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Guest Post: The Essential Rules Of Tyranny

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Submitted by Brandon Smith of Alt Market

The Essential Rules Of Tyranny

As we look back on the horrors of the dictatorships and autocracies of the past, one particular question consistently arises; how was it possible for the common men of these eras to NOT notice what was happening around them? How could they have stood as statues unaware or uncaring as their cultures were overrun by fascism, communism, collectivism, and elitism? Of course, we have the advantage of hindsight, and are able to research and examine the misdeeds of the past at our leisure. Unfortunately, such hindsight does not necessarily shield us from the long cast shadow of tyranny in our own day. For that, the increasingly uncommon gift of foresight is required…

At bottom, the success of despotic governments and Big Brother societies hinges upon a certain number of political, financial, and cultural developments. The first of which is an unwillingness in the general populace to secure and defend their own freedoms, making them completely reliant on corrupt establishment leadership. For totalitarianism to take hold, the masses must not only neglect the plight of their country, and the plight of others, but also be completely uninformed of the inherent indirect threats to their personal safety. They must abandon all responsibility for their destinies, and lose all respect for their own humanity. They must, indeed, become domesticated and mindless herd animals without regard for anything except their fleeting momentary desires for entertainment and short term survival. For a lumbering bloodthirsty behemoth to actually sneak up on you, you have to be pretty damnably oblivious.

The prevalence of apathy and ignorance sets the stage for the slow and highly deliberate process of centralization. Once dishonest governments accomplish an atmosphere of inaction and condition a sense of frailty within the citizenry, the sky is truly the limit. However, a murderous power-monger’s day is never quite done. In my recent article ‘The Essential Rules of Liberty’ we explored the fundamentally unassailable actions and mental preparations required to ensure the continuance of a free society. In this article, let’s examine the frequently wielded tools of tyrants in their invariably insane quests for total control…

Rule #1: Keep Them Afraid

People who are easily frightened are easily dominated. This is not just a law of political will, but a law of nature. Many wrongly assume that a tyrant’s power comes purely from the application of force. In fact, despotic regimes that rely solely on extreme violence are often very unsuccessful, and easily overthrown. Brute strength is calculable. It can be analyzed, and thus, eventually confronted and defeated. Thriving tyrants instead utilize not just harm, but the imminent THREAT of harm. They instill apprehension in the public; a fear of the unknown, or a fear of the possible consequences for standing against the state. They let our imaginations run wild until we see death around every corner, whether it’s actually there or not. When the masses are so blinded by the fear of reprisal that they forget their fear of slavery, and take no action whatsoever to undo it, then they have been sufficiently culled.

In other cases, our fear is evoked and directed towards engineered enemies. Another race, another religion, another political ideology, a “hidden” and ominous villain created out of thin air. Autocrats assert that we “need them” in order to remain safe and secure from these illusory monsters bent on our destruction. As always, this development is followed by the claim that all steps taken, even those that dissolve our freedoms, are “for the greater good”. Frightened people tend to shirk their sense of independence and run towards the comfort of the collective, even if that collective is built on immoral and unconscionable foundations. Once a society takes on a hive-mind mentality almost any evil can be rationalized, and any injustice against the individual is simply overlooked for the sake of the group.

Rule #2: Keep Them Isolated

In the past, elitist governments would often legislate and enforce severe penalties for public gatherings, because defusing the ability of the citizenry to organize or to communicate was paramount to control. In our technological era, such isolation is still used, but in far more advanced forms. The bread and circus lifestyle of the average westerner alone is enough to distract us from connecting with each other in any meaningful fashion, but people still sometimes find ways to seek out organized forms of activism.

Through co-option, modern day tyrant’s can direct and manipulate opposition movements. By creating and administrating groups which oppose each other, elites can then micromanage all aspects of a nation on the verge of revolution. These “false paradigms” give us the illusion of proactive organization, and the false hope of changing the system, while at the same time preventing us from seeking understanding in one another. All our energies are then muted and dispersed into meaningless battles over “left and right”, or “Democrat versus Republican”, for example. Only movements that cast aside such empty labels and concern themselves with the ultimate truth of their country, regardless of what that truth might reveal, are able to enact real solutions to the disasters wrought by tyranny.

In more advanced forms of despotism, even fake organizations are disbanded. Curfews are enforced. Normal communications are diminished or monitored. Compulsory paperwork is required. Checkpoints are instituted. Free speech is punished. Existing groups are influenced to distrust each other or to disintegrate entirely out of dread of being discovered. All of these measures are taken by tyrants primarily to prevent ANY citizens from gathering and finding mutual support. People who work together and organize of their own volition are unpredictable, and therefore, a potential risk to the state.

