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Guest Post: Are There Any Disadvantages To A Second Passport?

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man

Are There Any Disadvantages To A Second Passport?

I can’t even begin to describe how happy I am to be back in the land of the free… and yes, I’m talking about Chile.

I arrived a few days ago to beautiful summertime weather (remember, the seasons are flipped down here in the southern hemisphere). As usual, the customs officials at the airport were speedy, courteous, and efficient. From plane to cab I was out of there in 20-minutes– with luggage. This is par for the course in Chile.

It’s so nice to be in a place where you’re treated like a human being and agents of the government don’t go around robbing, molesting, and pepper-spraying peaceful citizens.

This is one of the many, many reasons why we’ve selected Chile as the home for our resilient community, and I’m happy to be back in-country so that I can dedicate myself to furthering this effort over the next several months.

When you step back and think about it, it’s extraordinary that we’re even talking about such a thing. Just five years ago, anyone who talked about a global economic slowdown was laughed out of the room. Today we are facing an all-out collapse of the fiat system. How quickly things change.

One of the best books on the subject that I’ve read lately is John Mauldin’s appropriately titled Endgame; John is one of the most accomplished and knowledgable financial writers on the planet, and he clearly explains why the end of the global debt supercycle is a foregone conclusion.

(FYI, the book is an easy read and I highly recommend picking up a few copies to give as gifts to all of your friends who still don’t get it…)

Last weekend, John and I had the chance to share a bowl of chips and salsa in an uptown Dallas bar and trade views about which governments might collapse and which have a shot at survival.

It was simultaneously depressing and hilarious… and I was certainly glad to be heading off to our farm in Chile afterwards. More on that next week– first, a few questions:

Trisha asks, “Simon- you probably heard that the Anonymous group posted the pepper-spraying policeman’s personal contact information on their website. What do you think of that approach?”

Hey, you know what they tell criminals– if you do the crime, you do the time. In this case, if you spray a peaceful crowd with a ‘less-than-lethal’ lachrymatory agent at point blank range, you get publicly shamed.

Police generally go unpunished for such actions. Whenever a cop is caught on tape tormenting peaceful protestors, the politicians and administrative officials always say that they’ll conduct a ‘full investigation’.

And then nothing happens. Months go by and the incident is forgotten. This is the unwritten rule between police thugs and the state– you protect my interests, and I’ll let you get away with brutalizing citizens to your heart’s content.

Assault is assault. We go to jail. They go on paid administrative leave. It’s a broken system, and Anonymous simply circumvented it. Outing the guy online to billions of people isn’t exactly Hammurabi’s code, but it’s a good start.

Next, Doug asks, “Simon, what’s the downside to obtaining a second citizenship? Obviously there’s some cost and time involved, but what else should I be concerned about?”

The advantages of having a second passport are extraordinary– more freedom, more opportunity, more options; most of all, it’s a great insurance policy against sovereign calamity.

Most North Americans and Western Europeans are blind to these advantages. They don’t understand why they’d ever need another passport because they already live in the pinnacle of civilization… or so they think.

Russians, Chinese, Argentines… these sorts of folks have personally experienced the ramrod fist of government. And they’re not taking chances.

Slowly, the developed West will begin to understand that their home government is their greatest threat. Unfortunately most of the second passport opportunities will be closed by then.

To address ‘disadvantages’, there may be some depending on the country. For example, if you obtain US citizenship as your second passport, you’re signing up for taxation on your worldwide income. Congratulations.

If you obtain Israeli citizenship, you (and/or your kids) may be obligated to military service. If you obtain Dutch citizenship, you may have to renounce your other one.

Taxes, conscription, and dual nationality limitations are generally the three big categories to watch out for, though most issues can be sidestepped with some planning.

Last, Neil asks, “Hello Simon, since you travel everywhere, I thought you could help me with this question: where in Latin America has the most potential to support an upscale (U.S. quality) veterinary hospital / dog kennel? I’d like to start such a business abroad.”

Candidly, the best market right now for upscale pet care is in Asia, specifically mainland China and Taiwan. I was just recently in both Shanghai and Taipei, and the streets are lined with luxury stores selling high priced pet accessories, poodle perms, and gourmet doggy biscuits.

The level to which the Chinese and Taiwanese are spoiling their pets is mind-boggling… so there’s serious opportunity there.

If Latin America is where you’d like to end up, though, I’d focus on Panama, Brazil, and Chile. The pet culture is not as extreme in these countries, however the growing middle class and disposable income levels certainly warrant higher quality services.

 


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Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:13 | Link to Comment jellydonut
jellydonut's picture

How's their English? How necessary is it to know Spanish?

My only qualm with latin america presently.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:15 | Link to Comment wanklord
wanklord's picture

Americans are just a bunch of stupid animals easy to manipulate and subdue. The sooner the US economy collapses the better, so the ignorant populace will finally learn NOT to live beyond their means – and stop blaming the government, since they don’t give a crap about people’s grievances.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:40 | Link to Comment Broken_Trades
Broken_Trades's picture

This is such a crock of sh*t.

 

I was just in Chile, it is not 20 minutes, to get your bags and go through customs and be in a cab - Unless of course you flew in on a private jet, had your bags chauferred to you, and were the only person in the customs line.

 

It took 1:45 of waiting in line in Chile, plus you have to pay a fee if you are from certain countries - ie Canada.  Its 150$ to get a visa there.  That takes some time especially if there are 200 other goons in front of you.  Don't forget waiting for your bags like at any other airport.

Get off the plane in Santiago, wait in line to pay fee.  Go through customs get a stamp and receipt.  (good for multiple entry though).  Then you have to go into the normal line for everyone who has visas, and chile passports and wait in line there.  Once you are through you can collect your bags.  This was the longest part.  It was at least an hour *after I got my bags of standing in line before to go through the final customs check - Then I walked out into the terminal and then got harassed by 600 cab drivers.

Just sayin...

 

 

 

@ Jelldonut

How's their English? How necessary is it to know Spanish?

My only qualm with latin america presently.

You'll be fine.

 

 

RE:  Social Unrest.

 

All i saw was every single school draped with giant banners protesting against fees for education. All of the students are on strike and have been for some time.  This is only public universities though.  All the private schools are still going hard.  Theres some great forums for Expats in Chile.  They speak of constant marches and riots in downtown Santiago.  I am not convinced things are as peachy as Simon Black says they are.  Although for a country to visit, it has all the ammenities.  The food in Bella Vista and the Night life is pretty good.  The skiing up at Farrelones was pretty shite this year.  Down south from Santiago it's pretty slummy, although you can still find all the ammenities just at a much higher price.  Argentina seemed much more friendly and developed to me, although I was only in Bariloche.

