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Guest Post: American Military Pit Bulls And Their Handlers

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Ben Tanosborn

American Military Pit Bulls And Their Handlers

It is not what the few do but what the many don’t do.  That really represents what we are all about, co-conspirators in a sea of silence.  Marines who view despicable acts committed by other marines remain silent; the officers, who are well aware of this behavior, condone it, invariably following the “ethical criminal” attitude in war morality of “when in war, shit happens”; and the nation prefers to play the part of Pontius Pilates. 

Hillary Clinton, most everyone in our government, and those hypocrites at the Pentagon should not be acting surprised at the outrageous and contemptuous behavior of those four marines from Camp Lejeune desecrating the Taliban’s corpses.  The four have received no different training, or possess different brainwashed mindsets, from the other 200,000+ marines now on active duty, or the 1,600,000+ empire-warriors comprising our international police force.

No, the Marine Corps does not teach its men to do such detestable and gravely  outrageous things, none of the military services do; but neither do they teach them not to do them, or demand that honorable conduct be peer-enforced.  Therein lays the problem, honorable conduct taking a back seat to fellowship and camaraderie among fellow servicemen, particularly marines.  And not just honorable conduct but humane, moral conduct as well!

And no, these are not only isolated cases that occur; only isolated in how they come to be public knowledge, their frequency just a minuscule fraction of the instances in which they happen.  Ask any member of the military.  I have, and ‘been there myself.  If the academies do not demand, and unequivocally enforce, that honorable conduct be peer-enforced, how can such be expected to take place in the enlisted ranks? 

Human rights and dignity have never been part of the military code of ethics, not in the officer nor in the enlisted ranks.  In fact, ethics most often stands in the way of all military missions no matter how we try to rationalize soldiers’ behavior, embellish it, or try to find glory where there is none.   American citizenry, no different from that in other countries, has been content to have its military stick to vague or irrelevant terminology such as that used at the Military Academy at West Point: “Duty, Honor and Country.”

West Point’s Cadet Honor Code, similar to that of the other military academies, states that “A cadet will not lie, cheat, or steal…” but it took until 1970 to have a most important clause added, as military criminal behavior in Vietnam was becoming better known through inductees returning home, or tolerate those who do. And, as it became evident with the cheating scandal at Annapolis just two decades ago, misguided loyalty to their peers persists, appearing to take precedence over any established code of conduct.  And that, no matter how often it is denied, is an irrefutable fact.

In any event, it is less about honor and more about morality, two things that all too often we tend to use interchangeably.  Our own “Sage of Baltimore”, H. L. Mencken, proved to be right on target when he stated that “the difference between a moral man and a man of honor is that the latter regrets a discreditable act, even when it has worked and he has not been caught” [Chrestomathy 617].

A well-known four-star general (US Army, retired) and television military analyst, Barry McCaffrey, when commenting on this recent marine incident eluded to the fact that soldiers under similar circumstances [assumed to be in combat or post-combat] can walk a fine line between acting normal and becoming animals.  I am sure he meant irrational, for most animals have set behaviors, and seldom develop deviant ones.

That brings me to man and his best friend in the animal kingdom: the dog. For whatever reasons, invalid and repulsive to many of us, man (or at least some men) has decided to breed and train dogs with some undesirable characteristics, such as combative ferocity and instinct to kill.  Americans have done a masterful job in this regard with the Pit Bull Terrier.  And now, we as a nation are doing the same thing with the young men we are sending to fight our illegitimate wars – not to cast legitimacy to any war.  Our grunts and junior officers have become the pit bulls fighting the wars, the military brass and the nation as a whole becoming their handlers, directly responsible for their amoral acts.

No one in the world is going to buy into our defensive hypocrisy of this incident, Madame Clinton.  If we don’t want “shit to happen,” let’s just stop having these wars.  Better yet, let’s tell the world our hypocrisy is coming to an end by renaming our Department of Defense for what it really is, our Department of War.

 

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Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:17 | 2067147 non_anon
non_anon's picture

time to put these handlers out of business

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:29 | 2067178 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Demonize, Dehumanize, Destroy.

Warfare from day one.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,125220,00.html

More recruits with criminal records, including felony convictions, are being allowed to join the U.S. Army and Marine Corps, as the armed services cope with a dwindling pool of volunteers during wartime.

The military routinely grants waivers to take in recruits who have criminal records, medical problems or low aptitude scores that would otherwise disqualify them from service. Most are moral waivers, which include some felonies, misdemeanors, and traffic and drug offenses.

Defense Department statistics show that the number of Army and Marine recruits needing waivers for felonies and serious misdemeanors, including minor drug offenses, has grown since 2003. Some recruits may get more than one waiver.

The Army granted more than double the number of waivers for felonies and misdemeanors in 2006 than in 2003.

The number of felony waivers granted by the Army grew from 411 in 2003 to 901 in 2006, according to the Pentagon, or about one in 10 of the moral waivers approved that year. Other misdemeanors - from petty theft or writing a bad check to some assaults - jumped from about 2,700 to more than 6,000 in 2006, representing more than three-quarters of moral waivers granted by the Army.

Army and Defense Department officials defended the waiver program as a way to admit young people who had made a mistake but overcome past behavior.

Lawmakers and other observers said they were concerned that the struggle to fill military ranks in this time of war had caused standards to fall.

"Our armed forces are under incredible strain, and the only way that they can fill their recruiting quotas is by lowering their standards," said Rep. Marty Meehan, a Massachusetts Democrat who has been working to get additional data from the Pentagon. "By lowering standards, we are endangering the rest of our armed forces and sending the wrong message to potential recruits across the country."

 

http://www.military.com/news/article/2011/fbi-says-gangs-infiltrating-th...

The U.S. military is facing a "significant criminal threat" from gangs, including prison and biker gangs, whose members have found their way into the ranks, according to an FBI-led investigation.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:41 | 2067213 Crassus
Crassus's picture

Anything so they don't have to bring back the draft.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:50 | 2067233 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Crassus

The draft almost balanced out the ignorant with the intelligent, the unethical with moral, those who understood the Constitution and those who didn't.

I laugh at these asshole who think modern troops would not fire on US citizens.

