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Guest Post: Boots On The Ground In China: Signs Of A Slowdown Are Obvious

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man

Boots On The Ground In China: Signs Of A Slowdown Are Obvious

Stunned. That probably best describes the mood of China's vast pool of property owners. For the last few years, anyone with as much as a taxi driver's salary has been speculating in the real estate market, scooping up off-plan properties at terms that would make a Countrywide mortgage broker blush.

And why not? Chinese culture has almost universally adopted the attitude that property prices never go down. Minor fluctuations and corrections over the last several months have been written off as statistical error.  Well, reality has now uncomfortably set in.

Recent reports from the National Bureau of Statistics show that home prices have fallen up to 50% in many parts of the country in the period from July to September. But who gives a damn about government reports? The real evidence is on the ground.

Here in Shanghai, nearly 300 angry customers stormed a sales office of Longfor Properties Co Ltd after finding out that the developer had slashed prices on one of its projects by nearly 25%... practically overnight.

Another angry mob in Shanghai assembled outside the sales office of China Overseas Property Group Co after that company made similar price concessions for new buyers. 

These were obviously the poor suckers who bought in months (or years) ago at a much higher price... and they're not especially happy about a property crash.

The most significant contributor to the price decline is tightening credit; after dumping trillions of dollars into the economy to ward off the effects of the global financial crisis, the Chinese government is now pressuring banks to reduce loans.

This is bringing much of China's credit-intensive economy to a screeching halt. So much for China leading the world out of the global financial crisis. And it doesn't just affect the property market.

Auto dealers are having the same issues, with many luxury brands ranging from BMW to Mercedes offering steep discounts up to 20% to lure buyers onto the showroom floor. 

Growth has definitely slowed dramatically, and the tightening of credit is having widespread effect across the economy... and the prospect for increased social unrest here is growing.

Taking a page from America's playbook, the government is responding by playing up threats of terrorism. It's an easy distraction, and it keeps people in line. In fact, China's government is revising its policy to ensure that anyone who might rock the boat is branded a 'terrorist' and will be subject to asset seizure.

Many people with money or significant assets in China see the writing on the wall and are lining up to diversify internationally-- citizenships, trusts, foreign bank accounts, etc. I should know, I just spent the day in a room packed with Chinese people trying to learn about their internationalization options. I'll tell you more about that tomorrow.


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Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:42 | 1814754 hambone
hambone's picture

And as the Chinese are trying to diversify out of China (knowing it for the ponzi it is), the rest of the developed world rushes to get in (to avoid the ponzi they currently occupy)!!! 

Ancient chinese secret, Confucius say, buy gold (bitchezzzz)!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:16 | 1814942 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

Actually, Buddhist never turn down gold as a gift; but will turn down almost everything else.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:27 | 1814977 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Real estate, bitchez.

They quit making it...

...but it sure does get recycled a lot.


*It's always a great time to buy a house! This message brought to you by The National Association of Realtors™,  The National Mortgage Brokers Association , ReMAX, your local property tax assessor's office, and Bang Dae-Ho.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:29 | 1815189 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

About 18 months ago The Middle Kingdom advised itsw people to buy gold and that RE was too high....the PRC began tightening credit, bank reserves, etc..

The gubberment there even opened numerous "offical" gold stores with the royal approval and official prices I read...

Many people listened...some did not. These are the protesters I suspect.

Wait until The Land of Oz feels these effects of a slower Dragon that eats less copper, iron,'s gonna be painful....

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:39 | 1814759 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

i dont think the Chineese treat those who scam them , as nice, as the American sheep do when they are scammed

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:10 | 1814912 trav7777
trav7777's picture

ROTFL...the entire national economy is a scam

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:25 | 1814972 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Chanos 1, Rogers 0.

Game over.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:41 | 1815029 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Ya. But it was fun globally while it lasted! Now time for organized decentrialization. The good news is the Internet and flow of information make it shorter cycle to recover. Plus Interwebs is fun.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:10 | 1815126 kito
kito's picture

Chanos 1 rogers 0????? Bwahahahahah based on simon "chilean utopia" black???? Bwhahahah dream on. China is doing just fine. Growing pains are about all china will have while the u.s. needs morphine as it dies a slow painful death....

