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Guest Post: Does Syria Want A War?
Submitted by John Aziz of Azizonomics
Does Syria Want A War?
We know for sure that Syria intentionally shot down a Turkish — and thus protected by NATO — warplane in its airspace. We also know that Syria is comfortable enough to admit it.
Syria said Friday it shot down a Turkish military plane that entered Syrian air space, and Turkey vowed to “determinedly take necessary steps” in response.
It was the most clear and dramatic escalation in tensions between the two countries, which used to be allies before the Syrian revolt began in March 2011. Turkey has become one of the strongest critics of the Syrian regime’s brutal response to the country’s uprising.
Late Friday, Syria’s state-run news agency, SANA, said the military spotted an “unidentified aerial target” that was flying at a low altitude and at a high speed.
“The Syrian anti-air defenses counteracted with anti-aircraft artillery, hitting it directly,” SANA said. “The target turned out to be a Turkish military plane that entered Syrian airspace and was dealt with according to laws observed in such cases.”
It seems pretty clear that the Syrians know the consequences of their actions. NATO (including deluded US hawks who are happy to ignore the disastrous consequences of the drug war on the US border while talking up more intervention in the middle east) and the NATO-backed Syrian opposition has been looking for any excuse to get stuck into a new interventionist mission. We know that the NATO-backed opposition were prepared to try and get a British journalist killed in a false flag operation in order to trigger a Western intervention.
So why did Russia-armed Syria do it? And why (given the age of F-4 aircraft, it could easily have crashed of its own accord giving the Syrians a lot of plausible deniability) are they not at least denying that they shot it down?
Is it possible that the wider Eurasian anti-American coalition led by the Russians and the Chinese are confident that NATO will not intervene out of fear of triggering a wider war? After all the Russian naval base has been a great obstacle to NATO intervention. Libya didn’t have any Russian bases, and it took far less internal violence for NATO to intervene there.
Is it even possible that the Eurasians are trying to provoke NATO into another costly and damaging war? After all, the American Empire is much more indebted and militarily overstretched than it was before 9/11. Osama bin Laden’s goal of dragging the United States into the middle eastern quagmire, and thereby bankrupting America has been an unmitigated success. Could the Eurasians be trying to provoke a regional war in order to weaken NATO and draw attention away from their own weakened economic picture?
Or is this just a case of an overzealous Syrian military commander taking a potshot at an unidentified flying object and provoking a diplomatic crisis?
As someone who does not believe that war is in any way an economic stimulus and should be avoided beyond self-preservation, I hope that this crisis — and the wider Syrian situation — can be defused.
Those who want to see a big military-Keynesian stimulus may be hoping for an escalation…
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is that why russians are leaving in droves with cash to Swiss?
Stop talking sh*t. Russia will take it up the ass if USA steps it. No one can f*ck with America.
You can point and laugh at the USA for their decline in power last decade, but you cannot question their millitary strength.
If the USA steps into a conflict, rape will be given to the enemy. Not just a regular rape, a black horsedick rape.
Have a nice day sir.
Of course, why else slaughter travelers on the Hajj?
What Assad is doing is drawing the Russians in to bail him out. Has he read the Russians correctly? Can Hillary work a deal with the Russians? Here is her chance to show whats she's got. I think the substance for a deal is there. Goodbye Assad.
"I think the substance for a deal is there."
Right...
Putin may be a lot of things, but he isn't an idiot. He smells the decay of the West and he's willing to call bluffs.
absolutely. putin is one cagey clever fuck.
When China, built and financed through American political stupidity, "repatriates" Taiwan; then you will know.
I don't think we suspect the half of how clever Putin is. He is one of the most dangerous men on the world stage today. I watch Russian TV every day and see Putin and the way the people around him cower in fear of him. He is an absolute despot and wouldn't hesitate to crush anyone and anything who stood in his way.
When I saw him recently at the G20 sitting with Obama, Putin's eyes told a far different story than his mouth. Obama looked like a mouse and Putin looked like a rattlesnake. His eyes were rattling but Obama was completely oblivious to the danger.
Yes, indeed. In a way I have some admiration for Putin, as he seems to be one of, if not THE, most effective national leaders in the world today, and he certainly has made our presidents look like the sock puppets that they are. But when I do, I'm reminded of how many people in the US admired Hitler back in the early 1930's, when he was viewed as having turned Germany around, and the holocaust was still in the future. Hopefully Putin will not take Russia down a similar route, but highly effective, ruthless, and undemocratic rulers are something to be feared.
The fact that he kicked out and arrested the Oligarchs and Rothschilds over the last 10 years wins my support. Nobody else has ever had the balls to do that.
Uh, there was a well known German politician of the 1930's who wrested control of that country's banks and currency away from perceived foreign influences. Possibly rather similar foreign influences. But it ultimately didn't work out well for him, his party, nation, or the world generally.
LOL well said sir. Paul just took it up the ass. Take it like a man Paul!
Good idea! Determinedly issuing maps to pilots - with borders clearly marked - would seem to be appropriate!
In case of GPS failure / glitches, perhaps some really big bouys with billboards on them "Syrian Airspace Ahead! Turn around now!"
I do not this moment know if the pilots were recovered.
If not, ZH might want to be aware of a QF-4 variant. The Q designator in front of aircraft denotes that they have been modified as remote controlled or autonomously controlled drones, usually done for hauling targets and air to air gunnery training -- far far less common now with air to air missiles than in the past, but nevertheless, QF-4s do exist.
It's hard to order an aircrew to go out and penetrate someone's airspace and get shot down. The QF-4 alternative becomes preferable.
Wouldn't surprise me a bit. This has all the hallmarks of probing for a response/provocation. Syria was well within it's rights, but somehow I feel they took the bait.
A bit more to it than mere baiting.
Another F-4 variant is the RF-4 -- an aircraft with super sophisticated cameras for recon work. A QRF-4 becomes very possible.
These are needed even in the days of satellite imagery because satellites and their overhead pass times are predictable. And, of course, there is the matter of clouds.
Turkey hasn't really been a great ally to the US lately. When we invaded Iraq, they would not allow us to use air bases stationed there. I suspect the Turks acted alone..
The most sensible post I've yet read.
http://www.debka.com/article/22112/Newly-supplied-Russian-Buk-M2-anti-ai...
