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Guest Post: Boomers - Are Going To Be A Real Drag

Tyler Durden's picture


From Lance Roberts of StreetTalk Advisors

Boomers - Are Going To Be A Real Drag

japan-experience-4-082311Recently the San Francisco Federal Reserve Board released a study on the aging "Baby Boom" population and the effects of the demographic pull on stock valuations as these "boomers" move en mass into retirement.  From the report: "The baby boom generation born between 1946 and 1964 has had a large impact on the U.S. economy and will continue to do so as baby boomers gradually phase from work into retirement over the next two decades. To finance retirement, they are likely to sell off acquired assets, especially risky equities. A looming concern is that this massive sell-off might depress equity values."   [The report isn't long and a good read.]

This is something that we have discussed previously, however, the report points out the obvious concern; "Many baby boomers have already diversified their asset portfolios in preparation for retirement. Still, it is disconcerting that the retirement of the baby boom generation, which has long been expected to place downward pressure on U.S. equity values, is beginning in earnest just as the stock market is recovering from the recent financial crisis, potentially slowing down the pace of that recovery."

There were several very interesting implications in the report such as:

  • US equity values (in terms of P/E ratios) have been closely tied to demographic trends over the last 50 years.
  • The baby boom generation has had a large impact on the U.S. economy as they saved and invested; now they will have the reverse effect as they become net liquidators of assets - particularly risk related assets (ie. stocks).
  • These demographic shifts may present headwinds for the stock markets recovery from the financial crisis
  • Due to these demands on assets "real stock prices" may not recover to their 2010 level until 2027.

The last point was the most startling. Most analysts and economists believe it to be a theoretical impossibility for the economy, and by default the markets, to remain stagnant.  However, the extent to which the aging of the U.S. population creates headwinds for both the economy and the stock market is something that you can see by taking a retrospective look at Japan.

The Fed report looked only at the middle-aged (40-49) and old aged (60-69) groups.  However, I think the issues are more encompassing than just two groups.  If we think about the current employment levels relative to the population as a whole we can began to understand this is a larger problem.  Assuming that the "baby boomer" generation will begin to liquidate assets as they move into retirement in order to fund living expenses; this is turn potentially leads to lower economic growth.  Therefore, if the economy is growing at lower rates then we have to further assume that we will maintain higher levels of unemployment.  These assumptions imply that not only will the two age groups identified by the Fed begin withdrawing assets; but that a much larger percentage of the entire population will be saving and investing less. 

The problem that these assumptions impose is that savings are required for productive future economic investment.  When Japan entered into their post crisis decline they had very high personal savings rates which initially sustained their economic system.  Unfortunately, the U.S. does not have the luxury of high savings rates as detailed by the following statistics in our recent post "Beware Of Long Term Investing"

"Let's consider the following facts in regards to the average American worker:

  • 56% of the average workers in America today have less than one years salary saved with less than $25,000.
  • 76% have less than $100,000; and
  • 90% have less than $250,000 saved.

If we assume that the average retired couple will need $40,000 (the average annual salary) in income to live through their "golden years," they will need roughly $1 million dollars generating 4% a year.  Therefore, 90% of American workers today have a problem.

However, what about those already retired?   Given the boom years of the 80's and 90's that group of baby boomers should be better off, right?  Not really.

  • 54% have less than $25,000
  • 71% have less than $100,000; and
  • 83% have less than $250,000."

Low personal savings rates do not leave individuals much wiggle room in an economy where incomes are under pressure due to a large unemployed labor pool.  The chart above shows the strong statistical evidence concerning the historical relationship between U.S. employment and equity markets.  The dotted lines represent the likely path of both employment to total population and the stock market into 2020 assuming the migration of "boomers" into retirement. 

The implications of declining employment to population due to the demographic shift potentially shake the foundations of conventional investing wisdom which assumes that markets always rise over time.  The potential impact of these demographic shifts in the U.S. parallel closely with the Japanese economy since their financial crisis took hold almost 30 years ago. 

japanese-experience-4-082311The Japanese Experience

In response to their own real estate/financial crisis, Japan implemented many of the same economic policies that are implemented in the U.S. currently.  The result of those policies, combined with an aging population, has plagued Japan with a slow growth economy and struggling financial markets. 

The Fed report points to this correlation between the financial markets and these demographic shifts. 

"Since an individual's financial needs and attitudes toward risk change over the life cycle, the aging of the baby boomers and the broader shift of age distribution in the population should have implications for capital markets (Abel 2001, 2003; Brooks 2002). Indeed, some studies attribute the sustained asset market booms in the 1980s and 1990s to the fact that baby boomers were entering their middle ages, the prime period for accumulating financial assets (Bakshi and Chen 1994)."

However, one of the key arguments against the U.S. being like Japan has been the strength of employment.  While the U.S. may not have as severe of an aging gap between generations; a quick comparison between employment to population ratios leaves little question. 

Since both countries face similar hurdles of overburdened social welfare programs, a weak economy and struggling financial markets; sustained levels of high unemployment drag on economic growth.  This in turn reduces assets that would potentially be invested back into the system.

We can look at Japanese stock market set against the S&P 500, advanced 10 years to align time frames, in order to see the impact of demographic trends on stock prices.   The long term trend of the Nikkei continues to be negative as Japan has followed its path of long term economic decline which has impacted employment levels relative to their total population.

japan-experience-5-082311Beginning In 1980, the U.S. has similarly been in a slow degradation of economic growth.  As debt levels have increased to sustain a higher standard of living; savings rates have fallen which has detracted from productive investment. 

Furthermore, the shift from a production and manufacturing base to a service based economy has further impeded growth by shifting invested dollars into areas with a lower economic "multiplier" effect.

We outlined this in greater detail in "The Breaking Point".

The impact of these shifts almost 30 years ago in the U.S. have just now started to be realized with the bursting of the financial/credit bubble in 2008.  With consumers now entrenched in a "balance sheet" recession, the process of deleveraging an entire economic system is a process that occurs over a decade or more.  This creates a vicious feedback loop as consumers re-task spending to pay down debt.  Reduced expenditures puts businesses in a defensive position which respond by reducing hiring and increasing cost cutting (ie. layoffs) measures to maintain profitability.  With higher unemployment comes a competitive available labor pool which lowers wages and salaries.  Lower wages decreases the ability for consumers to expend discretionary income which creates lower final demand on businesses.  This cycle, once entrenched, is extremely difficult to break.  This is the reason why the various stimulus programs have failed to create any lasting economic growth.

Many may scoff at the Fed's report that stock prices will not recover to their 2010 highs until 2027.  The migration of "baby boomers" into retirement, combined with sustained high unemployment, low savings rates and a weak economy, does not bode well for strong financial markets into the future.  While there are many hopes that the economy will recover in spite of the abundance of factors building against it; the reality is that we may be dealing with the "Japanese Experience".


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Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:11 | 1605202 curbyourrisk
curbyourrisk's picture

Go read the "FOURTH TURNING"  and you will COMPLETELY understand why this is true in more ways than what is talked about above....




Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:16 | 1605218 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

yeah we  certainly have a greedy generation bent on destroying our country as long as they get their medicare and social security checks, and a later generation too lazy to do anything about it.  The millenials will pick up the pieces.  Histroy will judge the boomers really harshly for destroying the country and pretending that enron style accounting os good enough for government purposes.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:28 | 1605271 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Boomers  = last recipient of economic ponzi scam benefits

Millenials = trying to build up a pyramid upside down


US follows Japan demographically and economically 15 years behind. In Japan you have college grads doing "internship" for 10 years and retirees working at McDonald's after 65.


Ready to work till you drop.


Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:34 | 1605288 JohnFrodo
JohnFrodo's picture


Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:23 | 1605495 Irish66
Irish66's picture

Great song

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:52 | 1605641 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

If the FED keeps supporting stocks like they have since 1987, then it won't matter what the boomers do.  Until then keep paying your FICA taxes or Lord knows what those crazy boomers might do!!!!!!

