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Guest Post: Boomers - Are Going To Be A Real Drag
From Lance Roberts of StreetTalk Advisors
Boomers - Are Going To Be A Real Drag
Recently the San Francisco Federal Reserve Board released a study on the aging "Baby Boom" population and the effects of the demographic pull on stock valuations as these "boomers" move en mass into retirement. From the report: "The baby boom generation born between 1946 and 1964 has had a large impact on the U.S. economy and will continue to do so as baby boomers gradually phase from work into retirement over the next two decades. To finance retirement, they are likely to sell off acquired assets, especially risky equities. A looming concern is that this massive sell-off might depress equity values." [The report isn't long and a good read.]
This is something that we have discussed previously, however, the report points out the obvious concern; "Many baby boomers have already diversified their asset portfolios in preparation for retirement. Still, it is disconcerting that the retirement of the baby boom generation, which has long been expected to place downward pressure on U.S. equity values, is beginning in earnest just as the stock market is recovering from the recent financial crisis, potentially slowing down the pace of that recovery."
There were several very interesting implications in the report such as:
- US equity values (in terms of P/E ratios) have been closely tied to demographic trends over the last 50 years.
- The baby boom generation has had a large impact on the U.S. economy as they saved and invested; now they will have the reverse effect as they become net liquidators of assets - particularly risk related assets (ie. stocks).
- These demographic shifts may present headwinds for the stock markets recovery from the financial crisis
- Due to these demands on assets "real stock prices" may not recover to their 2010 level until 2027.
The last point was the most startling. Most analysts and economists believe it to be a theoretical impossibility for the economy, and by default the markets, to remain stagnant. However, the extent to which the aging of the U.S. population creates headwinds for both the economy and the stock market is something that you can see by taking a retrospective look at Japan.
The Fed report looked only at the middle-aged (40-49) and old aged (60-69) groups. However, I think the issues are more encompassing than just two groups. If we think about the current employment levels relative to the population as a whole we can began to understand this is a larger problem. Assuming that the "baby boomer" generation will begin to liquidate assets as they move into retirement in order to fund living expenses; this is turn potentially leads to lower economic growth. Therefore, if the economy is growing at lower rates then we have to further assume that we will maintain higher levels of unemployment. These assumptions imply that not only will the two age groups identified by the Fed begin withdrawing assets; but that a much larger percentage of the entire population will be saving and investing less.
The problem that these assumptions impose is that savings are required for productive future economic investment. When Japan entered into their post crisis decline they had very high personal savings rates which initially sustained their economic system. Unfortunately, the U.S. does not have the luxury of high savings rates as detailed by the following statistics in our recent post "Beware Of Long Term Investing":
"Let's consider the following facts in regards to the average American worker:
- 56% of the average workers in America today have less than one years salary saved with less than $25,000.
- 76% have less than $100,000; and
- 90% have less than $250,000 saved.
If we assume that the average retired couple will need $40,000 (the average annual salary) in income to live through their "golden years," they will need roughly $1 million dollars generating 4% a year. Therefore, 90% of American workers today have a problem.
However, what about those already retired? Given the boom years of the 80's and 90's that group of baby boomers should be better off, right? Not really.
- 54% have less than $25,000
- 71% have less than $100,000; and
- 83% have less than $250,000."
Low personal savings rates do not leave individuals much wiggle room in an economy where incomes are under pressure due to a large unemployed labor pool. The chart above shows the strong statistical evidence concerning the historical relationship between U.S. employment and equity markets. The dotted lines represent the likely path of both employment to total population and the stock market into 2020 assuming the migration of "boomers" into retirement.
The implications of declining employment to population due to the demographic shift potentially shake the foundations of conventional investing wisdom which assumes that markets always rise over time. The potential impact of these demographic shifts in the U.S. parallel closely with the Japanese economy since their financial crisis took hold almost 30 years ago.
The Japanese Experience
In response to their own real estate/financial crisis, Japan implemented many of the same economic policies that are implemented in the U.S. currently. The result of those policies, combined with an aging population, has plagued Japan with a slow growth economy and struggling financial markets.
The Fed report points to this correlation between the financial markets and these demographic shifts.
"Since an individual's financial needs and attitudes toward risk change over the life cycle, the aging of the baby boomers and the broader shift of age distribution in the population should have implications for capital markets (Abel 2001, 2003; Brooks 2002). Indeed, some studies attribute the sustained asset market booms in the 1980s and 1990s to the fact that baby boomers were entering their middle ages, the prime period for accumulating financial assets (Bakshi and Chen 1994)."
However, one of the key arguments against the U.S. being like Japan has been the strength of employment. While the U.S. may not have as severe of an aging gap between generations; a quick comparison between employment to population ratios leaves little question.
Since both countries face similar hurdles of overburdened social welfare programs, a weak economy and struggling financial markets; sustained levels of high unemployment drag on economic growth. This in turn reduces assets that would potentially be invested back into the system.
We can look at Japanese stock market set against the S&P 500, advanced 10 years to align time frames, in order to see the impact of demographic trends on stock prices. The long term trend of the Nikkei continues to be negative as Japan has followed its path of long term economic decline which has impacted employment levels relative to their total population.
Beginning In 1980, the U.S. has similarly been in a slow degradation of economic growth. As debt levels have increased to sustain a higher standard of living; savings rates have fallen which has detracted from productive investment.
Furthermore, the shift from a production and manufacturing base to a service based economy has further impeded growth by shifting invested dollars into areas with a lower economic "multiplier" effect.
We outlined this in greater detail in "The Breaking Point".
The impact of these shifts almost 30 years ago in the U.S. have just now started to be realized with the bursting of the financial/credit bubble in 2008. With consumers now entrenched in a "balance sheet" recession, the process of deleveraging an entire economic system is a process that occurs over a decade or more. This creates a vicious feedback loop as consumers re-task spending to pay down debt. Reduced expenditures puts businesses in a defensive position which respond by reducing hiring and increasing cost cutting (ie. layoffs) measures to maintain profitability. With higher unemployment comes a competitive available labor pool which lowers wages and salaries. Lower wages decreases the ability for consumers to expend discretionary income which creates lower final demand on businesses. This cycle, once entrenched, is extremely difficult to break. This is the reason why the various stimulus programs have failed to create any lasting economic growth.
Many may scoff at the Fed's report that stock prices will not recover to their 2010 highs until 2027. The migration of "baby boomers" into retirement, combined with sustained high unemployment, low savings rates and a weak economy, does not bode well for strong financial markets into the future. While there are many hopes that the economy will recover in spite of the abundance of factors building against it; the reality is that we may be dealing with the "Japanese Experience".
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OT but maybe Timaaaah will fall off (or be pushed) more easily:
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Earthquake Aftershock Damages Treasury's Rooftop Railing Last update: 8/26/2011 3:15:26 PM By Andrew Ackerman Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES WASHINGTON (Dow Jones)--An aftershock to Tuesday's earthquake caused a small portion of a decorative granite railing on the roof of the main Treasury Department building to crumble, the agency said in a blog post Friday. Treasury believes the railing was damaged in an aftershock early Thursday because there was no apparent damage during an initial inspection of the building after Tuesday's 5.8-magnitude temblor. Dan Tangherlini, Treasury's assistant secretary for management, wrote Friday's blog post. Though there were no signs that any debris fell below the railing onto 15th Street--a well-trafficked thoroughfare just two blocks from the national Mall--the Secret Service has closed the 15th Street sidewalk adjoining the building on "out of an abundance of caution," Tangherlini wrote. A picture of the damage on the agency's blog showed pieces of granite that appeared to have fallen inward onto the building's roof rather than onto the street below. Tangherlini said its main building was originally constructed in 1800 and is the third-oldest federal building in the nation's capital--preceded only by the White House and the U.S. Capitol building. -By Andrew Ackerman, Dow Jones Newswires; 202-569-8390; andrew.ackerman@dowjones.com (END) Dow Jones Newswires August 26, 2011 15:15 ET (19:15 GMT)Boomers?
