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Guest Post: American Military Pit Bulls And Their Handlers
Submitted by Ben Tanosborn
American Military Pit Bulls And Their Handlers
It is not what the few do but what the many don’t do. That really represents what we are all about, co-conspirators in a sea of silence. Marines who view despicable acts committed by other marines remain silent; the officers, who are well aware of this behavior, condone it, invariably following the “ethical criminal” attitude in war morality of “when in war, shit happens”; and the nation prefers to play the part of Pontius Pilates.
Hillary Clinton, most everyone in our government, and those hypocrites at the Pentagon should not be acting surprised at the outrageous and contemptuous behavior of those four marines from Camp Lejeune desecrating the Taliban’s corpses. The four have received no different training, or possess different brainwashed mindsets, from the other 200,000+ marines now on active duty, or the 1,600,000+ empire-warriors comprising our international police force.
No, the Marine Corps does not teach its men to do such detestable and gravely outrageous things, none of the military services do; but neither do they teach them not to do them, or demand that honorable conduct be peer-enforced. Therein lays the problem, honorable conduct taking a back seat to fellowship and camaraderie among fellow servicemen, particularly marines. And not just honorable conduct but humane, moral conduct as well!
And no, these are not only isolated cases that occur; only isolated in how they come to be public knowledge, their frequency just a minuscule fraction of the instances in which they happen. Ask any member of the military. I have, and ‘been there myself. If the academies do not demand, and unequivocally enforce, that honorable conduct be peer-enforced, how can such be expected to take place in the enlisted ranks?
Human rights and dignity have never been part of the military code of ethics, not in the officer nor in the enlisted ranks. In fact, ethics most often stands in the way of all military missions no matter how we try to rationalize soldiers’ behavior, embellish it, or try to find glory where there is none. American citizenry, no different from that in other countries, has been content to have its military stick to vague or irrelevant terminology such as that used at the Military Academy at West Point: “Duty, Honor and Country.”
West Point’s Cadet Honor Code, similar to that of the other military academies, states that “A cadet will not lie, cheat, or steal…” but it took until 1970 to have a most important clause added, as military criminal behavior in Vietnam was becoming better known through inductees returning home, or tolerate those who do. And, as it became evident with the cheating scandal at Annapolis just two decades ago, misguided loyalty to their peers persists, appearing to take precedence over any established code of conduct. And that, no matter how often it is denied, is an irrefutable fact.
In any event, it is less about honor and more about morality, two things that all too often we tend to use interchangeably. Our own “Sage of Baltimore”, H. L. Mencken, proved to be right on target when he stated that “the difference between a moral man and a man of honor is that the latter regrets a discreditable act, even when it has worked and he has not been caught” [Chrestomathy 617].
A well-known four-star general (US Army, retired) and television military analyst, Barry McCaffrey, when commenting on this recent marine incident eluded to the fact that soldiers under similar circumstances [assumed to be in combat or post-combat] can walk a fine line between acting normal and becoming animals. I am sure he meant irrational, for most animals have set behaviors, and seldom develop deviant ones.
That brings me to man and his best friend in the animal kingdom: the dog. For whatever reasons, invalid and repulsive to many of us, man (or at least some men) has decided to breed and train dogs with some undesirable characteristics, such as combative ferocity and instinct to kill. Americans have done a masterful job in this regard with the Pit Bull Terrier. And now, we as a nation are doing the same thing with the young men we are sending to fight our illegitimate wars – not to cast legitimacy to any war. Our grunts and junior officers have become the pit bulls fighting the wars, the military brass and the nation as a whole becoming their handlers, directly responsible for their amoral acts.
No one in the world is going to buy into our defensive hypocrisy of this incident, Madame Clinton. If we don’t want “shit to happen,” let’s just stop having these wars. Better yet, let’s tell the world our hypocrisy is coming to an end by renaming our Department of Defense for what it really is, our Department of War.
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The US has a long history of embracing questionable leaders when it serves a purpose and then vilifying and attacking those same leaders when that serves a purpose.
As does every other empire through out history--- wise up-- gov'ts are obsolete--
I already knew that.
hardcore taliban are not the audience we wish to impress.
The Pentagon will tell you it's all about low intensity and propaganda more so than ever.
Doesn't help with most peeps.
Some will give grudging respect as at least they were on the ground to piss on the tally.
Exactly. I hope they really, really, don't like having their corpses pissed on; I hope it like disqualifies them for their phoney BS heaven; if that's the case, it should be standard operating procedure.
Jeremy Roenick said: "Bulletin Board Material for the Taliban".
He's got a point there.
A picture is worth a thousand words, especially to the illiterate and/or malleable.
The problem with some of our soldiers doing this is that it denigrates all the good work they have done putting in drinking water systems, restoring infrastructure, supplies to schools for education, elections, food, etc.
Hard to win the battle for hearts and minds when the Internet is there to send this picture to any screen in the Middle East.
Guy is a killer whose pals strap explosives on children. He is trying to killl you. You kill him first. You piss on him. I don't get the problem.