 

Interesting read none the less.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:47 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

There are, indeed, advantages to living in other countries. 

Probably could get extra utility from a vet clinic, too. 

http://www.beijingmadeeasy.com/chinese-food/dog-meat

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:23 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

yeah, move to a poor country and open an upscale fucking PET CARE clinic?  Nobody has the money to waste on fucking pets in most of these places; they shoot them.  They're animals, not a fucking imitation kid because the adults have a child's mentality and couldn't take adequate care of a real human.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:32 | Link to Comment nickt1y
nickt1y's picture

Right on! This over the top pet indulgence is a symtom of our impending demise, the froth at the top of the bubble.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:47 | Link to Comment Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

Don't insult the Bichon Bitchez! Mrs. Madoff will get mad at youz!

http://www.zazzle.com/bichon_frise_chanukah_card_menorah_dreidel+gifts

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 23:12 | Link to Comment sqz
sqz's picture

Poor post. Not up to ZH's usual standards, even going into a weekend.

Maybe keep this stuff in "Zero Hedge Reads" or running posts at the top of the page, but not in main article flow.

(looking at some of the heated posts about the article below: I'm not American, so I really don't care one way or other about the subject, only its informative value)

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 23:26 | Link to Comment derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

and i thought i was ordering kung pao kitty

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 01:41 | Link to Comment monoloco
monoloco's picture

Simon's just pimping the Sovereign Society so we'll help bankroll his tavels.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 11:32 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Just felt like jumping in above ball-sack below. Surely a brave man (or woman?).

A totally weird sight. Interesting social sub-current data-mine in ZH avaatars.

ORI

second-trailer/

 

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 22:54 | Link to Comment LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

101 ways to wok your dog.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 23:25 | Link to Comment Milestones
Milestones's picture

Great play with a word!!    Milestones

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 23:17 | Link to Comment americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Upscale pet care in China? They have dogs on the menu in that absurd country. More like open a hot dog stand. With real dogs.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 09:02 | Link to Comment PiranhaEatingGo...
PiranhaEatingGoldfish's picture

@americanspirit

 

Stop talking out of your ass. I've lived in China for 3 years and the only places you see dog restaurants in large numbers are in the Korean minority areas of China, like Shandong province. I was in Shenyang, where a lot of Korean minorities live, and there are streets lined with dog restaurants. Elsewhere, not so much and I have been all over China.

And FYI, Simon has called it right on the money. People here are getting lots more money and they are spending it on the dogs like they are living in the 90210. Seriously, the growing class of affluence in China would shock most people. Now to be fair, a lot of that wealth is garnered through not so legal channels, but it is still there nonetheless.

These people are pampering the dogs like crazy. I see people walking the streets with dogs that have had dye jobs at salons that charge 500RMB. When you convert to US it might not sound so silly, but here 500RMB can do a lot. Like dinner buffet for 4 at a 5 star hotel restaurant. These people are driving Range Rovers and Porsche's the way Americans are driving Ford Escorts. They are everywhere.

Move to Shanghai, Hong Kong, Guangzhou, Beijing or Ordos and open a dog salon (don't call it a kennel because it just isn't posh enough) and you are gonna make bank quick fast in a hurry.

Is that a bit ridiculous? Sure. But honestly you just show your ignorance when call an ENTIRE COUNTRY absurd.

 

Get out and see the world. It would do you some good!

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 11:12 | Link to Comment ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

I visited China and HK last year for pleasure with one of my best friends who happens to be (well, her family back in CN) in the 1%. He owns some factories in Guangdong...

Now, fortunately having toured the rest of the country with a guide, and not just the upscale tourist areas one would normally visit like Shanghai and Beijing... i have to say, most of the Chinese population is NOT as you describe.

Im happy for the people and everything, the more middle class the better off right? But if you go out towards central and (God forbid, Eastern!) China, the scenery is completely different. I couldnt walk around the town (Urumqi comes to mind) without having old-timers point and stare while the local young people were slightly more subtle about their inquisitive ways. 
All in all, amazing trip and lovely people and culture - but dont for one second try and play off that China > WEstern World.  These people out in the East only have 'pets' as farm animals and anything short of explaining to them what a dog salon (saloon?) is would most probably get them to ridicule you while they sit squatted over a 10RMB pack of cigarettes.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 23:26 | Link to Comment I did it by Occident
I did it by Occident's picture

if the SHTF, won't most folks be eating their pets?  Not the best line of business to go into before the end of the world as we know it.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 04:39 | Link to Comment boattrash
boattrash's picture

Pot-Bellied Pigs make greatpets. Perfect size to roast in the ground for a family feast!

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 21:48 | Link to Comment slvrizgold
slvrizgold's picture

Trav, you've never owned a pair of Rottweilers.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:34 | Link to Comment el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

Of all the countries I have been in Latin America, Chile is the most like the USA.  If it weren't for the Spanish signs, walking along in uptown Santiago could be Denver.  The people in Argentina are much friendlier and human (outside of Buenos Aires where they tend to be arrogant), but have a tendency to be incredibly incompetent.  We once had a conversation on a sidewalk with about 7 concerned people about what to do with a homeless old golden retreiver on a cold winters night. (He wound up with a warm bed).   They feel your pain.  But I had to wait months to repair my Cannon camera until I was going to spend a few days in Santiago.  Guess there is no free lunch.  The import duties in Chile are much, much lower than AR.  The Chileans say that the Argentines are teenagers that never grew up and the Argentines say that the Chileans are soulless robots.

I was told that the average Chilean was in debt to his eyeballs, and despite being a conservative RC country, there is a lot of suicide by people swirling about the debt drain.  I was also told that the debts were passed on to the children upon death, but I don't know if this is true.  My ex-novia was a Chilena living in AR from one of the "families" which had fallen on hard times.

Simon Black has a particular life style and his travelogues have little use for low budget me.  OTOH, having a second passport is really useful but it usually takes years of planning.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 00:50 | Link to Comment Dirtt
Dirtt's picture

I dunno...if you are in an exodus mode why in the hell do you have so much baggage?  It doesn't sound like you are prepared or even willing to embark on what Simon writes about.

And you finish your post with a 'shoutout' to Argentina. Again.  COnfirmation that you are clearly not the person in the situation to embark on what Simon writes about.  Someone very close to me is eastern European living in the USA forever with strong ties in Argentina. VISIT Argentina. Otherwise STFO. Who can be trusted? Certainly not Argentina.

