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Guest Post: Americans Will Need “Black Markets” To Survive

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Brandon Smith from Alt-Market

Americans Will Need “Black Markets” To Survive

As Americans, we live in two worlds; the world of mainstream fantasy, and the world of day-to-day reality right outside our front doors.  One disappears the moment we shut off our television.  The other, does not… 

When dealing with the economy, it is the foundation blocks that remain when the proverbial house of cards flutters away in the wind, and these basic roots are what we should be most concerned about.  While much of what we see in terms of economic news is awash in a sticky gray cloud of disinformation and uneducated opinion, there are still certain constants that we can always rely on to give us a sense of our general financial environment.  Two of these constants are supply and demand.  Central banks like the private Federal Reserve may have the ability to flood markets with fiat liquidity to skew indexes and stocks, and our government certainly has the ability to interpret employment numbers in such a way as to paint the rosiest picture possible, but ultimately, these entities cannot artificially manipulate the public into a state of demand when they are, for all intents and purposes, dead broke. 

In contrast, the establishment does have the ability to make specific demands or necessities illegal to possess, and can even attempt to restrict their supply.  Though, in most cases this leads not to the control they seek, but a sudden and sharp loss of regulation through the growth of covert trade.  The people need what the people need, and no government, no matter how titanic, can stop them from getting these commodities when demand is strong enough.

This process of removing necessary or desirable items from a trade environment leads inevitably to counter-prohibition often in the form of strict cash transactions, barter markets, or “black markets” as they are normally derided by those in power.  The problem for economic totalitarians is that the harder they squeeze the masses, the more intricate the rebellion becomes, especially when all they want is to participate in free markets the way our forefathers intended. 

The so called “drug war” is proof positive of the impossibility of locking down a product, especially one that has no moral bearing on the people who are involved in its use.  Only when a considerable majority of a populace can be convinced of the inherent immoral nature of an illicit item can its trade finally be squelched.  During any attempt to outlaw a form of commerce, a steady stream of informants convinced of their service to the “greater good” is required for success.  Dishonorable governments, therefore, do not usually engage in direct confrontation with black markets.  Instead, they seek to encourage the public to view trade outside mainstream legal standards as “taboo”.  They must condition us to react with guilt or misplaced righteousness in the face of black market activity, and associate its conduct as dangerous and destructive to the community, turning citizens into an appendage of the bureaucratic eye.

But, what happens when black markets, due to calamity, become a pillar of survival for a society?  What happens when the mainstream economy no longer meets the available demand?  What happens when this condition has been deliberately engineered by the power structure to hasten cultural desperation and dependence?

In this event, black markets not only sustain a nation through times of weakness, but they also become a form of revolution; a method for fighting back against the centralization of oppressive oligarchies and diminishing their ability to bottleneck important resources.  Black markets are a means of fighting back, and are as important as any weapon in the battle for liberty.  Here are just a few reasons why such organizational actions may be required in the near future…

The Mainstream Economy Is Slowly Killing Us

There are, unfortunately, some Americans out there who have not caught on yet to the grave circumstances in which we live.  Obviously, the stock market seems to have nearly recovered from its epic collapse in 2008 and 2009, and employment, according to the Labor Department, is on the mend.  The numbers say it all, right?  Wrong!  The numbers say very little, especially when they are a product of “creative mathematics”.

Despite the extreme spike in the Dow Jones since 2010, and all the talk of recovery, what the mainstream rarely mentions are the details surrounding this miraculous return from the dead for stocks. 

One of the most important factors to consider when gauging the health of the markets is “volume”; the amount of shares being traded and the amount of investors active on any given business day.  Since the very beginning of the Dow’s meteoric rise, the markets have been stricken with undeniably low volume interspersed with all too brief moments of activity.  In fact, this past January recorded the lowest NYSE volume since 1999:

Market volume has tumbled over 20% since last year, and is down over 50% from 2008 when the debt implosion began:

So then, if trade is sinking, why has the Dow jumped to nearly 13,000?  Low volume is the key.  In a low volume market, less individual investors are present to counteract the buying and selling of larger players, like international banks.  When this happens, the big boys are able to trigger market spikes, or market drops, literally at will.  Add to this the high probability that much of the stimulus that the Federal Reserve has regurgitated into the ether probably ended up in the coffers of corporate banks which then used the funny money to snap up equities, and presto!  Instant market rally!  But, a rally that is illusory and unstable.

Improving employment numbers are yet another financial hologram.  As most of us in the Liberty Movement are well aware, the Labor Department does not calculate true unemployment in the U.S.  Instead, it merely calculates those people who currently receive unemployment benefits.  Once a person hits the extension limit (99 weeks in many states) on his benefits, he is removed from the rolls, and is no longer counted in the “official” unemployment percentage.  While Barack Obama and MSM pundits are quick to point out the drop in jobless to 8.3%, what they conveniently fail to mention is that MILLIONS of Americans have been unemployed for so long that they have been removed from the statistics entirely, and this condition is what has caused the primary fall in jobless percentages, not burgeoning business growth.

Roughly 11 million Americans who are jobless have nonetheless been excluded from the statistical government tally because of a loss of benefits:

According to the Congressional Budget Office, over 40% of the currently unemployed have been so for over 6 months.  It also points out that America is suffering the worst case of long term unemployment since the Great Depression:

More than 10.5 million people in the U.S. also receive disability payments, which automatically removes them from the unemployment count, making it seem as though jobs are being created, rather than lost:

Around 8.2 million Americans only work part time, meaning they work less hours than are generally considered to be necessary for self-support.  These people are still counted as “employed” even if they work a few hours a week.

True unemployment, according to John Williams of Shadowstats, is hovering near 23%:

Combine these circumstances with the ever weakening dollar, price inflation in foods and other commodities, and rocketing energy costs, and you have an economy that is strangling the life out of the middle-class and the poor in this country.  It is only a matter of time before the populace begins searching for alternative means of subsistence, even if that entails “illegal” activities.

Government Cracking Down On Freedom Of Trade

I was recently walking through the parking lot of a grocery store and ran into a group of women huddled intently around the back of a mini-van.  One of the women was reaching into a cooler and handing out glass containers filled with milk.  I approached to ask if she was selling raw milk, and if so, how much was she charging.  Of course, they turned startled and wide eyed as if I had just stumbled upon their secret opium ring.  Somehow it had slipped my mind how ferocious the FDA has become when tracking down raw milk producers.  The fact that these women were absolutely terrified of being caught with something as innocuous as MILK was disturbing to me.  How could we as a society allow this insanity on the part of our government to continue? 

That moment reminded me of the utter irrelevance of petty law, as well as the determination of human beings to defy such law. 

