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Guest Post: The Economics Of Breaking Bad

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by John Aziz of Azizonomics

The Economics Of Breaking Bad

Breaking Bad is the story of Walter White, a cash-strapped, suburban 50-year old high school chemistry teacher, who following a life-changing cancer diagnosis hooks up with his drug-dealing former student, Jesse Pinkman, to cook and sell crystal methamphetamine. Immediately thrown in at the deep end, White undergoes a vast personality change; from mild-mannered Father into the lying, murderous gangland drug lord Heisenberg;  first cooking methamphetamine wearing an apron in a winnebago, then working in a high-tech underground laboratory for the Chilean gangland kingpin Gustavo Fring — who White eventually kills — and finally amassing a multi-hundred-million-dollar pile of cash.

A key dynamic in the show is White’s relationship with his brother-in-law, DEA agent Hank Schrader. It is Schrader who first introduces White to the idea that selling methamphetamine can pay — boasting of multi-hundred-thousand-dollar drug hauls, and even taking White out on a DEA raid of meth lab, where White first encounters his former student Pinkman. As White’s famously pure blue methamphetamine grows in popularity, Schrader becomes increasingly obsessed with its influx, yet spends the course of almost the entire series unaware that its source is his own brother-in-law.

There is another layer of irony, though. For it is not just that Schrader drew White into the drug trade through informing him of its lucrativeness, and then taking him out on a drug raid. In economic terms, Walter White’s illicit drug empire — and all the killing and carnage that spews from it — is utterly dependent upon the protection of Federal agents like Schrader. Breaking Bad is very much a parable of the failed drug war.

As Milton Friedman famously noted:

If you look at the drug war from a purely economic point of view, the role of the government is to protect the drug cartel. That’s literally true.


There is no logical basis for the prohibition of marijuana. Our failure to successfully enforce these laws is responsible for the deaths of thousands of people in Colombia. I haven’t even included the harm to young people. It’s absolutely disgraceful to think of picking up a 22-year-old for smoking pot. More disgraceful is the denial of marijuana for medical purposes.

Why are drugs so lucrative? Why are users forced to pay such a premium over the cost of production? Because of drug prohibition. The more Federal money spent on drug prohibition, the more drugs seized, the higher the markup. Could criminal elements charging a one-thousand percent markup compete with a legal and free market? Of course not; nobody would buy drugs from a wild-eyed gun-wielding dealer when a pure product is available openly for a fraction of the cost.

So it is the Federal drug prohibitionists enforcing drug prohibition — both in the universe of Breaking Bad, as well as the real world — who are empowering the drug cartels, and criminal elements like Walter White who simply get around the law. Supply and demand rule this world. If society demands narcotics, they will be supplied; the only question is how.

As Abraham Lincoln noted:

Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man’s appetite by legislation and make crime out of things that are not crimes.

The economic costs have been massive:

According to DEA estimates we capture less than 10 percent of all illicit drugs. Does $30 billion a year for a 90% failure rate seem like a good investment? And how much would it cost to stop the other 90%? $100 billion? $500 billion?$1 trillion?

And the resultant swollen prison population is not only a huge cost to the taxpayer, it also takes people out of the economy who could instead be working and producing. 59% of federal prisoners are incarcerated for drug chargers, compared to only 2.5% incarcerated for violent crimes.

The war on drugs also stretches scant police resources. 717, 720 Americans were arrested in 1997 for murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault (combined), while 695, 200 were arrested for marijuana offences alone. The time and resources spent on investigating, prosecuting and incarcerating nonviolent drug users is time and resources that has not been spent investigating, prosecuting and incarcerating violent criminals.

Walter White exemplifies the failure of the drug war. Without the folly of prohibitionism White could have profited legally from his obvious talent for supplying a popular recreational pharmaceutical product without having to become part of a vicious and brutal criminal underworld. Under prohibitionism, White was again-and-again forced to either kill or be killed, unleashing his previously-dormant psychopathic potential. The real story of Walter White is that only something as absurd as prohibitionism — and the lucrative criminal underworld that prohibitionism breeds — could provide the catalyst for a mild-mannered chemist to become a wild, murderous psychopath.


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Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:39 | 2760527 caimen garou
caimen garou's picture

protected by the choom gang


Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:43 | 2760541 redpill
redpill's picture

In other news, Paul Krugman is set to marry Ben Bernanke's sister....

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:46 | 2760558 smithcreek
smithcreek's picture

As soon as everyone is free to pay for their own consequences of drug use I'm all for making it all legal.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:53 | 2760590 Precious
Precious's picture

You didn't make that my responsibility ...

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:32 | 2760774 Manthong
Manthong's picture

“Does $30 billion a year for a 90% failure rate seem like a good investment? “

Effectiveness, the cost of the program and eliminating the drug problem is not even in their realm of thought, John.

All that matters is expanding the government program and payroll, the armed presence and control.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:47 | 2760846 Metalredneck
Metalredneck's picture

**DINGDINGDING**  We have a winner.

The job of law enforcement is to promote law enforcement.




Tue, 09/04/2012 - 13:33 | 2761005 Clampit
Clampit's picture

“The object of terrorism is terrorism. The object of oppression is oppression. The object of torture is torture. The object of murder is murder. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?” - George Orwell

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 14:53 | 2761384 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture


Tue, 09/04/2012 - 15:21 | 2761489 Pegasus Muse
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9/11: Explosive Evidence - Experts Speak Out - Trailer -

This is the trailer for the much-anticipated Final Edition of the expert-packed 90-minute documentary by Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth. The powerful documentary takes its cross-country World Premiere Tour of 30 cities with AE911Truth founder and the film's director, Richard Gage, AIA, from May to July 2012. 


Tue, 09/04/2012 - 17:08 | 2761864 rew2
rew2's picture

As Will Rogers said, "Be grateful you're not getting all the government you're paying for."

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:19 | 2760709 smithcreek
smithcreek's picture

Seeing that this site is full of a bunch of supposed "libertarians" I'll assume any junks were because my comment was taken as sarcastic, but it wasn't.  People should be free to do drugs and I should be free to choose to help them or not if and when they need it.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:26 | 2760741 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

It is true. Drugs' addictive properties enhance freedom.

Signed: an American.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:35 | 2760790 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

It is true. Opium's addictive properties enhance obedience to authority.

Signed: an AnAnonymous Chinese citizenism citizen

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:44 | 2760834 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

That Chinese fantasy guy is an 'American'...

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 13:34 | 2761014 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Hah! You're just high, Chim Chim.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 14:55 | 2761396 wagthetails
wagthetails's picture

very good point!  and really why socialism can not work w/o the goverenment making every decision for you, with communism being the final result.  how can you legalize drugs (which i am for), when health care is moving more socialist?  I don't want to pay for ODs.  We have to let people live (or die) from thier decisions.  

