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Guest Post: America: The List

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Brian Rogers

America: The List

If tomorrow all the things were gone,
I’d worked for all my life.
And I had to start again,
with just my children and my wife.

I’d thank my lucky stars,
to be livin here today.
‘ Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away.

   - Proud To Be An American, Lee Greenwood

America, F*CK YEAH!
Coming again, to save the mother f*cking day yeah,
America, F*CK YEAH!
What you going to do when we come for you now,
it’s the dream that we all share; it’s the hope for tomorrow

F*CK YEAH!

McDonalds, F*CK YEAH!
Wal-Mart, F*CK YEAH!
The Gap, F*CK YEAH!
Baseball, F*CK YEAH!
NFL, F*CK, YEAH!
Rock and roll, F*CK YEAH!
The Internet, F*CK YEAH!
Slavery, F*CK YEAH!

   - America, F*ck Yeah,
   Trey Parker (of South Park)

Coffee Shop at Union Square

I was out having drinks the other night with brilliant financial mind and Wall Street veteran Paulo Pereira.  Paulo is a Brazilian-American who's worked on both the buy and sell-side for years and has a long track record covering many of the large natural resource exporting countries.  A Yale grad with a degree in music, Paulo brings a unique perspective to finance and economics to say the least.

We decided to meet up at a great restaurant/bar on Manhattan's Union Square called Coffee Shop.  Next time you're in NY, I highly recommend you add this cool spot to your agenda.  The food is great, a mix of Brazilian and American fare, and you always have a real diverse crowd of folks to mingle with. 

But it's the hostesses, waitresses and barmaids that bring in the crowds.  You see, Coffee Shop, tends to employ many of Manhattan's aspiring super models and actresses.  Let's just say the scenery is impressive and distracting.  But I digress.  Oh man, do I digress...

Anywho, Paulo and I started tilting back the Stellas and proceeded down the rabbit hole that is modern finance and politics.  The usual topics came up that would be familiar to any regular Zero Hedge reader: the Bernank, gold, ZIRP, TBTF, silver price manipulation, BLS data manipulation, China, Brazil, Europe, Australia housing bubble, the upcoming sovereign debt crisis, the hypocrisy of my former idol Warren Buffett, the eloquence of Jim Rickards, the death of the 30-year bond bubble, blah, blah, blah...  The list goes on.

But at some point in the evening we started focusing (to the extent that you can focus with 4 beers and 1 very distracting barmaid in the mix) on the way that the very words we use to think about ourselves as Americans have become somewhat, well, meaningless.

For example, Capitalism

First, a definition from the good folks at merriam-webster.comCapitalism - an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decisions, and by prices, production and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.  (emphasis mine)

A couple of things should instantly jump out when applying even the most basic of critical thinking skills to the definition above. 

First, as Martin Armstrong likes to frequently highlight, we now live in a political-economy.  Precisely the opposite of a so-called free market.  A true match made in hell.

Second, our economic system is currently characterized by a situation where 50% of every business transaction involves the use of a government granted monopoly currency controlled by a private consortium of banks.  The good ol' USD. 

So far we're falling a bit short on merriam-webster's standard.

Was Adam Smith wrong?

Remember the English dude Adam Smith?  Adam was a pretty bright guy and expressed some really novel ideas (novel at the time anyway) which helped usher in a new way of commerce that would help raise millions of people globally out of abject poverty and serfdom.

But remember this, when ol' Adam was scratching out his notes, you had a choice on not only the good or service you purchased or sold, but also the currency or method of payment you could offer or receive.  Both sides of the deal had to match or no go. 

Today, the government, via the private consortium of banks, aka the Fed, control the currency side of every transaction with an iron fist. 

At least they try to.  What is the typical result when government tries to control the price of anything?  Disruption, confusion, corruption, malinvestment,  etc.  And yet these guys think controlling the price of money is a good thing or even possible. 

Best of luck with that cat-herding exercise.  The chart of the USD over the last 100 years speaks volumes more than I could on the subject of currency stability.

Legal tender laws date back to the Civil War.  Lincoln implemented them as an "emergency measure" (sound familiar in our post-911 world).  He pinky swore that it was only temporary.  Fast  forward 150 years and we're still wearing that albatross around our neck.

Private decisions indeed.

Back to Coffee Shop, barmaids and "The List"

So besides the basic definition of capitalism, Paulo and I started chatting about other subjects in this country of ours where our perceptions and realities don't quite align.

In this spirit, I'm starting The List. 

Let's get it all out there.  America's dirty laundry that is.  Our family secrets.  The skeletons in the closet. 

The goal is to create a list of the many and numerous ways in which our country is deluding itself into believing we are the greatest, smartest, most innovative, freedom loving country that ever was.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not some unpatriotic ne'er do well.  I love what the Founding Fathers of our country set out to accomplish, faults and all.  I love it so much, I was willing to put my life on the line for this country by serving in a US Marine Corps special forces unit for 8 years (your move armchair patriot).

But we have drifted so far from the original concepts, I believe our current central planning apparatus more closely resembles the USSR than what most people think is the USA.

So I'm going to kick this list off but in no way do I intend this to be exhaustive. 

Please, add your own comments and thoughts.  Take the list and grow it.  Spread it around.  Repost it, tweet it, facebook it (whatever that means) and let's start the healing process by admitting what's wrong.

Sort of like a political and economic 12-step program.  Hi, my name is Brian Rogers and I'm an asset of the state. 

And I want to quit.

The List

1.  Money - The US dollar is a currency controlled by a private consortium of banks under the Federal Reserve System.  There is nothing "Federal" about the Federal Reserve, it is owned and absolutely controlled by bankers.  Sound free? 

2.  The Federal Reserve System - The Fed is neither under the auspices of Executive, Legislative nor Judicial branches of government.  The most important and largest decisions they make cannot be audited by any branch of the US government.  Sound free?

3.  Presidential authority - The POTUS can these days declare martial law and based on the language of the recently passed NDAA, arrest any US citizen he wants, anywhere he wants and hold them without due process for as long as he wants.  All the POTUS has to say is that the person is a terrorist.  Sound free? 

4.  Federal judges - Even in during Rome's imperial years, about half of the federal judges were voted by the people.  Today, all Federal judges are political appointment.  Sound free?

5.  Electoral college - We do not have a popular vote.  The masses just simply can't be trusted.  We choose special delegates to enact the "final solution" (pun intended).  Sound free?

6.  Campaign finance - Corporations are people.  Seriously.  Mitt Romney was right.  As long as national elections have an essentially uncapped spending limit, the game of politics will always be about money and who has the most.  Those monied interests then become the only real constituent.  Everyone else just gets lip service.  In the meantime, average citizens everywhere are priced out of even trying to run for office given the exorbitant costs to participate in the system.  Read my lips, sound free?