Rule #3: Keep Them Desperate

You’ll find in nearly every instance of cultural descent into autocracy, the offending government gained favor after the onset of economic collapse. Make the necessities of root survival an uncertainty, and people without knowledge of self sustainability and without solid core principles will gladly hand over their freedom, even for mere scraps from the tables of the same men who unleashed famine upon them. Financial calamities are not dangerous because of the poverty they leave in their wake; they are dangerous because of the doors to malevolence that they leave open.

Destitution leads not just to hunger, but also to crime (private and government). Crime leads to anger, hatred, and fear. Fear leads to desperation. Desperation leads to the acceptance of anything resembling a solution, even despotism.

Autocracies pretend to cut through the dilemmas of economic dysfunction (usually while demanding liberties be relinquished), however, behind the scenes they actually seek to maintain a proscribed level of indigence and deprivation. The constant peril of homelessness and starvation keeps the masses thoroughly distracted from such things as protest or dissent, while simultaneously chaining them to the idea that their only chance is to cling to the very government out to end them.

Rule #4: Send Out The Jackboots

This is the main symptom often associated with totalitarianism. So much so that our preconceived notions of what a fascist government looks like prevent us from seeing other forms of tyranny right under our noses. Some Americans believe that if the jackbooted thugs are not knocking on every door, then we MUST still live in a free country. Obviously, this is a rather naïve position. Admittedly, though, goon squads and secret police do eventually become prominent in every failed nation, usually while the public is mesmerized by visions of war, depression, hyperinflation, terrorism, etc.

When law enforcement officials are no longer servants of the people, but agents of a government concerned only with its own supremacy, serious crises emerge. Checks and balances are removed. The guidelines that once reigned in police disappear, and suddenly, a philosophy of superiority emerges; an arrogant exclusivity that breeds separation between law enforcement and the rest of the public. Finally, police no longer see themselves as protectors of citizens, but prison guards out to keep us subdued and docile.

As tyranny grows, this behavior is encouraged. Good men are filtered out of the system, and small (minded and hearted) men are promoted.

At its pinnacle, a police state will hide the identities of most of its agents and officers, behind masks or behind red tape, because their crimes in the name of the state become so numerous and so sadistic that personal vengeance on the part of their victims will become a daily concern.

Rule #5: Blame Everything On The Truth Seekers

Tyrants are generally men who have squelched their own consciences. They have no reservations in using any means at their disposal to wipe out opposition. But, in the early stages of their ascent to power, they must give the populace a reason for their ruthlessness, or risk being exposed, and instigating even more dissent. The propaganda machine thus goes into overdrive, and any person or group that dares to question the authority or the validity of the state is demonized in the minds of the masses.

All disasters, all violent crimes, all the ills of the world, are hoisted upon the shoulders of activist groups and political rivals. They are falsely associated with fringe elements already disliked by society (racists, terrorists, etc). A bogus consensus is created through puppet media in an attempt to make the public believe that “everyone else” must have the same exact views, and those who express contrary positions must be “crazy”, or “extremist”. Events are even engineered by the corrupt system and pinned on those demanding transparency and liberty. The goal is to drive anti-totalitarian organizations into self censorship. That is to say, instead of silencing them directly, the state causes activists to silence themselves.

Tyrannical power structures cannot function without scapegoats. There must always be an elusive boogie man under the bed of every citizen, otherwise, those citizens may turn their attention, and their anger, towards the real culprit behind their troubles. By scapegoating stewards of the truth, such governments are able to kill two birds with one stone.

Rule #6: Encourage Citizen Spies

Ultimately, the life of a totalitarian government is not prolonged by the government itself, but by the very people it subjugates. Citizen spies are the glue of any police state, and our propensity for sticking our noses into other peoples business is highly valued by Big Brother bureaucracies around the globe.

There are a number of reasons why people participate in this repulsive activity. Some are addicted to the feeling of being a part of the collective, and “service” to this collective, sadly, is the only way they are able to give their pathetic lives meaning. Some are vindictive, cold, and soulless, and actually get enjoyment from ruining others. And still, like elites, some long for power, even petty power, and are willing to do anything to fulfill their vile need to dictate the destinies of perfect strangers.