They should realize that those same troops would not only shoot but piss on their dead bodies and not even blink.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:03 | 2067262 Hober Mallow
Hober Mallow's picture

The Roman empire collapsed due to too much debt, an entitlement society and a weakened army. Lets not allow that to happen again.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:09 | 2067279 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Ooops!  Too fuckin' late!!! Better luck next time.  Thanks for playing, tho.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 00:07 | 2067877 redpill
redpill's picture

 

The conduct of those four Marines is not acceptable, and is not representative of the Corps overall.

 

The United States' foreign policy of empire is not acceptable, and is not representative of the ideals of freedom and liberty that we supposedly cherish.

 

I have no doubt the actions of the four Marines will be punished and rectified what degree they can be.  It's droplets in an ocean compared to the second issue.

 

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 00:35 | 2067917 cfosnock
cfosnock's picture

"The conduct of those four Marines is not acceptable, and is not representative of the Corps overall" That may be true but they are not the first....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_mutilation_of_Japanese_war_dead

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:10 | 2067965 Old Poor Richard
Old Poor Richard's picture

Meh.  At least the Americans mutilated dead bodies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:34 | 2067998 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

The My Lai Massacre (Vietnamese: th?m sát M? Lai [t????m ????t m?? l??j], [m??l??j] ( listen); English pronunciation: /?mi??la?/, also /?mi??le?, ?ma??la?/)[1] was the Vietnam War mass murder of between 347 and 504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968, by United States Army soldiers of "Charlie" Company of 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade of the Americal Division. Most of the victims were women, children (including babies), and elderly people. Many were raped, beaten, and tortured, and some of the bodies were later found to be mutilated.[2] While 26 US soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at M? Lai, only Second Lieutenant William Calley, a platoon leader in Charlie Company, was convicted. Found guilty of killing 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence, but only served three and a half years under house arrest.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

 

Hugh Clowers Thompson, Jr., DFC, BSM, PH, AM (April 15, 1943 – January 6, 2006) was a United States Army helicopter pilot during the Vietnam War. He is most well known for his role in stopping the My Lai Massacre, in which a group of US Army soldiers tortured and killed several hundred unarmed Vietnamese civilians, mutilating their bodies after they had been murdered.

 

Thompson: What's going on here, Lieutenant?
Calley: This is my business.
Thompson: What is this? Who are these people?
Calley: Just following orders.
Thompson: Orders? Whose orders?
Calley: Just following...
Thompson: But, these are human beings, unarmed civilians, sir.
Calley: Look Thompson, this is my show. I'm in charge here. It ain't your concern.
Thompson: Yeah, great job.
Calley: You better get back in that chopper and mind your own business.
Thompson: You ain't heard the last of this!

Thompson took off again, and Andreotta reported that Mitchell was now executing the people in the ditch. Furious, Thompson flew over the northeast corner of the village and spotted a group of about ten civilians, including children, running toward a homemade bomb shelter. Pursuing them were soldiers from the 2nd Platoon, C Company. Realizing that the soldiers intended to murder the Vietnamese, Thompson landed his aircraft between them and the villagers. Thompson turned to Colburn and Andreotta and told them that if the Americans began shooting at the villagers or him, they should fire their M60 machine guns at the Americans:[8] "Y'all cover me! If these bastards open up on me or these people, you open up on them. Promise me!"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson,_Jr.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 07:09 | 2068227 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Crockett, thank you for that, and for cutting through the endless bullshit recycled here on this thread....US troops are good, US troops be bad...yabba yabba. 

As your story simply points out, American soldiers encapsulate both the BEST and the WORST of what military service can produce. 

If only the distinction, [and the heavy preponderance of the latter over the former in the present day] could be addressed at the command level, and a return to traditions of honor be instituted at the behest of a re-invigorated and constitution-loyalist cadre of serving officers.

If only.  Unfortunately, it is too late in the day for that.  Over a span of some 50+ years, the United States military has been purposely corrupted and degraded, it's officer corp turned into pathetic careerist imitators of the worst of the most depraved DC politicians and judicial perverts (Scroooge[not google]Kay Griggs) and a quite literally satanist[Scroogle(etc etc) mike acquino-presidio]coterie of evil henchmen of the ZOG power has turned what was once the most powerful fighting force into the world into little more than a dumbed-down version of the post-Republic non-citizen Roman mercenary hordes- looting and pillaging on behalf of an empire of filth in terminal decline.

Any real loyalist commanders of the former American military would court-martial and execute these pissant dupes forthwith as an example to their peers - conduct yourselves in accordance with the best interests of the citizens whom we serve, or pay the ultimate price for betraying them.

At this late point in the day, it is not enough that the example of Hugh Thompson Jr. be made the yardstick of conduct for every American soldier who swears to uphold the interests of their country...each and every American citizen must needs recognize that their very own survival necessitates the choice to put oneself in between the innocent and the evildoers...nothing less will keep the heavy tide of karma from sweeping uponst their existence like a tsunami of terror such as the world has never seen since Genghis Khan.

vidrebel.wordpress.com/2012/01/16/pax-judaica-to-replace-pax-americana-which-replaced-pax-britannica/

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 14:39 | 2069020 cfosnock
cfosnock's picture

LOL...you missed the point. It is not the BEST and the WORST of what military service can produce. Its war that brings out the very best and worst in people. You state that "Over a span of some 50+ years, the United States military has been purposely corrupted and degraded, it's officer corp turned into pathetic careerist imitators of the worst of the most depraved DC politicians and judicial perverts" No the officer corps have always been that way, just look it up. The Civil War had so many political appointees the north nearly lost, and if we go back to the Revolutionary War we see such things like General Horatio Gates taking full credit for Benedict Arnold's victory, and congress punishing Arnold and rewarding Gates (who subsequently lost the battle of Camden), then you have the whole infighting with George Washington, and Charles Lee.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 12:16 | 2068675 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Keep posting that Crockett.  It's important.  As a society we don't like hearing the truth much.  So keep rubbing it in our faces.

As another commentator said, I am astonished at how many people on this site seem to think that American soldiers could never fire on American civilians, and that the military is our best guarantee against tyranny.  Wake up!!