The 99% don't get the problem either.
ThisIsBob
Guys invade your homeland, bomb your children, weddings, funerals and elderly. They rape your women and rob your homes.
Then they desecrate the remains of your valiant Freedom Fighters.
Those corpses getting pissed on are the kids from Red Dawn.
Gully Foyle
Yeah.... far better to treat your women like dogs. Rape your daughters and then call them whores. Provide shelter and comfort to the enemies of the U.S. believing (incorrectly) that America is too weak to do anything about it.
The warring tribes in Afghanistan have one thing in common; they don't trust each other. And the only thing that glues them together is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".
Invading Iraq was a mistake. Not doing the heavy lifting in Afghanistan quickly was also a mistake.
Then sign up to fight. Better yet, become a mercenary & fight on your own dime.
Otherwise STFU with the armchair general BS.
Pants McPants
Why don't you stop being Gully's lapdog and offer up some of your front line wisdom. Otherwise keep riding shotgun on the Polish garbage truck.
How's that for a punch in the mouth while yer sitting in your Mother's basement surfing Midget porn.
Over to you.
Kayman
Someone has been reading the propaganda now haven't they.
If you have said that x percentage of ANY population were total shitheels, then I would have to agree. But you painted whole people with a very large brush.
Jesus if you want to be believed than you need to cherry pick your examples. Use individual incidents to support your claims then vaguely extend them to the rest of the group you intend to demonize.
Tell your bosses you aren't really cut out for this job.
Gully Foyle
Uh... I like to think of myself as my own boss, but the gal in the other room thinks she's my boss.
We will have to agree to disagree. Afghanistan has been a "country" of tribes, long before Mohamed wove the Old Testament and Zoroaster into the Quoran.
Over to you.
It's the gal trapped inside your hairy, fat assed frame that's in charge. She's not happy and she's taking it out on innocent people. Even the three fingers of Seagrams doesn't seem to help anymore...
Though I've only had a taste, I suspect I've had more experience in Taliban Afghanistan than you. I am not backing either the Marines' behavior nor US actions there, but if I were to imagine the worst possible manner in which to materialize on this Earth it would be in the form of a female in Taliban Afghanistan. Thank your chosen god or Operator of the Birth Lottery that you escaped that fate.
Frankly, I do not know how a world or anyone who calls himself civilized should deal with such barbarity or similar barbarous acts carried out by ANY government. Evil, sadly, always has the upper hand, Edmund Burke notwithstanding.
You are an idiot and a fool.
We have "Heavy lifted" everthing there is to lift over there.
Of course we could turn to the glass em all as maybe that would satisy your fantasy.
Back to level 1 in the basement for you.
Maybe we could kill ever person out in the open in AFG, i am sure that would end the "heavy lift".
karzai_luver
You are an idiot and a fool.
Seems I am in great company then. Dubya invaded Afghanistan, then diverted everything to Iraq, leaving "coalition" troops to do the dirty work.
If you are suggesting OBL should have been left with a safe haven, then we will simply have to agree to disagree.
Well said Gully. Trouble is, folks like ThisIsBob are likely incapable of empathy - they cannot put themselves in the other guy's position.
Perhaps this is why there is seemingly an endless supply of available cannon fodder: who needs empathy when the world is black and white anyway?
Brilliant tacticool move from fancy mcpantsy seizing the empathetic high ground, obviously played emotional chess prior to this engagement..
News flash, empathy only goes so far when someone is trying or has tried to kill you, you would be amazed how that empathetic high ground is replaced by agressiveness.
So you agree that going into foreign lands for no logical reason and then bombing people makes them angry? Good for you -- you've come to understand blowback.
The war in its beginning had quite logical reasons, it's continuation on the other hand is very troublesome.. See my post above regarding minerals vs motivations.
There was not one logical reason to invade Afghanistan other than poppy seeds. 40,000 NATO troops were on the Afghan border on 9/10/01. Just another strange coincidence.
Tell your congressman due, not me.. I just know what CNN and huffpo told me.. Al queda has found a safe haven and we attacked it.. If that was true I still want to know why we are still there? Opium, shit, we could grow our own in Mexico, Bolivia hell of a lot easier..
There are clowns running around who believe it is within our right and what's worse OUR ability to purge what we call evil from the world.
ANd they call liberal left-leaners stupid.
Which most are but still.........................
Animals vs. animals then?
Maybe we should call the Navy ships back without them lest one of these Marines accidentally come home.
Animals like this deserve to be exported...to another planet.
Honorable MEN and real WARRIORS don't do these things.
Surely; pissing on people (good or bad) helps spread "Democracy".
killing and wizzing on fanatics certainly deters terroism
Were I to see foreign troops on our soil giggling and posing for something like that I might be inspired to become a "fanatic" myself.
I guess you missed the execution of American and Canadian soldiers by the Nazis. Oh, and we, naturally reciprocated.
War is not ever nice.
If bad behavior is to be not only expected but encouraged then wouldn't it be best if we just nuked the planet right now? It wouldn't be nice, but as you say, war is never nice.
