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Guest Post: Breaking The Silver Manipulation Barrier

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Brandon Smith of Alt Market

Breaking The Silver Manipulation Barrier

In 2011, so far gold has been the champion investment above and beyond any contender, including stocks and equities. At the announcement of the S&P downgrade of America’s credit rating, only gold showcased immunity. In fact, gold has thrived (as we predicted) in the face of any potential economic threat, from deflation in stocks, to inflation of fiat currencies. Some may wonder, though, where silver has been while its big brother is flexing its investment muscle? While traditionally, silver tends to follow market surges in gold, the past eight months have been rather confusing for the cheaper metal. Admittedly, silver has performed far beyond the predictions of slow witted mainstream skeptics, but it still has not come anywhere near its true potential, especially in light of gold’s incredible strides. Many may be wondering how it was possible for gold to stampede into the $1800 an ounce range after the downgrade while silver stayed completely static at around $40 an ounce. The behavior of commodities markets has been, indeed, very strange…

The common assertion by MSM pundits is that because silver has a larger industrial market than gold, silver is affected more negatively when stocks decline. This is absurd logic. Silver is still very much an alternative currency and just as much a hedge against market instability as gold is. All told, silver should actually be MORE apt to increase during economic uncertainty than gold, because of its wider industrial usage and subsequent decreasing supply. The “utility argument” for decreasing silver values just doesn’t fly.

As many are well aware, silver is a much smaller market than gold, with fewer primary players in control of tighter trade. Most of us are also well aware that one of these players, JP Morgan Chase, was exposed as a massive silver manipulator in 2010 by commodities trader Andrew Maguire. Gold and silver investors have been demanding a Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) investigation of such manipulation for decades. These demands fell on deaf ears, and claimants were quickly disregarded as “conspiracy theorists”. Issuers of ETFs (paper silver or gold) have long circulated silver equities supposedly backed by real metal, but when investors began to notice that the amount of paper issued far surpassed the amount of real silver in actual circulation, the scale of the manipulation in progress became quite clear. Global banks were purposely driving down the value of silver by creating the illusion that there is a greater silver supply than there actually is. JP Morgan has also been caught red handed initiating coordinated naked short selling of silver equities as a way to fool average investors into believing that demand for the metal is falling.

With the Maguire revelation, the hope was that the CFTC would finally do their job and take market manipulation seriously. So far, they have not. Maguire’s evidence and testimony have been ignored, investigations were limited to a few pointless committee hearings, and the global bank ETF fraud continues.

Another snake in the grass when it comes to precious metals investment is the COMEX itself. The COMEX is not a free market by any means of the term. It is in fact a highly micromanaged exchange owned and operated by an organization called the CME Group based out of Chicago. CME is the preeminent hand in the flow of trade in all commodities (at least until recently). Their main method for stifling the rise in metals is the use of “margin hikes”. Buying silver equities “on margin” allows investors to borrow capital from a company with a certain percentage of their own cash as collateral, in order to get more silver than they would using their personal funds alone. When the silver margin sits at 50%, for example, an investor with $10,000 can borrow from the company to buy $20,000 worth of securities (ETFs). However, if the CME increases the margin from 50% to 75%, that investor will have to quickly increase his collateral by 25% or lower his silver holdings. CME has the ability to make these changes at will, and such margin hikes have the ability to trigger massive sell-offs in metals, especially silver. In May of this year, as silver edged towards $50 an ounce, CME hiked margins four times! Three times in the span of only seven days! Investors scrambled to unload their ETF’s, which they could no longer afford to collateralize, and silver’s price plummeted to around $30 an ounce.

The CME (and the idiots who defend the CME) often claim that they must raise margins aggressively in order to offset market volatility caused by “speculators”. Strangely, though, there was NO VOLATILITY in silver markets in May. Not until the CME actually increased margins, creating an engineered dump of equities. This forced reduction in silver prices also greatly benefits consistent short selling manipulators like JP Morgan and HSBC, but that’s just a coincidence, I’m sure.

Obviously, someone out there does not like the idea of silver crossing the historic $50 an ounce mark…

So, the next logical question is; how long will this manipulation go on, and how can we fight back? The keys to the end of commodities manipulation may already be in play, while methods for combating centralized control of metals are increasing. Here’s why…

China Competes With The Comex

As of this summer China now has its own Comex, called the Hong Kong Mercantile Exchange. The exchange opened for trade on May 18th (the CME’s incredible margin hikes in silver began only weeks before, which suggests to me that they were trying to preempt the positive effects the HKMEX would have on metals). The HKMEX moved into action only five months after the Chinese Pan American Gold Exchange was instituted. The exchange issues its own ETF’s in gold and silver. These securities, though, are not based on leverage or derivatives like most Comex based ETFs. The bottom line; the Comex global monopoly on commodities trade is over:

This would explain gold’s unstoppable expansion into the $1800 range, and how silver was able to climb back after the CME’s brutal margin manipulation into the $40 range. Only last week, the CME issued a margin hike on gold of 22%. Despite this the fall in gold was minimal, showing that their influence, though vast, is beginning to wane. With competition, manipulation becomes more difficult, and room for growth is created.

The new Hong Kong Exchange coupled with the now explosive buying of physical PM’s by Chinese consumers is slowly but surely overriding the long prevailing manipulations of corporate robber barons intent on ensuring gold and silver are never treated as a currency alternative to the dollar. Silver markets in the East were set into motion a bit more slowly than gold markets were, but given a little more time, I suspect that the resultant spike in silver prices will be the same.

Global Silver Investment Growing

World investment in silver rose by an impressive 40% in 2010 and industrial use increased by 12%, while global supply from mining production only increased by 5%. Growth of demand severely outweighs the growth of supply. After the opening of the HKMEX, China rushed into silver markets. The CME margin hikes that caused the substantial drop in silver spot price in May only served to create a buying opportunity for those investors smart enough to see the writing on the wall. After the S&P downgrade of the U.S. AAA credit rating, silver values did not skyrocket like gold’s, but in the face of extensive manipulation attempts by the CME and major banks, silver’s steadfast hold to its current prices says quite a bit about is resiliency.

