This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Guest Post: This Country Defaulted Long Ago

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Jim Quinn of The Burning Platform

This Country Defaulted Long Ago

“There is no means of avoiding a final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.”Ludwig von Mises

The final collapse of our credit expansion boom approaches. We have a choice over the next week. We could voluntarily abandon further credit expansion by voting for a Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution or we can raise the debt ceiling, pretend to cut spending far in the future, and allow our currency system to experience a catastrophic final collapse.

We’ll take what’s behind door #2 Johnny. The vested interests in Washington DC and Wall Street only care about power and wealth. They will never abandon credit expansion. It’s their drug. They must have it. They are addicted to it. They will keep injecting it into our system until they overdose America.

The mainstream media acts as if not raising the debt ceiling by next Tuesday will result in America defaulting. This is a crock. America chose to proceed on a path to default decades ago. We are just finally reaching our destination. Below are the choices we made as a people and a country to default on our obligations and eventually destroy our country:

  • The enactment of the 16th Amendment to the Constitution in 1913 allowing the government to impose a tax on your income, thereby opening Pandora’s Box to a 60,000 page tax code and allowing politicians to sell their votes to the highest bidder.
  • The signing into law of the Federal Reserve Act by Woodrow Wilson in 1913, transferring control of our currency system to Wall Street banks. The man made inflation created by the Federal Reserve has reduced the purchasing power of the USD by 97% since 1913 and has allowed politicians to promise $100 trillion of benefits to Americans, that can never be delivered.
  • The Social Security Act signed into law by Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1935, supposedly to help widows and orphans, morphed into a giant ponzi scheme used by politicians to make Americans think it was a retirement plan and the money was in a lockbox. The scam continues, but ponzi schemes always collapse.
  • Fannie Mae was created in 1938 as a government agency and Freddie Mac was created in 1970 as a quasi-government agency. By promoting home ownership and subsidizing loans to people who should have never gotten loans these agencies caused hundreds of billions in mal-investment. As tools of politicians, they were used to push social agendas. The result will be in excess of $300 billion in losses to the American taxpayer.
  • The Korean War set a precedent where the President did not need to seek Congress to declare war as required under the Constitution. This has allowed the President the freedom to fight undeclared wars around the world for decades, while spending trillions, with no approval from Congress.
  • LBJ’s Great Society programs such as Medicare and Medicaid were sold to Americans as cost saving programs that would improve healthcare for all Americans. We now spend 17% of our GDP on healthcare and these two programs have an unfunded liability of almost $100 trillion.

  • Nixon closing the gold window in 1971 removed all restraint on the Federal Reserve, banks and politicians. With a fiat currency backed by nothing but promises, it was only a matter of time before the greed and corruption of bankers and politicians overcame any self imposed fiscal responsibility. The result has been the National Debt going from $400 billion in 1971 to $14.4 trillion today, a 3,600% increase in 40 years. Meanwhile, GDP only increased 1,350% over this same time frame.
  • The embrace of consumer debt by the Baby Boom generation beginning in 1980 created an atmosphere of living for today and not worrying about the future. This attitude has left 50% of all the households in the country with a net worth of $70,000 or below.
  • The repeal of the Glass Steagall Act in 1999 unleashed the hounds of hell upon America, as the soulless blood sucking vampires on Wall Street proceeded to rape and pillage the American economy with their financial derivatives of mass destruction and marketing of debt to the clueless masses. The housing bust and impoverishment of the middle class can be laid at the feet of these evil greedy bastards.
  • Bush’s unpaid for wars of choice, his reckless tax cuts, and his foolish expansion of a bankrupt Medicare program in the midst of two wars turbo charged the country on its path to default.
  • By bailing out Wall Street on the backs of the middle class in 2008/2009, the politicians in this country showed their hand. They will protect their fellow power brokers and contributors and throw the American people under the bus. Wall Street controls Congress.
  • The Keynesian schemes rolled out by Obama and his minions have just added trillions of debt while depressing the economic system and doing nothing to help the average person. The Fed created inflation has inflamed revolution through out the world and further impoverished the middle class who need to eat and fill up their cars.
  • In the midst of a Depression Obama chose to create a brand new healthcare bureaucracy, add 30 million people into the government controlled system, and commit the US taxpayer to trillions of future healthcare costs.

As you can see, next Tuesday means nothing. The debt ceiling means nothing. We chose to default as a nation many years ago. The destination was certain, only the timing was in question. Time to step on the gas.

“Credit expansion is not a nostrum to make people happy. The boom it engenders must inevitably lead to a debacle and unhappiness.”Ludwig von Mises


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:22 | 1504943 midtowng
midtowng's picture

It's not officially a default if the debt is priced in paper that you can just print in whatever quantity you want.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:27 | 1504970 markmotive
markmotive's picture

America has been trapped in an economic quagmire since it's peak prosperity around the end of the 20th century.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:32 | 1504997 Josh Randall
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:43 | 1505007 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

CHF is soaring to historical highs.

euro humpty dumpty about to fall off the wall


greenback ain't in better shape: the first domino of dollar dumping starts.

Cambodia shuns the greenback:

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 20:04 | 1506888 Jalaluddin
Jalaluddin's picture

My friend says Kampuchea is a very nice country - very peaceful and safe, has internet.

Why not take some of your gold coins with you, brace yourselves for a groping by the TSA and head off for an extended holiday?

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 00:53 | 1507297 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

Better not say that too loud.  High Plains Drifter will get his panties in a twist over your personal decisions and wax eloquent about how he will not let you back in after he's done remaking the country.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:42 | 1505044 Version 7
Version 7's picture

Peak credit expansion you mean. The peak prosperity goes back to the 50's.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:05 | 1505168 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Agreed that relative peak prosperity happened in the 1950s.