Fuck 'em.
Dump them on Ceti Alpha V.
LOL I am sure Ricardo Montalban is turning in his grave..
Are you talking about you mama and papa, d*ckweed?
My folks and granparents are already deceased, so I dont really give a crap let them all eat Dinky Di Mad Max dog food.
How about yourself? Enjoy eating dogshit
Seen his YouTube vids?
More like he's eating crap food and spending way too much time sitting in front of a computer making vids and posting to ZH.
THIIIIIIS is Ceti Aplha Five...!!!!!
Ceti Alpha 6 exploded in 1912- exactly one year before the creation of the Federal Reserve and the Internal Revenue Service....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEmJ-VWPDM4
OT: we just modelled a 990 PT on the ES before the September FOMC, and most of the technicals supported it.
what is your model on Gold saying - curious.
GOLD, last we modelled was $2500 year end.
Thanks. Hopefully, I will get out of my paper longs before that . I willget nervous if GOld reaches above $2050.
It used to be that old people were revered. You didn't get old unless you were fairly smart and took care of yourself. Now that we have too many fat old people destroying this country with incessant health care demands it is not surprising they will become an even more hated group.
It used to not bother me when I saw slow old people on the road, messing up the traffic. Now they fill me with disgust. They are burdening millenials with debt because the old blue hairs are too selfish to go wiithout the latest ten thousand dollar health care procedure, or newest powered wheel chair.
LMFAO! U got pizzaz, tct.
"Now they fill me with disgust"
Did you yet realized, Mr Humanwaste, that this is your future
as well? F*king punk "destroying this country" brainless,
useless shit like yourself, destroying this country, M&f*cker.
You must learn to recognize humor and cutting sarcasm here.....and it's ok to write fuck, or whatever. Most of us are not sensitive. It's a bizzaro place to go with the bizarro world we inhabit for now before we all kill ourselselves or go insane (some already have, like me)
I could have sworn you were talking about those on welfare
Yeah, babies and small children are a pain in the ass too.
Feed me! Feed me! Whaaa! Whaaa! Change my shitty diaper! Play with me! I'm sick...Bleech...Clean up my puke...Take me to the doctor!
We should have just dumped you in a ditch before you could talk or find your way home.
>>>They are burdening millenials with debt because the old blue hairs are too selfish to go wiithout the latest ten thousand dollar health care procedure, or newest powered wheel chair.<<<
Boo fucking hoo.
Yeah, this is the generation that is going to step up and "fix" things.
Maybe we babyboomers spawned a generation of emo-fascist cunts. But at least they went straight to grad school . . .
Talk about wasting fucking money.
No joke.
And in spite of grad school, it seems they've fallen for the divide and conquer strategy fairly well.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.
And this is the generation that is going to step up and fix things...they are coming into their "own."
The finance industry seems to have gotten the short end of the conscience stick. Again.
But the fuckers are just as clever as ever, I'll give 'em that!
TOPCALLING TROLL ! You are one big idiot ! WITHOUT THESE BOOMERS YOU WOULD'ND EVEN BE HERE !
Une vérité qui dérange.
My father will turn 90 in October. I asked him one time recently why he didn't have a disabled placard for his car so he could park closer to stores and the like. His response was classic Dad. He said he thought it would be better to leave the disabled parking spaces for people who really need them. This from a man that has COPD and, at one time, was told he would need oxygen therapy the rest of his life. My wife, a Chinese immigrant from Singapore, got into action, talked to an herbalist and they came up with a concotion of a number of herbs and spices (no, not the KFC herbs and spices) that she slow cooks into a soup that he drinks every other day. The result was that not only does he not need oxygen, his pulmonologist doesn't even want to see him any more. Perhaps we, as a society, should be using more herbal remedies like that. The cost of health care would drop dramatically and people would actually be healthier.
Please post the recipe.
Thnx.
My wife isn't here right now, but I found a website that has some of the information.
http://www.wellsphere.com/general-medicine-article/chinese-herbal-recipe...
The recipe her herbalist gave her didn't include the mushrooms they're talking about (which is fine, since my Dad can't stand mushrooms). I'm not sure what wolfberries are. She uses goji berries. She puts it all into a crock pot and simmers it with a hunk of lean pork for about 8 hours. It's not the greatest tasting concoction, but it seems to work. My personal opinion is that there is some clinical benefit, but that perhaps half of the benefit comes from believing it will work. For those that say herbal therapies are just old wives tales, I would say that unless there was some improvement in symptoms from the herbal remedies, they wouldn't be handed down from generation to generation all these years.
One thing I should mention. If you have a cold or the flu, do NOT drink this stuff. My wife said that doing so would exacerbate the symptoms of a cold or flu.
topcallingtroll@ 15:23,
<Now that we have too many fat old people destroying this country with incessant health care demands it is not surprising they will become an even more hated group. >
Hey, piss ant, stop and look at the FAT people, and see what the ages are..................My obs are they are not the older folks.
As you can see by your vote count on your posts on this topic, you are winning friends, and influencing people.
How about a newsflash,whining bitches like you fill me with disgust(Lord I pray that you are a minority thinker in your convoluded views,whatever your age demographic).
Slightly OT, but I have to say that I love closes like this, indices all fading down, gold up. Fading these bullshit rallies is almost too easy. May it keep going for another 40 minutes so I can take the profits to the Mariners game tonight, and the coin shop tomorrow.
What a fucking joke.
Well, spoke too soon. Everything faded back up, though off the highs.
"Due to these demands on assets "real stock prices" may not recover to their 2010 level until 2027."
Dummies, we going to get over 2010 levels in 6-8 month
Better post about GOLD, at least you get better shot.
Dream on, and get out your DOW 10K hat, real soon that will be the highest youll ever see again.
You're making it too difficult. This is easy. Change the inheritance tax. Make Social Security an ETF. If you're in a hurry, lightly sprinkle boomers with pandemic. Done.
how long did the Boomers let this shit go on?
40 - 50 fucking years of smoking weed and sitting around in tie dyed shirts.. eating brownies?? jamming Bob Dillon? Doors? Jimi? WHHHHHHAAATTTTTEEEVVVVEEERRRR!!
fast forward till today! and BOOM! POW!! BANG!!!
$2.5 Trillion in surplus, drained off for pocket money for the Lobby Whore Handlerz??
All the while these idiots where out in Arizona trying to get closer to earth.. good vibes and power crystals! LOL!!
how is that good weed working out for you now?
Maybe we should have another 40 years of sit ins? how about painting some protest signs and then a march? afterwards we will all feel better! like we did something! ALL THOSE GOOD VIBES WITH OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ROBBED BLIND!!
Mean while NOTHING HAS CHANGED, AGAIN!!
Voting with Bullets! can not only save your retirement! it can save the World from being competely over run by scumbag Banksters who have NO LAWS to control them!
or.. you peace luv and happiness FREAKS! can talk yourselves into some more exercise for yourselves while the BANKSTERS enjoy the Caribbean with YOUR RETIREMENT MONIES, AGAIN!!
WAKE THE FUCK UP!!
PEACE, LOVE and Happiness is for after the Banksters and their Lobby Whore Employees are DEAD!