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:24 | 1815176 malikai
malikai's picture

Ditto. I spent 4 months in Beijing throughout this year. I'll be spending the next two months there as well. I haven't seen ANY of what he's talking about.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 22:31 | 1815532 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Beijing, eh?

Funny, Maryland has the lowest employment rate here in the US, perhaps that has something to do with it's proximity to...  Washington, DC?

You may want to spend some time outside the capital city.  Collapse starts at the periphery.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 03:54 | 1816281 e-recep
e-recep's picture

Shenzhen is doing fine and it's nowhere near Beijing. What's all this "China is in trouble" claptrap? I see it all the time on Mish's blog and less often here. Does it alleviate the pain or what?

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 07:32 | 1825978 sub Z
sub Z's picture

Yeah… China has its share of problems but, from an observation standpoint, Shenzhen looks fine. Restaurants are packed, shoppers are buying expensive luxury brands, movie theaters are hopping, I have never seen so many expensive cars packed in one place, the Chinese are savers and have little debt, the middle class is small but the same size of the US population, lots of rich people, lots of competition - something lacking in the US, practices a thing called capitalism, they are investors economically and in themselves, modernized infrastructure, big name global businesses investing and have a large stake in, a medical system that doesn't squeeze the life out of people and has good food (xrays, doctor visits, medication, about the same cost as co pays, good service, you can stay in one building to get all the testing done), nice public transportation system, an education system that works, low taxes, actual electric vehicles… ever hear of a Buick Excelle XT or Envision or a $1.44 million (9.18 million yuan) Dartz armored vehicle? Expected to be popular among China's new money, who are in desperate need of ever more ostentatious vehicles. There is hope there and nothing but fear here.  

From a business standpoint, would you want a market of 1.3 billion hard working and motivated Chinese or a milked dry to the bone, filled with despair, highly regulated, socialized, jobless, homeless, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey shit and taxed to death 300mm with a debt to GDP ratio of over 600% not counting obligations? The US has overcome the obstacles thrown at it in the past and I don’t see much difference in China. So the rich speculator gets squeezed and the people who couldn’t afford a nice place get a chance hopefully. What happens when they are better off and demanding things with a stronger currency? To have no jobs, high inflation, deflated property values, high taxes, and huge debt at the same time while the other guy sucks the food out of your kids mouth? That is the question folks, yes it is.


Thu, 10/27/2011 - 01:38 | 1816135 defencev
defencev's picture

Sure. Charlatans are now moving to so-called front markets. After recommending to put your savings in Mongolian tugriks SB is now suggesting to get rid of Yuans he just recommended a month ago. Whatever. Just continue your subsrcription to "Sovereignman:Confidential"...

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 05:42 | 1827841 sub Z
sub Z's picture

lulz... see it's ok, he saw it on the television

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:40 | 1814760 Fake Jim Quinn
Fake Jim Quinn's picture

Real estate bust, female Char Peis

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:40 | 1814765 Debtless
Debtless's picture

Even after a major slowdown - they'll still lap everyone else. Solly.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:40 | 1814767 jcaz
jcaz's picture

I thought that land in China was state-owned,  which would be the ultimate fuck-yoo....  Oh look, your property has gone up 200%.... Oh, I mean OUR property has gone up 300%,  the shell YOU own atop of it has dropped 100%-  seeyabye.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:40 | 1814769 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Sorry, OT: ALL trading on the Australian stock exchange has been halted indefinitely.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:46 | 1814798 chump666
chump666's picture

thats' good, safe my ASX 200 futures shorts. 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:47 | 1814804 chump666
chump666's picture

on topic: a China hack job huh?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:50 | 1814818 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Hahahah!!!!  That is AWESOME!   Just when it looked like the pixie dust was going to carry stocks higher.....   This will make the flash crash look like a hiccup....

What can take stocks down?  


Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:56 | 1815078 chump666
chump666's picture

ASX news.  somthing is up, looks like a hack IMO

ASX spokesman Matthew Gibbs said that the market was halted at 10.05am after market participants were unable to conduct transactions.

  • At that time 6700 trades had already taken place, he said, but the nature of the problem was still unknown.
  • "At this stage we just don't know what the problem is," he said.
Wed, 10/26/2011 - 22:04 | 1815401 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hmm, Stuxnet or Skynet...flip a coin...

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:43 | 1815303 crazyjsmith
crazyjsmith's picture

Best headline of the day...We now move markets with HOPE!!