One very important factor to consider is that silver is the common man’s currency, and has been for thousands of years. Both gold and silver are solid hedges against financial crisis, especially inflation. However, silver retains more accessibility. As gold continues its climb into the thousands of dollars per ounce, silver will become more appealing to those of us who want to protect our savings, but can’t afford gold. Being that the economic crisis we currently face is unfolding in almost every nation, the demand for a safe haven will increase exponentially. It is only a matter of time before silver is engulfed by an enormous surge of buyers.

With the Federal Reserve continuing to print progressively devaluing dollars, the European Central Bank announcing its own TARP measures, and China in the midst of a full-on inflationary battle royale, national currencies are undoubtedly losing market favor. Gold’s price will soon become unreachable for common people, but silver will be there to fill the void.

How To Break The Barrier

Methods for smaller investors to fight back against the market manipulations of large banks have been sparse, and often limited to desperate appeals to the CFTC and the government, who are bought and paid for, and who have no intention of ever stopping global financiers from dragging their unwashed behinds across the face of the planet. Relying on bureaucrats to mend the wounds they themselves encouraged or inflicted is foolhardy, to say the least. Top down solutions are NOT an option now, and I’m not sure if they ever were. This leaves us with only one other choice; to fix the problem with our own hands from the bottom up. This is, of course, easier said than done…

In the case of silver manipulation, what we are faced with is an unprecedented effort to subvert and suppress an alternative system so that the mainstream system can continue to assert control over our financial lives. To effectively confront this issue, we must first end our reliance of the mainstream system. The longer we continue to participate in the fraud, the longer it will go on. Here are just a few strategies for decoupling, and walking away from the rigged game…

1) End The ETF Casino: If you play the ETF lottery, for god sakes, STOP! You are only perpetuating the con-game that is paper silver. While the allure of speed of light silver trade can be overwhelming, the bottom line is that even though you may think you have the market right where you want it, you don’t. ETFs are an amazing rip off. Trade fees can nickel and dime smaller traders to death. ETFs being held, even without trade, lose value through numerous surcharges as companies nibble away at your holdings. Most ETFs also will NOT allow you to take physical delivery of silver when cashing out your equities unless you have extensive holdings, and even then, it may take months for the silver to reach your doorstep. Because banks issue ETFs for silver they don’t actually have, they would never allow you to exchange them for physical if they can help it. Otherwise, the scam would be exposed, and they would be out of business.

Playing the margins is shear stupidity when you realize that global banks are hell bent on suppressing silver values. There is no rhyme or reason to silver ETFs and margin hikes beyond the whims of corporate puppeteers. Mainstream analysts can pretend as if there is a hard science to this brand of investment, but in reality, it is a large and very expensive joke. Unless you have a crystal ball, your only other tactic for discerning when to sell is pure luck. The very idea of the CME being able to control the price of physical by hiking the margins of paper securities that represent silver that doesn’t even exist is a farce beyond reckoning.

Buy physical, not paper. Be a part of the solution, not part of the problem.

2) Vault Storage Depositories: If you aren’t a buy and hold investor, and insist on participating in short term selling strategies, there is an effective (and smarter) alternative to ETFs and the fake paper market. Silver and gold vault storage depositories allow you to buy and store large quantities of physical metal while having the option of liquidating your holdings for cash just as quickly as if you were selling ETFs. Depositories do not charge hidden fees and do not reduce your silver holdings while they are in the vault. What you put in is what you get back. Period.

Because your silver is already sitting in their vault, a mere phone call allows you to liquidate a portion or all of your stock into cash whenever you wish, just like ETFs, but without the fraud. On top of this, depositories will deliver any or all of your silver or gold on demand to your doorstep, usually within 48 hours. If a sizable number of silver investors switched from ETFs to vault depositories, the ETF market would crumble, and market manipulation would end.

3) Encourage Physical Trade: Max Keiser’s ‘Crash JP Morgan’ campaign was an excellent first step in encouraging silver investment by showing average Americans that they can hurt the big banks simply by purchasing something they don’t want you to have. The next logical step would be to, of course, encourage larger ETF investors to demand physical delivery on their holdings by showing them the folly of the market itself, and, to encourage average investors to actually utilize the silver they buy not just to crash the banks, but for organized trade.

The construction of silver based barter markets must become a priority. Owning silver is not enough. We must start to use it in place of dollars if we are to have any control over our own economy. Barter efforts like this are becoming much more common, but we are still a far cry from full scale utilization of alternative currencies. With the implosion of

the dollar, it will only be a matter of time before metals take primacy as a means of trade, so why not get a head start now? Eventually, the increased circulation of physical will allow the free market to determine the natural value of silver and gold, instead of the subjugated paper market, until finally, the mainstream spot price is completely irrelevant.

4) Offer Incentives: For business owners or for those who are involved in private barter, offering incentives to those who pay in physical would encourage more silver investment, and by extension, more silver circulation as a currency. Add a certain percentage above spot price for silver trade, or, offer a discount on goods or services to those who pay in silver. Businesses, for that matter, could very well give their employees the option of being paid in silver, completing the currency circle and the flow of commerce. The more silver is used day to day, the harder it is for banks to control, and the more its value will rise.

All economies larger than a small village need a unit of trade beyond the barter of goods and services. They also need a unit of trade that maintains its value and buying power, instead of devaluing, inflating, and destroying the savings of those who hold it. Precious metals are the only existing option that can take on this role, and silver is the most attainable for average people. There is a reason why MSM analysts and establishment economists have been trying to crush interest in PM’s for years. There is a reason why global banks have gone out of their way to suppress the market values of metals. The second Americans realize there are other choices, other systems for living and working beyond the controlled paradigm we have been handed, the illusion slips away, and centralization becomes a memory. This is true for all aspects of economic structure, social structure, and political structure, not just for silver or gold. Ultimately, though, we have to start somewhere, and silver is as good a place as any.