Or we could try to act as reasonably and responsibly as possible and try to make our way in the world based on merit rather than machismo.
You know CA when I read things like "If bad behavior is to be not only expected but encouraged then wouldn't it be best if we just nuked the planet right now?" Really,really?
I am tempted to never read another one of your emotional outbursts again. I advised my daughter to keep those types of things to herself or at least in the bathroom mirror after she uttered " If I can't go out in this outift I will kill myself"..
So I can feel free to disparage you behind your back. Great.
You apparently misunderstood, sorry I will say it right to your face, no problem..
I think you misunderstood. I look forward to saying nasty things about you which you will never know about because you don't want to read any more of my posts. Stick with the plan.
"War is not ever nice."
True, but this is not war. This is "kinetic action" designed to spread "democracy"!
Which is why you don't hang around when the "heavy lift" is OVER.
Which is why you don't define "war" as building a country, that isn't going to make it.
If you can't affect the politics of a country then the war will fail.
Wow it would have taken foreign troops pissing on dead comrades to make you resist them? Welcome to participation award country!!!!
To be shot and killed is one thing but to be pissed on well thats too much!
actually had you any honor you would understand that you are correct up there.
You see if you piss on a live peep he has a chance to piss back but a dead peep, nope only a mob would support that.
No, it only upsets the enemy more. Sun Tsu would chastise the US Military for the way it has lead its wars in the last 50 years. We look like a bunch of idots.
" Sun Tsu would chastise the US Military for the way it has lead its wars in the last 50 years. We look like a bunch of idots."
DING DING DING....ULTIMATE WINNER!
These pissers are not men. They are trash dressed up in a uniform.
Jail time in Leavenworth...coming up! That will teach the next batch what is demanded of them.
What's an idot?
Illinois Department Of Transportation
The Russians took some Muslims Hezbollah I think and cut their cocks off and stuufed them i n their mouths in Beirut in the early 80"s payback for whacking a few of their guys.. I would encourage some real study of the Muslim condition from childrearing practices to adolescent behavioural standards I think you might think differently about several things when you are done.
How does such a repulsive personality manage to live with itself?
You would have to ask the Russians and Hezbollah that question as I made clear I am just relating the truth nothing more, got some sand in your vag perhaps?
http://trueslant.com/michaelpeck/2010/05/17/russian-marines-versus-somali-pirate/
Here is how the Russian Marines handle Somali pirates, they then burned the ship.. You will have to ask them how they live with themsleves after the Vagisil of course.. At the end it discusses how the Soviets stuffed a guys testes in his mouth and sent him back to Hezbollah.. I do not know how they live with themselves?
I am not sure what is your beef with Russian marines. In the video what you linked, they handle prisoners correctly (no pissing on corpses, beating, etc.). Soldier with radio contacted superior to take care of injured "pirate" (whether help was rendered not shown). Devices for piracy are documented, prisoners taken on board of Russian ship, and offending vessel is destroyed. After that lots of speculations, but nothing definitive. Besides, according to maritime law that is still in effect, captain of Russian ship is in his power to trial and execute pirates by hanging. If he chose to send them of in a boat, it is still allowable.
Prisoners in that video are handled with far more respect than US citizens in a typical IRS raid or by any other US law-enforcement agency.
Not only long winded but you did not read the story, the pirates were set adrift in a raft with no supplies hundreds of miles from shore.. Reading comprehension not your thing? Care to comment on how the Russians stuffed the Hezbollah dudes own sack in his mouth? How about reading and comprehending the thread...
Re: cock cutting, etc. I do not comment on hearsay.
Re: pirates. If Russians had an authority to hang them, I do not see any problem of setting them adrift without supplies either. This part of the waters has very heavy ship traffic (there would be no point for piracy otherwise), so it was not so cruel as it might seem (they gave them some chance to survive instead of executing on site). Besides, fate of the pirates is hearsay as well. Video itself shows nothing remotely cruel (as I said before, US citizen are treated by US law-enforcement in a worse ways routinely).
fuk that you weak-knee yellow belly libural.
I think a good gas attack would stop all this cutting and pissing.
You know we could just melt them jewels right off and save money and time while we are at it.
No sense as it's ALL BEEN done before.
After all gas is well known tactic in that there ME.
Forget it save your breath the entire post and thread was a tyler throw away to the leftie fools on this board, guns bad / love brotherhood good, mouth breathers..
I understand that politics involved, but...
So its OK to kill someone, but Lord forbid you urinate on them after they are dead.... I mean talk about a bunch of BS. If Washington wants war, then Washington needs to grow some balls and say that if you dont want to be urinated on then dont be engage our soldiers. There is nothing wrong with saying it is an unfortunate situation and that the soldiers probably need a break from combat. However, I am rather sure that others would do much worse than urination to a US soldier if they were able to kill him/her.
So, what others might do in a similar situation is your standard of "right" behaviour? Wow...talk about sending society down to the least common denominator in a hurry...
U.S. Army, Ret.
