This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Guest Post: In Defense Of Liberty Extremism

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by James E. Miller of the Ludwig von Mises Institute of Canada,

It’s a safe statement to make that when Mitt Romney is finally crowned the GOP nominee for president during the Republican National Convention, any vestige of liberty will be firmly wiped away from the ballot box come this November.  For those who have followed his campaign in the United States, Congressman Ron Paul has been swindled out of the nomination through various underhanded tricks at state conventions.  The explanation is straightforward: Paul’s views are not comfortable within the Republican Party establishment.  Today’s GOP is a party of banker interests, imperialism, and clandestine state empowerment while claiming to represent small, limited government.  Romney embraces this platform while Paul’s decades-long voting record stands in opposition.

For towing the party line, Romney has been anointed the “electable” candidate while Paul has been deemed an extremist.  The GOP declares this while the media parrots the message as it does every election cycle.  To the pundits and writers who cover political affairs, only moderation can win over a large electorate.  The people don’t look kindly upon radicalism or so it’s alleged.

Ron Paul’s campaign manager, Jesse Benton, has even gone as far as to discourage dedicated Paulians from voicing their discontentment with the status quo.  In a recent New York Times article, Benton shares his disinterest with so-called “true believers”:

Some true believers want to “dress in black, stand on a hill and say, ‘Smash the state,’ ” said Mr. Benton, who is married to one of Mr. Paul’s granddaughters. But “it’s not our desire to have floor demonstrations. That would cost us a lot more than it would get us.”

The often referred to rule of American political campaigns is that candidates should appeal to the party’s base during primary season but once nominated, should strive to attract the “center.”  This strategy is totally befitting for a whorish game like politics because it allows those seeking public office to change their rhetoric and tune in order to attract as many voters as possible.  In politics, principle is placed on the back burner for the glory of supreme victory.  The “center” electorate is just a term used for the majority looking to government for what they mistakenly believe to be a free lunch.

To Benton, the political establishment, and the state-worshipping press, moderation is the rational choice of anyone looking to be taken seriously.

But what Benton and like-minded thinkers don’t understand or refuse to acknowledge is that ideas don’t make a lasting impact unless they are logically consistent.  Ron Paul was unique in that he stuck to his message for three decades and never wavered.  He paid the price with being marginalized while his beliefs were portrayed as archaic.  Paul is by no means a radical in that he recognizes a proper role for the state to guarantee the liberties of people are protected yet he was rejected just the same.  For all the abuse and concessions Paulians have had to make, the Republican Party has awarded state delegations with large numbers of Paul supporters “nosebleed” seats at the National Convention; just behind the delegations from Northern Mariana.  Benton’s advice of toning it down and playing nice did little to change the reception from a political party not the least interested in representing genuine liberty.  This rejection, while predictable, should serve as an important lesson for advocates of individual freedom.  Temperance in philosophy may be the less arduous road to take but it will not bring a lasting change.

Because of the forces pitted against it, the incremental approach toward a free society has little chance of succeeding.  For every step forward comes two or more back towards socialism or its ugly cousin of corporate fascism.  The ratcheting effect of state power may not be readily apparent but it is in constant motion.  The heart of the state lies not with the legislature that is still accountable to voters but within the multitude of bureaucracies that are needlessly large and unaccountable. It is the bureaucracies that are given the authority of law enforcement.  They are usually staffed by people who enjoy wielding state power and are always on the search for an excuse to exercise more.

The result has been various states grotesquely inserting themselves into all aspects of Western society.  Chipping away at their stranglehold with half-hearted ideals helps little when the statist influence is everywhere.  It must be opposed without remorse on all grounds for any headway to be made.  Benton’s demeaning characterization of black-clothed activists who refuse to buddy up with what they see as evil undermines liberty’s very cause.  It is the radicals, not the moderates, who hold the water for the freedom movement.  They provide the intellectual vision for what could be achieved.  And when push comes to shove, they will not sell out.

Liberty is far too important to be dumbed down, conceded, or sold for a marginal victory.  The case for freedom is to be unapologetic because it embodies the great desire for justice above all else.  The ruling class within or closely affiliated with the central state operates outside the bounds of moral law.  Murder, theft, and fraud are all dear functions of government.  Behind the propaganda, aggression is always the true nature of the state.  While it is certainly true that easing the burden of taxation or cutting down on the amount of imperial crusades are laudable goals, they should not be ends in themselves.  The goal is liberation from institutionalized coercion and nothing less.  Murray Rothbard once likened the cause of liberty to the oppression faced by the people of Ireland by the British when he wrote:

the goal of ending English oppression — that could have been done by the instantaneous action of men’s will: by the English simply deciding to pull out of the country.

The fact that of course such decisions do not take place instantaneously is not the point; the point is that the very failure is an injustice that has been decided upon and imposed by the perpetrators of injustice — in this case, the English government. In the field of justice, man’s will is all; men can move mountains, if only men so decide.

The pervasiveness of the state is the most compelling crisis of our time and is not limited to the Western world alone.  Economically and morally, those laws and freedoms which sustain civilized life are withering away.  Economists speak in terms of government spending crowding out private investment because the money squandered on political projects must come from the pockets of the public.  The effect also applies to the notions of self-responsibility, a natural right to acquired property, and the unwillingness to employ violence which have all been purposefully tamed and made acceptable through the actions of the welfare-warfare state apparatus.  In essence, the ability to live life with little interference from Leviathan has become crowded out.

Countering this trend is no easy task.  Government attracts large amounts of resources not just through theft but also by attracting power hungry individuals.  Those who earn a living through the police state, the educational establishment, the mainstream press, and the central bank-controlled financial system enjoy their state privileges and will do what it takes to maintain them.  Educating the public on both the benefits of liberty and to withdraw “consent to its own enslavement” as Etienne de la Boetie put it is difficult to carry on against entrenched interests.  It is nonetheless a fight worth carrying on with one clear objective in mind: for all men to live free from coercion.  It is a passion best embodied in a quote from 19th century abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison who when asked why he spoke so fervently on the need to end slavery immediately, he retorted

“I have need to be all on fire, for I have mountains of ice about me to melt.”


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:01 | 2743574 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Create wealth in the physical people and assets you choose to associate with and employ.  Write in Ron Paul and sleep well.  The emperor has no clothes, hasten the collapse so we can all begin again.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:14 | 2743619 mikla
mikla's picture

You assert we have a, "highly stable, highly-oppressive system" that cannot be incrementally improved through the existing process.

I agree.

In this sense, a "given-elected-official" is himself irrelevant, whether he is elected or not.  Perhaps interesting as a symbol, but not significant in any practical sense.

We can find fault all-over-the-place, but in reality, the "core" issue is that it is ridiculous that anyone pays attention at all to this bungling bunch of children in the Far-Away-Land of D.C.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:17 | 2743635 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Correct, it is now simply more about exposing the kleptocrats for what they really are.

The electorate is, on average, a moron and completely screwed either way.  Hedge accordingly, that is all you can really do anyway.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:42 | 2743714 Dalago
Dalago's picture

Jesse Benton NEEDS to be fired along with Trygve Olson.  These are moles and need to be rid of immediately.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 14:48 | 2744349 Yophat
Yophat's picture

First you have to define Jesse's intent (who he's a mole for and why). 

Here's a few more names -

Peter Thiel - Ron Paul's biggest fundraiser (both overtly and covertly). PayPal/Facebook/Palantir Technologies/etc...billionaire, 44, who is openly gay and is ramping up the Republican (left?) via GoProud...the host of Homocon...

On the Board of Directors for the Hoover Institution and a member of the Steering Committee of The Bilderberg Group.

Bruce Fein - senior adviser to Ron Paul on legal matters concerning his 2012 Campaign run. Bruce Fein is a lawyer in the United States who specializes in constitutional and international law. Fein has written numerous articles on constitutional issues for The Washington Times,, The New York Times, Legal Times, and is active on the issues of civil liberties. He has also worked for the American Enterprise Institute and the Heritage Foundation, both conservative think tanks, as an analyst and commentator.

Fein is a principal in a government affairs and public relations firm, The Lichfield Group (google them), in Washington, D.C. and he is also a resident scholar at the Turkish Coalition of America.

Doug Wead - senior adviser to Ron Paul for 2012 Campaign run. He is a motivational speaker, a Bush family friend, and was a campaign adviser to George H.W. Bush in the 1988 presidential election. He was Special Assistant to U.S. President George H. W. Bush, and is the author of more than thirty books, including the New York Times best-seller All the Presidents’ Children: Triumph and Tragedy in the Lives of the First Families.

In 1979, Doug Wead joined entertainer Pat Boone and Dan O’Neill in co-founding Mercy Corps. In 1991, Wead provided initial funding to help launch a Mercy Corps economic recovery program in the newly formed Republic of Kazakhstan. Mercy Corps is a global aid agency engaged in transitional environments that have experienced some sort of shock: natural disaster, economic collapse, or conflict. Mercy Corps, in the last 14 years, has founded 12 different finance institutions. Since 1979, Mercy Corps has provided more than US$1.95 billion in assistance to people in 107 nations. Supported by headquarters offices in North America and Europe, the agency's unified global programs employ 3,700 staff worldwide and reach nearly 16.7 million people in more than 40 countries. (i.e. - CIA NGO)

Lewis E. Lehrman: Independently wealthy (the Rite Aid drugstore fortune), a scholar, philanthropist, and longtime student of monetary policy. He served with Ron Paul on Ronald Reagan's Gold Commission which was instigated by Ron Paul. He and Ron Paul later wrote a book together recommending gold titled "The Case for Gold" -

He later wrote a book pushing for the use of gold as one world currency -

A signatory to the infamous Project For a New American Century document, a pre-9/11 Neo-Con blueprint which yearned for a "new Pearl Harbor" to justify U.S. military expansionism across the globe. He is a former member of the Board of Directors of the Project for the New American Century, as well as a Trustee to the American Enterprise Institute, the Manhattan Institute, and the Heritage Foundation. He was a former director for the Heritage Foundation. Lehrman was a managing director of Morgan Stanley in the late 1980s. He was also an investor in George W. Bush's Arbusto Energy. He and Gilder were awarded the National Humanities Medal in an Oval Office ceremony on Thursday, November 10, 2005. The Medal was presented by President George W. Bush. He's a close family friend of the Bush family.