Since healthcare is moving more socialist, the gov will have to further regulate human behavior to reduce medical costs.  If we think the war on drugs is very costly, what is the costs of hiring millions of government regulators to watch every aspect of our life....i'm guessing they will qualify zerohedge as bad for your heath.  

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:09 | 2760671 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Portugal’s Drug Experience: New Study Confirms Decriminalization Was a Success

But new research on Portugal’s drug policy suggests that this isn’t necessarily so. Portugal decriminalized possession of all drugs in 2001. The outcome, after nearly a decade, according to a study published in the November issue of the British Journal of Criminology: less teen drug use, fewer HIV infections, fewer AIDS cases and more drugs seized by law enforcement. Adult drug use rates did slightly increase — but this increase was not greater than that seen in nearby countries that did not change their drug policies. The use of drugs by injection declined.

Of course, there’s no way of knowing which, if any, of these changes were caused by the change in policy — without a control group, this kind of research cannot determine cause and and effect. But Portugal started with one of the lowest rates of drug use in Europe — far lower than American rates — and remains below the EU average. For example, 19% of 15-to-16-year-olds in Europe in general have tried marijuana at least once, compared with 13% of Portuguese people that age. The figure for U.S. high school sophomores is 32%. (Related Links: Why Drinking Like a Guy is Worse for Women)

“The most important direct effect was a reduction in the use of criminal justice resources targeted at vulnerable drug users,” says Alex Stevens, professor of criminal justice at the U.K.’s University of Kent, who co-authored the study. “Before, a large number of people were being arrested and punished for drug use alone. They saved themselves a lot of money and stopped inflicting so much harm on people through the criminal justice system. There were other trends since drugs were decriminalized in 2001, but they are less easy to attribute directly to decriminalization.”

Under Portugal’s decriminalization policy, users are not arrested but referred by the police to a “dissuasion” commission. The commission is made up of three people, typically an attorney, a social worker and a medical professional. It determines whether the person is addicted — if so, they can be referred to treatment or given specific penalties like being banned from a particular neighborhood or losing a driver’s license. Treatment is not forced, however, and those who are not addicted are often not sanctioned in any way. Only about 5% to 6% of users are brought before such commissions a second time in the same year. (More on Addiction Files: Recovering From Drug Addiction, Without Abstinence)

Stevens says the positive changes in HIV/AIDS rates and a decline in opioid-related deaths are probably more linked with an expansion of treatment than with decriminalization alone. The number of users in treatment increased by 41% — going from 23,654 to 38,532 between 1998 and 2008. “Releasing funds from [enforcement] allows you to spend more on treatment,” says Stevens.

The changes in teen drug use were complex: throughout Europe, teen drug use rose sharply during the period in which Portugal decriminalized and then fell — the same trend was seen in Portugal but the fall was steeper.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 13:12 | 2760933 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

stop with the facts....'we don't need no stinkin facts'....your local political and law enforcement agencies. Thank you, go about your business while we find other reasons to stop and seach you.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:10 | 2760672 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

In other news, Lisa Falcone, wife of famous hedge fund manager Phil Falcone, caught DUI... Can ZH post some pictures?

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 00:49 | 2763293 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

anyone named falcone is newsworthy for anything, s_laugh_r!

<i didn't junk you>

this series is fuking great, btw:  they guy gets the bad nooz (cancer4X4) and sees himself, his life, his family and his formative (and handicapped) son and "society" all-at-once and just goes jesse james, bonnie & clyde, and butch and sundance at the same time

the great american hero!

his son is a very interesting character imo, b/c he isn't totally "normal" socially (crippled) and also has to sweat everything and focus b/c some things are hard for him;  so he "tries" to be normal so hard!  a young man w/ peach fuzz and dad goes "over to the dark side" too!  anything to help!

this meek little go-nowhere h.s chem teacher can cook!  but he needs partners and marketing and muscle;  he provides his own muscle;  very efficiently, too

he is crazier than the most evil criminal b/c he is not a criminal!  he is just crazier/more REAL than the whole rest of the cast put together and that's sayin something given that tonyaHarding would be cast as theVirgin here;  these fukers are amazing!

plus, the guy can "make soap" and fearlessly tosses nitro while diving somewhere he figures he will only end up hairless;  he's right, too!

the desert scenes are gonzo-evocative

there is an episode of a RE agent showing his young marketing partner's house with people chained in the basement and a bathroom full of blood or something;  i was laughing so hard i couldn't follow it...

it is like post-modern economics in that the nicest people, simply petty "going-along" or "normal" types get pushed so far outa their picture frames by "events" that they just fall out

eveyone is i_love_lucy

just likeReality

but the 'episodes' resolve by becoming exponentially more episodic

the guy doesn't "become a paychopath" imo jAz;  he just decided to switch "games" from h.s. teacher to "drug kingpin" b/c he cared about his family's financial future and was given a death sentence.  get it?

he is extremely intelligent and very good at what he does, exactly the same as when he is teaching  chemistry

he wants to leave them something for when he is gone, and this is just the best damned idea the 2-paycheck suburban stress-mill head-of-household can come up with

these are fantastic stories about the meth world; or rather stories from the fantastic meth world

but the guy is not a psychopath;  he is a businessman-chemist-gangster;  he knows the difference between right and wrong and doesn't hurt "innocent people"

of which there are few, maybe none, it seems, btw...

he is into the meth business but he is not "normal" there, b/c he can think clearly and do chemical engineering and general problem-solving in his sleep;  once he gives himself permission to step beyond the "limits", he is fuking awsome

this shows that if a wo/man wants to live where there are "no rules but property and the lawful defense of same and a person is entitled to the fruits of his/her genius and labor"...

...s/he can!

the "hero" is a shaodowy figure, kinda like batman;  he is physically ill-to-dead and this is for those he loves

batman works out of a "cave" attached to a "mansion in gotham" and has "superior weopons" and "cover"; rich, too!  old money;  his "goodness" is the "dark side" of "legitimate boilerplated wealth";  and...he is totally "undercover"!  L0L!!!

this guy just walks out his fuking front door and commutes to the same underworld as nickCage & eddieMurphy , but not as big-city;  more suburban/small city and middle class

as things get curiouser and curiouser, he 'reveals' himself to one/?/? whom he is trying to help(?) and "firewalls" people...with canoe accidents [m/l]

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:13 | 2760680 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Marshall Islands Legalize Cocaine

The newly inducted president of the Republic of the Marshall Islands has announced the tiny Pacific nation had legalized the use of cocaine by executive order.

