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Guest Post: Is An Economic Deluge Nigh?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by David Galland of Casey Research

Is An Economic Deluge Nigh?

If history has taught one certain lesson, it is that the less fettered an economy, the better humankind is able to do what it does best: run from trouble and run toward opportunity. In this way mistakes are quickly resolved and progress assured.

Conversely, the deeper the muck of regulation, mandates, taxes, subsidies and other bureaucratic meddling, the slower we humans are in following our natural instincts until the point that progress is slowed or even stopped.

It is said that history doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes. In the current circumstances, it appears that enough time has passed that current generations have completely forgotten the critical connection between the ability of humans to freely pursue their aspirations and economic progress.

You can see this ignorance in the popular demand for even more, not less, meddling in the affairs of humankind. Should this trend continue – and for reasons I will touch on momentarily, I firmly believe it will – then the aspirations of the productive minority will soon be dampened by ever higher taxes and other attempts to "level the playing field" and the global economy, already in tatters, will fall off the edge.

There is no more timely nor acute example of this growing trend than what is currently going on in France. I refer, of course, to the first round of the presidential election process, scheduled for this weekend.

In France, if no candidate attracts no better than 50% of the vote, then the two leading candidates go to a decisive runoff vote, this time around to be held on May 6.

The current president, Nicolas Sarkozy, a conservative in name only, was running at a fairly steady gait toward re-election (thanks to the head start awarded all incumbents), when leading socialist candidate Francois Hollande came out with a proposal to tax anyone with an annual income of over one million euros at a rate of 75%. He also promised to add a tax on all financial transactions and increase taxes on France's biggest companies to 35% – securing bragging rights as levying the world's third-highest corporate taxes, the US being #1. This all on top of a 25% VAT, one of the world's highest. By some calculations, the result of Hollande's new taxes is that effectively 100% of all incomes over one million euros will now be stripped away by the state.

For good measure, Hollande also promised to reverse the recent modest increase in retirement age from 60 to 62 pushed through by Sarkozy. While I am sure it is mere coincidence, I found it noteworthy that Mssr. Hollande's campaign slogan is "Change – Now!"

Remarkably, at least for those with some small understanding of economics, as a result of leaning into the microphone with these proposals Hollande has galloped ahead of all other potential contenders and is now projected to finish nose by nose with Sarkozy.

After which the also-rans will be removed from the race, freeing their supporters to share their affections elsewhere. Given that the leading contender for third place with an estimated 14% of the vote is one Jean-Luc Mélenchon – charitably categorized as "far left", a label that can be applied to most of the other candidates – it is projected that the "conservative" Mssr. Sarkozy will go down in double-digit flames come May 6.

Bringing to mind the prophetic utterance of Louis XV: "Après moi, le déluge."

The deluge in Louis' case manifested as the murderous affair commonly known as the French Revolution. In the case of Mssr. Hollande taking up residence in the Palais de l'Élysée, the deluge is likely to manifest in the form of rising interest rates as investors look to protect against an acceleration in the country's debt to GDP ratio, already projected to hit almost 90% this year, exacerbated by a flight of capital, investors, entrepreneurs and large businesses.

As is the nature of such things, because of the aforementioned predilection of humans to run from trouble, we likely won't have to wait for Mssr. Hollande to be formally enshrined in the gilded halls for the trouble to start – it will begin within days and maybe even minutes of the handicappers concluding that his ascendency is a sure thing.

Given that France is the third-largest economy in the already-troubled Eurozone, one can expect the deluge to spread, with potentially devastating consequences. That the guillotines may soon be rolled out across Europe can be better understood by taking into account that the Eurozone sovereign deadbeats are on the hook for roughly nine trillion euros in debt, some significant percentage of which has to be rolled over to ready buyers over the next couple of years. Adding weight to the problem is that, according to the latest figures out of the IMF, Europe's banks may have to sell off up to 3.8 trillion euros in assets, many of them questionable, between now and the end of next year. At least, if they want to remain solvent.

Across the pond, the United States also has aggressive funding needs, given that the "change" we experienced ourselves in the last presidential election has left the government gasping for about $1.4 trillion in additional funding each year. Then there is Japan, officially the world's largest debtor in terms of debt to GDP, where the easy availability of local funding has dried up, requiring that nation to go to the international markets for funding as well.

The phrase "an awful lot of hogs at the trough" comes to mind.

My point is not just that these governments are broke and are about to get a lot more broke as interest rates rise on their many debts and financings, but rather that the global trend toward a resurgence in public demand for socialism in response to a worsening crisis is a certainty.

How could it be otherwise when for decades now the schooling of children has been delegated to functionaries of the state?

For evidence, look no further than the screen swipe here. It is a quote from an essay by a college student in the United States on role the government should play:

The writer of those words was a member of a Valencia University economics class. The professor, Jack Chandliss, asked the class to write an essay on what the American dream means to them, and what they want the federal government to do to help them achieve that dream. Out of 180 students participating, only about 10% wanted the government to leave them alone and not tax them too much, but a whopping 80% wanted the government to provide pretty much the whole dream thing wrapped in a tidy bow – including free college tuition and health care, jobs, even the down payment on their future homes, money for retirement and hard cash, taken in the form of taxes from rich people. Please take a moment to watch a worthwhile interview with the professor.

Pretty eye-opening, eh?

The point here is not complex, but it is important.

With the apparatus of state education over many years serving to bamboozle the populace into the hardened belief that government has a positive role to play in virtually all aspects of modern life, it should come to no surprise to anyone that, when push comes to shove, people are now trained to look to government to solve the problems – even when it was the government that created the problems in the first place.

Thus, confronted with the intractable mess they have made, these governments have to keep alive the mythology they have created about their omnipotence. Which is easier said than done, because with things now swirling fairly quickly around the drain, the mob is beginning to lose faith – and even patience.

Which puts these governments in a very tight spot, because the only way they can actually fix things is by doing exactly the opposite of what people have come to expect from their governments, which is always to do more. Put simply, the only hope now is that these governments begin to reduce their roles in their respective economies, and dramatically so. Concurrently, they have to encourage people in their aspirations to greater wealth, by lowering their taxes and unwinding the tangle of regulations they have created over the last half-century.

But if the governments actually tried to take these actions, the brainwashed masses would be positively befuddled then outraged, as it goes against everything they have been taught. Why, it would be like the Pope shuffling his way to the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica and informing the doting faithful that there isn't a god and never has been.

Riots would follow.

So it is that we find ourselves at a particularly interesting juncture in the historical record.

On the one hand you have a majority of the world's population who have been carefully schooled into believing that the institution of government holds the solution to all problems and is the source of succor to all who need it. (Even that subset of the populace who has lost confidence in their current government invariably believes as doctrine that the next and better government can change things for the better and lead the way to the shining castle on the hill.)

In this mix are the politicians and their functionaries, 99.99% of whom believe that, if for no other reason than their re-election prospects, they have to do something to meet the demands of the public.