Provocation? North Korean flag used in US-South Korea war gameshttp://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/22/12354912-provocation-nor...
For Russia, there really is no downside in intervening in Syria to keep the Assad regime in power. It antagonizes the US and Nato. It marginalizes Isreal, which will not intervene, while strengthening ties between Russia and the ME. It creates a forum for an alliance with China. Any conflict would allow Russia to emerge stronger and the US and NATO weaker.
"while strengthening ties between Russia and the ME"
Except Turkey and Saudi Arabia seem to both be against the Syrian Regime. What allies does the regime have, that the Russians can gain influence with?
Syria, Iran, Hezbollah
Gee, I don't know ... Why wouldn't a sovereign make it clear that they intend to defend their airspace from transgressions? Under international law, a military aircraft that wanders into another country's airspace without permission is fair game ... the transgression itself is the act of war.
as even the turks acknowledge, the plane was in syrian airspace... even we nato hawks cant make a casus belli from that. killing civilians en masse is. nato is keeping its cool because a- syria doesnt have much oil and b- the reds are backing em.
The reds? Lol, that takes me back a good 25 years ...
Russia and China are telling NATO that Syria is the line in the sand.
Step over it and start playing with the big boyz.
All I know as a veteran is that me or my family will not fight on be fighting on foreign soil again. When Camels or rickshaws start coming over the Ozark Mountains then yes we are going to show them Cambodia all over again(first they teach you how to read a map and a compass so you can never get lost, then they try to tell you we were never there, you were lost son-whatever dude your the one that is lost)
It ain't me, it ain;t' me, Im no Senators son no-- CCR
"When Camels or rickshaws start coming over the Ozark Mountains"
Thank you for this image.
I heard that a remake of "Red Dawn" is planned, with North Korea in the enemy role.
If NATO dare to provoke a war in Syria, Then China and Russia will make sure Iran is fully nuclear armed (including every fucking ''dictatorships'' the West hates). Plus EU is at its epic weakness regarding their economic and social stability. Including the USA. So a big WW3 will eventually set Euroasia free and end the dollar hedgemony once it for all.
Bring it on. Your warmongering NATO piece of shit
Come on now, don't hold back, tell us what you really feel.
he feels like singing, "I scream, you scream, we all scream for Ice wine!".
If the Canuks can do it so can we! Reisling wine and Tchechen swine, to feed Syriana swan song under Nato orgues of Stalin. Would Stalin like being copy-catted by the Nato rabble?
Who cares, after all anybody can now reply : Saudi, how many divisions, when they are asked Iran how many divisions?
Divisions of drones and Teheran blues and previsions of visions of Mecca dawn and Mig reviews. We are in the Swan lake ballet of black swan fame.
Waxing poetic?
in desperation.
NATO isn't warmongering... NATO's two dominant members are warmongering. There is a difference. And one might ask why NATO continued in existence after 1991. Most of its members, other than the US and UK, have asked that question.
As a veteran, I or my family will not be serving again anytime soon.
Remember the US has had planes shot down plenty of times and no wars have errupted. We shot down a civilian airliner and still no war with Iran.
“Intentionally” is rather an inflammatory word at this stage, since there’s been no dispute that a non-Syrian plane entered Syrian airspace. The word defensive, so far, would be the most appropriate description.
The fact is, there is an intense war on the ground in Syria, a civil war in which the Obama Administration has already picked a side and is involved (Ron Paul's latest revelation indicates CIA assistance already has been delivered). And what is the explanation why a warplane of a foreign government is in that airspace?
Whether or not Syria wants a war, it’s obvious that Zionists want a war and the author of this piece is contributing to that hope.
+1
The omissions in the msm are quite startling. Around February this year, the touted number of people killed in Syria was around 5000, but what NOBODY (except non-western media) stated was the fact that almost half of those were police and soldiers. I don't doubt that after such losses the government security apparatus over-reacted in some instances, and so fuelled the whole demon Syria thing. I don't doubt either, considering the behaviour of our police and army in the recent past, that the exact same pictures we see in Syria will be seen in our streets if deniable thugs are sent to our countries to kill OWS protestors and the police in their thousands.
Thanks, very valuable info. The more light we can focus on this subject, the more lives that can be saved from the greed and ambition of empire.
It’s interesting that the omissions and manipulations in msm information always seem to fit the goals of the Bilderbergers who met recently in Chantilly, Virginia, for their annual meeting, An observer said that the group was determined to force a war in the ME while at the same time generating support for a global war treasury department (to evolve from the IMF per Trichet) – a significant step toward funding their goal of world governance as stated by European Council President Herman Van Rompuy.
You're welcome mate. Along with "MyPuppyforPrez" and a whole bunch of others, your vocal efforts for sanity in opposition to war is well appreciated.
It's funny, I think somebody intimated that I might be you in disguise a month ago which cheered me up for the whole week.
I would be equally cheered to be mistaken for you.
it takes two to tango and btw the number of casualties in Syria is more like 15000!
“There are many competing casualty lists,” according to Al Akhbar, and the popular figure touted in February, as discussed here, was about 5000: On the other hand, the Syracuse University College of Law Impunity Watch website ran a report from The Syrian Network for Human Rights and Damascus Centre for Human Rights Studies yesterday that claims the death toll as of June 21 was 15,163. As you know, different groups have different motivations for reporting casualties to prove or advance their points.
Here is how Questioning the Syrian “Casualty List” was reported by Al Akhbar on February 23, 2012:“In the case of the raging conflict over Syria, the one fundamental issue that motors the entire international debate on the crisis is the death toll and its corollary: the Syrian casualty list.
“The ‘list’ has become widely recognized – if not specifically, then certainly when the numbers are bandied about: 4,000, 5,000, 6,000 – sometimes more. These are not mere numbers; they represent dead Syrians.
“But this is where the dangers of perception begin. There are many competing Syrian casualty lists with different counts – how does one, for instance gauge if X is an accurate number of deaths? How have the deaths been verified? Who verifies them and do they have a vested interest? Are the dead all civilians? Are they pro-regime or anti-regime civilians? Do these lists include the approximately 2,000 dead Syrian security forces? Do they include members of armed groups? How does the list-aggregator tell the difference between a civilian and a plain-clothes militia member?...”