President Jurelang Zedkaia, a traditional chief and politician, said the Marshall Islands would also be introducing a no-visa unrestricted entry program for foreign nationals of any country.


Speaking on camera, the visibly emotional Marshallese leader said that the Marshall Islands have a proud history of thousands of years. "Then the Westerners came, first it was the atomic bombs, and then now their irresponsible emissions are drowning our islands. We are tired of being raped and victimized. As a sovereign nation, I declare the right of this country to legalize any substance it wishes."

The revenue from cocaine sales would help the country build sea defenses, or buy up more elevated islands in other parts of the Pacific, the president explained.

When asked where the cocaine would be sourced from, President Zedkaia refused to comment, but assured the assembled reporters that it was "the real thing, uncut and pure, the best you can get."

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:22 | 2760716 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

in other news-Pres Obama will be visiting Marshall Islands tomorrow for an extended good-will tour -the first lady will not be accompanying him. although he will be bringing back a "gift" to sniff off of her big ass.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 17:14 | 2761888 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

I think you have mistaken him for George Bush 43, a man famous for his substance abuse.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 22:27 | 2763050 NumNutt
NumNutt's picture

Time to sell my house, put the kids in boarding schools, and tell the wife to get the boat ready....WE ARE GOING TO THE MARSHALL ISLANDS...WOOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are they excepting new citizens?

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:54 | 2760875 midtowng
midtowng's picture

The drug war is all about control. Control of the public. It doesn't even have anything to do with drugs.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 13:50 | 2761100 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"The drug war is all about control. Control of the public. "

I disagree. Its largely about money for law enforcement (ie hiring more gov't workers). With the exception of creating 100's of thousands of law enforcement jobs is been an absolute failure. The street prices for illegal drugs as fall since the 1970's despite inflation. Money spent on law enforcement would have been better utilitzed on education and treatment

While I absolutely hate the people throw away their lives using drugs, I think the whole deal with drug law enforcement is a complete waste and complete failure. As a Taxpayer, I must pay for drug enforcement, and the costs to imprison people involved. I see innocent people getting killed for drug law enforcment, and the violence cause by the drug war gets worse every year. I doubt anything will change any time soon. There is simply too much money to be made in the drug war so it will go on for the forseeable future.

I also think about the 2+ million prisoners in the US that get three meals a day, cable TV and lots of free time. Compare that to the Millions of people living on the street, living in squalor, and have commited no crime. So we reward those who commit crimes, and punish the honest and poor. Perhaps Spock would have said "This is illogical".



Tue, 09/04/2012 - 15:10 | 2761451 Svendblaaskaeg
Svendblaaskaeg's picture

Roof hits bitches!

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:39 | 2760529 caimen garou
caimen garou's picture

protected by the choom gang


Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:40 | 2760530 realtick
realtick's picture

I am the one who knocks.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:24 | 2760729 FRBNYrCROOKS
FRBNYrCROOKS's picture

Knock means "no warrant". Go away!!!! We are not opening the door least we see your warrant through the peephole.

Cops with warrants don't knock.

Anyone who opens the door for a knocking cop is stupid.

If cop even comes past My NO TRESPASSING sign I will take issue.

We don't need cops. That's why we have guns!

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:42 | 2760531 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

i love this teevee show! it's the only one i watch really. But Aziz i suspect you never partook in Meth. It's not that recreational actually. It's super addictive. It's similar to Adderall actually. And yet I say legalize it ALL. 


BTW i know firsthand froM CIA agent that the gov traffics drugs above and beyond IRan Contra like dealings. CIA agent also said if you took drug money out of Wall St you'd have an instantanious collapse. Make what you will of that in light of recent HSBC laundering (non-)scandal. 

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:45 | 2760548 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Turning people addicted might be recreational from an 'American' point of view...

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:46 | 2760559 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

yes well Aziz's posts have been a bit lacking in research and logic of late...but he tries and that's worth quite a bit today.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:03 | 2760621 Precious
Precious's picture

The only reason these drugs are illegal is because the pharmaceutical industry cannot compete with ordinary people who use simple technology.

Pot (California top crop), opium (Afghanistan top crop), crack (made in Mexico), and other compounds people can easily produce, cannot be monopolized except through government prohibition.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:09 | 2760666 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

'Americans' are not silly people. 'Americans' have designed dozens and dozens of drugs. Drugs is a essential component to 'Americanism'

Pot? 'Americans' have used technology to beat the natural plant.

In the netherlands, where pot is legal, the legality attracted money to research business so to develop a stronger, more loaded pot.

Natural plant contains up to 8pc of the wished substance.

Thanks to 'American' engineering, the pc is now up to 35pc.

What customers are looking for first? The natural quality plant? Or the 'American' engineered plant?

The 'American' pharmaceutical industry wipes the floor with the little producer, the small guy, the small business any time...

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:16 | 2760687 Precious
Precious's picture

There's only one reason pot is illegal.  It's because there is no business model for the pharmaceutical or healthcare industry.  End of story.

If there was a way for pharma or healthcorp to make money from pot, it would surely be legalized nationally by now.  

Not for it personally, but that's a fact.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:29 | 2760755 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Really? But doping substances are also illegal and there is a pharmaceutical model to make bucks out of it.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:51 | 2760862 Metalredneck
Metalredneck's picture

Are you really Lance Armstrong?

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:34 | 2760787 moondog
moondog's picture

William Randolph Hearst and Dupont pushed the criminalization of Hemp in the 1930's. Hemp was used to make multiple products in industry that were direct competition to Dupont.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 14:06 | 2761178 pods
pods's picture

Yep, Nylon patent 1936, marijuana tax act 1937.  Hearst was also a big proponent of the criminality of it.


Tue, 09/04/2012 - 14:39 | 2761311 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture




The automobile starts to become a big thing in America early 1900s. Henry Ford's cars designed for multi-fuel usage, including alcohol produced from the many stills that American farmers and others were already using.


John D. "Standard Oil" Rockefeller becomes a proponent of Prohibition because of 'religious[cough**monopoly**cough]reasons'.


Imagine that...(by the time Prohibition ended, America's fuel of 'choice' for their automobiles was gasoline - mission accomplished)

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 00:14 | 2761657 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Hearst developed his deep concern for public safety after the discovery of a process for refining industrial hemp into high-quality fiber.  He didn't want to admit he'd made a bad investment by purchasing vast tracts of forest.  Never mind that you would die of carbon monoxide poisoning long before you could smoke enough industrial hemp to get high.  The public and Congress are terminally stupid, venal and corrupt.  So Hearst teamed up with a racist pig named Aslinger who wanted yet another excuse to throw black people in jail, and the Demon Weed was born.  Now we "protect the children" by sending them off to be raped by black guys.  The government makes the Demon Weed rapes come true!