7.  Term limits - Nope.  We seem to like our political class and want to make sure that we can get the same old idiots year in and year out.  They have no incentive to make hard choices, only political choices to keep their career feeding at the government trough.  And the good ones, meaning the most political and successful at money raising, become furniture and stay for decades.  Sound free?

8.  Income taxes (or direct taxation) - You no longer have the right to 100% of the result of your hard work aka wages.  The government has decreed that you must share your income with everyone else or go to jail.  Ayn Rand once said that the basis for every totalitarian dictatorship was altruism.  Sacrifice for the state.  I certainly don't blindly follow Ms. Rand like Alan Greenspan did, but on this point I agree entirely.  Sound free?

9.  Legal tender laws - Don't like the dollar?  Wish you could simply eject yourself out of the Federal Reserve System by buying some gold and silver coins and using them to make payment for goods and services?  While some merchants may gladly do business with you, the transaction is very much illegal.  You MUST use the FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES controlled and priced by the Oracles of Delphi at the Fed.  Sound free?

10.  "Cost" of money - Modern finance values assets using various pricing methods.  All of these, however, share a common theme, they all discount future cash flows using the Risk Free rate which is normally defined as US Treasuries.  The Fed is artificially controlling and manipulating US Treasuries.  Therefore, every asset on the planet has a price that is artificial as the rates implicit in its price are not market rates.  They are what the Bernank and the Oracles of Delphi think they should be.  Sound free?

11.  Two-party political system - Seriously, do I really need to break down the hypocrisy exhibited on a daily basis by team red and team blue?  As Zero Hedge pointed out recently, 50% of the American public votes.  About 50% of the public is politically active in the two major parties.  Therefore, in any given election, the winner will only represent about 25% of the population.  And we wonder why special interests get all the attention.  Sound free?

What else? 

Like I said, this list isn't meant to be exhaustive, in fact just the beginning.  Please add your own ideas, improve on mine and pass this along.

In the meantime, it's a beautiful day here in Manhattan and I'm about to take a walk and enjoy it.  I can still do that without asking permission or paying a tax so I'm going to take advantage. 

Perhaps I'll stroll over to Coffee Shop again at Union Square. 

On the way, perhaps I'll run into The Occupy Wall Street Movement at Union Square. 

We can heckle the police about how they are working for the "man" while secretly justifying their thug tactics by thinking about the nice pension plan waiting for them at the end of their career rainbow. 

The same pension plan that is rapidly becoming insolvent under the Bernank's ZIRP.

America.  F*ck yeah.

 

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Wed, 04/04/2012 - 12:55 | 2316835 Jo
Jo's picture

Adam Smith wasn't english, he was scottish.

 

C'mon dude!

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 12:58 | 2316850 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

Coffee Shop waitresses really aren't all that.  If you sit at one of the outside tables, there's much nicer tail walking by on the sidewalk.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:00 | 2316864 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

See: Dimitri Orlov - Reinventing Collapse

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:10 | 2316895 CrimsonAvenger
CrimsonAvenger's picture

Yeah, now HE'S hot.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:27 | 2316969 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

'I love it so much, I was willing to put my life on the line for this country by serving in a US Marine Corps special forces unit for 8 years (your move armchair patriot).'

Fuck off. That doesn't make you a patriot, it makes you a paid assassin, a mercenary and paid by the same people you now criticise, which makes you nothing more than a fucking hypocrit.

Perhaps you'd want to try again...

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:33 | 2316993 economics9698
economics9698's picture

"Electoral college - We do not have a popular vote.  The masses just simply can't be trusted.  We choose special delegates to enact the "final solution" (pun intended).  Sound free?"

Serious dude?  If you want the power to go to NYC, Chicago, LA, Miami, and Dallas get rid of that electorial college.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:50 | 2317056 Cruel Aid
Cruel Aid's picture

Not pumping Busch here, but we almost had Al Gore as POTUS, which would have put a lock on the Carbon Credit Exchange.

Goes to the red blue thing, big time.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:01 | 2317109 YBNguy
YBNguy's picture

Thanks Econ and Cruel. The fool who wrote this (yes I gave it 1 star) does not understand the electoral college and how without it we would be a direct democracy, where the liberal big city turds and welfare rats win with overwhelming majority, fly over states be damned.

Why is this crap pinned at the top of ZH? Almost everyone here knows about the FED, fiat $$$, NDAA, etc etc etc..................

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:04 | 2317122 Spaceman Spiff
Spaceman Spiff's picture

Until, something actually breaks in the economy, poor ZH is relegated to repeating warning stories.     Can outrage outlast the ctr  + P?

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:46 | 2317246 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Articles such as this one serve as good tools to forward on to those who keep their heads up their asses and don't read ZH.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:01 | 2317288 notbot
notbot's picture

On the note of the electoral college, guess what...there actually ARE conservatives and libertarians in NYC, and California.  Abandoning the EC would let their vote count.  I'm all for it!

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:11 | 2317312 clymer
clymer's picture

I agree with everything in the read, but the whole "I was a Marine. I like hot chicks." thing makes you look like you are really trying to say, "HEY! I am NOT FUCKING QUEER, OK?! I LIKE PUSSY, GODDAMNIT!"

It's cool bro. You like chicks. We get it.

And I will have you know that I was a sloppy, slacking seabee (I am an armchair patriot)

 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 16:05 | 2317450 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

I would never criticize anyone for liking pussy.  Man or woman.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 17:56 | 2317732 wisefool
wisefool's picture

blonde, brunette,redhead. I really just want to know what a pretax code america looks like.

Ciper "let hem eat meat" blue pill.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:54 | 2317082 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

I originally thought that way, but now I think members of the electoral college are better politically informed, in general, than the Jersy Shore/American Idol masses.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:03 | 2317118 ATM
ATM's picture

The Electoral College was one of the smartest things the Founders came up with. Mob rule where the majority infringe the rights of the minority is a basic problem with any Republic.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:48 | 2317257 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

The selection of Senators by the states' legislatures, rather than direct election, was also a smart move.

Currently, Senatorial elections are a one-stop buy here pay here process for Dimon and friends. If Senators were selected by state legislatures again, it would dramatically increase the number of people which would need to be bought off in order for Jamie to buy an election.

It would also make the work of lobbyists more difficult, as they would need to provide direct bribes to Senators instead of making campaign contributions.

 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:56 | 2317273 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 interesting how this was repealed by one of the three things that happened 1913

                                               the 16th, the 17th and the creation of the FED

the three pillars of...

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:15 | 2317323 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Also, fuck the interstate commerce clause as a justification for federal control over everything.

 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:22 | 2317344 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

Here here !  forth ~!

+1 up

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 22:28 | 2318311 gnomon
gnomon's picture

And then came 1914.  It has been a worldwide stew of carcinogenic change with wholesale slaughter ever since.  We "frogs have been boiling" for one hundred years.  