Et cetera…
The untold story in Syria (and in Iraq and Egypt as well) is that the western destablization of the regime is putting Christians in mortal danger, should the regime be toppled and the Muslim Bro'hood (aka CIA-MOSSAD tool) be installed as a puppet regime.
So, by supporting the Zionist agenda of overthrowing Assad, American "Christians" are perfectly willing to sacrifice ME Christians in order to be faithful to Israel. Now doesn't that make perfect sense?
In Orwellia, I guess. I can tell you from personal experience that the vast majority of evangelical Christians in the US know NOTHING of the truth regarding Zionism, history of the ME, propaganda, etc. They only know what Fox News and their pastors tell them: "We must support Israel at all costs....they are our faithful ally, and God will not bless us if we do not bless Israel."
It makes me want to vomit everytime I encounter this zombie-like mantra. My question to them is this: Are you really "blessing" a country by ENABLING their violence and sociopathy? That is NOT true love, if you ask me.
It appears that Russian instructors actually brought down Turkey's F-4:
http://ncrenegade.com/editorial/putins-syrian-knight-just-put-obama-in-check/
casus belli...at last!
They don't dare... it would be like going into a lion's den.
calling general Daniel, calling...
Nope, the eurasians tried that before sinking a South Korean warship and failed.
An old plane won't do it either.
hey, not from my perspective; theirs!
Nope syria has to protect it's airspace as a sovreign nation, not to do so woulld be a mistake, then you've got them thinking they can impose a no fly zone, etc. plus surviellence for missle targets.
also if escalation has the ptoential for spreading, missles to israel, etc.
nope they did the right thing. let nato know actions have consequences.
Disagree.
The west wants to set up a nofly, the shift in SNA tactics over the last few months focusing on armor, anti sabhina/hezbollah groups and convoy attacks are forcing assad to use air assets to provide firepower, remember ww2 city battles?
Its just a single step of the process by which stage managed situations are portrayed as problems to which the west 'HAS' to respond.
The only reason its not happened yet is due to russian obstruction.
Last thing the syrian regime needs to do is give nato excuses to intervene in any form in syria.
Personally i would not be at all shocked if it turned out to be an f4 drone like the one that hit the pentagon...........Just kidding NSA boys;-)
Assad is going down. That is a given. Now it is just a question of how and when he assumes room temperature.
I wonder if he will ultimately be dragged out of a hole or sewage pipe like some of his peers. Or perhaps he will be scraped off the rubble when the residence is flattened.
I also wonder what will become of his fine Western wife (AsssssMaaa).
Will she have to downsize to smaller estates in London and Zurich?
* sniff *
if he does, Russia's current actions as to make sure they get to install the next puppet.
Emotional hatred of media painted targets of the leaders of other countries such as Saddam Hussein, Ahmadinejad, Assad, Gaddafi. Arafat and others is a quick and easy way to be tough with the world’s largest military behind you. And it is an easy way to slaughter millions of innocent people and steal the resources of their country to deliver to the global banker cartel.
And, BTW, all of this fits the playbook of the Zionists and the disappointingly unfettered support of US policy makers for every bloody ambition of the state of Israel.
Personally, I trust what the Bible has to say about Syria.
Isaiah 17:1 An oracle concerning Damascus. Behold, Damascus will cease to be a city and will become a heap of ruins.
Isaiah 17:12-14 12 Ah! The roar of many peoples—they roar like the roaring of the seas. The raging of the nations—they rage like the raging of mighty waters. 14 In the evening—sudden terror! Before morning—it is gone! This is the fate of those who plunder us [Judah] and the lot of those who ravage us.
As a member of the human race, we have a responsibility to stop and think what we are advocating, because if we do not, and we are wrong, we are responsible for a million deaths.
To use the Bible’s Old Testament to kill in the modern world while operating under the new covenant, is a misunderstanding of the Bible and the Gospels.
You are my hero today, JR. Truth to power, brother.
Wow, I wish I could find those Koran quotes referenced by Osama Bin Laden to justify his attack on 9/11. Wouldn't it be funny if you guys turned out to be soul brothers.
From the Middle East to the middle West, religion marches off to war. I wonder what Jesus feels about the loss of his message?
He is not happy, I assure you.
Jesus was killed by the Talmudic Pharisees, whom He rebuked constantly. Modern day Zionism is simply a continuation of Talmudic Phariseeism. Too bad people don't know the difference like Jesus did.
What is happening in the world right now IS part of his message. All of this is predicted. Wars, kingdom rising against kingdom, earthquakes, blah blah.
And yes, even though we are operating under the new law, this does not mean that prophecies from the OT are ignored.
And in this one, Syria puts the hurt on Israel and Israel turns Damascus into a rubble strewn parking lot.
The simple truth of the matter is that regardless of your belief, if the bible says it will happen, it will happen. Lots of specific prophecies made in OT times have comes to pass. All of them eventually will.
This gives some interesting perspective on investing.
Stay long on your defense sector holdings...
It has already happened, i.e., the destruction of Damascus is a prophecy fulfilled. This took place under the kings of Assyria, and particularly under Tiglath-Pileser. This was in the fourth year of Ahaz 2 Kings 16:9.
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
Isa 17:1-11. Prophecy Concerning Damascus and Its Ally Samaria, that is, Syria and Israel, which had leagued together (seventh and eighth chapters).
Life Application Bible: New International Version
17:1ff The northern kingdom and Aram made an alliance to fight against Assyria. But Tiglath-Pileser III captured Damascus, the capital of Aram, in 732 B.C. and annexed the northern kingdom to the Assyrian empire. Ahaz, king of Judah, paid tribute to Tiglath-Pileser III (2 Kings 16: 1-14).
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary 17:1-11 Sin desolates cities. It is strange that great conquerors should take pride in being enemies to mankind; but it is better that flocks should lie down there, than that they should harbour any in open rebellion against God and holiness (the worship of Asherah poles; Asherah was a Canaanite goddess who was the female consort of Baal). The strong holds of Israel, the kingdom of the ten tribes, will be brought to ruin. Those who are partakers in sin, are justly made partakers in ruin. The people had, by sins, made themselves ripe for ruin; and their glory was as quickly cut down and taken away by the enemy, as the corn is out of the field by the husbandman...
Dust doesn't feel.
Plundering Judah?