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 12:29 | 2068702 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

You forgot congress men and women calling him a traitor and just generally annoying the fuck out of him and trying to scare him with their psychosis by leaving dead animals on his door step.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 00:45 | 2067932 bushwarcrime
bushwarcrime's picture

I'd say pissing on enemy corpses is about as good as it gets when it comes to war, can you imagine the unreported stuff?  Ever see the videos on youboob of troops throwing flash bangs at Iraqi /civilians goat herders for the hell of it?

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 00:49 | 2067938 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

I can't believe we're still pissing and moaning over a few marines pissing on dead bodies. We should be demanding a complete pullout. I'm sure those dead guys didn't mind being pissed on. I didn't hear them complaining

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 06:52 | 2068216 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

My thoughts exactly. Everyone's all worked about the pissing incident but nobody stops and asks if the actual KILLING of the men was appropriate or not.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 13:24 | 2068870 monoloco
monoloco's picture

We put young impressionable soldiers into a place where there is so much disrespect for human life that people blow up car bombs in market places filled with women and children and then we are shocked when they show disrespect to the forces trying to kill them on a daily basis. The answer is to save them for defending our country and not send them to these third world shitholes on some nebulous mission in the first place. What we need is a constitutional amendment requiring that wars be paid for with current tax revenues and not borrowed money, which would seriously diminish the public's appetite for this kind of foolishness. The chickenhawks would disappear overnight.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:31 | 2067344 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

Don't forget an army filled with people who weren't Roman and held no loyalty to the Empire beyond the coin.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:18 | 2067657 GeoffreyT
GeoffreyT's picture

There's nothing wrong with employing mercenaries per se - but when you do, it's best not to debase the currency.

 

The majority of the Praetorians were always Romans. They received the sesquiplex stipendum and donativum (and the Frumentarii - the Gestapo/SecretService - were even higher-paid).

 

The problem came not through the rebellion or military failures of mercenaries; the problem came through the stupidity of senior commanders who spoke EXACTLY like modern US commanders.

The best examples - Varus and Crassus: the first (an ibred fuckwit of the George W variety) lost 3 entire élite legions at the Teutoberger Wald (yes, Arminius probably DID pass intel to the Germans).

 

The other (Crassus) became amongst the richest men in the Empire by being the Lloyd Blankfein of the Roman FIRE sector. He lost 40,000 men at Carrhae (modern day Harran in Turkey, near the Syrian border).

 

 

The thing that brings down empires is the gap between the rhetoric of the political-parasite class and the operational effectiveness of its military goons. For the US, that gap has never been wider.

 

The 'clades Variana' was 60 years after Carrhae; at Carrhae the Roman military's vulnerability to tactial and strategic innovation (e.g., Surena's use of relatively light mounted archers in place of heavy cavalry, and the intermittent use of cataphracts to disrupt the testudo, which was an inherently DEFENSIVE formation).

 

In short, the Roman military were designed to fight a very specific type of set-piece warfare - and when they found themselves in places they had invadedthat presented difficult terrain AND resupply problems AND a committed enemy using innovative tactics (what we would recognise as 'insurgent' or 'irregular' warfare), they got butthurt.

 

Think "English troops in the Maori Wars'. Think "English troops in the US War of Independence" (once Washington stopped doing everything in his power to lose - that guy was a military GOOSE).

 

Think "US troops in VietNam". Think "US troops in IRaq". Think "US Troops in Afghanistan".

 

Think "LtGen Van Riper's Red Team in USJDF Exercise Millennium Challenge 2002".

Think (forward-looking)... "US carrier battle group facing Yakhonts SS-NX-26 missile barrage in the Straits of Hormuz" (something I first wrote about in 2004 - some of my best work).

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 00:01 | 2067867 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Current Military can be described in one word...

BLOAT! 

And what we are witnessing is the death of empathy, as a society, people and humanity in general.  Abu Gharib, Libya in General, AfPak, back in the day with Vietnam, Agent Orange, Napalm....

It's empathy and even here, it looks like it's fast disappearing. 

ori

/the-death-of-empathy/

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 00:44 | 2067929 cfosnock
cfosnock's picture

The battles you describe happened in 53 BC, and 9 AD, the empire fell in the 4th century (400 AD). They little to do with the fall of the empire

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 00:51 | 2067941 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Do you really think GW had anything to do with military strategy? Commander in Chief is merely a title. The Pentagon runs things on the battlefield

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 13:05 | 2068817 EINSILVERGUY
EINSILVERGUY's picture

You obviously never heard of the map room in the white house where Johnson and Mcnamara met daily.  They stuck pins into a map of Vietnam and decided what targets they wanted to hit. The US military subverts itself to the civilian authority.  Its when you have a weak president or a micro manager that we get into trouble.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 07:48 | 2068256 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

Bingo!  We have a winner!

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:39 | 2067368 Kayman
Kayman's picture

The Romans considered marking all the slaves in Rome. Until they realized the ratio of slaves to Romans ought not be advertized.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 20:15 | 2069724 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

Did they use RF chips i their arms?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 21:15 | 2067485 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Rapidly falling birthrate made the debts and entitlements unsupportable. Their birth control method? Infanticide. Willful exposure to the elements, etc.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:14 | 2067645 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

Does aborting north of 1M a year count or do you have to let 'em out first?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp-7hB-8jJY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:37 | 2067702 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Ask the chinese, they still do it both ways, to the XX chromosome variety of tiny helpless human.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:15 | 2067647 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Our birth control; abortion, fluoride in the water, GMO crops, Chemtrailing the skies, radiation.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:48 | 2067719 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Delaying having sex into their 30's would have given a good measure of the same poor fecundity result with ancient romans or ancient greeks as we get today from not even starting to try to have kids until well into our 30's. Fertility, unassisted anyway, drops precipitously with age, in particularly in female humans, everywhere, now and throughout history.

The hygiene the ancients had, the poor food, the poisons they weren't aware of in their implements and technologies they regularly used such as they were, were undoubtedly harder on their health than trace amounts of flourine, radiation levels below the natural background, GMO'd molecules that get broken down down before they pass the intestine wall, or.."chemtrails."

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 00:30 | 2067909 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

phew.

so which corporation do you represent?  Dow, Monsanto, Raytheon, G.E. - am I getting warm?

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 13:13 | 2068839 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

You are making a lot of questionable assertions. I'm quite confident that the quality of food the Romans enjoyed was significantly better than 99% of the garbage you find in a modern supermarket. "Organic" food was unknown in ancient times, mainly because ALL food was organic.