Of course, under normal circumstances the "something" usually consists of making grand-sounding speeches and otherwise blowing smoke. Today that's just not going to cut it, for the simple reason that the crisis is real, it is spinning out of control, and it's not going to go away unless and until the markets are allowed to breathe again.

Which brings us full circle to the simple truth that the brainwashed public won't stand idly by while the politicians lower taxes and regulations on the profit makers or cut back state pensions and guarantees or otherwise reduce any of the many services the state has taken on itself to provide.

"Between a rock and a hard place" is an inadequate phrase to describe the situation.

Meanwhile, the mob has started to gather, their dark mutterings heard by the politicos who quickly don the red caps themselves, the better to be viewed as one with the people and join in expressing outrage against the capitalists who have been selected as fall guys in this unfolding drama.

When confronted by reporters about the fact that his 75% tax on high-income owners would raise nowhere enough revenue to offset France's towering debt and social obligations, Mssr. Hollande was heard to respond:

"It's not a question of return. It's a question of morality."

When coercion and theft are considered moral, anything is possible, and none of it good.

While I certainly can't say how this is all going to end, I'm pretty sure it's not going to end well.

 

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Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:03 | 2399243 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

Shows how fucking naive the younger generation is which is perpetuated by inbred fuckers in the USSA. WTF. People in the USSA whould not have fucking kids, they are stupid to begin with and breeding leaches.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:08 | 2399253 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

And you prove that?

I still prefer to cling to my "guns and religion"

Only because mine is in fact bigger than yours.

Yours does not produce a fucking single, not one, fucking example of success.

Fail almighty is not my God.

Fuck you, and goodnight.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:48 | 2399326 markmotive
markmotive's picture

When the total collapse comes you better hold some physical gold...and some food and guns.

http://www.planbeconomics.com/2012/05/05/total-collapse-and-gold-2/

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:05 | 2399760 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

God, guns, and gold - three proven antidotes to tyranny over the entire course of recorded history.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:01 | 2399847 Father Lucifer
Father Lucifer's picture

Amen

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:20 | 2399891 ali-ali-al-qomfri
ali-ali-al-qomfri's picture

we can all relate........

Atheist, Accu-Tech & Au

Baha'i, Binelli & Bars

Buddhism, Berreta & Bullion

Confucianism, Colt & Coins

Hinduism, Krishna, Kalashnikov & Karats

Islam, Ithaca & Ingots

Sikhism, Sig & Silver

Taoism, Taurus & Tin

Wicca, Whetherby & Water

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:55 | 2399947 o2sd
o2sd's picture

Yeah, because no one in history has ever fled religious tyranny .... :|

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:49 | 2399330 Manthong
Manthong's picture

"How could it be otherwise when for decades now the schooling of children has been delegated to functionaries of the state?"

Buckle up.. It will take one hell of a spanking before they figure out what has been done to them.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:08 | 2399859 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

If this thing goes down hard, there will be millions of folks, most of them under the age of 40, wandering glassy-eyed through the vacant malls, their i-Crap gadgets blank-screened.   Somehow I don't pity them.  Does that make me a bad person?   Nah.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:58 | 2399954 o2sd
o2sd's picture

In the end, when the productive have been bled dry, the common people clamour for Communism. Of course, they won't call it Communism, but that's what it will be.

When you disenfranchise the majority economically, their only recourse is political power. The sad reality is that this only makes things worse for them in the long run, but they have to learn that the hard way.

 

Sun, 05/06/2012 - 19:50 | 2401998 CPL
CPL's picture

It's part of the reason Russia collapsed so spectacularly.  Technology creep.

 

People think it was some naturalized, organized collapse.  it wasn't, people starved, died from a lack of heating oil, old vendetta's came out of nowhere, now the closest thing that Russia has to organization is their crime syndicates which are mostly old party members.  It's about as close to the wild west as anywhere on the planet now. 

 

Highest death rate between the ages of 15-25 in any "western" culture, drink themselves to death.  then there is this type of shit.

 

rt.com/news/prime-time/codeine-drug-law-russia-845/

 

Krocodile.  Shit eats you inside out.  I'm not a big fan of RT, but they certainly don't hold back if describing the 40-50 problems happening in Russia right now.  Huge AIDS problem that goes ignored, raging alcoholism, serious housing issues, infrastructure problems...Christ the only people on the planet with older nuke plants than the USA and nobody seems to be paying much attention to them.

 

Wait for all this to go boom in a Ponzi explosion, it's going to be awful.

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 14:34 | 2399616 StavropolJames
StavropolJames's picture

The antithesis to American dependence on government can be found in present day Russia. Russians expect little from their government and have thus become incredibly independent.

Western perception of Russian is woefully behind the times, rooted in the cold war years. Just like all the other countries in the world that don't play the game according to American rules, like Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan and Iran, Russia is designated as an enemy that has to be dealt with.

If you ask Russians what role the government should play in their lives, you'd get a very different answer and that's the real reason why Russia is the bad guy.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 15:56 | 2399743 Tsunami Wave
Tsunami Wave's picture

I was a student of Jack chambless' microeconomics class I took at Valencia years ago. He is a very smart and capable professor, and he challenged us all to think for ourselves. It's because of him that let go of the beliefs I had in Econ years ago, and adopted a more classical liberal/libertarian perspective.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:09 | 2399257 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

I am Jobe

Are you Julias dad?

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:10 | 2399259 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Paying the wosrt people who can't take care of themselves to have children that they won't take of is insanity.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:12 | 2399270 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

I've heard speakers of Ebonics make clearer statements than that.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:15 | 2399275 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

CrockettAlmanac.com

You white people making with the funny.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:34 | 2399296 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Hey!, Dat's Raaayciss

I had no chance to edit before I was pounced upon.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:35 | 2399304 evolutionx
evolutionx's picture
APRES NOUS LE DELUGE

A deluge of an unprecedented magnitude is both inevitable and imminent. The consequences of the economic and political mismanagement will have a devastating impact on the world for a very long time. And the consequences will touch most corners of the world in so many different areas; economic, financial, social, political and geopolitical.

 

http://www.mmnews.de/index.php/english-news/7423-apres-nous-le-deluge

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:07 | 2399761 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Well, the Gods of the Copybook Headings are never denied for too long.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:41 | 2399321 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Don't worry...

Nowadays it's not important anymore whether something makes sense or not... It only makes any headlines if it even remotely sounds rayciss or anti-semitic... I think they've programmed & implanted rayciss & anti-semitic algos to scrub the internet 24/7 to keep people pinned down from having the courage to point out hypocrisy...

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:03 | 2399456 CH1
CH1's picture

Dude, if you can't point out hypocrisy without condemning the Jews at every step, the problem is you.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:21 | 2399483 smb12321
smb12321's picture

His type is truly obsessed with Jews.  No matter the subject - 911. politics, finance, art, movies, history - they ALWAYS manage to work the evil Jew into the conversation.  They can give URLs to countless You Tube videos (like that's proof of something) or go on for hours with talesof global intrigue, secret deals, financial control until you wanna yell, "Go out and get laid for Christ sake and clear your mind."

