | 1563913 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

That actually referencing that Stokey standoff with the faux neonazis. The leader was actually a Jew who changed his name and later revieled he hated his father etc. Was jailed for sex crimes not long after that.

That whole situation was a black eye for the Jews.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 23:05 | 1563899 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Amish do keep to themselves. And other than the horseshit on the road, they're not trying to control any industry, country or push their ideals and wars on the of us *cough Israel*

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:39 | 1563261 TwelfthVulture
TwelfthVulture's picture

You haven't been here long, have you?  Jew (or as they say here, Jooo) hatred has always been like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and Rev. Wright at a Nuremburg volks rally circa 1942 here at ZH.  Every problem in the world can be laid at the feet of a Rothschild.  If Tyler would put a link through to a youtube illluminati/lizard people/alien abduction channel there would be no need for banner ads. 

Junk away bitchez!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 20:53 | 1563627 Sledge
Sledge's picture

this man gets ignored by MSM more than Ron Paul!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 22:01 | 1563737 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

The more significant the story the more irrelevant racial/ethnic slurs in the comments section.

It looks to me like someone is trying to distract and discredit this site every time they publish something the big boys don't want to get out.

Tue, 08/16/2011 - 01:18 | 1564292 veryOrange
veryOrange's picture

You are exactly right *Diogenes.  They intentionally hijack the tread with these distracting topics some people might feel strongly about (i.e. Religion, Race, Conspiracy, etc.) in a lame attempt to steer the readers off topic.

It only adds credibility to the article when I see these trolls show up.  I ignore them. "A wise man once told me: Don't argue with fools. Because from a distance, people can't tell who is who.”

Regular readers and/or posters here can spot these snakes a mile away.  

Thank you for sharing this guest post Tyler, the point is noted.  Now if I could only sell my house while there is still some false value in the real estate, then buy some more PM's.


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 20:11 | 1563535 Element
Element's picture

we need 3 trillion or there is going to be riots in the streets.............

And a 4th trill from ZOG to put that pesky Ron Paul wacko out of buzinezz.


Tue, 08/16/2011 - 06:24 | 1564562 PaperWillBurn
PaperWillBurn's picture

They may be out of bullets but they still have


"The Nuclear Option

The ECB and the BIS have a secret weapon. They don't want to have to use it because they don't want to be seen as the instigators of the dollar's collapse. They would prefer the market to take care of it for them. But don't doubt for a second that they won't use it before sitting back and watching permanent damage come to the euro system.

Just imagine how Greece could deal with its problems if its gold were valued at $55,000 usd per ounce. In terms of current exchange rates that would raise Greece's liquid assets to 50% of its public debt. In other words, instead of being a "sub-prime" borrower, Greece would instantly become a PRIME borrower."

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:02 | 1562985 tahoebumsmith
tahoebumsmith's picture

They shot all their bullets in target practice and the enemy is now looming just over the hillside...

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:03 | 1562986 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Everything is fine cnbs tole me that s&p going to 1500 this year. Last week they said it fall to 1000. 50% improvement just over the weekend!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:06 | 1562995 walcott
walcott's picture

sequel can be spectacular if the tables turn on the scum who have screwed this entire planet.


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 21:25 | 1563670 minsky4ever
minsky4ever's picture

Hyman Minsky predicted 1987 and his prediction for 1987 held for 2008. Anyone paying attention knew this was coming, especially after nothing changed in the financial sector.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:08 | 1563001 trepidation
trepidation's picture

Zero Hedge has really helped me to shape my view of the world economy down the road, but where do you find specific trade ideas?

Are most Zero Hedge users short right now? How? via SPY puts? Short specific stocks?



Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:33 | 1563058 Landrew
Landrew's picture

Myself I am short Cisco's big run up of 40% as of today via Sept. 15$ puts. I always take the first big pop not wanting to leave profits on the table. I was holding Lehman puts the day before they went bankrupt. Funny I didn't even know how to sell , no market bid ha!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:34 | 1563062 SMG
SMG's picture

I personally am short via SDS (2x S&P inverse) and RYURX (1x short).  Not sure anough about a crash to buy puts that could leave me with a 100% loss, or a specific stock which can be levitated despite all reason forever.  Also buying fixed amounts of silver every month no matter the price, more if the price crashed that month.

They could do hyperinflation or a dollar crash right now, esp if QE 3 is implemented on Aug 25th, but there is a chance (albiet I'm sure many here would argue, VERY small) they may not proceed with QE3 in the near future but at a later date.   If that's the case any reasonable short bet would probably be ok.