Romans had an elaborate system of public baths so its hard to believe their personal hygiene was anything less than impeccable. Your typical modern frenchman has significantly poorer hygiene, as anyone who has ridden the Paris Metro on a hot summer day can attest.

As for "poisons they weren't aware of," well that's pretty doubtful. There is a debate that lead poisoning contributed to the Roman downfall, but the evidence is sketchy. http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/wine/leadpoison...

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:55 | 2067428 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Love ya hon, but your statist propaganda bullshit campaign has a short timeline here. E.J. is already identified.

Try again. And please be more creative?

It won't work.

.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 21:16 | 2067488 clymer
clymer's picture

These honorable young men may have actually been trying to revive these mortally wounded opponents with urine. Most people are unaware of the medical uses of urine! It's true, urine is actually the main component in amniotic fluid that bathes human fetuses and ultimately provides them with life force. Now what better urine to try to revive a soul whose unfortunate lack of Americanism just hasn't been able to surface just yet? The URINE of a GOD DAMN, JESUS-FEARIN' U.S. MARINE, that's what! You.. you freedom hating, Toby Keith probably not-likin', anti-servile folk just can't recognize a humanitarian act of resuscitationism when you see it.

 

Love jesus. Or he'll fucking kill you.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:13 | 2067643 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Toby Keith is a retard piece of shit who loves the Democrat's Muslim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toby_Keith

The politicians should not engage in chickenshit wars.    Oddly we have been involved in fewer wars with Reagan than any other President since Ike.   Clinton was involved in that BS balkans war where he and the UN wiped out the Serbs to keep the islamic heroin drug running going full tilt.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:30 | 2067692 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

. . . but raygun was busy with pissing on the public. . . trickle-down 'n' all.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 00:25 | 2067904 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Dribbley, ugly visual CA, but SO TRUE.

Trickle and shake down economy eh? Literally and figuratively. And all the time Nancy was busy with Ole Blue eyes or whatever the singing mobster was called..

ori

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 00:55 | 2067946 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Now 0bozo is shitting on the public. My how things have changed

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:23 | 2067669 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Clymer - I see a lot of rather pathetic attempts at satire here on ZH but your post elevates us all. Superb! First Rate! A +10 if there ever was one.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:41 | 2068006 Dugald
Dugald's picture

Pissing on your opponent is as old as history.......just saying...

 

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:43 | 2068009 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Winning hearts and minds by pissing on the murdered sons of those whom you claim to defend is as old as hypocrisy.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:51 | 2068016 ebear
ebear's picture

Three strikes, you're in!

 

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 05:55 | 2068193 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

With due respect to ALL posters, if you've never been an infantryman in a combat zone, you've no idea of the darkness which lay dormant in the heart of man. I put my experience to words 20 years after the fact.

"The rotors moan above my head, as if in mourning for these dead, we "hump" inside the chopper's womb, which lofts them to their distant tomb. Our stage this hellish heat of day, the five of us dance death's ballet, with zippered bags of black and red, we haven't time to mourn our dead. Hurried, at a fevered pace, we seek to win this devil's race, if only for our task to end, God grant our souls some time to mend. Finished now, the bird lifts off, we sit and gasp, we smoke and cough, we suck foul water from canteens, each man alone within his dreams. Blood and sweat and dust congeal, upon my hands and face I feel a numbness, I avert my eyes, lest someone see I TOO HAVE DIED, and loft me to a distant tomb, so far God, from my mother's womb".

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 08:09 | 2068273 11b40
11b40's picture

I hear you, brother, and share your tears. Welcome home.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 08:12 | 2068277 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Wow Gringo....wow....crazy words and sentiment.

War...ugh!

ori

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 10:51 | 2068495 g speed
g speed's picture

poignant  +100 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:16 | 2067149 wolfnipplechips
wolfnipplechips's picture

Pizzin...bitchez

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:16 | 2067150 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

                              <------Pissing on the taliban is good

                              <------Pissing on the taliban is bad.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:33 | 2067190 Silenus
Silenus's picture

It would have been cooler if they cut off their heads and shit down their neck holes.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:27 | 2067332 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Is Corzine Taliban?

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 21:20 | 2067499 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

YES

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:46 | 2067224 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

I am going to catch a bit of flack over this, but this is fight club after all.....

With that being said:

Where was all of the outrage over US soldiers being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu

Where was all of the outrage over contractors being hung from a bridge?

This is juvenile compared to those two examples.

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:52 | 2067235 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Uber Vandal

You are upset about MERCENARIES hung from a bridge?


Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:53 | 2067243 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Right.  Contractors - were they doing the plumbing or the fucking drywall?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:58 | 2067253 john39
john39's picture

and who the hell knows who was responsible anyway?  An entire city got destroyed in retribution for that incident, and shitloads of depleted munitions used.   anyone care to see what kind of horrific birth defects are showing up in Fallujah?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2374

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:01 | 2067258 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

HelluvaEngineer

"fucking drywall"

Was that a Glory hole joke?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:24 | 2067320 AnonymousAnarchist
AnonymousAnarchist's picture

Hamilton, over at Gawker said it best.

Do you know what is worse than having your dead body urinated upon? Being killed. Being shot. Being bombed. Having your limbs blown off. Having your house incinerated by a drone-fired missile that you don't see until it explodes. Having your children blown up in their beds. Having your spouse killed. Having your hometown destroyed. Being displaced. Becoming a refugee. Having your entire life destroyed as a consequence of political forces far, far beyond your control.

Read the rest. Also, via ICYMI

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:37 | 2067701 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

left off the list: carrying your wanted foetus full term, only to have your baby born so deformed, it will die within a year, as you watch over. . .

Fallujah.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:39 | 2067370 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Tis true: the US did wipe out the entire city of Fallujah in retaliation.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:53 | 2067238 HellFish
HellFish's picture

Thank you Vandal.  The selective outrage from the left is amazing.  Your points, plus where is the Feminist movement speaking out against Sharia law and the treatment of muslim women by muslim culture.  Where did the Guantanamo Bay protests go?  How about the news stories about rendition.

Spare me the outrage of some soldiers pissing on a few terrorists.  If it were not for men like these you'd be less free then you are now.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:04 | 2067263 grey7beard
grey7beard's picture

>> a few terrorists.