But I'd say we felt 'richest' (regardless of how it happened) in terms of global purchasing power around 2000. Some would argue that 2006 was when we felt 'richest', but I discount that because of the destruction of DXY since 2000.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:32 | 1505295 Don Keot
Don Keot's picture

The housing bubble gave the appearance of wealth.  Just think about all the refinanaces that bought pools, toys, cars(SUVs), to pull those toy trailers and boats, trips to Disney, Hawaii, Sandals etc. life has been great.  Now just default.  Even works at the personal level.

Don't you just love BHO's new comment.  "I will not allow those who pay no taxes bear the burden of those who are not paying their fair share"

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 13:08 | 1505464 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture


"I want change!" ---says the homeless guy

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:48 | 1506399 UncleFester
UncleFester's picture

I'm pretty sure he meant Emmelt and GE will not bear the burden.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:43 | 1505048 TorchFire
TorchFire's picture

Encore presentation:


Dark Harbor

Where has she gone

with her lamp held high

beckoning outcasts who would live free or die?

There, in the east!

What? She stands as if caged...

her eyes remain steady yet her heart's disengaged

Once revered by the nation

(those who would not be ruled)

but her people grew weaker and now they are fooled

“Liberty!” they greet her

for they seem well acquainted

but she views them as strangers, with her wisdom untainted

While yet in her youth

the year nineteen thirteen

she was tied to an altar by hands so unclean

As freedoms were stolen

from that day to this

her children sat idle and did not resist

Now forced into shadows

for one hundred years

she stands in the harbor imprisoned by fears

She waits for the hour

for her torch reignited

by the courage of people from a nation united

When truth is revealed

from the flame in her eyes

those who once chained her will see their demise

And the elegant lady

once more we'll defend

and her principled nation will rise once again


© TorchFire 2011

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 10:20 | 1507588 pops
pops's picture

Giggidy, giggidy!


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:35 | 1505012 tempo
tempo's picture

The President said repeatedly this morning..."we don't have to do this". Translated this means the President wants to continue and expand deficit spending, more Govt regulation, less jobs in the free market, more outsourcing, higher Corp profits, more power for the elite, etc. The President knows the country is on a high, sub prime on drugs and coming off the drugs will mean his defeat in 2012. So hell yes, he wants to continue and expand, pretend and extend...whatever it takes to get reelected. Then he can do whatever he wishes.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 13:43 | 1505660 AGuy
AGuy's picture

He's kidding himself, if he believes he has even the remotest chance to win in 2012. He's renegged on ever campaign promis he's made:


Shutdown Gitmo? No

End the Wars,Remove troops from the Middle East? No Started three new ones:Libya, Pakastan, and Yemen

Prosecute those that commited fraud in Wall St? No, instead promoted them and gave them immunity from criminal prosecution

Shutdown gov't spying on Americans? No, Doubled down with increased spying

End BAU in Washington? No, Doubled down on making much worse


Obama did everything Bush did wrong times 10. I don't think even his wife will vote for him!

Obama has assured the destruction of the United States and the beginning of the Divided States of America!


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:23 | 1505812 Rhodin
Rhodin's picture

I share your general opinion of Obummer with less intensity. (I only think he is twice as bad as Bush, not ten times) but that does not disable his chance for re-election.

The Powerz/owners have the media and money to select his opposition.  Effectively they run both campaigns  They will certianly have many agents in their puppet's campaign staffs.  Depending on what dirt they have on the candidates, whether they decide to use it, what campaign gaffes are engineered and the media spin on these, they get to pick the winner most of the time.


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:28 | 1505835 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Sadly, all that means is that the republicans can now slip another of their utter losers on us -- why waste a good candidate on a gimme?  And if the big O is sufficiently discredited, we might have to face Hillary again.  Yuck.

We lose whoever wins, haven't you learned that yet?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:33 | 1506097 deeznutz
deeznutz's picture

Right. That was his *mandate* when he got into office: finish Bush/Clinton/Bush/Reagan/Carter/etc.../etc...'s work: Roll back the middle class. Voting is a complete waste of time.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:37 | 1505023 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Artice is a graet summary!

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:14 | 1505207 wisfool
wisfool's picture

Its surprising that so many here trash banksters and politicians and uber weathly elite individuals.

But the article completely overlooked the 'hidden' door: raise taxes on the 1% ???

It won't solve the problem but shouldn't it be considered one of the 'doors' or open to debate?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 13:03 | 1505431 Greenhead
Greenhead's picture

The 1% is not a homogeneous class.  You have wage earners and business owners who create jobs and invest in their businesses and then you have the "unearned" income class.  The latter probably have significantly higher levels of wealth yet are taxed at lower capital gains rates.  Mostly the President talks about raising taxes on the wage earners and business owners and doesn't much address the disparity of rates the "unearned" class enjoy because of the amount of contributions he receives from that group.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:18 | 1505793 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

I support raising rates on high income W-2 and investment income over a certain level ($500K), but not business owners who could use the money to create new jobs instead of giving it to the feds to blow on wars, foreign aid, and stupid projects. There should be no increase in taxes unless the government can get the budget back under $3 trillion. It would be like filling up the gas tank on a wrecked car.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:33 | 1506092 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

So, you admit to being a tax whore, and we're just quibbling over the price?

Having winners and losers be chosen by Washington hasn't worked out so well for us.  Why would it be any different under your guidance?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:43 | 1505353 escargot
escargot's picture

What does "official" have to do with anything?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 21:21 | 1506977 Jalaluddin
Jalaluddin's picture

1. I thought he 16th Amendment to the Constitution was never ratified.

2. At least one other comment has covered this but I will add mine: writing a 1 followed by 12 zeros is not difficult, so the problem does not lie here.

3. A Russian demographer calculates that socialist FDR wiped out about as many U.S. citizens in the 30's depression as the Cheka wiped out in the Ukraine.

4. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac: boondoggles.

5. Have a look at the Line of Control and you will realise what an aggressive, provocative pack of gentlemen the US has become - you don't just fight wars, you manufacture them (and contantly bellyaching "Waaah! He hit me first!) but the wars are no longer profitable as the easy pickings are finished and now basically only the Muslims are left to rape and pillage and we are a tough nut to crack.