Ummm...I think not! The Zionist State and control mechanism is almost entirely comprised of Ashkenazi (Khazars) whose ancestors had never stepped one foot in Palestine until the modern "return". And they are no more the "tribe of Judah" than my little Anglo ass!
Does not apply in this instance...
Furthermore, go ask any Sephardic or Messianc Jew who have been THEIR persecutors....the answer, for your convenience, are the Ashkenazis who control Israel. This is proven fact.
Ask Exxon Mobil what they want...........my guess is that they want/or would settle for, a partition of Syria so they can get the Kurdish oil out of Iraq thus bypassing the 'straigt of Whoremuz' (hormuz)
After all, who really determines Foreign Policy?
ask Luke oil what they want. The russians are in control of Syria and will most likely remain so.
Item 1, it's spelled Lukoil and its primary outside-of-Russua leases are in Africa. That's it, outside Russia.
Item 2, Kurdish areas of Iraq already get their oil out of Iraq without using the Straits of Hormuz. There are pipelines northward.
Almost always enjoys your articles John, but come on mate, you're asking the wrong question. First, you have to ask wtf is Turkey/NATO doing sending an ancient F4 into Syrian airspace (When Turkey has more modern F16s than pilots - Turkish Aerospace Industries actually build them under license), particularly when the Syrian air defence command is ALWAYS on high alert for the Israelis who blew up their nuclear power stations (Al Kibar/ Dair Alzour reactors) as recently as 2007?
I still maintain that the whole Syrian demonisation (Ask yourself, What do you think YOUR government would do if heavily armed nutjobs blew up, shot, and murdered over 3000 of your police/soldiers under the guise of "peaceful protests"?) is happening so that ultimately, the Israelis can have an air corridor for their jets to strike Iran. To do that, they have to neutralise the upgraded and Russian-improved Syrian air command, and to do that they have to take over Syria. All anyone has to do is look at a map of the area overlaid with early warning radar coverage to understand what is going on.
You see things quite well for having red shit all over your eyes. +1
You are so right, it is depressing!
Yes, I think this about airspace as well.
*They* are trying to destablise Syria through proxy *protestors* in order to sell the notion of regime change, which will splinter the backbone of the country, creating chaos ... so they don't need to worry about Syrian airspace because the command chain will have *disappeared*.
Before you know it, these *protestors* will be in power somehow (just wait for the sharia law "wahhabi-style" to turn up), and the population will end up cowed and oppressed.
I never thought I would be such a TFH, but I cannot ignore this is an event pattern that seems to be occurring up all over the ME these days. One really wonders who is really behind these *protestors*.
So Israel is destabilizing Syria, and the middle east even further, getting Russia and China involved, putting the world at risk, just so they can have an air corridor to attack Iran?
Yes. But don't take my word for it, do your own research. Anyone with memory retention longer than a goldfish will remember that the Israelis have been threatening to strike Iran for a good number of years now, culminating in the hysterics over Iran's nuclear program last year and the present, while blatantly ignoring Israel's own nuclear arsenals. How are they going to do that with Syria's air defence in the way? I have nothing against decent jewish folks, nor anything against Israel's existence if it ever adhered to UN resolutions about it, but that zionist regime is a danger to us all. Their treatment of Palestinian christians, muslims, and jews is a window into our future, and I equate zionism with the worst excesses of the nazis and racists (So did the UN until 1992 - see resolution 3379). Ironic, in a tragic way for all decent jewsish folks.
They could always fly over Jordan. And neither Iraq nor Saudi Arabia will interfere if they enter their air space on this run.
They could also fly over Turkey too, but the fact remains along with Jordan and Saudi Arabia (Iraq wouldn't pose a problem for them now), political situations with their own people will make that very tricky. The Israelis recently killed a whole bunch of charity workers from Turkey trying to get through the blockade, and as for Jordan and Saudi Arabia, the history is too long to describe here.
Besides, in 2010, the Syrian air defence network was rated the most robust in the region*. I'd bet that it is even better now after the Russian upgrade with early warning capability and the long range SAMs to take on multiple engagements. Even the old SA-5 system could detect a gnat taking off in Tel-Aviv, so that's why I think the Israelis are trying to take out Syria to secure their air corridor.
*http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/syria/air-defense.htm
yhc-ftse: +1
There many narratives to this & even more nuances to spin. I myself prefer to stick to the NATO rhubarb run into a well defended section of Syria e.g. the Russian base. Compounded by a faction in the Turkish government which thinks it can/or even must risk more on the global stage because of some other underlying factor.we'll see. Allegedly it was the threat of capital flight or Gaddhafi pulling his reserves from Italy and France that led to the last war...and look in what state the willing and unwilling participants are now.
Here's how it will go down-
Assad, with Chinese and Russian backing, will prevail, brutally crushing his internal opposition.
This will set up a broad arc of pro Iranian states that stretches from Lebanon through Syria and Iraq (way to go, US), all with the stated aim of (at the very least) seeing that Israel is contained within the 1967 UN boundary.
The US will blink. The truth is that even with FED money printing, the US can't fight a middle east greater war. Romney will win the nomination, (and the election if the Bilderberg visit is an accrurate predictor), but he will have to make significant concessions to the Liberty wing of the Republican party, and non-interventionism is a big part of that.
Europe is moribund- no war effort from that quarter.
When this all falls into place, Israel will find itself abandoned, isolated, and encircled.
When these tidings from the north and the east become apparent, Israel will attack with stunning and overwhelming force. Her only hope of victory is blitzkrieg. Israel will occupy the Temple Mount, and this wil be both her apotheosis and end as a state.
Way too much sophisticated posturing of the US as if 2008 didn't happen ignores the two crushers:
Oil scarcity and the Fiscal Cliff.
Russia holds the oil cards. Not the Middle East.
There is NO WAY that Romney will "compromise" on foreign policy to assuage the liberty movement. He knows his real bosses would disapprove, and honestly, I think he is one of the biggest Zionist idealogues out there...just look at his dual-citizen close advisors, including the most dangerous one of all, Dov Zacheim.
If Romney wants to stay alive, he will do AIPAC's bidding. He could care less about the "liberty wing"!