And what was their terrorist act?  Fighting for their homeland?  The terrorists were the guys pissing.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:08 | 2067276 john39
john39's picture

sad, but true... 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:14 | 2067294 cossack55
cossack55's picture

I would have to disagree.  This has been happening to all armies in all wars for all time.  It is what war is all about.  The US public is paying these guys to do these things.  Get over it or end it.  There is no other choice.  Pull a tour or two with the grunts and then call yourself a terrorist.  Simply, war is terror.  Always was, alway will be.

 

BTW, I always thought the "duty, honor, country" thing was completely backwards

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:19 | 2067307 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Time to jump back on the Xbox, armchair commando.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:49 | 2068013 Dugald
Dugald's picture

H Engineer...You mouth off....But, have you done your turn on the wall????

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:10 | 2067631 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

My dad was a machine gunner and fought at Guadacanal, Bouganville, Guam and Iwo Jima.  These kinds of things happens in war, but the outrage is that these poor brainwashed soldiers are even in Afghanistan in the first place!

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 00:09 | 2067881 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

These ninnies should read the first hand accounts of fighting in the Pacific, or Japanese methods in China, or watch the Nick Berg snuff film, or a soccer field execution, say a stoning, in Afghanistan. Sheesh.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 02:50 | 2068062 BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture

 

"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
— Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

It didn't take for US too long from 2001 to go from position of justified outrage and intention to clean the house from bad guys to discussing what is actually worse: mutilating corpses or pissing on them and whether waterboarding constitutes torture. Yes, it happens in every war with every army, question is not the army, question what happens to society in general. There is a thin line between admitting that the war is terrible and justifiyng disgusting acts of war by the fact that enemy is even worse. Enemy is always worse just by virtue of being enemy. So, maybe one should choose enemies and wars more carefully? What the US could possibly gain by fighting in Afghanistan with uneducated peasants? Educate them, or start behaving the same way they do, i.e. degrade to their level?

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 08:28 | 2068299 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

At least, they got the "God, country, corps" thing right.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 21:39 | 2068386 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

Hey!  Come on now.  Don't you know that these corpses were not being pissed on.  They were actually being LIBERATED.

 

Just ask Martin Boire (please note- this is not satire):

America is in truth the first altruistic force for good on planet Earth. A population which will defend people, set them free, and then come home.

...America does what it does to protect the freedom and the peace of the world against those who want to control everything and tell everyone what to do. We hold back the dark forces. Provide stability. Check chaos. We give the people of the world the opportunity to prosper.

http://www.supportourtroops.org/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=4109101:america-is-not-an-empire

 

Isn't cognitive dissonance awesome?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:08 | 2067274 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

HellFish

"If it were not for men like these you'd be less free then you are now."

How many ways can you be wrong with that sentence?

First they are STUPID ENOUGH TO BE CAUGHT ON CAMERA.

Second their actions created even more anger, and yet more people who want to kill ME. I really don't give a shit about the ones who want to kill you, I'm honest.

Third these are the guys who gladly fire on their fellow US citizens then piss on their corpses. Probably after gang raping daughters and throwing puppies over bridges.

I feel so much safer now.

What you really don't get is maybe the dead guys brother happens to be a smart as fuck little prick who holds a grudge until he is old enouggh to actually lead some real attacks on US soil, or US citizens abroad. Not those fake FBI dope smoking setup shits, but a really brainy bastard.

Because you can't even imagine a scenario like that, you can't undertsand how we are less free today than yeasterday.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:09 | 2067280 john39
john39's picture

wait until all these pschologically devestated and incredibly dangerous guys start coming home...  to apply for jobs as cops...

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:27 | 2067333 Talleyrand
Talleyrand's picture

They're already here.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:08 | 2067621 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Yes, they will have to choose sides or stand aside:

“To current military and police, all we ask for is that you stand aside. Grab a beer and take a seat and watch the show while the veterans and patriots take care of business!”

—Stewart Rhodes,, founder of Oath Keepers to Alex Jones Nightly News 1/12

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 23:21 | 2067797 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

... and watch the show while the veterans and patriots take care of business!”

Bullshit.

Never gonna happen.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 00:15 | 2067893 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I hope you are correct. I think the govt will give them enough perks that they will do their job to protect their perks.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:29 | 2067988 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Most of the service members below the age of 30 are part of the "dumbed down" Pavlovian experiment of the Tax Free Endowments and Dept. of Education.

Free thinking and thoughts inside their brain boxes is a rarity. They have no clue what Stewart Rhodes is on about concerning "keeping their oaths". They can't connect the dots....and see the real enemy is within and pulling the strings that maneuver them like chesspiece pawns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NcLNoxiPBk&feature=related

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:17 | 2067303 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

And I'll bet Hellfish supports the Patriot Act.  Guess what, Hellfish.  We are less free thanks to this shit.  

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 06:28 | 2067985 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Surprised that no one's asked who's behind the pictures, and why did they come out at this time.? IF 'someone' wanted to escalate the tensions between the west and the Muslim worlds, this would seem a real good way to go about it. "Stupid enough to get caught?" ....I have to seriously wonder about that, as opposed to following orders from higher ups. 

Local papers where I live showing a selection of the pissing pix and some of the worst of the Abu Ghraib photos.  This is not good.

Sooner or later,  with enough provocations like this one, a lot of pretty laid back Muslim folks are going to come to the conclusion that we westerners are seriously screwed up.  It's pretty clear that someone is rooting for 'sooner.' Hellfish is the model citizen of the Zogbie that they depend upon to advance their plans against peaceful folks of all nations.

And when some cocky bastard with a few loose screws decides(or is directed!?!?) that its time to show the Crusaders some of their own medicine, instead of condemning it, as they normally would, the Islamic world will have finally been goaded enough into the trap of rooting for their own fanatics who are nothing but a smokescreen through which the dual-citizened puppeteers of ZOG engineer their project of collapsing both America and their targets in the East. 