The Orwellian hammer has been thrust in the face of those who trade in raw milk, organic produce, and herbal supplements, while small businesses are annihilated by government dues and red tape.  In the meantime, law enforcement officials have been sent strapped to shut down children’s lemonade stands (no, seriously):

Government legislation which would give the FDA jurisdiction over personal gardens has been fielded.  Retail gold and silver purchases of over $600 are now tracked and taxed.  The IRS even believes it has the right to tax barter exchanges, even though they do not explain how bartered goods could be legally qualified as “income”, or how they can conceive of ever being able to trace such private trade:,,id=205581,00.html

Want to choose what kind of currency you would like to use to protect your buying power?  Not if  the Department Of Justice’s Anne Tompkins has anything to say about it. After the railroading of Liberty Dollar founder Bernard von NotHaus, she stated:

“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism…”

“While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country,” she added. “We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government.”

As our economic situation grows increasingly precarious in this country, more and more people will turn towards localized non-corporate, non-mainstream business methods and products.  And, the government will no doubt attempt to greatly restrict or tax these alternatives.  This mentality is driven in part by their insatiable appetite for money, but mostly, it’s about domination.  They do what they do because they fear decentralized markets, and the ability of the citizenry to conceive of choices outside the system.  Slaves are not supposed to choose the economy they will participate in…

A “black market” is only a trade dynamic that the government disapproves of, and the government disapproves of most things these days.  Frankly, its time to stop worrying about what Washington D.C. consents to.  They have unfailingly demonstrated through rhetoric and action that they are not interested in the fiscal or social health of this nation, and so, we must take matters into our own hands. 

Black Market Advantages

If the events in EU nations such as Greece, Spain, and Italy are any indication, the U.S., with its massive debt to GDP ratio (real debt includes entitlement programs), is looking at one of two possible scenarios:  default, austerity measures, and high taxes, or, hyperinflation, and then default, austerity measures, and high taxes.  In the past we have mentioned barter networking and alternative market programs springing up in countries like Greece and Spain allowing the people to cope with the faltering economy.  Much of this trade is done away from the watchful eyes of government, simply because they cannot afford the gnashing buffalo-sized bites that bureaucrats would take from their savings in the process.  When a government goes rogue, and causes the people harm, the people are in no way obligated to continue supporting that government. 

Black markets give the citizenry a means to protest the taxation of a government that no longer represents them.  In a country stricken with austerity, these networks allow the public to thrive without having to pay for the mistakes or misdeeds of political officials and corporate swindlers.  In a hyperinflationary environment, black markets (or barter markets that have been deemed unlawful), can be used to supplant the imploding fiat currency altogether, and energize community markets that would otherwise be unable to function.  Ultimately, black markets feed and clothe the grassroots movement towards economic responsibility, and every man and woman with any sense of independence should rally around this resource with the intention to fight should it ever be threatened. 

“Legality” is arbitrary in the face of inherent conscience, or what some call “natural law”.  Without arbitrary legality, and unjust and unwarranted regulation, many federal alphabet agencies would not exist, including the FDA, the IRS, the EPA, the BLM, etc.  These institutions do not matter.  What they say has no meaning.  What matters is what is honorable, what is factual, and what is right.  Our loyalty, as Americans, is to our principles and our heritage.  Beyond that, we don’t owe anyone anything.  A black market in one place and time is a legitimate market in another.  For now, private localized trade is able to flow with only minor interference, but there will come a day when even the most practical and harmless personal transactions will be visited with administrative reproach and vitriol.  Alternative market champions will be accused of “extremism”, and undermining the mainstream economy.  We will be vilified as separatists, isolationists, terrorists, and traitors.  I believe it will be far more surreal than what we can possibly imagine now.  

They are welcome to call us whatever they like.  Honestly……who cares?  Let the paper pushers do their angry little dance.  The goal is freedom; in life, in politics, and in trade.    If we do not change how this country does business ourselves, the results will be far more frightening than any government agent at our doorstep, and the costs will be absolute…


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Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:11 | 2220088 AbruptlyKawaii
AbruptlyKawaii's picture

system d bichezz

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:15 | 2220102 Ahmeexnal
Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:06 | 2220530 Kipper und Wipp...
Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:15 | 2220539 gangland
gangland's picture

helyea das hot! but i was thinking more like this


stay up

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 12:56 | 2221770 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Not bad, but this is the tight shit right here.


stay flaccid

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 18:29 | 2233839 AbruptlyKawaii
AbruptlyKawaii's picture

the world is a corporate college...great flik network....the world is a business...

badass tune blast that shit!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:43 | 2220160 ZippyBananaPants
ZippyBananaPants's picture

Question: does Greece do the debt swap and THEN default on those new bonds? So there will be no CDS triggered?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:17 | 2220453 AbruptlyKawaii
AbruptlyKawaii's picture

only kinetic cds will be triggered

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:19 | 2220525 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If you want to remain as free as possible, remember these words (I am not a doomsday prepper, but given the events of recent years - topping it all off with decapitation of the Constitution of The United States with such things as NDAA 2012 - it would at least behoove people to do some preparation for lean times ahead). Independence is only possible based on self-reliance.

Forget about the false left-right paradigm, and moreover, the false paradigm of choice those in power have convinced so many really exists. It doesn't. There is no democracy. There is no republic. The people making the important decisions, laws and running the global supply chain do not believe that human beings are anything more than a commodity.


*The following are not my words, but an alternate interpretration of the pillars in 1984, that deviates from the allegorical 'lesson plan' as taught by state sponsored educational institutions, that I thought was quite excellent.


War is Peace

Freedom is Slavery

Ignorance is Strength



War is Peace:

  • By creating a perpetual war, and one that cannot be won, the party has, in effect, created peace within Oceania. If the entire population stands behind a war then they will do nothing to weaken the country, especially if the balance of power is constantly shifting. Any weakening of the party would give enemy nation a chance to play against this weakness, and thus, puts the entire country at risk.

  • As long as there is no accumulated wealth there can be no uprising. And war, even better, war without end, is the easiest way to consume wealth and resources. Thus, the easiest way to have peace is to have a continuing war instead of constantly struggling against those who oppose what problems are inherent in peace.

  • Although the Party attempts to advance technologically, the only real advances they make are in war efforts. Again, there is no struggle from those who oppose peace, because life remains, in all aspects, war active.

  • Therefore, the war that shifts enemies, but remains active will keep the peace of a nation. This, ironically enough, is a stronger peace than any other Utopian ideal, because there can never be any strong resistance within the nation for fear of creating a weakness that the enemy could exploit and then overthrow.

Freedom is Slavery:

  • When people have the freedom to do, and even think, what they want, the potential to oppose the government exists. And if one opposes the government they create a state of fear for the population, because strong opposition (and thus, revolution) leads to bloodshed. (The only bloodless revolution is one where the government steps down and those with power rarely just give it up.) So, by allowing freedom, the party would be allowing the rebels to enslave others to their fear (If the party allows such liberties as personal freedom, they run the risk of having others enslave people by abusing these personal freedoms).

  • Freedom is what drives the arts. And from art comes the strongest form of rebellion of all: creativity. Thoughts of "better" times. Stifle freedom and you stifle all desire to change.

  • The only logical step for the Party, then, is to remove the freedoms and take control away from the people. 

  • It is important to note that there is a great chaos in allowing people to live free. By allowing a choice in what one wants to do, they allow for inefficiency. Just because one wants to do something, does not mean they will be the most skilled at that task. Thus, freedom is inefficient.