I think you have the wrong idea to what they were "jammin'" too.
The boomers created the perfect socialist paradise for themselves Big-Mic, Big-Ag, Big-Road, Big-Water, Big-Airport, Big-Ed, Big-House, Big-AntiDrug, (coming soon) Big-PoliceState. Socialism works as long as everybody doesn't want in on the scams.
<
JW IN FL @ 15:26,
Your too funny..................the Boomers your speaking to/about, are the one's that have been running D.C. for the past 30yrs,I mean the DECISION makers, the DemoNcrats, and the Progressives, the MArxist /Commie bitches.( we had 8yrs of the bigggest whoremonger,dope smoking drug head ever in,his ?? wife is still in an important position,and just as radical as ever.Spending money like water, as he did,until he was reigned in.
Meanwhile the rest of the regular boomers, were raising families and made this the strongest nation on earth.
Fiscally,and Militarily.................only a handfull screwed this up.(and by design,those were your tie dies, and freaky long hairs,with no jobs, sucking of Momma/Daddy teats),planning how to CHANGE this Republic into a Socialist hell hole.........did a damn good job of carrying on the traditions of the SAME party that started the entire mess, with the same ideas.
The Wilsons, the FDR's, LBJ,etc,etc..................who OPENED the SS Trust Funds to the General Fund(IF he had not done so, we would not be seeing the vitriol on this thread), as there would have been Trillions of excess dollars to mee the needs of those that paid thru the nose into it.
Paying taxes ,and dues, and working their asses off, to have a better life than they had growing up, and also for their kids.
Your talking about a minority of boomers,that wound up as activists, and in power screwing everyon,with rich,elitist parents already in power. The dope smoking, coke/crack heads, (like one we have now),but he's JUST a tad away from the boomer age group.
Except themselves.
>
This post is so full of factual errors that I don't know where to begin.
"However, one of the key arguments against the U.S. being like Japan has been the strength of employment."
Huh? Japan NEVER had the kind of unemployment we have. In fact, that was almost the WHOLE point of their policies.
"The potential impact of these demographic shifts in the U.S. parallel closely with the Japanese economy since their financial crisis took hold almost 30 years ago."
Huh? 1981?
Sure, it's correct to look into demographics, as so much of Japan's problem actually lies in its demographic situation. But I don't think you know what you are talking about. I know it's fashionable to talk about "going Japan" nowadays, but while the comparison is valid on many levels, most of the bandwagonners don't even know a first thing about what REALLY happened in Japan. The fact of the matter is, we are lucky if we will have it as "easy" as Japan did. This kind of comparison is meaningless if you don't get the details right.
Meanwhile...What happened to that convenient pre-open rumor that "Gadaffi was surrounded"..seems like another 9:00 rumor before markets open that you can always count on to me.
We've just begun to turn Japanese! Confirmation will be following the exact footsteps of Japan's (2yr and resign) unaccountable political leadership over the last two decades - a string of one (1) term elected presidential administrations in the US starting with: Obama, Perry, Hillary, Paul, ... and BOOM there goes the best 20 years of your life and what, if anything.., exactly changed besides the puppets in the playhouse?
I am not a drag. Well, maybe a little. :)
Ya think our miners are starting to grow up. The carnage of the last 3 days is doable if you are not on margin. Still hard, but doable. Long a bunch as posted.
Govt is the drag on this crap and will not quit spending.
Perhaps if Charles Rangel's H.R. 5741 is ever passed they will change the ages, instead of 18-42 they will change it to 60-69, both men and women performing national service, that should help the Boomer drag on society.
H.R. 5741:
To require all persons in the United States between the ages of 18 and 42 to perform national service, either as a member of the uniformed services or in civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, to authorize the induction of persons in the uniformed services during wartime to meet end-strength requirements of the uniformed services, and for other purposes.
Start a war and draft them. They drafted me dammit. Fuckers.
malalingua, @15:40,
IF you had a FRIGGING clue what that Bill is really for, your would set yourself on fire and run screaming thru the streets.
This is the NEW BROWN SHIRT ARMY.
Re-read;
" either as a member of the uniformed services or in civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, to authorize the induction of persons in the uniformed services during wartime to meet end-strength requirements of the uniformed services, and for other purposes."
Some folks just have to have a picture to get it.
Just looking the SOURCE of the bill should have told you everything you neeed to know.
Name on thing positve that SOB has ever done in office?.
chill. It's called a satirical attack, exposing one folly to another. Yes, I know what that means.(the bill) Hmm, a Boomer brown shirt Army or just killing them? (As others posted) Those are both insane ideas, INSANE. Allow some of us to point out the absurdity of these things with sarcasm.
Exactly fucking correct!!!!! BTW, why the fuck doesn't anyone even challenge the premise of a gov't ORDERING someone to spend part of their life doing ANY FUCKING THING for the so called "government"?????
It's like gold confiscation. Who the fuck thinks they are in charge of what I can own or not own?? If I'm not a threat to some other person or their property then gov't can just fuck off.
They aren't our fricking FATHERS, for christ sake! They work FOR US (in theory anyway)! This whole concept that people have of the proper role of the government is disgusting and quite frankly disturbing. They are not our keepers, get them the hell out of our lives!!!
The new Brown Shirt Army exists already. They are groping your crotch every time you take a flight. The current white shirts are just the training uniform.
So is Congress and the Ponzi govt. How about shutting down half the agencies who sit around and give each other blow jobs. F Congress. Remove their perks etc.
Biden: more US stimulus needed, business mad at S&P
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/26/usa-biden-idUSN1E77P0H920110826
TIME Magazine Pens Five Page Spread To Convince America Ron Paul Can’t Win
http://www.infowars.com/time-magazine-pens-five-page-spread-to-convince-...
Oh yeah, I'm a boomer. A 50 year old boomer just taking as much as I can grab. Reverse mortgage? You have to be kidding. Porsche? Yep, right after I get three kids through college. Sitting by the pool with my trophy wife sipping Glenlivet.
What a joke.
Agreed. The Govt has spent and spent and spent and exported the fucking jobs and now they are saying they are broke. Guess what shut doen half the agencies and fire Congress and lay off the Whore House Staff and bring home the troops. Wars USA will not win period.
reverse mortgage is the biggest scam ever.
Why not, that's what I do except I prefer Wild Turkey and unmarried women. Porsche.....meh...I likes my Lincoln, and no reverse mortgage. Fuck that.
I thought you were a Cadillac man
"My friend just got a trophy wife. Apparently they're not all first place."
- Steven Wright
This article is delusional...the plan is bankruptcy and WW3, the real big one....Boomers youre pretty much on your own good luck, and you wont even have your 401K's or pensions or any of that, the 'unforeseen economic national emergency' will see to that. 'COG' or Continuity of Govt playbook is all they care about theyll take your assets to feed themselves.
I really miss the old day's of smart well informed comments on ZH. Seems it's turning into Huffpost. (Just the comments Tyler, not the content)
nobody is forcing you to read them. have never visited huffpost so couldn't compare this to it though
This may not be popular, but, I hate the boomers. Hate. These bastards voted for bankrupt-the-nation spenders like Nixon, Regan, Bush I and II, and now Obama. Horrible.
Then these boomer fucktards voted themselves massive pension, Medicare, Medicaid, and social security increases. Result: states are beyond bankrupt. U.S. unfunded liabilities at $100 trillion under current promises (not an exagerration).
Then there is the abject failure of boomers to provide for the United States' future: zero energy policy, idiotic wars, horrendous trade agreements. They lined their pockets with easy money for the last two decades. Now the pain comes.