Citizen spying is almost always branded as a civic duty; an act of heroism and bravery. Citizen spies are offered accolades and awards, and showered with praise from the upper echelons of their communities. People who lean towards citizen spying are often outwardly and inwardly unimpressive; physically and mentally inept. For the average moral and emotional weakling with persistent feelings of inadequacy, the allure of finally being given fifteen minutes of fame and a hero’s status (even if that status is based on a lie) is simply too much to resist. They begin to see “extremists” and “terrorists” everywhere. Soon, people afraid of open ears everywhere start to watch what they say at the supermarket, in their own backyards, or even to family members. Free speech is effectively neutralized.

Rule #7: Make Them Accept The Unacceptable

In the end, it is not enough for a government fueled by the putrid sludge of iniquity to lord over us. At some point, it must also influence us to forsake our most valued principles. Tyrannies are less concerned with dominating how we live, so much as dominating how we think. If they can mold our very morality, they can exist unopposed indefinitely. Of course, the elements of conscience are inborn, and not subject to environmental duress as long as a man is self aware. However, conscience can be manipulated if a person has no sense of identity, and has never put in the effort to explore his own strengths and failings. There are many people like this in America today.

Lies become “necessary” in protecting the safety of the state. War becomes a tool for “peace”. Torture becomes an ugly but “useful” method for gleaning important information. Police brutality is sold as a “natural reaction” to increased crime. Rendition becomes normal, but only for those labeled as “terrorists”. Assassination is justified as a means for “saving lives”. Genocide is done discretely, but most everyone knows it is taking place. They simply don’t discuss it.

All tyrannical systems depend on the apathy and moral relativism of the inhabitants within their borders. Without the cooperation of the public, these systems cannot function. The real question is, how many of the above steps will be taken before we finally refuse to conform? At what point will each man and woman decide to break free from the dark path blazed before us and take measures to ensure their independence? Who will have the courage to develop their own communities, their own alternative economies, their own organizations for mutual defense outside of establishment constructs, and who will break under the pressure to bow like cowards? How many will hold the line, and how many will flee?

For every American, for every human being across the planet who chooses to stand immovable in the face of the very worst in mankind, we come that much closer to breathing life once again into the very best in us all.


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Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:05 | 1505739 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

keep them under submission.

easily done with religion.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:29 | 1505839 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Little do you know how right you are:

Tis a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy, especially in the case of Iran:

Fortunately, God's a step ahead of man.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:03 | 1506222 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Jesus is coming back with the God of Iran!


I never knew that Iran considered Jesus a Holy Man that would be traveling with their God to unite the World in Peace.. that is something that CNN / CNBC and / or other will NOT! be letting the America Public know! for all of you that think I am kidding becuase I more often than not do kids around.. this is really what the People (majority) beleive.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 18:24 | 1506639 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

It's amazing what you can discover simply by doing a little bit of research instead of blindly accepting "what everyone knows to be true".


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:05 | 1505985 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You mean to say Organized Religion. Read some Nietzsche. He covered the topic very well. It's Organized Religion that put's people into the scope of being controllable.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:16 | 1506039 piceridu
piceridu's picture

Read some Thomas Paine

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:55 | 1506187 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Abraham Lincoln believed that assassinating a leader is morally justified when a people has suffered under a tyrant for an extended period of time and has exhausted all legal and peaceful means of ouster

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:06 | 1506232 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

He was a Godly man.  And God condoned - in fact ordered - the same on several occasions throughout the Scriptures.  See, e.g. 1 Samuel 15, where Saul loses favor with God for NOT annihilating all of the Amalekites as directed.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:01 | 1506442 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Man's law and god's law are not compatible. Secular state law is the only way out. If we act according to God's law than we admit it is superior to our laws; which means that the Salafist charia and fundamentalist christian doctrine, the type that killed the infidel without fair trial for valid reasons, the kind that burnt the heretic similarly, takes prescience over Solon's laws and their heritage. This was the basis of theocratic rule proposed by the popes, now by the Ayatollahs and Salafists. 

Regression, negation of our civilization, where to know how to seek truth is our essence, not what that truth is according to preconcieved notions, but based on fact and logic, irrespective of age old custom or ingrained prejudice. 

So keep Saul out of the argument and assassination of tyrants a thing to be proscribed if the people have faith in their power, in their republic.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:16 | 1506492 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

The USSR and Nazi Germany were full of secular laws. China has secular laws. 