Read Conde Naste not Simon Black.  Thx for the intel though.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 01:23 | Link to Comment Popo
Popo's picture

Simon's articles (this one included) are beyond inane.

Where to open a high end pet shop?

Good lord. ZH needs higher standards.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 09:12 | Link to Comment ResFam
ResFam's picture

Have lived overseas in Panama for over 5 years.  I quit a lucrative partnership in the U.S., sold the house, sold the car, sold most of what we owned and moved down here with wife, a 4 year old and a 2 year old.  We just had our third -- who will have automatic dual citizenship.  We've opened a school for expat kids, my wife has a lucrative property rental business, and we just purchased an organic farm.  I still do consulting in the U.S. but do it from here with a great Skype connection and good Internet service.

A family health insurance policy here costs $250 per month (as opposed to the more than $800 I paid in the U.S.) Some things are cheaper, some are more expensive -- e.g. electricity.

While some of what Simon says may be "talking his book", I can tell you from personal experience that much of what he says is absolutely accurate. I breeze through the airport here... Customs is always friendly and I'm usually through baggage claim and immigration in no more than 10 minutes.  Contrast that with the U.S., where ICE treats me like a criminal almost every time I return, has accused me of being a drug dealer, questions me about my job, where I live, where I'm staying in the U.S. (my own country).

Are there things that are challenging here? Of course... Speed traps with police shaking you down for baksheesh. A "manana" culture that is way laid back and takes getting used to.  Government corruption (although the U.S. government is just as corrupt -- see the 60 Minutes segment on Boehner, Pelosi and many other members of Congress' insider trading escapades).  Infrastructure not as reliable -- we lose power on average once a week for an hour or so... Internet service sometimes out.

But here's the thing... Paradoxically, the country is WAY more free than the U.S. in many ways... Here you're free to be as stupid as you want to be because the size and scope of the state is just much, much smaller. This means that if you get in a serious car accident, you're basically screwed...It means if someone wrongs you, don't even think of litigation...

On the other hand, here folks take personal responsilbility for their actions -- novel concept huh?. You can do triple back flip gainers off the waterfalls all over the country and there's no Ranger Rick saying you can't. You can drive your car down miles of empty beaches, but if you get stuck in the sand, and the tide comes in you're screwed (I see it happen often). If you can identify an unserved niche, it's much easier to open a business because there simply aren't as many government mandarins to harass you and eat out your substance.

Is it dangerous? Far less so than the U.S which really, if we're being honest, only gives the illusion of safety/secruity (and by the way, constantly tries to scare the population about how dangerous the rest of the world is).

Bottom line - pace of life is much slower, much more focused on family, spending time with friends, being outdoors... Far less focus on "things" - no hyperconsumerism, Black Fridays, etc.  Best place in the world to raise kids. 

It's not all roses, but 5 years later, best decision our family ever made.

http://www.theresilientfamily.com

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 10:01 | Link to Comment end da fed
end da fed's picture

i just checked out your site and i'll be visiting more often- wow. i recently spent time in Puerto Viejo, CR and i think that's where i want to "get away from the rat-race". the only hold up is how to get my 2 dogs there for my 11 year old!

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 12:14 | Link to Comment ResFam
ResFam's picture

Brilliant!  There is no special secret to doing this.  You don't have to be particularly smart, rich, or talented.  I have no particular talents... I'm not particularly smart, and I've failed in numerous hare-brained ventures in my life. I'm about as average as they come.  if a knucklehead like me can do it anyone can. All you really need is the willpower to actually do it. There are expats down here from every station in life... Middle class families, recent college grads... I even have a friend from the inner-city of Chicago who set up a highly lucrative personal concierge business and has more business than he can handle.  I have another friend who's about as middle class as they come... auto mechanic from Florida... He and his wife set up an auto shop 5 minutes from a beach community and his lot is overflowing with customers 6 days a week.

I'd be lying if I said it's all a bed of roses... It's not.  There are real frustrations and setbacks. Not everyone likes it, and some return home. But on balance, the lives of the expats I know here are exponentially more fulfilling and rewarding.  I'm not selling Panama... It really doesn't matter if it's Panama, Chile, or some other country -- Simon is right about one thing... If you have any entrepreneurial bones in your body and want out of the rat race, the best opportunities in the world right now are outside the U.S. Just be sure to fully understand the good, bad and ugly before you make the move.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 15:40 | Link to Comment end da fed
end da fed's picture

yes, ive found that the hardest part of any enterprise is the first step in actually DOING it. while ive gotten past the "analysis of paralysis" before and taken the "sink or swim" approach, my family is another matter... i hope my other half learns how suffocated we are in Ohio soon because im tired of being a slave to work, regulations, pension system, health insurance, state education standards, commuting, etc. we both have several hobbies that bring in cashflow aside from jobs that i know we could make a go at and i want my son to have a real taste of freedom: we don't need big brother to take care of us!

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 16:03 | Link to Comment falun bong
falun bong's picture

I moved to Sydney Australia with the family after Bush was reappointed the second time...and i can echo exactly what ResFam says. It's better. But I think it takes one thing, first and foremost: imagination. You have to be able to imagine yourself doing this. Once you've figured that out, the rest is pretty easy. Next thing you need is sone courage. Just do it! Especially if you have kids, because preparing them to deal with the world is the best gift you can give them. They might learn a new language along the way. Or they might just learn how to adapt to any kind of new situation, which is equally valuable.

A year ago we bought land on an unspoiled South Pacific island called Vanuatu (three hour flight from Sydney), mangoes, coconuts, fish in the lagoons...paradise. Anyone who wants to see my blog, have a look:

http://rokjok7.wordpress.com/2010/10/23/s-s-house-vol-2/

Just do it! Your kids will thank you.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 10:23 | Link to Comment Broken_Trades
Broken_Trades's picture

You can do triple back flip gainers off the waterfalls all over the country and there's no Ranger Rick saying you can't.

 

I'm in.

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 00:27 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

You can do that in Mexico as well.  They don't care.  It's your body.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 19:42 | Link to Comment malek
malek's picture

Thank you for your thoughts and info!

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 12:51 | Link to Comment monkeyboy
monkeyboy's picture

I think Simon Sov. Man is in some sort of Chilean Fantasy Land

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:44 | Link to Comment Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture

 

 

I go to Mexico all the time - everyone speaks good enough English. Latino women are hot and easily had. All the bad guys are near the border towns.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 12:07 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

"All the bad guys are near the border towns."