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 15:18 | 2399684 frenzic
frenzic's picture

CH1 : Well put.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 15:37 | 2399712 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Who the fuck said anything about Jews?... Here was my comment...

~~~

"Nowadays it's not important anymore whether something makes sense or not... It only makes any headlines if it even remotely sounds rayciss or anti-semitic... I think they've programmed & implanted rayciss & anti-semitic algos to scrub the internet 24/7 to keep people pinned down from having the courage to point out hypocrisy..."

Where was "Jew" in there?... The hypocrisy I'm talking about has to do with liberal MSM (& the seemingly insatiable effort to make headlines & issues out of things that in ordinary life never even come to the surface)... Most of the fucking people I know are pretty normal... But as I browse the internet or read headlines, every other story is about the Kardashians... Racism & Anti-Semitism are similar hot button topics... They're there to PROVOKE (& therefore make money for the publishers)...

I'm just sick of seeing (everytime I try to access the information superhighway):

- Anti Semitism stories

- Racist stories

- Kardashian stories

Mostly, that's why I come to Zero Hedge (because for the large part, I can balance out the syrupy/cavity inducing shit that I'd otherwise be exposed to with some information that is impermeable to that form of hypnosis)...

That is, until TODAY, when I have to read a bunch of bullshit like what you have to offer...

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:40 | 2399816 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

I blame everything on OJ Simpson.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:02 | 2399849 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Francis, don't let a couple fools kill your joy.

In their minds they know it is all about political correctness but feel justified to use it in order to "get even" and "get mine"; the same mentality as those using Trayvon to justify their revenge attacks. It simply helps them feel they have the high moral ground and eases their anxiety about the coming end of handouts.

I miss cheeky bastard and other past ZH posters and lament they have been displaced by those progressive types.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:12 | 2399871 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Yup.  Ole Cheeky could rip folks a new one, given the opportunity.   Would that I had his skills....

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 18:09 | 2399965 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Trust me... These are a55holes who probably followed me over here from another blog... & here's how the story goes...

~~~

- You make an attempt, on a public blog, to even out the playing field based on the 24/7 rhetoric you hear on MSM (& how it annoys you)...

- The patrons of that blog are so fucking stupid, they have no capacity to think of the world in other terms than that of coke or pepsi...

- They go so far as to make life miserable for you at the aforementioned blog...

- So you finally say, "Hey ~ I don't need this, I might as well be talking to a wall of gangsters"... You finally stumble across a blog like ZH that most people generally mix it up on equal terms...

- You leave the other blog forever, & just post at ZH... (which should, in theory, make those people happy that wanted you to leave their faux intellectual debating society ~ they, in fact, REQUESTED you to do so)...

- after a period of time they get bored talking to each other and watching the paint fucking dry...