He lectured at Hillsdale College in Michigan, in the Ludwig von Mises “Champions of Freedom” series. Founder of the Lehrman Institute who's director was Barton Biggs of Brookings Institution. Bruce Rabb is partner of the Wall Street law firm, Stroock Stroock & Lavan, organized the Lehrman Institute and has been secretary of it since 1978.

The architect of the plan, Lewis Lehrman, a businessman and scholar, will present his program in an address October 5 at a conference in Washington on the how to return to a stable dollar. He will outline a five-step program to return America to a gold-backed currency within five years.

Murray Rothbard - Ron Paul's self declared mentor. During the early 1950s, he studied under the Austrian economist Ludwig von Mises at his seminars at New York University and was greatly influenced by Mises' book Human Action. Rothbard attracted the attention of the William Volker Fund, the main group that supported classical liberal scholars in the 1950s and early 1960s.

Rothbard began his consulting work for the Volker Fund in 1951. This relationship lasted until 1962, when the VF was dissolved. A major part of Rothbard's work for the VF consisted of reading and evaluating books, journal articles, and other materials. On the basis of written reports by Rothbard and another reader - Rose Wilder Lane - the VF's directors would decide whether to undertake massive distribution of particular works to public libraries. During the late 1950s, Rothbard was also an associate of Ayn Rand and her philosophy, Objectivism, along with several other students of Ludwig von Mises, such as George Reisman.

During the 1970s and 1980s, Rothbard was active in the Libertarian Party. He was frequently involved in the party's internal politics. He was one of the founders of the Cato Institute, and "came up with the idea of naming this libertarian think tank after Cato’s Letters, a powerful series of British newspaper essays by John Trenchard and Thomas Gordon which played a decisive influence upon America's Founding Fathers in fomenting the Revolution.

Lew Rockwell Jr - Ron Paul's congressional chief of staff from 1978 to 1982, was a vice president of Ron Paul & Associates, the corporation that published the Ron Paul Political Report and the Ron Paul Survival Report. Founder of Rockwell remains a friend and advisor to Paul—accompanying him to major media appearances; promoting his candidacy on the blog; publishing his books; and peddling an array of the avuncular Texas congressman's recent writings and audio recordings. A proponent of the Austrian School of economics, and chairman of the Ludwig von Mises Institute. In the mid-1970s Rockwell went to work at Hillsdale College. In his time at Hillsdale College, Rockwell started the Hillsdale College Press, founded the school's monthly publication, Imprimis, and worked in fundraising and public relations. He met Murray Rothbard at Hillsdale College.

Milton Friendman - an American economist, statistician, and author who taught at the University of Chicago for more than three decades. Friedman was an economic advisor to conservative President Ronald Reagan. Friedman spent 1941–43 working on wartime tax policy for the Federal Government, as an advisor to senior officials of the United States Department of the Treasury. As a Treasury spokesman during 1942 he advocated a Keynesian policy of taxation, and during this time he helped to invent the payroll withholding tax system. During 1946, Friedman accepted an offer to teach economic theory at the University of Chicago (a position opened by departure of his former professor Jacob Viner to Princeton University). Friedman would work for the University of Chicago for the next 30 years. There he helped build an intellectual community that produced a number of Nobel Prize winners, known collectively as the Chicago School of Economics. Aaron Director was a famous professor at the University of Chicago Law School who played a central role in the development of the Chicago school of economics with his brother-in-law, Milton Friedman, the leader of the “Chicago School.” From 1977 on, he was affiliated with the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. He was also a member of the Heritage Foundation as well as the Mont Pelerin Society.

He also played a founding role in the American Enterprise Institute.

Grover Glenn Norquist - American lobbyist, conservative activist, and founder and president of Americans for Tax Reform. He is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. Referring to Norquist's activities as head of ATR, Steve Kroft, in a 60 Minutes episode that aired on November 20, 2011, claimed that "Norquist has been responsible, more than anyone else, for rewriting the dogma of the Republican Party."

As a nonprofit organization, Americans for Tax Reform is not required to disclose the identity of its contributors. Critics such as Sen. Alan Simpson, have asked Norquist to disclose his contributors; he has declined but has said that ATR is financed by direct mail and other grassroots fundraising efforts. According to CBS News, "a significant portion appears to come from wealthy individuals, foundations and corporate interests."

While in college, Norquist was an editor at the Harvard Crimson and helped to publish the libertarian-leaning Harvard Chronicle.

Norquist traveled to several war zones to help support anti-Soviet guerrilla armies in the second half of the 1980s. He worked with a support network for Oliver North's efforts with the Nicaraguan Contras and other insurgencies, in addition to promoting U.S. support for groups including Mozambique's RENAMO and Jonas Savimbi's UNITA in Angola and helping to organize anti-Soviet forces in Laos.

In 2004, Norquist helped California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger with his plan to privatize the CalPERS system. In 2010, Norquist joined the advisory board of GOProud, a political organization representing conservative gays, lesbians, transgendered people, and their allies, for which he was criticized by the Family Research Council. He has served as a monthly "Politics" columnist and contributing editor to The American Spectator.

Along with Campaign for Liberty coordinator Michael D. Ostrolenk (who serves as President and is a Board Member), Norquist founded the American Conservative Defense Alliance. He also founded a front organization called the Islamic Free Market Institute in 1998 together with a Muslim activitist long associated with Muslim Brotherhood operatives named Khaled Saffuri “to promote a better understanding of Islam in America.”

Grover's lackeys - John Tate and Jesse Benton

Jesse Benton - Ron Paul's 2012 Campaign Chairman. Campaign manager on Rand Paul's 2010 U.S. Senate race from May 2010. Communications director on Rep. Ron Paul's 2008 presidential campaign starting in March 2007. President of C.I.C Solutions, a Washington, D.C. based consulting firm. Benton has served as press secretary at Americans for Tax Reform, communications director at the American Conservative Union, director of public policy and external affairs at the Performance Institute and communications director and policy consultant for the Liberty Coalition. Media coordinator and board member, American Conservative Defense Alliance. He has also worked on campaigns and in corporate and trade association government relations and external affairs. Alumnus of Mary Washington College.

John Tate:

John is a long-time political operative who has spent the last 26 years working in the political, lobbying and non-profit world in the areas of high dollar fundraising, direct mail, political strategy, grassroots activism and non-profit management.

He is the founder and President of JFT Consulting, Inc. a consulting firm that specializes in political strategy, fundraising and grassroots lobbying. John served as the National Political Director for The Ron Paul Presidential Campaign Committee and is currently President of the newly formed Campaign for Liberty.

Prior to joining Campaign for Liberty, John served as the Vice President, Membership for the Leadership Institute. In this role he headed up a department of LI staff that contacted and visited supporters nationwide to show them and raise funds for special targeted LI programs. In his 4 years at LI this program raised nearly $4 million. He also taught at many of LI's schools.

Before joining LI, John spent 14 years with the National Right to Work Committee, serving as Vice President from 1998 to 2004. As Vice President he oversaw all state and federal lobbying efforts, public relations, the affiliated state and federal PACs for Right to Work and a direct mail and telemarketing fundraising operation that raised more than $23 million to combat Big Labor’s coercive power over workers.

John began teaching political strategy in 1983 and has taught at many schools and seminars through the years. He is a sought-after speaker on winning political technology and grass-roots mobilization at the local, state and national level and is author of The Grassroots Activist Manual.

Gary Howard, Jr - Ron Paul's Press Secretary. Press secretary to Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) after serving as press secretary on Rand Paul's campaign. Director of communications and digital media at the Campaign for Liberty. Former staffer of Senator David Vitter (who is partnered with Rand Paul in sponsoring legislation to end the Constitutional birthright clause - 14th Amendment). Member of the Competitive Enterprise Institute (tied into the whole range of associated financiers - Koch, Scaife, etc)....with most involved in the CEI tied to the American Enterprise Institute and the CATO Institute.

Senior Advisor Trygve Olson - (announced July 21, 2011) President of Viking Strategies, LLC and founder of, since Aug. 2010. Managing director at Mercury Public Affairs, LLC, Jan. 2008-Aug. 2010. e-political director on John McCain 2008, Jan.-July 2007. Belarus director for the International Republican Institute, 2001-07. Founding partner of Public Issue Management, 1998-2001. Managed the Jim Harsdorf for Congress campaign in Wisconsin, 1996. M.S. in economics and English from the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire.

Ted Anderson - (Midas Resources which is the parent company of Genesis Communications Network - i.e. Alex Jones) Midas Resources has been a Torch Bearer Supporter of the Campaign For Liberty (C4L) since it's inception. Also a supporter of Young Americans For Liberty (YAL) and many others. Ted Anderson is associated with Wallnuts Investment Club with the role of Principal.  Likely the source or stimulus for Ron's consistent recommendations for obtaining physical gold (all while he peddled his or he's lying on his federal disclosure forms - either way he's lying to somebody).