 

Wrong, they are near the border towns, all along the east coast, in the norhtern deserts, in the gulf of california area, and in the central farming area as well.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 22:00 | Link to Comment Landrew
Landrew's picture

I spend three weeks every other months in Chile. I speak very little spanish and have no problems anywhere I go. Money taks in every country.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 00:14 | Link to Comment LeZinc
LeZinc's picture

How can you consider immigrating somewhere and not learn the language? It doesn't take long to learn any language and if you're immersed in it, it's even easier. But not speaking the language of the country you live in? You're in for a lot of (unecessary, easily avoidable) trouble.

FWIW, some country won't allow you to come and live there if you don't speak their official language, unless they're desperate to have you (i.e. you're in the top 6% and you immigrate as an investor or you have a very special, highly desirable profession).

And FWIW, for anybody seeking a second passport, it takes years to obtain. We have 3 passports from 3 countries in 3 different continents (America, Europe and Africa). The second passport took us 5 years to obtain and for the third one, it took 3 years. In both cases, we lived, worked and paid taxes in the countries we seeked citizenship from during the entire legal time required before requesting the passport. which you can't have if you don't have citizenship, sounds obvious but I'll go ahead and spell it out anyway.

I'm amazed to read this post and these comments about a second passport. It sounds like "eh, get a second passport, you never know" as if it were as simple as to apply to a credit card. A second passport is not a second credit card or something you just apply for and voila, they send it to you by mail without you ever stepping out of your home.

Before even thinking about the passport, you need apply for immigration in the country you decide you'll live in. That, alone, is very far from being a walk in the park. You need to fit in some criteria (they are different from a country to an other) and among them there might be age, education and/or skills, health, clean criminal record, number of dependants (kids) and their age and health and criminal record... And most of all, you need money. Nobody will welcome you in their country if they suspect you'll end up peddling their government or become a criminal because you're broke in the first place. As an exemple, we got our bank accounts checked during a 2 years prior obtaining a permanent visa to the last country we eventually got a passport from. They wanted to be sure the money we claimed we had (to fit the pre-requisite of net-worth they required for any new resident) wasn't just borrowed for the time the paper work was taking place and then we'd reimbuse it prior flying to the country we wanted to go to.

Then, most importantly, don't think other countries are just super eager to welcome an american just because he's american. There has to be some value to your going and living there, or they won't give you more than a tourist visa or stay. Either you are an investment-immigrant or you're a skilled immigrant. If you're not almost a millionaire or an actual millionaire, you must have a skill they need. Given the state of the education in the US and the drive young people in developping countries have re: their education, you'd better be shaped-up education wise if you do not fit in the "trust-fund" or "investor" type. We were contacted by the first country we emigrated to. We didn't just decide one day to collect passports. They were carefully watching Universities' graduation, cherry picking people based on their PhD subjects or Master's performances. That's how it began for us. We know people who came and were welcomed because they were bringing a minimum of 500K in their luggages, painstakingly saved, to invest in a new life.

There's an other way to flee one's country. It's called seeking a refugee status. But you won't get a passport, and that's a very different endeavour.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 09:42 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

I would love to have another passport or two, simply for backup reasons. But I've looked into it - it's a pain in the ass. It's not something you want to do unless you have a good reason for doing it.

I have a problem with that. Capital can move across borders without a problem, but people can't. I would think it should be equal.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 23:46 | Link to Comment Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

In a bitchy mood - how many born and bred american citiizenss can parse a sentence. Mostly none.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 02:16 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Sentences are soooo last century and soooo elitist. Americans communicate by shouting and waving guns.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 10:39 | Link to Comment Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

I thought it was communicate by shooting and wagging tongues.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 11:07 | Link to Comment Oquities
Oquities's picture

no, americans communicate thru farcebook, sexting, and tweetie.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 00:16 | Link to Comment RMolineaux
RMolineaux's picture

It is true that Chile currently enjoys relative prosperity.  I use the term relative by intention to contrast it with conditions in the same country in the late 70's.  At that time, Santiago was surrounded by shantytowns and prostitutes swarmed through the streets.  (Many were married women with children desperate for income)  Anyone wearing a uniform could arrest any citizen and anyone expressing opposition to the government ran the risk of being disappeared.  There was a curfew at 9 PM, so any social event became a sleep-over. The economy was controlled by a group of Chicago Boys, and members of the Opus Dei held key positions in the government.

I mention all this to suggest that such conditions can return to any developing world country where the economy accidentally or intentionally is disrupted.  Such disruption can be expected if the government attempts to change its course from participation in the US-centered "free trade" paradigm to one of protecting and enhancing the lives of its own citizens.  Witness Cuba, Libya, Iraq, Venezuela.

Chle has a large number of English speakers as well as lots of beautiful women.   But in the typical Chilean family the woman wears the pants, and the man becomes a contented drone.  The Chilean women have learned to run the show without losing their femenimity.  (Something US women have not yet learned.)

 

 

 

 

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 04:35 | Link to Comment Peter K
Peter K's picture

You write:

"The economy was controlled by a group of Chicago Boys, and members of the Opus Dei held key positions in the government."

Have you ever concidered that this is the reason that Chile is enjoying such popularity these days? Just sayin........

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 05:41 | Link to Comment JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

yikes....you related to "ted K?"(the one of ZH infamy...not the bridge thang!)

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 10:41 | Link to Comment Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

You sir, are an idiot. Read some history.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 09:29 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

You're going to wanna learn Spanish. But that's a good thing. Take a few night classes for starters

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 10:15 | Link to Comment e2thex
e2thex's picture

I'm confused.

When people are in flight what do they take?

Honey, did you pack the Gold?

Do I pack it separately? Do I pay an extra fee for their weight? The author has figured it all out, has he. Do you think he's ever been South of Newark?

Entienda?

Comprendez-vouz?

"In theory, theory and practice work. In practice they do not."

Yogi understood.

 

 

What happens?

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 14:37 | Link to Comment ninja247
ninja247's picture

Learn Spanish.

 

It's easier to learn than english.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:18 | Link to Comment HamyWanger
HamyWanger's picture

Simon Black is a traitor to the country. On a more general scale, every American living abroad, for whatsoever reason, should be identified, court-martialed and executed with the utmost care and intransigeance. 

In difficult times, where the Nation needs the work and dedication of everyone to go back on track, where the President needs any skilled hand for our Great Infrastructure Works, it is NOT acceptable to go hiding in some thrid-world country. 

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:26 | Link to Comment billybobtx
billybobtx's picture

Most "founding fathers" of the US and A were leaving a repressive regime.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:49 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

The youngsters are going to get to understand the founders perspective.