- They chase you all the fucking way over here to engage you, strawman like, on any of the most remotely similar issues, that ruffled their feathers on their home turf...

~~~

There are some pathetic fucks out there...

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 18:48 | 2400031 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Don't worry about it.   Those who can't cut it won't last long here at ZH.  Only the strong will survive.  I've seen quite a few get cut to shreds and just slink away.  Of course, there are the really stupid, as you say.   We make piñatas out of those -- it's fun.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 19:00 | 2400050 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

They can seek shelter & comfort with fat ass Barry Ritholtz...

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 22:47 | 2400266 Kayman
Kayman's picture

francis_sawyer

Chin up. Never argue with an Idiot.

Sun, 05/06/2012 - 10:02 | 2400581 smb12321
smb12321's picture

I've been called many things - godless, libertarian, rightwing, capitalist - but never progressive.  My missive about Jews concerned the uncomfortable realization that many ZH posters are here (in part) because they share a strange antisemitism.  I know, I know - it's Zionism, not Judaism.  And they all have best friends that are Jews.  LOL

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:44 | 2399422 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Paying the wosrt people who can't take care of themselves to have children that they won't take of is insanity.

Thats why Socialism does NOT work.No one should get paid for being a baby mill...................that is on public assistance, and capable of WORKING.

.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 18:31 | 2400015 robobbob
robobbob's picture

seeing as how big statists, marxists and leftists in general just adore ideas like eugenics and evolution, it kind of makes you wonder just what they are up to subsidizing reverse evolution......

we are devo?

Sun, 05/06/2012 - 15:08 | 2401250 Umh
Umh's picture

It will make their product seem like a good idea.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:19 | 2399388 chunga
chunga's picture

"Shows how fucking naive the younger generation is"

Not all of them are as you say. I know plenty of dopes who are older but not any wiser.

I sat around at a picnic last weekend and listened to a crowd of them declare with a bunch of fist-pumping that we should bomb away the entire middle-east.

Out of curiosity I asked them to collectively name these countries that need to be bombed away and the names of the leaders of those countries.

They all agreed "it doesn't matter" (they had no idea) and gulped down some more beer. At least half of them were either on "disability" and/or collecting a state pension.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:45 | 2399424 Jena
Jena's picture

Based on a few similar conversations of my own, I bet the line "That'll show 'em!" was uttered by someone at least once.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:03 | 2399458 chunga
chunga's picture

LOL

Oh yeah. My personal belief (plucked right from an illuminati ghost story) is that America's Shock Doctrine schedule might need to be accelerated.

A lot of these new recruits have had internet and access to "alternative" media for a long time.

These kids aren't so stupid and indoctrination might not be so easy.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:13 | 2399874 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Bring back the draft and they'll be whistling outta the other side of their asses.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:15 | 2399882 chunga
chunga's picture

I don't understand what you mean Rocky.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 18:50 | 2400033 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Ooops.  I was replying to your previous post 2399388

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:58 | 2399448 smb12321
smb12321's picture

I would nominate you as the prime example of "people should not have kids."  With your degree of intellectual failure it's a wonder you can still function much less post garbage on a blog.   Have a nice day

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 14:48 | 2399638 goforgin
goforgin's picture

Ok, you got my vote to head abortion clinics in Idaho.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 15:50 | 2399732 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

the sheeple are getting precisely what they deserve. i have little empathy for said sheeple. but for my FC members, you know the rules......

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:04 | 2399245 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

http://www.finemrespice.com/

The circle of life.

It is what it is.

Deal with it?

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:15 | 2399250 walcott
walcott's picture

 

if history has taught one certain lesson, it is that the less fettered an economy, the better humankind is able to do what it does best: run from trouble and run toward opportunity. In this way mistakes are quickly resolved and progress assured.

 

Conversely, the deeper the muck of regulation, mandates, taxes, subsidies and other bureaucratic meddling, the slower we humans are in following our natural instincts until the point that progress is slowed or even stopped.

 

excellent.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:17 | 2399277 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

walcott

"Conversely, the deeper the muck of regulation, mandates, taxes, subsidies and other bureaucratic meddling, the slower we humans are in following our natural instincts until the point that progress is slowed or even stopped."

I'm sorry but regulation is a good thing. The problem is lack of enforcement of regulations.



Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:45 | 2399325 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

The regulations are enforced by those who own the government. They set the standards and call the shots. That's why regulation always favors those who are already entrenched in power. It's not a coincidence. But you just keep looking for a nice dictator who will treat you kindly while smacking down those bad rich people who fill his coffers.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:50 | 2399335 Apply Force
Apply Force's picture

Maybe SOME regulation can be a good thing... As in "Regulators, mount up!" when something really bad has happened - regulating the water volume of my toilet or little kids selling lemonade on the sidewalk... not so much.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:13 | 2399376 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Apply Force

Ever buy a part for home or auto repair? They are standard due to regulations.

Unlike the ones from China which may be a fraction off. Enough to make it useless.

Food regulations are good too. You don't want the kids eating a Mad Cow burger with a creamy Brucellosis tinged glass of milk.

Yummy.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:29 | 2399405 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

The market is more than capable of establishing standards for manufacture and food quality. We don't need a regulation that obscures from oversight as much as it demands- based on the corporations that wrote it.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:47 | 2399525 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The market is more than capable of establishing standards for manufacture and food quality.

_____________________________________________________

How? Demand for food is permanent. It relies on no standard to exist. Mud pies would not be produced by the market?

Or is the market answer that mud pies suit the people who eat them?

So how? When? Where? Usual questions for US citizen fantasists.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:59 | 2399549 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Demand for quality food is permanent. Demand for quality goods is permanent. In an environment where people are not mislead by government "standards", the market will sort out the losers and winners. Hard for a chinese citizenism to understand, I know, but if you were ever to have the chance- you would do just find.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 15:51 | 2399734 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

And?

Demand for quality food is permanent and?

It does not mean that quality food price can not be lowered by selling low quality food.

As to the point about losers and winners, it is connected to my point that people who eat low quality food eat what they deserve?

You did not answer to the point. And you seem to confirm the point that whatever happens, if the market drives, it will be good.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 15:58 | 2399746 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

More Chinese citizenism fallacy of unedulcorated demand.

More Chinese citizenism crackpottery.

Lameness it being of very much now is.

Time for Chinese citizenism citizen to place blame on fantasy of US citizenism again.

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 18:09 | 2399974 o2sd
o2sd's picture

The market is more than capable of establishing standards for manufacture and food quality.

Only in hindsight. If a restaurant kills 3 people with salmonella poisoning, the market will certainly ensure that the restaurant goes out of business, but that's not much help for those who died.

Regulation exists as a reminder to providers of goods and services, that there are consequences of recklessness and negligence, in the hope that the threat of the stick will correct their behaviour BEFORE they kill someone. The market only punishes recklessness and negligence AFTER the fact.

We don't need a regulation that obscures from oversight as much as it demands- based on the corporations that wrote it.

It's true. We don't need that kind of regulation, however we should probably accept that the system will be corrupted eventually and will need to be purged at some point. This doesn't mean we should throw away the whole system though, just that systems tend to decay, and need to be refreshed occaisionally (sometimes with the blood of patriots).

 

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 19:45 | 2400094 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Yeah, nobody EVER suffers from salmonella poisoning or mad cow disease. All those drugs that kill you are punished AFTER The fact. Sticking gas pedals? Thousands of examples of things that get through the regulation net and are resolved after the fect. Wake up.

Sun, 05/06/2012 - 08:02 | 2400495 o2sd
o2sd's picture

I'm going to take a wild guess you have never lived in Hong Kong. You should go there, you would like it. No pesky government interference in people's right to give other people food poisoning. Clogged sewers because the market has decided it doesn't want to pay for sewers, so it doesn't. They whine when SARS kills people and hospitalises them, but hey, the market has spoken.