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 21:49 | 1507083 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Yeah, theocrazies are renowned for their civilized behavior towards those moving to the beat of another drum. (sarc)

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:08 | 1506243 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

ALL of you professing that you have no belief in the Holy Bible and / or God are just scared that Home Land Security will kick your door in.. You can believe in the Bible or you can belive in the Constitution of the United States of America.. but if you believe in BOTH! You are a Home Grown Terrorist!


I understand why you cant say You Love God! its ok.. God knows you are scared of the Home Land Security People kicking in your door!

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:55 | 1506427 Sledge
Sledge's picture





Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:08 | 1506463 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

America's Founding Documents


The Magna Carta

The Mayflower Compact

The Declaration of Independence

The Constitution of the United States of America

The Bill of Rights

The Federalist Papers

The Anti-Federalist Papers

The American Creed

Washington's Farewell Address

The Gettysburg Address


I am downloading copies of everything! I am then going to print out copies and maybe have some other copies made to pass around!

Home Grown Terrorist! Passing out copies of the Constitution! PLUS! PLUS!! PLUS!!! WOW! someone call crime stoppers and collect the reward! Hurry!

I may pass out Bibles at the same time! but I dont want to send the NSA / FBI over the edge! they may have to order a shoot on site for me if I keep this up!


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:18 | 1506496 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

I may pass out Bibles at the same time! 


You better scratch that. I believe that people seen to be on the religious right would be considered possible terrorists by Mr Napolitano. In government we trust.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:20 | 1506498 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

While passing out copies of the Constitution and the Bible.. I was thinking I would as well pass out these.. (to law enforcement / Nazi PIGS)

***** "A Department of Homeland Security (DHS) intelligence assessment was published to the Internet this week, warning that opposition to federal government policies could foment a resurgence of "rightwing extremism." The DHS report is the latest indication that many law enforcement agencies regard advocacy groups as intelligence targets and lawful political dissent as a potential sign of terrorism." *****

***** "

This is at least the fourth time in three months that government domestic intelligence reports have been leaked to the public. Earlier this month, a report entitled "The 2009 Terrorism Threat Assessment" leaked from the Virginia Fusion Center to the Internet. The Virginia Fusion Center's report lists a wide variety of groups (of which many are clearly associated with terrorism, but many others have terrorism connections that are speculative or nonexistent) and uniformly recommends that law enforcement investigate the groups and their affiliates. The Virginia report comes on the heels of a report leaked from the North Central Texas Fusion Center in February, and yet another from the Missouri Information Analysis Center in March. The Missouri and Texas reports have already been roundly criticized and retracted. None of these reports indicate a specific threat, just a never-ending array of potential hazards that are "likely to grow in strength." *****

Most of the links above are to the Home Land Nazi Hand Books that describe the Home Grown Terrorists.. like the guy in Norway who hated Muslims.. so he killed Christians and Christian Children.. becuase he hated Muslims.. Yeah, thats what happened.. more like.. this! Happened!! "Jews will be at the Center leading role of Multi cultrism or Europe will be destroyed / not survive" says her!

You hear that whitey! the jews are coming for you!



Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:24 | 1506513 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Multiculturalism has Failed in Europe - And that's Official !

British PM: Multiculturalism has failed David Cameron’s remarks on West's policy draw fire from Muslim community

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 18:02 | 1506595 HarryHaller
HarryHaller's picture


"I am then going to print out copies and maybe have some other copies made to pass around!"


In 1923 Upton Sinclair read the Bill of Rights in public as a protest and was summarily arrested.  The arresting offcier was quoted as saying "We'll have none of that Consitution stuff"...

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 18:02 | 1506596 HarryHaller
HarryHaller's picture


"I am then going to print out copies and maybe have some other copies made to pass around!"


In 1923 Upton Sinclair read the Bill of Rights in public as a protest and was summarily arrested.  The arresting offcier was quoted as saying "We'll have none of that Consitution stuff"...

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:11 | 1506474 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Hello? This guy writes an excellent article about citizenship and the comments are about religion? I don't get it....

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:19 | 1506499 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

All it takes is one douchebag to get it started

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 19:04 | 1506751 windcatcher
windcatcher's picture

In reply to Ghordius: 

This is exactly the diversion in thought and attention to the real world that the author is describing. The shallow discussion has turned away from the real issues to religion because the readers are afraid of discussing the real issues of tyranny that is starring them in the face.


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 21:52 | 1507087 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Historically religion and tyranny go hand in hand.