The game is over
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAdu0N1-tvU
Ben Bernanke has been, and is now, a threat to the national security of the U.S. His policies, supposedly put in place to thwart recession and economic contraction [normal parts of the economic cycle], have exposed the U.S. to potential economic tyranny from the rest of the world. His attempt to debauch the U.S. dollar and his work to pervert the market for U.S. debt [twist] are only the beginning of his economic vanity. He has fueled federal government spending via his bond buying habits, thus helping to saddle the U.S. with unsustainable debt. Without his accommodation, Washington DC would have long ago been forced to contract spending.
While there is a long list of folks to blame for the debt that is now clouding America's future, it is Ben Bernanke that has facilitated continued DC spending during these last four years when our government should have been paring back...parallel to what is going on in the private sector, our "recovery" notwithstanding. Should world buyers of U.S. debt now fail to materialize, all we have left as a way of funding our government is money printing [the Japanese model]. Just as Wall Street has crowded "investors" out of equity markets with their geeked up and leveraged HFT nonsense, so too has Bernanke pushed real buyers of US treasuries out of the market.
When one steps back and looks at the mess that is now the largest capital markets in the world, one is left to consider whether or not this was all quite intentional. A seventh grade student in the US public school system could see that you cannot entirely pervert markets and then expect market forces to work ["animal spirits"]. Furthermore, another war will do nothing to change these facts.
Capital formation is dead in America. And as such, so too are the equity and treasury markets. Thank you, Ben Bernanke, for this wasteland of your creation.
Good enough post to give you a +1 bump.
I would caution though, not to become mesmerized by focusing only on Bernanke, tempting as it is. He is the visible spokesman for other unsavory parasites who prefer to remain anonymous and operate behind the scenes. Bernanke is but one head of the Hydra.
Pretty much what I just said -but I have to give you credit for saying it first.
True-but you give too much credit to Ben -like Obama, he's just a puppet. The question is who are the puppetteers behind the scene pulling the strings? Who runs the shadow government that controls Ben, Obama, the media , Wall Street and Congress?
I think a better solution to this would be to send the MSM and our politicians over to Syria and let them stay there until they have fixed all of Syria's problems. We could bring our military back home, and with the politicans+media gone we might just save our economy. Problem solved!
"As someone who does not believe that war is in any way an economic stimulus and should be avoided beyond self-preservation, I hope that this crisis — and the wider Syrian situation — can be defused."
I agree with this with the caveat 'In a rational worldview'. We can all witness the indulgence in fantasy that is rampant among the leadership today.
A decidedly low confidence bet I would not take. One I will take is Assad stays and the Russian Naval base is secure.
NATO does not scare Putin, particularly with China and Iran in the wings.
CIA meddling in Syria has opened a much bigger can of worms than expected and Obama, I suspect, is sly enough to know it. I damn sure hope so.
Psychopaths are hard to read.
Perhaps Iran wants to suck the US and Israel into a war with Syria to take the pressure off Iran itself. Iran needs more time to build its nuclear arsenal, and a war with Syria buys time.
It is bit ridiculous to assume that Iran would welcome the additional presence in the region of NATO (translation: US forces) since they are aware that the ambition and goal for the state of Israel is western (translation: Israeli) control over all of the oil producing Islamic nations.
"Perhaps Iran wants to suck the US and Israel into a war with Syria to take the pressure off Iran itself."
This is just plain stupid. Like saying Peter wanted to start a fight with Jack by punching him in his fist with his face.
Use your enemy's hand to catch the snake.
Persian proverb.
It backfired for the partition of the Golden Horde.
Just look at the map. Syria borders Georgia, where the South Ossetia conflict was lost. So NATO probably figures they need to take out Syria to prop up Georgia in case a war with Iran is under way.
The fighter shot down would have had to go well out of its way to get shot down by Syria, even though it might have been shot down just within territorial waters, as Syria borders with Turkey on the coast.
The biggest obstacle to any regional theatre conflict is anti-aircraft. Looks like Russian AA works just fine. What NATO really wants to know is whether the Pantsyr-1 is actually working as advertised, they're probably attempting to arrive at aircraft loss calculations right now. Obviously 3rd generation aircraft are sitting ducks. You can get all kinds of intel by using obsolete aircraft over disputed territory and having it shot down.
The Pantsyr-1, if you will remember was claimed to have been blasted by Israeli F-15s deep inside Syria, insisting it was a nuclear reactor. The Russians were apopolectic in defending their AA missile unit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdGZ5y8aEyI
I suggest you take your own advice, and look at a map. Syria and Georgia have this big ass country called Turkey inbetween them.
Oh yes, my mistake. Still doesn't change anything.
What it changes is this: "So NATO probably figures they need to take out Syria to prop up Georgia in case a war with Iran is under way." Georgia factors into this how? Not much as I can see, it's fly over country the size of Virginia as far as the Russians are concerned.
You're most likely right about the anti aircraft and loss estimation.
Here’s your answer; it’s the Neocon War against Russia. Here’s Pat Buchanan on Lew Rockwell a few months ago:
Bush had long sought to bring Georgia into NATO. Only the resistance of Old Europe had prevented it.
And had Georgia been a member of NATO when Saakashvili began his war, U.S. Marines and Special Forces might have been on the way to the Caucasus to confront Russian troops in a part of the world where there is no vital U.S. interest and never has been any U.S. strategic interest whatsoever...
McCain foreign policy adviser Randy Scheunemann had been paid $290,000 by the Saakashvili regime, from January 2007 to March 2008, to get Georgia into NATO, and thus acquire a priceless U.S. war guarantee to fight on Georgia's side in any clash with Russia.
What makes this history relevant today?
Sen. Marco Rubio, rising star of the Republican right, on everyone's short list for VP, called for a unanimous vote, without debate, on a resolution directing President Obama to accept Georgia's plan for membership in NATO at the…NATO summit in Chicago…
http://lewrockwell.com/buchanan/buchanan199.html
Exactly 71 years ago, German NAZIs invaded the Soviet Union. They were at the top of their glory, success, and power. They were among the major initiators of the WWII. They were about to conquer the entire world sharing it with their British cousins. The future for German NAZIs looked excellent. It all started with the Reichstag fire on 27 February 1933.
But there were some problems: the top NAZI leaders were naïve and extremely arrogant. The NAZI leaders intended to destroy the Soviet Jewish Bolshevism State and, at the same time, have a lovely relationship with Zionist World Banking Mafia in Britain and the USA. They were idiots.