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 15:48 | 2744515 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Sorry my Fellow Americans,

Ron Paul is a bogus candidate. Ron Paul is a controlled-opposition candidate. Remember, Ron Paul is a 30+ years Washington, DC insider. Yes, Ron Paul ideas are somewhat different from his mainstream GOP bosses but things are not good in America. Consequently, there is naturally a distant even at the highest levels of political establishment. Even Pentagon is against another big war America cannot afford and will lose in a long run.

R. Paul was never critical of Romney. Ron Paul admits that he has "limited" support for the Romney's agenda.

Ron Paul's son is a staunch Romney's supporter. Ron Paul betrayed his supporters to support his own son. It is just a “family business.”

Remember Ralf Nader? The man had guts. Ron Paul concerned mostly about his family political future.

Ron Paul talks big but he is another corrupt and dishonest Washington insider.

Ron Paul wants to audit the FED. His son wants to audit Pentagon. WOW. Isn’t great to have another bogus government audit?

Ron Paul knows that the country was raped and robbed by the banksters but he never raised these issues.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:00 | 2744619 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

James Miller writes that gradual change is not possible of this corrupt state that controls everything.


So is he advocating armed overthrow of the government?


I mean if you're gonna say it, at least have the balls to say it.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:18 | 2743637 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

Ron Paul was simply not a credible candidate for President of the United States. His views were representative of a small cult of conspiracy theorists and right wing extremists. Ron Paul should never have been allowed to participate in the GOP primary OR the presidential race. Because Ron Paul was allowed to run as an official candidate, many American voters were tricked into thinking that Ron Paul was somehow a credible candidate. Nothing could be further from the truth. 

Ron Paul's view range from mildly amusing to downright delusional. Here is just a small sample of his appalling views:

  1. Ron Paul favors the abolishment of the Federal Reserve Bank of the United States of America. According to Professor Ben Bernanke (current Fed Chairman), this would cause economic devastation not only across America, but across the entire global economy.
  2. Ron Paul believes that children should have legal access to class A drugs including Marijuana, Cocaine, Heroine and Crystal Meth
  3. Mr Paul believes that America should completely end the war on terror and allow Islamic Extremists who hate our freedom to have free reign over innocent American citizens.

If Ron Paul was running for  leader of the Houston Moon Landing Conspiracy club, I would laugh in amusement, but running as a Presidential candidate with these views is nothing short of irresponsible. 

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:28 | 2743670 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Not your best work, but always appreciate your satire, especially when it strenghtens Ron Paul's position.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:43 | 2743719 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

A couple of things. Romney does not appeal to two important factions of the GOP: true conservatives and Ron Paul supporters and never will. 

Second, Ron Paul's principles do not need to be abandoned to win this election.  I've seen polling that shows Ron beating an easily beatable Obama.  However Romney will get crushed by Obama simply because NO ONE wants him.  He'll only collect anti-Obama votes.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:22 | 2743808 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 francis_sawyer hereby nominates MDB to be installed as the first president [dictator] of the next 'Islamic' country that peace loving Americans decide to invade & graciously bring FREEDOM to...

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:38 | 2743907 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

The corporatist elite and their political lackeys cannot allow the political/economic illusion to falter, even a little, to the bitter end. As the fraud begins to fade ever more, the elitist force intensifies, becoming almost rabid in its deflection.

Because the illusion has become the center of their being, a mythological justification for their existence. Their ideology has been a lie, they are not heroes and gods on earth, but monsters and criminals, and their life has been self-serving and meaningless, without significance and honor.

On Election Day;

Choice One - Stay home. Don't vote.

Choice two - If you must vote write in Ron Paul, or spoil your ballot.

Crash this rotten, corrupt system.  

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:31 | 2743863 aka Gil
aka Gil's picture

Not his/her best work? This im-poster mixes up his/her pitches. He/she throws some softball satire (which is occasionally humorous) but his/her bread and butter pitch is the straight-ahead propaganda in support of the status-quo. Anyone who spends this much time posting this type of bullshit on internet forums is either a sick bitch or a paid troll. I've read all the "you just don't get it" comments in defense of this poster, but I'm not buying it. This troll is probably a new variant developed specifically to evoke sympathy from unsuspecting ZH readers.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:48 | 2744180 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

He is a ZH sock puppet of the Tylers. If he wasn't he would have disappeared long ago.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 15:05 | 2744396 malikai
malikai's picture

...And a damn good one at that.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:53 | 2744197 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

I agree. I don't read MDB garbage anymore.

A couple of times was enough.

Mon, 09/03/2012 - 23:15 | 2759319 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

indeed. It makes me somewhat regret making my moniker "MeelionDollerBogus" counter-troll rather than sticking to "goldpricemodel" which is what I normally use and do.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:36 | 2743691 ljag
ljag's picture

Your slip is showing mr. MDB. IE "who hate our freedom" do U know this? I heard they love pour so-called freedom

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:58 | 2743764 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

- US Presidential candiate Barry Goldwater, accepting the nomination at the 1964 USA Republican party convention

... On the other hand Goldwater did talk about wanting to drop nuclear weapons on Vietnam ... and then used the campaign slogan 'In your heart, you know he's right'

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:22 | 2743829 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

The Oligarchy that had just obtained veto power of the presidency in Nov. 1963, decided that they were satisfied with LBJ's lapdog performance for the previous year.  There was no need to let the other lapdog, Barry, take the reins, so they put that little gem in Barry's acceptance speech.  LBJ won as a result and the Vietnam adventure was a go.

I remember it well.  It was the first time I was able to vote.  I had planned to vote Republican, being from a family of  Republicans, but Barry's speech scared me into voting for the other sonuvabitch, LBJ.   I was young and stupid.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:41 | 2743916 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Goldwater did NOT want to drop nuclear weapons on Vietnam as far as I can recall. He did, however, talk about considering the possibility of doing so. Big difference. Options must be discussed; the bad ones should be discarded, the good ones kept. Let's be glad, I suppose, that the US never dropped nuclear weapons in Vietnam and used Agent Orange instead.

As for the quote you posted, Goldwater was lambasted for suggesting extremism had a valid use. Ever since, the left has applied the term 'extremist' to anyone they dislike, especially to anyone who wholeheartedly supports the Constitution. Goldwater was no more popular with the Rockefeller wing of the Republican establishment than Gov. Palin is with the Karl Rove wing now.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 14:13 | 2744251 Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

And dropping nuclear bombs on brown skinned people that we never met nor ever hurt us was somehow a viable option? I would have voted for the other cretin.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:22 | 2743974 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Ron Paul was simply not a credible candidate for President of the United States.

ACCORDING TO WHO - Rupert Murdoch, Rodger Ailes and Carl Rove?

I love how they get to decide for the rest of us - without Fox's tacit approval and campaigning - no one gets nominated for the GOP Presidential ticket.

They just mock Ron Paul - what cut defense??? How could we?  We only spend more then the whole world combined...and going broke in the process.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:20 | 2744032 Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

MDB (Major Dain-Bramage)

Wow.  I scarcely know where to begin.  Okay, let's keep it simple and, in the American tradition, I'll start with Liberty:


"Ron Paul should never have been allowed to participate in the GOP primary OR the presidential race."


Oh, my mistake.  I can see that you're not really in favor of Liberty.  Thanks, but no thanks.  I prefer a free society in which any individual may seek office if they choose without having to obtain your prior approval.


"Ron Paul favors the abolishment of the Federal Reserve Bank of the United States of America. According to Professor Ben Bernanke (current Fed Chairman), this would cause economic devastation not only across America, but across the entire global economy."


Let's see.  Your statement implies a degree of economic illiteracy, so I'll try to be as succinct as possible.  The Federal Reserve is a private banking cartel that has been granted monopoly status over the nation's money supply.  As per your previous statement, again, you are not in favor of Liberty; otherwise, you wouldn't support any government backed cartel/monopoly over ANY sector of the economy, much less the most pervasive - currency.  What other good is in more widespread use than currency?  I can't think of any.  Oh yeah, thank you for informing us regarding the rather impartial view of Ben Bernanke.  I can't imagine why he might possibly have anything other than an impartial view of the Fed Einstein.  Impartiality notwithstanding, let's evaluate his recommendation in light of his competence.  This is the same man who said that there was no housing bubble.  How did that work out?  Oh yeah, this is the same guy who believes that printing money out of thin air creates prosperity.  How's that working out?  Hmm, he's not exactly a font of wisdom from which I'd choose to tap for economic insight, but hey, the Fed has only  presided over a 95% debasement in the value of the dollar since it's inception.  Despite these facts, you give it your ringing endorsement.  Major Dain-Bramage indeed!


"Ron Paul believes that children should have legal access to class A drugs including Marijuana, Cocaine, Heroine and Crystal Meth"


Hmm, I think I missed out on that quote.  Would you mind citing a source?  I'm not a big fan of ex cathedra pronouncements.  They are a little too intellectually lazy for my tastes, plus, too many of them are outright lies.  Oh, speaking of sources, can you please point out to me the section in the Constitution that enumerates the federal government's authority to legistlate matters regarding drugs?  Article 1, Section 8 seems to be a bit lacking in this area, and as such, I believe that the 9th and 10th amendment specifically point out that these are state issues.  Do you not like the Constitution, or is it only relevant when it suits your dictatorial point of view?


"Mr Paul believes that America should completely end the war on terror and allow Islamic Extremists who hate our freedom to have free reign over innocent American citizens."