It's amazing they even bother with traffic lights. I mean, traffic lights are pernicious government interference in the right to drive without stopping right? Surely the market will come up with a solution for that pesky interference on the roads.

And while we are abolishing government laws and regulations all together, why do we bother with the police? If every one was armed, and trained in the use of firearms there would be no need for the police. I amazed it's never been tried before. Oh wait, it has, it's called feudalism, a system under which you wouldn't survive out the year.

Wait, I think you are on to something.

Sun, 05/06/2012 - 14:49 | 2401179 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Let me guess: you are shown to be terribly wrong and you change the topic thinking it will exonerate your previous post? 

Now, no I haven't lived in Hong Kong. However, let's assume I have the freedom to choose. Would I live there? Depends on what the environment is like. 

Are people in communities capable of paying for and maintaining a sewer system? Traffic lights? Buying private security? Why yes they are. There is zero need for a government to create these products and sell them in a free market. If these items are important to me, I can choose the community I want to be a part of and buy into the market structure.

The absence of government is only chaotic if you choose to let it be so. Communities can define the type of social structure they deem desirable and pay VOLUNTARILY for the services they wish to purchase. 

Believe it or not, traffic laws in the US were created by private organizations, signs, rules and all (AAA). The people saw the benefit of organizing a system of rules and did so, without government. 

It appears you want others to subsidize your vision of civilization- this is theft.

As for feudalism, the police power of the state was alive and well. Do you read history and understand terms?

Mon, 05/07/2012 - 08:19 | 2402906 o2sd
o2sd's picture

Let me guess: you are shown to be terribly wrong and you change the topic thinking it will exonerate your previous post? 

No, but I see you missed the point. Not surprising, you come off as a naive zealot.

Now, no I haven't lived in Hong Kong.

You should have just stopped there. Everything else you say is coming from your fantasy world.

However, let's assume I have the freedom to choose. Would I live there? Depends on what the environment is like. 

The environment is exactly what happens when you apply your philosophy to society, it's a shit hole. It's a free, laissez faire, non-government interfering, free market shit hole. That's why I suggest you live there, so you can experience your philosophy first hand rather than fantasize about it on the internet.

Communities can define the type of social structure they deem desirable and pay VOLUNTARILY for the services they wish to purchase. 

Anything is possible. Do you have a reference point for one of these communities?

Believe it or not, traffic laws in the US were created by private organizations, signs, rules and all (AAA). The people saw the benefit of organizing a system of rules and did so, without government

Who enforces the rules?

It appears you want others to subsidize your vision of civilization- this is theft.

Getting robbed is also theft. But by all means, stop your yapping and get on with it. Create your perfect Randian society. You obviously know how utopia works, so what do you need me for?

As for feudalism, the police power of the state was alive and well. Do you read history and understand terms?

Oh good lord you are an idiot.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:55 | 2399444 Apply Force
Apply Force's picture

I think you are confusing industry regulations with government regulations.  The government should not be the end enforcer - discernment should.  In what industry is it wise to sell non-working parts, or food that sickens the end user...?  How do they continue on in business?  GM remains through the will/enforcement of .gov, not through bringing useful products to market at a profitable price.

You do present a solid argument against globilization, however.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:53 | 2399534 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

In what industry is it wise to sell food that sickens the end user...?

____________________________________________

In any kind of food industry actually.

What is wise? What does it mean?

Consumers do not share the best interests. Producers' best interest can go against consumers' best interests.

People choose not to eat?

Take a cow. If selling unproper bits allows some consumers to eat good meat at a lower price, why should those consumers support that butcher over one that reject selling unproper parts?
In the end, it will consumers vs consumers. Everyone has to eat, and if feeding the poorer with shit food allows to decrease the price of food for richer consumers, why should rich consumers not support that butcher?

Is the world infinite so that means do exist infinitively that concurrence can rise any time?

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 14:02 | 2399556 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Yeah, you guys kept that melamine feed around. No one protested that...or the baby formula? How about that school that collapsed from shody workmanship? Do you have a memory or are you just contrary?

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 15:54 | 2399740 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Again China? I begin to think that if China did not exist, US citizens on this site will invent it so they can kick the can on it.

The best is that Chinese worked on order of german corporations for the food stuff.

But hey, everything to avoid being challenged in one's dogma.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:03 | 2399753 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

But hey, everything to avoid being challenged in one's dogma.

In Chinese citizenism, everything to avoid being challenged in eatings one's dog.

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 18:16 | 2399984 o2sd
o2sd's picture

In what industry is it wise to sell non-working parts, or food that sickens the end user...? 

In the short term, all of them, because of the increase in profits. In the long term of course, none of them, because the market (if unfettered by corruption) will reward those that do not engage in the above, and punish those that do.

The problem, which so many free market proponents seem to miss, is that intervening period between the increased profits and the market's response. It's THAT intervening period that government regulation is supposed to address, because a large enough corporation can make thousands of people sick, or cause millions of dollars in damage through faulty parts.

 

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 15:58 | 2399748 Pygar
Pygar's picture

And we all know that only people who get a government check have the magical superhuman ability to "regulate" things like food safety or standards for machine or plumbing parts. We know this because they do such a great fucking job of it currently, and because private organizations like ANSI, UL, NSPE, etc., are all a fucking figment of our collective imaginations.

Jesus, do you government-supremacist extremist fanatics even notice that what you believe directly contradicts reality?

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:56 | 2399840 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Where have you been hiding +1000

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 18:24 | 2400000 o2sd
o2sd's picture

Your claim amounts to "Government organisations are incompetent and corrupt, private organisations are impervious to incompetence and corruption." Having spent the majority of my life working in private organisations, I can tell you that assertion is patently false.

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 18:46 | 2400029 robobbob
robobbob's picture

hello

eli whitney?

standardized parts developed wwwaaay before government regulations. why? because it made economic sense.

the same reason why the first mad cow lawsuit would wipe out the offending company. except in the captured regulator system that exists now, such a lawsuit could never happen, because the regulators shield offenders who have paid the proper tributes. MF Global, Countrywide?

another victim of gobmint edumacation

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 22:54 | 2400276 Kayman
Kayman's picture

So Gully.. ever buy food "made in China" ?  Under whose regulations did it get into this country ?

Some regulations are necessary, but most regulations are selectly enforced by government minions.

Any criminals on Wall Steet been charged and convicted in the largest fraud in History ?  I thought not.

Sun, 05/06/2012 - 15:15 | 2401269 Umh
Umh's picture

These parts you are speaking of; where do you get the ones that are regulated, because The ones they sell in my town won't fit my house. When this house was made things were a lot sturdier.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:59 | 2399350 donsluck
donsluck's picture

There is no preventing the Dao. It is balance. The world is not black and white. Balance.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 14:34 | 2399611 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Shades of gray...

~//~

Grateful Dead Touch Of Grey Video (Band In Bones)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmT6udys8Tc (4:43)

Grateful Dead - Touch of Grey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOaXTg3nAuY (5:49)

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:59 | 2399449 DosZap
DosZap's picture

 The problem is lack of enforcement of regulations.

Agree To a point................BUT.

Your Assuming those regs are good and neccesssary right?,and are regulated by decent and honest individuals.

As we have seen, now its not possible, as everyone is simply out for control, and themselves bank staements.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:05 | 2399462 smb12321
smb12321's picture

COMMON SENSE regulation is "good".   Nobody wants dirty water, unsafe food or hazardous materials around.   But DC, following custom, must try to regulate away any chance of possible danger or accident and debolves into insanity.  Such as measuring the holes in Swiss cheese to assure they "quality?" (I kid you not). 

Then you start down the black hole of light bulbs (for energy), toilets (to "save" water - what hogwash), "safety glass" on TOP of house (so that someone won't fall through) or EPA particulates so minute they can scarcely be measured.  Then again, when is the last time DC bureaucrats showed common sense.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:22 | 2399893 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I was against the GFCI (ground-fault circuit interrupt) receptacle when it was introduced back in the 70s.  If a doofus wants to get out in the yard in a rainstorm with his electric weed eater and its frayed cord -- let him.  He deserves to be fried.   Setting the hair dryer next to the tub is a great idea -- for some folk.   We should praise the stupid people; without them, how would you know you're smart?  We gotta have standards.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 18:29 | 2400010 o2sd