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:38 | 1605560 El Viejo
El Viejo's picture

My mother worked till she was 80 and would have continued, but the store where she was working went under.

Look: 70% of the national debt is held by Americans and American pension funds. Look on the bright side. As the boomers cash in their savings the national debt will go down but the price we pay will be a lackluster Japanese style economy.


Fri, 08/26/2011 - 18:40 | 1605984 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

That debt has to be rolled over as long as we are running a deficit

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 18:03 | 1605861 blingblingbert
blingblingbert's picture

Avoiding the rat race is the name of the game. Ladies and Gentlemen, be the deal maker not the deal maker's employee.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:32 | 1605282 narnia
narnia's picture

the people who are receiving social security & medicare benefits now at least contributed a small fraction of the value of the benefits to the system.  that's more than you can say for the first 18 years of recipients, who received supposed "insurance" benefits while paying nothing.

we are staring at the end game of an unsustainable and poorly administered "new deal" + uncontrolled militarism.  the biggest failure of the last generation was doing nothing to stop it, and punting it to the people who they have relied on to perpetuate it.

make no mistake, the next generation will walk away from the taxation required for these government promises.  it will happen voluntarily or involuntarily- the system will implode in an effort to print our way through it.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:42 | 1605310 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

And look at that, the stock market pushing right back up at the end of the day.  The wall of worry is just a speed bump for the jeniuses of Broad Street. 

And gold is going straight up as well.  Good for gold.  Fuck Wall Street. 

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:29 | 1605497 rocker
rocker's picture

The biggest problem is the Banksters who manipulated laws and ethics to pad their own Wallets.

(Think Goldman's Hank Paulson, Neel kashkari and Lloyd Blankfien). The elite banksters keep getting bailed out. The problem is generation XYZ can't afford to bail them out. The jobs are not their to do it.   


While the boomer gerneration will be a drag, it is so because they are done making things and Retiring.  While their jobs are gone because of greedy corportions who shipped them overseas to third world wages.  There are no jobs for the boomer's kids generation.

Hence, We are "Worse than Japan Now".

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:42 | 1605593 ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

"The Retirement Myth: What You Must Know Now to Prosper in the Coming Meltdown of Job Security, Pension Plans, Social Security, the Stock Market"

This book was printed in April 1995, the year of the formation of the WTO (World Trade Organization).

Author, Craig S. Karpel laid out the future clearly for anyone who could read English.

Why get angry? These decisions are only in the hands of the 1% who own 80% of the world. They don't care about you. You do not matter. Get over it and make your own plan. Stop crying.

Learn. Acquire knowledge, skills, money and contacts. 

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:53 | 1605646 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Few positives for US

  1. US can use military might to extract natural resources out of middle east (petrodollar advantage)
  2. US has more natural resources within her soverign property. Buffett bought railroad for America's coal not for Americans.
  3. US can sell off military assets and technology for last resort export. "Aerospace" is one of top US exports
  4. US has imported slaves from Mexico aka. illegal immigrants
  5. US allows gun ownership to keep elites in check. "street justice"


Sat, 08/27/2011 - 08:58 | 1607075 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

The Banksters ALWAYS knew this day was coming, that's why they set up the game and then grabbed all the chips off the table before the Boomers could.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:38 | 1605299 malek
malek's picture

And before the usual suspects come complaining about the Millenials not looking so great either nowadays: The Millenials will become the hero generation not because they wanted to, but because they are the ones who will HAVE TO sort things out and pick up the pieces. And they will grow into that role. You can already see the present and increasing disillusionment and discontent in that generation now.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:44 | 1605319 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

We really think the hip-hopping, pierced eyebrow millenials will pull back on the stick and save the day?  No fucking way.  They will just pick each other's bones after the plain has crashed.  Welcome to "Alive", this time it is not a movie but an economy.  They will make the Donner Party look civilized. 

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 17:18 | 1605731 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture


the dollars goes way down

jobs return to the new America, a nice stable 2.5 (slightly better than third) world country with a great history.

It will be a fine place to visit and enjoy the scenery, the wines of California and historical sights.

Those with money from other countries will enjoy the incredible prices and those with gold will buy nice chunks of it (also at incredible prices).

We are headed for a transition, probably hyperinflation so don't get twisted about the boomers getting theirs. I'm guessing no one gets much of anything....sorry...the real worth of things has already been spent...just paper left. just paper...

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 20:46 | 1606287 smore
smore's picture

That's the best case scenario!  1 chance in 100.  Not good odds.  You could be right, but prepare to lose.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 19:33 | 1606120 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

Yep. And that is a testament as to how self-absorbed the boomers truly are. They only care about themselves, not their children.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 20:50 | 1606294 smore
smore's picture

Yep Johnny, they shouldn't have bothered with the children. 

If they'd kept the money they spent on you and bought gold instead, they'd be laughing now.  Fools.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 19:01 | 1608327 TheAntiGov
TheAntiGov's picture

Blame the government not your parents/grandparents. They allowed corporations to outsource our jobs and ILLEGAL aliens to flood in, undercut wages, and take what jobs are left. MADE banks to give them home loans. There entitled to social security, welfare, housing, medical, food stamps and college. Now go get your fu*kin shine box you snivilin brat!!!!

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 12:48 | 1607478 malek
malek's picture

Which part of my "grow into it" did you not understand? And who did crash the plane? BTW the "make them feel guilty" approach will stop working on the Millenials at some point... you better prepare accordingly.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:03 | 1605409 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

You obviously don't know any young people today. They know nothing about hardship and sacrifice. Roughing it to them is going a day without their iphones and facebook. The country will collapse

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 17:58 | 1605846 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

You obviously dont know any young people today. I have neither an iphone or facebook, seems like the boomers are the ones fascinated with iphones and other "cool" but extremely outdated technology. If we seem lazy its because we're not about to pick up this debt burden your fat-bloated generation left us.

Signed, under 30 with more real assets (PM's) than most of you all while being forced to pay for your SS and Medicare BS, paying exponentially more in education costs, and working my ass off from work and from home. All your worthless generation does is push papers around and export jobs overseas, you produce nothing, servicing each other doesnt create real wealth, it only produces more debt. Please kindly fuck off.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 18:49 | 1606007 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

I'm 37 so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about "your generation". I know teens and college age kids today and they are a bunch of pussies. Tell me what the fuck you do for a living, dig ditches?

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 19:15 | 1606074 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

Lulz, I'm sure you learned plenty about hardship and sacrifice growing up in the 80's. Sorry everyone you know are "pussies" and what I do for a living is none of your business. Thanks for the junk though, hope it made you feel better.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 19:39 | 1606142 out on an island
out on an island's picture

Yeah dude, you might not be connected with today's youth, they're all pussies when it comes time to really work.  Lolcats, facebook, 5 second attention span and my god, the nonstop bitching and whining about how hard they have to work all the time - the ratio of dead weight pussy to productive worker has increased with each successive generation for a while now.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:28 | 1606366 soccerballtux
soccerballtux's picture

why do the old folk blame us? It's their own damn fault they raised us so poorly. Shoulda tried harder if they wanted someone to pave their retirement with gold.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 08:52 | 1607064 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

Because too many of us baby boomers are ex-hippy faggots.  Talking about my generation . . .  How we fucked up everything our parents sacrificed to give us through cultural marxism, egalitarianism, was on poverty, war on drugs, and most of all, wars on people who were no threat to us, while ignoring the massive invasion of third world parasites.  Billy Joel wrote our anthem, "My Life."  Fuck.  Just fucking, fuckity, FUCK!!!

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 19:51 | 1606175 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

I live in san fran; work in the mission; hipster-central; when i see a young tard; i wanna drop them and put my dick in their mouth cause nothing they do is original; just copying shit from the past; not even their music is good; lady ga ga? 