Well fuck their social security. Fuck Medicaid. Fuck Medicare. Fuck it all.
Oh, you think you're going to tax me at 50% because you were too fat, lazy and stupid to put money aside for a rainy day? Think I'm going to allow the government to print away my money? Think I'm going to slave away so you can feed your fat fucking maw McDonalds in your shitass "golden years"?
Well fuck you. Fuck you to hell. The day the repressive taxes come, or financial repression is instituted, I promise you I am out of here. Go provide for yourself you fat boomer fucktards, because the generations behind you, including me, will not sit idly by while you try to steal even more of our wealth, impoverishing future generations to come with debt that can never be paid back. Our answer is a collective "no."
And fail it will. There is no money, none, to pay for all the shit these idiot boomers promised themselves. No money. Math -- it always wins. Always.
Sequitur ,@15:58
Another hate filled IDIOT.
The Boomers had ZERO say,as like now, what the frigging Gov't did, or does.As a Boomer, I have no power to make a Rep, or a POTUS do jack shit.
Never have never will.........................IF I did, give me 6 mos 100% control, I guarantee you this countries issues would be FIXED.
These programs and policies were put into place WAY before anyone on this site was EVEN born,how dare you blame us.
I feel sorry for you,for your hate, and your total ignorance of History.
True - statism started with Lincoln, came to full bloom in the 19 'teens' with income taxes, fed established, we're all fucking Keynsian-tards now, etc., etc., etc. , then FuckingDR came along with the raw deal, followed by a cast of moron up to the present day, and walla - here is what you get with 100 years of planned statism lookin ya in the face.
Boomers voted in Nixon? You're a fucking moron. Most of them were teen or college-aged hippies back in 1968. Then you don't even mention FDR who started the whole ponzi scheme and congress who are responsible for all the spending. What makes you think another country would take in a fool like you?
ponzi started with woodhead wilson in 1913 with creation of federal taxes (IRS) and Federal Reserve Bank... add to that the notion of the "League of Nations" and you have the seed for what it's come too today... The 100th anniversary is coming up... I hope...
The guy is right about the boomer attitude... I see it all the time... and I'm a boomer, and I voted for Nixon...
He's not wrong... and I certainly don't think he's a moron...
>>>Boomers voted in Nixon?<<<
Don't confuse the little turd with facts.
He needs somebody to blame when he fails
my guess is you are being junked by boomers (you may even be one yourself having a self-loathing episode) but what you say should be cause for concern for those not prepared to enter permanent unemployment/vacation time.
It won't take much to demonize a group, especially one that is costing $$$$ and one that will have a tough time defending themselves. Whether it be the so-called death panels of Obamacare or austerity of the Tea Party, a 70 something in the next 5 or 6 years who depends on the state for the necessities of life, is going to be pretty much effed over by everyone from the clockwork Orange crowd to the the right/left politicos. But the real danger will be folks who think like Sequitur, for it is they who will set the agenda and the tone. Once revered and respected, senior citizens will become convenient scapegoats for all that is wrong, and they will be labeled and treated accordingly.
The world is a mess just as you said. However, it isn't the "boomers" fault.
No one has "provided" for you and you are upset and angry that "opportunities" are shrinking like melting snow. This is more than understandable. Uncertainty is king now, and like you, I can become emotional and anxious under these trying circumstances.
I am sure you want to learn about what really has happened. Most of the people who post are truely uniformed, are really "hurting", never lived outside of the USA, and have no idea of life outside of their surroundings.
A good place to start to understand how we got into this mess, if you have patience to get past the introduction, would be to listen to a lecture by Professor Richard Wolff, entitled
" Capitalism has hit the fan" at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZU3wfjtIJY
After you finish that, please listen to "The Story of your Enslavement" at http://engforum.pravda.ru/index.php?/topic/210256-the-story-of-your-enslavement/
Bon chance!
We have forgotten the basics of the US Constitution and need to go back and truly enforce basic law rather than allow continued lawlessness and selective enforcement by out of control local, county, state and federal governments. Cut their budgets, dissolve ineffective agencies and take control back.
Below is a Word Cloud of the US Constitution, it says it all.
<a href="http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/3966104/Word_Cloud_US_Constitution" title="Wordle: Word Cloud US Constitution"><img src="http://www.wordle.net/thumb/wrdl/3966104/Word_Cloud_US_Constitution" alt="Wordle: Word Cloud US Constitution" style="padding:4px;border:1px solid #ddd"></a>
"I promise you I am out of here." Where you gonna go?
I'm a boomer... and your not wrong...
Apparently this is the guy you're all after . . .
THIS IS THE ONE!
u accidentially forgot the Carter and Clinton fucktards in there........
Corporations will hopefully wise up to the choice they have: pay bigger dividends to retirees and be seen as returning money to the economy, or hoard the billions and pay bigger taxes to the government to redistribute to seniors making 0% on their savings. Of course most of the hoarded billions will be stolen by management before the time comes to make a choice.
we are turning japanese....the plutocrats used japan as an experiment to see what would happen with rapacious policies to plunder the nation....since japan only recently started to vaporize, the banksters are now applying their black magic to amerika....fuck the little people - that's what they are for...
Gold amazing.
A bunch of old decrepit baby boomers in ty dye wanting their bed pans changed after they smoke a joint. Maybe the President is right, bring on the death panels!
Don't forget to throw in all those generational welfare scum into the soylent green mixture
yes.. the blender will be set on puree not crushed ice.
The generational blame game is a waste of time. Boomers loudly blamed the so-called "Great Generation" some 50 years ago, and in fact the inertia of the older generation's belief in "good" America blinded them completely to the horrors of Viet Nam and similar aggressions. Some Boomers played while others fought hard to break the spell, which they saw through as easily as ZH'ers see through the current financial shenanigans.
The trouble is that during relatively good times ( from a wealth perspective), it is almost impossible to mobilize the population against issues that are not immediately affecting them. The slowly increasing push back now comes only under extreme fall off of the economic situation that is impoverishing masses of people as the system crumbles.
Take it up with their parents, the 'greatest generation'. You know, the ones who had six kids, re-elected the socialist FDR, and stood by watching the JFK coup without rioting.
Look, I grew up in the sixties and seventies, working my ass off as a roofer, trucker, Air Force technical sergeant, then a salesman, calorimetry tech, and electrical technician, all blue collar. 60 hour weeks, 20 grand a year.
We had only two (2) boys, and both of them are hardworking, one has two jobs.
The whole time, I was forced to pay into soc sec just like everyone else. Here we are in the future we all read about, villainized because a predatory government blew through the soc security money like it was water, passing it out to dead beats and idiots that never worked, to buy votes. The rest squandered in the 'general fund'.
The media hacks are continually setting one group against another, immigrants vs. natives, black vs. white, city slickers vs. fly-over hillbillies, and now youth against the elders.
Sure, there were some wastoids in the 60's.. and there still are. I know young people that won't even take the hard dirty jobs we had to rely on to support ourselves, moaning about the previous generation. And I guess none of you utes have gone home to live with your evil, worthless, boomer parents, huh?
A bad dog bites the hand that feeds it.
Aim your venom at those responsible for the mess we're in, the elitists laughing all the way to the bank.
Conax,
Stop talking sense.
They've fallen for the divide and conquer strategy perfectly.
They have some group to blame for their failure.
They are finely honed "tools" now.
And all this time we thought the US educational system was ineffectual.........