Those pesky freedom hating Islamists.  They just hate us because we are the bestest of the best - the most awesomest, freedom lovingest, free people in the history of the world!  It has nothing to do with US foreign policy sticking its nose in other countries' business, propping up certain dictators over others, preferring certain governments over others, fascilitating regime change - Syria or Egypt anyone? Nah, it's strictly because we are the AWESOMEST of the AWESOME!  LOL


Your 4th grade statist indoctrinated view of the world would be a whole lot funnier if your idiocy didn't reign in a majority opinion.


Oh yeah, you fail at critical thinking.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 14:41 | 2744334 Hapte
Hapte's picture

Lol, nice wall of text. I remember the first time I was trolled.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:07 | 2744642 Ponzi_Scheme
Ponzi_Scheme's picture

Zionist troll.

Mon, 09/03/2012 - 23:12 | 2759316 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

ADULTS should have legal access to any damn drug they want - CORPORATIONS have that legal access right now and so does the government. THEY ARE NOT LEGALLY SPECIAL. Any adult responsile for harm to a child - be it a toaster, burner, drinking draino or doing meth - is still responsible for that harm REGARDLESS of it being a drug or industrial accident or being a careless driver.

I know you're a troll and everyone else ought to but such ignorance still justifies a good reply. Like making sure it's very clear that none of us here are so asleep or disinterested to forget to add that the USA is the real global military terrorist followed by Israel followed by Russia. They're going a little small-time, that bear, but they're still in the game. Letting Israel and America make themselves look bad with their own blatant murder sprees.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 14:03 | 2744228 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

True, but an army of people educated in liberty, running for local office, is a force to be reckoned with. Ron Paul is not running for POTUS, so much as teaching.


Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:32 | 2743681 greyghost
greyghost's picture

did anyone see the hour long commercial on msnbc for romney/church of latter day saints/mormons the other night? hell i want to convert now!!!! there was one interview with a fellow mormon when he couldn't say that the mormons are a religion...he got that word half way out but then said organization. ever since fox news/business went on a three day anti public pension[and yes they even got around to private pensions] anti soc. sec., anti medicare,anti welfare[remember after you cut those people off where they will come] anti food stamp tirade, i really listen to what these clowns say. anyone else notice that fox business channel is more and more a political station...less and less business? i almost sense that the corporations in america see what the banks are getting away with and want the same wide open, take no prisoners method of operation for them.  yes romney is their man completely, the ultimate corporate animal, stalking their prey, non stop twenty four/ rules...last man standing. wow, no humans involved, no lives involved, no children....last man standing...almost like it is all a game. listen...yes...really listen to their words...they will show you their true colors.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:00 | 2743770 BrotherBroGo1
BrotherBroGo1's picture

Poor POTUS....I guess he fell out of favor.  He was their boy in 2008 but bit the hand a little too often.  They should have known he lacked the discipline.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:45 | 2743945 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Maybe he simply lacks the IQ, or the ability to concentrate.


Mon, 09/03/2012 - 23:08 | 2759313 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

he did his job. His job was not to be in 2 terms just to be a figure-head - a black-skinned anti-war candidate who turned out to be a pro-bank not-necessarily-American not-really-white (but partly) puppet.

The next one will just be another variety of puppet.

None of the details matter. Just the fact.

PUPPET. That part matters. All the rest is window-dressing.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:54 | 2743980 General Decline
General Decline's picture

Oh come now. He did everything he was supposed to. That is read from the TelePrompTer. He wouldn't dare color outside the lines with the kind of bosses he has. I wouldn't be surprised if there was repeating video of the Kennedy assassination running on another screen just below his TelePrompTer.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:27 | 2743844 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



listen...yes...really listen to their words...



LOL - Fox News shows their true “fair and balanced” journalism. The original YouTube video had like a million hits – funny how I couldn’t find it again. This one I found will do.


Fair and balanced – UnFuckingBelievable. 


Tue, 08/28/2012 - 18:47 | 2744894 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

LOL - like any mainstream corporate alphabet media has anything to say even remotely close to ZERO HEDGE. Who cares about FOX - it's just one of about 10 stations that have different takes on the same basic issue - status quo at all costs, and death to true freedom and freedom of thought.  I do find it humorous when people go on an anti-FOX tirade, or MSNBC or any of 'em, as I think it reveals they still suffer from red/blue illness.  Just take a deep breath and LET IT GO...and hedge accordingly...

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:36 | 2743890 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Well Said - I call it Fox-Aganda.  All coriographed by Murdoch, who is the most powerful political force in the US and is not even an American!

Rodger Ailes and Carl Rove  -are no friends to the average American -  they riduclue the Ron Paul supporters - support these $1 trillion dollar wars that are bankrupty this country.


i almost sense that the corporations in america see what the banks are getting away with and want the same wide open, take no prisoners method of operation for them.

Too late - how else can GE make $5 Billion and pay no taxes!

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:50 | 2743964 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Your sentiments are poorly reflected in your incredible ability to spell. ESOL? 

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:55 | 2743984 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Sorry Carl

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 18:51 | 2744908 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

"Too late - how else can GE make $5 Billion and pay no taxes!" - and GE owns FOX, right?  No, they own NBC...and so it goes...just like the two parties are the same failing voices we've had for decades, so the corporate owned media is a collection of failing voices.  My advice - don't listen to the alphabet soup.  And that would be more than just FEUX News...

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:05 | 2743785 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

F&*k Ron Paul. Bugs Bunny 2012 all the way!!!!

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:35 | 2744129 Darth..Putter
Darth..Putter's picture

This was an appropriate definition of people I have worked with, or known over the years.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:02 | 2743580 Blammo
Blammo's picture


Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:40 | 2743707 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Romnobamany-otomy...better than the full frontal lobotomy, but it would also give us a nice mellower feeling.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:16 | 2743810 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I'd rather have a bottleinfrontofme...

Mon, 09/03/2012 - 05:23 | 2757263 MeelionDollerBogus
Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:03 | 2743581 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture


Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:08 | 2743597 UGrev
UGrev's picture

3% roll call. I'm writing in Ron Paul.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:17 | 2743816 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

If you want to know where we are as a Nation, it's really simple actually, just remember this:

ALL violence that is directed at indivduals BY THE state, is called "enforcement" needed to maintain "stability", "Democracy", and "order".

ALL violence directed AT THE State, is labeled "terrorism" and must be dealt with, without mercy or questions.

I think this election is a wake up call in many ways, mostly however, in that it has awakened millions of Americans to the fact that voting and democracy (on a national level) is a total joke!! I think it is time to face the facts that economic warfare is ALL we have left as citizens to rebel against this madness!  Actual violence will be crushed without mercy, but massive economic boycotts of corporations, tax revolts, general strikes that target government revenues, moving away from urban centers and living with like minded people who are self sustainable, free, and will support their neighbors, and using cash, gold, silver, and bartering for commerce, in my opinion, is OUR ONLY OPTION at this point!

I know many people will roll their eyes and just keep bitching as the machine rolls over them, but I prefer to resist, and IMO violent revolt is just not realistic and viable in America in this era, but the things I mentioned above, ARE things people could start doing right now, and no one gets killed!!

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:41 | 2743924 James
James's picture

Would you be mine?

Could you be mine?

Won't you be my neighbor?

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:55 | 2743986 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

You seem to be getting dangerously close to echoing the sentiments expressed in the Declaration of Independence. For that crime you are hereby deemed a threat to TPTB, TBTF and COG.

I suggest you memorize the words to the song "Mr. Blue" by Tom Paxton. You'll need something to think about while relaxing in the FEMA camp slot reserved for you.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 18:00 | 2744743 Juan Wild
Juan Wild's picture

One way to hurt them is to cancel your cable/satellite tv service. I did. The media blackout of Ron Paul was the last straw. I don't miss it at all! If I can do it, anyone can. ;)

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:03 | 2743582 Sleepless Knight
Sleepless Knight's picture

Im writing in Ron Paul no matter what, hopefully he will be a third candidate. Screw the rest of those assholes.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:06 | 2743591 madcows
madcows's picture

Can you replace every congressman and senator too?  How about the state and federal judges?

The President is little more than front man.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:15 | 2743628 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

No shit sherlock, this is more about exposing the kleptocrats for what they are.

The electorate is, for the most part, screwed either way.  hedge accordingly (it's all you can really do anyway).

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:23 | 2743634 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Writing in Ron Paul's name sends a statement to TPTB..telling them that there are a lot of us out there and we are not finished. If we don't vote that makes them happy. If we get pissed off and vote for Obama they just count those as Obama votes. But if we write in Ron Paul..they know we have to be reckoned with.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:41 | 2743925 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Absolutely sends a message! Mr miffed and I are definitely writing RP in. We had flirted with the idea voting Obama in just to "hasten the collapse" but we finally realized that was too nebulous and there is no guarantee of that outcome. For once we want our votes to be heard and this is the only way. Unfortunately, this means we definitely will be compiled as potential usurpers but what the hay, we probably are on the list anyway since I joined ZH! ;-)


Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:58 | 2744002 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

And what makes anyone think that a vote for Ron Paul will be properly recorded and reported upon (in the aggregate) by the MSM? I'd wager that Paul could get 10% of the total vote in reality without even a hint appearing in the press. It doesn't fit their narrative.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 14:31 | 2744299 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Yup.  The Diebolds are already programmed to disregard the Paul votes.  Not that this will stop me from writing him in on my paper ballot.  And not that this will prevent my paper ballot from being used as toilet paper in the executive suite.  Viva la Democracy!