Ignorance is Strength:

  • The only way to keep an idea strong is to remove all suspicion of doubt. If one has no reason to question a belief, then that belief will remain. And if this lack of questioning can become indefinite, then the belief is also indefinite. Keeping people ignorant prevents doubt and creates a powerful strength in the idea.

  • It is the same idea that caused witch hunts in centuries past. By manipulating people's ignorance of medicine-women, one could easily claim that they used dark arts. The lack of knowledge about how these healers worked caused mass inquisitions. The group was strong in their ideals because they knew nothing of how the "witches" worked.

  • Big Brother can, through the control of history, make themselves seem akin to God. Winston himself, at the end, admits, "God is power." The power to alter history and make it seem as if you had predicted everything is the power to declare oneself God. Or even better, to have others view you as God without being prodded.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:23 | 2220559 AbruptlyKawaii
AbruptlyKawaii's picture

teknolgie = choice = freedumb = sapienzzzz = #FAIL + CHRNOBYLFUKUSHIMA3MIVERM ONTYAAAANKEEEEEEEDEEEEYABLOOOKANYOOONSANBLAH blah blah ssapines is a dead end

either darwin is right or ORRRR we homo sapiens are right.....


feel me? ha! lmao dual existence

yet the stoopid species cat hac kit that way or in even a ..haha frekin ...humanz ..species is a a fast ebola that kills itself


...& never ever prod me or ...nver evr prod anyone man it's fuking annoying as shit....unless ur a kid in which case ur excused but u will eventually learn ...nver fuking PROD!

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 02:51 | 2220567 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If you understand Orwell's, Bradbury's or many other thinkers' views on technology, there's a common thought that they shared, whereby technology would be hijacked by the state as a means to consolidate the state's power and control.

We've already seen this; The Apple iSpy. It's everywhere, and will accelerate. There will be literally nothing that is private in short order.

'Smart phones', webcams and other gadgets that take pictures/video of you remotely and compile a list of where you've been, who you've spoken with as well as what was said, text messages and can track you in real time; CCT in every major city and many minor ones, with 360 degree surveilance; RFID in vehicles communicating with RFID devices on roads; social networking and search apparatus that compiles a permanent and complete  record of all your inquiries, posts, commentary, opinions and behavior; the development and deployment (already happening) of drones flying over American cities, in a blanket network of real time eyes in the sky.

But the rational all the while through the present is that "if you're not doing anything wrong, you need not worry."

If that's true, let's just shred the constitution, and abandon any notion of due process or inalienable rights.

Oh, that's right, they have.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 09:46 | 2221510 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

What the fuck is the point of reading something such as your post? Learn to communicate in proper English or stay quiet and suck that glass dick you seem to be drawing some type of bizarre inspiration from.

You destroy any rational thought of anyone listening and heeding what you say by the gibberish you clumsily spat above.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:57 | 2220519 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture


nice one

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:43 | 2220501 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Luckily in a system collapse human instinct kicks in and black markets thrive. They are needed in a time of crisis or government manipulation.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:12 | 2220092 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

"True unemployment, according to John Williams of Shadowstats, is hovering near 23%."

Holy shitbags...I figured as much but to see it in writing, is a stunning stat.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:27 | 2220093 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Dishonorable governments, therefore, do not usually engage in direct confrontation with black markets.  Instead, they seek to encourage the public to view trade outside mainstream legal standards as “taboo”.  They must condition us to react with guilt or misplaced righteousness in the face of black market activity, and associate its conduct as dangerous and destructive to the community, turning citizens into an appendage of the bureaucratic eye.

We're talking about a populace that thinks nothing of stripping a store bare in five minutes after a big night of bread and circus:

So....onto counter black market Plan B....

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:42 | 2220159 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

If people will savage one another for tennis shoes, what will they do for food and water?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:10 | 2220220 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

They mostly come at night...



Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:27 | 2220470 AbruptlyKawaii
Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:00 | 2220523 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Answer: Cut down on a particular voting bloc..  Of course dead people vote but its a start..

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:55 | 2220316 xela2200
xela2200's picture


Every red vote makes your point.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:12 | 2220094 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Barter Bitchez...

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 03:43 | 2221262 Element
Element's picture

Barter is mostly too slow for states, and for humans.

That's why people wanted to use gold, but gold is also too inconvenient.

Thus we used IOUs to redeem gold.

Then got paper dollars, because they're convenient and extremely fast to transact, move about and settle more trades in rapid succession.

Barter can't compete with that.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 11:46 | 2221647 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Thanks for the Schoolhouse Rock history lesson, but competition between two functioning systems isn't the point here. You want speed? Is this fast enough for you?

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 04:09 | 2223382 Element
Element's picture

My point is that some mechanisms of trade settlement are much preferred by most people.

Barter is a niche option that does not last long when people have a more efficient and faster medium of exchange for trades.

So you bring in this unrelated crap about the speed of US Public Debt accumulation?

yeah ... sure ...

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:12 | 2220096 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

We're practically Greece when it comes to the unemployment numbers (the real ones).

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:31 | 2220574 debtandtaxes
debtandtaxes's picture

The US is "practically Greece" in more ways than unemployment numbers! Being the world reserve currency is your salvation.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:13 | 2220097 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Free market = Black market

For centuries that's been the only true formula in economics.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:04 | 2220528 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

un-taxed markets

trade without the thieving fingers of the parasites of Govt

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:15 | 2220101 doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

Thats racist!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:47 | 2220168 It is a bargin ...
It is a bargin my friend's picture

Only if you trade in them

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:19 | 2220104 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

The grey markets have never gone away. Hence for new FinCen measures and expanding the IRS staff. If you have a penny under the couch, they intend to find out and question on how you acquired that penny. At 15.1% unemployment levels, no one would of ever saw this coming.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:48 | 2220689 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

You have no idea! The son of a friend of mine just got back from IRS boot camp.  I'm not kidding here.  He went for several months thereabouts. He was housed in barracks in DC with a bunch of other potential IRS prospects and they ate mess-style. They were planning on hiring about a third of them.  Maybe more later. I don't know if he didn't make the grade or just couldn't stomach it.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 03:47 | 2221268 Element
Element's picture

Army of the zombie arseholes ... where's WB7?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:56 | 2220105 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Quiet. I own a Radio Station.  You guys missed it. Radio stations are the BIGGEST TRADE whores on this Blue Marble.

  Always have been, and will be. Air Time trade is hard to trace.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:25 | 2220459 AbruptlyKawaii
AbruptlyKawaii's picture

hada  guy some kind of doctor very old in his late 80s who pulled 11 mill out of his 1968 $58k original price house in a refi he used 30 million in air as extra collateral the loan committee took it 30 million in fcc licenses unused spectrum or whatever the fuck

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:32 | 2220765 tired1
tired1's picture

Sounds like WinStar., what a mess tha was.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:21 | 2220113 Hulk
Hulk's picture

In my neck of the woods, barter never died and has picked up in pace. Rifles for dogs, garden grown vegetables, hooch, cooch, fishing poles, four wheelers, chopped wood, you name it, we trade it. Canning has picked up considerably. We even switch growing potatoes with the folks across the crik (to control diseases, an age old practice here). Good luck regulating that you beaurocratic, parasitic, evil doing good for nothings...