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 08:54 | 1607068 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

You are right about the music.  Damn, when was the last time you heard anything recent thqt was wroth listening to?

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:23 | 1606359 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

I grew up in the wards in Houston. Came over as a refugee from a war torn country. My clothes came from charities and I was working after school when I was 10 years old. By the time I was 15, I spent my summers unloading trucks and mowing lawns for lunch money. I know a little bit about hardship and sacrifice. What the fuck did you do, pussy?

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 22:00 | 1606427 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

my father is a drug addict, and use to beat the shit out of my mother; my first memory was me throwing a knife at him trying to get him off my mom; i missed, it stuck in the wall. i was 4. by the time i was 8, i was beating the chinks to the aluminum cans in garbage dumpsters; i made about $35 a month; which was stolen by my father on regular basis. my mother divorced my father at the age of 12, and i livewd with him; he was never my real father though; he adopted me; and use to beat the shit out of me. at the age of 17 he kicked me out and i lived on the streets. that was only the begining. the difference between my generation and yours. is, we were unwanted by the baby boomers, we were their mistakes; you, the millinal generation were their pride and joy. any way, that was a long time ago and i'm grateful for the experience cause i learned shit before most, and do better than most because of it. You learn a lot from addicts.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 22:26 | 1606472 DosZap
DosZap's picture

lemonobrien,@ 22:00,

Pls do not lump all Boomer's in one camp,many more DO care than do not.........I know.

I can relate to what you went through, and I am sorry for you,went through a similar situation as a kid myself,but not to the degree you have.

But it was not healthy, and it caused me a lot of lost time, and time forgiving, but never forgetting.

But sounds like your on the right track, and if your here, you will learn a lot. Life after we reach adulthood is what WE make it, not someone can choose to grow, or stay bitter, and be miserable for life,or choose life and live it as best you can.

No matter how bad we have had it, there are always someone else who had it far worse.

Helps to remember that, keeps one focused. Look forward, not backward.......................what's done is done, what you do from today forward is what counts.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 19:34 | 1606127 ThePiousPriest
ThePiousPriest's picture

Born in the late 80's hence, member of the Milennial Generation. Not all of us are raving about Snooki and how The Kardashisans are the embodiment of American Entertainment. It kinda seems like this is another variant of "Back in my day, we had to walk 15 miles just to do this". Generational Envy anyone? While I do agree that many in my generation are quite ignorant, there are a few of us that are pushing hard to wake our contemporaries up. I'm barely into my 20's and I am starting to purchase silver (just got 3 oz in today). I'm planning on taking a portion of my check I receive every two weeks to purchase silver along with whatever necessities that are necessary to endure the massive collapse. While my education is more general than specific (history), my career field focuses on IT.

Have faith, as the youth are flocking to Free Market candidates such as Ron Paul. It isn't because we "want to get high". It's because we are tired of the constant police state watching over us, defending the entrenched interests of the corporate banksters, and watching our friends die just so the politicians can look tough and act like they defended freedom while destroying it at home. When we start to realize that the awards and acolades given to our generation to make us feel special, when we realize that the great future they sold us on was a bag of lies to preserve the status quo based upon lies, we will make changes. I'm telling everyone I know about Zero Hedge, and while I may not know all the terminology used on this blog (I'm trying to learn as much as I can everyday), I know this is where I need to be when TPTB are revelead to have no clothes. 

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:28 | 1606345 smore
smore's picture

OK, PiousPriest, umm, funky name.  You get it.  Great. Spread the word.  But do you acknowledge the problems that your generation has in overcoming the deluge of toxic corporate garbage that you have grown up in? 

You could say that is the "fault" of older people, but that would be to equate "corporations"/"banksters" with older people, which would be even less accurate than equating "corporately-warped young people" with all young people.

No one in my generation (I'm 50) has the slightest envy of your generation, believe me.  Pity, yes.  Sorrow.  Regret.  But not envy. You are going to have a very hard time, and you don't realize it yet.  Best of luck. 

It's TEOTWAWKI.  It had to be some generation. It's yours.


Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:05 | 1606324 smore
smore's picture

It's common knowledge you are right, Sun Tsu.  What 20 somethings don't understand is that it is not some weird hostility to younger people that makes older people look at you in disgust.  We wish you WERE'NT so awful. Corporate advertising has warped your minds.  Delusions of debt based prosperity have left you in la-la land.  The New World Order has royally screwed you up.

This ISN'T the same old intergenerational conflict that has gone on throughout history, I'm sorry to say.  This IS something new - as new as the internet, or being brought up by a TV instead of parents.  You kids are NOT OK.  And you are going to be learning about your developmental deficiencies the hard way very soon.  You better start asking older people for HELP.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:43 | 1606393 ThePiousPriest
ThePiousPriest's picture

I do think something needs to be addressed in this generational discussion theme. I would hardly consider 20 somethings that read this website on a daily basis to be representative of the Status Quo of Milennials. I very seldomly have the TV on (the most action it receives is during Football season or Debate/Election nights) and any sort of Corporate advertising annoys me. Everytime I'm walking through the department stores with my girlfriend, I have to remind her that all these clothes and ads she sees are there to make her feel awful, so she feels compelled to sign up for that credit card to buy all these clothes she doesn't need (because she is beautiful anyways) and bring her into debt. Does she listen? Depends on the day. 

With that being said, while I do have Student Loan debt, I plan to amass no more until it's paid off. My ideal is to pay cash for all and never to spend more than what I bring in. Quite frankly, I get a bit annoyed when I'm referred to as "a kid". I may be young, but I am of the age of majority, I could be conscripted into military service and I try to contribute to society. While I'm not making excuses for some, we are the result of the boomers, who were so busy amassing "wealth" that sticking us infront of a TV was more important than teaching some lessons and spending time (I was fortunate to have parents who gave me experience, particularly with landscaping and work, if you don't believe so, try digging a hole in Red Dirt for a day with hardly any water to soften the ground with just a regular shovel.). So we are the creation of this society yet the blame is on us? I think the logic starts to sound like Keynesian "logic".

So much more is expected of kids nowdays, because they are expected to sacrifice themselves to the altar Baby Boom greatness.Don't believe me? Look at the education cirriculum in some states, particularly with Math Education( I will admit, actual school administration is a joke nowdays) and compare it to what you had. Yeah, I'm slightly scared for my contemporaries, but I know that I am ahead of them and will be willing to extend a hand of help and show them the right path. Oh and before anyone accuses me of being so intune with the pop culture of today as a hipster, my music playlist contains Bob Segar, CCR, Skynard, lots of various classic rock artist. I use a desktop computer I've built myself (not some trendy overpriced Apple computer) and you can find me trying to understand the Precious Metals markets while everyone else is watching the Jersey Shore. I understand and enjoy differing opinions amongst different age groups, but please, don't lump us all together. That's like me trying to lump all you guys in with Obama, Bernanke, and Geithner. 


Sat, 08/27/2011 - 02:10 | 1606826 Milestones
Milestones's picture

I'm not even sure why I am addressing your post--something in it strikes me. I grew up during the last of the depression--I'm 75+ now but I remember so much of growing up like you. You are basically feeling out where you are going. You will make a lot of mistakes; but you sound like you are headed in the right direction.

I agree with you and many others, the older folks did a piss poor job of helping out the younger generations. We deserve much blame The generation in charge now are very dangerous to our society. See, hear or speak no evil. 

I don't have any answers either, but I learned finally I was learning more going to and coming back from school then I did once I got there. I had 3 units to go for my Masters and dropped out and went to Naw Oleans French Qtr. That my man was an education.      Milestones

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 10:17 | 1607186 Are you kidding
Are you kidding's picture

It's're NOT "one of them".  You're more "one of us".  You'll do sound like independent survivor.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 17:27 | 1605759 ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

If you want more certainty, why not move to another country where opportunites are more certain? 