13F/13Z
Way too late for this piece of shit society. Katrina, anyone.
16Z5P
too true :( The issue of pissing on the dead is a sickening symptom of a much larger problem.
"You train young men to drop fire on people... but you don't let them write 'fuck' on their airplanes - because it's obscene!"
- Col. Kurtz, Apocalyse Now
+1
I agree but first let's take a poll there and get an up or down vote as to all out war or the current half measures.
If it comes back as giddy for all out war them hack them off dude.
After all we are there now to build a democracy and at the pleasure of the population is that it?
When Hillary Clinton makes remarks like 'we came, we saw, he died." in reference to the death of Qaddafi and Obomber treats the invasion of Pakistan to murder some one who may have been Bin Ladin as a cool thing to watch on television with his buddies, this sort of desecration is not surprizing. It's just policy. The military emulating their commander in chief.
personnaly i think it is the tsahal who teaches such things as tsahal "soldiers" always pee or defect in houses of the "enemy" or on their corpses...
and back in the days, bolcheviks, trained, commanded and financed by jude, were also peeing and defecting in houses of poeple whom they were coming to give "freedom"...
Fuck you idiots and especially you lastborn. At least they didn't eat them. They were Taliban you jackasses. They shot them from a distance. The assholes never heard the rifle go off. But that is OK, it was during war, or, I guess a break in the war. The marines could have shot them in the leg first, next in the right arm, then between the eyes. At least they would have had time to put in their order for the 70 virgins. Taliban kill women for pleasure, kill school girls for going to school. But that is OK, it is their religion. You bunch of two faced dickheads. If it were up to me I would piss on them first and then shoot them.
Next I would hand them over to their Taliban buddies and let them fuck each one of them for several hours.
junkyard dog
"Taliban kill women for pleasure, kill school girls for going to school."
Explain to me Brother when the invading force does even worse which side are the heroic ones?
Explain to me Brother when the invading force does even worse which side are the heroic ones?
The vast majority of acclaimed "heroes" will tell you there are no heroes in war; on either side.
Old men talk; young men die. That, my friend, is war.
Kayman
"Old men talk; young men die. That, my friend, is war."
And that is why no one should ever be upset when troops die. That's what they get paid for.
It's like thanking the gum chewing check out girl for the magnificent job she does scanning my groceries.
Trrops receive cash and bennies because they may die.
You don't want to die, don't join.
Gully Foyle
Cannot agree, my friend. Damn few soldiers sign up for a paycheck. And although there have been few wars, declared or undeclared, that I personally could support, sometimes you got to call bullshit.
Those times should be very few. But if soldiers didn't sign up, Mein Kampf would be required reading. Incidently, one of the world's most tedious books.
"But if soldiers didn't sign up, Mein Kampf would be required reading." Yes, British pilots and especially Russian infantrymen. But of course, that undermines both the "if wasn't fer us Mericans, y'all'd be talking German now" and the "they fought for YOUR freedom" narratives, wouldn't it?
By the way sumthin', Mein Kampf wasn't even required reading in Nazi Germany. Nice try, though.
Heyoka Bianco
1. I didn't say Mein Kampf was required reading in Nazi Germany. Nice sleight-of-hand though...
2. It did however, rise from nothing to a million seller once Herr Hitler rose to power.
And I'll let you sup with my Rotties, when you can show me Russian Infantry that "signed" up. Most Russian infantry were illiterate conscripted peasants.
British pilots got to fly and Russian infantrymen got supplies because America was the great arsenal of the world. You, sir, are mistaken, as ever.
It is a best seller in the paleosimian terrortories and in much of the arab world, despite a low literacy rate. Oh well, not that many books get translated into arabic, nevermind published in that language.
Books › Foreign Language Books › Arabic › All Arabic Books
Showing 1 - 12 of 12,952 Resultshttp://www.amazon.com/Arabic-Books-Foreign-Language/b?ie=UTF8&node=33027...
Note that based on popular titles those who read Arabic have tastes which are quite similar to our own.
Pissing on a dead guy who can't care seems to me to be less than torturing (like dismembering) those still alive - which is what the Taliban got famous for. You can think both are nasty-evil - I do. But let's have a little perspective. Only a little of course, this is ZH after all.
Water boarding seems worse - those people can feel it!
And the polite term is micturating, after all. Please, some civility. Are there no rules?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-5hHPTr4BQ
Our so-called government pisses on us regularly and very few are outraged. These marines piss on a few dead guys and it's an international scandal. Just one more distraction...
Let me see if I have this right: It's not a problem to blow these guy's heads off and otherwise shred them to pieces but piss not allowed?
One illegal act followed by an immoral act.
I'm starting to wonder if this is some kind of a psyop.
We're living in a century in which billions, topping the last century's 100s of millions, will die of famine and war and genocide, and here we are wasting our breath over, ah, unpleasant choices of U.S. soldiers as to the location of their micturation. Some perspective is in order.
Fuck you. You don't KNOW shit.