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:20 | 2220182 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

That trick works well with Pumpkins and ( other), Squash as well HULK!  Cantelope and others mellons you ass hats!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:25 | 2220253 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Lost all my PM's in that there crik YC, trading tators back and forth...

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:54 | 2220314 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Stay flat. All in, is the (long) stops we blow out on the way down! Those taters are super good for ya. I use them with all sorts of white meat/ and an occasional steak!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:57 | 2220321 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That is a real and growing problem there Hulk.  Taking those PMs along when trading tators.  And losing them in the water.  It's happening all the time I hear.  You are NOT alone!

Please accept my sincere condolences.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 18:32 | 2220366 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Shiniest crik bottom in all of Appalachia DoChen!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:41 | 2220668 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

I suggest you Google "Kommisar".

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 07:10 | 2221401 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

150 million hits that also mention "Sebelius".

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:45 | 2220684 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

Well, ain't that sumpin' Jethro? Do you "barter" for your electric bill? your internet provider, that allows you to bloviate here? The Apple Store?

Guess you and your kin ain't so far off the ol' grid as you'd like like to think, peckerwood...

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:16 | 2220852 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Only a total hipsteresque, metrosexual nancy boy would even reference the apple store.

Read his posts again, does he mention Pabst blue Ribbon? Single speed bikes, or fucking indy bands?

While you're trying to avoid wafish neuvo-riche zombies near Williamsburg in your skin tight jeans, ol Hulk will be having a nice potato and venison dinner, wondering how many of his buddies on Zerohedge either ended up as a chew toy, or are sitting around camping listening to the screams of inner city fags.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 03:17 | 2221231 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

Electric bill?

Apple fucking store?

You make the little joke, right?

Off the grid is off the grid, you do not seem to get that at all.

I've been off 40 years - and as a matter of fact, some folks do barter for their internet service around here - we have three really cool local providers. 

Apple store - oh fuck me - hehehehehehehe. The only apple store I've ever been in is a roadside stand that sells like, apples - the kind you can eat and/or cook and/or dry or make apple sauce or apple butter or stuff like that. (We have three producing organic apple trees - good stuff!)

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 07:15 | 2221409 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Yeah, but the Feds and local regulators are working hard to make sure that those farm stands have no easy day competing with the large donors that run the local outlet of your friendly neighborhood supermarket.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:23 | 2220114 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism…”

12 Gold Analyst Types to Ignore

1. Anybody permanently recommending 10% or less as an allocation for gold in a portfolio. (They're rooting for the 90%)


2. Anybody recommending GLD, ETF's, futures, or ANY gold derivative instrument. (Paper pushers, not gold experts)


3. Anybody offering gold pool or unallocated accounts.

4. Any government official either lacking official gold, or who has official gold loaned or leased.


5. Any banking analyst. (Total conflict)


6. Anybody who counts as his friends bankers, and financiers.

7. Any entity who derives income, or takes ad revenue from banking or Wall Street.

8. Anybody whose research is funded by precious metal consumers. (always wanting to buy low)

9. Anybody who makes a living on technical analysis (admitting manipulation is discrediting their method)

10. Anybody who has amassed an enormous paper fortune.

11. Federal Reserve talking heads.

12. Most important: Any analyst of ANY kind that either refuses to acknowledge, or is dismissive of GATA's work. (Ignorant, arrogant, or both)

 For "analysts" like the Nitwit Nadler and Jeffrey Christian it's hard to find an area where they AREN'T conflicted. When you look at the volume of gold "experts" that are conflicted it's easy to see why the public is still largely clueless. CNBC is fond of putting up a scorecard showing each analyst's potential conflicts of interest yet they'll NEVER show a list of conflicts when one of them is bashing gold.

If you want to capitalize on this gold bull then you should never trust anybody with a motive to lie.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:12 | 2220443 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

David, it's always pleasurable to read your posts.

One of the better ZH'ers out there.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:12 | 2220546 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture



Il prend un pour connaître un!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:41 | 2220586 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

Yes it does, but I usually just speak Texan.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:18 | 2220551 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

personally, i can tolerate a little 6-10

thanks for this post, sir!

the legitimate currency of this country = Constitutional gold&silver coinage

it saddens me that, except for "utah" it is difficult to employ this money

somebody who has a car running ought to do a road trip to utah and review the coin shops along the way and maybe the fishing;  then, they could tell us more bout transacting in utah, too

this is critical legislation for the states around these "legal tender" issues;  we need this;  it is our birthright as people of Liberty and we should wake up and see if we can get a louder whisper going, imo

with rPaul running for prez, can we get some music going, here?  some legal arguments before thePeople? sure!

in CA, i feel like i'm in a ren&stimpy show!  i went and paid sales tax at a coin store and took the receipt to my state senator a coupla years ago.  winter.  raining.  on a bike

i think the receptionist became frightened when i explained to her why i was there;  so she gets another staff woman and they decided to get fuking back-up pdq after a brief slewie-consultaion

this athletic-looking dude shows up to protect everybody

he tells me to go to the fuking taxBoard

i tell him i'm here to help his career and this is important.  not the taxes.  the principles.  and i would gladly treat him as in loco senatora(f.?) if he would be so kind as to permit me to briefly lay my case before him;  he's busy so we make an appointment

next week, i go in and nobody freaks;  my guy hands me a copy of all applicable sales tax laws, which was pretty nice, i thought.  so i copied everything from yeOldeCoyneShoppe wrote the USConsitutional references for him, and told him i didn't like getting assfuked by my own governmentS quite this regularly, what with sales and collectible taxes and reporting, and sneaking around like a criminal trying to freaking function, here!

he understood

someday, i told him, he might have the opportunity to do the right thing or advise someone about this  TheEnd

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:21 | 2220115 Reptil
Reptil's picture

one word: RFID


Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:07 | 2220213 xela2200
xela2200's picture

That is actually three words (Radio frequency Identification).

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 18:56 | 2220409 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Anyone who understands the basic concept of how RFID works can also understand that it has an inherent design vulnerability at the physical level. This will prove to be its Achilles Heel, because exploiting it doesn't require any understanding of the protocols used for communication or security. A sufficiently motivated person could wreak utter havoc on any system dependent upon RFID, and could do it for well under $100 in expenses.


Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:15 | 2220552 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

One of the greatest things about technological development is that it permits smarter people to far more easily enslave/exploit stupider people.

Failure to understand the mechnics behind the devices you use every day is a very serious deficiency.  Only if you're very lucky will you not pay the price for that.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 03:22 | 2221238 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

So blunderdog, I agree.

Do you know where your water comes from? Source to tap?

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 18:21 | 2225922 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Know it?  I've SWAM in it!