These says it's really about protecting the establishment.  Weed (and psychedelics in general) tend to inspire unpatriotic ideas about peace, love, and the absurdity of the hamster wheel.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 14:36 | 2761304 Precious
Precious's picture

Exactly.  The government (wherever) prohibits the substance and then facilitates a protected substitute offered through large businesses.

Valium, Vicoden and chemical similars are FDA (legally monopolized) competitors to naturally occurring TCP in pot.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 17:12 | 2761882 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Plus the meds help people to forget that their life sucks, while slowly dumbing them down.  THC helps people think about the underlying reasons why their life sucks.  Can't have that.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 19:31 | 2762456 margaris
margaris's picture

I heard that often, but I dont agree.

THC can only take and transform what is already there. It doesn't change you fundamentally... its more like an enhancer.

If you are depressed THC can make you more depressed, if you are happy it can make you more happy.

If you are a simpleton who doesn't like science or philosophy... THC will not suddenly make you the big thinker.


I see it this way: THC is like a girl that is being mistreated by daddy government, and her ugly stepsisters (alcohol and nicotine) are clearly in favor of this asshole-government.

Thats why you see people hyping the effects of THC a little too often... Its like being on the side of the underdog, and trying to help. I understand that.

But lets stay honest.

It's a drug. Drugs can ruin your life, even THC...

It IS good medicine. But the moment you think you need medicine everyday, is the moment you are a sick poor guy who is drifting into neglect.


Eating right, exercising often and finding complete freedom (instead of being a debt slave) is the key to a healthy life, and not a drug.


Legalize everything of course..., but not because the drug is good for you.... no... its about reducing the power the government has over our lifes.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:18 | 2760704 forexskin
forexskin's picture

hi again one note idiot troll

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:39 | 2760811 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous, stumbling and slurring, said:

What customers are looking for first? The natural quality plant? Or the 'American' engineered plant?

The 'American' pharmaceutical industry wipes the floor with the little producer, the small guy, the small business any time...

Are you stoned or just stupid?

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:45 | 2760838 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

That is why a question is answered by a question... Sound.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 13:35 | 2761018 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


That is why a question is answered by a question... Sound.

Ah, I see, you're stoned and stupid.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:56 | 2760589 FRBNYrCROOKS
FRBNYrCROOKS's picture

What a coincidence in the early 1980s, about the time the CIA started supplying shouder firing stinger missles to Osama bin Laden to take out Soviet helicopters in Afghanistan, that an abundance to Afghani buds started circulating around my highschool. I suppose those CIA planes never come back empty?

 A big surprise the (CIA) Pentagon extended the war in Afghanistan one more  (opium harvest season) year.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:06 | 2760653 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Don't forget the terror-funding in Central America and the crack explosion.  Once Congress passed a law to prevent the Reagan administration from funding the Contras with tax money, they just switched to cocaine importation.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 13:52 | 2761116 Coast Watcher
Coast Watcher's picture

It started long before Afghanistan. The CIA was running drugs out of the Golden Triangle in Southeasy Asia during the Vietnam War. Where do you think all the high-grade pot and heroin that was used to "calm" the ghettos after the riots of '68 came from?

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 14:46 | 2761356 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture



Some of that came back with the bodies of our dead soldiers(in the body bags) who were KIA in Vietnam.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:15 | 2760692 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

A drug is neither moral nor immoral -- it's a chemical compound. The compound itself is not a menace to society until a human being treats it as if consumption bestowed a temporary license to act like an asshole.

Frank Zappa
Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:31 | 2760771 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Made me laugh.

'Americans' cling to their old canard.

Drugs are objects that are designed. And they are designed to fulfill a purpose. That purpose itself is therefore submitted to morality.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 01:04 | 2762209 monad
monad's picture

Hate to break it to you, but your central bankers are part of the international finance kleptocracy too. What comes around goes around. If you call it 'consumerism' noone will think you're a brainwashed retard. just sayin'.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 13:22 | 2760963 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

One of the things I always liked about FZ--he was always careful to distinguish between his preferences and "the world." 

He really didn't like working with druggies all the time and fired more than a few over the years, but even being opposed to drug use personally, he didn't make up bullshit about them.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:20 | 2760712 moondog
moondog's picture

That's how Black-Ops get funded. That way, Congress doesn't have to get involved in funding. I'm sure the well connected families like the Bushes get a nice cut of the profits as well.

Until the penalties are sufficient, money laundering will continue.

It is is interesting that we don't see the same amount of attention paid to the many US banks involved in laundering. I suppose they must have the protection of the US political class.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 18:18 | 2762134 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

They pay good money for that protection.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:38 | 2760806 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

I once did MDA, Meth, Dex, Acid.  I liked it so much I knew I'd never do it again.  A couple chopper pilots, recently back from Vietnam had some. I trusted these guys, only time I ever hit up with a needle.  Country Joe MacDonald was spreading the word about crystal, it had destroyed his wife.  Education works for most people.  Don't drive stoned and keep it away from the kids.  Ain't rocket science.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 13:05 | 2760913 Freddie
Freddie's picture

CIA agent also said if you took drug money out of Wall St you'd have an instantanious collapse.

Sounds like he moonlights for Goldman Sachs.  We heard the same threats about TARP and QE.  "If we don't do X then we will all die."  F them all.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:42 | 2760538 Cursive
Cursive's picture

I understand both sides of this issue.  Legalization probably leads to less violence, but it also probably means more use.  Why can't people just learn a little dignity and self-moderation?  High drug use is a symptom of society in decline, a pervasive lack of self-control.  There is no law, nor lack of a law to stop that.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:45 | 2760553 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

there is such a thing as the addictive gene. and the blurry distinction between nature nurture. there's also AA, but most addicts don't make it or if they do don't last. it's not so clear cut re: addiction. but those that have poor "self control" more at malfucntion of pre-frontal cortex risk reward dopamine distribution and impulse control will get high on the legal substances anyway. so LEGALIZE IT ALL.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:57 | 2760607 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@ vast-dom

The "addictive gene" can't explain the rampant spread of "recreation" drug use in Western societies.  People who, in the past, could stop at a couple of glasses of wine per house or a drink per hour no longer feel that restraint.  Since the explosion of the "youth generation" of the 1950's and America's exporting of it worldwide, we are a nation of pleasure seekers.  Look at the nation debt.  We are fixated on instant gratification.  Regardless of the existence of an "addictive" gene or not, it wasn't always that way.  This is how societies regress and fail.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:08 | 2760616 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

you have no idea what you are typing. sorry. and yes increase stress factors like say econ hardship and usage increases, but again your cause and effect is as presumption as it is erroneous.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:11 | 2760670 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

Exactly, it's a "chicken or the egg" situation.