In just less than 4 years, the Stalin armies were on a German soil destroying the NAZI state killing and raping Germany and its people. The NAZI leaders’ and their Italian and Japanese allies’ geopolitical miscalculations were incredible.
Now, Zionist NAZIs are trying to conquer the entire world sharing it with nobody. It appears that a WWIII with its nuclear holocaust will not stop them at all. It is all started on the 9/11. Like with the German NAZI leadership, the Zionist NAZI leadership is extremely nearsighted and arrogant.
It appears that the rest of us are for very dangerous and bumpy ride ahead of us. As for timing, in my view, we are in a situation similar to the second part of 1930s.
Syria shot first, so all we need now is a slogan.
"A day that will live in infamy" No, used that already.
"Remember the F-4!!" No. Doesn't seem grand enough.
"Let's make the world safe for Al-Queda!!" No. Just no.
"Whip up the hysteria!! To war with Syria!!" Sweet.
Now to run it up the flagpole and see if they salute.
Ctrl + F4, www.syria.gov/antiaircraft.response
go.
'Oops! Google Chrome could not find www.syria.gov'
this link is either blocked or does not existDoesn't exist.
Was making a nerd F4 key new search window joke.
Explorer couldn't find it either.
How about: 'If you have diarea, then blame syria'.
Sure it makes no sence, but that hasn't stoped us killing and invading before.
Actually, that's a good slogan. The logic for the average citizen goes like this:
1. I have a distressing personal problem.
2. Those goddamned Syrians caused the problem.
3. Kill those goddamned Syrians.
Now if you'll excuse me I've got to go and fix the food supply.
Hey, I kinda like:
"Let's make the world safe for Al-Queda!!"
Worked well enough for Big Brother when he periodically switched allies. What the US needs is a new and mandatory appliance - The Memory Hole Incinerator. Now that could jump start China's sinking economy. I myself would pay the big bux and by the Braun model. Wouldn't want any embarrassing slip ups.
Better spill more blood to make the world safe for democraships.
Regarding the overall stimulus effects of military conflicts, see comments on preserving infrastructure as being paramount here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/observations-engineer
syria already has a war on its hands, thanks to the flip-flops from the new nappyEmperor of the EU, france
this analysis leaves out the UN games, perhaps correctly b/c they will not go the way of libya here
but, without UN cover to "protect civilians" the NAT0 crime familiy will simply be left with arming and reinforcing them
syria will obligingly keep killing them, i would imagine; the UN will keep counting the bodies and saying: ain't it awful? but russia and china will not hold their noses over this mercenary diplomacy any longer, imo, as i've been saying for 6 months at least, and which is now, of course, playing out
The ruling elite are fully prepared to survive nuclear war provided they are the ones to initiate it, giving themselves time to get out of Dodge and hunker down in remote Southern Hemisphere locations loaded with assets for post-nuclear re-propagation of the species and re-industrialization of the world through new technologies that they own and have carefully stashed away. I strongly believe that there are many in the elites of every country who would like nothing better than to depopuulate the planet so that they could rebuild it in their own image. Whether things have gone so far as to actually plan this scenario I have no way of knowing. But when you look at the nature of these psychotic beasts you realize how improbable it is that they are not planning exactly such a set of events. The funny thing is that by their nature they believe that they control all key events and that the law of unintended consequences does not apply to them. Cold comfort indeed when most of the people on the planet are in their last moments on earth watching the missile trails in the sky descending toward their cities, or are huddled in rural areas choking on the glowing dust from those cities, but I have to believe that the elites who plan to survive all this and to prosper in a new world are going to have their own "Oh Shit" moment as well when that old Law comes calling at their Southern Hemisphere doors.
Or maybe this is just an old man's cynical speculation. I sure hope so. But increasingly I don't think so.
I'm a middle age man, and I fully agree with you.
However I do think the "top of the pyrmamid" knows this (that no one, anywhere on this planet will "escape"). What is then their "plan B"?
Starve the "useless eaters". IMO, it's actually their "plan A".
As in all previous wars, the overwhelming majority of deaths are not through combatants shooting each other, but through starvation and disease in civilian populations when supply chains are blocked or diverted -- usually as a result of scorched earth or forced diversion of food production.
With very little private agriculture remaining in the west, 'they' won't be firing any nukes ... they just need to whip up enough of a conflict between the bear and the eagle to disrupt the modern JIT supply chains that are controlled by just a few large MegaCorporations.
Nukes are just tooooo messy for the survivors....
nice iran and syria are being forced into war numb nuts.
what if a turkish guy is contantly coming into your garden making lots of noise day and night causing you problems.
he is always really nice to your face but you know the fat fuck is scheming.you understand his duplicity and remember what happened to the armenian and the kurdish people.
sometimes you get a feeling he has been inside your home but are not sure because you are not geting much sleep and are worried.
you later find out his american friend controllers have had all your credit lines nulled and bank accounts frozen all your foreign assets have been stolen.
you cannot work,you cannot sell anything you are an ex person and seen as a mad dog in some circles.
you then find out this guy is paying local holigans to smash your windows shit on your doorstep and plant bombs in your herb garden.
someone shot your cat and blew up your favorite garden gnome.
if you came home one day tired and found that fat turkish cia asset on your bed eating your food watching tv.
a warm steaming turkish turd on your deep pile cream carpet.
are you gonna escort him out or smash the fucker into pieces and give him to a kurdish friend of yours to finish him off : )
Anti-American BS from the House of Saud.
The most likely course of events will be that Turkey is let off the leash without any overt NATO backing; forcing China and Russia to take position.
Does Syria and iran Want A War?
should be corrected.
do the bankstas in the uk,usa and switzerland need a war.
this is all the analysis you need about us foreign policy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfL4S5nI3Kw
Yes, yes yes.
Yes, yes yes.
Tony,well said.Me thinks Aziz got a call from his cousin,Fouad Azmi.before writing this piece of drivel.
Maybe Syria does not like NATO warplanes flying in their airspace .... ?