US Stocks Edge Up As Investors HOPE For European-Debt Solution

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:55 | 1814847 chump666
chump666's picture

wow! I have seen markets break, but this, this is something else.  Should shatter confidence for a few hrs once it's fixed, if it's fixed.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:29 | 1814988 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

A major stock index stops trading - period - for an undetermined amount of time.

That should instill a lot of confidence in the greatest ponzi ever!


Practice run, bitchez.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:44 | 1815036 chump666
chump666's picture's funny because it's true

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 22:03 | 1815396 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot??

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:41 | 1814777 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Gold is, and has always been, fully internationalized.  There is no country in the world where it cannot be traded for anything you might want or need.

Seems like the best thing you could advise these clients to do is start stacking.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:42 | 1814780 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

in china, properties don't sell anymore, trust me

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:43 | 1814784 chump666
chump666's picture

It's all Wenzhou going sub-prime meltdown style.  Plus the grey/black money markets imploding should take out most businesses, developments, insurance, banks etc etc etc.

Europe is old news.

Now China.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:47 | 1814789 Drunken Monkey
Drunken Monkey's picture

Their Kung Fu is good, but not good enough to save the Princess.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:45 | 1814795 doug79
doug79's picture

Hi China  Hey my house in Vancouver is for sale.  Great way to diversify.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 03:56 | 1816285 e-recep
e-recep's picture

Land is like gold. It's scarce and will never be as worthless as Citi shares.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:55 | 1814849 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

This is all bullshit--as if China is some American-style Ponzi scheme.  I am looking out of a downtown Beijing hotel room as I write, so I have "boots on the ground" here, too, Simon baby.

Yes, they are going through a property bubble bust.  Remember when silver was $50/oz?  Remember what happened next?  Same thing. Didthat destroy the PM market?  Uh, no.

The attitude here is: so what if some people lose money?  That's what happens when you speculate, remember?  The young people here are fucking dancing in the street about this--Simon Black is a moron.

The Chinese economy is a fucking colossus, and almost everything you read in the U.S. financial media about this place is wrong.  Let me put it this way: if you can't get rich trading with the Chinese, you really, really, really ought to find another line of work...

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:58 | 1814864 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Wow- you're up early then.... You're on a blog at 8am and not at work?


Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:40 | 1815283 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

Fuck you, asshole. This is work.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 23:52 | 1815903 Freddie
Freddie's picture

LOL! GE obsolete wind power technoiogy salesman Gordon got no dinky do boy last night so he no happy man.  You funny boy Gordon.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:01 | 1814876 Mark123
Mark123's picture is a dynamic place and people, but you would have said the same thing in the USA in the 1920's.  China has increased it's internal debt by about $3.5 trillion over the last couple of years to keep the party going.



Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:11 | 1814914 chump666
chump666's picture

China is a HUGE speculative time bomb and it's ready to blowup.  The only people buying China stocks is the Chinese goverment.

We are all watching China now. 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:13 | 1814924 chump666
chump666's picture

and Japan.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:45 | 1815041 chump666
chump666's picture

and India

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:41 | 1815030 jm
jm's picture

The Chinese conomy will be fine after some indigestion, but that doesn't make it a good place for investors.  Workers, politicians and bureaucrats have capital seignority on default recovery.  Creditors have next to none.  

Stay out.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 00:08 | 1815951 chump666
chump666's picture

and I repeat

"We are all watching China now."


Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:12 | 1814923 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yes, that is exactly what China is...a ponzi.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:17 | 1815161 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

ponzi was going to be the new walmart china car for just under 3k in the U S

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 23:13 | 1815738 Moon Pie
Moon Pie's picture

A near 3 million man army vs. a corrupt banking/legal system in the U.S. and U Rope?

I'm laying China +7 (months to total destruction from commencement of hostilities).