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 13:36 | 2221766 Reptil
Reptil's picture

Of course. And it's fairly simple to do. (article in popular dutch language, to show it's not the poor security is not a secret)
I'll try to make a point by explaining what happened recently here, when the public transport system (privatised about a decade ago) started using this RFID system. This public transport system is a coöperation between the state and various companies. There is NO competition, so there is no free market for public transport, of competing corporations.

Public transport here relies on RFID now, paper train tickets will be phased out, and most users do NOT exploit the loopholes. There are many problems introducing it, technical mostly.  What is then the discerning factor?
What are the implications of implementing a faulty system?
What is the psychological effect on the masses of such a top-down "currency" vehicle?

The introduction of this electronic system has got absolutely NOTHING to do with revenue, since a state-run public transport system, that would be free to use, for citizens would've been more efficiënt (less cost for the privatised public transport sector), both in the short and long run. (and would have all kinds of beneficial side effects, like stimulation of local economy in a very crowded country) Needless to say the public transport corporations will transfer the high extra cost of this to the users. It was the politicians however that mandated this "OV Chipcard". The benefit of alternatives were clear. But the outcome of research concluding this was ignored. A massive system of terminals and gates was set up throughout the country, a very expensive solution replacing the fairly failsafe and secure preceding system of a countrywide ticket (strippenkaart). So here was another motivation.

The goal was to gain control over mobillity of people, and control over information. Every trip is recorded in the system's database and stored for a limited time (2 months, from the top of my head), and could potentially be stored there for longer periods. There's cameras in the same public transport system, facial recognition when a person enters a vehicle (electric trains in Rotterdam). Offenders' biometric characteristics are stored in a database, and used to deny access (through electronic gates in the trains, but soon in the stations as well) without any human intervention. It's all in place. At any given moment the location of individuals that make use of the RFID public transport system can be extracted. Data on individuals is linked to their movement. Students do not have to pay for using the public transport (directly!). However they're mandated to check in and out, every time, or risk massive fines. Compare this to the system in Japan which is anonymous. There's still the possibillity here to buy and use blank passes, but these do not feature (any) discount system that everyone can have using a personalised card. So you pay (40% more) for anonymity. Inflation is creeping in. A train ticket is now up 46%  from last year. Is there going to be a point where it becomes more interesting for people to hack the card?

Going back to the poor security on this RFID:  What if it's flaws would be exploited on a wider scale, what would the logical next step be of the state?
A more secure system. Even more surveilance. But these adjustments would be introduced without much trouble, since users are already comfortable with usage of the system and widespread surveilance and biometric identification. And those that participate in it will disconnect from those that try to exploit it, and will call for more elaborate security, to protect their investment. Of course that will be translated into the ticket price.

Now take all this in regard, when looking at an "electronic wallet" tied to an RFID identification. It's a win-win strategy for those that want to have control over everyone's exchange of goods and services. Theoretically, and it relies on participation of the populace. It's a mind game. Sure there are those that will hack it. But the (unknown) risk of getting caught does so far outweigh the potential benefit of hacking for most. Yeah or they're just stupid and complacent. The population will get used to using this, and more centralised control mechanisms will be put in place. Then bank accounts will be tied into this, as a next step. Putting credit on the public transport pass, is by charging it from a bank account. Bank accounts throughout the country use electronic payment systems (PIN). Cash is accepted, but drawing money from an account must be through use of this electronic system. (In many ways the Netherlands are like an NWO "model farm" of 17 mlj. inhabitants)
Will the conditioning work? When will they introduce an "electronic only" currency system based on fiat of course? Will the frog boil?

Excuse me please for the long post. I hope it clarifies my POV a bit. RFID and more secure systems are introduced, beccause the system administrators (and farm owners) want more control. No other reason. It's not more efficient.

And yes, it's three words. sheesh ;-)

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 18:26 | 2220358 LowProfile
Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:16 | 2220451 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Your microwave oven will do the same thing.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:19 | 2220557 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

A magnetron from a microwave oven, coupled to a properly tuned horn antenna, will do the same thing, but at a distance and en masse.


Sun, 03/04/2012 - 03:54 | 2221276 Element
Element's picture

Nice, very difficult to practically sheild also.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 13:08 | 2221791 Reptil
Reptil's picture

Awesome. Do you have a link to some technical specifications, please?

The information to hack the (public transport) RFID is freely available on the web, and was published in (german) magazines.


Sun, 03/04/2012 - 16:33 | 2222342 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

The technical specs you'd be looking for would be for tuning the antenna to the frequency of the transmitter. Magnetrons in microwave ovens operate at about 2.4 GHz (the same frequency band used by most wireless access points). A search for 2.4 GHz horn antenna should turn up a lot. As an example, here is a paper on the theory and construction of a 2.4 GHz waveguide-fed horn antenna:

Keep in mind that the above paper discusses the sane use of a 2.4 GHz signal connected to the waveguide via coaxial cable. Anyone contemplating experiments with magnetrons should understand that they would be toying with lethally high voltages. They should also understand that the open end of the horn would be very dangerous during operation and, along with lighting fluorescent tubes, neon lights, and LEDs at a distance, would also quite literally cook anything placed in front of it. Any reflected microwaves would also present hazards analogous to being in a room with hundreds of leaky microwave ovens. Lastly, operation of such a device would probably not be considered lawful.

In summation, safe and sane would not be the proper terms to describe such a project.


Sun, 03/04/2012 - 22:17 | 2222990 Reptil
Reptil's picture

Thank you. I understand that would not be a "toy" but something to be taken seriously.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:23 | 2220117 SilverSailor
SilverSailor's picture

There are already Drugs, Sex, and Weapon dealers that exclusively accept Bitcoin.  As soon as the US dollar collapses, alternative currencies will be there to take up the slack.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 18:55 | 2220407 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Also weapon dealers that will only accept silver, gold or barter.

Bitcoin is still too nebulous for me, but I did find that what you're saying is true (if hard for me to believe) when I started pissing around with TOR networking.  Be nice to have a seamless exchange between the PMs and bitcoin- I'll still hold my shiny coins, but it makes sense to make the transition easy.  Has to flow both ways, too- no one is trading gold or silver for bitcoin unless they're pretty damn sure that they can buy PMs with bitcoins later.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:22 | 2220118 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

turning us into a nation of criminals... one QE at a time...

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:10 | 2220843 Floordawg
Floordawg's picture

No fuckin' joke. Had to deposit some cash for my last PM purchase. Fuckin' rats at the bank filled out a SAR on the spot.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:23 | 2220119 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture



The Black Market will survive

The Niggar Family

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:00 | 2220197 It is a bargin ...
It is a bargin my friend's picture

Funny as fuck

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:25 | 2220122 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

The milk story reminded me of a wonderful fruit place around Terra Ceia in FL.   Unpasteurized orange juice - our family agreed that it was a little slice of Heaven. 

Yet, the government feels it must control everything that we choose to enjoy in terms of food + drink.