6. The Great Society blows another mind - Mad Magazine's take.

7. Default on gold backing of the Amerazoo, and "social" "security" are just part of the fiat scam where virtually entire populations have been so indoctrinated that it is almost impossible to find anyone who can think straight and figure out that there should be no trade in promissory notes (and no "gold backed" currency, just gold).

* And for any mentally impaired person who suggests that "gold is heavy" i prescribe a regimen of press-ups and chin-ups (I have a PhD in Economics and am eminently qualified in the area of medical economics).

* Also the pic of Liberty is wrong - she is up to her eye-balls in debt.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:24 | 1504948 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture



5-yr. yield has now crashed to 1.40% and we have a complete U-Turn on ES.

Gimme a full blown default, and we'll see the 5-yr. yield at 1.25% within hours.

Never fight Uncle Gorilla.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:33 | 1504980 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Uncle Gorilla is now rated less than AAA as per Obama.

He is not lying about that.

THIS General Jim (Quinn) has been predicting correctly all along.



I guess I am going to have to say the below all day.  My duty as I see it.

To: Tea Party members of the House:

Do.Not.Give.In.  Remember why we elected you.  Stop the spending, stop the cozy deals.  Stop the robbery of the American people.  The ONLY way to right the ship (and it WILL be very painful) is to STOP the spending.  You know it, and we know it.


To: Valued Zero Hedge readers and commentators:

Buy.Gold.Now.  Tell your members of Congress: NO!  To a BAD deal.


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:29 | 1505282 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

they will do the same back room deals as all the previous assclowns in office have done ... you'll see

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:31 | 1505850 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Rolling, you might be right.  On the other hand, the meme of the day is that we get a deal (which will stink), and so many people want to see it as good, that the market will zoom, and PM's correct -- for about a day or two.  Then they'll read it and the reverse will happen.  I'm sitting on dry powder myself to buy that dip.  If I don't get it, or I don't catch it, I'll not have lost much in opportunity cost, and I can still increase over my core, non traded holdings -- I just won't make *as much* if my hypothesis is wrong.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:37 | 1505028 dasein211
dasein211's picture

You're right. It makes me want to throw up in my mouth and shit on congresses face but you're right. Trade like bernanke's gonna win.. For a while. We will not default. We will QE and obfuscate to the very end. There will be no spx crash... Ever. The dollar will devalue before all else. Its their only way to keep power. Fuck.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 13:19 | 1505526 tsx500
tsx500's picture


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:08 | 1505173 malek
malek's picture

Look Robotroll! Another decade low for EUR/CHF may be in.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:23 | 1505251 Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

Please just stop posting and/or kill yourself.  As if the message in your ridiculous posts wasn't bad enough, you insist on using some kind of faux-trader juvenile language such as "world-record highs" and "Uncle Gorilla."

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:24 | 1504952 casaananda
casaananda's picture

Should I sell my gold now?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:46 | 1505063 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Yes. I'll buy it from you.

GREAT ARTICLE, most of my favourite rants all together. 60'000 pages tax code? No way, it's much more. The last law was 20'000 pages. Either you have a huge team of lawyers or you are a second class citizen.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:42 | 1505350 Debt-Penitent
Debt-Penitent's picture



Might as well dump it quick for $1400 an oz too, just to be sure it all sells fast.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 13:23 | 1505549 tsx500
tsx500's picture

' ...  honey,  that raging wildfire is getting very very close to our house ... looks like it has a very good chance of hitting us very soon... what do you think, should we cancel our homeowner's insurance now ? '

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:24 | 1504954 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

The final collapse of our credit expansion boom approaches

All parabolic moves end in an epic bust.

"Full Faith and Credit" will appear on the tombstones of Greenspan, Paulson, Bernanke and Geithner.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:30 | 1504973 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Famous last words.


Watch this.

It's different this time.

I am not addicted to fiat crack.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:31 | 1504992 V in PA
V in PA's picture

Don't forget...

Fuck it, thats good enough.
I can fly!!
Obama seems like a good candidate

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:03 | 1505155 r101958
r101958's picture

....and 'Check's in the mail'.....' all locked on'........'got ya covered'......

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:03 | 1505156 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture


Yeah, I'm pretty sure it will work like that.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:29 | 1504982 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Debt shall set you free.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:31 | 1504990 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Who's going to honor them with a burial?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:25 | 1504958 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Money printing is default by another name. Results are the same.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:06 | 1505169 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Who cares as long as we don't have to eat our peas, right?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:37 | 1504961 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture



I guess I am going to have to say the below all day.  My duty as I see it.


To: Tea Party members of the House:

Do.Not.Give.In.  Remember why we elected you.  Stop the spending, stop the cozy deals.  Stop the robbery of the American people.  The ONLY way to right the ship (and it WILL be very painful) is to STOP the spending.  You know it, and we know it.


To: Valued Zero Hedge readers and commentators:

Buy.Gold.Now.  Tell your members of Congress: NO!  To a BAD deal.


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:47 | 1506393 Mr Kurtz
Mr Kurtz's picture

While sympathetic to the need to reign in spending, I am extremely leery of their corporate backers, Koch Industries, Rupert Murdoch, Dick Armey's Freedom works, etc whom I am convinced do not have my financial interests in mind nor that of their tragically duped placard waving followers. 

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:26 | 1504963 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Shameless plug for my coming article later today regarding the Washington DC and Wall Street addict and how it relates to our own enabling.


The vested interests in Washington DC and Wall Street only care about power and wealth. They will never abandon credit expansion. It’s their drug. They must have it. They are addicted to it. They will keep injecting it into our system until they overdose America.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:32 | 1504994 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I look forward to your piece CigDis.

Am I allowed to read it first and throw up when I finish?  What if projectile vomiting happens first?  Would that be OK?  It would be MY keyboard after all.