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 18:59 | 2744926 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

Good point - I've been asking myself this through the entire thread.  Maybe somebody should setup a website called so that Ron Paul voters can compile our own list.  But then again, that would probably get preverted into a marketing list...LOL.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:03 | 2743584 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Time to get out of New Orleans if you haven't escaped yet. Here comes FEMA.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:22 | 2743654 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

If someone is in New Orleans, they deserve to be in New Orleans.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:48 | 2743961 hoos bin pharteen
hoos bin pharteen's picture

FEMA Evacuation Plan: "Run bitch, run!"

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:04 | 2743585 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Don't forget that the Federal Reserve Building is named after Mormon banking magnate and Keynesian Marriner Eccles.

It's about the banks and moneyed interests, not the citizens.

The Mormon Church is a corporation.

"Obamney 2012" = no difference; we all lose to the bankers.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:39 | 2743702 greyghost
greyghost's picture

"the mormon church is a corporation" exactly as i stated above about the hour long commercial on msnbc for the mormon/romney folks. the one "organization" member that couldn't use the word religion to describe the mormon church.....backed up and used the word organization. unbelievable.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:45 | 2743703 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

this fukling canadian asswipe doesn't know shit

he is an ideologue

that is ALL he is

is is an ingnoramus

rPaul coulda had it but he is a fuking PARTY HACK and did npt challenge the party leadership, who wanted mittens

i have been addressing rPail's moronic 'candidacy' for well over a year

GET THIS ridiculous DOUCHeBAG OFFA zeroHedge TYLER!!!

he is part of yer PAST dis-info bullshitsky you styooopid moron!

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 19:02 | 2744935 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

But Slewie, please tell us how you really feel...

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 00:31 | 2745643 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

rPaul got "screwed" by the criminal republicans and

ain't if AWFUL?

this is disinfo.  this isn't opinion.  this little ignorant cunt-face has his poli-op cover as an "austrian economist at mises/canada".  and now he is telling you the "truth" about wtf fuk happened lastSpring?

didn't he notice that rPaul didn't care WHILE it WAS happening?  ttoo bad he doesn't follow zH, b/c we were all over it and wondering what the fuk was going on with him:  about 40% of his fand and now 100%

and 'people' junk me?

i called this asswipe out the first/2nd time he was up on zH!!!  in abt 10 minutes too!

but the trolls will pretend he has maybe been here for over 2 months?  and the bots?  that tyler and sac "rent out to the highest bidders"

we're having fun now!

ya see that zH "search" box?

see for yerself!  type this guy's "front-organization" in there and see 4 yourself when tyler and sac started "collecting from him"


rPaul MAY run 3rd-party now but just, again as a party hack;  to try to get mittens into the wH cause the neoCon can't make it except thru computer-targeted voter fraud and the Supremes


they KNOW nader killed the Ds  for bush;  he won't run this year;  he's not styooopid

but rPaul might!

so this claptrap MUST come onto zH from "canada"?


how do you feel?  or don't you know enpugh to trust your gut when it cpomes to bullshit and propaganda?

a party hack is a party hack is a party hack;  you wanna pretend rPaul CAN'T be a party hack, that's fine, but don't blow that smoke up my ass, ok?  i like rPaul!  i wondered whether he was serious or not and decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and my support.  people should know that here, if they "care abt fair".  then he DID get behind and he kept "running" and i said:  well mittens is gonna LOVE that money rPaul's collecting! he wasn't serious about BEing president!  and, he can't bge now!  but maybe he can help the neoCons and his son somehow

or don't you think his son is a neoCon?  rand?  i do personally.  you think for yourself, ok?  now if you like neoCons, YOU are gonna love zeroHedge even though it pretends it isn't pushing romney here since last spring when rPaul ACTUALLY went tits up

i put up the delegate counts on these strings MANY MANY times for people while i tried to tell the ideologues to WAKE UP

if the repubs are dormied already and can't win in a 2-party system their operatives try trial balloons and polling where the media gives them access

people can look for themselves when this tool started being "published" here 2-3 times/ week

no one is aslleep here!

it would fit so well with everything i'm SEEing here, that, people hafte attack my c.r.e.d. b/c they traded theirs for filthy lucre?

so junk slewie!  L0L!!! 

slewie describes what he sees right in front of his nose and everyone else's noZeHERE is all

if the republicunts think he could help them, rPaul would fly a plane into a builing for them!

if they tell him to bolt he will

if they don't he won't

they don't know wtf they're doing, so this asswipe jacks up the whole site with another load of his patented propaganda

just b/c you agree with the "slant" doesn't mean rPaul got "screwed" so then this would really be good b/c we LOVE rPaul so let's elect him?

go ahead!  but rPaul isn't electable even to his own party

everybody loved the party till the found out america isn't buying another neoCon in the wH and the wrong guy has the delegates

so let's turn the country over to him (mittens!), right?  rPaul is not electable;  did this guy miss something?  no, ron IS electable, but he just couldn't get enuf votes

so now he's s'posed to HELP

paul has a warchest and it will be used against prez0 either way

maybe he'll have the balls to stand before the convention and say:  give me the nomination!  this guy knows he can't win an maybe i can if i don't hafta run against him

mittens:  well, he's right!  let's back him and go for it!

nobody's smokin weed that good are they?    shareZies?

i like austrian economics ya know:  i do not like to see propaganda on zeroHedge

i don't rPaul will bolt;  so maybe VP?  oops!  mittens said "distance";  so "distance" it must be

mittens has won control of the republican party!  hey!  congratulations to all you republicans! 

they have been trying "messages" here and in ALL media for a loooong time b/c they can't find any "messages" that make electing another neoCon possible!

so what?  do they hafta bullshit and lie to everybody all the time?  then when we elect them, we act upset b/c they lie to us!  citizenism parfait!

after about the second "debate" people won't "notice" prez0 is debating 2 republicunts?  what can they do here?  i wondered why the hell mittens took his VP before the convention?  b/c he knew he was losing!  that healthCare ruling HURT and we talked about it here

hurt = not as much in the polls

rPaul is very electable in his district, though, isn't he? he's pretty cool once ya get to know him;  to bad he didn't introduce himself to the NATION more effectively

the process was controlled by the party b/c it is s'posed to be controlled by the party b/c it was aparty process;  and he CLEARLY submitted to it, too

now we have a problem?  where can he go?

it's hard to imagine rPaul running the Treasury, but for a buncha bullshit corpo-fascist neoCon party co-hacks,  why not?

health?  get him outa the congress entirely?  he's done!  he got his ideas out and they were pretty cool AND WE DID hear YOU RON!  thanks!

too fuking bad you didn't hear thePeople of the USA calling to YOU and not the PARTY!  don't blame slewie!  zeroHead who are serious KNOW i tried to tell rPaul IN REAL TIME right here with others.  he did not have ears to hear

he is not a free man compared to mittens?  no!  he LOST!!!

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:59 | 2743768 JR
JR's picture

These statements were made during hearings of the House Committee on Banking and Currency, September 30, 1941. US banker and economist, Marriner Eccles, was Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board (1934-48):

Congressman Patman: "How did you get the money to buy those two billion dollars worth of Government securities in 1933?"
Governor Eccles: "Out of the right to issue credit money."
Patman: "And there is nothing behind it, is there, except our Government's credit?"
Eccles: "That is what our money system is. If there were no debts in our money system, there wouldn't be any money."
Congressman Fletcher: "Chairman Eccles, when do you think there is a possibility of returning to a free and open market, instead of this pegged and artificially controlled financial market we now have?"
Governor Eccles: "Never, not in your lifetime or mine.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 19:03 | 2744942 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

So far, he's almost got that right...very sad.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:48 | 2743957 James
James's picture

"The Mormon Church is a corporation"


All churches today are corps 501c3 or 501c4

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 14:25 | 2744285 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture


Business magazine probes Mormon church's finances

Mormons often point with pride to the Polynesian Cultural Center, a 42-acre Hawaiian park that features luaus, canoe rides and tours through seven re-created villages.

The park, which opened in 1963, is owned by the Utah-based LDS Church and run as a nonprofit organization, exempt from federal taxes. It employs LDS students from the nearby Brigham Young University-Hawaii and is a destination point for many Mormon tourists.

But few know that the center's president received a salary of $296,000 in 2010, while the park had “net assets worth $70 million and collected $23 million in ticket sales alone, as well as $36 million in tax-free donations,” according to a just-published article about Mormon finances in Businessweek.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 19:05 | 2744945 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture


Exactly who is 'WE' in that equation?

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:04 | 2743586 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Thank God that the Democratic party still remains free from "...banker interests, imperialism, and clandestine state empowerment...".

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:04 | 2743587 madcows
madcows's picture

The Left is no different.  The two party system is only a ruse to make you think you have a choice.  But, the two parties pick their candidates for you, so that your only choice is one they have predetermined for you.

I get so pissed when people blame the voters, like they had some hand in who wins.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:23 | 2743658 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

It IS the voters fault. They just sit on the couch and take it. They talk ALOT but DO nothing!!!

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:06 | 2744027 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Voters do have a say in who gets nominated/elected for state and local offices. 2010 showed that change can happen, at least in some places. There were also a few RINOs displaced in this year's primaries. Unfortunately, the political insurrectionists never seem to attain critical mass in legislative bodies. Imagine what would happen if the House was represented by 435 copies of Ron Paul, and the Senate dominated by 100 copies of - wait a minute, I'm trying to find a suitable example...oh, well, you know what I mean, anyway. Would an overwhelmingly libertarian Congress manage to overcome a dictatorial president like the current one?