We are the debased denizens of a nightmare world that would be unrecognizable to our great grandfathers.  They would recoil in horror at what we have become and at what we accept.

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 10:05 | 2319244 thewhitelion
thewhitelion's picture

All these smart moves and I still live in a bought-and-paid-for banana republic--with at least 4 times as much military as we ought to have.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:49 | 2317414 Chariots of the Feds
Chariots of the Feds's picture

That's exactly where I lost interest in the article

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 16:12 | 2317465 undercover brother
undercover brother's picture

The electoral college is needed to protect the interests of states in the country that aren't well represented by population. Imagine if 90% of the liberals lived in the major cities in the country like NY, LA, Chicago, Philly, and Boston and those cities comprised 50% of the entire population of the country, each and every law enacted by popular vote would be won by that particular liberal voting block and legislation for all 50 states would simply be controlled by the whims of the states with the largest voting block. This is totally unfair and it's why the founding fathers created the electoral college.

 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 19:45 | 2317976 moonshadow
moonshadow's picture

Agreed (the rest of the article is good)- the electoral college protects the interests of any unique populations within individual states. for example: if utah or new hampshire believe in gun rights and standing militias and select a candidate based largely on those reasons or the like, they get a block of electoral votes- not just a popular vote count. so in this way the overpopulated and dependent cities cannot so easily overrule the urban areas (that the cities depend on for their existence by the way)

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:36 | 2317003 fourchan
fourchan's picture

we have all ten planks of the comunist manifesto in place.

they are not designed to create a societe but to destroy a capitolist one.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 16:42 | 2317544 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Now you need a good myth. Oh....something like "With Liberty and Justice for all". Yea that oughta do it.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:37 | 2317008 M.R.GOLD.Risiko...
M.R.GOLD.Risikokapitalgeber's picture

I was protective service in the Navy. Didn't kill anyone and completly agree with Mr. Rogers. I don't normally participate in public forum but if you're allowed to spread your douchie oppinion then I suppose why not me too. You Fuck Off Sir!

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:37 | 2317011 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Belay that shit Harlequin... he volunteered his life for the country.  That's where it ends... that's the end of his responsibility for that greatest of all guestures of servitude.  You FUCK OFF.  It's not up to the soldier what war to fight or what the hidden agenda is.  His choice at approx. 18yrs of age is only 2 sided... choose to serve or not to serve.  You're a fuskering asshole.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:41 | 2317019 M.R.GOLD.Risiko...
M.R.GOLD.Risikokapitalgeber's picture

Exactly. Thank you Zymurguy.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 17:42 | 2317694 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

amrka, fuck yeah. . .

he volunteered his life for the country

party on dudes, don't forget to tell each other where the 'hot chicks' and great coffee/booze is.

hopefully the coffee shop has wi-fi so you can surf your cool slave-toys while watching free pussy serve ya - that's what you fight for, yeah?

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:42 | 2317028 Dicite justitiam
Dicite justitiam's picture

We Americans are all paid assassins and mercenaries, and it holds true whatever nationalistic jersey you wear.  Some of us did the heavy lifting while others enjoyed the benefits.  Do you see us cheerleading our imperialistic tendency?  Fuck off. 

It's a competitive world based on power, and physical power is the most effective form of it, despite how vulgar it is, despite how it uncomfortable it resides besides your 'conscience'.  Eat ass, pal.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:55 | 2317087 q99x2
q99x2's picture

And the "list". I wanna see names, addresses and a plan tough guy. Bet you can't do that. Betcha.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:02 | 2317112 optimator
optimator's picture

You said that without a clue as to when he was in, where he served, what his rank was.  So that's your opinion of  any and everyone that's ever served.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 16:29 | 2317506 pods
pods's picture

He brought to light the hypocrisy of an article which is about vanishing freedoms written by someone who put his military service in the + column.

Our military has been used to expand the USD hegemony.  

So you cannot bitch about government power while on the other hand wanting credit for being apart of that power.

pods

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:40 | 2317228 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

Good point. Millitary is just a gang of assholes doing what they are told in the name of the bizarro interests of insecure megalomaniac Financial Capitalists and nothing more. Brian you put your life on the line because you were young, foolish, and indoctrinated. They say unto you: Brian get on a plane and kill that guy he's causing trouble. Now come home Brian and don't ask too many fucking questions. America gets killers at a bargain too as millitary salaries aren't exactly Lehmanesque. I'd imagine contract killers charge much more (think BlackRock) in other markets. I love our economic system. Hedge Fund managers get paid millions to raise money and earn returns that generally don't keep pace with inflation while young men like Brian don body armor, Ghillie suits, and inject testosterone to let off a few shots and be extracted from hostile settings for pennies on the dollar.

Risk your life and don't get paid for it because its an "honor" doing this service to your country?

Now that shit is fucking funny.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:06 | 2317300 karp4cy
karp4cy's picture

The are great generations, and then there is this one.  Clearly your perspective does not reach beyond the tip of your finger gliding across your iPad.  It is my sincerest of hopes that you and your loved ones expire before the consequences of this seemingly growing lack of awareness reach your immediate environs and destroy much of what you now take for granted.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:38 | 2317357 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

You dumb condescending motherfucker.....the men of yesteryear were no different (especially genetically you nitwit) but instead their environment was slightly more conformist. These "great generations" (aka the assholes who got us here) were just exposed to different stimuli such as religion, racism, and other "moral values" which predicated their "greatness" in the form of valor. SHEEP ARE SHEEP. YOUR WAR HEROES ARE TODAY"S IPAD/FACEBOOK CADRE. THEY DID WHAT THEY WERE TOLD AND ARE VERY COMPLICIT IN THE PRESENT MORASS WE CALL SOCIETY. IF I BELIEVED THAT I WOULD SEE MY GRANDMOTHER IN HEAVEN THEN OF COURSE IM GOING TO HAVE BIG BALLS AND SNIPE SOME NAZIS. Does that make me "GREAT"? If you gave the men of DDAY weed, internet porn, easy pussy then I can guarantee you they arent jumping. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GREATNESS JUST STATISTICAL ABERRATION. WE ARE THE PRODUCT OF GENES AND ENVIRONMENT. GREATNESS AS YOU PUT IT IS A MYSTICAL CONCEPT ENSTILLED IN SHEEP LIKE YOURSELF NOT TOO QUESTION THE "GREAT" MEN. I have news for you.......WE ARE ALL EERILY SIMILAR. Put most in my shoes and they will behave like me. If you castrate your penis and mind then most will opine/live/bleat like you do. Does putting your dick in a man's mouth once make you gay (your thoughts are surely marshalled on that subject)? Does being born in a certain time period and doing what you are told make you "great"? Idiots like you need to expire so we can get at the marrow of this oppression and not make veiled references to the good old days as if humans are fundamentally different from generation to generation you asshole. THERE IS NO TIME TRAVEL AND HITLER BLEW HIS BRAINS OUT AS THE ALLIES TOOK BERLIN. WATCH SOME WAR FOOTAGE AND TELL ME ABOUT THE "GREAT GENERATIONS." HONOR AIN'T WHAT IT USED TO BE YOU PUSSY.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:59 | 2317438 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

So does putting your dick in a man's mouth once make you gay?