This website hates "socialism", but living in Sweden, Norway, Finland or even France is more civilized, too me, than living in the USA.

For example:

1. In France, most jobs provide a lifetime contract of employement. They cannot fire you "at will".  If your job in your department is no longer needed, they ask you were you would like to move to next.

This allows the population to be civil and pleasant towards each other. Few are predatory. They already have a lifetime contract of employment for 42 years.

2. Lunches are paid for by your employer and every day you are given vouchers to eat lunch. Lunch is from noon to 14h00.

3. Medical care is the best in the world, ranked #1 in France. It is affordable and medications are cheap.

If you have one of 30 different diseases, you do not pay anything, as it is considered too expensive for the average worker.

If you become sick on the street, help is just a call away. The firemen will come and take you to the nearest hospital for free.

4. Women are paid to become pregnant children are given allowances each month by the state, and more for school supplies at the beginning of each new semester. Wed's mothers and children are off. Mothers are paid for their off day on Wed's.

5. Education is nearly free, and you don't have to pay back any loans.

6. Their are no credit cards in France, only debt cards, hence no such thing as "credit card debt". Debt cards have PIN CODES, so you don't have to worry about your details being stolen like in the USA.

7. Retirement benefits are paid by France herself which still has a AAA rating.

8. If you loose your driver's license, or feel you are too handicapped to drive, they have special cars you can drive without a license.

9. If you don't want to own a car, you don't need one. Metro, bus, tramway, planes, and TGV make your life much easier.

10. If you have a low paying or high paying job and want to take a vacation, the cost will be determined by your salary. Vacations are encouraged and everyone goes someplace. Minimum vacation in France is 5 weeks, plus all holidays.

11. There is no GMO food allowed in France, so the food supply at the farmer's markets are fresh, organic and beautiful. Wine is also very good here.








Fri, 08/26/2011 - 17:44 | 1605806 rocker
rocker's picture

I find it funny how many who make fun of France and put them down are the very same people who go there on vocations. And for those elitist, (somtimes called job creators), own villas and flats overlooking the ocean.  These are the aristocrats that don't want stupid americans to know how good the majority of people in France have it. 

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 18:57 | 1606018 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

What makes you think the people who make fun of France are the same ones who go there for vacation? Did you take a poll of Americans who vacation in France?

I know millions of Europeons go to the US for vacation despite making fun of Americans. 

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 17:57 | 1605844 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I lived in France for 4 1/2 years..... Highest quality of life I have ever enjoyed. This is despite having made 4 times as much per annum here...

Any idea what it is like to hop into your car and be in the heart of Burgandy or the Alps in 2.5 hrs?

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 18:58 | 1606028 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Why didn't you stay there?

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 19:35 | 1606129 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Why don't you go off into the corner and fist yourself...

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 20:13 | 1606219 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Alinsky lives on.  Don't cha' know. - Ned

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 02:33 | 1606844 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Any idea it like to walk a couple of blocks and get all your fresh produce including most fruits and also very good local wine and drive to To Hell U Ride {Telluride) in about an hour?      Milestones

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 04:27 | 1609059 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Hate to disappoint you...

There is no such thing as good local wine within an hour of Telluride....


Everything else it cool though

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 18:42 | 1605987 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture


I'm moving to Bordeaux next month!

More things worth mentioning:

you can eat what Americans (or us brits) would call "local specialist organic produce" anywhere and at reasonable prices in markets (oh sorry, thats your last point I see)

the women are a gazzillian times more attractive and know how to act like proper women

Life feels artful, rmantic, full, meaningful

the population stands up for itself - any hint of "austerity" and they'll tear their local ogverners a new one

I know young people don't always enjoy all the benifits of proper contracts, but when all's said and done...France is what life is supposed to be like! Can't wait!

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 04:30 | 1609060 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Another thing to note... french women approach giving head as a pleasure, not some perceived duty...

Check out Soulac sur Mer (off season) and Beynac (anytime)

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 18:55 | 1606015 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Hey dumbfuck, nothing is free.

1. If they can't lay off unneeded workers, they will be less likely to hire them in the first place.

2. Those "free lunches" you get reduce your salary.

3. That "free" medical care you receive comes from your taxes. 

4. Paying women there to become pregant is due to the extremely low birthrate of white French females

5. See 3

6. It must be nice to have no crime in France

7. See 3

8. That's fucking stupid

9. You can do the same in the US as long as you live in a city with mass transit. I bet there is no mass transit in the little French villages and countryside. Those people need a car

10. Why does the government determine how much vacation you get?

11. There is plenty of GMO in the EU now. Your elected officials are bitches too. 

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 09:00 | 1607077 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

Socialism in Western European countries used to work just fine, until they decided they needed to import countless thousands of third-world parasites who would work and keep the Ponzi scheme going.  Trouble is, they are mostly low-IQ, shiftless moochers who are rioting when they don't get what they feel they are due.


RIP - The West

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 04:33 | 1609061 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yeah... nothing is free.

The grass is always greener on the other side... but once you have lived on both sides, it is easy to tell the difference....

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 20:21 | 1606237 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture


"... even France is more civilized, too me, ..."

Ya, en France, they don't like really make u doo English.  They are rather particular, especially the ruling class, on one's use of the language.  Why, they even have an institute on how  to "parle Francaise."

- Ned

{OT--I note that Francaise is of the feminime gender}

{{but u b more civilized there-->"allonz enfants de la Patrie..."}}

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:56 | 1606420 smore
smore's picture

Parisian, I can certainly understand why you think socialism in France is great.  But ask yourself, is it SUSTAINABLE?

Like Margaret Thatcher said "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

1. In France, most jobs provide a lifetime contract of employment. They cannot fire you "at will".

Ergo:  People in France will continue to be paid even if they sleep 9-5.    UNSUSTAINABLE

2. Lunches are paid for by your employer and every day you are given vouchers to eat lunch. Lunch is from noon to 14h00.

Have you heard of the expression "There is NO FREE LUNCH"?  It's something like the law of conservation of energy.  UNSUSTAINABLE

3. Medical care is the best in the world, ranked #1 in France. It is affordable and medications are cheap. 

Eh bien. It's nice that you rank yourselves #1.  A little predictable, but nice anyway.  Again, who is paying?  "There is NO FREE LUNCH"? If it's "cheap", then SOMEONE is making up the difference. UNSUSTAINABLE

I could go on, but since you're French, I'm sure you can see the logique.

Socialism is the temporary delusion that you can defy reality and arithmetic.  In France it is already over.  Welcome to the real world.





Sat, 08/27/2011 - 10:26 | 1607195 Are you kidding
Are you kidding's picture

You also don't have a lot of niggers and mexicans fucking everything up. didn't...until recently.  How's that "diversity" thing working out for you?  It fucked us up bad over here. 

Not that TPTB don't fuck with us too. 

It's just that in my opinion...minorities fuck up EVERYTHING.  A great time with all white people turns into a PC boardfest. 

Women too...they have their place...and it's not as "competition" in the workplace.  That's NOT the kind of relationships we're supposed to have between men and women.  I hate to say it, but the Muzzies are onto something keeping men and women separate.  Men provide, women take care of the family.  THAT is what fucked us up...we have no "family" any more.  Technology and cheap energy spawned greed.  We're all guilty.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 13:06 | 1607496 malek
malek's picture

It starts with the fact that in France if you don't speak french with a perfect pronounciation, they will ignore you completely. If you try to switch to english as an alternative, they will all act as if none of them speaks any english. At least that's how it was 15 years ago.

If you get past that barrier, the French life style sure has it's positives. Do those outweigh the negatives, everybody has to decide for himself...