Truly then, all hell will break loose, as the cabbalists command it. Wake up Amerika; you're being led by the nose to the slaughterhouse...rise against the traitors in your midst or suffer your fate as victims of their genocidal madness against ALL the 'aryan' nations.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:19 | 2067289 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Fuck you Vandal and Hellfish.  The left was outraged by the atrocities.   Fucking pussy straw man argument.  How about asking why we are fighting for Saudi Arabia and their interests?  How about asking why we are fighting any of these assholes if we are no different?  Spare me the outrage against your fellow Americans for daring to question authority and why we should fight wars for oligarchs.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:47 | 2067404 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

The left is making no visible objection to Obama's continuation of Bush's policies. Why aren't liberals calling Obama a "chimp" and a "murderer" like they did with Bush?

I used to be on the left. Such hypocrisy is why I decided to recognize my own sovereignty instead of trying to defending either Team Red or Team Blue.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:59 | 2067437 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Really?  Says Fox News?  I voted for Obama.  I'm fucking outraged and so are a lot of people.  Hell, I'm going to vote for Ron Paul given the chance even though I strongly disagree with 1/2 of his policies.  Better him than the oligarch police state which operates regardless of whether Red or Blue wins the latest election.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:07 | 2067620 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Are you saying that the antiwar left has been marching on DC and Fox News hasn't covered it? I'll leave it at that considering your support for Dr. Paul. I'm a recovered Democrat also voting for Paul.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 00:49 | 2067935 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Typical moron Obama voter.  All of TV and all of the media is total shit.  You are a fool if you think any of them are different - you just love them left wing biased lies.  Loser.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:05 | 2067962 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

There are anti-war protests? Why isn't CNN, NY Times and MSNBC reporting it? Where's the outrage over the 17 year old US citizen who was blown up by a drone simply because his father, another US citizen, was allegedly a member of  Al Qaeda? Neither were ever charged with a crime. How about Gaddafi's grandchildren who were blown up? 0bama is doing the same things as Bush but getting a free pass. Hell he might even win another nobel peace prize. 

You might be outraged, but 99% of the MoveOnBorgs, Kailykoks, and Puffington Ho's are cheering on or ignoring the wars, killings, renditions, banker bailouts, and police state.

Foxnews sucks just like the rest of them so stop using that strawman bullshit everytime someone points out that the emperor has no clothes.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 08:17 | 2068287 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

"Nits breed Lice".

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 21:41 | 2067552 pods
pods's picture

Sorry nimrod, if they are fighting for OUR freedom, they are in the wrong theater of operation.

From here freedom smells alot like urine.

pods

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:04 | 2067613 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Right PODS!  The U. S. is the new battlefield for freedom  thanks to traitors  like Lyndsey Graham and John McCain and the NDAA!

 

“To current military and police, all we ask for is that you stand aside. Grab a beer and take a seat and watch the show while the veterans and patriots take care of business!”

—Stewart Rhodes,, founder of Oath Keepers to Alex Jones Nightly News 1/12

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:56 | 2067737 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I'm guessing you're not all that interested in your question posed

where is the Feminist movement speaking out against Sharia law and the treatment of muslim women by muslim culture

or you'd have found plenty of answers.

When I read the Quran—of course in translation—for myself, I was shocked to discover how different it is from what the mullahs write and preach in the name of Islam. The Quran teaches, I discovered, the equality and dignity of women, while the mullahs teach precisely the opposite and pass that off as ‘Islam’. The mullahs claim, despite there being nothing of the sort in the Quran, that ‘a woman must slave for her husband, no matter if he is a tyrant and that if she willingly submits to him she can enter heaven through any door she chooses’! Who are the mullahs to announce who can enter into heaven or not? How do they know who will go to heaven and who to hell? After all, only God knows this, and for a mere human being to claim that he knows these divine secrets is what is called shirk in the Quran!

http://www.countercurrents.org/sikand110411.htm

and here's a link to RAWA, the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan

http://www.rawa.org/index.php

plenty of horrific stories of the atrocities committed daily in that country. . . for years and years.

all of these women live with the threats of rape, violence and oppression, daily

THEY are the heroic, fighting for their lives, the lives of their sisters, brothers, families, loved ones - in THEIR own lands.

 

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:04 | 2067955 Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture

"you would be less free than you are now."

Are you serious?

The imperial agenda, carried out under the rubric of a phony war on terror, undermines freedom.

Ever hear of indefinite military detention? Ever hear of habeus corpus?

War is the health of the state. The leviathan state.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:32 | 2067348 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Shh, this is about relative standards if the same standards are applied across cultures the "morality" trap no longer works.  Always hold your enemy to the letter of his laws after all no one can stand up to their own standards every time for eternity..  Paraphrasing Alinsky's rules for radicals of course.   War sucks, both sides do very bad things to combatants and civilians, war should be discouraged wherever possible but engaged with extreme ferocity and brutality whenever not avoidable.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:54 | 2067420 Malachi Constant
Malachi Constant's picture

"Where was all the outrage etc"

When men hire themselves out to shoot other men to order, asking nothing about the justice of their cause, I don’t care if they are shot themselves.

- Herbert Spencer

If you want to kill, prepare to be killed. If the rule is too tough, don't play.

Victory is one thing. Humiliating a defeated enemy is hubris.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:06 | 2067963 Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture

Good one, Malachi.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 21:00 | 2067430 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Uber Vandal, aka gov/bankster sockpuppet wrote:

Where was all of the outrage over contractors being hung from a bridge?

What fucking attempt of a trick is this? The "outrage" was enough, to globally be broadcasted all across MSM, and be a primary reason for a large scale attack on a city. An attack well known enough, that people even made documentaries and VIDEOGAMES about it!!!

Interestingly, it also was an attack, which's backgrounds made little logical sense, and those killed interestingly were contractors of an organization, primarily run by former CIA and NSA heads. Interestingly, that incident would also become the primary target of a mass-lawsuit which's goals were similiar to the 911 truth movement (though, less popular in the MSM).

But yeah, despite of ALL THOSE CONSIDERATIONS, it was completely ignored in the MSM....... riiight. GFY bankster bitch or retard.... or both... don't really care which of those three possibilities apply to you.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:00 | 2067953 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Pardon me, but you have the career progressions wrong.

---ex-NSA guys go to high tech firms, become code writers for Oracle or SAP, or become billionaire HF managers running Black Box systems

---ex-Agency guys go to Kroll or SAIC, unless they are from the Paramilitary side, in which case they become private security

---ex-grunts of the Ranger or SEAL variety go to Blackwater/Xe

---ex-Star types go to schlep fighter jets or missiles for Raytheon, General Dynamics, etc.