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:38 | 2744137 madcows
madcows's picture

Even state elections are massively affected by Party involvement.  You don't think your Governor got huge financial support from his party?  Please.  He bought the party ticket and they punched it for him. 

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 14:24 | 2744280 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

The problem is definitely the voters and change will be slow in coming - if at all.

Imagine if 99% of the population were anarchists, not government lovers.

This crap wouldn't be happening.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 19:09 | 2744956 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

Or even if - shock - that many were committed to and passionate about freedom...and cared enough about their kids futures to do something about it.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 23:07 | 2748652 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

True enough.

If people don't care about their own kids, why did they have them?

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 19:07 | 2744950 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

"like they had some hand in who wins."


My one qualm with the people, is that they could get more involved at the local level.  There is a lot of apathy (perhaps some of it is understandable.)

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:06 | 2743588 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"This strategy is totally befitting for a whorish game like politics because it allows those seeking public office to change their rhetoric and tune in order to attract as many voters as possible."

Please refrain from denigrating the prostitution profession. It's the only "product" that is honestly presented with every facet of the transaction clearly understood before fiat is exchanged. To call the political process "whorish" would elevate its present stature.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:05 | 2743590 khakuda
khakuda's picture

It's fun when one realizes that the guy who seems crazy, and most think is crazy, is actually the only sane one in the place.  Our country suffers from a mass delusion.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:08 | 2743599 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

willing suspension of disbelief

Going through life is now just like watching a movie.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:37 | 2743700 FoxMulder
FoxMulder's picture

Going through life is now just like watching a car wreck.


Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:08 | 2744034 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

I'm afraid that, for most of us, it will be like being involved in a car wreck. Fasten your seat belts.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 19:13 | 2744970 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

We're all on a train that's barreling full speed ahead for the bridge out about 1 mile ahead....and the brakeman's had a heart attack...

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:06 | 2743592 LFRD
LFRD's picture

VERY awesome article!  PEACE, does not go with our Liberty.  Liberty on.


Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:07 | 2743594 RallyRoundTheFamily
RallyRoundTheFamily's picture


"Those who earn a living through the police state, the educational establishment, the mainstream press, and the central bank-controlled financial system enjoy their state privileges and will do what it takes to maintain them."

is why nothing will get done until it is too late.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:09 | 2743600 the 300000000th...
the 300000000th percent's picture

they can play with there sock puppets all they want, people are starting to wake up and grow up and realize the puppet show is just that its a show. It worked while there was plenty of pacifiers to hand out and shiny shit to bedazzle us with, but the American citizenry is starting to see their little baby slice of the big pie get even smaller. The gig is up, time to eat the puppets, the dumb animals(average americans) are getting hungry and restless. Maybe thats why the DHS just bought 1.2 billion rounds of ammo.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:18 | 2743601 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

More GOP Hypocrisy:

David Vitter Republican Senator from Louisiana:

Praising the SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT RUN INSURANCE PROGRAM (National Flood Insurance Program)

At he says at 2:25 into the 5 minute interview on CNBC this morning (and that fucking asswipe Kernan didn't say a peep!):

"Everybody here depends on the National Flood Insurance Program...Thank Goodness a couple of months ago we got a long term 5 year re-authorization of this program...that's important to the country..."

WHAT-WHAT-WHAT Here is what boils my blood - the height of hypocrisy - Here is a very conservative GOP senator WHO LOVES HIS SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT RUN AND FUNDED SCHEME.  And the heavy GOP states of Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida are all for it!  Who does this SOCIALIST program benefit?  The whole Country?  Not even close - just a few wealthy folks who own water front homes in areas prone to Hurricanes and flooding. 

Who the PRIVATE sector insurance companies would not, in there right minds cover! At least not at the very low subsidized rates their wealthy water front property owners are used to paying (thanks to a huge taxpayer funded subsidy).

WHY - because these areas KEEP GETTING HIT - Over and over again.


From Wiki:

...Congress found that repetitive-loss properties cost the taxpayer $200 million annually...Since 1978, NFIP have paid more then $38 BILLION in claims.  More then 40% of the claims have been to residents of Lousianna"

And best of all this from Mr Hypocrisy himself - GOP Senator David Vitter that Social Conservative - Family Values guy - who loves the Whore Houses of New Orleans - and gets re-elected by the conservative GOP voters of Louisiana.

If we're depending on this GOP to save us - we are sooo fucked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

More proof this GOP is all about BIG GOVERNMENT - they won't even seat Ron Paul Delegates at their convention.

Hey Tyler, how about a separate thread on this...if you're a true believer in Ron Paul you will.


Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:23 | 2743655 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

If "your" a polite person, you won't call out your host.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:36 | 2743694 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Not Applicable

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:57 | 2743760 CloseToTheEdge
CloseToTheEdge's picture

good catch

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:39 | 2743912 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

How's the view from Biloxi?

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:23 | 2743820 greyghost
greyghost's picture screams for two years about the stimulus money, yet are the first in line to recieve said stimulus for their districts!!!!! listen to their words. they are telling you that corporate america...not small mom/pop business...wants no katie barring the door....not a new sheriff in town, but no sheriff. i have been a life long republican...but these nimrods scare the living shit out of me. no wellfare???? not a plan to wean the country off kill it. can anyone else see waves of hungry mobs of people roaming the streets like some sort of zommie movie? what will a hungry person do for food? what would a hungry child do for food? there is a reason all these programs were started. the playing field wasn't level...what with the bankers creating the money and saying where it goes. i used to love amc movie channel for all the movies from the twenties/thirties. one night i watching some movie about the history of music/jazz in harlem. wow, what a vibrant city, well maintained buildings, businesses going strong.....and then the crash of 29 and harlem isn't the same...ever. most banks at that time weren't members of the federal reserve. that all changes with the bank holiday/fdic of 1933. in order for a bank to be insured they had to knuckle under to the federal reserve.....and they control. total control of where the money went[hint:i am a white man just taking a wild guess...not to places like harlem] and to whom the money went. you see, there is a reason these programs were started...the price society pays for corporate greed. if you are a republican and don't understand this basic system.....well i thinking you are a moron. i thinking you think welfare is just an evil plot against you, when you should be thankful that they have kept the poor/hungry from your door step. some of these social programs were republican ideas or at the least supported by republicans.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:19 | 2743935 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Well said!

They used to say  - "Welfare was cost the rich paid to keep them safe"

Look at South America - the wealthy and their kids have to have armed body guards escorting them everywhere to prevent Kidnapping and extortion.

Here's a little more about Louisiana's favorite son:

Vitter has identified himself as a political conservative throughout his political career. His legislative agenda includes positions ranging from pro-life to pro-gun rights while legislating against gambling, same-sex marriage, federal funding for abortion providers, increases in the State Children's Health Insurance Program, the United Nations, and amnesty for America's illegal immigrants. Vitter's stated positions include a balanced budget constitutional amendment,[33] abolishing the federal and state estate tax,[34] increasing local police forces,[35] and an assortment of health care, tax and national defense reforms.[36]

Vitter has worked in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to bring disaster relief to the region. Huh??!!! Bring disaster relief and a Socialist Gov't Run Insurance Scheme and a Balanced Budget Amendment???  NOBODY CALLS THESE CLOWNS OUT ON THESE OBVIOUS CONTRADICTIONS...So on we go into National Bankruptcy...

And a Christian Man of Compassion:

In September 2007, Vitter opposed an increase of $35 billion for the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), the national program to provide health care for children from families who earn too much to qualify for Medicaid but cannot afford private health insurance. He said he preferred that private health insurance provide the needed care and deemed the bill as "Hillarycare", a reference to the 1993 Clinton health care plan created by Hillary Clinton which proposed universal health care.[47] The increase passed the Senate, 67 to 29, but was later vetoed by President George W. Bush.[48] In February 2009 the SCHIP increase was finally enacted, despite Vitter's voting nay a third time

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:53 | 2743977 James
James's picture

That Vitter guy.....

He's the one who wears a diaper when having sex w/a pro is'nt he?

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:04 | 2744013 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

May-be it was one of the 50 Evangelical Ministers who have been caught up in a sex scandal.

Fun list:

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:23 | 2744077 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Evangelicals don't claim to be perfect, or even righteous, just forgiven. Some may be, others perhaps not. One difference I've observed between Evangelical Christians and those who worship in the house of Liberalism is that the former tend to push aside/shun those who are caught in sin - remember, we're not talking crime in the legal sense here - whereas the latter do not acknowledge the existence of sin, therefore everything is permissible. Ted Kennedy (manslaughter?) and Bill Clinton (accused of rape) are just the most extreme examples of Liberals who got a Get Out of Jail Free card. Oh - how could I have forgotten Jon Corzine (theft).

Every segment of our society is 100% infested with imperfect people. I've known a few myself, including the guy who stares at me every time I look in the mirror. The question is, do we allow bad behavior to go unpunished? Do we not have an obligation to shun those who exhibit bad behavior? Or do we simply circle the wagons and say "he's one of ours"?


Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:35 | 2744126 madcows
madcows's picture

Liberalism is the encouragement of bad behavior... all is permissible, and encouraged, while morality is shunned.  Wanna hump a donkey?  Go for it, and don't you Christians tell me I shouldn't.  Who are you to tell me what is right?

Whereas, Christianity(sans Christ) is the encouragement of morality.  There is right and wrong.  Donkey humping is bad.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:54 | 2744199 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Last I checked Donkey Humping was illegal, but not what a women does with her own least not yet.

But hey, your Religion says you get to decide the rules - for everyone else...rules/laws you don't have to follow!