But any belief in "lifetime security" in the job, guaranteed "retirement benefits", and so on is becoming more hilarious by the day. And that's true for all western countries.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:02 | 1605405 DosZap
DosZap's picture


You must be 12,OR  your an IDIOT.

You do not even have a CLUE how the programs got started,by whom, and when.

You blame Boomers for wanting THEIR own money back?.

What if I took ALL your savings and promised you you would get it back, later?,date certain.

And then, you DO not get it?. I re-nig , you have NO recourse, so whiz kid who's the frigging crook?.

YOU or ME?.

If you say YOU(AHHHHHH! Not the right answer as far as your concerned right?).

After all, you had no choice but to TRUST me.



Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:05 | 1605417 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Every previous generation has taken out more than they have put into social security and medicare. There will be no SS left after the boomers are done with it. It's a fact. I don't blame it all on them, but they are a part of it, as is every generation since 1933 or so

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:38 | 1605564 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

33 year old here.  I have put plenty into the system and have taken NOTHING from it on the Federal level.  Would like to opt out.  Do you have the paperwork handy?

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:56 | 1605659 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Actuary here.  Don't believe the hype.  The SSI system can keep paying full benefits for a generation and longer.  After that 75% of total, so nobody gets nothing.

SDI and medicare are another story.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:15 | 1606346 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Bullshit. You don't know what the GDP will be and you don't know how long the boomers will live. Are you one of the actuaries for the Illinois state pension?

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 20:15 | 1617141 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

We produce several scenarios that cover all realistic outcomes.  I am an expert and you, and most politicians, do not have a clue. Anyone can find the report from the SSA's actuary.  It largely contradicts the story coming out of Washington.  Remember, I am talking about SSI, not medicare.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:38 | 1606389 soccerballtux
soccerballtux's picture

SS has been raided under "unified accounting" and used to buy USTreasuries, whatever money is "there" in that fund has to come from taxes, going forward. In other words, when the outlays cross the revenues, there is no "padding" or "savings" to draw down on.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 20:11 | 1617131 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

SS was pay as you go until 1983, so until then the benefits were paid out of current FICA.  And by and large that is still true today.  So in any case most of the benefits can still be paid.  As for the "trust-fund" being "raided", that's your word.  The government is still on the hook for that money.  There will have to be less funding for "bridges to nowhere", etc.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 17:50 | 1605824 ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

Do you qualify for a visa anywhere? You never had to pay Social Security. 

Many ways to opt out. You just have to know how to do it legally.


Fri, 08/26/2011 - 20:23 | 1606242 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Dick, ha ha ha, u know that we all b screwed. - Ned

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:17 | 1606350 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

I'm 37 and would like to opt out. This country has fucked itself with promises it can't keep. The same with Europe. These projections are all based on infinite growth in population and GDP

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:50 | 1606413 owensdrillin
owensdrillin's picture

52 here. Have never collected anything from the government other than one grant when going to school for $1,800. Have paid heavily into the system for over 28 years once I got out of school. I do not expect to get anything from the federal government and do not have a pension plan. I have made my own plans and will make out fine without ever getting anything from anyone other than I hope the Canadian medical system keeps rolling along as I age.

A lot of the younger guys that have worked for me have been useless but there are some pretty decent guys also. They like to dick around with the i-phone all day but what is good is that a lot of job sites nowdays totally disallow any use of phones while working. I really like that as we run heavy equipment and it will keep their arms hooked on a little longer.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 22:02 | 1606436 IQ 101
IQ 101's picture

All the Opt out paperwok you need can be found here, just press Get started at the Top,

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 17:36 | 1605752 rocker
rocker's picture

Wrong. Social Security is there to those who paid in.  The rich elite asked the government to borrow it through tax cuts. The illusion that the aristocrats want everyone to believe is that America can not pay this bill. And they are out there selling it in the name of the Greedy Aristocrats who want to maintain this Oligarch for themselves alone.

Who the Fuck goes to War, gives tax cuts to the rich, (sometimes called Job Creators by Illusionist), adds benefits to Medicare and pays for nothing. The elitist tax cuts lost 6 million jobs. What the hell did they do with all those millions in lost tax cuts. So this alone proves the job creators will not create jobs if they get tax cuts. I agree with many that those who earn more than 250K need to pay higher taxes and those who make more than a million a year need to pay Much More. Those who earn or get more than 10 million need to pay even Much Higher Taxes than all others.

This is the real problem, the rich elite who are very well to be need to be taxed. After all, the bailouts paid for and was a direct bonus for the likes of Lloyd Blankfein's bonus. Without the bailout Lloyd would have not got his 100 million dollar bonus as many other banksters also got bonuses because of the bailouts. All on the backs of smaller wage earners. Wage earners who would be more than happy to pay taxes on a 1 million dollar lottery ticket. In just one year Lloyd got over 100 million in wages and bonuses. You might say he and other banksters who helped destroy our captial markets win over 100 1 million dollar lotteries every year. If you don't see a problem with this or think it is justified you explain why America will Fall and Fail. It is time for the small average American who is willing to produce to be rewarded. Those overpaid CEOs and Banksters need to step down off their high horse.  Jackson Hole, what a Joke. A party for the Aristocrats to figure out how to rape more wage earners. 

The people who will create jobs are those with money who see Demand for a product or service that is needed. The problem is there is No Demand for consumer product beyond what is already in the system. If you want to create jobs you need to give better wages or create jobs to those who really work to make things that somebody wants or needs. This country could start by rebuilding it's infrastructure and improving our ways to get energy. You might say a bridge is built with one brick at a time. Each brick needs to be made by someone and installed by another. Cut unemployment benefits after 3 months and use that money to start building our nation.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 17:29 | 1605766 ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

Get a life. Your "owners" wanted to change the system from "nation state" to globalization. You will have to deal with it as will the rest of us.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 19:32 | 1606118 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Glad you have gotten to enjoy this, get ready for a fall.Your so called Nirvana is in a world of shit.(I guess you do not know your countries debt problems huh?.)

And all your Socialist residents are going to pay the pipers.( See what the Utopian Socialist sytem is doing for the UK,they are dying the same death you are, just faster).

How about  that Muslim nation you have allowed in?,are the youth still burning shit down nightly, in less than 20yrs, ALL of Europe will be majority Muslim.

So I hope your older,and won't go thru whats headed your way.

I doubt you are,when it hits remember I told you so.

So, hop off that high horse Frenchie.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:21 | 1605478 Doyle Hargraves
Doyle Hargraves's picture

Dos Zap @ 15:02, though addressed to tct whom I rarely agree with I am gonna get in here anyways with my .02 because it illustrates how we as the future generations pretty much see things.

You do not even have a CLUE how the programs got started,by whom, and when.

Social Security was started by FDR and was optional at the time. SS was NEVER intended to be a primary means of retirement. It was meant to be a safety net for those who failed to plan or did not have a pension plan. This is why most pension plans are still exempt. If you failed to plan for your golden years and decided that SS was the way to go, well you deserve what you get. I have payed into SS for over 25 years now never expecting to see a dime of it and have made other arrangements to make sure I do not NEED it.

What if I took ALL your savings and promised you you would get it back, later?,date certain. And then, you DO not get it?. I re-nig , you have NO recourse, so whiz kid who's the frigging crook?

Your money has already been spent, now they (boomers) are spending mine. That pretty much puts me (future generations) out all of our money and makes boomers the person receiving stolen property. I hope boomers enjoy it while it lasts but the LAWS of math dictate that it won't...sorry facts and mathematic laws are pretty hard to suspend. I am sure when the ponzi dies boomers will be hard pressed to find future generations willing to put themselves back into it at their own expense to benefit boomers. 