I'm young, and I turned to drugs at a young age because I hated the world I saw around me.  My peers were brainwashed on American Idol, so I turned to paying attention to the news.  I thought I would maybe be able to relate to people older than me.  Well the more news I watched, the more I saw that the people that watched the MSM were just as bad as the american idol watching crowd.  

I turned to Jack Daniels and havent looked back.  

Its strange though, most people I meet that are "awake" are sitting on a barstool next to me

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:25 | 2760735 Cursive
Cursive's picture


If your answer to coping with the struggles of life (American Idol no less - WOW!) is to self-medicate with Jack Daniels, then that's truly pathetic behavior.  I also enjoy drinking, but not to make my life livable.  Grow a pair and deal with your problems like an adult.  Don't go hide in a bottle of Jack.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:34 | 2760781 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

Who said I use alcohol to deal with my problems?

Don't jump to conclusions oh wise one.

I merely said that after I felt like an "outcast" I began drinking and doing so has introduced to me a crowd that I connect with.  

I have a pair, and upon seeing them you would wish you were born a woman

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:12 | 2760678 Cursive
Cursive's picture


OK then, it's all just an "addictive" gene and people don't have free will.  Everything we do and say is pre-programmed by our genetic make-up and we really can't control ourselves.  It's thinking like this that leads to fascism and governments taking control of people's lives.  If everything is genetics, the government will find it's way into the womb and make the necessary "corrections".  I, myself, prefer liberty and free will to eugenics.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:25 | 2760727 forexskin
forexskin's picture

Why can't people just learn a little dignity and self-moderation?  High drug use is a symptom of society in decline, a pervasive lack of self-control.  There is no law, nor lack of a law to stop that.

sure people have free will. all this legislation accomplishes is to prevent them exercising it well. the situation as it stands proves nothing. i like your avatar, but your defense of liberty here is a little weak.

given the ability to make choices, people would learn choice making. either big sister is failing with respect to the stated intention, or the stated intention differs from the hidden.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 13:28 | 2760996 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

+1 can't upvote cause of the italics

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 16:13 | 2761630 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

There is no credible evidence that suggests that people have free will.  The universe is controlled by cause and effect.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 18:22 | 2762152 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Yes, in hard times alcohol and drug usage increases and so does wife beating and child abuse.  Poverty seems to bring out the worst in people.  

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:04 | 2760640 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


Why limited Addictive types to drugs?

Ever consider the rise in sexuality? Exercise? Religion? Politics? Texting? Gaming?Cell phone use in general?

ALL are symptomatic of the increase of addictive personality types.

People tend to focus on a single toothpick in the pile and overlook the thousands of others in the stack.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:10 | 2760659 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture



and uh....i think i am addicted to ZH....

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:16 | 2760697 Gully Foyle
Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:43 | 2760826 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

And the wonderful ability to sit at the computer surfing the net while drinking = twofer!

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:19 | 2760705 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@Gully Foyle

ALL are symptomatic of the increase of addictive personality types.


That's exactly my point.  I don't think we have an increase in addicitive personality types, we have a more permissive society that encourages self-pleasure.  Don't worry about being productive or contributing to your family, load up on viagra, do some lines of coke and whack off till your dick is raw! ( I had a control room operater tell me he did this for fun when he wasn't working and he couldn't find anyone to screw on  We collectively have less self-control and more self-pathologies.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:31 | 2760772 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture



Some people have addictive personalities. It's how they are built.

With an information based society we get to see much more of those addictions rationalized.

Does anyone really think that zero body fat is healthy? That stick figured models and actresses are sexy and healthy looking?

Those addictions get rationalized as acceptable.

Until someone dies then it becomes how sad.

In my opinion it isn't permissiveness so much as the lack of rational thought. People refuse to think things through or see the alternative explanation.

People are scared to question the activities of others because they then are forced to question their own activities and outlooks.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:43 | 2760828 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

 I don't think we have an increase in addicitive personality types, we have a more permissive society that encourages self-pleasure.


You can look at it from the flipside - humanity lacks patience, self-respect and self-distance.

But hey, it's the XXI century, the age of instantaneous pleasures!

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:18 | 2760706 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

All of those activities you listed involve the nuerotransmitter Dopamine.  

People dont get addicted to the activities you listed exclusively, they get addicted to the release of dopamine as it is the reward chemical in our brain.  


Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:33 | 2760780 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


We are biochemical robots lacking free will.

We are limited by our genetic makeup.

No way to fix bad genes.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:37 | 2760802 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

You're so wrong.

Google told me how to do it.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 13:52 | 2761113 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Your account of history is selective. There have been alcoholics since the first mead was brewed. The ancient Greeks and Romans aren't known for their abstaining from hedonistic behavior (including use of intoxicants). The Great Binge began about 60 years before the Flower Children were born, WWI interrupted the party, then the Roaring Twenties happened.

It is beyond presumptuous to say that the negative consequences of drug addiction are immutable. A culture that drives use of recreational drugs underground will reap what is has sown. And no mention of licit drugs, many of which mimic the effects stigmatized illicit drugs? It's more than a little conspicuous that the most medicated population in history has such a problem with a single artificially constructed class of chemicals (the illegal ones).

Yes, people's feelings are going to be hurt.

I'd gladly trade full legalization of all drugs (all chemicals) for the proselytizing and hand-wringing of the moral crusaders and chicken-littles. Telling people what they can and cannot do is inconsistent with the liberty that is the right of all people, it is a criminal abrogation of this right.

If you want to do speedballs all day until you die, that is your prerogative, the act in itself harms no one but you. "Societal good" is code for "more state power" which always entails less liberty.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 13:13 | 2760935 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

Life is hard.  Drugs are easy.  No mysterious gene, just a desire to take the easy road. 

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:50 | 2760579 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

Expand your mind square

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:53 | 2760588 fuu
fuu's picture

I disagree with, "but it also probably means more use".