I read your bio on your website. I didn't see anything about you wearing a uniform at any point of your pointless life. You breathlessly report that this country is turning these young men into pit bulls. No shit? How has anything changed over the last two hundred years? What this country needs is a military draft or compulsory government service, so that the old, fat white men that send young men (and women these days) to protect "American interests" might think twice before demanding military action. If the fat cat conservatives with the war drums in their head had to worry about their own progeny getting shipped to the middle east, life would be a lot simpler and people like you that haven't a clue outside of your academic bubble might just shut the fuck up.
I didn't realize Obama was old, fat or white, and Hilary's maybe a bit on the tubby side but it's a bit of a stretch to claim she is a man.
So you believe that what's going on in Afghanistan has something to do with Obama?
Only to the extent that Obama serves as the front man. Someone else is pulling the levers, but Obama takes the credit/blame. Same with Bush. And Clinton. And Bush. And...
All the girls around her say she's got it coming but she gets it while she can.
Amen 100 times, HP!
Were there a draft, we would have done the job in Afghanistan in 6 months and there would have been young men lined up to volunteer if we needed more troops. However, we would never have bought the bullshit that allowed the Iranian folly...and if the politicians had forced the issue, every college campus would have exploded with protests.
As far as this author's 'field' cred, I have my reservations as to his veracity. Having seen VC ears on display several times, and personally experienced the rage and frustrations of war, I cannot condemn these young men. They were snipers. These were the enemy. There was likely no respect, but only disdain, and none of us know the circumstances. A soldier must de-humanize hiw enemy; else face endless guilt and nightmares.....which come anyway, but, thankfully, fade for most over time.
This is also unlike the scandals of Abu Ghraib, where it was our responsibility to protect prisoners of war. Those MP's were sick, and the chain of command warped and broken. This sniper team is guilty of poor judgemment for filming thier actions. Beyond that, I have no further comment.
The "job" in Afghanistan is to grow poppy seeds and will never be concluded because every year brings a new crop for us to harvest to the tune of $500,000,000,000.00 per year.
Yes, if we had a draft I am sure the sons and daughters of those congressman who support the illegal wars would be the first to go:)
"From men trained in battle to ferocity, accustomed to the perpetration of cruel deeds, accustomed to take human life without sorrow or remorse, habituated to esteem an unthinking courage a substitute for every virtue, encouraged by plunder to prodigality, taught improvidence by perpetual hazard and exposure, restrained only by an iron discipline which is withdrawn in peace, and unfitted, by the restless and irregular career of war for the calm and uniform pursuits of ordinary life; from such men, what ought to be expected but contempt of human rights and of the laws of God? From the nature of his calling, the soldier is almost driven to sport with the thought of death, to defy and deride it, and, of course, to banish the thought of that retribution to which it leads; and though of all men the most exposed to sudden death, he is too often of all men most unprepared to appear before his Judge."
William Ellery Channing on war...1816 Past is Prologue
http://americanunitarian.org/war1.htm
I am an ex infantry officer (Rhodesian). Personally I didn't go in for mutilating corpses, I was satisfied enough to have killed them. But surely your sense of values is a bit twisted if you think it's ok to blow someone's head off but totally out of order to urinate on them. The crime against humanity is in the mind boggling stupidity of photographing it and the inevitable disclosure. God help us if we were ever caught with a camera on ops, but that was in the days before cell phones.
Lucky Bastard You!
Hope you expatriated your currency along with yourself..
Oh please, starts at the top. Obama just approved bestiality for the military. Where's PETA? Can kill them, but lock 'em up for pissing on a corpse? TSA is strip searching little old ladies. Let's start there and work our way down.
It's that damn Devil's Messiah Lindsey Williams was talking about. Got to create the craziest world possible so when the shit hits the fan everybody remains as docile as hindu cows.
Mr. Lennon, always read your thoughts. Lindsey Williams is chatty, but might on to something there. Big picture goal of the current adminstration does seem to be to divide the national will to prevent any cohesive resistance for what is to come next. Fight the war before the war. Psyops.... NDAA... Martial law.
Anonymous: "Obama runs the country like Roseanne Barr sings the National Anthem."
Obama runs nothing. Have we not yet learned that Obama is a puppet. Geez!
apparently not.
Oh, he signed quite a lot of laws that did not have to, laws that would have been defeated, so there's that.
Also, tripling down in the graveyard of empires was his call. Afghanistan? The guy hates the US military enough to send them to flail with rules of engagement tougher that SWAT teams use stateside, with a preannounced draw down date, letting Karzai be Karzai. The right answer there is to periodically go in and wipe out the bad governments that crop up, brutally and on a budget, then leave without wasting a red cent on the black hole of "development" a la United Nations definitions of such.
Golden Showers are the new secret weapon....
"No one saw this coming" said the Taliban Leaders.
If coming was involved that would be perturbing enough to make news.
I will worry about the conduct of our military when the Taliban and Al Qaeda stop using non-combatants as human shields and coerced individuals as "suicide" bombers. I have travelled widely during my career and have no regard for cowards with a cause whether they are from Northern Ireland or Afghanistan.