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Mon, 08/15/2011 - 10:52 | 1561486 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Silver has caught a serious bid today, and so has oil.  The dollar flails around like a senile old man yelling about how Bernanke studied the great Depression.  It is somewhat forgotten as to what monie is, even by such bright minds as Webster Griffin Tarpley, among others.  The end result is inevitable:  precious metal is monie, and it will be used as such soon.  It stores wealth, and nothing else does, except land, and land ownership might be fun, but you will never own the land, the land owns you.  So to protect yourself, and fight the establishment, buy silver.  Its time is due.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 10:54 | 1561499 Dry Drunk
Dry Drunk's picture

Keep to your platitudes, Judas. You are a Hawk.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:25 | 1561557 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Shut the fuck up.  You don't know me.  You don't know my motives.  Shit, you don't even know if I have any.  Get fucked.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:38 | 1561652 Whizbang
Whizbang's picture


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 15:05 | 1562573 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:22 | 1561594 gtb
gtb's picture

There are mean drunks and stupid drunks.  Pretty clear you're one of the stupid ones.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:53 | 1561712 Chicken_Little
Chicken_Little's picture

Appears the dumb asses come out posting first in a very good topic and maybe ruin a very good thread of people that could add to the author's opinion.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:00 | 1561949 Dental Floss Tycoon
Dental Floss Tycoon's picture

Actually dry drunks are worse than mean drunks or stupid drunks.  Never met a dry drunk that wasn't 100 percent asshole.  He just needs to keep going to meetings and work his program otherwise he will stay fucked up.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 15:43 | 1562699 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

And for everyone else is the other program.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 16:53 | 1562949 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

...dry drunks are worse...

That's very true.  Untreated alcoholism results in a very disagreeable personality.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:47 | 1563496 knukles
knukles's picture

A dry drunk is an alkie who no longer drinks but has experienced no change in mental conditions whatsoever, still thinking and acting like the practicing alcoholic.... generally astoundingly angry, ungrateful, hostile, egotistical, immature and impolite.  In short, unbearable, but thinking himself as a wonderous gift to mankind as he's no longer consuming.  Fucking nightmares.  (I've had the unfortunate experience.)    Guess the difference comes down to the dry drunk has enough energy and stamina that without the passing out is an asshole with his disease spreading misery to all comers 24/7/365.  At least the practicing alky in incapacitated a goodly portion of the day.
Both are bad juju.  No heaven, just hell on earth.

Tue, 08/16/2011 - 23:35 | 1567825 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Yeah, I know.  Seen plenty.   20 years FOB last April.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 10:58 | 1561511 B9K9
B9K9's picture

Gwar5 posted up an excellent link in the Quinn post with regards to financial repression:

Here's my reply:

Gwar, hopefully you'll see this comment: Yes, yes, and finally, one more time, yes! Financial repression is just another term to describe the various processes by which the core objective, continuity of government (COG), will be achieved.

I have repeatedly said that bankers don't control the federal government, it's the federal government that controls bankers. Oh sure, they're highly compensated in their role of facilitating empire, but it's merely a historical accident that this function was outsourced. A parallel construct, the MIC, represents a more traditional approach with its quasi-private/public form of organization.

So all serve to keep the great beast alive. It's both naive & absurd to believe that this country operates under any form of constitutional restraint. This is where brilliant analysts & writers like Quinn, Denninger, Mish, Stoneleigh, et al fail: they appear to believe (a) markets 'work'; and (b) it's immoral  to manipulate markets (and impossible to maintain for long) to serve other, unstated ends.

Wrong, wrong & wrong! There is no immorality (eg starving seniors) when the objective of 'saving the system' aka the "American Way of Life" is the "noble" objective. Casualties are always inflicted to preserve the greater good, and during this cycle, it's the oldsters who are going to bite the bullet. To believe Bernanke has trouble sleeping is to believe Patton had trouble sleeping - both rationalize the deaths under their watch as a necessary bi-product of the ultimate goal.

The debt will be inflated away. Savers will be crushed. Controls will be instituted. And there will be no way to exit the system. The only way out is if/when the whole shabang comes down, and that might be prove to be more painful than the existing status quo.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:22 | 1561817 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

The banksters and politicians are all part of the kleptocratic class.  The banksters own the politicos because once they take graft they are easily blackmailed.  So it is more of a symbiotic union where both groups agree to just feed of the host of the citizenry without killing one another until the host dies.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:45 | 1562191 shortus cynicus
shortus cynicus's picture

All deflationists assume some rules and derive the future vision from them.

But sad reality is, that any rules became void and overridden if it became serious.

FOFOA got it right: in terminal crisis currency will be sacrificed to save "the system" - people in power. Once in power, always in power. That is the goal.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:14 | 1561567 Frog-And-Toad
Frog-And-Toad's picture

If you do own SLV, is there a way to demand delivery on the shares that you own?


I have been researching this, and found that only "baskets" of 10,000 shares can be delivered, which seems absurd.  I have about 1,000 shares right now, and I would like to take possession.  Anyone know how to go about this?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:29 | 1561621 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Only the five largest shareholders will be paid in physiacl if demanded.  Switch to Sprott (PSLV) or buy the coins.  I prefer the latter.  It is nice having it around.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:41 | 1561663 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

AKA, "Authorized Participants."

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:45 | 1561687 Manthong
Manthong's picture

You will never see a grain of metal out of SLV.

You need to amass 50,000 (units, I believe, but maybe oz.) to redeem from Sprott. 

I never expect to see any metal from either, but I am figuring that the PSLV is the least risky place to park paper that I cannot convert to physical inasmuch as I want that paper to follow the price moves of Ag for later conversion.

PHYS (Sprott Au) has been a good place to be for me as well. 

SLV is for trading risk assets in order to take the profits and convert to physical.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:00 | 1561948 Chicken_Little
Chicken_Little's picture

Check out James Turk's I know for a fact that anyone having gold with him can demand delivery in cash or LBMA good delivery bars or even 1KG bars AT ANY TIME.  I know of a friend that has 90% of a full pallet of silver in a Viamat vault in Hong Kong (full silver pallet=30 1000 ounce silver bars). He said that your gold will let you sleep at night and your silver will make you rich. There are only a handful of reliable PM companies you can trust if (when) the global SHTF. In the UK, the best one is and Adrain Ash previously of is involved in it. These are my top 2 picks for PM buying because these are the only 2 that the gloom and doom gold bugs haven't said a bad word about. Because I have a considerable amount in one of the 2, I can say that one is okay. Sprott is not one of them.


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:18 | 1562056 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Hmm. I have to look into that.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 16:11 | 1562215 Manthong
Manthong's picture

The ETF's gives exposure for tax deferred assets and participation without the complications of reporting foreign ownership.

For physical ownership, right now, I prefer my own custody.