"BOOMERS ARE GOING TO BE A DRAG " ...... duh .. well, yea ... what did you expect ? all older people are "a drag" . my own parents were a drag, but, then, they died & i wish i could have those "old drags" back. WHAT THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT ?! Our government policy markers knew 40 years ago that this day was coming & failed to prepare for it ! instead, they looted what little wealth that the average boomer managed to save via WALL ST. corruption & bailouts. about 20 years ago i remember how "loved" i was . i was in my early 40's, spending all my income buy cars & houses, paying property taxes & federal & state taxes & social security taxes, spending money raising the children who now hate me .
...... some cultures revile the older people, other cultures cherish the elderly. methinks that the government is doing it's best to pit younger against older people. thank god for the younger generation, they are so much smarter & savier that i ever was. i love our young people, they are to be cherished, they are beautiful & sweet & good. Our young people are being thrown to the wolves just as our older citizens, we need to band together & help each other thru the coming storm of currency devaluation & eventuality of hyperinflation. luv each other, we're going to need each other. sincerely.........
Thanks to Lynbee and Conax for their observations; y'all gave context to my thoughts. I started paying into SS 46 years ago and do expect some return on that money. I mowed yards at 8 years old for pocket money ($2/third acre lot) and have had an income stream since, so I have been a "producer" for 54 years. I do wonder about the contributions/self reliance of all the vitriol spewing younger folks who "hate" boomers.
There is a saying in the deep south, that "a young man should never pick a fight with an old guy". The old guy recognizes that he can't win a "fair" fight and "will just go ahead and kill you". This kernel of wisdom predates the label "boomer".
Let's get through this together.
Yes that saying does predate the Boomers, however it describes their behavior to a 'T'.
It would seem you have not yet gotten old enough to appreciate either the spirit or the justice in that old saying.
The people who are a real drag on society are the 5 million members of the criminal class that cost this country $500 Billion to $1 Trilliion per year. So, why not have an "Obamalaw" version for rationing criminal justice to save money. The criminal class never paid into the system anyway, like the boomers did.
See, the criminal class not only costs society the price of police, court fees, lawyers, incarceration, and the usual judicial and penal system costs that you'd expect, and those are considerable, --- but they also cost us in locks, security systems, higher insurance costs, medical costs for them, medical costs for their innocent victims, costs for property damage, costs for rehabilitation, costs for lost productivity, etc. In fact, one economics student, now at the University of Chicago, had put the yearly cost at $1.5 Trillion per year, and that was more than a few years ago. I'm being conservative when I say $500- 1,000 billion.
So, why not have a an "Obamacourt" version of Obamacare for criminals, to control costs and save money? Why should the criminal class escape austerity? Aren't they the the least deserving. When someone is on trial for murder, the bureaucrats will determine guilt or innocence, like they do treatment for cancer; no reconsiderations accedpted once the dicision is made. And the defense lawyer, like the doctor, is then obligated to help carry the sentence out, or be fined or jailed himself. If the state can save money through a death, then the criminal is obliged to do what is best for society, at the least cost.
Now, if you think that is absurd, then why are we rationing life and death to innocents who have paid into a system for years under Obamacare? Time we have Obamacourt to make things fair.
.
Legalizing pot would recover half that money
Legalizing pot
More stoners...... just what we need. Not!
However, a $500 fine per plant for every home that had more than one plant, plus 1 year in jail for every pound a distrubuter is caught with. I would go along with that.
No.
It wouldn't.
I'm all for legalization, believe me, but - dude, you just hit the bong a bit too hard.
If they keep printing money, stock prices will be much higher almost immediately... Combine that with ZIRP for the next 16 years and you have DOW 100,000 ... Of course you will need to make $600,000 a year at the brink of the poverty level to stay off food stamps... But stocks should do well...
I know a bunch of boomers... I is one... and all my ex friends with money have it all in muni bonds by now... Don't people just sit on that til they die or the bonds mature, then roll them over? just saying...
My Dear Friend Lance,
I have two words for you: FUCK YOU! I have been paying the max in FICA taxes for over 30 years now, supporting the retirement of the generation before me. I intend to collect on a combination of what I have paid in combined with what the next generation will pay in. So I have a suggestion to all you snot-nosed, think-you-are-entitled-to-everything spoined-rotten fuckers: Move your bum ass out of your parent's basement and get a fucking job. Work your asses off like most of us have done. I will enjoy my retirement, extracting from the /ES and /CL on a daily basis, and the FICA taxes on your paltry burger-flipping incomes aren't going to cut it.
Luke Warm Regards,
H
P.S. I know this post is about baby-boomers selling off assets, but it's Friday, and I felt like ranting a little. Now get your ass off my lawn.
That's a great idea. Ya we do have alot of our generation in those burger flipping jobs, because the boomers allowed all those great middle class jobs to be shipped to China. Nobody moves out of their parents house while flipping burgers.
#41
#41,
"Nobody moves out of their parents house while flipping burgers."
Sure they do, Hispanics do it all the time, their parents are a long way from Mickey D's.
Your pussy Gen wouldn't takes guts/and sacrifice, to pay your own way on Mickey D's wages.
You still livin at home?.
Ever tried raising a kid & a wife making a $8.25 hr?.
Yep, can be done, w/out food stamps, and welfare handouts too.
Everything went to crap under the boomers, George Carlin summed it up the best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR8aFDosQBQ
I came out of a bathroom in a small Vegas eatery, as I grab the door knob the guy on the other side is already coming in. I look up and there was Carlin. He looks and me and without taking a breath says: "did you wash your hands" and he laughs. The guy got a little bitter in the later years but he was always on and always funny. I miss his humor.
Wow, you boomer bashers are funny. Uneducated, sad and pathetic, but funny.
I guess the post-boomers have conveniently forgotten that most of the computer technology that the generations X, Y and Zero are now so obsessed by was invented and deployed by.... guess who? Foks like these guys. Not just computers, but the internet (formerly Arpanet) too. Built, bought and paid for by boomers.
Of course, a lot of the remaining ambient wealth of the USA's infrastructure was built and paid for by baby boomers too. Water systems. Highways. Bridges. How selfish of us all for not simply gifting all this to the next generation, gratis.
So boomers want the money back they put into social security so they can retire and eat less cat food. I guess that makes them greedy selfish bastards. Worse, all those baby boomers have chosen to grow old, and get sick. How silly of them! Good thing the millenials, gens X, Y and Z won't start with that nonsense.
As for the gentleman who so eloquently claims that "boomer fucktards voted themselves massive pension, Medicare, Medicaid, and social security increases," I am a boomer and somehow I don't recall voting for any of this. In fact, I never voted for social security. I believe all of this was in place by the time I arrived in 1957. Certainly nobody ever asked me about it. FYI, I have no pension. I've built my retirement around the idea that I might not have any social security, but feel free to stereotype a hundred million people or so who were not responsible for the time, place or government they were born into.
So you go guys. Bash away. I'm sure that highly constructive behavior will solve all of your problems.
I on the other hand will just chuckle, because you too will be old. In what will seem to you like the blink of an eye.
Cheers!
The Boomers paid for infrastructure? LOL. Who knew the highway systems were paid for by a bunch of ten year olds and teenagers? I only bash the majority of your generation. The Greatest Generation started the outsourcing of our factories and you fuckers kicked into overdrive by sending white collar jobs so that we could get cheap Chinese crap and the executives (you adamantly defend [who you call a socialist if you bash those POS's] could get huge bonuses for gutting what was left of the middle class. Blame whichever President you want for the shape of our crappy economy, that is what slaughtered our economy once and for all. The greed of your generation.
Thanks for computers and not a whole lot more. I wish I was born when you were. The Greatest Generation set the stage perfectly for your generation to continue an American empire, but instead you guys destroyed it.