I can't imagine why not-they may shoot some terrorists. Look at all the good our drones have done in Pakistan and about 8 other countries. Granted, we've killed thousands of innocent civilians and destroyed billions of dollars in property - but if they were properly insured with decent life and property insurance, their families should do okay. If they had no insurance -well who the hell's fault is that? Did America stop them from getting proper insurance. Goddammit -let's just blame America again. People need to be held accountable for their foolish decisions and held accountable for their actions-- and maybe they should have thought all of this before they chose to live in neighborhoods inhabited by terrorists.
Right on Savvyindallas - let's take it another step though. Since a lot of these terrorist-looking scumbags apparently believe in reincarnation is America to blame for their poor choice of parents and ethnicity? I mean, they didn't have to come back into a society where men wear turbans and skirts and women hide their faces ( what the hell are they doing behind those burkahs anyway - plotting something I'm sure). Wedding parties? Give me a break. It is well known that terrorists like to get all dressed up in fancy clothes and dance around waving handkerchiefs in the air, so pardon us if our drone rains fire on your silly parade. USA! USA!
So there, ragheads.
Oh, it just saddens me to think of what our elites have to put up with. We are really not worthy. Lloyd Blankfein is trying to do God's work, and what do we do? We mock him -and embarrass him before Congress. It cost him and his partners billions in bonuses. It just makes me sick.
These guys are smart. They know what's good for us. If they think we need to bomb syria and possibly start a war and possble nuclear Armeggeddon with Russia- then they must have a damned good reason for it. Obama is not my first choice. I'd much prefer Sarah Palin or Donald Trump. After nearly four years of Obama -yes we ALL miss George Bush and Dick Cheney. But Obama is our Commander in Chief -and we don't want the Muslim towel heads pulling off another 9/11. --- And don't underestimate them. They outsmarted NORAD, they can do amazing, thought to be impossible maneuvers on 767s, with little or no training, and somehow rigged up three skyscrapers with thermite charges to set off controlled demolitions- causing discord and dissension among the people as these conspiracy nuts are all out there blaming Bush and the Neocons-and even our beloved Israel.
The original design of the F-4 Phantom is quite old (1960's) but the model the Turks are using is a fully upgraded/modernized F-4E Terminator. Its main mission is groud-attack with decent A2A performance compared to the opposition. I believe that mechanical failure is possible but not probable.
And anyways, what is a small "intervention" in Syria going to do for the economy as a whole? Dropping percision munitions, moving strike groups around and arming the government opposition isn't going to generate much, if any, major Keynes-like spending/stimulus. If there is action it will be a drop in the bucket, low intensity. Long term I could see Egypt, Libya and a post-Assad Syria being totally unstable and require more attention, but even that would be a drop in the bucket.
This whole thing is just crazy.
This is a classic example of a probing maneuver by the F-4 to cause the Syrian air defense system to reveal itself and its capabilities to hostile surveilance systems. Syria does not want war. Such an assertion is absurd beyond belief as are so many others in our Orwellian times. Those connected to the noisestream media, umbilically, believe such rubbish and can't distinguish rightfull self defense from obvious naked aggression.
"War is the health of the State" stated a perceptive observer of governments. That phrase is baffling to most, but here is a short explanation using recent examples. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were about oil and in Iraqs' case also about their intention to stop acccepting dollars in exchange for their oil thus threatening the mechanism the US State uses to plunder the rest of the world. Simultaneously a "war on terror" was declared, with Dick Cheney declaring it would last the rest of our lives. These "wars" were used as cover to massively increase surveillance of all Americans, expand the existing totalitarian security apparatus protecting the State, by adding Homeland Security to it and drive the stake more deeply into the heart of the US Bill of Rights through Executive orders and congressional legislation. Those are examples of the State arrogating new powers over its subjects to itself; thus improving the "health of the State" Now who are the constituent parts of the State in the US? The clowns on your TV set, CONgress, etc, merely veil the true owners: In order of ascendancy: The private bank cartel(Federal Reserve) that runs the US including all of its ancilliary parts comprised of the 12 Reserve Banks, Primary Dealers, and the rest of the entities that flesh out the financialization sector, the giant global corporations(GE) etc, the Defense Industry, the Health Care Cartel, the News Cartel (of course!) and others too numerous to mention. They are the State. They all LOVE WAR. They profit by it or gain new powers over others through it.
So expect a new war very soon. It is good for business and good for control, over you.
The flash point for WW 1 was a little country named Serbia. Now as then we see States aligning against each other either for or against Syria. Don't fall for it.
GUEST POST: "Does Syria Want A War?"
...WMD HILLARY: "Some in Iran Want to be Attacked!"
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/157119?#.T-YElPX-1uJ
- Breaking: Turkish PM Erdogan invites all major political party' heads for a meeting to be held tomorrow.
- Turkish foreign minister Davutoglu will make a statement on Sunday at 10:30 local time on state TV re downed Turkish jet.
Bullish for war.
'Syria': "The War Agaist the Terror Masters" by Michael A. Ledeen c.2002-03
Excerpts : Henry Kissinger once called Syrian Dictator Hafez al-Assad " the most fascinating man in the Middle East"
"Hafez al-Assad was a sort of dictator Western intellectuals and diplomats find attractive, even though he was not a big personality and never rewarded them for their praise, and even though he was a mass murderer on an historic scale. When members of the Muslim Brotherhood attempted to stage an insurrection against Assad in the early 1980s, he responded by slaughtering between thirty and forty thousand people in the city of Hama, expelling another hundred thousand, and then bulldozing the center of the town into the sand. And Hafez was corrupt as other terrorist masters, having quietly transferred billions of dollars into European bank accounts. His son and successor, Bashar, has not been openly challenged, so we do not know if he is as ruthless and corrupt as his father, but Bashar referred to the Hama massacre in conversations with American diplomats and congressmen after September 11, brazenly calling it a successful anti-terrorist policy."