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 16:07 | 2317451 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

Karp seems bisexual or a straight for pay type which is a gray area. Basically, what I mean is if you would put on a uniform and shower with dudes and live in barracks with only dudes for very little compensation then you would probably suck dick for a few dollars more. If a general told a private to give him head, is it a done deal? I can't call it. My wisdom is obviously expansive and logic compelling but as a man who knows his (and hoes') limtations I can say that I'm not an arbiter of homo shit although I do support gay people everywhere in fighting Republican insanity. For specifics, I would just consult a fag.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 17:48 | 2317712 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

"putting your dick" in a man's mouth makes you a man, simply by default of having a dick to put.  everything else is just fear and labeling.

and the fear of being labeled, that's palpable.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 18:07 | 2317755 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

No you are wrong in my humble estimation. There is a spectrum. The aforementioned is relative but unless this discussion takes on some niilistic tangent I think most would agree its more heterosexual (from a male perspective) to watch college basketball/masturbate to Brazilian girls with large asses than it is to have anal sex with a crying man in a dress and mask reeking of nitrates with showtunes bumping and a well dressed mannequin bedside. As limiting and ill-posed as they are, there are gender roles in our society that run deeper than "fear" as you put it, Therefore, getting a blowjob from a man puts someone in a different class (not a worse one however-words are very fraile here) than another who doesn't. For instance, if one molests a child then he/she becomes a pedophile. Whether it's moral or not is another question but we do categorize and judge on earth. This process is much deeper than "fear and labeling" and so your oversimpication rubs me the wrong way because you are hinting at a very insidious type of politcal correctness that obscures TRUTH and MEANING. Fags suck dick. Straight men/Lesbians/Bisexual women eat pussy. Labels are descriptive.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 20:08 | 2318023 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I'm going to disagree with you Larry, which I'm sure won't surprise you.

a mouth is a mouth, an ass is an ass.  if you think that loving your bros but only fucking hoes makes one a "man" fine, I'm not as concerned about the actual labels as I am with the obvious truths.

men love each other, respect each other, hang out and have fun with each other - and mostly use women for fucking, or to marry and breed with - again, fine, not my gig, but it is the majority story - if "women" want to work that vein to get what they want from it, fine - again, not my gig.  it goes with the label-territory tho'

your fondness for porn memes, and desiring to see TeeVee ladies engage with black sports figures (a post later in this thread) shows your allegiance to watching - sports, TV, porn, whatever - you like to watch.

and yes, gender roles say mens don't do mens, mens fuck pussy - you mention

very insidious type of political correctness that obscures TRUTH and MEANING.

and then go straight *cough* into your own labeling - you're so gendered man it's impossible to point out the truth here, but here goes - males and females, sex types, not strictly polarised, as they present on sliding hormonal, hence body type, scales.  sexual preference are mostly private, but policed by gendered males, aka "men" -

cui bono?

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 23:57 | 2318494 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

I like pieces of your argument. Actually, I don't own a TV but do loathe CNBC particularly the on-air "personalities" whether its a scumbag like Steve Liesman talking about/blowing Bernanke or Bartiromo going down on a homeless person (chimera). Rupaul also has a TV show called Drag Race which tests mainstream ideas about gender. Yours are pretty conventional and boring to me. Get this through YOUR FUCKING HEAD: I NEED TO USE WORDS TO DESCRIBE THINGS. So, if I say blowing a guy is more faggy than throwing a football into his nuts/banging his girl then I don't really need to hear about aethetics, semiotics, or gender "policing." Humans breathe, eat pizza, and defacate, am I labeling anyone? REMEMBER WHEN I SAID YOU WERE TENDING TOWARD SOME ARBITRARY POLITICAL CORRECTNESS???? WELL, YOU FUCKING FOUND IT SWIMMINGLY LIKE A SPERM WITH AMAZING MOTILITY. Anytime "polarised", "gendered male", and "body type" are in close syntactical proximity surely I'm going to get lectured on gender, the menstrual cycle, or a lesbian seagull but I DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THAT SHIT. You could learn alot from Al Goldstein. 

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 02:55 | 2318694 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

whoooooooooshhhhhh - the sound of my "FUCKING POINT" going right over yer head.

you've man-aged to label me, so doubtful you'll "hear" anything now.  it's not about "political correctness" nor sexual orientation, nor body parts, nor bleeding. . .

it's about human bodies, their infinite variety in looks, labels and presentations - and how they reduce themselves to stereotypes in order to be "seen" - or those who don't, and are mocked & penalised accordingly.  it's about cultural fictions put forward to limit the image-inations, and it's about making sure the people feel limited and small when they compare themselves to other fictions, particularly "media" ones.  it's about either/or choices in sexual expression, about being used and abused, and discarded, daily.  and it's about reclaiming your mind, and body, and seeing through the non-sense.

but hey, the truth is, I don't give a fuck - about what you believe or how you act - we're all just entertainment for each other in the meantime, and maybe ZH gets more page hits and new trolls sign up to play on the threads. . . I'd rather ZH were here than not, and who knows how long we'll get to entertain ourselves in meaningless exchanges such as this.

 

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 08:26 | 2318926 karp4cy
karp4cy's picture

Mr. Davis, if pre-adolescent shock-speak were an Olympic sport, you, sir, would actually provide something of value to the planet.  One day, when you reach intellectual puberty, you will discover that expletives and homoerotic musings are a weak substitute for civilized discourse, and generally lead to your views being discounted out-of-hand.  Now run along and play, and leave the discussions here to the adults.

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 16:22 | 2320361 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

Civilized?? Go have tea with some Diplomats. Lowlife. Is the military civilized? Manners are an aritifice of deceit which something people like you cling to along with your boyfriend's diminutive herpes-ridden penis.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 20:43 | 2318087 cgbspender
cgbspender's picture

+10 just for mentioning nitrates.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 16:09 | 2317458 piceridu
piceridu's picture

+1...wouldn't it be nice to finally live in world where they threw a war and nobody came?

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:24 | 2317348 Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

Strange. All I ever did in the Coast Guard was risk my life to save other peoples' lives. You may think "that shit is fucking funny."  I think you're a fucking asshole!