The Oligarchs already know when QE3 will be implemented, but I don't.  My best guess is they will at least wait until all this debt that's backlogged because of the debt ceiling "fight" gets auctioned off.  But I could be wrong and often am.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:41 | 1563216 B9K9
B9K9's picture

Your problem is that you're viewing future QE activities through the prism of experience with past QE. Nothing could be further from the truth. Earlier iterations of QE focused on secretive, *discrete* actions taken to induce & influence behavior in order to facilitate a return to credit financed consumption.

It was a crap shoot, but worth a try - at least to the EE, that is. Since the last 3 years of fiscal/monetary measures have resulted only in abject failure, it's nearing the time when, as O says "we're gonna have to eat our peas". What the 'Bamster is implying, of course, is that it's nearing time for TPTB to take off the velvet glove in order to reveal the iron fist.

Future QE procedures aren't going to be one-off attempts engaged while sneaking around in the shadows, trying to fool people into thinking 'good times are right around the corner'. Nope, QE for the next 10, 20+ years will be in-your-face *continuous* devaluation of around 5% per annum embraced as official policy of the USA. (Tantamount to a declaration of war/national security decree.)  The CBs will keep ZIRP in place so that sovereign interest costs never increase past a certain threshold of GDP. For the frosting on top, capital controls will be enacted to prevent people fleeing into possible investment alternatives.

Ultimately, there's only one possible way out of this prison, but of course, it's against the law. With the sheeple caught between a rock (force of law) and a hard place (subsistence level UI+SNAP+Sec8 payoffs), it's hard to see why any would put up much of a fight. Like cattle who realize during the final moment of their lives that their entire existence was one of purposeful cultivation, which utlimately results in their harvest, the sheep will resign themselves to TV & beer while waiting for the end.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:05 | 1563354 daxtonbrown
daxtonbrown's picture

Well you are hinting the solution is a civil war but it is possible such an event wouldn't look anything like CW I, in fact we are likely in it right now. I think it will be more of a "Going Galt" affair where people just drop out and watch the whole thing collapse on its own (passive civil war by omission rather than comission). Sure, there will be riots, but not marching armies. Some new territory will be cyberspace rather than geography.

Tue, 08/16/2011 - 01:07 | 1564269 Miss anthrope
Miss anthrope's picture

I agree with you daxton.  I have been on the road to dropping off grid for quite some time.  It is a long process but I can no longer continue to feed the beast.  I am at that point of awakening where I will starve my own lifestyle in order to starve the beast.  If that doesn't work then I guess there MAY BE the all out shooting war.  I'm hoping for the collapse though

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:45 | 1563084 There is No Spoon
There is No Spoon's picture

Sometimes Tyler posts trade ideas such as ES-Risk Basket compression trade, about a month ago he also posted a long defensive/short high beta trade which he recommended closing near the recent lows for a pretty good gain. In general you've got to find your own specific ideas. Take what you're learning and apply it on your own. Many Zero Hedge users seem to be holding and accumulating physical gold and silver. Personally I integrate economic data, volatility, sentiment, basic technical analysis, and market psychology, and construct short term trades from all that. I am not short spy right now. I shorted volatility and long dated treasurys via puts last week, looking to cover sometime before jackson hole. Also will collar long stock positions as spy retraces to the 126-128 range, close aforementioned shorts, and look to buy spy puts at that time. This plan is fluid and will change as the market dictates.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:55 | 1563116 spinone
spinone's picture

You can pick up nickles in front of a steamroller if you want to. I don't like gambling in a rigged casino. Silver looks good right now.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:07 | 1563150 Religion Explained
Religion Explained's picture

Et tu, brute?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:33 | 1563454 Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:01 | 1563131 Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

you won't get any advice here and you will get shunned for asking. why? it's called tough love buddy. like Travolta said as an angel, 'BATTLE'. the mrket is a battle zone and if you have someone fight your battles for you then you never grow a 'pair' and if you loose that source of advice then you are dead in the water with no experience in making your own choices. do your own research and never stop learning. be willing to get your nose bloodied a few times, make your own descisions and earn that badge of wisdom. the only path to wealth and security is in your own head...

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:03 | 1563137 chartcruzer
chartcruzer's picture

here's an easy place to research and make decisions on the major ETFs

might want to diversify a bit....

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:32 | 1563244 TwelfthVulture
TwelfthVulture's picture

Somebody said Cramer's short euro banks.  I'd go long if I were you.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 21:28 | 1563676 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

I am short the dollar by being long physical PMs...