If you ever get a chance - visit "The Citrus Place".  Buy some juice from these folks - who have to comply with a book of regulations to allow people to taste what real juice tastes like.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:24 | 2220563 trav7777
trav7777's picture

you know you can squeeze your own oranges and make juice, right?  The government can't do shit about this.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:38 | 2220579 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

watched some fatalist who was building a self-sufficient eco-system in his back garden. He had to check with the local Council how many chickens or goats he was 'permitted' on his own property

in Europe nearly all milk is UHT ..what's wrong with fresh un-zapped stuff?

who are the State to dictate anything when they're such a shambles 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:50 | 2220694 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

Actually, consumers have been able to buy "zapped" milk in Europe for 25 yrs.  Europeans see milk as a shelf product, not a refrigerated product.

Tastes the same--just not as cool...

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:42 | 2220791 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

"what's wrong with the fresh un-zapped stuff?"

is that it hasn't passed through their greased palms.

can't have people evading their dues now. . .

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 12:28 | 2221693 Marco
Marco's picture

UHT? Dunno about the rest of Europe,  but most milk here is pasteurized ... as for raw milk, you can buy it at the farm.

BTW, completely raw milk has nasty stuff like skin cells ... you can go a little too far with the back to basics thing, clarification is a good thing at the very least.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 03:52 | 2223378 natty light
natty light's picture

Almond milk, rice milk.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:35 | 2220140 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

this is the chink in the armor of the national sales tax.

the reason for the national sales tax is the realization that the imported workers don't pay income or payroll taxes.  after all, paying taxes would be an act of obeying law.

so the scheme to migrate to national sales tax is floated in order to ding the imported workers.

the imported workers come from environments where the black market is THE market.  there will be little to no revenue collected from the imported workers.  the imported workers will only strengthen and expand the black markets that are here.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:27 | 2220204 sethstorm
sethstorm's picture

Yet they are also the easiest targets to ensure the demise of one.

You'll get your revenue from them and then get the revenue from the people they interact with - especially if there is an effort to offer work to unemployed citizens in such capacity.

(Countries like Greece, which are operating without their own sovereignty, are where I would agree with such an article like this.)

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:28 | 2220571 trav7777
trav7777's picture

have idiots like you ever, you know, been to these places you think you know anything about?

There are entire giant cities out there south of the border with real cars and roads and street lights and modern shit.  Yes, they sell plasma TVs and computers and even have internet too!

The impressions idiotic americans have of places they've NEVER BEEN just amaze me, along with the sheer conceit of how bestest they think everything here is.  Everything we have here is available elsewhere.  People pay sales taxes and shop in malls just like we do.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:55 | 2220603 newengland
newengland's picture

Dear trav777,

I like your comments because you think things through. However, I must agree with the comment about the national sales tax; it is intended to capture the money of the massive influx of illegal immigrants whose purpose is to drive down American wages, and serve as useful slaves to the Federal Reserve Board government.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:40 | 2220787 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Have you ever been south of the border? Do you really think those merchants at those stands are charging sales taxes? Some people pay sales taxes, but a huge portion don't. It's the same in most of undeveloped areas.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 12:45 | 2221745 trav7777
trav7777's picture

you want fuckin pictures?

this stereotype you have of latin america is ridiculous.

STANDS?  you go to some tourist trap shithole in Tijuana and you think you know mexico or latin america?  LOL.

I'm sure the cities I've been to in brazil or colombia, you (and 99% of americans) don't even know exist.  Tell them you went to Salvador and they think you mean el salvador...just pathetic.  Even after explicitly telling them where in brazil that is...fkin retards.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:38 | 2220150 JohnKozac
JohnKozac's picture


Bankers fight for physical assets:

Wall Street, Fed face off over physical commodities(Reuters)

"NEW YORK (Reuters) - Wall Street's biggest banks are locked in an increasingly frantic struggle with the Federal Reserve over the right to retain the jewels of their commodity trading empires: warehouses, storage tanks and other hard assets worth billions of dollars."




Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:48 | 2220170 xela2200
xela2200's picture

I can't wait for those black markets to start. Capitaism and small business might have a chance afterall.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:58 | 2220191 CH1
CH1's picture

They alerady exist. Now it's time to expend them from unimportant things like selling pot into useful things like selling food.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:24 | 2220248 xela2200
xela2200's picture

When ebay started, I was selling tobacco seeds kits (instructions and several varieties) to grow in containers. Some people were growing plants in apartments and what not. There are some stores in my city that sell tobacco by the pound on a zip locked bag. Heavily taxed tobacco is a very tradable commodity. Just look at the issues New York state has with cigarettes been trafficked from other states. People forget that tobacco was used as a currency before. Farmers were even allowed to pay taxes with it.

Politicians see people as an endless source of taxation. They think that is just doing your part for society and sometimes you might even have to take one for the team. However, people need to eat and survive at a higher level than just survival existence. People in this country when confronted seem to find a way. Growing pot, moonshine, selling raw milk out of the back of truck, or what have you. The more regulations a government has, the more it dilutes its ability to police them and the merit of each law. Most of us probably break a few laws just by the time we are done driving to work.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:02 | 2220416 paulbain
paulbain's picture

xela2200 wrote:

Politicians see people as an endless source of taxation. They think that is just doing your part for society and sometimes you might even have to take one for the team. However, people need to eat and survive at a higher level than just survival existence. People in this country, when confronted, seem to find a way [to circumvent the politicians' obstacles to their survival]. Growing pot, moonshine, selling raw milk out of the back of truck, or what have you. The more regulations a government has, the more it dilutes its ability to police them and the merit of each law. [emphasis added.] Most of us probably break a few laws just by the time we are done driving to work.

Xela2200, this is one of the best comments that I have read here on ZH. Especially the sentence that I marked in a bold font.

Good job.

-- Paul D. Bain


Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:12 | 2220545 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

xela2200 said:

When ebay started, I was selling tobacco seeds kits (instructions and several varieties) to grow in containers.

I'm adding that crop to my garden this year. I'll be doing this to maintain a fresh supply of seeds, to learn how to cure it properly for smoking, and to experiment with homemade pest control (nicotine is a powerful insecticide). If the economy totally collapses and the supply of cigarettes dries up, the hordes of people having nicotine fits will be a market which demands servicing. (Having quit cigarettes cold turkey about 13 years ago, I know what it's like.)

The more regulations a government has, the more it dilutes its ability to police them and the merit of each law.

Along those same lines, general respect for the rule of law, as well as for those who enforce it, decreases as the number of unjust laws increases. This point is well understood by many who have worked in law enforcement, and explains the existence of organizations like LEAP (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition).


Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:04 | 2220832 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

in case you, and others interested,  haven't seen this:

great site for anyone getting started, or who wants to learn more. . .

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:25 | 2220871 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Thank you Cathartes Aura

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 16:41 | 2222359 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture




Sun, 03/04/2012 - 22:36 | 2223034 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

my pleasure, it's a great resource!