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 07:22 | 1507462 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Organized religion is tyranny.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:48 | 1506575 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

Being anti-religion is in vogue today.Which is a shame, on multiple levels.Yet the rampant criminality of Wall St and the Gov continues apace.One has to organized religion worse than the scumbags currently looting the planet...probably not.Pol-Pot,Stalin and Mao killed more people together than any religion ever has.Organized religion isn't the problem...Evil is.And it's relentless minions.And yes, it has also infected organized religion.One has only to look at the fruit to discern the actor's intent.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:28 | 1506526 Sledge
Sledge's picture



  Religion is not the same as having a relationship with God. Jesus said if you want to pray go into a closet. What I think He meant was you don't need a church, mosque, or synagogue; anywhere will do if you BELIEVE.  No Golden Mosque, or tall white castle in the sky church will bring you closer to God. You are getting lost in edifices, a pope or imman, not God. If you can't find God in a flower or blade of grass or in the eyes of a fellow human being than you are lost. If you are lost you will search for someone to lead you. That's how religion gets you. Once you give up that personal light speed connection to God and replace it with  a middle man you are subject to deception and political influences of the state.
  I TOTALLY understand how people hate religion. It has been used throughout history to kill brothers and sisters and spread hatred throughout the world. I could give a rat's ass what a "religious leader" has to say about that. I know that God would not approve and boy will these hypocrites pay!!! There is one God and the people of Earth are His children. To the degree which you do not understand this, we ALL will suffer.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 19:19 | 1506794 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Great post, Sledge.

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 05:52 | 1507430 falak pema
falak pema's picture

That is spirituality and subjective vision of it. A man, his beliefs and his vision of eternal perfection. That has always existed and even Aristotle addressed it in his Metaphysics.

That has nothing to do with the religious creed, source of ideological tyranny, religious dogma that effectively says "you are with us or against us" the hegemonic mantra expressed in terms of ideology.

When there is a church, a Pope, to decide for the people and a multinational organistion to implement it, it is totalitarian in nature and has been since the Gregorian reforms and 'dictatus papae' in Occidental lands.  

Spirituality yes! One to one with God and free individual will, yes! But not a Pope, holy intermediary with the eternal. Not a clergy who decides who gets burnt at the stake.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:13 | 1506015 akak
akak's picture

Exactly, Ahmeexnal!

I am always struck, even here on ZeroHedge, by how many can see through the absurdities and lies of statist mythology, even while fervently defending the absurdities and lies of religious mythology.  Both are just tools of social (and sociopathic) control, most especially the malignant monotheisms of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

If Jeebus REALLY existed as portrayed in the Bible (which I doubt), I would have gladly hammered the nails into the cross myself.

Free yourself from the absurdity of religion!

Meanwhile, junk away Christo-fascists!

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:20 | 1506056 cpnscarlet
cpnscarlet's picture

Too bad you and others have not learned the difference between religion and spirituality. His name is JESUS and you nailing him to the cross would not have changed the result of His sacrifice.

May God have mercy on your soul.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:26 | 1506077 akak
akak's picture

I am fully aware of the difference between religion and spirituality, and I find precious little of the latter in the former, at least in the outrageously socially and morally destructive, perverted and twisted monotheistic religions.  More people have been killed in the name of Jahweh, Jesus and Allah/Mohammed than have been otherwise killed in all the wars throughout history.  To deny that Christianity, Judaism and Islam are finely-engineered tools of social and political control is to deny reality itself.  Christianity as practiced and believed today would have been considered a gross perversion to any first or second-century AD Christian, and with good reason.

But keep desperately and pathetically clutching your insane mythology if it makes you feel better.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:29 | 1506085 cpnscarlet
cpnscarlet's picture

Heard it all before, thanks.

Jesus Saves. Or is that to clutchy, pathetic, or insane for you?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:41 | 1506123 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

Which Jesus? the gnostic one, the catholic one, the protestant one? the metaphorical one, or the historicist one? they are all different, with widely varying practical implications.

And I guess the Jews and Muslims are just out of luck, eh. Not to mention the millions of buddhists, hindus, and others.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:47 | 1506144 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Why do you care what Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists believe? It's none of your business. 

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:52 | 1506167 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

you forgot the gay jesus

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:28 | 1506312 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

And the Buddy Christ

Like cigarettes, you gotta "hook 'em while they're young."

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:45 | 1506385 piceridu
piceridu's picture

How about Brian?

Brian: I'm not the Messiah! Will you please listen? I am not the Messiah, do you understand? Honestly! 
Girl: Only the true Messiah denies His divinity. 
Brian: What? Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right! I am the Messiah! 
Followers: He is! He is the Messiah! 
Brian: Now, fuck off! 
Arthur: How shall we fuck off, O Lord? 