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:44 | 1605601 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

It's all the fault of Modern Medicine!   We were all supposed to be dead or dying by the time we qualified for the cash.   Ooops!  Sorry.   We old farts are gonna last forever it seems and suck the system dry.   The Death Panels might have been a good idea.  Rather than being trashed by the mean old Republicans they should have embraced the idea.   Cat food -- it's what's for dinner.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 20:24 | 1606247 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"Cat food -- it's what's for dinner."

ya, but, wekk doonz and pigz can handle that and move on, don't cha' know.

- Ned

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:15 | 1605462 moregoldplease
moregoldplease's picture

As a boomer I laugh at your self pity

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:25 | 1605504 Yohimbo
Yohimbo's picture

do you also laugh at all the clusterfuck of problems boomers are responible for.

Look around, every problem is boomer induced.



Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:37 | 1605551 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

So we Boomers were OK as we paid the Soc Sec of our parents (and your grand parents) but now that we are getting ready to retire we are 'the problem'. 

For your information all of our contributions are still available (ask Tim Geitner) to pay us out. If they are not (yes we all know that they are most assuredly NOT) then blame those who spent the dough on all the crap that politicians do with money and not those who paid the money in. YES YES we know that this is going to cause a problem (it will in fact collapse the system before most of us will see ANYTHING!!!) but stop belly aching at the boomers who are in fact just others in a long line of victims of political stupidity and greed.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 19:28 | 1606103 Row Well Number 41
Row Well Number 41's picture

You mean the politicians the boomers spent 30 years electing?  The boomer generation allowed the politicians they elected to spend the money they supposedly put away for SS and such to be spent on wars, tax cuts and welfare systems that they voted for. 


Timmy doesn't have your money, the boomers allowed the politicians to spend it.  


Just some of the things I feel can be laid at the feet of the boomers:


·     NAFTA

·     WTO

·     Banking Deregulation and the loss of Glass Steagall

·     The entire idea that a permanent Gov Debt is a good thing, and should be encouraged.

·     The end of the entire idea of Anti-trust laws

·     The end of Usury laws.

I'm not saying that boomers are solely responsible for the worlds ills, but they do hold a much higher share of the blame than any other living generation.  That the boomers would tell the Generation who are going to have to contribute until the collapse to a third world economy to "stop belly aching" just shows how self centered the boomers are.



Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:33 | 1606375 IQ 101
IQ 101's picture

Boomers 1943 to 1964....Not!

I do not think a child born in 1964 should be thrown in the same boat as the acid addled adults that attended Woodstock in August 1969,

said child would be 6 years old.

1943 to 60 as defined by Strauss and Howe even seems a bit broad.

I'm not getting in that boat, it is heading for the rocks and we dont have the rudder YET.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 06:24 | 1606956 Creepy Lurker
Creepy Lurker's picture

Thank you, IQ101, that has also annoyed me for quite some time. I do not remember Howdy Doody, I was never in the Mickey Mouse Club, I did not go to Woodstock, as my bedtime at the time was 8:30. lol

I'm 48, and I am NOT a boomer. I have little in common with boomers, as most of them are socialists. Now having said all that, intergenerational conflict is unlikely to be a good solution to our problems. The truth is, that most people of all ages are part of the problem.

I'm trying to be part of the solution. I do so by withdrawing my support and complicit consent. I work, but don't buy. (except PM's) I don't participate in the heinous shitpile that passes for "culture." The more I withdraw, the more sustainable and self-reliant I become. It's still imperfect, but I'm getting better at it all the time.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:55 | 1606417 Louie the Dog
Louie the Dog's picture

Yeah, we boomers are gonna take you down asshole.  No more Starbucks frappuccinos, no more iPads, and ouch, no more of those really cool Hollister tee shirts for you sonny.  Just a whole lotta time in the backyard growing your own food and sending your ass-ugly wife out to turn tricks for beer money.  Why the fuck should I get medicare and SS after spending a lifetime of being forced to put into it.  Fuck you.  Oh wait, you are already fucked.  Us boomers will have sucked SS dry by the time you get anywhere near your 30th birthday.  Good luck asshole. And give my best to your mom and dad if you haven't already killed them and buried them in the basement next to all your gold and your bugout bag.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:43 | 1605315 I Told YOU So
I Told YOU So's picture

and to think that the book came out in 1998.....amazing.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:54 | 1605372 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Boomers just better study up on how to live like its 1850 again.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:10 | 1605436 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

And so had everyone else. Humans are procreating just like bugs in honey, and one day the honey will run out. Who ever thinks humans think, had better think again.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:16 | 1605468 moregoldplease
moregoldplease's picture

Do us a favor and choose your suicide option, you'll be happier and so will I

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 17:54 | 1605834 toady
toady's picture

You first.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 20:36 | 1606268 moregoldplease
moregoldplease's picture

Suicide is not an option for intelligent courageous people

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:11 | 1605446 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

People ate dog food in 1850?

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:29 | 1605523 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

Dog: it's what's for dinner.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 17:37 | 1605789 Strider52
Strider52's picture

I like "Little House on the Prarie" episodes. Kinda corny, but it's prolly where we're headed, except might still have iCrap.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 18:45 | 1605996 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

yeh and be in your 60's and 70's and completly unprepared for it...


Fri, 08/26/2011 - 18:12 | 1605892 Marley
Marley's picture

May be that the guillotine buckets will overflow before that, though.  Yikes!

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 22:38 | 1606484 nikku
nikku's picture

The Fourth Turning, while very insightful as far as generations and conflict are concerned does not address the huge trend this article, based on irrelevant historical averages misses. That trend has been identified by Martin Armstrong and is the evaporation of trust in the public (government) sector. Where will all of the money go that used to trust in govies? Into private companies--both bonds and equities. This is about a HUGE shift in perceived value and security. Who will investors trust more? Obama, Merkel, Sarkosy, Putin, Cameron... or a non-financial corporation with non-FASB-f'd clean balance sheet? And gold/silver miners? The new utilities. Public to private, fiat to real money trend bitchez!!!

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 22:44 | 1606493 nikku
nikku's picture

The Fourth Turning, while very insightful as far as generations and conflict are concerned does not address the huge trend this article, based on irrelevant historical averages misses. That trend has been identified by Martin Armstrong and is the evaporation of trust in the public (government) sector. Where will all of the money go that used to trust in govies? Into private companies--both bonds and equities. This is about a HUGE shift in perceived value and security. Who will investors trust more? Obama, Merkel, Sarkosy, Putin, Cameron... or a non-financial corporation with non-FASB-f'd clean balance sheet? And gold/silver miners? The new utilities. Public to private, fiat to real money trend bitchez!!!

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 08:42 | 1608158 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 The "Fourth Turning" is a pile of crap.

Instead of zeroing in on the real systemic problem of corporate  profit-driven capitalism and the elite few who head the major institutions, the author posits a lazy analysis based on birth dates which is as fact-based as astrology.

Instead of examining the faults in having secretive autocratic profit-driven organizations running amok, the author makes sweeping generalizations about whole categories of people irrespective of their sex, race, or actual political or economic status.

The arguments of the book are not even consistent. One could equally 'blame' the younger folks of each generation for being the 'oppressors' because they are overwhelmingly the soldiers, prison guards, and police who do the actual physical enforcement. Never mind how they are just the 'grunts' and "laborers' who have no more say in how the system is run than most of us.

Just ignore the .005% who control most of the wealth and are the key decision-makers. Ignore all the analyses of the power elite and corporate power since C.W.Mills. Instead, just blame it all on an alleged 'fate of generations', as declared by Strauss to be 'inevitable'.