Over/Under 888 million people killed.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 04:19 | 1816313 malikai
malikai's picture

If that happens, you'll be part of the +/- 888 million killed, so the bet is worthless.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:14 | 1814930 bahaar
bahaar's picture

Ponzi can happen anywhere in the world.  In fact ponzis happen only when economy looks upbeat.  Everyone jumps in because no one wants to be left behind.  I don't know about China, but I know property prices have sky rocketed in India.  Price of two bedroom condo in a second tier city costs 10 times the average salary.  And underground economy is booming.  Apparently in Bangalore most poor people (maid-servants, house painters etc) hand over a chunk of money (probably borrowed fromt eh bank) to apartment owners who then lets them live rent free.  Obviously the owner of the apartment lends it out ( or hands it over to a pool) at much higher interest rate, most probably to developers.  Who then buildd and sells aprtements for yet higher price.  And then the owner of the new apartment charges a higher rent and some individual borrows fromt the bank and hands it over to the aprtment owner....


so to say that Indians and Chinese are savers, that they make hefty downpayment on housing and therefore there oculd be no ponzi is not correct.


Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:19 | 1814953 gringo28
gringo28's picture

According to Simon, all it takes is a few busted real estate deals and a BMW sale to destroy an entire country. He's an alarmist retard.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:29 | 1814989 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

I think you'd better have a word with Gordon Chang about that.

"A few busted real estate deals"? Half the office space in Shanghai is vacant.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:26 | 1814981 beatus12
beatus12's picture

china is one gigantic manufactured dolly,
controlled and manipulated by social
engineering, everything they say is
a total fabrication, why do you think
so many leave mainland

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 08:08 | 1816583 FatFingered
FatFingered's picture

That sounds really familiar.  Where else have I noticed that?  There is only one difference.  The social engineering here must be much better 'cause no one is leaving the mainland yet - SB aside.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:33 | 1814999 Bumblebee Tuna
Bumblebee Tuna's picture

Any system based on excessive fiat credit is a ponzi.  Doesn't matter what country it's in.

If you can prove that every property in China was bought with cash, then I'll bite my tongue, but if the property boom is backed by massive easy-money mortgages, like the US, then we can assume this story will play out the same.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 23:15 | 1815747 bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

LOL, it 100% IS backed by pure bullshit easy money whos brother works at the bank hokey pokey NINJA backroom shinanigans.  But probably 1000X worse.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:34 | 1815000 Ramboy
Ramboy's picture

What Chanos and anti-Chinese don't realize is that there aren't trillions in derivatives written against mortgages as were in Europe and US.  US real estate fell 35-40% in 1990 yet there wasn't a financial crisis back then just because therewere no derivatives trading on "YOUR" home.  

China WILL have a hard landing but it's not a soverign risk as it is rest of the world.


Derivatives are the time bomb.


Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:47 | 1815050 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Tail doesn't wag the dog, dude- excessive speculation and easy credit drove up real estate values, derivatives didn't "cause" any of this inflation- in fact, they probably helped pop the bubble before banks (or whatever fly-by-night called themself a "bank") loaned themselves even deeper.

Derivatives are the scorecard- they aren't the players.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:06 | 1815111 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

The development and trading of derivatives is what increased the bankster demand for so many more mortgages than the US could afford.  That's why the loans which enabled the speculation were made in the first place.

In other words: there was definitely plenty of "cause" from derivatives.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:55 | 1815075 alex_g
alex_g's picture

Paying stupid prices for real estate that is unoccupied is the time bomb...

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 23:14 | 1815742 bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

The only people directly exposed to the Trillion dollars derivatives market are the BANKS.  USA banking system exploding like a dieing star will cause some problems for... a week at max.  A 50% correction in housing prices in China??? Muahahahahhaha, muuuuuch worse.  Chinese walking away from multi million dollar loans?? Like SOLYNDRA?? LMAO.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:40 | 1815105 crazyjsmith
crazyjsmith's picture

To Gordon Freemen up there...
I have heard that same crappy argument from the majority of most Ivy League educated economists just before our very own RE bubble burst here in the US.

1. "It's only a subprime problem, it won't hurt the other aspects of the economy..." FAIL
2. "It will be a soft landing..." FAIL
3. "Real Estate is a regional play, we're very unlikely to see a Nationwide real estate bubble" FAIL
4. You "So what if some people lose money, Only speculators lose" FAIL

And as your last statement goes...

Trading with the Chinese has nothing to do with their housing market. You may be making money trading with the Chinese, that doesn't make you a Real Esate expert.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 22:01 | 1815389 DaBernank
DaBernank's picture

NASDAQ 1998 was a fucking colossus too.

Beijing is the 1%, go west and hit some small towns.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 04:59 | 1816336 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

When I started talking to the Chinese about marketing in 1998 they knew little and were very dishonest. But by the time I did some major research for a cruise company six years later they were polite, honest and bright.