A lot of us do even now.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:55 | Link to Comment zhandax
zhandax's picture

Most "founding fathers" of the US and A were leaving a repressive regime.

Yes, but the ZH troll squad always shills for the Rothschilds.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:41 | Link to Comment i_call_you_my_base
i_call_you_my_base's picture

Jingoist nonsense.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 07:35 | Link to Comment spankfish
spankfish's picture

+1 for using jingoist

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 04:02 | Link to Comment zhandax
zhandax's picture

A couple of perfect examples...

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:42 | Link to Comment PhattyBuoy
PhattyBuoy's picture

<sarcasm off>

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:04 | Link to Comment Campagnolo
Campagnolo's picture

times change Wanger. People don't care any more about nationalism and the colors of the flags, people need and want a place where to find peace, prosperity and most important not a repressive government. Chile's turn was with Pinochet, today, a chilean cop can't touch a citizen. Unfortunately, most americans will have to live through fascism. 

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:10 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

 

 

I see a great business opportunity - recalibrating the sarcasm detectors of ZeroHedge readers/posters.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 22:42 | Link to Comment hidingfromhelis
hidingfromhelis's picture

No shit, the sarchasm is deep and wide.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:14 | Link to Comment eBuddha
eBuddha's picture

you're a fking idiot.

who gives a shit where people live - espeically americans who are unjustly taxed even when living abroad.  the only problem i have with this article is why 'dual' just give up your U.S. citizenship and move aboard - they made it a bit more reasonable (they used to tax you 10 years in advance to leave, now you just mark-to-market your holdings and pay the cap gains and say adios).

someday, the U.S. will realize there's nothing special about the 300 million people living here (yes, sadly, i'm still here but working on my exit).  we did well from about 1941 - 2007 because of some good luck and natural resources - but frankly, there's about 30MM people at best that would qualify as fitting the image we all have of ourselves as scrappy hard working creative smart individuals.  the rest of the place is a bunch of fat morons driving on crappy roads.

 

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 07:15 | Link to Comment blabam
blabam's picture

You did well till 2007? You mean you had the illusion of doing well till 2007.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 07:44 | Link to Comment spankfish
spankfish's picture

... an thus spoke Zarathustra

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:18 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Hamy, you have a long way to go before you even get close to Million Dollar Boner's act...but keep practicing...lol.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 22:05 | Link to Comment BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

LOL.

Good on ya Hamy.  Keep it up and you ARE 'son of Harry Wanker' - which is what you really hurt inside to be.

i have 2 passports - one gets me in 'fortress europe' - LOL.

it may come in handy when its depopulated by the coming civil wars and french chateau's are going cheap. 

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:25 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

delivery getting a wee bit too close to the prose style of MDB.  Don't blow a good thing, dude

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 00:37 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

Dear HandyWanker,

You might like to address your concerns to the US Corporatocracy who are moving most of the jobs offshore. And whilst you are at it, call on Congress to prevent US Corporations form doing so and, in the process, avoiding US taxes. And also for being unable to stop spending and creating an entitlement society and generally fucked up economy just like other socialist States. Can't imagine why anyone would want to seek opportunities elsewhere.

In the meantime, might I respectfully request that you stop being a fucktard and go back to wherever it is you troll normally.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:55 | Link to Comment Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

Hell I almost reponded - then saw Hamy - nice!

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 22:26 | Link to Comment GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

Yankee swine.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 22:31 | Link to Comment GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

Secession is a better option.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 22:59 | Link to Comment LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

Judge , jury and executioner?

Everyday this country feels more and more like the Soviet Union of which we were taught to despise.

Who made you gatekeeper?

It is past your bedtime retard.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 23:08 | Link to Comment JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

where the President needs any skilled hand for our Great Infrastructure Works...

I fear you've been led down the garden path Hamy, in your glorious patriotic vision...those [giant pyramid] structures you're imagining (built to the glory of the Phony Pharoah by the debt slaves of the formerly middling classes of course) are just the shimmering mirages of Ponzi schemes in the 'desert' of Amerikan crony-capitalism.

btw 'thrid world countries'> > ? who might they be...former colonies what dropped the castilian lisp?

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 00:49 | Link to Comment RMolineaux
RMolineaux's picture

Wanger  -  I guess I'm one of the people you want to have executed by the military without trial.  In '03 I watched my government lie us into a war of agression in which tens of thousands of innocents died.  In '05 I watched my government establish torture as a matter of offiial policy.  In '07 I decided to leave this rogue country and try my luck somewhere else for the sake of my own concience and to offer my children and grandchildren an alternative.   While living in exile, I hope to retain the positive values of my American upbringing.  If America ever relearns them, I might return.

 

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 01:00 | Link to Comment falun bong
falun bong's picture

What a fascist...learned well from Hitler and Mussolini's brown shirts. What do you think Exxon and GE and Microsoft are doing? They're "hiding in a Third World country". GEs tax return this year was 57,000 pages long, detailing all the places and ways they hide their money OUTSIDE the US.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 10:36 | Link to Comment e2thex
e2thex's picture

Hamy. You need a fuckin' hobby. Fishin' for hawgs is what I'd recommend.  You wanna use the Texas rig cause the boys here are gonna watch u on the circuit. If u wanna chase tarpon I'll introduce u to some mighty fine Stu Apte tapes.

Now there's a problem with exaCUTEing peepuls. If I move to Texas r u gonna exahcute me? That's a third-world country. An' whatabout Utah? Have u been there? That's a far run country? And the Bronx is a foreign country? And San Fran CiscoKid is a foreign country.

You got issues, but, u also got Gold... so life is good.

 

 

What happens?

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 10:46 | Link to Comment Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

You hooked a lot of fish with that one Hamy.

I gave you a +1. Well trolled, well trolled indeed.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 14:47 | Link to Comment Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

After considering your comments for a few milliseconds, I have decided you are a liberal fucktard. I get the distinct impression that you are somehow sucking off the the government teet and you see this threatened. I also get the feeling that you have little or nothing to protect and do not have the resources to make such a move yourself. This, in turn, also leads me to believe you have few actual accomplishments in your life other than drawing a breath.

Go fuck yourself.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 22:42 | Link to Comment Tipo anónimo
Tipo anónimo's picture

The test for entry to the fight club is too easy, apparently.  All of you tards that replied to this and a) did not grasp the sarcasm, and b) were unaware that Hamy was created to ridicule Harry Wanger are proof.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:16 | Link to Comment Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

Iceland-aquavit, pickled herring and blondes.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:23 | Link to Comment swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

+

NO Bailouts

Free Speech

Cheap Energy

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:25 | Link to Comment JungleJim
JungleJim's picture

Yuk ! You can't eat pickled herrings...