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 13:12 | 1505488 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Check your email, but please wait until it hits ZH, then make sure to include a link back to ZH. But you have your sneak peak waiting for you now.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:33 | 1505001 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

There's a serious problem with the analogy.  They may be the addict, but an over dose doesn't kill them.  It kills us instead.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:38 | 1505032 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Silver, I gave you No. 3.  Great insight.

+ $1620 (?)

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:05 | 1505166 Tao 4 the Show
Tao 4 the Show's picture

Agree also.

Here's another analogy: credit expansion is like the enzyme mosquitoes inject to keep your blood flowing while they suck. The bankers are addicted to our life energies (work, products, money,etc). They couldn't care less what method they use. Vamps!

DoChen: you mentioned your web site a while back. I also went expat - would be interested in seeing it.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:37 | 1506547 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Send me a gmail at my name for the link to my lil ol blog, promise me you will behave.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:06 | 1505170 Doyle Hargraves
Doyle Hargraves's picture

Think of 'them' as the drunk driver that parties like a rock star and only drives because he is too fucked up to walk and takes out a family on their way home from a theme park on a sunday night, that would be a great analogy!

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:48 | 1505364 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture


There's a serious problem with the analogy.  They may be the addict, but an over dose doesn't kill them.  It kills us instead.

I said nothing about an overdose. The bold I applied to the quote was what I was talking about. I pulled the entire quote to give the bold some context.

You might want to read the article before condemning the analogy.

There is no such thing as a perfect analogy. Using an analogy implies a similarity, not a perfect copy.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:52 | 1505375 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

My post was not meant to call you out, CD. I was only joining the conversation with a follow up thought.

Much respect,


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 13:07 | 1505461 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

My bad for assuming the worst.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:35 | 1505015 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Drugs, addicts, overdose... sounds jolly, upbeat, when is it out?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:51 | 1505474 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Sometime around 4 PM East Coast Tribe Time.

Banzai7 and I are talking about carpet bombing ZH at the same time. :>)

Hide the women and children because mine ain't gonna be pretty.

EDIT: Not going at 4. Looks like Banzai7 and I will be holding off for a day or two.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:26 | 1504965 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Closing the gold window was a default in all but name.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:43 | 1506130 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Even earlier:  Removing the Gold clause was a default.  Lots of talk about violation of contracts recently.   We haven't seen anthing quite like what they did in 1933.

The Gold Reserve Act had economic ramifications far beyond national finance. At that time many contracts stipulated that their monetary terms could be demanded in gold. Such gold clauses were intended to protect against the United States devaluing the dollar. When the Emergency Banking Act of 1933 and the Gold Reserve Act of 1934 outlawed the use of gold such contracts became sources of controversy. In the gold clause case Norman vs. Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Co., 294 U.S. 240 (1935), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that gold clauses were invalid.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:55 | 1506426 UncleFester
UncleFester's picture

Don't forget fiat33 for us domesticted animals.  1971 was the final default to foreigns.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:26 | 1504967 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Even after a 'default', and a currency collapse, the main issue will remain:


It's not about spending, regulation, jobs, the economy, or Grandma's check.

It's about your bondage.  Perpetual debt servitude.  Peonage.

The land you live on, the air you breathe, all owned by your masters.  And you will pay your debt to society, or you will not survive.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:34 | 1505305 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Debt Jubilee will set you free.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:42 | 1505346 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Don't bogart that joint, man, let us have some too.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:47 | 1506571 Mr Kurtz
Mr Kurtz's picture

Spot on! Remember it's their money. Theirs' to inflate, to devalue, to do what it takes to maximize return. Even the pennies on your eyes when your dead.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:27 | 1504971 Cassandra Syndrome
Cassandra Syndrome's picture

Nice quote From Mises. Here's a sweet gem from Murray Rothbard, back in 1991;

At some point in the possibly near future, perhaps in the next recession and the next spate of bad bank loans, it might dawn upon the public that 1.5 percent is not very safe either, and that no such level can guard against the irresistible holocaust of the bank run. At that point, ignoring the usual mendacious assurances and soothing-syrup of the Establishment, the commercial banks might be plunged into their ultimate crisis. The United States authorities would then be faced with two stark choices. One would be to allow the entire banking system to collapse, along with virtually all the deposits and depositors in that system. Since, given the mind-set of American politicians, and their evident philosophy of “too big to fail,” it is certain that they would be forced to embrace the second alternative: massive, hyper-inflationary printing of enough cash to pay off all the bank liabilities. The redeposit of such cash in the banking system would bring about an immediate runaway inflation and a massive flight from the dollar.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:36 | 1505017 Version 7
Version 7's picture

allow the entire banking system to collapse

Yes, and reset the whole damn thing.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:11 | 1505184 Doyle Hargraves
Doyle Hargraves's picture

Murray was a true prophet of the coming economic doom and the phrase 'TBTF' he uttered long before the current crisis which makes me know 'TPTB' have read and understood his work. The only question is how long have 'TPTB' been planning this mess. I am only sad that Murray did not live to see his life's work be validated before his eyes.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:35 | 1505314 scrappy
scrappy's picture

Mises? Think deeper dude. the rabbit hole is deeper indeed...

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:25 | 1506520 Cassandra Syndrome
Cassandra Syndrome's picture

That article is full of shit. Austrians have the most contempt for the Federal Reserve and the Fractional Reserve banking System of any on this planet. Here's Rothbard take on the Feds

As for the claims that the Rockefellers founded it, what tripe. Carl Menger founded it in the mid 19th Century in central Europe (the clue is in the name) the name was originally a derogatory name from the Statist economists of the day who feared Menger and his beliefs on liberty for all. 

No doubt the dork who wrote that is a Keynesian who expects statists privileges for life.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:28 | 1504974 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

 thanks for sharing...........

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:28 | 1504976 bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

Go LONG, stay STRONG, even a negative GDP can't take this market down.  I wonder how many 'other forums' readers went short SP500 futures on margin with money borrowed from a 29.9 APR credit card, in their wifes name.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:29 | 1504984 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture



Tyler's "Compression Trade" algo was right on the money.