FYI- The greatest generation also voted in Johnson who started all the huge welfare, medicaid, medicare programs whilst starting the 'great society'. Those are the very programs we boomers were told we had to pay into so our parents (the greatest generation) could retire without worry. Those are the very same programs that are making us insolvent right now. Please, all, do your studying and cut it out with all the sweeping generalities. Every generation has their 10-20% leeches. All of the people in each generation should not be grouped together and labeled. That type of thing is just plain small minded.
Edit: also the boomers did not vote in Richard Nixon. Remember, he closed the gold window and started us down this inflationary debt ridden road.
It's not just entitlements that are bankrupting the country. What about needless wars? Needless defense spending that throws away billions of dollars that don't need to be spent. If we had kept the knowledge our defense industry produced from the Chinese, we wouldn't need to spend half of what we spend now. What about stimulus packages that don't work? I could go on and on...
You sir, are an ignoramous. The boomer generation had little or nothing to do with these things you complain about, all were in place before the first boomer was even a gleam in their parents eyes. They did't start social security, the military industrial complex, or outsourcing jobs, or statism in this country. The US did everything they could to rebuild and modernize Japan after the war which laid the groundwork for all the outsourcing to come, and that wasn't boomers that did it. Maybe everything you buy now says 'made in China', but it said 'made in Japan' for decades before that. Granted they didn't end any of the bullshit and close down the fed and kick the kleptocrats out, but most of this crap started long before they came around. If it makes you feel better somehow to blame them, then whatever, but dig in to things a little further before casting blame out there.
I blamed the Greatest Generation for outsourcing manufacturing jobs and said the Boomers accelerated the slaughtering of the middle class by sending white collar jobs overseas. Reread what I wrote.
While Boomers didn't start the military industrial complex, they certainly have no problems extending it in the name of "National Security." I was responding to his post basically stating 'entitlements are the reason the country is in such horrible financial shape.' I was saying entitlements are not the only reason the country is bankrupt.
I thought Al Gore invented the internet......
sPEED kILLS...do it to me...slogan of my baby boomer youth..
AND IF YOU GIVE ME WEED WHITES AND WINE
AND YOU SHOW ME A SIGN
THEN I'LL BE WILLING
How DARE those bad old boomers sell their stocks!!! The nerve! It's almost as if they thought they owned them or something! WTF?
Guess what? As they get paid ever devalued SS bennies and medical care is scaled back, they will need to sell stocks even faster.
If this thread is any indication, the next "generation" will do little but bitch and whine about "boomers." They won't address the structural problems of the Fed, the monetary system and the systemic corruption it's caused.
Instead you'll end up in wrist braces from texting each other. You won't even be able to have a decent flash circle jerk. Then what?
The old and the sick fall behind the pack.
We will won't even be glancing back as TPTB predators pick y'all off one by one, as we sprint into the future.
Doesn't this solve the Peak Oil and Global Warming problems as well?
Well if they hadn't devalued the dollar by 95% over the past 40 years and spent all of the SS trust fund we might be in a better position to care of ourselves.
It's not like we had a choice of being born.....
So profoundly true.
Which generation are you speaking for, btw?
Boomers have ALWAYS been a drag. Reagan didn't raise the FICA Tax nearly high enough to cover them. Also, Boomers have foolishly fallen for ever Wall Street "Get Rich Qucick" scheme from the first housing Bubble-- S&L scandal to the dot-coms idiocy, to ENRON, and then the Home as ATM/Flip This Property scams. They never learned, and now they are filling all the McJobs usually reserved for students, thus screwing Generation Y, along with GenX (whom they have used as their personal punching bags for decades), themselves, and the elderly of the Greatest Generation.
Don't ever expect or thanks, pity or respect.
LOL! Go back to fisting monkeys.
all the whiny little bitchez have daddy issues. lulz
Seems so.
The failure of the boomers is the same as the failure of the Y geners, and now the current early 30's group...none of them stays actively involved in our democracy.
The people who run things will always look out for themselve and their own. Furthermone they have money to lobby for their preferences.
If you want to live in a more egalitarian society organize, make your demands known via civil disobedience.
Democracy is not gotten by staying home and going to the voting polls once a year or every two years or 4. ALL the candidates are part of the owner class. You have to get active and support workers, worker rights, and you have to get active in your communities.
It is easy to blame another generation, your parents, the government, the banks, etc. GO DOWN with a fight.
It is all you have.
For those playing the intergenerational warfare game here or elsewhere please remember TPTB are actually playing you. Divide and conquer - the oldest TPTB game in the book.
And just FYI, I imagine that a lot of people who have reverse mortgages were forced to tap their home equity to pay not for luxury cars or vacations but to pay medical bills, regardless of what those Robert Wagner TV commercials would like to pretend. That's what my wife and I had to do, but I think we've managed to preserve at least a little equity for our kids. Haven't taken a vacation in years, drive a 2004 Honda, and work every day at age 70. Not bitching - I love where I live, I love my wife and family, I have a few good friends - more than I deserve I'm sure - and I love my work as a writer. I know there are leeches in the system, but not all of them are old.
Instead of cross-generational demonizing may I suggest a little more charitable thinking on everybody's part? Let's not allow "Divide and Conquer" to work - at least let's not make it so damned easy for TPTB.
Boomers will become a drag...
I thought they always were a drag!
You won't find any boomers at my parties!
drag eh? kinda like steve jobs in a tiny black dress...
Wow, and people think I'm harsh.
We can dial back granny's care when govt. eliminates every single wasted pork dollar, and at least most of the 50billion$ stolen from Medicare every year through fraud.
Since you and govt. don't seem to give a shit about fraud, waste, and abuse, granny sould be fine. You can dial back your life by one notch to make up for you unconcern about the theft by your own govt.
Go ahead and show me how easy it is to put a crimp in feral govt. spending, you ass kicking millenials.
I'll wait.
Maybe we are all just balloons waiting to be popped to release the contents inside.
In this context, blame and polarization are absurd concepts. Wars pop the meat sacks faster. Pretty much everything else might just be noise.
Most people do not even think about elections until Labor Day of Presidential election years. They think about the Presidential race only and think about that like they think about following a sports team. Even I, active now, did not wake up until I was in my 50s in the early 90s.
If I were all powerful I would mandate that the one goal of the education system would be to produce individuals capable of reading and having the math abilities to understand economics. All the rest, literature, biology, art etc. would be optional. It has been by taking advantage of our disinterest and ignorance of this one area that we have been deceived to the point of coming undone.
Most of us go through life learning the skills of our trade and even become experts at a hobby or two. We trusted those in economics to be skillful to behave honorably. In that one error we have become vulnerable the great reset that is now coming. Next time my offspring will be ready, hopefully yours too.
lasvegaspersona, @20:17,
We spend more in the U.S. per student, and get less for it than I think any other country.
In my state the cost per student(depending on district), is approx $8-9k per kid per year.
Most come out dumb as a stump.
And, with the curriculum it's no wonder,it's all geared towards socialism,and the NWO,Green Crap,PETA, anything but an education,with anything to do with their heritage as Americans(we gotta have diversity crap though).
But, this year we had a break, and it will affect MANY states because the text books we picked, are used by a lot of different states.(Texas buys so many)
The new text books will make teachers teach the Constitution, and the Articles of Confederation, and the BOR's.( The Libs went apeshite).
It's Think Globally, ACT Globally now...........I know quite a few home schooled kids, they are LIGHT years ahead of the best H S Public schooled kids.
Most are at at least Freshman/Soph level college already.And their taught REAL History.......not the Progressive crap.