I do not believe that Ash or Turk would have anything detrimental to say about a Sprott position.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:34 | 1561638 Nage42
Nage42's picture

You read the PROSPECTUS...
It states how you take ownership and even how to convert physical into *poof-its-gone* SLV.

If you're dealing with a reliable broker, they'd had better be providing it to you... and I'm sorry, but isn't it silly to purchase ETFs without knowing the nitty-gritty (like is it leveraged, what's their ratio, any encumbering, blah blah), which is usually creatively hidden in the prospectus. I'm feeling reasonably benign today, to boil it down, you need to be a "registered entity" to take custody without breaking the "good delivery" chain, or go via a physical broker that can do this for you (read: no hope in hell they'll bother with you small-fry). I might be having a brain-fart, but I though the SLV->Phys was 50K but Phys->SLV was 10K. /meh I stopped smoking paper back in March.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:48 | 1561698 Frog-And-Toad
Frog-And-Toad's picture

I just graduated last year, and I have been harping on the PM horn for about 4 years now.  I wish I had the capital I have not, back then, but all well.  I was playing the options game with SLV, and actually bought some shares prior to researching how the ETF was leveraged.  I assumed (ass out of you and me I know) that each share was backed by a paper stock (haha).  I was naive when I first got in, and am now trying to see if I can convert these paper stocks for a bar or two.  

So it appears that I will need to have about 10,000 shares to even think about demanding delivery?  Don't think I've built up that much capital, but I have started purchasing 100oz bars in the past week.  I am just trying to figure this out before spot goes over $50 in the next month and a half.  

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:49 | 1561900 clymer
clymer's picture

Dude, if you just graduated and are buying 100oz bar('s - plural)


..I'd say you're way ahead of the curve. Keep waking people up, and prep yourself for becoming a leader in some harsh times to come

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 15:21 | 1562636 Nage42
Nage42's picture

Hmm. Well, be careful out there kids. During the "waking people up" you don't want to make it too hard of a sell in the sense of telling people that you've bought gold/silver. Unfortunately they are unlikely to follow your advice, but you can bet your left ballsack they'll remember you bought it when SHTF and they'll thank you for your forward thinking with a crowbar to back of skull and leg'it...

Kung fu baby, they need to snatch the pebble from the hand before they can learn the true secrets. OK, mystical-mode-off: Don't tell people you've bought, allow them to find it for themselves -- keep yourself safe.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 15:54 | 1562738 Frog-And-Toad
Frog-And-Toad's picture

I just bought two of them.  Made some serious fiatcos by shorting Netflix when it hit 300/share.  Used the fiatcos to purchase a couple of bars, but I'd love to have more.  It has been a frustrating 4 years so far, but people are beginning to listen to me, especially buddies that were too young to think politics effected them directly.  As they cannot find jobs, they are very open to the concept that the system is fucked right now.  I can't tell you how many of my friends have (after ridiculing me for being a Ron Paul supporter since 2007) come to me and apologized and said I was right.  The message of liberty is gaining traction, and there's nothing these power-hungry pompous assholes can do to stop it.  In about 20 years, a true leader will be someone who can provide just enough oversight to let people follow their dreams.  If they fail, they have only themselves to blaim.  

Thanks for the support! 

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 21:05 | 1563642 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Switched from SLV to bullion, by way of $, recently. 5,000 Oz/shares = 1 "basket" redeemable in silver. Of course, when TSHTF and the brokers are overwhelmed with sell orders, only the high rollers will get metal...everyone else will be left holding a bag of air.  

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:13 | 1561767 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I sit and look at your post. 1000 peices of paper written in crayon "Silver" did Crayola have Silver at one time for a color?


There HAS to be some way to offload that paper onto some other CHUMP and move your proceeds elsewhere.


1000 ASE Shares = 2 Monster Crates delivered. round 42 thousand and change today cash.

That for you friend is a once in a life time oppertunity. Do it.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:50 | 1561908 fallout11
fallout11's picture

Crayola did indeed once have a "silver" (and a "gold") crayon, at least they did in the 70's and 80's. They came in the larger sized (more colors) boxes.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:44 | 1561884 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

1. Sell your shares for cash

2. Take cash to silver dealer

3. Buy physical silver

4. Profit!!!

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 16:58 | 1562975 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Nice 4-step recovery program for SLVaholics!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:00 | 1563129 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Very funny stuff. Sell fake in order to buy real.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 21:08 | 1563645 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Thas' whut I did. And Mr. JPM broker was highly resistent. When silver hits $70, JPM is long gone.

Tue, 08/16/2011 - 01:11 | 1564277 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Hope you are right. Bet you are not. They are pernicious.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 14:08 | 1562289 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Just sell your shares and buy your silver on the same day. You do not have to buy your silver from the same place you bought your shares.

You should get practically the same amount of silver anyway.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:30 | 1561624 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

see you @ gold: 1100 and silver @ 25 in 6 months time.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:36 | 1561645 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Any reasoning to back up your statement?

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 15:08 | 1569889 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It's a prayer.  Reasoning has no part in it.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:36 | 1561648 Nage42
Nage42's picture

So you'd like to write that up in a contract that we will both honor in 6 months time? Or is this what internet warriors refer to as ... masturba^H^H^H^H^Hspeculation?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:39 | 1561657 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Enjoy your life as roadkill.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:40 | 1561660 fuu
fuu's picture


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:40 | 1561662 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

In other words I sit in my dorm room with 0 ounces.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:42 | 1561674 Rynak
Rynak's picture

The current moderation system on ZH is a bit annoying.... first, we had the junk system - it didn't really achieve much, but at least you could let of agression on the regular trolls..... then for a short time we had ratings..... which actually did have an effect, since you could set a threshold for how many "junk" of a post you tolerate..... we have.....  just frustration and incentives to feed trolls.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:37 | 1561862 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I suspect ZH pulled down the new UI, along with all other 'extras', in order to prevent the system from crashing. You may remember earlier this month when ZH was crashing several times a day. As soon as ZH stripped off the new UI the site was, and continues to be, up nearly all the time.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:42 | 1561876 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

We all have our theories ;)

- Chumblez.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:56 | 1561924 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

Hope they leave it like it is... much less bs over nothing, and much more actual debate without the constant negative rating focus.