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:21 | 1506503 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

I worked with the gay Jesus when I was in high school. He was the busboy. I think his last name was Lopez. Are you looking for him?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:51 | 1506165 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture


There is only one Jesus.  The variants exist from perversions of the Scriptures or people that leverage the Scriptures for power by withholding information (that's what happened for the first 10 centuries AD). 

READ the Bible and then decide for yourself.  That will also answer your inquiry as to the Jews, Muslims, etc...

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:20 | 1506284 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Yeah, no cross referencing allowed. In fact, ignore everything else altogether.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:24 | 1506298 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Cross reference all you want.  Read and study everything.  But if you don't know what the Bible says, don't pretend you do.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:26 | 1506306 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Exactly. So, which version do you wanna play with?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:37 | 1506350 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Why don't you start with a point, instead of an empty inference, and we can discuss it.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 18:11 | 1506612 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

NP. I mean, I can understand your fascination with the bible (St.James' I'm guessing, you seem like a monoglot, New Testament kinda guy) but personally, when it comes to magic and fairytales, I prefer "The Two Towers" best; though admittedly some (goldbugs mostly) say that you can find deeper meaning in "The Philosopher's Stone". On the other hand, "The Fellowship of the Ring" introduces a nice contrast of good vs evil and it's here where we first encounter some original sin in the Gollum character ("Evil oft mars itself" and all that cal). But nothing beats the wealth of magic and miracles found in "The Goblet of Fire"...

Anyway, it's all here in Marcus Brigstocke's work:

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 18:31 | 1506666 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

How can you understand my fascination with something you've never yourself read?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 18:55 | 1506727 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Heh, you're making assumptions about things you yourself don't know, again.


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 19:22 | 1506799 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

So you've read the Bible cover to cover (pick a version), and have rejected it?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 23:14 | 1507092 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Do I stutter or something?

No, I don't wholly reject it.

The 'jesus' character is a gravely misinterpreted secular humanist. If he was a real person he was probably forced to at least pretend to adopt some of the doctrinal superstitions of the day, if he wanted anyone to take him seriously.

A recurring theme, the basic tenet at the heart of practically every religion is the 'treating of others as you yourself would like to be treated'.

I don't have a problem with that at all. But like Kropotkin says: practicing that doesn't require everyone to believe in some supernatural paternalistic unicorn overseeing all of existence (paraphrased, as I have no Russian).

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 10:49 | 1507613 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

No I don't wholly reject it...If he was a real person he was probably forced to at least pretend to adopt some of the doctrinal superstitions of the day, if he wanted anyone to take him seriously.

If you do not accept Jesus as a real person, how is it that you do not wholly reject Christianity?  And BTW, the accounts of His life are pretty clear that He rejected the doctrinal superstitions of the day that were being imposed on people (i.e., "organized religion").

A recurring theme, the basic tenet at the heart of practically every religion is the 'treating of others as you yourself would like to be treated'.

Basic tenet of Christianity: we are each broken and enslaved to sin and unable to save ourselves from its consequences.  But God in His mercy saved us from that fate through Jesus.  Subordinately, is our response to love thy neighbor.  We are incapable of doing so absent God's mercy. 

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 14:40 | 1507849 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

"If you do not accept Jesus as a real person, how is it that you do not wholly reject Christianity? "

By your own arguments jesus wasn't/isn't a 'real person' anyway, he was/is a 'supernatural'. But that's just me showing you that I can quibble over gold leaf distinctions too. I can see how to a zealot someone not accepting any single piece of dogma as unquestionable fact automatically qualifies the offender as a blaspheming heretic, but from my perspective that's throwing the baby out with the baptismal bathwater.

"...the accounts of His life are pretty clear that He rejected the doctrinal superstitions of the day.."

Right, but that certainly doesn't negate the possibility that jesus feigned some of the more tightly held beliefs as a way to remain credible to his audience, as I said. Also, from a marketing standpoint, the anodyne of eternal paradise is a much better hook than the 'bane of mortal man' being offered by some other religions of that era.

"Basic tenet of Christianity: we are each broken and enslaved to sin and unable to save ourselves from its consequences. But God in His mercy saved us from that fate through Jesus. Subordinately, is our response to love thy neighbor. We are incapable of doing so absent God's mercy."