I swear that thing is now 5 for 5, near perfect record.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:30 | 1504986 Jesse
Jesse's picture


The problem is two unfunded wars, irresponsible tax cuts for the wealthiest, and a financial sector out of control.

I realize that we are in the hysteria stage now and have to work through it, but at the end of the day, that is what

took the US off the tracks.  It was not an act of God, it was acts of pigmen.  And so men and women can solve the problem.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:36 | 1505014 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ $1620 Jesse.  One of my next stops.

Green one from me.

I guess I am going to have to say the below all day.  My duty as I see it.

To: Tea Party members of the House:

Do.Not.Give.In.  Remember why we elected you.  Stop the spending, stop the cozy deals.  Stop the robbery of the American people.  The ONLY way to right the ship (and it WILL be very painful) is to STOP the spending.  You know it, and we know it.


To: Valued Zero Hedge readers and commentators:

Buy.Gold.Now.  Tell your members of Congress: NO!  To a BAD deal.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:36 | 1505020 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

/vomit  Funny, you left out government welfare.  I guess spending is okay with you as long as it is stealing from the "rich" to provide for the "poor," huh?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:37 | 1506108 Don Keot
Don Keot's picture

"I will not allow those who pay no income tax to bear the burden of those not paying their fair share"  BHO

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:37 | 1505026 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

+1 amazing gag reflex suppression.  Must've hurt going down, though.

-1 for not understanding that our currency is debt that can never be paid back.  The point being that you run along on your hamster wheel your entire life, always falling a little further behind, funding your masters while believing you are free.  Your obligation is always increasing.  The further you get ahead, the more indebted you are.  And when the scheme crashes, you will beg, cry out, demand a Strong Leader to take over.  Worked for Germany, worked for Russia.  You'll get what you want.  Good and hard.  Vaseline is for sissies.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:37 | 1505029 Capitalist10
Capitalist10's picture

The problem is $66 - $144 trillion in unfunded liabilities for Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:40 | 1505031 Capitalist10
Capitalist10's picture

Any way to delete a duplicate post?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:43 | 1505051 fuu
fuu's picture

nope, you can edit it to not be a dupe before someone replies.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:59 | 1505135 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

...and now it's too late!  I couldn't agree more.  The communists always scream and holler about warfare (welfare for corporations), but they always seem to forget the welfare for individuals.  Shut down the entire DoD, even the constitutional parts, and we would still have a gargantuan spending problem.  The truth doesn't matter to angry people focused on classism however.  There's nothing wrong with capitalism.  It is fascism and communism that are to blame here.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:38 | 1505034 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Default solves the problem. It repairs the balance sheet. It is the solution. Whether through hyperinflation or repudiation doesn't matter to the government.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:01 | 1505142 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Default only works if the spending stops.  What is true for individuals is still true for governments in the long run.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:01 | 1505964 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Default and we won't be able to borrow anymore for several years. The spending will have to match the revenues. In the meantime, we can pass a balanced budget amendment.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:43 | 1505047 fuu
fuu's picture

The problem is human nature, there is no way around it.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:24 | 1505243 V in PA
V in PA's picture

The problem is a small sector of the population is manipulating the masses and encouraging them to go against their gut feeling (scaring the shit out of them). Sadly for many, it doesn't take much.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:29 | 1505273 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

That is true, but the human psychology at work here is not what some might think.  It is a lot easier to justify theft when you are not the one doing it.  Most people have no problem having someone else steal on their behalf.  We cannot do that legally as individuals, but governments do it all of the time.  I have to live within my means.  My wife absolutely hates it, my children complain, and it is painful for our family.  However, we live within our means none the less.

As you already know then, this is why republics fail.  Eventually they fall into mob rule, and eventually that mob's morality justifies theft.  Worse, once it reaches that point, there is no righting the ship without a collapse or revolution.  The question that sometimes keeps me up at night is if this is 1775 or 1928.  The more I think about it, the more I feel, and believe logically, that this is 1775.  We are nearing a revolution in this country, for the bankster's agenda will not be acceptable by a vast number of patriots.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 13:02 | 1505429 escargot
escargot's picture

I don't have a wife or children.  I decided a long time ago that such luxuries were way beyond my "means", not to mention level of maturity.  I HOPE that this is 1775, but that's because nobody depends on me and I've got nothing to lose.  Bring it on, and bring it on quickly!  Flush this whole corrupt fu%&$ system down the toilet. 

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:08 | 1505179 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

It's good to see you here.

I'll be stopping by the café later. A bientôt!

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:18 | 1505231 flattrader
flattrader's picture

What? Are you trying to confuse people with this?

The problem is two unfunded wars, irresponsible tax cuts for the wealthiest, and a financial sector out of control.

They want to believe it's all Obama's fault and it's only happened in the last 2 1/2 yrs.

One only need to look to see otherwise.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:59 | 1505927 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture



2006 Budget by Bush Jr and Republican House and Senate:

$2.66 trillion


2010 Budget by Obama and Democrat House and Senate:

$3,552 trillion


The same two wars are going on under both presidents and congresses, yet spending increased by nearly $1 trillion. Don't believe your lying eyes. Listen to what Paul Krugman and the media tells you.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:50 | 1506157 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

True enough, but $2.66 trillion was not a static number.   It was an oncoming train, a cruise ship under full steam, an elephant in the middle of a shit.    You don't stop those things on a thin dime.   The momentum of the trajectory was inexorable!   We should be talking only of what Obama has fostered as new debt, not the continuance of the fiat high that we've been on for decades.   He has certainly not done much to stand in front of the the onslaught of government debt.