o2sd's picture

When a stupid person removes themselves from the gene pool, the whole of humanity benefits.We honour them post-humously with a Darwin award. You are right though, they need greater recognition for their contribution.

We still need some stupid people though, to clean the toilets and whatnot. At least until the Japanese invent a robot to do that.

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:08 | 2399366 Hohum
Hohum's picture

Not excellent, walcott, but rather an unsupported assertion.  Liking a less fettered economy is great but thinking it brings out the best in humans is, well, optimistic.  But your taxes will be lower with an unfettered economy and you'll feel less agitated. Isn't that what Casey Research is all about?

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:55 | 2399445 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

the less fettered, ie. freer an economy or country, the greater the econmoic growth which in turn leads to a greater parasitical class, top and low level parasites

so the irony is, in designing a 'free' country, you always end up with the most repressive government

america is like it is today because it was free

the only escape is to leave statism altogether

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:08 | 2399251 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Central planning has trumped individual rights and, as a result, will destroy long-term world economic growth. This discussion is not complete without speaking about China...

The Chinese dictators are working with the U.S. and allowing economic growth because they need the U.S. relationship; if that dims, then the totalitarian hammer will strike again in China. The reason: there is no guarantee the people of China are the Chinese government. Contrary to the prognostications of some world economists, China will not lead the world in economic opportunity and growth.

The strength of America centered around two words – inalienable rights. That’s what’s different between China and the America that created the American Dream. There can be no Chinese Dream or a continuation of the American Dream without inalienable rights.

Neither Chinese nor American government-metered opportunity, with universities engaged primarily in the business of "marketing social status," affords the freedom to seek the Constitution's God-given rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness that allow individuals to choose exactly how they will undertake anything they wish to do in this life, provided the rights of all others to do the same thing are protected.

The idea behind the American government and the U.S. Constitution was as Jefferson said, rights given by the Creator.  In all other major governments throughout history, the Government gave out the rights. The protections of all the provisions in the Constitution and Bill of Rights relate to these God-given inalienable rights.  Ours was a contract society, protected because of those rights.

If you want to know what’s going to happen to China in the future you can observe what is happening to the U.S. today.  The removal of our rights is beginning to hamper U.S. growth.  Those same restrictions eventually are going to shut China down because the rights of individuals will interfere with what the rulers want.

The United States’ manufacturing base and the inventions and the sales…and all those things our multinational corporations gave China are nothing compared with giving up what made those things, i.e., the protection of man’s inalienable rights so that individuals could invent and grow on their own without their property and efforts being taken by government at a certain point.  To give that up -- and China never had it -- means China doesn’t have a chance to grow like our Founder’s America that birthed  the American Dream, and its miraculous economic growth.

China is not a free country. There’s an example currently playing out in the world arena regarding Chinese freedom – that of blind dissident Chen Guangcheng who’s been 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:14 | 2399267 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

AssFire

"The strength of America centered around two words – inalienable rights"

Unless you were Black, a Woman, A Native American, Irish, a Child or and Indentured servant. I forgot Poor and Working Class.

Really, you either don't comprehend US History or are merely full of shit.


Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:14 | 2399273 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

And yet my Irish ancestors came to America where they sought and found a better life for themselves and their progeny.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:21 | 2399282 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

CrockettAlmanac.com

Gee bunky, I guess you didn't know about the Irish and Scots sold into slavery.

http://giftofireland.com/blog/2012/02/13/irish-slaves/

http://www.trisranch.com/id82.html


The Irish Slave Trade - The Forgotten “White” Slaves

And you can skim through this for a discussion of

http://forums.civfanatics.com/archive/index.php/t-76596.html

Why were the Irish treated so badly during the 1800s in America?

 

( I guess that puts you on par with the Blacks in the US)

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:37 | 2399309 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Once my great-great-great grandfather escaped English tyranny in his native land he lived life as a free man in America. I guess you didn't know that.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:04 | 2399357 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

CrockettAlmanac.com

OOOOHHHH, how lucky he was.

Meanwhile hundreds of thousands, if not millions, were not.


Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:30 | 2399455 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Can you ever forgive Gramps for making it in the world without giving excuses? I realize that it's an unattractive quality but he was only human.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:57 | 2399545 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Can you ever forgive Gramps for making it in the world without giving excuses?

___________________________________

Today US citizens might wish to apply the same, not seeking excuses in government stuff.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:06 | 2399360 toady
toady's picture

Where are MY reparations?

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:01 | 2399354 donsluck
donsluck's picture

They were starving because of the famous Potato Famine.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:05 | 2399463 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

The Irish produced enough food to feed the population three times over but the absentee British "landlords" stole most of it and let the people starve. It was all legal and well regulated, to be sure, nevertheless...

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:26 | 2399489 smb12321
smb12321's picture

People like him are ignorant.  I tutored emmigrants from other countries.  Almost all went to work immediately, saved their money and ignore the claptrap of group politics.  My relatives were Dutch, English and Indian (NA - real, not like Warren in MS) and I learned early one that if you have a job and are reasonably well off, normal people will like you.   

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:56 | 2399543 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

And yet my Irish ancestors came to America where they sought and found a better life for themselves and their progeny.
___________________________________________

So it is a counter example that the respect of unalienable rights was the key, is it not?

And so, once again, US citizens wallow in their cheap propaganda and fantasy.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:17 | 2399280 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Oh crap, the unproductive beneficiaries of central planning are on the loose today... OWS trolls. I said nothing above about minorities; but grind that axe.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:27 | 2399286 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

AssFire

You said that the strength of the US was based on 'Inalienable rights".

Where the fuck did you think that line of reasoning was headed?

What, just laughing jovial rich white men had "inalienable rights"?

And, I noticed you missed the parts regarding women, children, poor and working class folks.

I'm gonna assume you have some type of disability which prohibits you from thinking clearly.

Otherwise that makes you just plain damn stupid.



Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:34 | 2399301 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Not today Gully I got stuff to do.

Just saying we are losing the foundations in this country; believe me I know they are almost gone.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:06 | 2399359 donsluck
donsluck's picture

I agree with you in spirit, but in fact your dissenters are correct. It was a noble theory this country of ours, but the roots were diseased and had to be cured with the Bill of Rights. Now those are gone and we will slowly descend.

Your harping (repeatedly) on these "foundations" reveals you as a fundamentalist, and therefor blind to the reality around you. I'm sorry, blind is too strong, maybe just angry is more accurate.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 14:22 | 2399379 AssFire
AssFire's picture

I suggest as I often have: The "foundation" was there before the War of Northern Agression whereby states who chose to leave and keep their rights intact were forced to remain in a union that gave the Federal government too much power that has now become overbearing...

The federal budget, amounting to $63 million in 1860, rose to well over $1 billion by 1865. At war’s end the federal bureaucracy, with 53,000 employees including new Custom House officials, internal revenue agents, clerks, and inspectors, was the largest employer in the nation.

The Union victory in the War Between the States had the effect of (1) enslaving everyone (North or South) to the consolidated Yankee Leviathan in Washington, (2) destroying the rights of the states and established the dominance of the central government, (3) destroying the spirit of the Constitution, (4) destroying the racial basis of American citizenship, (5) making the federal government the largest employer in America, (6) enthroning the corporation and (7) abolishing slavery to create BRA thereby creating "enitled groups" which had not previously existed.

The National Currency Acts of 1863 and 1864 created a system that would later form the blueprint for the Federal Reserve. The Acts created a system of Nationally Chartered Banks, and a 10% tax was placed, through those Acts, on all State Bank notes with the intent of completely driving State Banks out of business in order to create a federal monetary and banking monopoly governed and controlled by the federal government. By July of 1864, the Greenback Dollar was worth 35 cents gold…it was a disaster for the common man who had to deal with inflation during wartime. It was however, a boom for the government and for bankers who reaped the benefits of inflationism.