God bless you over there China as you adjust. We all have a heavy burden. Lets not freak out in fear. Time to share and be wise stewards of capital.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:56 | 1814852 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

Where did money go?


NEW YORK (AP) -- Stock indexes finished higher Wednesday following reports that China will come to the aid of Europe by investing in a financial rescue fund.

Agence France-Presse reported that China has agreed to invest in Europe's financial rescue fund, which will be used to support struggling countries and banks in the European Union. The Dow Jones industrial average jumped more than 100 points after the report came out in the early afternoon.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:00 | 1814875 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Yep- China is gonna write 'em a check for $7 Quadrillion- their currency printers are firing up as we speak.....

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:57 | 1814860 Mark123
Mark123's picture

Bullish...Chinese will buy US stocks and real estate.


Also bullish if this does not pan out since China will drag the rest of the world along to financial utopia.


There are lots of other bullish can see them everywhere.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:04 | 1814880 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Which US stocks- specifically- does China own? What r/e holdings?


They own DEBT, dude- US Treasuries.

Good luck with those promises.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:59 | 1814868 Darth Sidious
Darth Sidious's picture

i was wondering when this website was going to get off the europe noise and get to the real story jeapordizing the world economy

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 05:04 | 1816338 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Darth, the trade is reversing. Suffering is nothing to celebrate. Far too many dirty people that had to wake up.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 19:59 | 1814869 Mactheknife
Mactheknife's picture

Speaking of blowing up...check out what is going on at MF Global one of the biggest Hedge Funds around...ugly, and this could spread.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:31 | 1814994 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

First New Jersey, then MF Global. Everything Jon Goldman Corzine touches turns to crap.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:44 | 1815309 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

No shit!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 05:05 | 1816339 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Imminent. Gold gone way up too many golden toilets. Flush.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:02 | 1814878 notaFerengi
Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:10 | 1814910 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Wow, that's a sign of how bad it truly is.... China will just look at him sideways when he won't collateralize the loan with half of the EU real estate....

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:07 | 1814899 JustACitizen
JustACitizen's picture

Hey - it's all good. Buy a house in an expensive neighborhood of  the US of A - get a Green Card...this deal will pass Congress faster than a "job creatin' free trade agreement".

The wealthy Chinese can diversify geographically - the property values amongst the well to do are supported - what's not to like?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:20 | 1814958 bahaar
bahaar's picture

Wealthy Chinese have been diversifying for the last 3 years  Just look at Craigs list under Shanghai or Beijing.  The other thing they do is send their children over to the West.  US universities are full of Chinese/Indians. 


So  this Requim to the West is overdone.  Americans don't understand the value of America.  Rest of the world does.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 01:48 | 1816091 LeZinc
LeZinc's picture

Your statement is quite naive. The rest of the world does, indeed, understand the value of America. If the rest of the world is exclusively of the 1% of officials and fortunes, yes they send their sons and daughters to your Ivy Leagues for their prestige (US Ivy Leagues still enjoy a great reputation abroad) and to show off back home how rich they are. Other than that, let's see...

No universal health care, outrageous health care costs, outrageous health care insurance costs

Low quality public school (downright dangerous even, in some places) and very expensive private schools

Unhealthy food and gov. makes it challenging to access quality/healthy/non-agribusine$$ food

Sky-high criminality, impressive dead-count every month of violent crimes

Armed population (regardless of mental health or moral value, anybody can get a gun, at low-cost too)

Highest rate of emprisonment in the world, highly policed country

Predatory financial system

Dangerously $$$-biaised justice system (sued? hope you have money!)

American people in general are great people. BTW, they have the reputation of being particularly naive too, as you seem to be, but good people nontheless, better be naive than evil, that's for sure. America used to be a great country to be in when its people actually owned their own country. It used to be a popular destination of choice, used to be a brain-magnet too. But there are much more socially comfortable societies to live in elsewhere in the world nowadays. Ever heard of the Gross National Happiness?

So unless you are really, really very desperate in your own country (as in you can't possibly feed yourself) or you're a student who's parents have stashes of ill-gotten $$$ in Swiss and WS banks, or you believe in what you get shoved in your brain by Hollywood at your local movie theater, voluntarily come and live in America? I don't think so. Not at this day and age.