I have no use for cowards with opinions that live in a world restrained by the Pax Americana (yes, enforced by our military) from entering a new Dark Ages. Absent the service of these pit bulls, who would be so naive as to believe the world would be a better place?
Let the military address these infractions and pray free us from the braying of idealogical jacjasses.
barliman
Brave men drop ordnance of people from a mile high. The real heroes take their chances against great odds by piloting drones a full hemisphere away from their wiley prey.
Brave men & women go in harms way every day on the ground to keep the savagery of the the Taliban in check. Brave men & women pilot our planes and our drones in order to protect our people on the ground and kill our enemies.
Presuming your words are couched in sarcasm does not seem to be off the mark.
Your username must be the same or do you idolize a man who took every benefit available to him over the natives in this country?
barliman
The Crockett Almanac was a violent and surrealistic penny press publication of the 1830s and 40s which influenced the literary style of the authors of the American Renaissance such as Melville and Poe.
Why is it necessary to keep "the Taliban" in check? "The Taliban" are simply the Pashtun who represent a plurality of Afghans. Can you honestly say that if a foreign army occupied your home state that you would stand by peaceably rather than defend your home?
Intersting commentary on CrockettAlmanac.com - really - I almost didn't notice your lack of an answer with regard to YOUR position/interest/take with regard to it.
And that would be?
Hmmmmmm, I'll presume you're both illiterate and ill-informed when you question WHY it would be a good thing to keep a group DEDICATED to the violent oppresion of women, anything resembling freedom of thought or religion, destruction of historical works of art more than 1,000 years old, murdering of children and the unlimited use of terror internally against the Pashtuns (among others). [ Didn't read any of the commentary on the Taliban in these comments? Turned off virtually all media sources in the 2000 time frame when the were documenting the Taliban's reign of terror?]
Your illogical leap to the Taliban being equivalent/representative of Pashtuns and a plurality of Afghans leaves me hoping you will have an opportunity at some point to try to defend the Taliban in person to ANY group of Afghani's.
"If a foreign army occupied my state ..." - again the loose logic, willful ignorance on why the Taliban are beyond the pale and moral equivalency argument effort - not that you see any of those problems in your question. I pity the foreign army attempting to occupy my state. Myself and others would be among the expendables. Collectively, the first wave have on average many years of experience with arms and expertise in hunting. We know the ground and have made clear to our heirs and assigns that we have no expectation of long term survival. Our only goal would be to reduce the number of effectives in the occupying army. Having respect for human life and ourselves, we have no need to target the innocent.
If a foreign army wants my country/state/freedom/life/arms?
molon labé
barliman
I've made a study of the roots of the American Renaissance. It's a literary pursuit as one would rightly conclude upon reading my previous post.
Feel free to go off and defeat the evil Taliban if you like. But don't claim to do it in my name or try to pay for it with my dime, moocher.
Ahhhh, a literary dilettante. Well that answers the loose logic, willful ignorance on why the Taliban are beyond the pale and moral equivalency part of my questions.
"It's a literary pursuit as one would rightly conclude upon reading my previous post." - Hmmmmmmmm???? What was your previous post again?
"The Crockett Almanac was a violent and surrealistic penny press publication of the 1830s and 40s which influenced the literary style of the authors of the American Renaissance such as Melville and Poe."
How strange?!? You answer my question about your Username which is CrockettAlmanac.com with a misleading reference to the Crockett Alamanac published in the 19th century and from that I should conclude what you want me to conclude?!?
http://crockettalmanac.com/
is an active website titled "Crockett Alamanac for the year 2011" and seems to have a distinct link to the Ron Paul candidacy.
Ron Paul Forum DebutsSeptember 22nd, 2011
Crockett’s Ron Paul Forum (in association with RonPaulExplorer.com) is now up and running. It’s a big, empty room with lots of features even I don’t know about yet. Come on by and discuss the good doctor and his 2012 campaign.
so, what is YOUR position/interest/take with regard to it?
Supporting Ron Paul is the moral equivalent of meringue - it's light, airy and does not leave a bad taste in one's mouth. Like meringue, it lacks any substance or provide any sustenance. I am reminded of ths famous quote when I think of Ron Paul:
'For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.' (This is frequently attributed to H.L. Mencken but, ironically, there is some dispute in that regard.)
Ron Paul means well but he would quickly challenge the current President's level of incompetency trying to deal with real world solutions.
"But don't claim to do it in my name or try to pay for it with my dime, moocher." Ahhhh, the ad hominem attack. The inevitable argument used by those bereft of logic or facts.
Bon Soir,
barliman
P.S. what is YOUR position/interest/take with regard to it?
That's my website. My picture is on the about page. Is that really so hard to figure out?
And you are a moocher if you want me to pay for killing innocent people because of your irrational fears. A homicidal moocher.
No, it was quite easy to figure out. Getting you to admit it ...
Exactly where did I comment that I wanted you to pay for killing innocent people???
barliman
P.S. Google ad hominem - 'cause at this rate you are only going to keep embarassing yourself.