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 11:11 | 1507652 pops
pops's picture

As I recall, that whole Iraq mess was supposed to cost us "only" 80 billion....and we were going to be reimbursed by the sale of Iraqi oil.  Surely they wouldn't lie to us.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:36 | 1505319 ZeroAffect
ZeroAffect's picture

Great post, Jesse but let me help ya a little, this is what took the US off the tracks: putting the Fed in charge of our currency, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, various other under-funded entitlement programs, annual Trillon+++++ deficits, regulations that strangle business and policies that promote business to flee to countries w/few regulations & low wages, CONgressional repeal of Glass-Steagall and then dictacting to GSE's they must buy subprime mortgages made to folks who could never repay the debt, high taxes on INCOME PRODUCERS, perpetual inceases of the debt ceiling, perpetually re-election of Barney Frank and other like minded criminals, TARP, 900B$ 'pork barrel' spending bills to fund non-existent 'shovel-ready' jobs, a couple of unfunded wars (oops - forgot Libya so make that 3 unfunded wars).

Of course this is the short list of what took the US off the tracks. Electing a POTUS whose intent is to destroy a great nation could start another discussion.    

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:36 | 1505865 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Your conclusion doesn't follow.  I can break things so I can't fix them...and we maybe just did that.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:46 | 1505902 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

You're a fucking dumbass 0bot


Repeal the tax cuts and you get $120 billion

End the two wars (keep the one in Libya going), you get another $120 billion


Now you have a $1.5 trillion deficit. What now Einstein?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:55 | 1506174 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

So, if a solution, or two, doesn't fix the entire problem in one fell swoop, we shouldn't entertain them?   We got here a buck at a time so those "little" fixes seem like a few of the many that should be employed.  Each suggestion should be evaluated on its own merit, rather than discarded because the whole problem won't go away, or not.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:32 | 1504995 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Default does not mean you get released from YOUR SHARE of the obligations so blithely bandied about.

What backs a government bond is faith in government's ability to put a gun to your head to make the bondholder rich in exchange for helping government rule over you.

Even if there is a real default (there won't be one, the payment terms will simply be altered a little), the gun doesn't go away.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:44 | 1505053 jkruffin
jkruffin's picture

What you talking about Willis? LOL   If the US doesn't have to pay, then none of us have to pay any of their debts.  America defaults as a group, we all stop paying everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:08 | 1505178 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Right on Einstein.

Guess how much it will cost to fill up the tank of your Hummer when that happens.

A cup of REAL coffee? Forget about it.

Yes, everyone stops paying everything....cuz nobody can afford it.

That's when the uprising starts.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:40 | 1505341 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Hmmm...are you saying det jubilee will set off hyper-inflation?  Must think about it..not sure if that's correct. 

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:03 | 1505977 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Several countries have defaulted on public debt and they are still in existence and people are still alive in those countries.

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 13:00 | 1507845 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Meglio Vivere Cent'Anni da Leone che un Giorno da Pecora


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:40 | 1505327 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

OK, rather than just junking you, I'll try to explain.  Because a lot of people are just waking up to the fact that they've been herded and stampeded from one fear-based promotion to another in order to get them to willingly give up wealth and power to their overseers.

The paper money system went worldwide when Nixon reneged on the fake gold backing in 1971.  All economies of the world went to debt-based paper money or simply printed toilet-paper money.  The economies were all interlocked.  Pumping of money caused a worldwide real estate boom, with wildly inflated valuations.  It is crashing.  They are trying to hold it up with crazy unprecedented amounts of more counterfeit money to 'just make it all go away'.  It cannot work.  The panic behind all the current maneuvering in the world right now is that if one bank goes, the rest will go in a cascade.

Do you really think there is not a Next Level planned for when this happens?

Do you have a hint what it might be?  The MSM publishes one article after another of what it will be.  What they hope to do is to impose a One World Bank with a One World Currency.  Acceptance of this currency demolishes whatever national sovereignty any nation has.  Acceptance of this currency will make sure the creditors get paid, even if it is by taking over property in the nations that default (as being discussed for Greece selling islands and other public works).  Acceptance of this currency means a new form of government, a world government.  Acceptance of this currency means you will get a shiny new set of chains to lug around.  Whoever else gets bailed out or has their debts forgiven, it will not be you, not if you are already a serf under the existing scheme.  The whole thing is built on your serfdom.  Whatever else happens, you are still going to be a serf, only next time, the freedom they are blaming the current crash on will be permanently crushed.

They will get away with it if the crash cuts off your power for a few weeks.  Or if trucking can be shut down for a few weeks.  People will demand a fix.  The fix will come in the form of chains.  Think it can't happen in the U.S.?  Has the U.S. ever confiscated gold coins, made it a ten-year felony to get caught in possession of them?  Has the U.S. ever rounded up citizens and put them in concentration camps?  Has the U.S. ever attacked other countries that could not harm us?  Tortured? Put death warrants on citizens without any due process?  Kidnapped? Imprisoned without charges? Spied on citizens without warrants? Laid on wage and price controls?

Ha!  A default doesn't free you.  It is your hard labor sentence in the Gulag.  That's why it is being engineered, right now, before your very eyes, and it is inevitable.

Oh, yeah, don't forget: When governments crash their currencies and crowds come out in the streets with torches, pitchforks, and rope, WAR is always used to distract them and give them an outside threat to concentrate on.  Each one always has to be bigger than the last.

The only hope is to wake enough people up in time.  To say no to debt.  To say no to more war.  To say no to being a serf.

If you don't know what your rights are, you don't have any.  Your rights are yours.  They are only yours if you claim them, yourself.  Nobody can grant you rights, and your government cannot protect them.  Especially when society breaks down because government has destroyed the division-of-labor economy.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:44 | 1505355 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Now this, I don't agree with. Gold and Silver will function as money...we won't need a phony world currency. And "they" on the top, will be bankrupt and removed.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:58 | 1505380 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

That's why I mentioned acceptance of the new currency.  If we don't accept it, it fails.  And good riddance.

But the banking system that creates currency on your promissory note, then takes title to the property when you miss a few payments, thus ending up with all the property and having done absolutely nothing to earn it, will NEVER allow gold and silver to be the 'official' (backed by guns) currency.  And they own the government.  With all its guns.

There will be a full-on attempt to herd the scared little farm animals into another debt-based inflating currency.  Only widespread popular rejection will foil the plan.