If you're really honest and set aside plain, emotional nationalism, you can pretty much find at least a dozen countries in the world with more attractive quality of life. I suspect, with this economic crises, we'll actually see american people trying to find other places for their family to live in.

Edited to add:

Of course, if you are a USA creditor, you might want to visit and get what you are owed... Maybe in that sense, the US will be soon (in the years coming) a very popular destination.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 05:27 | 1816352 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Thats fair LeZinc. Keep bring more money here as creditors collect. I like it. The world needs a clarified value system and legal framework but as we decentralize for the time being the police state shit has gotta go.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 05:21 | 1816347 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Bahaar. Thanks for the compliment. The money is here in America and Chinese and Indians want to invest. More Indians at this time and smart money too. Some drinks together discussing world history and the high times to come doesn't exactly suck :) They need some help on Interbank transfers so bankers get busy innovating something real toward the demand like NOW.

It doesn't take much to reach out and get seed funds and deploy it. Government must set the rules and leave it alone. New wave of micro companies which is good. I have a cool tool coming for a utility for research. When I see investors on the ZH board bemoaning the lack of market necessities slapping us all in the face its time to kick it up a notch and multiply pennies.

Here's my number 603-953-3388. I'll split it with ZH so they can do some research and deployment too.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:23 | 1814968 caerus
caerus's picture

i thought simon was in mongolia

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:11 | 1815131 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Sovereign Man is always there when you need him, wherever 'there' may be!

- Thank You Sovereign Man -

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 22:17 | 1815469 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

ROTFL!  Look, up in the sky... :>D

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:28 | 1814987 Zeff
Zeff's picture

Just check the most richest people in China, they'r all related to real estate. When it falls, domino effect is imminent.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:49 | 1815052 chump666
chump666's picture

read this:

"With more than $16 million in debts she had no hope of repaying, Zheng Zhuju did what scores of other business owners in the eastern Chinese city of Wenzhou have done in recent months -- run away"

from here:


Thu, 10/27/2011 - 04:05 | 1816299 e-recep
e-recep's picture

Yeah, but the factories won't come back.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:29 | 1814990 sabra1
sabra1's picture

they all found out you can buy house for only $100 in the US. a whole town for what, $1500?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:33 | 1815003 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Why spend $1500 on some squatty little town when you can buy all of Congress for a few dollars more?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:41 | 1815007 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

Sorry but the video of Yue Yue being run over by not one, but two trucks, a toddler lying bleeding in the roadway passed by not one but 18 people, is probably the most disturbing thing I've ever seen. I couldn't watch it without balling.

China is a short stone's through from the Cultural Revolution, the Japanese Occupation, Civil War, the overthrow of an Emperor and occupation by the Colonial Powers of the day. While the culture may be venerable from a longer time horizon, in the span of lifetimes it is highly dysfunctional. During the Korean War conscripts were sent against American armor without training or proper weapons. They were, as we say, cannon fodder.

Anyone who believes that country can morph into the world leader over the next ten to twenty years has his or her head so far inserted into their rectum that any argument at that point is completely moot.

In 100 to 200 years, possibly if things go well. We have a terrible time looking forward and the only thing that most acknowledge are growth rates of GDP 10% +. This was only achieved in concert with American deficit spending. Those days are for the most part over. If you look at that video of a baby girl lying dying in the street while passersby politely walk around her broken agony, you are looking into the abyss. Better to say a prayer for the Chinese because it looks more proabable that they are about to be consumed from inside out.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:53 | 1815067 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

About a year ago everyone at zerohedge was saying china is taking over and the usa was circling the toilet.

I was one of the few dissenters.

China will implode long before the usa does, even the chinese government knows that. They attempt tight control of the citizenry because they know their system is unstable and their people dont trust them. One spark in the right place and the powderkeg explodes.

The chinese government has long feared a riot getting out of hand a la arab spring. That is why they censor the term and wont even cover OWS.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:37 | 1815264 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

It seems to me that ZH has many experts on China economic and financial affairs. I just wonder where they're getting all that info from. Do they have official or unofficial sources from within China? Or it's just their feelings.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:43 | 1815302 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

Then why are you so bullish on Brazil?  If China implodes, Brazil will be screwed.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 05:24 | 1816349 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

What scares me is that they may morph into a world leader and at the same time still possess and espouse the values that watched that little girl bleed to death in the street and those conscripts get mowed down in human wave attacks.  The "Christian charity and compassion" theme that occasionally makes itself known in the Western world is not one of the prerequisites to global power.  Ask the Soviets.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:38 | 1815020 deebee
deebee's picture

ASX Trade Halted

The equity market has been halted due to a technical issue with the ASX Trade system this morning. ASX is currently investigating and will seek to resolve the issue as soon as possible. Further updates will be provided as information becomes available


Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:42 | 1815031 Ku
Ku's picture

yeah what a bloody pain that is, being option expiry and all.


Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:39 | 1815024 Ku
Ku's picture

yeah yeah, I heard Jim Chanos call China the ''united states of madoff" bit of a laugh. haha

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:57 | 1815080 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

CHINA is the biggest ponzi the world has ever seen. Their primitive, poorly educated aparatchiks just recently figured out they werent buying their freedom with mercantilist trade policy, but embedding themselves deeper into the dollar economy, which we own...buwahahahaha!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:25 | 1815181 shortus cynicus
shortus cynicus's picture

Armstrong actually stated, that their central bankers are traders - not PhD academics like in western nations.

And political elite are engineers.


Wed, 10/26/2011 - 22:20 | 1815482 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hmm, Br'er Rabbit and the Tar Baby...

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:51 | 1815064 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Your being played as a fiddle, the low IQ's running the media information asylum think they can consolidate a large chunk of reforms under new fear tactics.

Chinese officials on US currency Bill CCTV News

68% Find Prices Too High
" On July 4, People's Bank of China (PBC) released
its Q2 survey report, indicating 68.2% of the people
think prices are higher than acceptable,
with 1.3% increase from the figure of Q1.
For example, pork price has increased sharply,
causing strong dissatisfaction among people.
PBC officials point out that the government deficit
is the root cause of the inflation.
Chinese and overseas economists are concerned
about the danger of Chinese economy collapse."

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:54 | 1815069 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

I can't believe they put that video of that little girl out there for everyone to see. I could not watch it. We are bankrupt and they are morally bankrupt. We are both fucked. From the movie "Se7en" Ernest Hemingway once wrote "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for." I agree with the second part

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:58 | 1815375 Kinskian
Kinskian's picture

Hemingway eventually had a change of heart and put a gun in his mouth.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 22:21 | 1815488 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The World is a fine place, Humanity on the other hand...

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:13 | 1815141 htp
htp's picture

People should have learned by now not to trust those numbers released by the National Bureau of Statistics.

That angry mob in Shanghai was not arrested by police. That's a give away. It's all a show.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:13 | 1815142 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

A lost time in american history,... coming to a neighborhood near you?

Wilson thought Lincoln's civil war-time measures weren't radical enough,... therefore we got "Wilson's Propaganda Machine & the '4 Minute Men' -

 habius corpus suspended, and freedom of speech gone,...


Wilson - the same brain-dead president that brought us the FRB System / 1st Personal Income Tax, and brought us into WWI

my,... how times have changed from when china was nothing more than a not so hard-rock to crack with a formidable 1,400 mile n. china wall of worry,...                                                       

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:21 | 1815164 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

American RE Scams were contagious...wait 'till Mao passes the a "house stimulus plan tax credit" handing buyers a 50,000 Yuan give-away to anyone who buys a Box.

I wonder if the Chinese felons will be as "ambitious" as the USA prisoners who claimed their very own tax credit rebates on houses that don't exist.

BTW, Does the NAR have a Shanghai Branch Office? if they do, I'm sure they're yelling, "there's never been a better time to buy."


Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:27 | 1815192 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

China has big problems coming, big problems.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:32 | 1815228 msmith
msmith's picture

China's slowdown will eventual have a huge impact on the US and will boost the USD as a safe haven in the weeks and months ahead.  However, equities are likely headed higher in the days ahead.  The USD continues to look bearish in the short term, which should push the ES and SPX higher.  The AUDUSD has room to run higher while the USDCAD seems to be headed lower.  The USD remains bearish.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:35 | 1815250 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

"Every Bubble eventually meet Pin."


Confucious say

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 21:52 | 1815340 FranSix
FranSix's picture

So they depeg the Yuan, just like the Thai Bhat in 1997?  Hein?

I wonder if they can say:  'Shrivel Up'

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 03:14 | 1816247 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

Good news for copper shorts

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