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 22:07 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Drunk would be better.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:55 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

Pickled blondes? That's new!!

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 07:15 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

The blondes in Iceland are smart enough that you have to get them drunk first.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 07:48 | Link to Comment spankfish
spankfish's picture

+ 1 for blondes

- 1 for for pickled herring

= 0.... oh wait blondes

+10

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:15 | Link to Comment DogSlime
DogSlime's picture

Quick!  Everybody emigrate!

Not an option for the majority.

I imagine it's what many of the elite will do before the ship sinks.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:41 | Link to Comment Ag Tex
Ag Tex's picture

Buy precious metals today.  In two to three years, put a joint venture together and just buy Chile.

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 09:57 | Link to Comment ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

Regarding Chili, it is part of emerging markets which will crash. Do you hate everyone on this site? Do not invest in Chili.

Copper is already down 11% this year, and it will crash further as the great depression 2 hits the entire world. Chili is an OECD country, and EUROPE and USA rule them. Too bad for Chili when nothing works out for them.

Chili is number 2 in the worst air pollution in the world (Santiago), the worst earthquakes, and the worst communications. It is totally pathetic with taxation that is even worse than the USA or Europe. Forget Chili.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 16:07 | Link to Comment falun bong
falun bong's picture

Sorry, wrong. Do your homework. Go through the rules and red tape. That's all it takes. I should know, I did, and I'm not the elite.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:34 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

hey mr. black, why is it that we never hear from you about the massive social unrest in chile that is underway? week after week, there are riots with chilean police and you seem oblivious to it? youre always spewing soft stool from the mouth about the unrest here in the states, maybe you could enlighten us about your shangri-la in chile? 

 

http://www.boston.com/news/world/latinamerica/articles/2011/11/24/chilean_students_clash_with_police_during_protest/

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:44 | Link to Comment ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Agreed, this is the worst (guest)post i've ever had the misfortune of skimming on ZH.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:57 | Link to Comment UgglyBetty
UgglyBetty's picture

Hi Kito, what the author says about Chile is right. I'm Argentinean and LOVE Chile for the same reasons.

(EDIT: perhaps I'm too accustomed to my totally disgraceful country that my evaluation criteria is not that good after all...)

Please don't confuse the riots in the rest of the world with those in Chile; here they are ANARCHISTS. The reasons why they riot is because they want FREE EDUCATION, gratis (???) You know what that means, I suppose. The same old communist story... some "plausible" reason to riot... the tool anarchists use to create this type of confusion... You wont believe that those rioting are real students, right??? Just my two cents.

Kind regards, Betty La Fea

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:24 | Link to Comment Campagnolo
Campagnolo's picture

Che Betty, this ignorant Americans will never understand what live under dictatorship means. Argentina and Chile already went to all that, people fought man to man against cops and even soldiers. The riot in Chile is a sign of Chilean people having control over the country and not the governmet like with Pinochet. In the States you can't even dispute a fucking traffic ticket!

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 00:52 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Argentina is still shit under Peronist kleptocrats Christina Kirschner-Rothschild.   She is as bad as America's muslim.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 14:14 | Link to Comment Campagnolo
Campagnolo's picture

Argentina is a punished country since they decide to pay nothing to the banking world cartel. However, after II world war, Europe owed money to Argentina and never pay Argentina the whole amount. It was a great country, rich country, no any more; same shit with America. People was born having everything therefore became brain super lazy and fat, what do you have as a result?, a country in decadence. 

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 07:04 | Link to Comment UgglyBetty
UgglyBetty's picture

Sure Campa, I'm no fan of any Govn that goes against personal rights and liberty, but this is not "the people", I still think they are organized anarchists... The education system has been in place for how long?? Years... How come noone has claimed this under the previous governments (center-left)??
I dont buy the MSM news, but I may be wrong.
Regards.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 08:00 | Link to Comment spankfish
spankfish's picture

Yes you can dispute a traffic ticket, you just don't win.  Just get the right lawyer.  The way it was explained to me ... two kinds of lawyers - a good lawyer knows the law, a great lawyer knows the judge.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 23:00 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

You can dispute a traffic ticket if you want.  Then you pay it.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 22:07 | Link to Comment Landrew
Landrew's picture

Sadly you haven't a clue as to what the students want in Chile.  What they don't want is taking education monies from public education and giving it to private schools!

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 07:12 | Link to Comment UgglyBetty
UgglyBetty's picture

I don't think that's the case, time will tell, but I still think these are destabilizing elements which may as well be rioting for some other cause, the objective is disorder, the cause is just an excuse.
The education system may not be perfect, of course, but maintaining riots for months on end is no spontaneous thing.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:46 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

So a thousand kids marching for a day to support increased funding for schools is just as bad tens of thousands occupying numerous cities throughout the country in protest of systemic corruption?

Were you born without a sense of scale?

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 06:17 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

I provided you one example tmos. Perhaps you should do a little research about the social unrest in chile before discussing senses of scale.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 07:16 | Link to Comment UgglyBetty
UgglyBetty's picture

Exactly. MSM is everywhere the same, you cannot trust them. The fact that someone here at ZH believes that it's been just a bunch of students, just one day, is alarming.
We may never know what exactly is going on there, but it certainly is no spontaneous thing.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:14 | Link to Comment Campagnolo
Campagnolo's picture

In Chile people can at least riot BIG TiME!, they did it with the almithy Pinochet back in the 70 and 80's, you had to got balls to do that back then...how many of you Americans can even complaint to a cop in the States?, you are arrested right on the spot and charge under terrorism law.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 04:22 | Link to Comment Peter K
Peter K's picture

Your posts about the Pinochet years reminds me of the old joke about Hollywood. It goes something like this:; The 3 biggest lies told in Hollywood are about the frequency of sex, the amount of drugs and the McCarthy years:)

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 22:17 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

One could easily replace all references to Chile with Oakland, and the story would still be frighteningly accurate.

 

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 10:07 | Link to Comment ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

SB says he was a graudate of WestPoint. Did he exploit the US taxpayer by getting a free education? This is up to you to decide. But now he is a turncoat, and some would say he is talks with forked tongue. No one is entitled to "free education" now that he has gotten his.