Tue, 08/16/2011 - 01:55 | 1564345 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

OK  This isn't a site for trading tips though many of us do trade for amusement.  But here's some advice.  When volatility (fear) is high, puts are expensive and much more risky.  The time to buy puts was 1-2 months ago when complacency reigned and the market was near a high.  For example, I bought Aug 40 C puts (the right to sell citybank at $40/share for $140/contract (100 shares) then)-now worth $900/contract (and likely will be worth $1200/contract by expiry at weeks end).  And lots of other puts too on AIG, MS, BAC, GM, RIG, SCCO, X etc.  (Some ones to consider if/when a rally occurs)  Note the theme:  these are the big losers that survived from the last bailout and many are mostly government owned.  But you must be patient and sit in cash right now.  Complacency will set in again-its human nature.  Sometimes the best trade is no trade.  Ditto for gold and Ag too (my long positions).  For people with open puts now is the time to take profits by rolling down in strike price and out in duration to catch future bad news in the Oct/Nov time frame and/or wait for the next phony rally.

And the best advice of all:  never trade or "gamble" wiith money you can't afford to lose.  Its gambling that's why they call it making a bet on interest rates , currencies, etc.  The future is unpredictible-eat dessert first.  We're all fooled by randomness.

And while we're getting deep into trading pyschology:  "Desire is the source of all unhappiness" (the Budda)

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:09 | 1563003 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

We've had a recovery?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:13 | 1563007 rocker
rocker's picture

Yes, Yes, Got Gold, Got Silver.   Hope So.   Looks like they will recover for a few more years. 

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:58 | 1563126 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Almost there! One final piece!

Krugman says we need space aliens to attack us or sumpin...

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:30 | 1563233 Dasa Slooofoot
Dasa Slooofoot's picture

Intergalactic Reserve Currency Status, FTW! 

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:51 | 1563295 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The shape shifters window is now open ;-)

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 21:37 | 1563693 Hamsterfist
Hamsterfist's picture

Well I have great news then!  These 'patriots' seem to be implying Obama is either a gay alien or a gay spawn of the devil.  I can't quite make it out, but Krugman might get his wish.  If you believe morons.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 22:29 | 1563776 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Is this conditioning for an alien false flag as a desperate final attempt to implement world government?  The whole terrorist-as-boogeyman thing is starting to wear off.  Gotta kick it up a notch, and besides, the puppetmasters like to keep their options open.  Google Project Blue Beam (for all you HAARPies out there). 

The UN.  The global financial crisis with the IMF as the "white knight".  Carbon credits.  Just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 22:54 | 1563855 tip e. canoe
Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:00 | 1563128's picture

We've had a recovery?


She turned me into a newt.

A newt?

I got better.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:12 | 1563373 zeneta
zeneta's picture

I don't want to go on the cart.

I feel happy.......I feel happy...........


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:13 | 1563006 fyrebird
fyrebird's picture

Thus they—and we collectively—are flying blind insofar as derivatives written on the European sovereign debt.

I'm not so certain on this point. Someone knows, by now. They'll make sure the important people are fine. And because of that the walls will be allowed to come unmortared.

Watch for a highly controlled demolition. It's going down, and it will be terrifying to watch, and nobody who can stop it will try to stop it because they've already gotten out of the way.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:53 | 1563111 Dugald
Dugald's picture

The Buzzards are aloft their hungry little eyes sharp, waiting for lots of juicy prey......

Make sure you and yours are not in that number!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:14 | 1563008 hunglow
hunglow's picture

I'm naked and saluting with the red, white & blue.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:14 | 1563175 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

If your salute lasts more than four hours, seek medical attention immediately.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:29 | 1563437 andybev01
andybev01's picture

Patriotism, priapitism; same thing.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 20:31 | 1563572 Hulk
Hulk's picture

No need to worry, Priapism can be licked!

Tue, 08/16/2011 - 06:22 | 1564559 falak pema
falak pema's picture

now now, punning again, leg before wicked wicket!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:08 | 1563360 Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

And don't forget the tandem bath tubs!

Tue, 08/16/2011 - 01:37 | 1564322 hunglow
hunglow's picture

Luke, feel the force

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:15 | 1563009 machineh
machineh's picture

Some commentators compare where we are now to 1937 -- the 'depression within the Depression.'

But it's sobering to contemplate that gold mining stocks, after a fabulous run-up from 1930 to 1936, slid right along with industrial stocks in 1937-1938. By 1942, the US government had padlocked the Homestake Mine, America's largest, to induct the miners into the military.

Definitely there will be safe haven demand in a fresh collapse. But I would keep an open mind as to whether it channels into Treasuries, gold, developing-world property, or something entirely different.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:26 | 1563042 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

possible outcomes
1. Hyperinflation
2. Haircut
3. war
4. all of the above

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:34 | 1563063 Landrew
Landrew's picture

You forgot DEFLATION, that story hasn't been written yet.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:19 | 1563190 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

What about 2008?