Remember the feds did it by forcing their own yankee citizens at gunpoint to come and kill, burn and basically became the terrorists that they claim to be at war with today.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:08 | 2399367 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

And yet, if those "regulations" you think are so good had been followed- concerning inalienable rights, those groups would have enjoyed their freedoms. 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:17 | 2399385 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Sean7k

Wow, the level of stupid in what you wrote is amazing.

Does someone feed you?

I can't imagine a person with your obvaious lack of intelligence having the ability to grab a freedom fry and shovel it between your drooling slackjawed lips

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:38 | 2399409 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Wow, the level of discernable intelligence in your response, coupled with your inability to respond to my assertion, yelled for effect is the trifecta of imbecility.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:58 | 2399548 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

the unproductive

__________________________________

Unproductive? Were slaves productive or not?

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:16 | 2399776 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

How are those Tibetan "patriotic volunteers" working out for you?

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 18:36 | 2400020 o2sd
o2sd's picture

More productive than they were under the British. Oh, did you forget that the Tibetans were basically slaves under British rule?

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 20:36 | 2400151 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

...and now they're slaves under Chinese citizenism rule.

Big improvement.

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:36 | 2399307 bahaar
bahaar's picture

True.  Except Black/ Native American/Irish or their equivalent, Woman, Child, Indentured servant have more rights in America than anywhere else in the world.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:04 | 2399358 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

bahaar

What the fuck! Are you drunk!?


Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:07 | 2399362 donsluck
donsluck's picture

No, he is correct, however twisted the reality. The USA is the best place to be a woman, for sure.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:20 | 2399390 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

donsluck

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennagoudreau/2011/11/01/the-best-and-worst-...

The Best And Worst Countries For Women

...

At the top of the list, Iceland is ranked No. 1 for the third consecutive year. It is the top-ranked nation in women’s educational attainment and political representation. As one of the first countries to give women the right to vote in 1915, Iceland currently has 43% female parliament members and has had a female head of state for 18 of the past 50 years. Current Prime Minister Johanna Sigurdardottir was appointed in 2009. With 81% of women in the workforce, Iceland also features one of the narrowest labor force participation gaps.

...

Nordic nations consistently rank at the top of the list. Norway (No. 2), Finland (No. 3), Sweden (No. 4) and Denmark (No. 7) have been featured in the top-10 every year since the report’s launch in 2006. All Nordic countries reached near 100% literacy for both sexes, feature near parity in all levels of education and return that investment in the workforce. The nations each have generous paid maternity and paternity leave policies. In Sweden, women are offered 480 days of maternity time.

At No. 17, the U.S. continues to improve in the rankings–up from No. 31 in 2009–but hasn’t yet climbed to a top-10 slot. Because GDP is not a factor in the index, countries are ranked based only on the equality of resource distribution rather than the amount of resources. Perhaps surprising to some, the Philippines (No. 8), Lesotho (No. 9) and South Africa (No. 14) beat out the wealthy nation.

The U.S. features low scores in women’s political representation, with just 17% of women in political clout positions and no female heads of state on record, and a continuing wage gap for similar work. The U.S. is ranked No. 68 in pay equality—despite laws in place to enforce equal pay for equal work. Zahidi says the wage disparity creates a significant downward pull on the nation’s standing.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:02 | 2399754 donsluck
donsluck's picture

I stand corrected.

Sun, 05/06/2012 - 08:35 | 2399820 BigJim
BigJim's picture

It looks to me like that ranking is determined by which countries are the best if you're a woman and in the top 1%.

Meanwhile, I wonder how many Lesotho woman would rather live in the US? And vice versa?

If we're only looking at subsections of women, how about we look at agoraphobic women? I'll bet they LOVE living in places that burqa-wearing is mandatory!

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:46 | 2399934 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

good post Gully, you beat me to it.

and just to add; Iceland's elected Prime Minister is lesbian, openly gay.

name me ONE other nationstate where a lesbian would be elected head of state.

the high literacy rate is a clue - there is respect for humans inherent in every person I've ever met from Iceland.

they also value community - and are a small enough "state" to tend to their own.

Bjork: Declare Independence


Declare independence!
Don't let them do that to you!
Declare independence!
Don't let them do that to you!

 

Start your own currency!
Make your own stamp
Protect your language

 

Make your own flag!

 

Raise your own flag!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igOWR_-BXJU

(video by Michael Gondry - amazing!!)

Sun, 05/06/2012 - 23:16 | 2402446 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

lol @ your downvotes, I can't believe how stupid these men are

Sun, 05/06/2012 - 23:17 | 2402445 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

why are you pontificating about where it is good to be a woman

you don't know shit

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:48 | 2399428 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Unless you were Black, a Woman, A Native American, Irish, a Child or and Indentured servant. I forgot Poor and Working Class.

I am positive that those situations have been WAY more than adequately handled.

To the EXTREME.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:21 | 2399283 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Are those your words assfire? They look really familiar, I just read them somewhere, I feel.

Anyways, all folks should read this:

http://www.civil-liberties.com/books/main.html

It's all quite clear.

ori

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:49 | 2399332 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Of course they are not my words.. I am a product of the public school system with just enough brains to remember the old America.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:41 | 2399415 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

That is a poor comback for plagiarism.

Write it or source it.

ori

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:07 | 2399466 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Oh regional you forgot the spam link I criticize when you criticized me.

spam

 Write it then spam it. Seems to fit you.

The China/Inalienable Rights piece came to me in an e-mail; get over it.

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:11 | 2399372 Hohum
Hohum's picture

AssFire,

Earth calling.  Growth as measured by GDP/total credit market debt has been in recession most of the past 40 years, at least in the West.  Central planning won't fix it, but why in the world do you think individual rights will?

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:24 | 2399397 AssFire
AssFire's picture

There are far reaching benefits to keep the government at bay if the agencies are left powerless, usurped by your rights.  We will dissolve as a nation and then we will see the results of the different philosophies (Texas vs the Coasts).

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:21 | 2399786 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

I believe you misunderstand what Assfire was trying to promote.  My take on his comments is that the twin pillors  of freedom and personal responsibility (no scrapgoating-look in the mirror first when you have a problem) is the basis of all success and indeed happiness.  Individuals, seeking their own best interests, are the engine which drive the world and every scientific and technologial achievement demonstate this truth.   Statists lack competence and ability and thus blame others for their plight and seek to impose their desires for more "stuff" through the state.   They thus create new "rights" (e.g. educational and medical subsidies) which are not functions of government.  These subsidies, like the FEDs price fixing of the value of the $ via interest rates, distort the economy and act like a friction on economic productivity.  Nearly the entire financial sector is a huge frictional drag on the economy enabled only through government bailouts and intervention.  We need a lot more creative destruction and failure of the incompetents, whether individuals or corporations.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:48 | 2399828 Hohum
Hohum's picture

That's fine, but it's not going to make GDP/total credit market debt positive.  I could be wrong, but the proponents of "freedom" haven't really fleshed out how glorious prosperity will occur to the benefit of most.  I can anticipate the response:  who cares about the incompetent fuckers?  It's a glib answer, and if some here feel that way they really ought to pull a Midas Mulligan and form a commune, without the communal rules of course.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:33 | 2399902 q99x2
q99x2's picture

The individual has the capacity to be moral.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:15 | 2399477 smb12321
smb12321's picture

Studies have concluded that the average Chinese IQ is slightly higher than the West.  But the catch...he Chinese view themselves as a collective, both currently and historically.  Thus, while the IQ is elevated, the bell curve is flattened.  There are many fewer "idiots" but also no small band of truly inventive geniuses in the sense of Edison, Einstein, Bell or Maxwell.   Many old Chinese "inventions" were accidental, not by the scientific method of trial and error.

Robert Reich said the greatest battle in the future will not be between socialism and capitalism (he considers that definitely settled) but between liberal, democratic capitalism and authoritarian capitalism.  I, too, doubt China's world role but for historical reasons - each time she has tried to operate beyond her borders, the will to venture vanishes.  Oh, and China still has 300 million living on less than a dollar a day.   