---ex-low level grunts go to the unemployment line with the thanks of a grateful nation

---ex-KGB types become Oligarchs, buy football clubs or faux-Grecian mansions where they paint pubic hair and nipples on the statues

---ex-Mossad types immigrate to Brooklyn and open delicatessens if they lose the PM or Knesset election

---ex-MI6 types move to Scotland to raise salmon, become Senior Adviser to some ME Sheikh or die pickled on a pub floor in Kent

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 22:53 | 2070025 Rynak
Rynak's picture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi#Corporate_history

As funny as your post is, it apparently does not apply to ex-blackwater.

Here's what IMO blackwater is: Someday, some CIA folks thought, that just getting grunts doing their grunt-work, via annoyingly complicated means.... kinda sucks. What instead, if we just opened up a merc provider, and let all the suckers join, whom we will then employ whenever we (american secret service and neocons) need a plain stupid military force, so that we no longer need to ask the official military for help.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 21:59 | 2067597 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Oh yeah.  Let's all shed a tear for the fucking "contractors"!

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:39 | 2067707 oogs66
oogs66's picture

Where is the outrage that contractors and places like Halliburton are paid far more than actual soldiers?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 23:05 | 2067765 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

or that the US military "pays" for the training of the men who jump ship for more fiat as a mercenary. . .

quality, standards, such fine individuals.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:38 | 2068004 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

Are you under 15 or were you high all your life?

Where was the outrage? You are not even serious with that shit.

 

It was wall to wall outrage 24X7 on every network, in fact the outrage was so over the top, it was war after all, that we wiped out a city over it and went back for 2nds and 3rds.

Why is it only war and "shit jus be happen" only when we are throwing down?

I would not respect any man/women/child upon seeing a bunch of low riders rolling over their country  that didn't take some scalps where they could.

 

 

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 21:18 | 2067493 clymer
clymer's picture

crafty poll, fix

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:18 | 2067152 SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

Don't ask about marines urinating on corpses, don't tell about marines urinating on corpses. 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:23 | 2067159 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Those guys tried to kill them and also killed some of their friends and collegues.
It's not like they should give those muslims a box of chocolats or so.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:16 | 2067298 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Right, and the Belgians were angels in the Congo.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:24 | 2067323 Blegoo
Blegoo's picture

Just go back to DailyKos, where you belong.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:50 | 2067412 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

That elitist attitude makes you sound like a progressive. Why do you hate America?

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 08:01 | 2068262 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Irrelevant.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 21:58 | 2067592 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Well, on May 1st the beloved CIA told us the enemy should be buried at sea immediately after death and being in the middle of  the desert that's the best the marines could come up with at the time!

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:43 | 2068007 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

It's not like those guys were forced to serve.

If they can't be restrained by their leaders in the service (who fuckn failed them) then run them out of town.

 

It's a priviledge to serve and they place other brothers at risk.

 

Once agin the ME NOW ME WANT ME Do culture shows it's ugly.

 

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 08:04 | 2068266 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

You're right, but the armchair moralists have decided to be all preachy, today. I'd piss on any recent combat kill; out of relief if nothing else.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:14 | 2067292 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Why do we give a fuck about the marines they are all  the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet , and chem trail piolts , spraying thier own familys, unless anyone else can think of a dumber job.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:53 | 2067422 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Further proof that exposure to chem trails (real or imagined) plays havoc with one's grammar and spelling.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 21:53 | 2067580 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Our military men and women by and large are patriotic souls and intelligent as exemplified by the fact that they overwhelmingly support Mr. Ron Paul!

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:20 | 2067157 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Come on people.  These men just killed their enemy. Pissing on them is indiscrete, but hardly a crime in the chaotic rush of war.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:30 | 2067337 Talleyrand
Talleyrand's picture

And how did they come to be "enemies"?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:35 | 2067352 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

NOW that is an EXCELLENT question!  Could it have anything to do with the trillion plus in minerals in the ground?  Hmm, fighting for another corporate foothold are we?  Wow, did  I just say that?  The worm has turned..

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:48 | 2067407 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Calmyourself

Could it have anything to do with the trillion plus in minerals in the ground? "

I think you will find opium more profitable than Afghan minerals, but when you look at a map, where do you propose getting minerals to market ?

Pakistan, Iran ? Or better yet, the U.S. uses its blood and treasure to enrich China.  

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 21:10 | 2067466 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Understand me here, I am not talking logistics but motivation.  OBL is dead and those responsible for the initiation of the war have been killed or drivin  to ground, we currently enage in negotiations with the taliban using back channels.  My point being logistics, a will a way, but why we are still there is the real question don't you agree?

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 21:29 | 2067523 Kayman
Kayman's picture

 

Calmyourself

Well, my viewpoint is that we should exit the Middle East.  I think we cannot calculate the price of a barrel of Mideast oil, once blood and treasure is considered.

Aside from oil we have no inherent interest in the Middle East. And Israel must consider that a bankrupt U.S. cannot support them anyway.

The chasm between what we would like to do and what we can afford to do, including Afghanistan, is growing everyday.

goodnight.  My boss has summoned me...

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 21:36 | 2067536 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Excellent points to think on and consider, have a good night.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 21:56 | 2067589 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

The opium helps pay for the war; at least, the CIA's part in it.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 23:35 | 2067823 pvzh
pvzh's picture

OBL might be dead but opium and drug money are still there. Why not continue if all externalities are paid by US taxpayer in money and blood, but crisp notes go to right people "free of charge"?

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 00:14 | 2067891 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Why are we there?

Because we haven't yet defined "victory" so that having achieved it, we can leave.

Because it is a base from which to launch drone strikes into "friendly" Pakistan.

Because being there allows us to keep pressure on Iran, since we flank it.

Because the Administration doesn't want to risk bringing everyone home and then suddenly remember why we were still there ten years later.

The minerals mean nothing.  Invade or mine, the 'hospitality' some Afghans will provide is the same.  Those minerals---if they exist---have been sitting in the ground since time began and will remain in the ground long after all of us are gone.  It might even be strategic to let China in to have a go at them.  They might as well take their turn getting in an Afghan quagmire.