People do drugs whether it is legal or not. I have a hard time believing there is a herd of people out there waiting for Meth, Coke, and Smack to be legal so the can get it on.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:08 | 2760642 Cursive
Cursive's picture


Agree or disagree on the actual numbers of people who might use, a lower price point and less purchase risk would greatly increase usuage among current users.  These are already dangerous people in need of medical and psycological attention.  Now, you could regulate the amount of the allowable level of the narcotic or use a ration system, but how is that less government regulation and how easy would it be to game that?  Look, some things are really harmful.  There are some substances and some behaviors that are very detrimental to the larger society.  Heavy and debilitating drug use is one of those and, although I consider myself a libertarian and would love less government, drug legalization is not the panacea that most advocates make it out to be.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:22 | 2760723 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

I have agreed with most of what you've said here.  I will, however, have to disagree but only that certain drugs should be legalized.  Marijuana should most certainly be legalized.  The money made from that and alcohol should be used to teach people about the dangers of addiction.  The drug war is a crime against the people of this nation.  Of course, we should strive to have a drug free youth but the fact is, Pot is not a dangerous drug and it is counter-productive to keep it illegal and on the same level as real narcotics..

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 13:23 | 2760973 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

Right. Stick to legal alcohol - not harmful to person or detrimental to the larger society.

yeah, sarc.

Look, we are not talkin' panacea, we are talking reality and best solutions.

I have been quoted several times in the media with one of my favorite one-liners: "Outlawing marijuana is the most succesful government agricultural price support program ever devised." As a former paramedic, I have to add that making a medical problem (coke/meth/horse addiction) a police problem is very, very bad policy in both the long and short run.

There are costs (social fabric and dollars) to legalization, of course. They turn out (Portugal, Denmark) to be less than the cost of suppression/incarceration. The so-called war on drugs is an obvious failure - but it is an institutionalized failure that bureaucracies are having a hard time admitting (though most cops on the streets know it). It seems to serve two purposes:

-It allows the morally righteous to be proud at their cocktail parties, and

- It is a wonderful justification for maintenance of a police state, with large number of public employees and large prisons.

- (It also keeps organized crime very profitable - guess that is regarded as 'collateral damage' by TPTB.)

The whole drug deal - alcohol OK (though it was not for a time - how did that work out?) and most other intoxicants/mood changers not OK is a symptom of a society that cannot think clearly - keeping maryjane illeagal and alcohol legal is a kind of blindness to the reality of the drugs themselves and the kind of detrimental effects both have on society. Every paramedic out there sees the difference every day - alcohol has huge effects - car wrecks, spousal and child abuse, violence between drunks in a bar, on and on - maryjane (when not mixed with other drugs) creates very few ambulalnce runs.


Tue, 09/04/2012 - 16:18 | 2761654 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

The PTB is organized crime.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:56 | 2760593 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"Why can't people just learn a little dignity and self-moderation?"

Because drugs, not christianity, provide amerikans with their true paths to transcendance....

Amerikans like to cheat.

So spiritually bankrupt are we....and so pig-ignorant of ourselves.

Drugs=666 Joy

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:05 | 2760648 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


As one guru told Ram Dass being given LSD, it still isn't as good as meditation.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:55 | 2760601 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Check the Portugal data. This was done and very well-studied.

Decriminalization did NOT result in a measurable increase in use there, but the greater availability and flexibility of treatment options helped MORE people who wanted to get clean find a way to do so.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:00 | 2760624 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

thank you very much blunder!

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:07 | 2760657 Cursive
Cursive's picture


Link?  How old is the study?  Anything less than 20 years would be hard to place an credence.  Also, realize that "treatment options" mean that the government is still regulating the space.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:11 | 2760676 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

It's hands-down the best dataset ever collected on the question, and it's the most FAMOUS study of the issue, but I'll be happy to Google it for you because I realize you may not be qualified to operate your computer machine:

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:33 | 2760785 Cursive
Cursive's picture


The link that one chooses is very telling.  I didn't know if you were going to cite this:

At least you and George Soros have one thing in common.


Tue, 09/04/2012 - 18:15 | 2762025 Reptil
Reptil's picture


that "second opinion" is a COMPLETE FRAUD.
I'm dutch and worked for the government as researcher, so I know what the hell I'm talking about.

Even in the comments below the article it's identified as a fraud. So you knew that.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:59 | 2760889 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

What's even more telling is whether people determine what's real based on their OPINIONS or based on communicable DATA about a shared reality.

Thanks for clarifying which approach you use.  There are folks who know the world's really flat, too.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 13:42 | 2761049 Cursive
Cursive's picture


Keep naively clinging to your "data," and it will be your undoing.  Data are very easy to make-up and control tests are often rigged to the desired outcome.  Wasn't DDT great?  It was used extensively for decades before new studies confirmed environmental and ecological problems.  Your beloved Portugal study covers all of maybe 10 years.  That's a blip on the radar.  Also, why is drug trafficking still against the law in Portugal?

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 14:46 | 2761355 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Science is what built the fancy machine you're typing on and unable to use.  It was not worship of gods and superstition that got us here.

We clearly have nothing to discuss--you just don't live in the same world I inhabit.  Later.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 15:10 | 2761452 Cursive
Cursive's picture


We have nothing to discuss because you avoid inconveinient questions like why is drug trafficking still prosecuted in Portugal.  Go ahead, hide behind your data and half-arguments.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 15:29 | 2761506 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

     inconveinient questions

The question isn't "inconveinient."  It's irrelevant.

Not to mention, you already KNOW why drug trafficking is still prosecuted in Portugal.  Or, at least you have an opinion on why, which is the same thing.  You're trying to construct an argument without any information.

Rhetorical questions can make for good speeches, but they can't build bridges.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 14:50 | 2761372 Chump
Chump's picture

DDT?  Those infamously goal-seeked and flawed studies?  That's the standard you hold to when you're trying to discredit a study on the decriminalization of illicit drugs?  Oh, that's right, you're also the guy who just tried to dismiss said study by using an ad hominem attack against George Soros.  I heard he even breathes air...just like blunderdog!  Coincidence??

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 15:25 | 2761499 Cursive
Cursive's picture


Is it a coincidence that nothing about the laws in Portugal have stopped drug trafficking into the nation?  Is it a conincidence that the Portugeuse state still procsecutes drug traffickers?  If "legalization" in Portugal has been such a grand success, why are illegal, illicit transactions still being investigated?

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 15:49 | 2761562 Chump
Chump's picture

I find it strange that in your comments here you either say Portugal's experiment is too short-lived to provide any meaningful lessons for other countries, or you say that Portugal's experiment has not been successful enough to warrant further study.  Both are illogical and mutually exclusive positions to hold.  Add in the rest of your fallacious reasoning and arguments and you have a recipe for useless debate.