"Syria occupies Lebanon - another of the Assads' brutal acts that escape Western condemnation - and dictates policy on the ground there. Hezbollah is based in Lebanon's Bekka Valley, and could not possibly operate without Syrian approval and support, nor could Iran provide its share of Hezbollah's wealth and weaponry without agreement from Damascus" end quoted excerpts
There are a plethora of excerpted quotes I could present, but I find the above most enlightening and beneficial jmo
Note: Syria has toyed carelessly with communism with great militarist ambitions - Marxism / Nassarism / Fascism - and often times closely aligned to Egypt. Yes, indeed Syria has a large stockpile of chemical weapons [Saddam was fingered, but America new quite well, it was Syria that was complicit] retro-fitted to ballistic missiles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Mandate_of_Syria_and_Lebanon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashar_al_Assad
Excellent Read as usual, Aziz :-))
Oh, and by the way,... Syria has the Saud's by the balls because of the Kingdom's current social unrest and crippling economy [created by OPEC & Globalization?], thus leaving the 'Wahhabis' [extremist Islamist, Sunni-Jihadist] to ruffle some geo-political feathers in the ME? again, jmo
Battle lines are being drawn; the Sino-Russian alliance will not allow their access to oil to be endangered.
Really? The Sino-Russian alliance are worried about their access to oil?
If Russia is so worried about their access to all that oil, why are they the worlds largest exporter of oil? Perhaps they could just send some to China if they were best buddies and stuff.
Goodbye Syria, than Goodbye Iranian hostile govt, and hellow democratic Iranian govt,
Crude oil spikes to 150 per barrel, than when Iranian democratic govt takes over,
Crude drops to 60.00 per barrell, JUST IN TIME FOR THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION,
AND THAN EVEN ROMMNEY WILL VOTE FOR OBAMA, ohhh yeah!!!!
From the Desk of The Greatest; Mitt Romney
"Dear Friends,
I am so sorry to disappoint you but, my God man, Obama has made me more money in the last 6 months than I have ever dreamed possible. When I asked myself , could I make 20B in 6 months as President by blanketing Bain operated companies with free govt money , I thought to myself it just wasn't possible , what with the debt situation.
My God Man, Obama makes the Cheney presidency look like fucking pussies (sorry honey hey). I have never seen such "gratitude" paid towards corporate America. Friends, I know you'll understand when I say ; Cheney thought in the low billions, while Obama thinks in 10s of trillions... all for us. To the .001% club that I have been dying to enter. I have arrived. Forbes 400 # 7 by my calculation. Now, a few friendly overtures like handing all my campaign money (sorry your contributions) to Obama and I may get to number 1 in time for next year's issue.
The Romney Family wrestled with this as the kids really looked forward to blowing the shit out of brown people with the cool predator toys. Even tying our dog to the top of Air force one. But they knew it has been a life long ambition of mine that seemed to always be denied, to be number one not only on the Forbes 400 by the Forbes richest Global 400 list. By God, I am a sovereign fund . Me. Mittens. I fucking love it. (Sorry kids)
As I retake the CEO position at Bain, please understand. Obama is good for all of us .001% ters. I think you'll understand why I have to vote for the only real President we could ever ask for ; Barack Obama.
Don't even try to sue me either assholes.
Your Friend
Mitt.
The writer of this post asks "why did the Syrians do it?" If by "it" the writer is referring to Syria's downing of a Turkish warplane that entered Syria's airspace without Syria's consent while flying at low altitude and high speed, the answer to the question is obvious: Syria took a legitimate act of self-defence. This is a fundamental aspect of this incident which the writer of the post simply ignores. Based on the version of the story promulgated by the Syrian government, Syria had every right to do what it did. And I have not heard the Turks contest Syria's version of what happened. Now I am no expert in the treaty governing NATO, but I understand that that treaty obliges member states to protect a member who comes under attack. If in fact Turkey's warplane entered Syrian airspace at low altitude and at high speed without the consent of the Syrian government, then no rational argument can be advanced, either by Turkey or NATO's dominant member (the United States), that Turkey was attacked.
Here comes trouble:
"Turkey's foreign minister has said the fighter jet shot down by Syrian air defence forces on Friday was in international airspace when it was hit."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18568412
Turkey Admits Plane Strayed Into Syrian Airspace
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/06/23/153548/turkey-admits-downed-plane-...The Turks to wanted to see what the Syrian's had on the border (or ather, some arse in NAOT asked them to do it ... name probably starts with 'O').
And they found out they should mind their own business, and stay the hell out of the area.
Syria is NOT going to pick-a-war with Turkey, nor with the wider NATO context.
It is Turkey who's an unlawful aggressor here, and the Syrian's a lawful defender.
There is no way Syria did anything wrong here, they were well within their rights. I do not think Syria is trying to start something here, quite the reverse, they are trying defuse this and move past it as quickly as they can, and Turkey would be very foolish to not reciprocate, given their disgraceful role.
The idea that NATO has a pretext or obligation to intervene in this case, seems rather absurd.
If Turkey deliberately invaded Syrian territory to collect targeting data, which is the actual tactical and combat roll the RF-4s in their air force, then NATO had no obligation whatsoever to come to Turkey's defense in such a situation.
NATO is a DEFENSE alliance ... it is not supposed to be a AGGRESSOR-support alliance .
That's what NATO absolutely ISN'T supposed to be.
Well, it's not supposed to be that, but they seem to have conveniently forgotten that little point somewhere along the line, and it doesn't help when you have a lying psychotic zionist arse like Hillary Clinton cheering for aggression and war, every opportunity she can feign, so she can earn some new bribes to stay on the gravvy-train.
It was not Syria who started this, they just ended it before their security could be further compromised by Turkey.
Turkey is clearly the trouble-maker here, and we should be watching what they are doing, far more carefully, as they have been cut too much slack, and now Turkey's military antics are becoming a serious international problem.
What people in NATO countries should be asking is; why is Turkey trying to get a war started, and to thus try to turn it into an international war?
Furthermore, should a country that behaves like this be in NATO given the grave risk Turkey's belligerence behaviour represents?
Turkey needs to behave and stick to its knitting.
There's something wrong when it's leadership is pulling such foolish and dangerous war-like stunts.
Do the people of NATO want to be involved in a regional war, deliberately provoked by Turkey?
It seems that NATO-TPTB wouldn't mind a gigantic war or three, right now though.
Mid East war with an oil spike to $150 will shut the America economy down. Our economy can't even get a new grip at $78 a barrel.
Your claim that the war on drugs negative effects at "the border" would come as a big surprise to the
1 out of every 106 White Men
1 out of every 36 Hispanic Men
1 out of ever 15 Black Men
incarcerated in the U.S.
Since border checkpoints aren't even on the borders anymore, maybe it's better to call them ... crypto-Nazi checkpoints:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kantS-kzIWU