... wtf happened to spell check?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:39 | 1561867 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

The rating system is chosen based on how much traffic it generates for Zero Hedge.  A free for all atmosphere engenders many page views.

- Chumblez.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 15:53 | 1562729 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

'specially if the pages have corndog pics. . .

pavlov, Horndogs!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:04 | 1563140 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

That was a stunning picture. I would have never allowed it to be taken. Had to conclude it was quite on purpose.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:50 | 1561690 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

see you @ gold: 1100 and silver @ 25 in 6 months time.

The Central Banks of the world use gold as leverage to continue the fiat ponzi.  They loan gold out to hold up their non performing assets, along with all other banking houses.  These entities NEED gold to rise so that there is earned interest on the loans.  Gold's price must increase to keep these banks solvent.

Gold peaked production in 2000.  Now that there is an increase in demand for bullion, and jewelry demand is growing, price will increase two fold.  Simple supply/demand, which is one of the only things economics has correct.

Oh, and silver is just like gold.  Cold, hard, monie.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:51 | 1561705 Koffieshop
Koffieshop's picture

Quite possible. I dont expect the Fed will start slashing zeros off the USD notes so soon though.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:00 | 1561731 Toxicosis
Toxicosis's picture

And you base this on????????????

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:31 | 1561837 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Methman, is that you?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:39 | 1561864 Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

on Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:30

see you @ gold: 1100 and silver @ 25 in 6 months time."


That's after Timmy and Ben lop a couple of zeros off the current FRNs?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:25 | 1562095 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Johnny Bravo,

Good to see you!

I forget his number (1200?) but he promised to disappear if gold ever went past that number.  He did indeed disappear. But he loves us so much, (and really, it was epic trolling) HEEEEZZZZ BACK!

Bitch can hijak a thread and get everyone to chase him around jizzing in their pants.

I'll leave milk and cookies out for you Johnny. Turn out the light on your way out if you are the last to leave.

Sweet kid, honestly. Hiz trollin skillz iz gud.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:02 | 1562980 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Didn't think you missed him that much, Missy.   I'm glad the weirdo is gone.   But, it was good for the site stats.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 18:09 | 1563156 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

You nailed me. I don't actually give a fuck, just being a smartass (though if you look at trolling as performance art he was good at derailing things).

You know, because I am not exactly an expert, I am quite sure some around here ("real traders") have to see me and others like me as a troll. I think the definition is fluid.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:49 | 1561701 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Land and homes are never an asset, even on titles it says you are a tennant, and still have to pay taxes. Other things CAN be 'currency' though, besides just base metals. If Ive got a crop of wheat and fruit and run across a bunch of hungry people, I guarantee it IS currency.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:04 | 1561743 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I have used smokes and spirits as currency to keep the bums and whores under control in urban areas, when I need them to keep the graffitti of the truck for example or personal security for a time.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:08 | 1562008 Chicken_Little
Chicken_Little's picture

I was an old BBS sYSop. You guys please give me pain... lol



Wed, 08/17/2011 - 15:11 | 1569904 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

A tenant is not necessarily a non-owner.  Can be, but doesn't need to be.  Land taxes are not universal in all jurisdictions.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:27 | 1561826 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Mr. Lennon Hendrix, old friend, allow me to please disabuse you of the notion that Webster Griffin Tarpley is anything other than a statist shill who charms his audience with his well-steeped historical analysis but then baits-and-switches his findings with proposed solutions that would give yet more power to the State to regulate, control, and tax.  Too many are too enamored by his anti-PTB rhetoric to realize that he's not calling for an ouster of the PTB, only a new set of them.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:36 | 1561841 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

He definately needs to rethink his view of the 14th amendment, the Federal Reserve, and such.  He also has no idea how economics, let alone markets, really work.  He uses the Hegelian dialectic as much as anyone.  It is becoming obvious to me.

Good to see you Chumba.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:41 | 1561873 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

You mean you haven't yet heard him refer to Austrian Economists as "crackpots"?  He seems like he's on our side but he's basically just a classical socialist in disguise.

Good to see you too, my friend.  Been laying low.

- Chumblez.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:10 | 1562016 Chicken_Little
Chicken_Little's picture

You are nothing but Chum


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:36 | 1562114 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Nah little birdie. He is pure awesomeness.

Him and Gordon Gekko tag teaming trolls on a gold thread, my God, the carnage. Bodies trashed and thrashed everywhere, Wagner blares, he brings out the Valkyrie in me. There is nothing like it.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:46 | 1562192 Chicken_Little
Chicken_Little's picture

Little Bird sez chirp chirp and sleep.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 14:02 | 1562263 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Very polite disagreement. All good. Chumba is a lot of fun if you know how to take him. Several bong hits would get you started.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:04 | 1562990 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Ludes, dudette.   Much better for the Chumster.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 14:09 | 1562303 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

The state owns the land.  It will graciously allow you the use of it as long as you are current in you taxes.  

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 10:52 | 1561493 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

More information on those "vault storage depositories" please.  No more room in mine for silver or gold, just ammo.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 10:57 | 1561510 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

My chart reading tells me Silver is poised for upward movement from today; I would say the silver market has been "quiet" compared to Gold; but not bearish, and that's alright. I don't expect anything dramatic, but the reason for the comment is that the "dip" may not be available; or in other words, this is the dip. Slow, but steady wins the race." Fine with me.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:04 | 1561536 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Quiet is a understatment. I have been "Watching" since China open last night and very little is taking place ATM, however we are settled and just wait. Waiting is good. It allows you to think carefully 5 moves ahead as one does in Chess instead of flailing about in a lather of panic and fear.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:23 | 1561597 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

All your charts are good for is a bad ass wipe! How is a chart effective when manipulation of PM markets is rampant?

You come with the same lame bs consistently... Troll...

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:06 | 1561751 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

But his IQ is 145 for God's sake!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:55 | 1561923 fallout11
fallout11's picture

Only in his dreams.....

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:42 | 1561673 JohnG
JohnG's picture

PSLV, PHYS, CEF, SGOL, there are others.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:15 | 1561781 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

...know what you mean....there have been some recent really great buying opportunities in 223.....loaded the boat, so to speak.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:57 | 1561931 Grimbert
Grimbert's picture

Look at Goldmoney and Bullionvault for vaults

or other ETF's with physical backing: PHAU and PHAG. These are Uk / Channel Islands based

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:13 | 1562030 Chicken_Little
Chicken_Little's picture

Are you a college student? I think you need to buy physical silver every chance you get. Duh.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 10:56 | 1561504 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I buy Physical and can take delivery with a click of a mouse and a day or two wait at the Post Office.