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:31 | 2317364 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

No you conformist prick. You did the bidding of big pharma and rightwing extremists by interdicting illegal drug shipments. To me your life is worthless, and so I don't think its fair (or at least misleading) to say you risked anything. You should have jumped into the fucking cold water.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:45 | 2317403 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

"Fuck off. That doesn't make you a patriot, it makes you a paid assassin, a mercenary"

When I volunteered back in 1969 none of my comrades in arms thought of themselves as assassins or mercenaries. I spent my time as a hostage along the nuclear trip wire in Berlin in a heavy brigade surrounded by 22 divisions of East Germans and Russians. As long as nothing happened it was just one big party out on the town. But as I often explained to the soldiers under my charge, including many serving out the final year of their enlistment after a tour of duty in Viet Nam, that if anything were to happen, it would have been vastly more dangerous than sevice in Viet Nam and almost certainly fatal to us all.

Soldiers are never aware of their real nature of their roles when they enlist. They only figure that out later, generally when they are much older and long after reentry into civilian life.

I daresay that most of the infantry grunts in Iraq and Afganistan think of themselves as sitting duck targets trying desparately to stay alive rather than merks or assassins - and under remarkably unpleasant conditions compared to my own service as a sitting duck for Russian tactical nukes back in 1970-71.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:56 | 2317428 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

Dear MrPalladium,

Thank you for being part of the Brinksmanship complex. Where would we be without your youthful discretion and exubereance for containing communism? Your post does at least hint at the lunacy and inferior intellect (or at least knowledge) of most millitary personnel. It also speaks volumes to the type of nation we live in where the youth actually sign up for this shit (although I ahve heard of cases where judges would allow criminals to enlist in order to avoid incarceration). Again, to me its very funny to think of waking up one day and saying I'm going to risk my ass so Corporate America can get some defense contracts, a President can improve his approval rating by being a hard ass, repatriate oil, etc.

Sincerely,

Larry Davis

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 16:56 | 2317596 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Actually your the vastly inferior intelect sir. How utterly stupid you are about 18 yr old men signing up to join the military. Corporate America and the connection to defense contracts are not on thier minds. Its beer, pussy and having a good time. Often that includes travels on big bad ass equipment in foreign lands and hangin out with your buddies raising a bit of hell and trying to get back from the bars.  Obviously you were into books, missed all the pussy, and drink.....tea!!!

Poor stupid bastard!!!! Missed out on lifes thrills. Me..... 20 yrs USMC, got laid, drunk, and traveled the world. My path to ZH was obviously a lot more fun.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 17:11 | 2317617 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

Talk about pussy on the internet but I really do it (and now) models, actresses, MTV Vj's, holler at your boy. Little bit of traveling too. What you really mean is that you wasted 20 years of your life and now you want to brag to cyberspace while deluding yourself about how fun it was interacting with a bunch of idiots from Kansas like you that had to join the army to meet ugly asian hookers because paying is your only option. Some people don't need the millitary for pussy, boozing, or causing trouble. At the end of the day, if you have to join the marines for "beer, pussy and having a good time" then you are really fucked. You will probably die in shithole VA hospital while I'm in Biarrtiz with a woman 10-20 years my junior (I'm 29 now). Enjoy your post USMC years bitch. 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 20:53 | 2318110 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

You really are a legend in your own mind!  LOLOL

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 00:11 | 2318531 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

YES I AM. 

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 16:35 | 2320404 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

How shallow you are. It's not the age of the women its the quality that counts. I have a fine wife and do not need to boost my shallow ego by hanging around younger ditzs who are hanging on to me for my money. Shallow indeed!!!

Again, You poor bastard!!!

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 19:33 | 2320827 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

Would your wife get turned watching you fuck a younger more attractive woman? Even with a fly girl, don't you want to fuck other girls? Are you a fag? Just because you have a fine wife doesnt mean you shouldnt stray from time to time in respectful way (she is watching). Based on how pathetic you sound, I'm pretty sure she DESPERATELy wants to fuck other guys too so you should just let her especially guys with bigger dicks. She will sore the next day, but a good sore.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 17:43 | 2317700 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

When I said people in the military were misguided I wasn't fucking kidding.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 17:55 | 2317724 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

wow, u r so cool.

Me..... 20 yrs USMC, got laid, drunk, and traveled the world.

got to play with "bad ass equipment in foreign lands" with ur buds, occupying other people's countries, terrifying the locals on ur "big ass toys" - and all the pussy you could find with ur drunken buds.  your family must be so proud.

amrka, fuck(ed) yeah.

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 16:39 | 2320413 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

UR right. I call it youthful indescretions but my point to numbnuts was that 18yr olds go off to the military for a host of reasons and NONE of them were for the reasons he postulated.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 22:09 | 2318266 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Harlequin: Just my opinion, others may go their own way. But I find you a reprehensible shell of a man. A man who from the confines of safety would presume to judge a man who is placed in harms way. As Shakespeare said "he jests at scars that never felt a wound". May you come to know what it is to bear them

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 00:27 | 2318521 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

WRONG ASSHOLE. MEN AREN'T GENERALLY PLACeED IN HARMS WAY [PASSIVE VOICE]. CONVERSELY,THEY PLACE THEMSELVES (ACTIVE) IN HARMS WAY FOR GLORY, PUSSY, AND TO CONFORM TO SOME STANDARD OF HEROISM THAT WERE TAUGHT TO UPHOLD AS IDIOT LITTLE BOYS. FOR ALL YOU GRAMMARIANS THE ABOVE SENTENCES ARE A GOOD EXAMPLES OF ACTIVE VS PASSIVE VERB CONSTRUCTIONS. FOR ALL YOU FREEDOM LOVERS AND DECENT PEOPLE, YOU UNDERSTAND THAT VOLUNTEERING FOR THE US MILITARY DOESN'T MAKE YOU A DEFENDER OF ANYTHING BUT THE POLITICIANS AND UPPER CLASS WHILE THE REST OF US ROT BARELY SUBSISTING. TIME TO MOVE ON TO THE SPIRIT WORLD OLD MAN. YOUR POINT OF VIEW SUCKS DICK. ENTIENDES?

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 02:07 | 2318668 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

All Caps. Yet another skewed personality screaming to be heard. And at the end of the day, there is only you, your profanity and your impotence as a human being. (eom)

 

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 04:08 | 2318722 Havana White
Havana White's picture

C'mon, Gringo, is "reprehensible shell of a man" any more considerate than "asshole"?  Let me guess -- you were one of the first in your neighborhood to put a "Support Our Troops" sticker on your bumper and believed in its implicit threat that one who didn't cheer on the killing would be regarded as unAmerican.  And you uttered "damn right" listening to the flagwavers on tv saying "All I need to know about Islam is nine-eleven."  Please accept my apology if I've got you wrong.

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 03:50 | 2318715 Havana White
Havana White's picture

@Harlequin:  Ever notice that two out of every three former servicemen you meet just happened to be in "special forces"?  Never hear "I was a United States Marine.  I ordered and stocked administrative supplies."