( I always hesitate when wanting to attribute the link to you americanspirit, as you appear quite modest with your "connection" - but in the future, I will, unless you ask otherwise!)

best wishes!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:58 | 2220610 Kipper und Wipp...
Kipper und Wipperzeit's picture

http:/(/ <-- "Roll Your Own" Cigarette Shops Sued by NYC in Tax Dispute

I was looking for a NYT piece from sometime last year about a lady (I think) who grew her own tobacco in the city and was getting hassled by the authorities but I couldn't find it, but this is an interesting piece too, on illegal cigarette sales: 2 for a dollar, 1 for 75 cents  (yes, SINGLE CIGS.)

and more

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:10 | 2220733 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Every country of Latin America that I have ever been to has a street vendor selling singles. There is usually a lighter hanging from a string. Maybe buy some gum too for afterwards. Ah, the good old days.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:06 | 2220834 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


Sun, 03/04/2012 - 03:40 | 2221261 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"There's no way to rule innocent men.  The only power any government has is to crack down on criminals.  Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them.  One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.  Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens?  What's there in that for anyone?  But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted--and you create a nation of law-breakers--and then you cash in on guilt.  Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with." -- Dr. Floyd Ferris, "Atlas Shrugged"

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 07:15 | 2221407 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Where I live it is a "Crime" not to put the lid on your Trash Can.  It is punishable by Jail or a $100. per day fine.  They attach the fine to your Tax Bill at 10% interest until paid.

Of course it is not limited to Trash Can lids.  A Car without tags in your yard or driveway.  Accumulation of debri in your yard, grass over 6".  Pealing or chipping paint inside or outside.  Many other regulations to numerous to mention.

They keep you in a constant state of looking over your shoulder and of course they encourage your neighbor to call them at the least suspicion you have broken any of these rules.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:08 | 2220434 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

I glad you agree-

If you would, please help out in your local area by offering pre-64 silver coin in exchange for food with your local farmers or grocery stores.  My personal target is to establish one mercury dime for a dozen (or 18-pack) eggs, a gallon of milk, or a pound of burger.  Other stuff can scale accordingly.

It's moderately slow going, but I think that establishing PM exchange rates will pay dividends later, especially considering that 50 mercs can still be had for about $125 right now.  Easy for most people to get a lot and go trading.

Long story short, if silver remains a commodity, and does not transistion into money again, somebody is eventually going to be left holding the bag when the greater fool principle takes hold.  If it returns to monetary use, we all prosper for it by being able to shortcircuit the presses at will.  Rejection of fiat currency is a logarithmic function, so every single person who does this is weilding a ten-fold multiple of power in terms of real change.  The last thing I want to see is people paying an ASE for a loaf of bread because the ground is sterile.

And yes, goldbugz- you can play too, but I hope you have big pantries and smokehouses to hold all that food. 

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 07:19 | 2221412 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

About the only silver I have is flatware, that I got as a Wedding gift in the 60's.  So, I guess I would have to trade a silver spoon or fork.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 10:14 | 2223705 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

One more member of the horde following the collapse...

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:54 | 2220184 Jason T
Jason T's picture

MAking my maple syrup today, stacking wood for next winter and clearing garen area for blueberry, raspberry and strawberry patch.  Going to grow a monster garden this summer.  

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:14 | 2220225 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

LMAO,  I can't believe people are dissing you on that. They must be NewYorkers who can only plant 1 tomato plant in flower pot and have no grass.

I also have a large garden. I need to get off my duff and get to making wine out of all my apples and peaches.  Hmmmmm.....maybe that will be the illegal currency I use I mentioned in my other post.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:27 | 2220261 xela2200
xela2200's picture

That makes 2 of us. What do you expect of a country full of drones?

Tradable goods. I am going with tobacco. No wait. Hydroponic organic tobacco.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 12:27 | 2221708 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture

So that is what those 30,000 drones are going to be for..

Finding 'illegal" gardens..


Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:48 | 2220508 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

only reason I can think he got junked was because according to the farmers almanac, today you're supposed to be planting peas, beans, & squash...

clearing & stacking wood comes next week...


Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:30 | 2220987 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Prolly tree-buggers hearing the screams of the maples.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:42 | 2220294 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

I have TONS of wild rasberry plants in my yard and woods.  When I first moved here I tried to kill them but they won and then I realized how wonderfull they are for the fruit.  They multiply so fast.

I also have a few Mulberry trees.  I absolutely love Mulberries.  Hard to get the Mulberries at the top of the tree.  I think I may try a net under the tree this year.

Really do want a wood stove because I have a lot of dead wood in my woods that I could burn and take a bite out of the energy bill.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:23 | 2220464 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

From another denizen of Southern Appalachi, thanks for that one, Hulk.  Kitchen Queen--a cookstove with a real firebox!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:11 | 2220845 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

"sold out until July" - nice!

best get preppin'

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 07:25 | 2221418 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

I remember my Mother In Law talking about how they used to get in front of the stove to change their clothes as I guess it was the only warm place in the house.  Of course then I think they used coal for their furnace, if they were lucky enough to have a coal furnace.  They had to shovel and bank the furnace for the night.  They had metal grates in the floors (boy did they get hot) from the basement to let the heat from the furnace radiate to the upper floors.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:51 | 2220512 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

always think "bees" as well...

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:35 | 2220577 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Jason T said:

MAking my maple syrup today, stacking wood for next winter and clearing garen area for blueberry, raspberry and strawberry patch.  Going to grow a monster garden this summer.

Good for you. Be aware that your raspberries will try to take over the world. Their roots spread out horizontally and new plants will start popping up several feet away. Mine began invading adjacent berry patches and it was a constant battle to keep them contained. Fortunately the invasive roots are shallow and can be corralled. Last year I used sheet aluminum from an old, leaky rowboat to make a barrier which surrounds the raspberry patch to a depth of about one foot, and now the raspberries are much more well behaved.


Sun, 03/04/2012 - 11:00 | 2221562 RSloane
RSloane's picture

Same here. Common fruits and vegetables are priced at the 'dear' level and I refuse to pay those prices. I also can my homegrown fruits and veggies so what I grow in the spring, summer, and fall lasts me throughout the winter.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:57 | 2220190 kito
kito's picture


Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:45 | 2220296 xela2200
xela2200's picture

I hate your avatar. You look like Correa.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 18:56 | 2220408 Esso
Esso's picture

Hey, don't pick on future President Kito!

He's gonna let us buy beer with our foodstamps and retroactively give every ZHer $100,000 in funnymunny FRNs per ZH post to buy gold/silver with.


Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:16 | 2220449 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Free Gold?

You got my vote Kito- but don't try settling in any of those stinkin' Bennybux.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:10 | 2220541 xela2200
xela2200's picture

and this is the problem with democracy.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:02 | 2220715 kito
kito's picture

Sorry, spelling error....should read WOLVERINES!!!!!.....

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:34 | 2220481 Green Leader
Green Leader's picture

Rafael Correa has the cojones to warn USA that chemtrails spraying planes in his country will be intercepted by fighter planes:


Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:59 | 2220706 kito
kito's picture

Correa is the only leader with balls to boot the IMF world bank out of his country. He closed the American military base in Ecuador. He has taken on the elite establishment in his country that has sucked all resources from the country's economy. The western media brainwashes you to believe he's a socialist because he doesn't take it in the ass from u.s. interests. Not true.........