Break the rule/law - say I'm sorry - life goes on like before.  Everyone else not in the club goes to jail!

"In early July 2007, Vitter's phone number was included in a published list of phone records of Pamela Martin and Associates, a company owned and run by Deborah Jeane Palfrey, also known as the "D.C. Madam", convicted by the U.S. government for running a prostitution service. Hustler identified the phone number and contacted Vitter's office to ask about his connection to Palfrey.[20][21] The following day, Vitter issued a written statement in which he took responsibility for his sin and asked for forgiveness.[22] On July 16, 2007, after a week of self-imposed seclusion, Vitter emerged and called a news conference. Standing next to his wife, Vitter asked the public for forgiveness. Following Vitter's remarks, Wendy Vitter, his wife, spoke. Both refused to answer any questions.[23][24][25]

While the Louisiana state Republican Party offered guarded support,[26] national Republicans offered forgiveness.[27] The Nation predicted that the Republican Party would be in a "forgiving mood", pointing out if Vitter did step down, then Governor of Louisiana, Kathleen Blanco, a Democrat, would likely appoint a Democrat to take Vitter's place until a special election took place, thus increasing Democratic control over the Senate.[28][29][30]

Vitter did not face criminal charges due to the statute of limitations.[31] There were renewed calls for Vitter's resignation during a sexting scandal involving U.S. Representative Anthony Weiner in June 2011.[32]"

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 19:21 | 2745002 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

Bliss, given your great interest in political sex scandals, I'm sure you were in favor of a convict vote in Clinton's impeachment trial, hmm?

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 21:51 | 2745385 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Right after Bush/Cheney, Clinton was the worst President this country has ever had.  I would have impeached him for sure!!!

But not just for his sexual escapades - but what he did to the middle class of this country.

NAFTA/WTO, repeal of Glass Stegal, selling us out to the Chinese and the Russians, the list goes on.  That whole cast of characters like Rubin, Summers and crew - completely screwed us.  THEY Are the Bankster class I despise.

Obama is almost as bad with Holder, Geitner, Emanuel, etc... - I want to vomit.  If he had a once of courage and character he really could have changed things.  He had the country behind him to untie the knot of Banker/Corporate Oligarchy.  Hope and Change became I Hope I have some Change.


My issues with Vitter is his hypocritical actions - not where he puts his dick, or what brand of diapers he wears - I could care less.

As for the "Holier then Thou" Evangelicals and Mormons - their desire to impose their Religious values on everyone by force of law is what bugs me.  Sorry I'm not a Theocratic - but a Libertarian.


We have only one pol with a backbone - Ron Paul - and even he has made too many compromises.

As for the "choice" between Romney and Obama - I have to go with - Johnson (Libertarian candidate).

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 14:11 | 2744182 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Evangelicals don't claim to be perfect, or even righteous, just forgiven.

Are you kidding me?  Forgiven of what?  So, as the list above shows, these are your chosen leaders, you guys can just go sin again -like an unlimited get out of jail free card.  Sin-Beg Forgiveness-Sin-Beg Forgiveness,etc...

Hey whatever - that's your deal!  But when you have taken over the GOP and turned it into the American version of the Taliban, and want to ENACT LAWS - THAT TELL EVERYONE UNDER PENALTY OF ARREST AND INCARCERATION HOW TO BEHAVE, AND WHAT TO BELIEVE.  And I have to pay for enforcement that's bullshit.

I have three Sister who are Evangelical - all they and their "church" talk about is the Muslims and how they must be destroyed! They are all for nuking the middle east.  For them and many Evangelicals it's a freaking holy war.  But why care if you blow-up the world if your cult religion says you're just going to heaven for your efforts.

You must think you're perfect if you feel you can genocide a whole section of the earth's population...or coerce them into converting. 

Believe in whatever you want, Lord Xenu, Thetans, Magic Pants, Seeing Stones, Magic Crystals, Pyramids, Fables, Myths, Stories ,etc.. - who cares -it used to be a free country.  When you work to enforce your minority views politically, I have a problem with that.


Business magazine probes Mormon church's finances

Mormons often point with pride to the Polynesian Cultural Center, a 42-acre Hawaiian park that features luaus, canoe rides and tours through seven re-created villages.

The park, which opened in 1963, is owned by the Utah-based LDS Church and run as a nonprofit organization, exempt from federal taxes. It employs LDS students from the nearby Brigham Young University-Hawaii and is a destination point for many Mormon tourists.

But few know that the center's president received a salary of $296,000 in 2010, while the park had “net assets worth $70 million and collected $23 million in ticket sales alone, as well as $36 million in tax-free donations,” according to a just-published article about Mormon finances in Businessweek.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 14:37 | 2744317 rockface
rockface's picture

Tell us about CAIR and their influence in the Obama regime.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 15:50 | 2744431 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Who is CAIR - one of those made up Glenn Beck Bogeymen?

Listen the Obama administration is also corrupt - look at who's the Tres Sec - enough said.

But we're fighting for the soul of the GOP and America's future.  Unfortunately, this band of fanatic is more interested in vaginal ultra-sounds then our massive ballooning debt.

What has the country been focused on these last few weeks?  Todd Akin, this knuckle dragging idiot, who you guys have made your SENATE candidate!   Stop it with the Creationism foolishness - the world was not created in seven days - OK!  It's more then 2,000 years old!  The dinosaurs fossils were not planned to "fool" us, the Moon is not made of cheese, a women's body can not stop a pregnancy when "legitimately" raped (as Akin says), fucking Rush is an idiot (I heard him defend Akin staying in the race), so is Beck.  Stop the insanity already.

The GOP is going to lose badly at this rate, and we will have gridlock, at a time of utmost peril!



Tue, 08/28/2012 - 19:24 | 2745012 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

You really don't know who CAIR is?

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 22:01 | 2745427 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

You really don't know who CAIR is?

Who the fuck cares???  Do you know who the JDL is?

You and your holy war propaganda - save it for your mind control sermon to your flock.  I'm sure it fills the collection basket.

This is exactly what I've been ranting about all day - you just don't get it.

You religious fanatics have taken over the GOP - our last hope.


We can no longer afford the Empire and the Holy Wars - we're broke!  That's the threat! 

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 15:10 | 2744413 erschiessen
erschiessen's picture

Kent Hovind is a political prisoner, a la Irving Schiff.

His "scandal" is that he refused to pay tribute.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 15:32 | 2744460 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

You guys are fucking nuts - fringe lunatics (but running the GOP)!  And you ridicule Ron Paul for his sane and sensible solutions.

We have gone over the freaking insanity waterfalls.  This is what really scares me - not China, NK or Iran.

If folks like Hovind take power and get a hold of our nukes - it gonna be one big barbeque!


"Hovind was awarded a master's degree and doctorate in Christian Education through correspondence from the non-accredited Patriot University in Colorado Springs, Colorado (now Patriot Bible University in Del Norte, Colorado, which no longer offers this program."

"After receiving his first correspondence degree, Hovind started the Creation Science Evangelism ministry (CSE) in 1989.[14] The ministry aims to evangelize people by teaching them creationism."

"Eric Hovind signed a letter on behalf of God Quest Ministries for the Florida Family Policy Council to the Florida Board of Education opposing the statement: "Evolution is the fundamental concept underlying all of biology and is supported by multiple forms of scientific evidence."

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 15:43 | 2744499 erschiessen
erschiessen's picture

the scandals in the previous post were sex scandals... but the link included non-sexual scandals.

I don't recall Hovind running for POTUS. He had a Creationist Ministry.


I find that not reason for imprisonment, but maybe you do.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 15:48 | 2744514 erschiessen
erschiessen's picture

BTW, I'm all-in for Ron Paul.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 15:57 | 2744528 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

He wasn't locked up for his insane delusions, he didn't pay his taxes.  Give it a try!  See where that get you.

He even goes against his own Bible; What did Jesus say "Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's...." Why - because you guy just make this shit up as you go along.  Hey, I'll just ignore that part of the Bible and just believe the world is created in 7 days part!

It's no sense discussing this with you  - like talking to a wall.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 16:39 | 2744581 erschiessen
erschiessen's picture

He is jailed for his Minisrty not paying taxes.... while crooks like Corzine continue to eff over you, me and Dupree.

It's all good, though, since he doesn't think like you?

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:56 | 2744700 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Hey, I went through a six week IRS audit -came out them owning me money.

Do you think this was fun?

I think none of these "Ministrys" should get away from what the rest(other then Romney and his crowd) have to pay.  Catholic Church as well, all the Synagogues and Temples - all of them.

It was fine when it was a few folks praying in a small building - now they are huge Businesses - with concerts, hotels, swimming pools, daycare, etc...


Look, how do you think we got to this place? Religious Businesses don't pay taxes, the Welfare folks don't pay, the Multinational corps don't pay, the rich guys like Romney with his off shore accounts don't pay - who's left to carry the EMPIRE? You and Me.  That don't cover it - since we need twelve Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier Battle groups at $100 Billion each, to "defend" these same Multinational Corporate interests and the Religious Holy Wars on the other side of the planet.  The rest get's borrowed - from our swore enemies -huh?  Does this make any sense?

Maybe I missed it - does the Bible say: "Thou shall borrow until bankrupt to fund your Holy War?"

That's what I love about you Religious Nuts - you ignore all the "Love Thy Enemy" and the "Turn the other Cheek stuff"


I love this Glenn Beck dude - huge following - yeah.  Jesus walked around upstate NY picking apples in 1850 - so go get all the progressives!

Who's the threat?  China -with their measly little old Soviet jump jet carrier?  Russia - same one old carrier, Spain - they have Two!