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:23 | 2316950 5880
5880's picture

Maybe he's really hard up

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:31 | 2316985 WALLST8MY8BALL
WALLST8MY8BALL's picture

Jennifer the afternoon bartender is a nice girl but i really miss Sunny there.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 19:30 | 2317945 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

The state and federal police will finally see how much there bosses care about them.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:21 | 2316942 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Delusions of power

1.Guns replace brains

2.Gold replaces brains

3.Internet blather replaces brains and common sense

4.You are not smarter than you really are, no matter how much you say so.

5.Not realizing ALL THINGS MUST PASS.

6.Assuming your family/friends/community will stand shoulder to shoulder with you come the collapse of anything. You are on your own bitch.

7.Not realizing everyone lies all the time.

8.Not realizing you are safer with nothing than a backload of burdens.

9.Not learning how to act like a scared Monkey.

10.In the end strategy is everything.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:28 | 2316968 economics9698
economics9698's picture
      
“No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.”  Patton

 

When the time come make sure you kill more of them, then check out.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:56 | 2317090 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

dat nigga is my favorite general.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:00 | 2317102 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

economics9698

"When the time come make sure you kill more of them, then check out."

One would imagine that you could subvert many more people than you kill when you stop thinking like a caveman and start thinking like say a conman or Lindsay Lohan.

Bitch don't do shit yet is in the news every fucking day. She is a genius at media manipulation. So is Palin.

I think I would prefer checking out like Deprak Chopra with a willing army of knotheads following my every suggestion.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:51 | 2317065 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

I believe he overlooked the obvious.....the (very intentional) maleducation of American children. Revisionist history ala socialiste has birthed consumers instead of citizens.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:56 | 2317091 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Gringo Viejo

"the (very intentional) maleducation of American children"

The smart ones will educate themselves on their own. The auotdidacts.

It doesn't matter how they are educated if they just don't have the capacity to learn.

The stupid are a constant which exist in greater number than the intelligent.

 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:59 | 2317096 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

It's been over 40 years since I've read it but if memory serves, the societal slogan in Huxley's BRAVE NEW WORLD was "Work Earn Buy."

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 18:05 | 2317752 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

and if you find yourself losing hope, take some time for Soma.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:59 | 2317098 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

My "light at the end of the tunnel" is the knowledge that despite all the impending revolution/slavery, talk, the description most give is of a nation ALREADY enslaved......and these "powers" NEED us to make enough money to buy their STUFF.

THEY need to fix the "recession", so they can get back to their profit-making.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:00 | 2317103 SamAdams1234
SamAdams1234's picture

There is a difference?

 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 16:58 | 2317599 Ag1761
Ag1761's picture

Remember the English dude Adam Smith?

 

Aye, I remember the prick who drinks beer in a coffee shop and gets the fundamentals wrong.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 20:21 | 2318050 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

The great Scottish intellectual revolution and industrial and scientific revolution was fed by a unique scottish institution. Public Education, long before other countries of Europe, England included, the Scottish Parliemant decreed that each community would use public funds raised through taxation to build a school house and to hire a teacher.

Once universal education began to capture great minds that otherwise would never have seen the light of day, Scotland began a world class series of intellectual, indutrial and scientific feats.

In this case at least, taxes and public expenditure, plus public control of schooling did have a positive result. Even the smallest communties in the highlands sported a school house and teacher. Scotland set a standard for the rest of Europe.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 21:00 | 2318126 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

That's a neat bit of history.  It also reminds me of the one room school houses on the praries in the US and Canada back in the day.  But public education today is a monopoly of incompetence overlaid onto an urbanized/politicized (union monopolized) environment.  Slightly different from those days...the solutions will be different also - like school vouchers, and a combination of the best public and private schools can offer.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 12:55 | 2316836 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Damn Tyler give me some time to process the last guest post.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 12:57 | 2316844 praps
praps's picture

1.  The vast majority of the wealth of the country (real estate, stocks, bonds) is owned by a tiny minority.  All the other problems come from that.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:09 | 2316891 Saro
Saro's picture

Cart before the horse.  All of the "other problems" have concentrated wealth at the top.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:26 | 2316961 Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

post hoc ergo propter hoc

It's not the concentration of wealth that is the issue, it's the environment which dictates through coercion the funneling of money to the "self-proclaimed" elite at the top.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:45 | 2316989 Saro
Saro's picture

+1. Exactly.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:23 | 2316947 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

praps

Problems don't arise from people owning shit. They arise because damn fools think they are entitled to shit they didn't work for.

Even gaming the system is work.


Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:40 | 2317017 crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture

you mean like just about every corp exec?  

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:53 | 2317075 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

crawldaddy

Which one the free stuff from not working or the gaming the system is work?

I'm starting to think what I see is jealousy. Here we have groups of people, rich and poor, who saw the loopholes and played them to the best of their abilities.

Other, the not as smart, people naturally feel left out because they just didn't bother to think.

Now it's too late. All the strategies have been used and the low hanging fruit of easy money has nearly disapated.

So the not as smart are angry, very angry. They want their cut. They feel they deserve it.

In the end they will only piss away anything handed to them.

Meanwhile the smarter ones are out there discovering brand new ways to keep their"hard earned" surplus safe.


Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:45 | 2317244 skepticCarl
skepticCarl's picture

Gully, I don't read all caps, or all bold posts, so I don't know what you said.  Please write normally, and let the text of your message stand out, not your emotions.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:06 | 2317298 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

skepticCarl

Because it is safe to post this, what with all your snobbery and whatnot, your wife said you have a microphalus and she fucks everything within eyesight.


Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:00 | 2316863 machinegear
machinegear's picture

5.  Electoral college - We do not have a popular vote.  The masses just simply can't be trusted.  We choose special delegates to enact the "final solution" (pun intended).  Sound free?

 

Oh. Yeah. And those living in the Mid-West or Western states where the population pales to the larger population centers like New York or California would be soooooo "free" if we did away with the Electoral College. They wouldn't even have a VOICE! I stopped reading after #5.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:11 | 2316900 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Indeed.  Under the electoral college system, individual voters who have the greatest representation in the Presidential election reside in VT, AK and WY. 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:16 | 2316921 WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

Does AK stand for:

Alaska

Arkansas or

Avtomat Kalishnikov??? Never could figure that shit out!

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:24 | 2316953 XitSam
XitSam's picture

AK=Alaska, AR=Arkansas

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:25 | 2316956 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

...and yet you could sneak pillowy interns into the oval office...

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:13 | 2316913 Saro
Saro's picture

The number of electors a state gets are assigned by population anyway, so I'm not sure what your point is.  The difference in election results between the electoral college and a popular vote is typically meaningless.  Only when a race is very close can there really be a discrepancy.

Initially, the electoral college was devised because transmitting information about candidates and elections throughout the states was very difficult, so each state instead elected people to essentially become informed about the race and make the final decision.  This convention became mostly obsolete with the invention of the radio, moreso with the TV, and any last vestiges of relevancy were put to rest with the internet.