And P.S.: Nobody is going to be forgiven any debt.  Someone else will 'buy the note' at a discount and still come after you for the pound of flesh.  You will either slave away to pay it or they will take your assets.  Personally or nationwide, same thing.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:00 | 1505730 pods
pods's picture

Nice summary TS.  People always forget the deflationary side of the ledger.  They need that to take control of the real property.

They gain lots of fiats from interest, then turn that into real property when they cause deflation/defaults.

Good gig if you can get it.


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:38 | 1505333 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

If the US doesn't have to pay, then none of us have to pay any of their debts.  America defaults as a group, we all stop paying everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

True dat. 

Debt Jubilee approaches for all. For some stopped paying entirely a year ago. I'm hearing CC Companies currently accepting 15-20 cents on the dollar to settle. Writing is on the wall folks.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:33 | 1505005 Tense INDIAN
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:35 | 1505009 oobrien
oobrien's picture

People talk about debt.

But isn't the real issue growth?

An off-shored economy can't grow.  We're fucked till the jobs come back.

How can a government get revenue if 51 percent of the population are deemed to poor to pay taxes?

McJobs just aren't cutting it.

We need factories and the reemergence of a strong middle class.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:43 | 1505049 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Haven't you heard the news?

We don't need no steenken smokestacks.

We're all going to get rich with shared sacrifice, which is code word for stealing from our neighbors, because we deserve what they have more than they do.

We'll all share in their sacrifice, see?

Why work?  Better to share the wealth.  And won't it be satisfying to see those rich folks put in their place?  They only got that way by stepping on us to get where they are today, so they deserve to be destroyed.  They're destroying the planet, too.


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:06 | 1505161 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

Fascists have been using communists as their puppets for a very long time, and Obama is a prime example.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:14 | 1505210 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Isn't it nice to have such wide range of choices?

You get to pick between communists or fascists.  Left or right.  On your knees or on your belly.  Freedom of choice.

Go, team!  Sling a pie at the other side!

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:01 | 1506214 Don Keot
Don Keot's picture

What we need to focus on is a three letter word  J O B S  (Joe Blieden)  Yes and in all 57 states (Barracks Oblama)  Stupid is as stupid does.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:08 | 1505998 Rhodin
Rhodin's picture

We'll all share in their sacrifice, see?

Shared sacrifice.....Hmmmm.....Sounds a bit like cannibalism to me.  

Financial canibilism at first.....but later?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:49 | 1505074 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Growth is a fraud.  They think they can rely on growth; that growth for growth's sake is the goal.  Well it is child trying to wear the same clothes for years sooner or later the seams burst and the belt won't buckle.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:59 | 1505130 anony
anony's picture

Don't separate the two.  Debt is necessary for growth.  But the debt that has been accumulated has gone into the wrong direction, particklelerly Financial Produtcts of a prohibitively derived and leveraged nature, and 2) UNreal Esate, commercial and residential, and 3) make-work highway projects paying hundreds of billions to highway contractors that support politicians who are all living very large at our expense.  Those highway bills are the least srcutinized of all our spending.  In my town right now there are three $25,000,000 contracts to re-construct three perfectly goodv on ramps.  Completely a boondoggle to the crooks who are the owners of those contracts and the government employees they pay off to get them.

But you're absolutely right about Growth being essential for the country to move forward.  And the jobs won't come back until the children's children are ready to work for subsistence wages or a new paradigm of what to do with all our hundreds of millions of people who can't find jobs in any field that doesn't require an Harvard B school degree, or Technology degree.  As for the rest...........................

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:10 | 1505185 Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

If there's no more cheap oil, there is no more growth.

And with interest bearing business consumer debt, any growth which does occur will benefit players in just one direction: the banks.

Ordinary wage earners get nothing.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 13:01 | 1505254 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Debt is not necessarry for growth. For levered growth maybe, but we see what happens with leverage..once growth stops you get creamed. Innovation leads to growth. Look at Apple all that growth and zero debt.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:15 | 1505214 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

I guess you didn't get the memo. It's a jobless recovery.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:07 | 1505993 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

You can't depend on perpetual economic growth to fund perpetual government growth. We;ve hit the growth wall. It's happened to every empire/country in history. 

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:36 | 1505016 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture



QQQ only $1.50 from 3-year highs with fear and panic in the air.


Maybe some gold stock CEO's should hire William Shatner as their spokesman and start running some funny TV ads????

Or maybe make some gold plated iPads and iPhones??


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:40 | 1505039 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Let's hear the beginning of your apology to General Jim, momo. You are working on it in the land of free gas and dollar burgers aren't you? LOL...

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:45 | 1505055 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture



I am not arguing about gold.  My beef is with the gold stocks, constantly Cramerized with outlandish price projections on the XAU and gold to $3,000, etc.

By the way, poor General Jim's $35 million investment in TRX is losing more value yet again today.

He should have invested in PCLN or something instead.  He could have easily turned his $35 million into $200 million and retired.

No more 14 hour flights to Africa.  No more babysitting angry CIGA's and buying new fax machines after Duval douses them with fire extinguishers.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:51 | 1505084 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Figures someone like you would say one needs more than 35 million to retire.



Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:37 | 1505019 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

This is an excellent article. Tax slave (above) is right. Just a bunch of sharecroppers working for the government.

Whenever anyone tells me "raise the debt limit or else" I always buy 20 bucks worth of or else. Fuck em. Let's have this big default and see what changes.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:48 | 1505068 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Thank you!

A few people are waking up the Human Farming meme.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:37 | 1505022 jkruffin
jkruffin's picture

Only in SCAMerica!!!! Is an Ipad worth more than your 3 story house and Lexus.  ROFLMAO

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:37 | 1505027 goldm3mb3r
goldm3mb3r's picture

Debt you can believe in. I want to order more ASE but my missus thinks that I have too many already. Bad times.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 13:28 | 1505571 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

My missus demanded that I buy more today. I did.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:38 | 1505033 caerus
caerus's picture

von mises? excellent...