Or I can ship it and sell. Keep the profit and accumulate.

I consider this time in Silver as a great chance we have to gather up physical before the system finally explodes from the so called enforced cap keeping the price half or more than where it should be in today's dollars compared to the late 70's

I am old enough to remember the big 50 dollar hunt brothers move and should have gotten into Silver after it blew up and fell to a few dollars. But refused to sit on a lifetime of regrets. I act now to accumulate.

You would think that someone like Buffett might stumble out of bed one morning, make a phone call or online order for a few dollars sloshing around in his gigantic-mongomanically-hugest vault worthy of Scrooge Mcduck and purchase every ounce availible for delivery today and have it all shipped by a few owner operaters in semis to the delivery address.

No probelm right? Paper burns and physical remains, all else is hot air and BULLSHIT.

Oh a if I need a second or third safe to store the PM's a few coins sold on the exhange will pay for it and purchase a few boxes of ammunition or additional armor etc.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:21 | 1562076 Chicken_Little
Chicken_Little's picture

You sound like a young person. Want to come out here in Thailand and clean my condo while my wife is at work?


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 10:56 | 1561506 mickeyman
mickeyman's picture

Sovereign crises differ from standard market crises. As gold returns to true value in an orderly society, silver should keep up. On the other hand, as gold returns to its value while governments totter and possibly collapse, gold may decouple from silver--for the simple reason that if you have to flee for your life carrying your worldly wealth, it is preferable to carry it in gold as opposed to silver.

Here is an article that discusses this:

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:02 | 1561531 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

That is where the exchange comes in.

46 silver to one gold more or less right now.

Once I reach it I convert and buy gold to hold. and accumulate another 40 or whatever. There were times you did not need as many.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:30 | 1561626 ZeroAffect
ZeroAffect's picture

Roads and highways will not be safe to travel if a collapse occurs and anarchy reigns. Best bet is to store a good portion of assests at the safe place you will be fleeing to.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 10:59 | 1561514 UTICA CLUB XX PURE

Last week I bought 111 junk silver dimes for $ 300.00.

The week before that I bought a set of Antique Sterling Spoons.

I try to buy a little here & there whenever I can.

If Gold goes to $ 2,800.00 and if the S-T-G Ratio goes back to 16:1 then Silver can hit $ 175 per OZ.

I hope so...

But either way I feel safe in doing this because I'm betting against the Govt and usually thats a sure bet right?



Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:36 | 1561647 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

That's the Spirit.

I'm going to buy 5 ounces tommorow.  That's not a lot, but everyone has to do their part. 

Keep up the physical accumulation.  Everyone.  Your vote on this means something, and every ounce is a vote!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:06 | 1561750 Manthong
Manthong's picture

I look at it not so much as betting against the government but more like relying on gravity.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:27 | 1561831 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Put another way; there is a limited amount of physical metals and an infinite amount of fiat.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:17 | 1561521 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

Best article Ive read all year. We must start to use it. Wizard of OZ dude. Click dem silver slippers and end the madness forever.

I offer a 10% discount on my wares if paid in gold and silver coin. With the govt printing 22% new money in the last 6 months I am still overcharging. I even did some work for 200 lbs of copper wire the other day I gladly accepted.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:19 | 1561588 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

If you are a smith, I would have a barrel that needs some fitting and maybe a Rowland install too.

How many coins you need for that?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:33 | 1561600 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

Im a Buffalo Rancher. Sorry I can't help. Foxfire books might give you the information you seek. 

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:32 | 1561843 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Do you think a buffalo could handle a M61 Vulcan and it's operator?

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:50 | 1561902 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

No, but my lawyer could. Not sure what brought this comment. DERP

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:08 | 1562010 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

You missunderstood me. My inquiry is if a buffalo would be able to handle a rider with a M61 Vulcan.

But by all means send not only your lawyer, but all lawyers to face a Vulcan. Hell, let all bankers and politicians face a Vulcan too.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:11 | 1562023 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

I assume a Vulcan is some kind of spaceage military weapon. Sending in the Lawyer might be a grand idea. 

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:15 | 1562035 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Vulcans are very large rapid firing gun if I recall. I would not want to face one.

Fucking hell, 10.00 a round in BRRRRRRRP!!!! over a few seconds... whew... spendy.

The Buffalo he is referring to is probably a Gold Buff coin. Those are pretty pricey.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:17 | 1562046 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

No, I mean riding a real buffalo down Wall Street while mowing down banksters with a M61 Vulcan!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:41 | 1562164 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

That exchange was funny as hell, but really, just ride a bull, maybe we could deck him in gold adornments (you too if you like).

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 16:11 | 1562822 Ag1761
Ag1761's picture

The M61A1 utilized by the F-14 and F/A-18 aircraft is a hydraulically driven, 6 barreled, rotary action, air cooled, electrically fired weapon, with selectable rates of fire of either 4000 or 6000 rounds per minute. The M61A2 20mm light weight gun is utilized in the F/A-18 aircraft only. The gun system is mated to a linkless ammunition storage and handling system. The F-14 has a capacity of 676 rounds while the F/A-18 has a capacity of 578 rounds of 20mm linkless M-50 or PGU series electrically primed ammunition. World War II fighters and bombers were commonly equipped with Browning M2 heavy barrel .50 cal. machine guns which had a maximum firing rate of 1,200 spm. The Gatling gun had exceeded that rate of fire in 1880. In 1946, U.S. Army Ordnance Research and Development Service engineers dusted-off the old Gatling principle and adapted it to create the 6,000 spm M61 series Vulcan 20mm Gatling gun. The Gatling principle permitted a high rate of fire while reducing heat and barrel erosion.

In June 1946, the General Electric Company was awarded the contract for "Project Vulcan". In 1950, GE delivered ten initial model A .60 cal. T45 guns for evaluation. Thirty-three model C T45 guns were delivered in 1952 in three calibers: .60 cal., 20mm, and 27mm, for additional testing. After extensive testing, the T171 20mm gun was selected for further development. In 1956 the T171 20mm gun was standardized by the U.S. Army and U.S. Air Force as the M61 20mm Vulcan aircraft gun.