SB cannot tell you about Chili's real situation..... the worst pollution in the Hemisphere, unreliable communications, social unrest, corruption, etc.  However, He will sell you anything that he can profit from. He is "all knowing", didn't you know? He sells investment advise, second passports, land, wine, food, and  "jobs" in Chili. All you have to do is pay him for the required "salary" demanded of foreigners who say they have a job there, and for a cut, he will tell the Chiliean authorites that you have a "job". It's so perfect. It's all so SB can be the capitalist he has always wanted to be. He is no patriot, and tells the USA is not worth fighting for. Tell that to the greatest generation who won WW2. SB is only for himself, and stands for nothing but greed. He now embraces the bankster's way of life. Watch out for wolves in sheep's clothing.

 

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:18 | Link to Comment Illya Kuryakin
Illya Kuryakin's picture

What a useless fucking post this is...

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:40 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

Lol agree

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:17 | Link to Comment Campagnolo
Campagnolo's picture

if you are a fucking ignorant and never known another place other than your farm Idaho style life, so yes, you will never understand this article.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:53 | Link to Comment sAusAge stroker
sAusAge stroker's picture

a farm in Idaho might not be such a bad move, campy

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 04:12 | Link to Comment Illya Kuryakin
Illya Kuryakin's picture

Perhaps that would be true if that was in fact the case, but I am a US expat in Thailand and understand this post very well.

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 10:09 | Link to Comment ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

You are the one that needs educating. The Idaho style of life is just fine.Get a life outside of the USA. No one cares where you live.

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 10:08 | Link to Comment ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

1000% correct. Garbage from the mouth of garbage.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:23 | Link to Comment Paul Bogdanich
Paul Bogdanich's picture

"For example, if you obtain US citizenship as your second passport, you’re signing up for taxation on your worldwide income. Congratulations."

Conversely please explain to me the logic of those who maintain a second pasport for tax purposes, spend most of their time traveling and living other countries and are exempt from paying for the basic services that make these places nicer than the "haven" tat issued them their low tax passport?  Pasports should be established by nexus.  Where do you spend most of your time.  If you want to claim some island as domicile then live there more than 200 days a year.   

 

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:15 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Why do you, as an example of most others, have to come up with more freaking rules?!

A passport is just a piece of paper to identify you when you travel (and a claim on your fellow citizens' tax dollars to support you if you choose to get into trouble overseas).

A hundred years ago, back in the days of [relative] freedom, passports were essentially optional when travelling. They are now a way of identifying which tax farmer you belong to: your personal ear tag!!

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 00:36 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

Actually, it doesn't necessarily even involve having 2 Passports. The US is almost unique, even amongst developed countries, in requiring its non-resident citizens to continue to pay taxes in the US. Therefore, a move to a comfortable, clean and efficient location with low tax rates, there are many, and a change in Passports would suffice. It takes time of course but planning ahead usually does. In the meantime, it's now very difficult for US citizens to establish Bank accounts overseas, especially for anything involving investments. It's great to be American?

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 01:03 | Link to Comment falun bong
falun bong's picture

We have a winner!

Two countries that tax you even if you don't live there: the US and North Korea. Look it up.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 01:53 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

If I were North Korean (And unlike most, I have actually been there) I suspect that I would gladly pay those taxes to be anywhere other than North Korea!!

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 22:59 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

I doubt that a Swiss bank would want you to make out a NK equivalent to a W-9 to open an account and it's doubtful that they would turn you in to the NK authorities like they do with some Americans.

The NK problem is likely getting out with any wealth unless you're a top gov't official.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 01:38 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

 

"a move to a comfortable, clean and efficient location"

If/when I move next (I've lived and worked all around the planet and speak a number of languages), I'll be moving to a relatively undeveloped nation (the Philippines is one of my favourites; Vietnam another) ... where there will NOT be surveillance cameras on every lamppost, eftpos machines in every retail outlet and taxi (no cash allowed), and goon squads dressed like Darth Vader allegedly looking for trrrrrrsts everywhere!

Let the xenophobes stay where they are and queue up at the FEMA camps for their next free meal of gubmint cheese (not available to those without an implanted .gov chip). The rest of the world is actually very enjoyable, and much of it will survive the coming collapse of the western banking system ... many places won't even notice!

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 01:56 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

I'm in Bali, same thing. My earlier prose were modified to preempt the xenophobes vitriol in response along the lines of "Foresaking The US for some rat-infested hellhole with decrepit infrastructure" (Sounds more like NYC to me). They'll never understand.

Had I had the stamina to extrapolate, I should have suggested Singapore (Where Jim Rogers is very happy) or Hong Kong as "Safe" intermediates?

PS.I spent a lot of time in both Manila and Saigon when still a young single guy in Asia. Can't remember much. "Nuf said.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 02:17 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

 

"Can't remember much. "Nuf said."

LOL. With ya there, buddy!

I've lived and worked in both Singapore (another day would have been a month too long, with the oppressive political climate) and Hong Kong (free market paradise!), but am now looking for somewhere a little less crowded and hectic with lots of local fresh food markets and friendly natives.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 20:28 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

Completely agree.

Singapore? Just like China in my view. ( Only on political party: yes, freedom of the press: no, freedom of speech: no etc. I rest my case) and Singaporeans are fucking boring brainwashed assholes with no freedom of thought who have no mental flexibility. IMHO..As might be expected in China 2, aka "Disneyland with the death penalty"?

Hong Kong iwas, in a way, the New York of Asia, geat town and I loved being BASED there, and travelling out of there 75% of the time for 4 years, especially with rates of personal income tax at 17% AND no tax for every night spent out of Hong Kong, which in my case, meant a net rate of income tax of about 4%. But the pollution from Guangdong these days makes Hong Kong unliveable.

So, yeah, back to SE Asia. It's all changing, though. Even Bali now has a traffic problem. And proprty prices are above US levels (Which, obviously doesn't take much on average these days, but I'm talking Manhattan/Santa Monica prices) Less of a problem for me because we bought lots of land and property here long before the boom (aka investment) Glad, though, that I saw SE Asia then. It was very special. Even though, or perhaps especially becasue, I don't remember much!!

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 20:26 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

Duplicate Deleted

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 08:10 | Link to Comment spankfish
spankfish's picture

I love the Kraft gubermint soylent green cheese, goes great with three fingers of MD20/20

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 10:10 | Link to Comment ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

France counts it just the way you do mon cher.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:24 | Link to Comment papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

I'm going with the Russina model and the US will break up in the next few years and I'll have a new passport (Republic of Florida?)... Otherwise...I'm not bothering. The US is a rather wide open place. Use cash or barter and stay out of the system and no one cares. There are so many poor and near poor that it doesn't matter. haveing a second passport is spiffy...but the assumption is..if the whole thing falls apart...you can actually get out of the country you are in...and the country you are going to has miraculously not collapsed along with one of the largest economies on the planet. 