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:43 | 1505050 marcusfenix
marcusfenix's picture

they should put a giant stone slab in front of the new york fed and it should read:

through me you enter the city of woes,

through me you enter into eternal pain,

through me you enter the population of loss,

abandon all hope, you who enter here

seems appropriate don't you think?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:46 | 1505059 Mercury
Mercury's picture

How can item #1 -Income taxes- and item #10 -income tax breaks- BOTH be bad choices?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:48 | 1505067 Syrin
Syrin's picture

Because he's a dumb ass.   See my post below.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:25 | 1505262 Doyle Hargraves
Doyle Hargraves's picture

Anyone who is so ignorant about deficits being tied to tax cuts for the 'rich' (adequately defined by the political class as anyone more successful than the political class were before they joined the machine) has no understanding of 'crowding out'. Gee I would love to hire someone, maybe even open a 2nd location. Too bad my taxes are too high to have the cash flow to do it (another myth you need debt to expand and have 'real' growth), and even if I were to open a 2nd location or even hire some more workers, I am now on the hook for healthcare expenses, SS, disabilty, workman's comp, medicare, and a bookkeeper if they are not related to me. Screw it is what most people say.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 11:46 | 1505064 Syrin
Syrin's picture

The tax cuts under Bush generated $300 billion MORE in federal revenue.   The tax cuts under Reagan generated $300 billion MORE in revenvue.   The tax cuts under Kennedy generated $200 billion MORE in revenue.   Care to look at the f***ing facts before chanting your regressive mantra?   Tell you what genius, what do you think will happen tho the economy if you jack up taxes more?   Jobs creation and business expansion?   get your head out of your ass.   The same results in three different decades under both parties.   Facts speak for themselves.   The frosting on the cake?   10 million more jobs under Kennedy, 12 million under Reagan, 6 million under Bush.   Yeah those evil revenue generating, job creating tax cuts are part of our current problem.   Dumb ass.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:01 | 1505149 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

"Tax Cuts For The Rich" is a code-phrase.  It announces to the world, "I'm a lying, cheating, envious, destructive tapeworm with no self esteem, and I want to destroy anyone who has more than I do so I won't feel like such an impotent little weenie fartlump."  The announcement draws others of like mind into an insular crowd, so they won't have to deal with feelings of inadequacy whenever they run across a Real Man.  They can all nod and feel wise with each other as long as living examples of ability, integrity, and success don't intrude on their little delusion.  They can pretend to be kind to old women and street urchins, as long as the dole comes at the expense of those who actually produce something of value, because it sure can't come from them.  They foment hatred for the successful, to erase the indigity of being a parasite.  They preach that the parasite deserves more, more, more, and the parasite wouldn't be a parasite if only it weren't for the successful who feed them.  Those who are made to unwillingly fund everything are universally hated for it.

To those who repeat that phrase, "Tax Cuts For The Rich": best not speak it aloud in public.  Go ahead and spew your hatred and your confession of spiteful inadequacy from the anonymity of your keyboard.  But watch out if you blurt it out in a restaurant.  The one who paid for your meal might call you out on it.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:03 | 1505157 Syrin
Syrin's picture

Amen bro.   See my posts above.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:11 | 1505197 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Well said!

This little clip says a lot ....

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:53 | 1505383 ZeroAffect
ZeroAffect's picture

Taxing the PRODUCTION of income is an ABOMINATION and should be permanetly and forever banned.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:47 | 1505342 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture


Anyone stupid enough to say that tax cuts lead to revenue growth must be a Republican regardless of your Kennedy reference.

Here's the other side of the story.....

When George Bush came into office, Revenue to GDP was ~37%.  When he left office, it was ~26%.  The only bump in the middle was due to everyone and their barber using their houses as ATM machines and recklessly accumulating so much debt that it nearly broke the spine of the country. At the end of 2007 when the Bush administration was taking in maximum revenue, Revenue to GDP was at the 40 year average.  So all those Bush tax cuts got us to average.  LOL.     

In some far, distant corner of the universe, let's assume your claim was correct: Bush tax cuts led to the temporary bump in GDP that we experienced between 2003 - 2007.  If you take this to be true, then you must also say the Bush tax cuts led to the largest accumulation of personal debt in American history. Is this the house of cards you're looking for?  Why are you only looking at the left side of the ledger?  

While campaigning in 2008, McBush tried to say the same thing:  tax cuts lead to economic growth. Apparently McBush was hoping everyone would forget that he voted AGAINST the Bush tax cuts in 2001.  

Politicians and their lemmings...  they're so funny.  


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 12:48 | 1505368 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

The stupid Laffer curve was invented to promote the false premise that there is some 'ideal' level of government taxation.

Still, the back side of that curve is valid.  Taxation and spending is capital destruction.  Add in the regulations that make it so there is more freedom to make and sell stuff in Communist countries than in the U.S., and it is plain to see.  Our tapeworm government consumes too much.  More taxes will only kill the economy faster.  Too few working, too many eating.  Anyone with money to invest will flee the jurisdiction of those who think money belongs to those who don't create the the wealth that it represents.

One thing is sure.  With higher taxes, the destruction of the economy will only accelerate.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:21 | 1505697 Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

Anyone with money to invest will flee the jurisdiction of those who think money belongs to those who don't create the the wealth that it represents.

Seriously? Where do you think they are going to flee to? Turkey?

Ordinary workers are the ones which create economic wealth with their muscle, brain power, and ingenuity. Not fat cat major shareholders. Don't forget that.

"One thing is sure.  With higher taxes, the destruction of the economy will only accelerate."

If the US doesn't tax the wealthy then it has to borrow the money it needs from the wealthy.

Which means the money has to be paid back eventually to the wealthy, with interest. It's a neat scam.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:02 | 1505970 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Ordinary workers are the ones which create economic wealth with their muscle, brain power, and ingenuity.

Then why aren't they creating more wealth for you Tax Pigs to suck off from?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!