The poppy thing is nonsense and stems from conspiracy views and a total lack of understanding.  The total wholesale value of heroin grown in a year is less than what the US spends in two weeks on the ground there.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 11:12 | 2068540 Kayman
Kayman's picture

chindit13

The poppy thing is nonsense

Beg to differ.  The wholesale value of opium is the best value for harvest for an Afghan farming family.

 

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 13:09 | 2068832 chindit13
chindit13's picture

I know it is a good crop for a poor farmer.  My point was in reference to those who like to claim the US controls and profits from the heroin trade there.  At the wholesale level, the Afghan poppy trade makes a good business for a farmer and a warlord or two, but the total wholesale revenue from a year’s worth of growth is the equivalent of what the US spends in Afghanistan in two weeks.  Even if the US was so inclined to engage in that trade, the possible revenues, in the overall scheme of things, would be meaningless.

Now I have no doubt that numerous ZHers can offer countless “links” contrary to what I write here.  I still call bullshit.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 07:58 | 2068261 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

It's not a philosophy class; on that day at that time they had weapons in their hands and were trying to kill you; I would feel perfectly relaxed about pissing on their corpses; probably good therapy.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:37 | 2067356 KK Tipton
KK Tipton's picture

Total crap.
The pissers have no honor. No humility.
And for that....they are literally doomed.

They are not men in any sense of the word.

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:08 | 2067426 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Well, they did do their peeing standing up. But I know what you mean.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:10 | 2067625 dumpster
dumpster's picture

they saw a vision in light

hillarys head appeared

the pizz was directed in the right direction 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:27 | 2067678 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Well thank god they didn't masturbate and come all over them. That would have been really indiscreet.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:46 | 2068010 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

Bullshit. bilge. incredible.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:21 | 2067158 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

It always happens in wars. What do you expect? War does something to a person, it dislocates the moral sence. These people just need help, not a pointing finger.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:27 | 2067171 SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

Looking for a few good men......the few, the proud, the marines.  Either the recruiting slogan is misguided or your beloved freedom fighters have overstepped their bounds. 

 

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:27 | 2067331 Blegoo
Blegoo's picture

Mind your sheep, fukker.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:44 | 2067714 oogs66
oogs66's picture

Kids spit on their hands when they shake hands after a tough basketball game. After months of trying to kill and trying to avoid being killed this seems trivial. Not good but seriously they were trying to KILL ech other moments before!!!!

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 01:47 | 2068011 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

really , got utube of that sonny?

 

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 07:55 | 2068259 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

As you can see you can't do anything with the hive mind; which seems to be all "preachy" today. I don't think their moral sense was disclocated, and I don't think they need help either; I'd be glad to piss on any armed combatant I just helped kill. Too many people around with cameras these days.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:26 | 2067162 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

Let's remember Rupert Murdoch's birth certificate bullshit from three years ago. Up until the United States laws were changed, you HAD TO BE A UNITED STATES citizen in order to buy a media company in the US. The laws were changed so Rupert Murdoch could buy 20th Century Fox.

Rupert Murdoch is Australian. He knows nothing about a United States birth, doesn't have any idea of the sequence and legal authority of documents surrounding a US birth. Rush Limbaugh's a high school graduate who reads whatever Rupert Murdoch puts in front of him. Limbaugh doesn't have any children, so when it comes to a US birth certificate, Limbaugh's a dumbass.

The US military is damned incompetent. Yeah, they may get their advantage from outsized military spending, but that's the only place their competence comes from. The Marines have done the best job of recruiting from the lowest of low rungs in the US, and turning out the best product, even when the best is US Marines urinating on corpses. You get what you pay for. Discipline?

Or else this is all urinating on corpses bullshit to boost military spending.

Now the best effort would be for Rupert Murdoch, Faux Noise, and Rush Limbaugh to conduct a survey: if Marines were urinating on  the corpses of the private bank cartel families, Rothschilds, Murdochs, Bilderbergers, etc.,  would anyone on Main Street  care?

No. So context is everything.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:35 | 2067196 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Heroic Couplet

Don't discount the idea of U.S. Marines urinating on the bodies of the treasonous bankers and politicians that have sold this country out.

As the U.S. continues to decline, soldiers will be returning home to a very divided nation. The well-coddled versus the low-rung (your insulting words).

Caviar, like turnips, is an acquired taste.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:37 | 2067199 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

CNN/MSNBC/CNBC/ABC/CBS/NBC and NPR will once again be supporting the DNC. Move along nothing to see over there. Blame Bush or FOX.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:38 | 2067201 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Heroic Couplet

"Limbaugh doesn't have any children"

I've read the rumors about his Pedo trips. Maybe it's best the dope fucked his sperm so badly he didn't have kids to ass rape.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 21:33 | 2067531 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Limbaugh doesn't have any children"

And my impeccable sources tell me Limbaugh's parents didn't have any children either.  It runs in the family.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:24 | 2067163 Jeremy Roenick
Jeremy Roenick's picture

Bulletin Board Material for the Taliban

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 19:37 | 2067200 RickC
RickC's picture

Yeah, right.  Before this happened the Taliban thought we were all nice guys and wanted to work with us while singing Kumbaya.  I am sure this will result in a total attitude change.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 20:58 | 2067433 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture


Taleban in Texas for talks on gas pipeline

 

Thursday, December 4, 1997 Published at 19:27 GMT

 

A senior delegation from the Taleban movement in Afghanistan is in the United States for talks with an international energy company that wants to construct a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan across Afghanistan to Pakistan.


A spokesman for the company, Unocal, said the Taleban were expected to spend several days at the company's headquarters in Sugarland, Texas.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/west_asia/37021.stm

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 00:17 | 2067896 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

How in your face is that shit!   Your leaders have sent your brothers and children to a foreign country to kill the evil terrorists that live there, The evil terrorist leaders have their brothers and children fighting the evil imperialist invaders from the west .... All the while ALL the leaders are having lunch together and discussing bipartisan economic deals in YOUR country out in the open and reported by the media?

If there was any truth to their propoganda they'd each be salivating at the opportunity to take each other out.

 

How is it that both the leaders of the international organisation and the leaders from the Taleban wre / are not arrested the minute they set foor on US soil?

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