 

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 22:48 | Link to Comment Tipo anónimo
Tipo anónimo's picture

I live in S. America, and conditions being equal, I'm headed back to the US in a meltdown.  Why??  I don't stick out as being the foreigner.  I dislike being the target, constantly.  I grew up in those woods, and there are a whole lot of people there who I agree with culturally.

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 10:12 | Link to Comment ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

If you live in a foreign country, you will always be considered a foreigner.

Tipo anonimo has figured that out. Best to stick with your own language and culture. Life is too short for those of us over 10 years of age to change during a meltdown.

 

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:27 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Disadvantage:  cost of the crap remaining qualifying property in Nevis.

Snooze ya lose.

Nevermind, that is to change citizenship.  Still have 10 yr exposure to the Nazi IRS, even if you did.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:30 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

a few days ago on november 22,  i happened to be watching the sports channel on cable tv and they had a special on there , about the texas /ou game that was to be played the week of nov 22, 1963 and how the coaches thought about it and decided to go ahead and play the game even though the president of the united states had been assassinated.   the first thing i thought of........good grief...the nerve of these bastards even thinking about playing some stupid football game after this had happened. yep, americans then as they do now have misplaced priorities....marx was wrong about one thing. religion is not the opiate of the people. its stupid sports.........

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:20 | Link to Comment papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Please...the masses must have their games. This was developed by the Romans to keep the poor and near poor from realizing how shitty their life was and how bad the government had screwed them. THis will continue until the cable is cut off...then the couch potatoes will head for the streets...until then...nada.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:28 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

dude...without college sports (and now pros), people would have next to zero positive images of black people.  Therefore, college sports are critical.  It's the one venue where rich white people can cheer for others who they would never associate with in real life and will do everything in their power to stay the hell away from

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:43 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture
If things ever get to be so bad that people feel they need to leave the USA, I doubt a second passport, or lack thereof, will either aid or prevent them from doing so.  Historically, more than a few have emmigrated with a golden ticket.  Maybe something along the lines of this:  "Mr. Ship's Captain, here are the passports and fare for me and my family."
Fri, 11/25/2011 - 22:43 | Link to Comment buckethead
buckethead's picture

Welcome aboard...

Enjoy your journey, Sir.

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 10:14 | Link to Comment ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

Hedgless_horseman....I see you read and understood the facts of life as well as history.

Move to the top of the class. No need for paperwork. 

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:32 | Link to Comment DarkestPhoenix
DarkestPhoenix's picture

Bullshit.  I work outside the country and the US has foreign earned income credit of almost $100,000.

And Chile is a shithole.  Have fun bringin' malaria back! 

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:47 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

they still have slavery in chile...........

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:21 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

 

...and still slavery in America (in addition to debt slavery).

 

"According to court papers, Maksimenko and his business partners operated a human trafficking ring which exploited Eastern European women and used the guise of a legitimate business – Beauty Search, Inc. – to cover their criminal conduct.   Maksimenko and his partners smuggled women into the United States and compelled them through threats and coercion to work as dancers in strip clubs.  To force the women to keep working, Maksimenko and his partners took a number of steps, including confiscating the dancers’ passports; imposing large debts; isolating the dancers; threatening physical violence; searching the dancers’ apartments; and threatening to turn the dancers into authorities because of their illegal immigrant status."

 

http://www.polarisproject.org/human-trafficking/sex-trafficking-in-the-us/hostessstrip-clubs

Maybe if these women had had a second passport?
In similiar news, this is a kick-ass tune...
Fri, 11/25/2011 - 21:41 | Link to Comment SheepleLOVEched...
SheepleLOVEcheddarbaybiscuits's picture

oh yea? so does Amerika..........

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 07:32 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

As an Australian or UK citizen, and that applies to the citizens of most countries other than the US and, it seems, North Korea, once they have established "Non-residence", which takes about two years, there is NO tax obligation in the Home" country.

The rationale for this is that a non-resident is making no demands on social services in the home country, the provison of which is, in fact, the apparent reason for Governments collecting taxes? Which seems reasonable? The rationale of US and North Korea to continue to demand taxes from non-residents is that they both have no regard for the rights of their citizens and are both totally fucked up?

Isn't it great being an American/North Korean? Pepper spray anyone?

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 11:04 | Link to Comment Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

While I agree with this, one needs to consider that one has used the social services of the home country, education, health care, infrastructure etc in the past. If one moves away young (early twenties for example) then one has collected a great deal from the state and has not had the 'opportunity' to pay for those services.

I am aware of the unpopularity of this statement but, as we say, there is no, or should be no, free lunch.

At what point has a citizen paid for the social services they have used... I don't know, but it is something to consider.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 20:36 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

Remember that taxes are (Supposed to be) PAYGO But the US now borrows 40% of current expenditure so it's a far more likely an explanation that the US is, essentially, bankrupt and needs to grab every dollar it can from anyone to apy for foreign wars and entitlement programmes which non-residents have no claim against. Nor do non-residents consume any Government services or facilities, which again are recurring expenditures.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 16:16 | Link to Comment falun bong
falun bong's picture

Yeah and if you earn more than that you're completely screwed, you have to pay for the TSA and the billionaire bailouts and the Afghani war even though you don't live in the USA any more to enjoy those wonderful things.

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 10:15 | Link to Comment ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

Your description of Chili was a little to kind. My advise if you don't want to die from stupidity, malaria, and air pollution....stay the hell out of that shithole.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:36 | Link to Comment luna_man
luna_man's picture

 

The way I see it, when the masses, get after the corrupt "BANKERS"...

 

Passports will be as worthless as the dollar! 

Sun, 11/27/2011 - 10:17 | Link to Comment ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

Passports are so "rear view mirror". The future lies ahead in revolution

and the guillotine.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:36 | Link to Comment digalert
digalert's picture

everybody always talks about "the fence", you oughta be thinking they'll use "the fence" to keep you in

Ron Paul

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 01:32 | Link to Comment Snake
Fri, 11/25/2011 - 20:40 | Link to Comment binky
binky's picture

I'm packing my bags and moving to Chile.

After changing my name to Pinochet, learning pig latin, playing guitar with a fitted-diaper, and preparing to be tortured (until dead) by the next military dictatorship and it's death squads, I will send you all a one-way ticket to join me.

It's gonna be a riot.  

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 03:17 | Link to Comment Peter K
Peter K's picture

Why go to all the trouble of waiting for a military dictatorship and it's death squad in Chile? If your scenario plays out, the end result will be you resurfacing in Mexico:) Make that your destination of choice and save youself some unpleasantries:)))))

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