Shake off the Religious Holy War indoctrination you get every Sunday and wake-up to what Ron Paul is saying - WE ARE FUCKING BROKE!!!!





Tue, 08/28/2012 - 20:15 | 2745139 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

"That's what I love about you Religious Nuts - you ignore all the "Love Thy Enemy" and the "Turn the other Cheek stuff"



R U Serious? - this is just bizarre!  I know many Christians on both the left and the right and none of them think like this.  Seriously dude, you wanna talk about a loose nut, check yourself.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 22:28 | 2745512 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

R U Serious? - this is just bizarre!  I know many Christians on both the left and the right and none of them think like this.

I know many fine sane Christians myself - they aren't your brand of Creationist believing, War mongering lunatics

But I will educate you on the Radical Evangelicals and Mormons that comprise the GOP.

How about this:

Military Instructor Suspended for Teaching Soldiers to Wage War on Islam Read more at or this Christian Nationalism's War with Islam and this Evangelical Christians in Iraq - War against Islam

or this

Beck's War on Progressives

Glenn Beck takes aim at Progressives comparing himself to Israeli Nazi Hunters


Hey SeattleBruce, you are a fucking moron of the lowest degree - get your head out of your ass.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 20:26 | 2745162 erschiessen
erschiessen's picture

Ron Paul is one of those Religious nuts... in fact the only candidate to not only believe, but behave, biblically.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 22:11 | 2745457 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

in fact the only candidate to not only believe, but behave, biblically.

So how does Romeny, Ryan, Santorium, Palin, etc... not "behave" biblically in your judgement?

Oh yeah I remember that part in the Bible "Thou shall legalize all drugs - now go party"

That was in the Bob Marley Rasta version.

Paul can believe in the Easter Bunny for all I care - he doesn't espouse imposing it on everyone else.

I think you're deluded in what he stands for.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:25 | 2747083 erschiessen
erschiessen's picture

Of course the neo-cons do not. Killing upwards of a million innocents isn't very biblical, in my judgement. Christ threw the money-changers out of the Temple. Team GOP are either the Money-Changers themselves, or are in bed with them.

The Bible calls Liberty "The Perfect Law".

Imposing morality on others is in no difference than what the Pharisees and Saducees tried to do 2000-ish years ago, or the Inquisition 1000-ish years ago, or what the jihadis and their zionist cousins are doing today.

If no sin is being comitted against another against their will, it is a useless Law that only leads to more useless Laws that stack upon each other until the goal of totalitarianism is reached.

Sun, 09/02/2012 - 02:53 | 2755923 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Paul's repeatedly introducing a "Sanctity of Life" bill espouses imposing his beliefs on half the American public - the female half, as it completely overlooks the male contribution to creating "life" - you're not mentioning this at all in your posts. . .

I think you may be deludes in exactly what he stands for, and what he's intent on "imposing" on others.

(random link arguing the position)

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:09 | 2743603 madcows
madcows's picture

Refuse to vote for an incumbent.  And, if given the choice, vote for the independent candidate.  Don't support either party.  They've coopted the governement for themselves and no longer represent you.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:11 | 2743610 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

"One and done" is an interesting strategy. It increases the cost of doing business.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:18 | 2743636 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I applaud increasing the cost of doing business if that business is "da bidness" of ripping you and me off.

If term limits make it harder for the politicians to game the system in favor of their favored "supporters"...well that's just fine by me.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:20 | 2743647 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

California has term limits and look at the ess they are in.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:32 | 2743672 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Cali does not have one and done. It's the only type of term limit that might.......might......rein in the corrupt dogs a bit.

Known as Proposition 28, the campaign largely flew under the radar, taking a back seat to the more controversial Proposition 29, which sought to raise the tax on cigarette sales by $1 a pack.

Proposition 28 was largely similar to the change voters rejected in 2008. Instead of a total of 14 years, new lawmakers will be limited to 12 years. But they'll be able to serve the full 12 years in either house, rather than be limited to three two-year terms in the Assembly and two four-year stints in the Senate. Current lawmakers won't be affected.


"If people had the option, they would probably limit members to a single term," he said.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:41 | 2743710 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Well I could certainly go for one and done when it comes to politicians. Being a politician in our system was meant to be a civic duty...a do your time and come home. It was never suppossed to be a career path.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:43 | 2743720 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I'm far from convinced that it's a viable strategy, but it's interesting to me nonetheless. There is a very limited set of things that people can do right now to attempt to break the existing system.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:31 | 2744115 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

One and done would hand more power over to the bureaucracy, the unelected machinery of government.

My choice of method to restrict government corruption would be to have a Constitutional amendment proclaiming the right of every citizen to keep 90% of earnings. The other 10% - comprised of taxes of all kinds -  would have to be split between various levels of government. Starve the beast. I'm not corrupt for the simple reason that I have no power to benefit anyone via government handouts.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 15:42 | 2744491 rockface
rockface's picture

Term iimits wouldn't solve anything.  There is an endless supply of Marxists such as Obama and his crowd with no real world experience or ability eager to take their place.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 20:20 | 2745147 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

"California has term limits and look at the ess they are in."

CA also has single party rule.  Kind of like the oligopoly that runs the national goobermint - only worse.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:26 | 2743666 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I think that's why we're now seeing two-termers from alternating parties. It decreases their overhead in trying to find facade-worthy puppets, giving them sixteen years to grow the next "One."

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:13 | 2743604 divide_by_zero
divide_by_zero's picture

Romney's people are attempting today to change the rules at the convention to further minimize any influence outside of the elites.

Edit: appears they were unsuccessful

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:14 | 2743624 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

This is always done at every convention.  Every nominee wants full control of the optics that will appear on TV.  

Standard stuff.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:36 | 2744131 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Changing the rules is not limited to political conventions. Somewhere along the lines the rules were changed to only apply to common folks while the elite get a free pass. Somewhere in the last 6000 years or so, as a guess. Egyptian pharaohs changed the rules, deposing prior gods and proclaiming themselves deities. Harry Reid changes the rules. What else is new?

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:48 | 2744168 divide_by_zero
divide_by_zero's picture

Actually not the same as this time, this was a game changer going forward for future conventions as well. And the compromise they reached still gave up too much for the states I think.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:10 | 2743606 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture


Whether one likes it or not, the reality of incumbency means that a vote for anyone other than Romney is a vote for Obama.

You do not vote FOR Romney.  You vote AGAINST Obama, and voting for Ron Paul does not deny Obama another term, which frankly, is just about the only chance you have of survival.  If he has another term, debt will be $25 Trillion by 2016, and I think you all know it.

Will it be less with Romney?  You know what?  We can't know.  But we DO know it will be $25T with Obama.  Deny him that power.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:18 | 2743639 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Nurse:  "Do you want your rectal exam performed by my right finger or left finger?"

Patient:  "Um..."

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:36 | 2743695 walküre
walküre's picture

Nice try.

We DO KNOW that our debt will increase. Does it matter if we increase to the tune of 20, 25 or 30 trillion?


Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:49 | 2743733 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Correct.  The math is very clear and the debt cannot be repaid, period.  We have all been here before.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:48 | 2743727 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Typically response from a good "party" sheep.  Wake the fuck up idiot, the whole point is to hasten the collapse, restore real consequences for bad behavior and restore a new montary system that actually rewards people who's labor is of real fucking value.  Oh yeah, try not to stink of fear so much as well.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:53 | 2743748 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Money is not the collapse instrument because it is artificial.

Only oil can take it all down.  And it will.  Soon.  Obama will run up debt to pretend to defend against that.  We can't know what Romney will do, but we do know what Obama will do.

You vote for Obama or against him.  There is only one "against" vehicle.

If you want a third party, then start at the bottom.  Build state legislator presence, then House presence, then Senate.  Then and only then, worry about a third option at the President level.  Trying to short circuit that just re-elects incumbents.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:04 | 2743784 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

As I have said numerous times before, all economies are local (see my orginal post on this thread as to were your "wealth" is really stored) and the laws of Nature and physics really don't govr a shit.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:59 | 2743769 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Bullshit!  Both parties and both candidates are owned by the same oligarchy.  Your nonsense is like someone's sheep voting for sheepdogs, thinking that one or the other will improve their chances of avoiding the lamb stew.

Willard is an advocate of the FIRE and MIC mafias, just like Barry.   They drive the deficit.   WMR & BO's agendas will only transfer wealth at a greater rate (if they can find any wealth after January '13, that is) from the proles to the oligarchy.  I suspect that's your agenda as well.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:35 | 2743889 Swarmee
Swarmee's picture

The only sane choice, when deciding the lesser of two evils, is NEITHER.

We do not have run-off voting, so rethink how you are approaching this prisoners dilemma.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:45 | 2743946 CptAwesome
CptAwesome's picture

Yes yes, go ahead throw your vote away! Vote for anyone other than the two options you are given and throw your vote away /sarc

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 13:42 | 2744155 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

It's the person sitting in the seat junior, it's the seat itself. Voting for any of them is accepting that you are incapable of governing yourself. Ron Paul is the only person worth voting for because he has proven that he understands that we want to govern ourselves, not have the government come in a fuck with us. 

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:11 | 2743607 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Mr. conservative himself, William F. Buckly Jr. always urged others to vote for the right-most electable candidate possible.  The problem with that advise is you can do just that and still drift ever leftward and/or statist.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 11:12 | 2743611 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

This is correct.  You may drift.  You don't get what you want.

Well, you NEVER get what you want.  The best you can do is get less of what you dislike.  That was Buckley's point.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!