The M61 20mm Vulcan is an externally powered, six-barrel, rotary-fire gun having a rate of fire of up to 7200 spm. The firing rate is selectible at 4,000 spm or 6,000 spm. The gun fires standard electrically primed 20mm ammunition. The M61A1 is hydraulically or ram-air driven, electrically controlled, and uses a linkless ammunition feed system. Each of the gun's six barrels fires only once during each revolution of the barrel cluster. The six rotating barrels contribute to long weapon life by minimizing barrel erosion and heat generation. The gun's rate of fire, essentially 100 rounds per second, gives the pilot a shot density that will enable a "kill" when fired in one-second bursts. The M61 20mm cannon is a proven gun, having been the US military's close-in weapon of choice dating back to the 1950s. The F-104, F-105, later models of the F-106, F-111, F-4, B-58, all used the M61, as does the Air Force's F-15 , F-16 and F-22, and the Navy's F-14 and F/A-18. The internally mounted 20mm cannon system is common to all versions of the F-15. This system combines the widely used (F-4, F-16, F-18) M61 cannon with 940 rounds (A through D models) or 500 rounds (E model) of ammunition. The cannon can be loaded with target practice, armor piercing, or high explosive incendiary rounds. The primary use of the cannon is in the extremely short range (less than 2000 feet) air-to-air environment, where more sophistacated air-to-air missiles are ineffective. Alternately, the cannon has limited usefulness in a ground strafing role.

The M61A2 is a lightweight version of the M61A1. Most of the weight savings was achieved by machining down the barrel thickness.


A Buffalo is a big fat hairy fucker you don't want to get in front of, like the gun.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:15 | 1562040 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

I assume a Vulcan is some kind of spaceage military weapon. Heck a buffalo cant even take a 30'06. I had to shoot one one time: Got all rutty and kept dinting up my pickup attacking it, My feed truck looks like it seen a Vulcan. LOL. Sending in the Lawyer might be a grand idea. 

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:03 | 1561535 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Should study the commodity definition of margin.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:06 | 1561542 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

No margin needed, just cold cash.

Bank wires are best and fast. If you can move that much without affecting your normal household monthly bills, our Government seems to deliberately ignore that little necessity.... Budgets are for the Little People to carry.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:42 | 1561672 oddjob
oddjob's picture

I agree, the amount of Silver sold short on margin is uncoverable.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:11 | 1561555 Ancona
Ancona's picture

Until paper speculation and fraus are eliminated in this tiny market, or margin requirements for silver [physical] approach 100%, there is no way the cartel can be broken. Until all above ground silver has been taken out of the various vaults around the world, and is in the private hands of willing buyers [read: not banks or ETF's] it will be the same old, same old.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:46 | 1561691 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

Not necessarily.  It could be that the Hong Kong Exchange represents a global shift.  Ocean liners don't turn on a dime.  Here is an interesting interview of commodities rigging expert F. William Engdahl.


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:59 | 1561942 fallout11
fallout11's picture

It was just a few weeks ago the HKE bid price exceeded the Comex ask. Times they are a changin'.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:13 | 1562027 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

That would give me a wet dream. Not that something like that comes round on the wife once in a while.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:04 | 1561979 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture


Raymond Reason ,

start here .

You are Welcome, JW

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:14 | 1561565 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Gold is a diabolical fiend.

When I want to buy it always drops.
When I dont want to buy I forget about it.

Note to self.....

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:16 | 1561571 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

Is there an mention of the back-piping via CLS Bank and LCH Clearnet. Be careful if you think that this system exists within Dodd-Frank because it is not vacuum packed and if you sleep you just might miss the reset.

Dave Harrison

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:18 | 1561583 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

Looking for the Dollar to spike here, right before the Comex close. After that it's back to the downtrend. Can't let the Chartists down.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:21 | 1561591 machineh
machineh's picture

'All told, silver should actually be MORE apt to increase during economic uncertainty than gold, because of its wider industrial usage and subsequent decreasing supply.'

'Wider industrial usage' is precisely why silver lags when the manufacturing ISM drops to 50.9, as it did this month.

The author appears to be impervious to facts which contradict his faith-based beliefs. With true-believer friends like this, silver hardly needs enemies.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:48 | 1561696 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Don't be silly! The world of manufacturing does not begin and end at the borders. Besides, the ISM is like most stats these days - highly suspicious. Watch silver continue to grind higher despite all attempts at control. Eventually the "true" price of an ounce will be discovered by the marketplace. Of this you may be assured.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:04 | 1561741 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

Wrong.  I give you an F as in Flunk or Failure.

Industrial use of silver will not be hit even in an economic downturn.  That is media propaganda garbage. They are not going to stop putting it in electronics, batteries, solar panels, water purification, Medical uses etc.  IE its not Iron or Copper or Lead which you can make a case for decreased need in a recession.  I think the same easlily goes for Palladium and Platinum.  They will not go down or out of demand in a downturn.  Carpenters and copper will, but  Silver, gold, platinum or Palladium will not.

Silvers industrial component, and the fact that is disappears in the industrial sector should be a wake up call for lower ratios than it is produced.  I think 10 to 1 to gold is a good number given its industrial use.  Hi Ho sillllverrrr..And Awaaay..

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:21 | 1561592 Imminent Collapse
Imminent Collapse's picture

I don't know, but I've been told

It's hard to run with the weight of gold

Other hand, I have heard it said

It's just as hard with the weight of lead

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:23 | 1561602 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Ya know? When a fight in on, there is no time to to think or talk, that weapon is but a feather while the Law weighs on every round you send on the way to the bad guy.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:38 | 1561653 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Well the lead may be heavy but at least you can fire it at those trying to chase you.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:08 | 1562001 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

1. Copper (leads better brother)

2. Medicine (for loved ones or yourself that is needed

3. Water (pump on property that you control), water filter to purify your drinking water or while on the run

4. food.

5. gold or silver.