The 'inevitable' recommendation then becomes inter-generational warfare. As though putting either Zionist or Goth teenagers in charge of Halliburton, BP, Congress and the Pentagon is a solution for the better. The point is that it is the beliefs and the organizational system that matter, not the age, sex, race, astrological sign or whatever.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:12 | 1605205 Misean
Misean's picture

In Japan the money (savings) had yet to be spent. In the USeless...well, it's LONG gone. Good luck getting ONLY a Japan like outcome.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:13 | 1605206 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture

 sell off equities and do what?  chase yield in the bond market, more likely the opposite

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:17 | 1605229 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

a recent stat said that thirty percent of the 65 plus crowd had 80 percent or more assets in stocks.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:21 | 1605241 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

You can't eat stocks and old people need to eat early.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:35 | 1605265 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture

listen dick head  (sorry Doc, had to say that:) they do eat early but they don't eat much a few crackers and clear broth and they're good to go maybe jello on special occasions

have a look at the menu at your local happy acres retirement home $3.50 a day whether they need it or not

and then there's always the use of feeding tubes to save money

 and if they complain the staff can always refer to various manuals such as this to aid in force feeding

Among the approximately 20 percent of Texas nursing home residents on whom restraints were used, the majority
(95.6 percent; 368 of 385) had been in restraints every day during the preceding week.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:52 | 1605321 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

HAHA.  I find it funny the way you addressed me, but also because those boomers keep electing a different side of the same coin over and over again.  They ignore the obvious results of the insanity repeating itself over and over again.  They are inviting their own meager end of life. Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama - realy?.  I was fooled with Bush, but then quickly realized the game.

The boomers are the ones that make it to the polls as a higher presentage of any other group.  The boomers watch their CNN, FOX, MSNBC, PBS for their news and act accordingly.  The boomers are literally inviting a life of reduced wages, taxes (property and income) that will outpace their New Deal benefits, and a guaranteed death bed as a Wal Mart greeter or making my sub at some lousy food outlet. 

These are the sames ones that still wear their Vietnam, Korea, and other useless war badges with such honor.  The warfare/welfare state that they invited and continued through their following of the MSM and their voting for their blue or red team is their own undoing.   

Nothing will change in this system without hyperinflation.  I just hope the end game draws near.  I can't stand the waiting game any longer.  

Note: There is a boomer shaking his head at me in the ad off to the left.  I think I pissed him off.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:52 | 1605365 Doyle Hargraves
Doyle Hargraves's picture

And their (boomers) ignorance in the above mentioned comment will prove to be their own demise, perhaps they should have stayed feral instead of getting domesticated. They went from never trust anyone over 30 or the gubmint to gimme my ss check and medicare. I hope for the endgame as well, sooner the better.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:16 | 1605465 AmCockerSpaniel
AmCockerSpaniel's picture

OK; I'm one of those you speak. But there is something like being ask to vote for bad or worse. The fact is the only one iI ever voted "for" was Goldwater. All the rest were just trying to get the one who would not stick it to me the most. There needs to be a way to vote for none of the above.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:25 | 1605505 Doyle Hargraves
Doyle Hargraves's picture

Perhaps in 2012 we will see how it is done. I am seriously thinking things will get so bad by election time maybe the sheeple will wake up and realize how both parties have been fucking them so hard that they will say hell no to both...Yeah right, anyways celebrity apprentice/dancing with the stars/american idol is on. Guess I better just STFU and go eat my extra big ass fries and drink my brawndo /sarc

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:41 | 1605584 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

You sir (or madam) are a rare breed indeed.  Thank you for your efforts.  Too bad you were outnumbered. Long live mob rule.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 19:04 | 1606040 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Doyle Hargraves @ 15:52,

"gimme my SS check and Medicare,"

 You can type, but evidently you cannot tell a freebie(gimme) from A PAID FOR Benefit.

When you can understand the difference, you may get a clue.

What exactly do you propose?, WE give them a life's taxes and expect nothing back?.( that was not the deal)

They made the deal prior to our births.We had to follow the law, or cheat, or steal,and not work, to do differently.

How can some of you blame MILLIONS for just doing what you are doing, being born, and living a peaceful life, paying whatever you are MADE to pay,raising a family, and get on with it.

If someone STOLE a quarter million from you would you want it back?.Hell yes you would(if we were not talking Gub here) you would kill the SOB that took it, if you caught them, correct?.

Well, that's exactly the way WE be blamed,and damned, castigated, and treated verbally like shit is not even believable,BECAUSE of  the screwed decisions of a FEW liberal pukes from the FDR / Wilson / LBJ era(we had no power/say/vote/ to control?), is retarded.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:18 | 1605472 moregoldplease
moregoldplease's picture

So what is it? Are the Jews responsible for all the world's problems or the "Boomer" generation. Cheez you guys can't think your way out of Wal Mart

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:42 | 1605592 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

The problems are related to the politcal/wall street class and those who supported it. 

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 18:12 | 1605893 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Dr. Dick Head @ 15:52,

There was a lot of semen wasted on eggs for a few on this site.

To think what some of us brought forth is appalling.

The SOB's have us doing exactly what they hoped, eating each other.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:10 | 1606332 knukles
knukles's picture

Yowza, massah...
The end result of the Hegelian dialect.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:47 | 1605337 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

How about gas, electricity, water, medical bills, clothing, rent/mortgage, travel etc? You act like every person over 65 is laying on a gurney. 

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:51 | 1605347 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Oh shit - New Deal inflation adjustments won't keep up with that.  We should go attack Greneda again.  Might be a good Krugman stimulous plan to help them in their life needs.  Possibly even a war we might be able to win, as I believe that was the one we actually won.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:41 | 1605306 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

The Boomers can eat their cat food whenever they feel like it.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:46 | 1605330 nodhannum
nodhannum's picture

Cat food! Too dam expensive.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:49 | 1605343 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Cat food still costs money. When the boomers start receiving distributions from their pensions, IRAs, 401Ks, stocks will be sold en masse. 

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 17:10 | 1605710 andybev01
andybev01's picture

There are plenty of cats roaming free.

Traps for all!

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:13 | 1605208 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

"The Federal Reserve has run out of options in the Whac-A-Mole system of bailouts because you can’t print your way into prosperity or somehow magically increase home prices by snapping your fingers.  The big banks have done well and have survived this deep financial impact by simply stealing from the taxpayers.  A simple yet effective strategy. "

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:16 | 1606348 knukles
knukles's picture


The Banks Have Not Stolen.
The Riches of the Land Have Been Handed to Them By the Politicians.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:14 | 1605212 Misean
Misean's picture

"This is the reason why the various stimulus programs have failed to create any lasting economic growth."

You mean outside of the fact that they NEVER have and NEVER will? So, basically, despite the fact that governments robbing the citizens and pissing the money down a rat hole doesn't EVER create economic growth, this time there are additional reasons it failed?

Whatever...I'm sick of this kind of sloppy ass thinking and writing.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:59 | 1605391 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: You mean outside of the fact that they NEVER have and NEVER will?


Nonsence.    We had 60+ years of socialist central-planning prosperity with Big-MIC.   Throw in Big-Ag, Big-Road, Big-Water, Big-Airport and it shows how well centrally-planned socialist scams work.   The only problem is when the peasants want too big of a cut.   I love my socialist scam.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:15 | 1605214 JohnFrodo
JohnFrodo's picture

Its also highly likely the boomer will spend every cent before they die, so go long on expensive trivialities, like Porsche.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:19 | 1605235 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

yeah it used to be that one generation tried to be good stewards of assets so as to benefit the next generation.  Not so with the boomers.  They have their reverse mortgages on their houses and don't care that they impoverish the millenials with debt.


The boomers will go down in history as an incredibly selfish, disgusting generation.  Millienials will have no fondness for old people who ate up all the seed corn.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:53 | 1605348 Bob
Bob's picture

It's an interesting meme.  I have no doubt that if a generation that was spawned with you does the writing, "history" will indeed not be kind. 

My advice to y'all is follow the money, you ignorant fucking idiots!

Or play generational warfare for an especially gratifying masturbatory session that leaves you feeling incomparably fresh and clean. 