Also,I think EVERY student should be forced to take a class on a trade, their choice, but something of value through life.
Not everyone is college material, nor will they ALL want to be.
Interesting discussion. I suspect there are a few "new trends" boomers will be seeing, but were not expecting.
1. Trends will re-inforce harder as the later boomers pass through on account of less saving and more borrowing.
2. The post retirement trend will be "going back to work, were possible" as inflation destroys fixed incomes.
3. Selling the big, fixed up house to us gen-Xers for mega bucks is not going to happen. From the gen-X perspective, its has to tick ALL the boxes, needs no work on it and is priced at a much lower price. Boomers might not agree, but, being next in line to NEED big houses for families the price really is the price and if you don't like it we go next door to your boomer neighbour or his neighbour etc. etc. who is deperate to downsize. There are fewer of us gen-Xers so WE have the power if we can afford to buy. I make a point of sharing this point to all my peer group as overvalued house prices are nothing but a massive unearned wealth transfer from young to old. Sorry, secrets out before people realised it was something to keep secret.
4. Gen-Xers are in power NOW, and the economic agenda has switched from consumption to production. Retirement is not productive, ergo, Boomers will find themselve cut out of the economy.
5. Future economic activity in the West is switching to overseas markets for consumption, so the West now has to export. This is going to include the export of capital as there is no non-industrial assets worth investing in (like houses). The outcome is boomer domestic assets will decline in value. (as an Xer I have switched my pension allocation to asia funds. That was done PRE-CRISIS and I am not the only one who saw this coming).
6. Immigration / generational trends are going smash boomer spending power where they least expected it. Currency debasement in the West will cut off access to cheap immigration labour for esential services (e.g. care nurses). Meanwhile many of the millenial generation have been cut adrift of the jobs market due to the depression. They lack the skills to participate and this is going to put a squeeze on high skill service jobs (e.g. doctors). Life gets more expensive at both ends when you need that least.
7. Gen-Xers don't believe on the whole in a massive welfare state. We have effectively been cut out of it, so we don't support it. When the money runs out, it runs out I think you will find.
8. Gen-Xers have suffered huge taxation burdens. We don't want to pay high taxes especially when the services we need like schools or child allowance are inadequate or have been taken away. No money out means no money in. That means the end of the savior state and the birth of the self service state - that will make life harder for older people.
Oooo, those rotten boomers, if only WE were in charge none of this would have happened and we'd have fixed everything. What have you bitching pussies EVER fixed?
My great grandfather was writing letters to Washington raving about the national debt in the 20's and 30's. I've got the letters. He was a political activist ranting on soapboxes (literally) on the streets of NY. Did that change anything? What else was he supposed to do? The die was caste in 1913 you bigoted simpletons. Last chance to stop it went down with JFK. Vietnam and the "Great Society" busted us and forced us into Bretton Woods default in 1971. Most boomers at that point were in their 20s and as powerless as you are now.
We don't create the world we're are born into; we only have choices in the world we find ourselves in. And in the long run we're all dead and so is everyone we love--some sooner than others, and no one knows when. Are you OK with that? If not, there's a good problem to start working on.
Bastiat,@ 20:36
Thank You for putting it in a form most rational people understand.
Gracias.
Well stated Bastiat.....I believe your namesake would approve of your words too.
These are the trends. Get used to it.
As a gen-Xer we pay in, and we get nothing. THAT IS FACT. You think that the yonger generation will be putting in the system for us ? We will be putting in for them as they won't have jobs.
Actually, our perspective is to go back to the old ways - you ONLY get what YOU pay in.
And, if you hadn't noticed, we are starting to be in power. We are not going to riot, or protest or do a bunch of hippy shit. We are going to think, talk, work then act. We are pragmatic for 3 those words, only the "ACT" word is the radical one. It was my generation that constructed the World Wide Web which has changed everything . Thats just a start
And being a Brit, I can confirm as historic FACT you do have choices. We were bust after the second world war with debts, destroyed overseas markets and we knuckled down and concentrated on being productive and saving, created the NHS - That was my grandad's generation who also fought WWII - it was done with sacrifice. So if it can be done in Britain, whats America's excuse. Don't you guys vote ? Was there not enough of you to vote ?
I look up to my grandad's generation - your genration just created a massive debt bubble and did nothing about it. Thats a FACT. Thats why there is a depression now.
While we are not dead, lets work on the problems in the mean time. Even now there are things that could be done.Your response is pathetic. No wisdom there when there should be. Useless.
I am a boomer and I am still paying into the scheme and probably more than you are. I haven't received a thing from any of those programs. Please quit playing the sweeping generalization game. BTW, the Germans did at least as well as the Brits and they were 10 times more destroyed than you were. I would be very happy getting back just what I paid into the system and I can bet it has been a lot more than you. So cut it out with the generational warfare screed. You say how we didn't do anything constructive or offer any good ideas during times of crisis. Well, what are your constructive ideas? All I see thus far is finger pointing.
You might be right about what you earn, and what you pay in being more. You might not. I am not poor but I am angry. Sometimes it is RIGHT to be angry.
The point about the paying into the system is not tuppence in for tuppence out. It it that it has CREATED A HUGE PROBLEM by contributing to over consumption. This has lead to economic imbalances and ultimately the debt depression. when are you guys going to get it ?
I can certainly speak for what happened in Britain - a huge housing bubble stoke up so your generation could go shopping, get cushy government jobs and awkward unemployed people could be bought off. I have see all this first hand. In the mean time, to maximise all this shopping power, loads of immigrant workers were brought in and cheap Chinese goods allowed in distroying industries and lowering wages for the yonger generations. This was all voted for, approved of and consumed by the boomer generations in our country - I presume the US to be the same. The debts left over to be paid off are astonishing. You think no-one should be angry about that ?
Then, you go on about generational politics, like the boomer generation has never discussed it or sung about it since 1965.
I worked for Lehman when it failed. In the aftermath, some economic advisor person gave a presentation on the crisis. "It could lead to generational politics" he said. "That would be a bad thing" he said. Guess how old he was ? You guessed it. Do as I say, not as I do. Not only that, I had no idea how Lehman made its money until we went bust. Basically, my understanding of it is that it was fraud in all but criminal offence.
WHY did he say this ? Because the presentation confirmed this economic crisis is a twenty plus year deal. You getting this ?
So when I get told not to talk about stuff, I start talking about it. It all needs to come out. The truth - mega banks set out to fund boomer consumption without them worring about having to stump up the productivity to cover it. That this would be passed down as debt to the future generations - see where I am comming from ? Think this generational politics is still nothing ? "Here is the presentation, this is what has happened, you have no choice, you are paying the bill" - but to cap it off, "so don't discuss it!"
NO - this now NEEDS to be discussed. We need to KNOW what has happened. We need to CONDEM what has happened. We need to CHANGE what is going on. We need to CHALLENGE lame thinking and there is nothing we can do about it attitudes.
This is something I can do, this is what I am doing HERE. I also make sure I vote, and I make sure consider carefully who I vote for. THis is what I can do , so I make sure I do it.