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:03 | 1561738 itsonlymoney
itsonlymoney's picture

one way or the other!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:26 | 1561608 chunga
chunga's picture

I've been wondering if there is such a thing as a silver OPEC...sure seems like it.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:44 | 1561679 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Well theres no doubt tons of manipulation, no way with everything going up and down like mad, silver just trades around a couple bucks in price? If real trading was going on, silver would have seen double where it is now easily.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:04 | 1561980 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Yep something huge is going on. Someones keeping price of cloud seeding low.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:26 | 1561612 FreeMartinArmstrong
FreeMartinArmstrong's picture

This is probably the most stupid article ever on zerohedge

gold to expensive ? buy a grain ...

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:44 | 1561680 machineh
machineh's picture

Speaking of Martin Armstrong, he IS free.

I'm gonna change my handle to FreeSeanCorrigan. ;-)

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 14:15 | 1562327 FreeMartinArmstrong
FreeMartinArmstrong's picture

He is free the day he is allowed to leave American soil

until today, he can not.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:27 | 1561616 choorles
choorles's picture

STOP! WHAT IS MONEY? The money that the world uses today is created by private banks lending non-existent money called credit. This credit has never, does not and will never exist, except in theory on computer screens. People die and they starve all because they do not have enough digits on a computer screen. All of this credit, created by the private banks, is owed back to those same banks, plus interest. By design, there is never enough credit in circulation to pay back all the principal plus interest on the loans outstanding, which is why the concept of bankruptcy is built into the system.

Using the simple system above, banksters are given the ability to manipulate the world’s economies into ‘boom and bust’ cycles. In essence, the only difference between a boom and a bust is the amount of credit in circulation, or rather, the net amount of numbers on people’s computer screens. Initially, banksters create a boom by increasing the supply of credit in the economy. During this boom period, individuals and businesses are encouraged to take on more debt as they are more confident of increasing their income in the future. All this extra credit in the system leads to more activity, which in turn creates more confidence in the system, with many getting into more debt. This boom is akin to a fishing trawler, the bankster throws out a credit line and waits, once the bait has been taken the bankster begins to wind in the credit by taking credit out of circulation, it’s gone. The economy then moves into a slump or recession, simply because there are not enough units of credit in circulation. The banksters are then able to trawl from people the wealth that does exist, in exchange for money that never existed in the first place.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:52 | 1561711 sitenine
sitenine's picture


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:28 | 1561620 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

Thanks for finally bringing the white metal into the fray.  I still do not see why anyone would buy gold at these levels, when silver is sitting below 100 an Ounce.  It's the table pounding buy of the century. 

Justice will not be done until we are below 15 to 1.


Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:40 | 1561659 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Gold is the currency for kings, silver for peasants.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:48 | 1561695 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Gold is the currency of Kings.

Silver is the currency of Gentlemen.

Barter is the currency of Peons.

Debt is the bondage of Slaves.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:56 | 1561720 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

Gold is the money of Kings, Silver the money of gentlemen, Barter is the money of peasants and Debt is the money of slaves. There fixed 

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:33 | 1561847 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

. . . and status is the money of sheep.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:58 | 1561934 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

Agreed, It was just an old saying. I look down on no one. My wife is from a Kingston ghetto. I married her for who she is. She is truly priceless, the only thing I have I will never part with.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 16:28 | 1562887 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

now there's wealth!

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 19:55 | 1563511 Shirley Wilfahrt
Shirley Wilfahrt's picture

I like that.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:31 | 1561627 Yardstick of Ci...
Yardstick of Civilization's picture

It dosn't matter what bad news we get.  The media was just reminded of how much cash is on the sidelines in corporate coffers (which has to be spent on acquisitions lest it "go bad" because of inflation), and my prediction is that we see much, much less volatility in the coming weeks and a steady rise back to the 1,350 level in the S&P.

If we really are bears, then we should pray for a ban on short-selling and use synthetics for our trades!  Every time we cover, we give hope to the market and the fucks on CNBC.

Just one guess though . . . Let time tell.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:42 | 1561670 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Wait...did everyone forget about Jackson Kornhole and QE? What is that now, just a 'nevermind' now that QE3 has been priced in how many times over? 

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:11 | 1561766 fuu
fuu's picture

"If we really are bears,"


Psst, it's not a sports team.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:51 | 1561911 Yardstick of Ci...
Yardstick of Civilization's picture

Pssst, when I think of bears I always think of your mom's hairy back, not a sport's team.

In the future, just know that any time I say bear or bears you should replace it with "fuu's mom."

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 13:50 | 1562209 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

You won't last long at fight club.

Too sensitive.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 17:16 | 1563013 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Why do they truncate usernames?   Not like there is not enough room for them.....

Tue, 08/16/2011 - 10:08 | 1565078 fuu
fuu's picture

Watch out, her dick is bigger than yours.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:31 | 1561630 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

In 2011, so far gold has been the champion investment above and beyond any contender,


Anybody here know how to calculate percentages?

I make gold in 2011 +26%.  And silver in 2011 +29%.  But, whatever.  Poetic license, I guess.



Mon, 08/15/2011 - 12:20 | 1561802 Confucious 222
Confucious 222's picture

Netdania has it at silver +27.43% YTD, gold at +22.78% YTD about noon EST today.

Silver has been leading gold for the last couple of years now.



Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:41 | 1561667 Mises
Mises's picture

Peter Schiff made a perfect analogy to this on his show the other day..


Let's say your driving a car and there is a bit of're in the left lane (silver)  doesnt seem to be moving but the right lane (gold) is moving fast. Everything about our human nature tell us to get into the other lane, because if we do we will be able to get to our destination faster. However, as we have all seen before, once we switch lanes, the lane we were just in starts moving and we are now stuck in the slow lane.....

Underlying point of it all = both lanes are eventually headed to the same destination....if you sell your silver to buy gold may miss out on a big silver move when gold stays still.....

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:56 | 1561723 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture


It's good to start in Silver, keep accumulating.

Then buy gold with the proceeds, now you accumulate both towards Platinum and so on.

Once you have the metals covered and working for you each day and night, accumulate.

Mon, 08/15/2011 - 11:43 | 1561677 juwes
juwes's picture

"While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks," Buffett said.

Buffett said that he paid only 17.4% of his taxable income, which was lower than what the average middle-class American must pony up. An income earner who makes $8,500 to $34,500 is in the 15% tax bracket; $34,500 to $83,600 reaches the 25% bracket; and $83,600 to $174,400 falls in the 28% bracket. 

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