And here is where we arrive at my essential point: the dogma of the first two and last sentences is superfluous,  self promoting, and untrue. The sentiment of 'loving thy neighbour' is something inherent in humans and necessary for the success of all social beings, which is why it is the key tenet of such a large cross section of belief systems the world over and not exclusive to Christianity.  IE We are NOT born 'evil', we are taught that.

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 15:08 | 1508048 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

IE We are NOT born 'evil', we are taught that.

That belief explains a lot of your perspective.  I wonder how you would prove that assertion.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 18:46 | 1506707 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Exactly. So, which version do you wanna play with?

Perhaps the Jefferson Bible would be a good place to start. It seems like it would be the most likely place for you both to find some common ground. Also, because it is in the public domain, it can be found in its entirety on the internet.

Just tryin' to help.


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 22:50 | 1506733 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Thanks TFS; that's just fine with me.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:48 | 1506149 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture


They are my favourite Christian Rock of the Ages:

"Listen up you stinkin' maggots, It seems you just don't get it. Well, I've been appointed to inform you: Your days are numbered. You would crawl, You would scream, If you knew half the things I've seen. Please, please, just do as I say: repent and leave your evil ways. Meanwhile..."

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:32 | 1506329 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

Jesus Saves.

Actually no. 

People save themselves.  Jesus merely tells them how.  ...and most professing "christians" ignore it  ...which means they're lost Jesus also said.

If Jesus came back today He would condemn today's Christianity, in all its various divisions, sects,  etc.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:21 | 1506505 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

JC would say " nice pic"?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 18:50 | 1506715 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

If Jesus came back today He would condemn today's Christianity, in all its various divisions, sects,  etc.

...after which He would be branded a terrorist, placed in shackles, and placed on a special rendition flight to Guantanamo.


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 19:09 | 1506764 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Well, he was considered an enemy of the state.

According to Jello Biafra and NoMeansNo, "Jesus was a Terrorist"

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:38 | 1506112 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Don't blame Jesus for the myth. He was just doing His job. :)

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:54 | 1506180 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Jesus never held a job.

But boy did he start one hell of a racket.


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:04 | 1506225 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

+1 for capitalizing His name this time, even if only to begin a sentence.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:50 | 1506411 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Lies make baby jesus cry, so I gave him a green triangle up for you to save your soul. The first Indulgence is free, but you have to buy a golden coloured papal coin if you want the next one. If you have a hard time finding one you can get them from vending machines in Notre Dame.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 18:29 | 1506659 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Give to the papacy what is the papacy's, and to God what is God's. 

Knowing the difference: priceless.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 18:50 | 1506714 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Yes, you are.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 18:51 | 1506720 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Good retort.  What are you, nine?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 19:43 | 1506744 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

I'm old enough not to believe in fairy tales. What's your excuse?

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 00:48 | 1507292 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Well, since you're NOT stabbing/shooting all those that disagree with you (as far as I know), you must therefore be following some ethical/moral guidelines, even if you only arrived at them via logic.  Therefore, alleviate some suffering (else, why are you here?):

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:38 | 1506113 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Christianity as practiced and believed today would have been considered a gross perversion to any first or second-century AD Christian, and with good reason.

Christianity is not "practiced" today under a uniform doctrine, liturgy, etc.  So I don't know how you can make such a broad-brush statement.  And what I term "true" Christianity still exists and has not changed a whole lot. 

The Constitution still ranks #2 as the document most assaulted by those who haven't read or understood it.  The Bible, of course, is #1.

Tue, 08/02/2011 - 19:40 | 1518950 BigJim
BigJim's picture

And how about the Koran? Where does that rank in the list of most assaulted documents?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:40 | 1506121 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

first or second-century AD Christian

Why did you need to put "AD" in there?  You think there were a lot of first or second BC Christians?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:42 | 1506128 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

christianity arose out of traditions and beliefs that predated the christ figure. the name was new, the religion was not.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:48 | 1506145 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Tell me, what pre-dated the "Christ figure"?  When did the "Christ figure" first appear in the Scriptures?  (Hint: you will get this answer wrong.)

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:24 | 1506301 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

No you've got the whole thing wrong. The 'Christ figure' was around long before 'the scriptures'.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:32 | 1506319 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Just lookin' to be a pest, ay GF?  Yes, Christ was around before the Scriptures - thus my question #1.  Question #2 is a different question (when was He first mentioned in the Scriptures).

I don't have it wrong, sir.  I understand it quite well, and I'm happy to share as much of that understanding as you might like.

And thanks for ID-ing yourself as my junker.  :D

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:31 | 1506321 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

 “I am the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.”