I AM ALSO GRATEFUL FOR ZERO HEDGE FOR ALLOWING ME TO SAY IT, IT NEEDS SAYING
The government has outsourced jobs and let ILLEGALs flood into the country, under cutting wages and taking the jobs that are left. The government threatened to sue banks that didn't give ILLEGALs loans, for discrimination (liar loans). I have friends of ALL colors. Every tax payer pays approx. $1500 for social services for ILLEGALs. I'm 51 at the end of the definition of a boomer. I'm in the same boat as everyone after the boomers, I have NO fantasy about getting any social security (67/$1500) that I have been paying into since I was 16 with a paper route. I served my country, Army and Navy. I've accepted that I'll have to work till I drop dead or live on dog/cat food. I have been active with Ron Pauls campaign since 2007, trying to change this corupt system from with in. I've talked to alot of young people involved in RPs campaign and most have a sympathetic ear for ILLEGAL immigration but want to blame boomers for our economic situation. When I was in my 20s/30s I lived for the moment but always voted. This WHOLE system is rigged. Were being set up for a NWO. Learn Spanish, because now you have to know that to be a supervisor. Want to blame people? Direct your anger at the GOVERNMENT ,FEDERAL RESERVE, BANKERS and ILLEGALs!
Your generation will certainly pay more into SS, but it is not because you guys are so great. As I said in my other post, your generation was born during the right time in American history. The stage was set. All you had to do was not fuck the empire up. Now that the country's economy is so gutted from outsourcing/insourcing (visa program), there will be wage deflation for the next decade. Gen X and Y is screwed. I don't know if the country will ever hit "full employment" (with well paying meaningful jobs) again.
"Actually, our perspective is to go back to the old ways - you ONLY get what YOU pay in." - THAT is a BLATANT LIE.
When SS "started" MILLIONS of people who PAID NOTHING INTO THE SYSTEM were 'put on it' and once on, received checks for the rest of their lives. MANY of these people collected for 20-30-40 YEARS without having paid in shit.
SO, if you want to go back to the 'old ways' lets do this.
Make a new 'entitlement program' like SS NOW. Call it America Security. Start taking an ADDITIONAL 10% out of EVERYONES pay check, and distribute it to the non workers, NOW. Tell EVERYONE that this will be here for them at some time in the future, just like SS.
Zippy, I've knuckled down, worked since teen years, saved, did war-time service, successfully parented. For my own part, I should be fine without SS, medicare or any other government bullshit I've been compelled to pay for. I never expected it anyway since the Great Generation shut down any political discussion of SS reform in the 80s. So I've paid in all my life without really expecting much back.
BTW, Reagan was not a boomer nor was Bush1, Greenspan, Cheney, Wolfowitz or Rumsfeld. Clinton was but he was a morally bankrupt political opportunist and narcissist on his own merits. Who was behind the worst things he did: NAFTA and the repeal of Glass-Steagall? Was there something generational about either of those things? Who were the people out there originating sub-prime mortgages--or taking them out? All boomers? Is Barney Frank a boomer?
The problem is in the Fiat money system, the Federal Reserve System and the fractional reserve banking system. The expansion of the legal right of the corporation and, as Eisenhower warned us on his exit, the military industrial complex. Misallocation of capital, human and otherwise, isn't caused by mythic sui generis generational personality traits but by inflation, institutionalized capital dysfunction, govermental and regulatory capture resulting in systemic corruption undermining the rule of law.
This focus on demonizing an age cohort, generation or whatever you want to call it is fallacious and useless. It leads people to utter such indefsible stupidities as this: "your genration just created a massive debt bubble and did nothing about it. Thats a FACT. Thats why there is a depression now. " People whose level of insight is arrested at this level will solve nothing.
There are different kinds of wisdom. A practical kind that involves having insight into what are the dynamics causing the problem you wish to solve and a personal kind dealing with the problems of life, death and change. I don't see much of either in your post.
Zippy @ 21:29:
"It was my generation that constructed the World Wide Web which has changed everything . Thats just a start"
Robert Cailliau (French: [ka?jo]), born 26 January 1947, is a Belgian informatics engineer and computer scientist who, together with Sir Tim Berners-Lee, developed the World Wide Web.
Yeah, just a start, on the backs of boomers. But guys like you who think like bigots, take credit for other's work, think the NHS is a great accomplishment (until it runs out of other people's money_ will fix it all because, by gosh, you're just super. Right.
I'd wish I had the time and wealth to be as self-righteous as some on the forum but...I paid into the system for my parents, I hope there's some left for me. But now with the world all screwed up I have to support the kids who can't get jobs, even with the college education (I paid for)and I worry for the grandkids...that my friends it the predicament of the upright boomer.
lasvegaspersona @ 20:38,
Save your breath, you cannot reason with people who do not care for others.
To the few here, NO Boomer is Upright...................none.
Boomers want empathy from other generations? LOL.
You know I wonder, what are the implications of China's demographic bubble. Demographically Japan is 15 years ahead of us, and China is 15-20 years behind us, and China's demographic shift will be much sharper. I wonder how they plan to handle that.
#41
With any luck, the Chinese sourcing stratergy will be called "India".
Should help to dry up the worker pool a bit more and take the heat of wages.
My father had to have used 100's of thousands of dollars in the last couple years. The procedures and hospital stays just kept getting more complicated and longer and thus, more costly. I know that when I get to his age I will be lucky to get a fraction of the expenditure he was allotted. Just how the system works; nobody really cared that much about saving him -- they wanted the fee's treating his many afflictions generated. But that's just how things are nowadays. He earned it though, 3 years in Europe fighting Nazis and working at a factory to put himself through school. We're burying him tommorrow morning. I'm rambling I know.
BTW, tommorrow I will be 50 years old. It beats the alternative I guess, but I am very worried about my future. I have a pension to look foward to and a little money saved but I don't think either are going to hold up. The hatred directed at the boomers is frightening and frustrating since was born near the end of the boom and I always got the leftovers. So I get screwed again. I still have my health and a decent job so I feel I still have a chance to make a decent retirement for myself. It's getting ugly though, since employers are getting rid of people my age and hiring younger, cheaper (and less experienced) workers.
Hang in there guy. I know what you must be going thru. Hopefully your dad left you with some really good memories that will make you smile in the future.
So the fucking Boomers have gotten themselves in a mess just before retirement. Maybe Woodstock, divorce(s), coke lines, feminism, fetishes, porn, valium, disco, and all manner of things self-indulgent stunted their mental capacities. To think they were the offspring of the "greatest generation" simply staggers the mind. Like Sheriff Buford T. Justice would say: "How the fuck can they be from my loins?"
I don't understand how the Boomers have little to no retirement savings. I have about as much as the average Boomer and I'm thirty years from retiring. Where the hell did all your savings go? If you say our generations I will laugh. Just a warning.
Booby ,@23:28
You are a PRIME examle of Why, some animals eat their young.
Kinda funny how these people think outsourcing started with China because everything they've bought in their lives says 'made in China'. They don't remember the old days when everything used to say 'made in Japan' on it thanks to the seminal outsourcing work of the 'greatest generation'. Bunch of fucktards.
Read what I wrote. www.hookedonphonics.com
Oh great! I made it! I only need 10k a year and that's easy to do according to your formula. Usually I get scared by these kinds of stories.
The U.S. is adopting the Mexican model for its working classes. The masses seem ok with this. So don't worry, be happy.
The Mexican work model is our answer to the "immigration" dilemma. Before too long nobody will be immigrating to the U.S. So, don't sweat it, be happy.
Divide and conquer, divide and conquer. If they can only divide us all with imaginary rivalries like old vs young, demo vs repub, black vs white etc etc they can beat us and push us around at will.
The one thing that scares the shit out of them is organization.
Jay Gould said "I'm not worried about a revolution. I can hire half the working class to kill the other half".
Now they don't even have to pay you. Just feed you a line of bullshit and some kind of rah rah kill them all speech and they can do whatever the hell they like to you.
So pat the government on the back for throwing Granny under the bus, after they gave their banker friends trillions.
Wait till you see what they have planned for you.