As to your questions: I don't know.  I could offer up my opinions concerning the nature of personal consumption and large-scale trafficking.  Or I could examine the history of drug use in Portugal and related laws.  I would do either or both of those things if I thought you were interested in a discussion, but I think mostly you're just working to maintain your current opinion in the face of any information or arguments that challenge it.  I base my opinion on the fact that you have dismissed this Portugal study many times out-of-hand because 1.) it was linked on a website with the name 'George Soros' in the domain name and 2.) it is a study and studies are manipulated, as evidenced by some vague studies that are actually good studies (because you agree with them I guess).

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 18:04 | 2762059 Reptil
Reptil's picture


Because the use of it is decriminalised, so users are not marginalised. As you probably don't know Spain and Portugal are important gateways into europe for the Cocaïne trade. I bet you didn't know that. Because you don't seem to know a whole lot about the subject.

You just like to write crap, don't you?

My, my this article does attract drugcartel/DEA shills!

Incidentally there's a powerful push (with public support) to allow the growth of hemp officially in parts of europe. I doubt that will be allowed, because of USA pressure.


Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:48 | 2760847 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

Is your argument really that "since portugal is still helping out with treatment that it is a failed experiment"?

I'm just asking, because if so that is extremely shortsighted.

I would gladly trade all of the costs that our nation incurs on "criminals" who rot in jail just because they want to get high, all the costs that we spend on paying cops to patrol just looking for dime bags, and all of the failed PSA campaigns to fund some programs for people who need help.

Wouldnt you?

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 13:32 | 2761009 Cursive
Cursive's picture


Who is shortsighted?  On the one hand, you seem to want drugs legalized.  On the other, you welcome the helping hand of Big Brother.  The whole point of my argument is that there are other and better mediating institutions than just either "The Market" or "The Government."  Unfortunately, few people could name any of these time-honored institutions for society building.  It is also naive to think that what works in Portugal will definitely work in America.  Why does Portugal continue to prosecute drug trafficking?  Hell, if it's such a fucking success, why is there any trafficking to speak of?  Then there is the time factor.  Ten years?  Didn't the vast majority of Americans consider Social Security a smashing success just 10 years in.  Maybe you and blunderdog and vast-dom think the GM bailout will work, too?  What happens when there is the inevitable bureaucratic drift that befalls all government programs?  America has had major breaks to our social fabric to expect either drug legalization or renewed or different government programs to make much of a change to our drug problems.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 14:02 | 2761157 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

There are no shared collective drug problems without the state, only individuals using drugs. Bringing the state into it makes a personal decision into everyone's problem. You are a collectivist, your "society-building" rhetoric admits of no other explanation, so simply admit that you prefer to enslave others to your will via the intermediary of the state, damn the disastrous consequences, than let them choose for themselves and let the future be.

You desire a society built on repression. That is unethical, and incredibly foolish, to put it politely.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 15:22 | 2761492 Cursive
Cursive's picture


You can drop the faux nicities.  If you think the "state" equals "society," then there is no hope in arguing with you.  I am no collectivist, just as no man is an island.  We have to live together and, unfortunately, the choices you make affect other people.  That's life, not some pseudo-intellectual bullshit that you just made up from your armchair.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:43 | 2760540 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

As usual, it is a story about an' american' middle class man.

Hollywood is a temple built to glorify the 'american' middle class...

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:48 | 2760570 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

of late HW is focused on many more lucrative demographics. and have you seen the show? it's actually about the middle class in decline. it's about the middle class heading into insolvency. it's a great fucking show.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:02 | 2760634 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Never watched the show. I am discovering the existence of it.

Sounds honest, though. A keen look on 'American' nature as it exhibits the lack of scrupule 'Americans' show when it comes to use drugs to provide themselves welfare.

'Americans' and drugs, a huge love story. Doubtful that it conveys the idea that the middle class is in decline.

Since 1776, July, 4th, 'Americans', including the middle class, have lavishly used drugs to provide themselves welfare, destroying lifes in the doing.

But hey, sacrifying sub humans and non humans so that human beings can live a comfortable life is an 'American' tenet...

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:05 | 2760649 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

if you haven't watched the show WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU COMMENTING LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S ABOUT? JESUS WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE IN ZH? Okay time to make some doughnuts and stop playing!

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:12 | 2760679 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Who needs to watch the show to make the comments I made?

The OP provides with a depiction. So far, I read no comment about the depiction 's inaccuracy.

Is the hero an 'american' middle class man? Does the show depict him as using drugs to increase his welfare?

If yes, watching the show is useless because it is as reported in the OP.

Wont waste my time on 'American' cultural items just to gain an insight that is already known.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:26 | 2760740 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


White is a high school chemistry teacher with a second job and disabled son. he is diagnosed with Lung cancer and given a short time to live.

He starts making meth so his family will be able to survive when he dies.

He capitalizes on his ability as a chemist.

Then he capitalizes on his ability as a ruthless motherfucker.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:41 | 2760824 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Basically, he is an 'American' middle class man who uses drugs to increase his own welfare.

The show seems to depict in a keen way the 'american' nature. New additional information: he shifted the blame on his own choice on someone's else. Very 'American'.

Let me guess: his 'american' son discovers his father is a drug manufacturer and dealer, grows ashamed that his father uses his incapacity as an excuse to deal drugs and wants to leave the town, if not allowed, he threatens his father with giving him out to the police.

Something of the sort. 'American' story lines are of the same pattern.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:55 | 2760880 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

AnAnonymous has poisoned this thread, and for some reason I youtubed this video and it brought me a laugh.

 Of course it does nothing to refute his typical "american citizenism" bullshit, but after watching this video I went back and read all of his post with a chinese accent.  Good times.

Christmas Story - Fa ra ra ra ra



Tue, 09/04/2012 - 14:48 | 2761361 resurger
resurger's picture

lol VD

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:09 | 2760668 machineh
machineh's picture

Your engrish destroy my lifes!

All your scrupules are belong to us.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:15 | 2760689 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

That or 'American' relationship to drugs...

My bet that many people would prefer to get their life destroy by my english rather than enduring the devastation of drugs as brought by 'Americanism'

The most likely people to disagree shall be criminals.

But 'Americanism' has always mesmerized criminals...

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:20 | 2760711 magpie
magpie's picture

AA, actually you should be praising this show - it displays and exposes the "king class" as criminals, a role previously filled by non-"US citizens", like South "American" feudal robber barons. /sarc

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:48 | 2760849 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Criminals are most of the times 'Americans'

Gangsters are mesmerized by 'Americanism'

In earlier posts, I reported that the show, according to the depiction, provides an honest take on the 'American' middle class.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 13:26 | 2760986 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous babbled:

My bet that many people would prefer to get their life destroy by my english rather than enduring the devastation of drugs as brought by 'Americanism'

Are you kidding? I'd much rather spark up a doobie than wade through your idiotic crap, Chim Chim.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 14:20 | 2761234 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Sure AnAnonymous Im sure youre spot-on with your observations that only americans lack 'scruples' and use drugs. Uh huh.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:43 | 2760542 magpie
magpie's picture

Does this count as manufacturing or is it part of the service sector

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:01 | 2760630 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

Re-hab clinics count as part of service-sector GDP, so legalization would statistically be "good for the economy" and "create good-paying jobs" (substance abuse counselors, etc).