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 14:08 | 2399567 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Race_and_intelligence_(test_data)

I call bullshit.

These tests vary by culture and exposure to specific social education. The test originally tested for the ability to succeed in college. It is a narrow gauge of intelligence. 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:47 | 2399826 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 Thus, while the IQ is elevated, the bell curve is flattened.  There are many fewer "idiots" but also no small band of truly inventive geniuses

That would be the case if their bell curve were steeper, not flatter.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:08 | 2399252 brodix
brodix's picture

"Conversely, the deeper the muck of regulation, mandates, taxes, subsidies and other bureaucratic meddling, the slower we humans are in following our natural instincts until the point that progress is slowed or even stopped."

Well Gosh! Speedboats are more maneuverable than ocean liners. Whoda thunk it!

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:08 | 2399254 amadeusb4
amadeusb4's picture

"You can see this ignorance in the popular demand for even more, not less, meddling in the affairs of humankind." WTF?? I understand that this is a site about business and finance but why with this ideological screaching lately??? We should just let the vampire squid have its way and jeopardize the welfare of billions of people so that already wealthy individuals can become even wealthier?

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:17 | 2399278 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

The Vampire Squid thrives on regulation. If you'd pay closer attention to the ideological screeching you'd know that.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:27 | 2399292 amadeusb4
amadeusb4's picture

No, the vampire squid thrives on DEregulation, where this is not the removal of existing rules but rather the changing of them to their benefit. So more deregulation and this "free market" garbage = greater autonomy for the vampire squid. That's one of the reasons that Ron Paul is such a failure because he advocates the removal of government to the benefit of corporations and not the people. I'm all for dismantling the cage I'm in but there should be a plan for the lions that are salivating at me on the other side before I do so.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:47 | 2399319 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

No. If there had been deregulation then you or I could open an honest bank and compete with the Squid. But there was no deregulation. We are barred from entry to the market due to regulation.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:10 | 2399371 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Wrong-o Crockett. Just for kicks, get on your state website that lists State regs for banks (banks are regulated by the States). California has such a website, and you will see that 80% of banking regs have been rescinded.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:09 | 2399469 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

You're missing the point entirely. Suppose all the banking laws were rescinded except one and that one law said that JP Morgan owned all Americans. Would you consider that to be "deregulation?"

It's not the number of the laws that's important, it's the effect of those laws. The banks own the Fed and government regulations give the Fed a monopoly on the creation of money. The game is rigged at the highest levels in the most efficient way possible. You are owned. If there had been true deregulation you could not be owned unless you had voluntarily put yourself on the auction block.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:18 | 2399387 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

You are an idiot. What happened to Glass-Stegall?  Gone - deregulation moron.  What we have now is fascism.

I am all for 100 % deregulation, so long as you have 100% transparency.  Can't have it both ways fucknut.  Unless you prosecute fraud (know the difference between laws and regulation) the system is doomed.  What we have now is banks and paper-pushers buying the CONgress so they can commit any crime they want.  The fact that you cannot recognize this tells me you are a fucking moron (or a paper-pusher).

At the end of the day, the sooner this shit pile collapses, the sooner compensation will return to people who are actually worth a shit.  Fuck the paper-pushers.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:59 | 2399479 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

You are confused. If the government uses regulations to force all Americans to use the bankers' money but then selectively lightens the regulation on those bankers to give them even more power over you how can you call that deregulation?

If you believe that there are no regualtions on your economic endeavors then may I suggest that you attempt to transact business in the marketplace with others on a strictly voluntary basis with no regard for existing regulations? You will find out very quickly that you have not been deregulated.

As for fraud, the most egregious examples of fraud have been perpetrated through government regulation. TARP was an act of government regulation of the economy. There is no way that regular folks would have forked over a trillion bucks to the banks in a free market. Wise up.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:57 | 2399841 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Sorry LoP, CA is right. The banks derive their power via regulation that mandates their issue as legal tender. That is the key regulation that sustains the ponzi. get rid of that and market discipline would finally come to bear.

Yes, Glass-Steagal hindered the banks' ability to create more money. So removing that legislation sped up the process of debasement. But the underlying problem is that our laws enable the banks to pass off m2/m3/m4 money as if it were cold hard cash.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:46 | 2399827 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

the 'regulation' is false.  it is another hoax.  it's pages and pages of hoax 'regulation' to put people to sleep.

there is some minor regulation in there to keep montag and pals from milking the fed and fdic down completely again, it's a sort of balance to keep them(tbtf) in big bonus but begging them to be nice and not walk on the poor people at fed and fdic (who will lose their jobs and heads first before somebody like lloyd, jamie, montag does) while they are trying to enable the same people.  it's sick and perverse and it's as expected because it's all sick and perverse little people.

the regulations are trying to strike some kind of balance get the robbers not to rob to the point where it all comes down.

it is going to be a lot of fun to see the end game.

oh.  anybody seen jonnie corzine lately?

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 14:14 | 2399575 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

If there had been deregulation then you or I could open an honest bank and compete with the Squid.

_____________________________________________

Really? But the corporations do compete. Competition is and has always been about eliminating the concurrence.

You are no longer part of the competition? You want to turn tables to re enter competition? Too bad for you, at this little game too, corporations outcompete you.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:41 | 2399320 Muppet Pimp
Muppet Pimp's picture

Did yuo even raed the atricle?

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:13 | 2399375 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Those lions are toothless without the police power of the state. It is regulation, written by the bankers that own the government, that allows a set of corporatists to run ramshod over us all. De-regulation has strings that tie the hands of all but the Elites.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 14:16 | 2399582 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Made me laugh. US citizens have this ability to claim something is not when something is.

Competition is a quantifying process. To quantify, you need one rule.

The corporations are toothless without the police power of the state? Nope. The State is toothless against the power of corporations.

Removing the State wont remove corporations. Corporations are the products of middle class societies.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 11:21 | 2399284 Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

This isn't a really difficult conversation, but we keep having it anyway.

The government is doing nothing to stop the "vampire squid." In fact, it is aiding and abetting said squid.

Why do I want to give that same government more authority when it is actively screwing me over?

The bottom line is this: There is a small but growing number of people who realize that the main problem isn't really the "vampire squid," it's the Federal Reserve and government that encourages and empowers the squid. 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:15 | 2399381 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

And without said government and FED they would not have the power to control markets. If you want to confiscate the weapons of the Elites, you merely have to eliminate legal tender laws and the police power of the state.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 14:17 | 2399584 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The elite? But in US citizenism, the middle class is the King class.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 15:53 | 2399736 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

Chinese government does more for the middle class then US govt. Albeit so they can steal more without getting shot. US ruling class not worried about getting shot.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:01 | 2399750 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Chinese government does more for the middle class than the US government?

Waoo, you must have a very relative way to assess things to end with such a conclusion.

That the chinese government would like to mimick the US government when it comes to middle class, likely.

But once again, they are peanuts compared to US of A government.

The oil, the wars, the robbery, the fed toying with inflation on world scale and much more... US government is the best caretaker of middle class

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:20 | 2399781 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Good example here of Chinese citizenism stealth blobbing.

 

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:20 | 2399392 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Wake the fuck up, the vampire squid, the Federal Reserve, and the Government (and all of its regulators) are one and the same.  No way this gets fixed without killing them all and starting over.

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