May only have been in relative terms, but I remember some very welcome food and energy deflation.  As one of those whose employment was not affected, it was very obvious.

Come to think of it, I could use another round of that right about now.  Sure would make the prepping cheaper.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:49 | 1563289 zeneta
zeneta's picture

Deflation is in the cards and IT IS A BITCH !!!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:51 | 1563106 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Gold miners had an advantage back then because they were literally digging money out of the ground. And when FDR devalued the dollar by 69%, the dollar value of what they were digging up also rose by 69%.

If we go back on to the gold standard (I personally prefer free banking and competing currencies), and it's priced at $7500 (as Jim Rickards suggests: then gold miners will probably see a rise of 400%... wouldn't that be nice?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:18 | 1563014 falak pema
falak pema's picture

One line says it all about the mind set, in Movies as in Finance, according to this post : Bigger bang for the buck, in this case the bang is a bigger bust than last one! 

Suddenly this guy has become a red-meat eating moralist. Wow! I am a meat eater, but I knew from infant days that governments had a role in society. Apparently this guy has now become at his mature age, having earned from writing for the movie industry, he has seen the light! Greed is not good! Even if bigger bang per buck is good. It has to be an ethically and economically correct bang! Not a bunga bunga banger. 

Well, better late than never! As for the sequel, it is lined with gold! That should please ZH readers no end. Even if after the payout, the zip out, could de dead end for all. But who cares as nobody can see that far!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:59 | 1563329 newworldorder
newworldorder's picture

Gold should be the bridge to and the foundation for a new beginning after the collapse. If not, it realy does not matter as in the barter economy gold will do very little. Either way, you better have have some eats as well as bullets.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 20:49 | 1563618 Bárðarbunga
Bárðarbunga's picture

           Not a bunga bunga banger. 

That's right. You guys leave me the hell out of this.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:17 | 1563017 destroyer of mo...
destroyer of moonbats's picture

que paulson and the 3 pages worth of prepared speech.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:18 | 1563018 treemagnet
treemagnet's picture

Right or wrong - kudos for making a call  - how much by when.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:18 | 1563020 Rock the Casbah
Rock the Casbah's picture

You only need government regulation where you DON'T have a free market. The retail utility market is far from "free".

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:20 | 1563023 IMA5U
IMA5U's picture

u must be short

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:20 | 1563024 Fox-Scully
Fox-Scully's picture

For this sequel, will it be on an IMAX screen with surround sound and will I need 3-D glasses?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:21 | 1563026 zeneta
zeneta's picture

Sequel ?

This will end up being a Quadrilogy.


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:38 | 1563070 Grimbert
Grimbert's picture

or even a tetralogy

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:42 | 1563078 zeneta
zeneta's picture

It seems to me that this cycle will continue until the next "true innovation" ignites the next bubble.

There should be a web site ""


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 20:22 | 1563556 KowPie
KowPie's picture

There is... ...and it does seem to be quite watchfull.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 22:14 | 1563763 zeneta
zeneta's picture

Only time will tell.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:21 | 1563027 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

When was the last time:


- 5-yr. Treasury yield was 0.99%

- Unemployment at 8.5%

- Food stamp usage reached all time records

- Panic TICK of -1000 or worse recorded 17 trading days in a row

- 10-day moving average Put/Call ratio at 1.23

- Credit spreads blowing out on sovereigns all over the place

- Consumer sentiment near world record lows

- Business confidence near world record lows

- President's approval rating near world record lows


You would think the Dow would be at 6500, not 11,500


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:27 | 1563044 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Priced in gold, we hit all time lows for the move

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:28 | 1563223 Religion Explained
Religion Explained's picture

No, we have not hit the low yet. Check your figures.

The recent DOW low divided by the recent high in gold (DOW/Gold ratio) has to drop below 2 or sumtin to reach the lowest low.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 20:13 | 1563542 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

RT is right, and it is going to be breathtaking when we make that plunge. I think we're still a few weeks away from truly rolling over hard, but when we make that turn, it will be epic.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 21:33 | 1563689 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

When was the last time RoboTrader made a correct call?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:42 | 1563076 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

You would think the Dow would be at 6500, not 11,500

ZACKLY!!  Think about it.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:44 | 1563081 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Patience, grasshoppa. I hope it takes its time sos I can bust out my Dow 10,000 hat

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:57 | 1563123 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

What if we had an apocalypse now party and nobody came?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:22 | 1563197 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

The horror...the horror...

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