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:46 | 1605606 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Generational warfare is easy pickings no question about it.  The money flows into the coffers of the Capital Wall Street Hill, but why didn't the boomer generation question any of this shit?  Reagan was their hero - "raised taxes six times (including the then-two biggest tax increases in American history), massively increased welfare and warfare spending, ran huge deficits, stepped up the police state, ended financial privacy as part of his drug war, made Greenspan Fed chairman, undid the healthy "Vietnam syndrome" with his great victory over tiny, unresisting Grenada, and much, much more."  - Lew Rockwell

Someone needs to step up and right now it is the younger generation.  Too bad the boomers refuse to give any credence to Ron Paul.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 17:12 | 1605715 Bob
Bob's picture

If Paul ran with Nader, he would win in a landslide.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 18:19 | 1605914 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

And Reagan ran like a scared rabbit: 

1983 Beirut barracks bombing
Fri, 08/26/2011 - 19:17 | 1606082 DosZap
DosZap's picture

RockyRacoon,@ 18:19,

Bro,best watch talking like that,HERE, you will be a war mongering murdering brown people nazi SOB..................

And, in '83, I wondered why he didn't turn the place to a glass palace.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 20:33 | 1606263 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Dos, RR been there, I lost 4 broz in the fucking building after Smiling Paul said the  place was OK by him.

Lost the Rule "If you need a Marine here, then he shall be armed.  If you need a Marine here without an arm, you don't need a Marine."

Smilin' Paul lost his chance to be Chairman.

Stinkhole isn't worth a 155, let alone a tac.

- Ned

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 21:04 | 1606322 DosZap
DosZap's picture


My condolences Brother.....some can understand, others refuse.

You just had to live it.

At the time I thought a tac was perfectly called for.A 155 wasn't close to good nuff.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:11 | 1605445 Kinskian
Kinskian's picture

Given the choice between a lower standard of living and selling out their children, Millennials will sell out their children too.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 17:09 | 1605708 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Millennials won't have the choice...  it's dick sandwich or dick sandwich...  the adults of the depression would risk throwing out their 90 year old backs to pick up a dirty ass penny from a parking lot...  even by the time it couldn't buy a thing...  we won't be much different...  now, our progeny...  whoa nelly...  they might be far enough removed from the pains to push their lessons away and ignore us...  and on it goes.  Presuming of course we actually get some semblance of a boom instead of just continued deterioration for the foreseeable future...

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:19 | 1605483 moregoldplease
moregoldplease's picture

Better stock up on Kleenex your tears are dripping all over my gold.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:20 | 1605236 Waffen
Waffen's picture

That is their nature.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:22 | 1605244 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

I am a boomer. I agree with you. My generation is deplorable and if I ever get the chance I am gonna kick some old fart's ass. I just can't figure out which one.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:23 | 1605249 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture go long on expensive trivialities, like Porsche.

I was thinking more like ass reductions, breast enlargements, Viagra, Geritol, Depends and early bird special buffets!  But I guess we live in different economic brackets?!

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:29 | 1605264 Bob
Bob's picture

I expect senior discounts on bus passes to be eliminated . . . of course, the bus systems will be either long gone or fully "privatized" (with government guarantees) by then.  We all gotta pull our own weight. 

Too bad about the arthritis, Grandma, but if you didn't have it you'd be able to walk where you need to go!  You shoulda planned for this, you worthless bitch. 


Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:15 | 1605215 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Shake Shake Shake Senora - Harry Belefonte


enjoy the music while reading!


Wall Street Aristocracy Got $1.2 Trillion in Fed’s Secret Loans




SEC Covering Up Wall Street Crimes?


Fri, 08/26/2011 - 17:19 | 1605739 andybev01
andybev01's picture

Dude, I'm listening to that very song, right, now!

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:16 | 1605219 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

just as the stock market is recovering from the recent financial crisis, potentially slowing down the pace of that recovery.

I was willing to read your article, until I got to this point.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:15 | 1605220 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Not to worry, we have a greatly expanding immigrant population to pick up the slack.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:54 | 1605371 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Too bad we don't have the sense, the balls and the willingness to be politically incorrect to just make them legal and force them into the system, getting at least minimum wage and paying in taxes.  For one, that would make a lot of them want to go back where they came from, but the ones who would stay are just the type of young, hard working, risk-taking citizens anyone would want - if they'd just learn the frigging language, and remember -- their culture failed them, so don't force it on me, learn mine instead. 

Easy for me to say, as I live in the boonies, and the few immigrants who've found this place to get crap wages doing dog work in orchards are just fine with all of us - no gangs, no bullshit, they keep their heads down because they don't want to be deported.  Nice people, actually, and anything but a drag on the local economy.

I have long used demographics to predict the general long term trends, as did those intelligence community guys who taught me.  Very handy and very hard to go wrong used on the right sorts of things.  After all, everyone who is going to enter the workforce in the next 18-20 years has been born already -- we only know how to make 0 year old humans.  And there's not much fudge at the other end either, barring something like a plague -- very nicely predictable.

Having said that, yes there are differences, and as someone always just at the tail end of the boomers -- they suck as a generation.  I can't totally complain, though.  With the age bias in terms of where your rung on the ladder is, I realized early on I'd never make it to the top in the system the normal way -- there was always someone already there, a few years older, getting paid more (even heard they got more because having kids etc, they needed more -- value to the company doesn't matter?) and a little more experienced.  So I struck out on my own and started a business (now two of them) and did just fine, thanks.

Due to a lot of expertise in avoiding taxes, I won't get much out of SS even if it still exists by then.  But I don't care, being one of those rare ones who DOES have a lotta savings, and I'm now trading them and making more at it than my living costs, so I won't be one of the parasites.  It would offend my pride to become one, frankly.




Fri, 08/26/2011 - 17:04 | 1605688 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Manthong @ 15:15,


You nailed it.

Why do you think (outside the thoughts of increasing their voting base) nothing has been seriously done about the Illegals issues?.

Simple, they are the future taxpayers,and the on average do not just REPLACE themselves man/wife,two kids (as we & the Japanese have done,as Rome did) as we had children.(its very expensive to raise 3-5 kids,even two, as most here know.)

Immigrants,legal and illegal typically are having 3-5 kids,esp the Hispanic populations, as they are by and large Catholics.

By 2020,it is already been proven that at the current birth rates, Hispanics will be the Majority in the US.

They already are ahead of black Americans,as a percentage of the population.

( If I were/am  still alive then,good chance I will be Lord willing, and still healthy) and we have a country left,I will relish that fact.

Also, the vast majority by and large are more moral, have better family ties/units, and unity among their race than any other here.

As a Caucasian, for once WE would be considered a MINORITY............. and paybacks are a Bitch.

Some of you( a lot of you know nothing about White racism,YES it damn sure exists),to have been raised in the late 50's/early 60's, to have lost job opportunities because your white. Even though you were as / more qualified than the one's that got hired, not fun.Been there,done that, been a victim several times over the years.

Based on a lot of the comments here, a few of you have a lot of maturing to do.You may be book smart,common sense stupid,but as you age, wisdom shows up. And you do not get that from books, it's from living.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:16 | 1605223 shazbotz
shazbotz's picture

I'm sure this will be massaged and made to look like positive information by the banksters and their pansies in DC.

Anything to prop up the obviously manipulated markets.



Obama got a hole in one on his 42 vacation of the year, its a celebration bitchez!

Watch stocks jump 120+



Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:17 | 1605225 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Soaking up "labor market liquidity" can be done at the stroke of a pen.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 16:26 | 1605513 Bob
Bob's picture

Sounds like socialism, though.  There's nothing more hated than some words.  Seems we got edjakd bowt wrds. 

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 15:17 | 1605228 Random_Robert
Random_Robert's picture

I thought the boomers are all supposed to end up in those FEMA camps.... Sorry, I meant "Urban Secured Housing Facilities"

So, why are we worried about them, again?

Oh man, I am such a jerk sometimes...



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