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:44 | 2760543 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"And how much would it cost to stop the other 90%? $100 billion? $500 billion?$1 trillion?"

It would cost some amount of money and all of your freedom.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:49 | 2760576 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

And you forgot lots of lives... from suckers who joined the military, to drug cartels employees who were forced in the business because of threats/economic poverty and let's not forget cops and the occasional civilians caught in the crossfire.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 19:12 | 2762374 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

The war on drugs is unwinnable.  Proof:  Drugs are available in prison.  This won't stop our overlords from turning our entire society into a giant prison, because they have always wanted to do this anyway.  The drugs will still be there and they will inspire more corruption and fear to feed the prison state.  If TPTB had a magic button which would get rid of ALL drugs, they wouldn't press it any more than they would press a magic anti-terrorism button.  Bad for business.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:44 | 2760544 Imminent Collapse
Imminent Collapse's picture

If you think that certain government agencies aren't black funding themselves through drug dealing, then you must be smoking crack.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:54 | 2760598 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

that is why the death-knell of the dollar is a garbage argument. the CIA DEA needs to pad their swiss account with non-traceable cash.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 16:35 | 2761748 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

The agency supervisors can also generate the cash that's needed for those "well deserved" bonuses that they would otherwise have to wait for from the private sector.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:44 | 2760546 toady
toady's picture

I just wish the show was over. 8 episodes a year? Wait 10 or 11 months for episodes that are already shot? Ahh well, it's only tv, who cares?

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:04 | 2760638 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Its an entertaining show I like it, but a lot of it is unreal.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:45 | 2760547 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Have a kid that is using drugs?  Read this book...


...then talk to a counselor at an APG.


Tue, 09/04/2012 - 11:47 | 2760564 Freddie
Freddie's picture

??  What is an APG?    Drugs suck. 

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:20 | 2760708 hedgeless_horseman
Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:06 | 2760608 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

go fuck yourself and your amazon book links hedgeless_horseman:

"For over 24 years I have worked in the field of drug addiction as a counselor. I know Bob Meehan very well. I worked for one of Meehan's programs many years ago. I have seen him prey on the hopeless parents and twist the minds of vulnerable young people on drugs.

Today I am appalled by the things I have witnessed and been involved in. At the time of my involvement I started out a young, single mother hopelessly lost and on drugs. While the program helped me to get off drugs and start a new life I became a prisoner to the cult, bound by my own fear of loosing my new friends and life; of using drugs again if I went to another 12 step program, because they would not understand me.

Today I am happily married, I have raised 3 children of my own and I am a respected member of my community. All of these things go totally against what Meehan and his staff teach. I was told that I should leave my family and be a "winner" in the program. That my parents were not fit and they were my problem.

In a well founded 12 step program I have found true freedom from drugs, alcohol and the Meehan cult. I have a wonderful relationship with my parents now and I understand the importance of love and family.

If you are considering this book or putting your child in one of Meehan's program, please reconsider. There are some true professionals that can help you with your child or your drug problem.

There is a reason that he has been called the "Pied Piper""

hedgeless_horseman: another ZH jerkoff that does not know what they are talking about!


Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:14 | 2760667 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Impressive, you can copy a review from Amazon without even reading the book. 

I have seen Mehan's program, PDAP, and similiar programs work with my own eyes.  

Other than lobbying to legalize drugs and promoting a "great fucking [television] show" about drugs, what advice, exactly, do you have for a parent with a kid on drugs?

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:16 | 2760690 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

advice? simple: love patience and 12 step program. in that order and with a 0% guarantee that it will work!


you have no fucking idea what you copy paste, again and again. you endorsing Mehan is like you endorsing Scientology which does "work" initially, or does it really?

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:18 | 2760702 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Meehan's program is a 12 step program that is very long love and patience.  In fact, I understand that it is the most successful 12 step program for teen alcoholics and addicts ever.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:21 | 2760713 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

"the most successful 12 step program" = you really are a jerkoff.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 12:34 | 2760734 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

The Twelve Steps of PDAP

  1. We admitted that mind-changing chemicals had caused at least part of our lives to become unmanageable.
  2. We found it necessary to "Stick With Winners" in order to grow.
  3. We realized that a Higher Power, expressed through our love for each other, could help restore us to sanity.
  4. We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, as we understand Him.
  5. We made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
  6. We admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrong doings.
  7. We became willing to allow our Higher Power, through the Love of the group, to help change our ways of life and humbly asked Him to help us change.
  8. We made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.
  9. We made direct amends to such people, whenever possible, except when to do so would injure them, others or ourselves.
  10. We have continued to look at ourselves and when wrong, promptly admitted it.
  11. We have sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with our Higher Power, that we have chosen to call God, praying only for knowledge of His Will for us and courage to carry that out.
  12. We, having had a Spiritual awakening as a result of these Steps, tried to carry our love and understanding to others, and to practice these principles in our daily lives.


Vast-Dom, you really are a one-trick pony.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 15:07 | 2761414 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

those are NOT The 12 steps you dimwit! they are in fact subverting the actual 12 steps! i won't waste my time breaking it down because you already know everything about everything! but let me add that the 1st step of this PDAP proves that he is yet another fucktard exploiting something good and turning it into an utter misunderstanding. just because he put stolen and misunderstood original points into 12 "steps" does make it a 12 step, but it don't mean he is comprehending what the objectives of the original program are.


I had no idea that my above "12 step" reference would be so grossly misrepresented and misunderstodd but yet again hedgeless_horseman proves once again he is a certifiable IDIOT!

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 15:58 | 2761497 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



...just because he put stolen and misunderstood original points into 12 "steps" does make it a 12 step, but it don't mean he is comprehending what the objectives of the original program are.

Stolen?  Misunderstood? 

AA gave PDAP permission to alter the AA 12 steps to better fit Meehan's experiences with successful recovery for the adolescent drug addict.

Tue, 09/04/2012 - 17:32 | 2761963 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

you dumb shit there is no governing body in AA and as such AA did not give permission. Wow man! Please shove that book into your ass along with your head.


furthermore you have no understanding of the 12 steps bc if you did you'd realize that both the link and the butchered shithead steps SUBVERT the Bill Wilson AA steps!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!