I chose CrockettAlmanac.com as my username because I publish CrockettAlmanac.com. Why do you believe that you had to force me to admit it?
I'm glad to hear that you do not want the US government to use my tax money to pursue wars in the Middle East.
The question was ...
Exactly where did I comment that I wanted you to pay for killing innocent people???
And somehow you reply:
"I'm glad to hear that you do not want the US government to use my tax money to pursue wars in the Middle East."
Which is you answering with what you want to say and completely unrelated to my question, fighting the Taliban (they are based in Afghanistan which is nowhere near the Middle East), and the thread.
Seriously, give it up dude. You ARE embarrassing yourself. Anybody who has read this far done may be someone who emails you about a Nigerian prince wanting to give you money to support your site ... and given your inability to stay on track, you might just believe them.
barliman
Afghanistan is nowhere near the Middle East? Do you own a map?
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/maps/refmap_...
Extra thought:
"I have travelled widely during my career ..." - This has given me the opportunity to see the increase in the use of terrorism and on more than one occasion to be in a location besides the United States while terrorism was underway. From the IRA to the Provos to various groups acting in the name of Islam, these are not freedom fighters. They are sociopaths.
Which is the greater evil? The sociopath who targets their own people? Or the fools that stand apart and away from their actions and consequences but justify them as the acts of "freedom fighters"?
barliman
I just love it when people sit in their living rooms in front of their TVs start talking about how men who are constantly under fire should do this, should not do that, and talk from some moral high ground about things they know fuck all about. Hey , armchair generals, unless you have been shot at lately (only automatic fire qualifies), or had an 81mm mortar through your roof recently, shut the fuck up, and stop lecturing on morals. You lost your moral highground when you voted for the jackasses that sent these people there in the first place, and the jackasses that keep them there despite no good reason for doing so. Regardless, your morals do not apply there period. Now shut up, and go back to playing Call of Duty and feeling hardcore and shit.
If morality has no place in War then why the outrage against the Nazi Regime? Why the outrage over 911? Why the outrage over the Taliban? How can their actions be wrong, immoral, or unacceptable? If it is not immoral to piss on a dead enemy is it immoral to ass rape one? The answer must be no according to your line of reasoning, in fact it would not only be quite acceptable, but should be applauded. You obviously don't know shit about morality, war, or automatic gunfire.
There is no code of conduct on the battlefield when the lead is flying. You either win...or you lose. Morality does not apply.
Morality does come into play when there are prisoners or civillians involved. From where I sit, to equate battlefield actions with Nazi death camps or raping/torturing civillians is itself immoral.
The United States has a history of waging wars from the moral high ground, we are not barbarians after all.(?) There is honorable service to ones country which sometimes requires killing, which can be accomplished respectfully and accepted morally; and there is murder, which is wholly unacceptable and immoral according to societal standards. Desecrating a corps is dishonorable and immoral. Only a psychopath would find this behavior to be within the parameters of justifiable action at any time. Most men who go into battle do so believing that the enemy is inherently bad. Morality is the prime consideration for justifying killing. Now if you would like to make the argument that our brave men and women overseas are murderers, then we can agree that morality plays no integral part in the art of war and it is a simple reduction to "might makes right"........Darwinism at it's logical conclusion, where the depravity of man reigns supreme.
You get high marks for your patriotism, but maybe you should spend time with some real history books insead of the Cliff's Notes.
History can only be understood through a thorough knowledge of the philosophical concepts that predestine mankind to incessantly repeat said history. It is evident that you do not understand everything you know about this/these subject(s).
Let me guess. Major in Econ, minor in Social Sciences, right?
After you finish your first tour with a rifle platoon, get back to me & we can have a nice little philosophical discussion.
In the meantime, take a little refresher course with Konrad Lorenz on the topic of aggression.
Camps for japs were cool though? The victor writes history
WTF? What do any of the things you are ranting about have to do with front line actions and incidents? Unless you count compiling statistics for the rate of combustion of the human body based on fat content, or the effectiveness of Zyclon-B versus air humidity as transgressions of combat fatigued troops. As for the rest I just give up, you can't tell the difference between planed genocide and war. Then again by your reasoning the Axis should have won, because get this, in order to win the war the allies did: The firebombing of Dresden, Hamburg, Munich, Tokyo, and several other places. Burned them like rats don't have illusions about this. Then there is the nuclear thing, but oh I forgot, dropping the bomb in WWII in your mind is similar to 911. These actions are not in any way equivalent. You cannot possibly be that confused. Go read about the treatment the German POWs got from the Allies. Pissing on them is nothing. That was on the western side mind you. Forget about the Russians.
I fear you may be another victim of the bankrupt doctrines of moral relativism. Fear not, for you are in good company judging by many of these posts. Your double standards are showing.
Last time I looked the first amendment also applies to civilians, who by the way pay the salaries of the military! Just a coincidence I am sure, but poppy seed production is up 13 fold since we invaded Afghanistan!
Not one day passes where I don't regret leaving the military as soon as I could. As the saying goes, if knew then what I know now....