Time to move on, I say.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:29 | 2316978 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Saro.  I think you agree with machinegear.  He's disagreeing with the author, who argues that the electoral college is problematic.  Took me a couple reads through before I realized what he was saying.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:54 | 2317005 Saro
Saro's picture

I don't think I do, as I also don't see a reason to keep the electoral college around. 

Removing the electoral college doesnt make us a direct democracy, it just means we vote for the president directly, rather than vote for people who then vote for the president.

Either way, it's a non-issue most of the time, since electors are always already pledged to one of the candidates.

EDIT:  Lotta junks rolling in with little explanation.  Makes me wonder if people realize what the electoral college even is.  When you pull the lever for a presidential candidate, you're not voting for that candidate, you're voting for an elector who is pledged to vote for that candidate.  Each state gets a number of electors based on their relative population. Getting rid of the electoral college would mean that your vote would go for a presidential candidate directly, rather than through a useless intermediary. I didn't realize that was such a controversial proposition . . .

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:00 | 2317101 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

I think you're getting junked because you seem to not grasp the implications of the direct democracy.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:17 | 2317166 Saro
Saro's picture

That's just it; the electoral college has nothing to do with us being or not being a representative democracy.  Maybe I'm missing something.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:00 | 2317285 maximin thrax
maximin thrax's picture

Picture the 2000 Florida recount in every state, every city and county of this nation, because every vote counts when the electoral college is scrapped. After all the suits are settled we'll know who's president - about ten years after the election.

Imagine a presidential candidate, with popular support, marching on the White House with 10,000 armed partisans to take the presidency by force six months after inauguration date has passed without a clear winner.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:12 | 2317313 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Well, at least by having guns drawn, it'd would be the most honest form of US government in my lifetime.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:23 | 2317186 ATM
ATM's picture

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed68.asp

Not sure where you get your information but I think you should go to one of the actual sources.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:16 | 2316922 jpmrwb
jpmrwb's picture

machinegear,

I agree with you. I almost choked but I continued on with the list. First and foremost this country was set up as a Representative Republic. Madison knew that all pure democracies end in ruin. (Majority Rule) That was the same reason that the states use to choose their senators. If one wants to see what a pure democracy is just look at the French Revolution and see who the tyrant was as a result.

Peace be brother

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:22 | 2316944 Saro
Saro's picture

Pure democracies end in ruin, it's true.  But so do representative democracies.

Whether you vote directly on a law or elect someone else to vote for it for you, the end result of that law is the same.  Sure, in direct democracies, people have the incentive to vote for laws that benefit themselves, but in representative democracies, they have the incentive to vote for people who promise them laws that benefit them.

The only real difference is that in representative democracies, the intermediary politicians get to enrich themselves by skimming off the top as the money changes hands.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:30 | 2316981 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Whether you vote directly on a law or elect someone else to vote for it for you, the end result of that law is the same. 

 

Cite some evidence for that claim, please.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:44 | 2317035 Saro
Saro's picture

Imagine a vote between me, you, and a third party.

Direct Democracy: Since you are the richest between us, the third party and I vote to take all your wealth and redistribute it to ourselves.  Vote is 2 to 1.

End Result:  We have all your stuff.

Representative Democracy: Since you are the richest between us, I campaign on a platform of taking all your wealth and redistributing it to ourselves. Vote is 2 to 1.

End result:  We have all your stuff.

Which one of those two scenarios are you more comfortable with, and does it really make a difference which way an unjust law is accomplished?

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:01 | 2317105 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

When you're evidence starts with "imagine," it's tough to read on, bro.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:20 | 2317177 Saro
Saro's picture

I can see how my comment may have been misinterpreted. Let me rephrase:

For any given piece of legislation that becomes law, do the effects of that law depend on whether or not it was voted on by the population at large or their representatives instead?

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:26 | 2317196 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

I'm thinking of the issue differently.  The laws will be different because the composition and authority of a government elected by direct democracy will be different than one elected by an electoral college. 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:31 | 2317203 Saro
Saro's picture

That's a possibility, but to turn the question around, do you have evidence of that? :)

Looking around, it seems to me that representative democracy hasn't really saved us from from those particular problems, except perhaps to create an elite ruling class.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:59 | 2317286 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

I think America's largest problem is its size. Size really distorts problems. Let's say your girl has a really small vagina and your dick is gigantic and freakish (3-4ft with girth). It's going to be really hard to have sex. That's america right now. Direct Democracy or Representative Democracy don't really matter when system is so encumbered by beauracracy, privalege, and mismanagement. Democracy isn't the answer. There are so many fucking religious idiots in America.......how do you think they are going to vote? What if the bible tells them Jesus wants Candidate A to win? What we need is a government that is more scientific and administered by people with relatively high IQs coming from stable households. 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 18:13 | 2317777 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

y'know, you were making some good points upthread, but now you're just wanking.

 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 18:27 | 2317805 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

Wrong again. We need a more modern and intelligent form of government maybe based on machine learning or some shit. Humans are fucking the country up. Let's get modern and progressive. Democracy was antiquity. Do we really need to try to emulate a government designed by Greeks thousands of years ago? Where is the fucking progress? This shit isn't working and needs a drastic overhaul. Direct vs Representative Democracy? Does anyone really think thats going to make a fucking difference? The income needs to be redistributed also. I know no one like communism, but we need some of it these days. 

 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 19:39 | 2317962 DeltaDawn
DeltaDawn's picture

Larry, nothing is as it is presented to the sheeple. God knows what has really gone on in the name of the U.S.  All the shinanigans will come to a halt when we lose global fiat status and left with our misdirected, irrational selves, priorities and systems.  

Communism is your solution? Just another feudal system. Look at all the Russian billionaires, former communist henchmen who bought blackmarket goods and special treatment and were at the right place when privatization occured.  People like you will be slaughtered mercilessly.

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 00:37 | 2318572 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

No you dipshit I'm not getting slaughtered because I would have bounced long before any trouble on that scale and I would be on a beach with a nice loosely moraled coed. Communism isn't the answer indeed.......but a change of pace is overdue. We do need to steal apage from communism redistribute the income. It's like fucking. You can fuck an armpit, mouth, vagina, or ocular cavity. Make your own style. Be creative. Im not saying get Stalin back in office, but I am saying let's change things and in the process take some money from rich people and give it to poor people. Are you scared of taking back the money rich people have been leaching from this broken system? You think its better to them keep it? No big deal. Savings and Loan.....who cares? Predatory lending? Keep it. Ponzi scam, manipulating markets. ok just dont do it again. Well not me. I think we should have really high taxes on the ultra wealthy and I think you are a scared pussy.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 21:16 | 2318164 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

"I know no one like communism, but we need some of it these days."

 

No one likes communism - seriously?  Dude, we're not talking about FB or your own self perception.  Don't you know how many 10s of millions of people have been killed by communists in the past 100 years?  Democracy is the worst form of government - except for all the rest.  Please don't enlighten us with how your communist revolution might be pulled off...