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 08:07 | 2221443 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

Also had a commission examine old debts and declared some of them odious, so not paying the Banksters who lent it. Since then the Chinese are happy to lend billions for hydropower, a new oil refinery, and road infrastructure.

Pretty admirable from a guy who has a PhD in Economics from the University of Illinois.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:06 | 2220210 45north
45north's picture

Only when a considerable majority of a populace can be convinced of the inherent immoral nature of an illicit item can its trade finally be squelched. 

an item such as oxycotton

but great Robin Hood impression!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:08 | 2220214 digalert
digalert's picture

Silver eagles, stamped and distributed by the US Feral government, so they're not yet illegal. Crash JPM, buy silver.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:11 | 2220221 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

We'll probably need black market currency pretty fast thanks to technology we could do away with cash and go all digital.  I say black market currency because I doubt they'll let us all be walking around with silver and gold coins. I have no idea what's gonna happen but it aint gona be good.  It just feels like something is in the air and it equates to we're gona get shit on.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:16 | 2220231 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

So I guess that could be a barter system. However it will never work, esp in the beginning, because all us poor bastards who have sunk to the bottom will find that the masters--electric companies, mort companies, insurance etc just won't be happy with a wheelbarrow full of potatoes and sun wilted dead chicken. Nope, I predict mass destruction. LOL.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:41 | 2220291 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Don't worry. Other currencies will evolve. Some states are already thinking of minting silver. Salinas is pushing Mexico to mint silver currency. I would take a silver peso or two for work. Utah also. And sure you might have to convert some to electronic impulses to pay some bills. The point is that getting paid under the table or unreported barter (yes, barter is taxable 1099-B) might become more common. The government already knows this is coming. I noticed my 1120-s (Small corp tax return) already requires sales to be split into cash and Merchant card and third-party payments, so cash businesses of America get ready.


Here is Salinas site. It is in Spanish though. Sucks to be you. Ask the gardener to read it to you.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:21 | 2220864 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

+ 100 lols!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 18:39 | 2220375 AndTheRest
AndTheRest's picture

BitCoin?  You know, the P2P currency you can buy drugs and all kinds of other fucked up shit with?


Why don't you already own at least $1,000 worth of BitCoins?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:19 | 2220456 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Just remember- it isn't about what "they" "let" you do, it's about what "they" can prevent you from doing.

TSA might try to search the pockets of every man, woman and child in the US- but that doesn't mean they'll suceed. 

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 01:41 | 2221095 i-dog
i-dog's picture

It's about what you let them do.

There...fixed it for ya.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:18 | 2220236 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 The Huffington post Ilk has penetrated Z/H. Tyler we need to " answer for ourselves before we login. Simple questions.

   Like: Q; Stupid is?   

    A; Stupid does.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 20:48 | 2220594 newengland
newengland's picture


Perhaps take it as a compliment. The enemy advances to the front line. Hold true. Defeat them.

Use every word to advance your cause. Engage. Sun Tzu.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:29 | 2220642 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

You must have a beautiful spread up there. I'm envious in autumn.  The Art of War is getting Old My friend.

   I have to admit though. You're one smart SOB! I mean that in a good way!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:24 | 2220747 newengland
newengland's picture


Your people and my people will always be friends in the true meaning of that word. Government must serve us. We pay for them. 

This is an economic war in the world. Sun Tzu.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 11:02 | 2221584 RSloane
RSloane's picture


Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:30 | 2220256 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

I think people are starting to pull away in small ways.  When you think about it if someone uses wood that they chopped for heat, or makes heating bricks from shredded paper and wood chips, they are lowering the amount of taxes paid.  They eliminate the tax on their electric bill or the tax on their heating fuel.  The electric and heating oil companies then make less money and do not pay as much in tax.

Even if you just make your own food from scrach.  The cost of raw foods like potatoes, carrots, etc. are very reasonable.  By avoiding buying pre prepaired meals you save money.  By not buying pre prepaired meals the Corporations that make those meals make less money and do not pay taxes.

If say you make your own potato chips or candy you save taxes and this reduces the taxes to the Government and the companies that make those items.

If you make your own clothes, draperies, and other things you will pay a tax on the material but you will not pay a tax on the labor included in a completed garmet.

And Just maybe if one partner stayed home like in the old days and raised the children, made the clothes, cooked from scratch, canned food.  They could save a lot of money and pay less in taxes.  In the old days the Woman did not need a car, which saved money, no child care costs, all food was made from scrach and most families did just fine.  Although, we did not live in Mc Mansions then either.  We did not have cabel and used to play cards with each other at night. Sometimes I wonder what was better.  The way it was with a familily life or the way it is now.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 19:29 | 2220474 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Depending on where you are, this may or may not be true.  Where I live, I am surrounded by farms in all directions, and inflation hits staple items first as the farmers have to pay for diesel and other inputs on this year's crops.  Flour, milk and produce were the first to rise in price, where the boxed and canned goods took a little while to catch up as inventories ran down and contracts expired.  Meat took a little longer than other things, for reasons I can't quite explain- though now that that is hitting hard, I find myself pretty angry at it.  It's not that the price had to go up- that was inevitable- it is that 85% lean ground beef used to be the crap that no one would eat, and now 75-80% is the norm.  My local grocer wasn't even offering 92% lean the last time I went to the store, so I went out empty handed.  I'd rather buy bulk from the processor to get real food.

Keep an eye out for brands that were previously considered "premium," or at least better than average- for a while, Brownberry bread was a buck less than Wonder bread here.  Same was true of some liquors and organic meats and cheeses.  The players that kept their margins high in the good years are better able to smooth out the price increases over a longer time frame.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:29 | 2220875 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

the price of beef will be impacted by the Texas drought, which caused the slaughter of herds last year - new meat flooding the market, followed by less marketable meat. . . I realise this may not be a "local" thing for you, but the supermarkets will show those price increases.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 09:40 | 2221504 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Noy saying that you fall into this category, but people looking for 92% ground beef (if times get rough) will be idiots...

Fat is 9 calories per gram (where protein is 4 calories per gram)... In hard times, fat is your friend on hard working days around the farm...

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 02:44 | 2221191 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture


about it if someone uses wood that they chopped for heat, or makes heating bricks from shredded paper and wood chips,

Is there a site that shows you how to do this that you recommend? My business creates about a hundred pounds a week of shredded paper.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 08:06 | 2221437 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Tons of examples on youtube.  Here are some of the ones I like.  You can also use junk mail, cardboard to make the bricks.  They also have a pellet maker, I guess for a pellet stove.

Where to buy a 1 to 4 brick maker:

for a pellet stove:

Youtube has lots of other ideas like a leaf log maker etc.  All you need to do is go into the youtube wormhole and look.

I am sure there are also Commercial machines if you have that kind of paper waste.  You could sell the bricks or pellets instead of getting rid of all of that paper waste.  The bricks would also be great for barter.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 15:56 | 2222250 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

Thank you kindly!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:28 | 2220262 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Agree Yen. Inordinate thumbs down; socialist trolls on-site.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!