It is impossible to expect an instutiton whose existence is based upon violence and threat of violence to somehow become moral by attracting more upstanding individuals. The military, like any other insitution, receives exactly what it asks for: folks who will kill without conscience.
Anyone expressing outrage at this incident should remember that a corrupt, sociopathic institution produes corrupt, sociopathic products. Pissing on corpses is merely the manifestation of several years of effective brainwashing.
Having spent not a little time in the .mil it is my considered opinion that, contrary to popular belief, Infantry men are not stupid, in fact their composite IQ scores are quite good. Since the end of the draft, most peoples perception of the military is formed by movies and media outlets. Hm.
Having spent a little time with higher education, it soon became apparent to me who was REALLY brainwashed - Civilians. Quit school, and went back in the .mil
Some of the most intelligent, hard working AND common sense individuals one could ever hope to meet. None of this means, by any stretch, the military approves of any of the nonsense foisted upon them. Yeah, "that's what they signed up for."
Sure.
"Some of the most intelligent, hard working AND common sense individuals one could ever hope to meet. "
Yeah, cut the crap and deal with the reality at hand tends to do that to people.
Your post reminded me one soviet joke about the army.
Officer asks civilian: "if you, civilians, are so smart, why do not you know how to march?"
anything to distract the spotlight from what is really going on... This incident, while stupid, doesnt matter AT ALL. Stop letting them distract you.
A little piss in your face isn't as bad as acid. I feel more sorry for all the women and children that are raped and mutiliated by Taliban everyday. Why doesn't the media give as much attention to all the women forced to marry worthless pieces of shit in Religious Loserville?
ahhh, the amrkn military's "dirty little secret":
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/dec/09/rape-us-military
and if you're not happy with that recent source article, get a search going - there's thousands of other stories awaiting your attention.
Hillary's fake moral outrage, was more digusting than what the soldiers did. One day she's gloating about coming, seeing, dying. Then she puts on the outraged cap, when a couple of soldiers bad actions threaten her status as the morality queen,ruler of the universe! What a dispicable person!
Most of Hillary's problems can likely be attributed to the size of Slick's dick.
They kill us, we kill them.
Can we just fast-forward to the day when the human race finally kills itself off of the face of the Earth already and skip all of the undercard bouts?
Who wants to watch S.D. "Special Delivery" Jones get squashed by King Kong Bundy when there's Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant waiting in the wings?
TSAR Pointless:
We kill them, they kill us, Eye for an eye,...
So the killings will continue until morale improves?
Like I said - I'm ready for Hulk vs. Andre. Bring it!
There is a storm gathering in the FX currentseas.
Yep, since 2008.. Details for those of FX challenged..
piss when it leaves the body is sterile,,,, so it was a cleansing process
So that old piece of "artwork" called Piss Christ was a good thing in your opinion?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ
The only good thing about Piss Christ was that it put a stop to individual artist grants from the NEA. More stringent requirements were also put in place for groups receiving taxpayers funds, which in my opinion, is a good thing.
The funny thing about those grants: They supposedly went just to friends of the National Endowment for the Arts directors, who reportedly traded favors and votes for the recipients they wanted (I can't give you the citation but it was a juicy Art in America or Art Forum article a number of years back. Quite a scandal.). They were intended to help "emerging artists" and thus help them establish a career but instead went to artists who today would be labeled the 1%.
Good art enriches a society, sure, but it ought to have to survive the marketplace of ideas and succeed on its own merit.
I once wrote a letter to the editor in favor of the NEA. But that was a million years ago. Silly me.
Funny how perspective changes with time. I think I've got thing figured out better as I've gone along, too.
"The Zionist Story"
http://www.youtube.com/user/JanRichardus?feature=mhee#p/f/10/ufLAitMq3zI
The Marine who threw the puppy off a cliff while smiling into the camera is one of the bigger pieces of shit to wear the uniform. To the credit of the USMC, they got rid of him.
Aren't they upstairs with the 70 virgins or something like that. Right or wrong it doesn't matter they're dead. We are running an illegal war over there so ..... so we piss on a few dead guys - sue us.
I'm glad that our religion doesn't have absurd notions about "the afterlife."
"but neither do they teach them not to do them, or demand that honorable conduct be peer-enforced. "
Yes they do ya piece of shit. This is why we haven't seen soldiers holding Taliban heads up for pictures while wearing necklaces of ears. The few bad apples that take 30 seconds (in this case) or 30 days (in the case of AbuGhraib) and do something dumb, are the clear minority, the less than .001% of the entire US Military Armed forces and MUCH LESS than the Taliban/AQ loonatics who acid burn little girls faces , BEHEAD reporters, stone women, drag US Military Bodies through the streets (Mogadishu), execute women for not being virgin, and run over peoples heads with cars in their down time.
Switching accounts in rapid-fire speed again, williamthebastard?
You know, that's kinda non-smart.... it allows anyone with a bit of brain, to quickly expand his list of your known accounts, thus neutralizing a few weeks of your "apply for another account"-work.