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:16 | 2317324 Shitters_Full
Shitters_Full's picture

I think your argument is shifting, no?  The electoral college is in place solely for presidential elections.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:25 | 2317351 Saro
Saro's picture

Yeah, people here seem to be conflating the electoral college with representative democracy for some reason, and I ended up responding to both points.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:03 | 2317119 machinegear
machinegear's picture

Jpmrwb, you raise a good point that I would like to expand on. Once one believes in THE United States vs. THESE United States it is an easy extrapolation to make that we should go one step further and institute mob rule. After all, we are ONE Nation right? I am sure the rugged citizens of North Dakota are perfectly fine with letting their lives be controlled by New Yorkers. What could go wrong? Think if only New York and California made all the decisions for this Nation? Our finances would be? Our gun laws would be? The truth is, if it wasn't for these smaller populated states holding back the many self destructive inclinations of the people of New York and California this "Nation" would be a whole lot worse off.... in my humble opinion.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:15 | 2317161 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

I am sure the rugged citizens of North Dakota are perfectly fine with letting their lives be controlled by New Yorkers. What could go wrong?

 

Precious. 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:33 | 2317182 Saro
Saro's picture

How does removing the electoral college in presidential elections allow New York to determine gun laws for North Dakota?  Can you elaborate?

Really, it's the senate that was set up to prevent crap like that.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 16:25 | 2317487 machinegear
machinegear's picture

Sure thing Saro. A direct election of the President would turn into a basic popularity contest in that the winner must successfully appease a majority of voters. Being North Dakota has only 680k people a presidential candidate's need to visit and pander to Dakotians is almost nonexistent. The number of possible votes, even if the candidate won them ALL, just isn't worth the campaign time. Therefore any smart candidate would stick around the major population centers where the most voters are, like New York, pandering to -their- desires like strict gun control. Pinned flash hiders any one?

I know the President doesn't have legislative powers, but the President does have a bully pulpit which can advance legislation; legislation that is in opposition to a Dakotian's way of life. Think Obamacare.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 17:21 | 2317652 Saro
Saro's picture

"Therefore any smart candidate would stick around the major population centers where the most voters are, like New York"

Isn't that still the case, though?  New York is worth 31 electoral votes, and ND is just 3.  I also note that the electoral college didn't prevent Obama from being elected, nor prevent Obamacare from coming to pass.

What we really need is less federal government and more state rights.  Then, deciding who becomes president has about the same importance as electing a local dog catcher, rather than arguing over which asshole gets to be "King of the United States".

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 19:54 | 2318006 machinegear
machinegear's picture

What we really need is less federal government and more state rights.

 

Hear! Hear! I couldn't agree more Saro.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:12 | 2316865 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

12.  The Department of Defense is for defense.*

13.  We have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.**   

 

* Defense of the Petrol Dollar

** The term "We" does not include Iranians or anyone else unwilling to trade their natural resources for our petrol dollars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUEGHdQO7WA&feature=player_detailpage

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:13 | 2316908 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

14, 15 and 16. Kim Kardashian's ginormous ass.

-Chumblez.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:23 | 2316952 lazarus
lazarus's picture

That's no "dirty little secret."

Her ass be "like cottage cheese in a trash bag." - Paris Hilton

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:09 | 2317002 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

flag as "junk" (1)

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 17:01 | 2317606 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

Plus 1! becuase you are good for it!

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:45 | 2317037 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

add another number in the list.

Yesterday, US offered a US$10 million bounty for a person who is a threat to INDIA. WTF.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/u-s-offers-10-million-bounty-hafiz...

 

 

 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:18 | 2317329 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Sounds like another CIA funding scam.

1) Create "Bad Guy" and fund his militant group.

2) Have him attack politically sensitive target.

3) US State Dept. announces $10M bounty.

4) Have operatives take him out, collect money.

5) Goto Step 1.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 17:01 | 2317604 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

hedgeless_horseman

12. The Department of Defense is for defense.*

13. We have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.**

 

* Defense of the Petrol Dollar

** The term "We" does not include Iranians or anyone else unwilling to trade their natural resources for our petrol dollars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUEGHdQO7WA&feature=player_detailpage

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7AWnfFRc7g

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:02 | 2316869 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

Nothing is really free, not here and for sure not anywhere else!

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:02 | 2316870 crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture

the government can take your land at anytime and toss a few pennies at you using emminent domain.

you never really truly own any land in the US, stop rent ie property tax payments and the govt will take it.

Drug wars means that police can enter your home basically anytime the want and fuck it up. All they need is some drug addict to mention your address to them.

Dont get me started with the Patriot act, nothing ptriotic about it, its simply the "fuck the 4th amendment act"

and I could go on and on but it just depresses me.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:25 | 2316957 Saro
Saro's picture

You don't even own your own body in this "free" country.

If you don't believe me, try selling a kidney sometime.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:47 | 2317048 Saro
Saro's picture

Serial junker, or angry dialysis patient? You decide!

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:02 | 2317289 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

Aside from body part sales, try getting an unvaccinated kid into public school.

 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 18:24 | 2317801 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

with respect, don't.

don't allow them to dumb down any kid you can teach/inform/protect - if one understands vaccinations, then amrka's skool system should be an obvious next step in awareness.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:57 | 2317279 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

crawldaddy said:

you never really truly own any land in the US, stop rent ie property tax payments and the govt will take it.

Allodial Titles, bitchez.

 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:05 | 2316877 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture
  1. Suspension of Habeus Corpus
  2. Reversal of Miranda
Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:15 | 2316880 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

13. Justice Department - An organization which ignores rampant financial fraud yet vigorously pursues anyone unlucky enough to be caught with a dime bag. A place where they gorge themselves on $16 muffins as they surf various porn sites on their desktops while criminals like Corzine and Dimon walk free. Where DOJ prosecutors accept cash bribes from corrupt financial executives yet are just slapped on the wrist. A  place where they turned gun-running into an artform which resulted in the deaths of U.S. and Mexican citizens.  Sound free?

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:07 | 2316885 3FrenchHens
3FrenchHens's picture

The illusions of wealth...  stocks (manipulated), bonds (backed by what?) fiat (needs no explain), IRA's (ours? for how long?) house (falling values & increasing taxes)  etc.. 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:10 | 2316887 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

big bri...served in the marines?  living in manhatten?  whining about politics and finance?  get a life.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:20 | 2316940 Cardinal Fang
Cardinal Fang's picture

Exactly, one thing you learn from that (usmc) proximity to govt is that spouting off about problems is a waste of breath.

You learn to keep yer head down and yer mouth shut.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:15 | 2317160 optimator
optimator's picture

And your feet dry.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 15:26 | 2317353 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

nice to recognize a guy who's been to the circus.

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