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:46 | 1506141 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

More people have been killed in the name of Jahweh, Jesus and Allah/Mohammed than have been otherwise killed in all the wars throughout history. 


That's a line of bullshit. Every war has been over power and wealth. The rulers will use religion as an excuse in some wars, but the reality is the struggle for power causes violence. WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Civil War, etc - none were religious. 

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 18:02 | 1506594 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Thank You.. I'm so fucking sick of hearing that wars are about religion.. What a crock of shit.. I would only add Land (resources) to your contention.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:45 | 1506140 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture


I would be eternally shocked if you can relate to us how Jesus is portrayed in the Bible.  Tell me how He's portrayed in Psalm 22?  Zecharaiah 9?  Isaiah 53?  Genesis 3?  Micah 3?  Daniel 7?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:32 | 1506325 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

You tell us first and I'll contrad...critique it. But first I wanna know what jesus was like when he was 22 years old.

Aaaaaaand GO!

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:38 | 1506355 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

He was never 22 years old.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 18:20 | 1506627 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Can you elaborate? (This should be good)

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 19:03 | 1506746 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Jesus sprach zu ihnen: Wahrlich, wahrlich ich sage euch: Ehe denn Abraham ward, bin ich.(John 8:58)

Ich bin das A und das O, der Anfang und das Ende, der Erste und der Letzte. (Revelation 22:13)

Im Anfang war das Wort, und das Wort war bei Gott, und Gott war das Wort.   Dasselbe war im Anfang bei Gott.  Alle Dinge sind durch dasselbe gemacht, und ohne dasselbe ist nichts gemacht, was gemacht ist.  In ihm war das Leben, und das Leben war das Licht der Menschen.  (John 1: 1-4)




Fri, 07/29/2011 - 19:19 | 1506783 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Oh brother. Fine then, I'll rephrase it: Twenty three years after the immaculate conception, what was he up to?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 19:27 | 1506816 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

So you know (since you don't) the Immaculate Conception refers to the Roman Catholic dogmatic belief as to the conception of Mary, not the conception of Jesus.

But since you're asking what was Jesus doing in teh 22nd year of his incarnate, earthly, post-Mary-birth life, the answer is I don't know. 

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 02:15 | 1507314 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Nuance; 'virginal' conception then. Though I'm sure all cross-worshippers regardless of denomination consider this magical event 'perfect', which is synonymous with 'immaculate' last time I checked.

 Sheesh. Getting a point across to you is like trying to stuff a marshmallow into a coin slot.

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 08:23 | 1507492 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

I got your point.  You don't believe Jesus is anything other than a fictional character and/or representation of the prevailing belief system at the time (or some later time when He was written about).

I don't subscribe to that belief system (obviously). 

My pointing out of your arguably minor imprecisions is to call into question what it is that drives your belief system.  Those "nuances" are the source of a great degree of misunderstanding about what the Bible actually says, and what many believe it says.

Anyone has free will to read freely the Scriptures, study them in due course with the balance of literature, studies, etc. that are out there, and decide what they believe is true.  I'm not convinced you've done that, but you are correct that it's not for me to say.

All I defend is that people actually start with a true and earnest reading of the Scriptures and not rely on second hand accounts.  Notwithstanding the Immaculate Conception myth that the papacy pushes, I would wager that most believe the following, none of which are Biblically accurate:

1) There were 3 wise men

2) Jonah was swallowed by a whale

3) Adam and Eve ate an apple in the Garden of Eden

4) Two of each animal went into Noah's ark

5) Jesus had no siblings

If these most basic, kindergarten-storytime things are misconstrued, then what does that say about whatpeople basing their understanding of the Bible on? 

That's all.

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 03:36 | 1507390 inkarri9
inkarri9's picture

Thank you very much for staying true to our faith. Just as it is written in the Bible, people have lost their way and turned away from the truth. Let's pray for them so that their eyes can be opened one day and they see the truth before it's too late. May G-d bless you and everyone!

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 08:36 | 1507500 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.  At that time, many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.  Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.  And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world, as a testimony to all nations...  (Matthew 24:9-14)

Keep the faith!

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:42 | 1506127 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Yes, because the USSR was based on religion

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:33 | 1506334 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

No, fear, exactly like any of the three Abrahamics.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:01 | 1506218 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

easily done with religion.

With false religion to those who have rejected the Truth.  Those who know God will not fall prey to false doctrine.

For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.  (2 Thessalonians 10-11)

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:42 | 1506370 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Speaking of 'truth', 'reality', and 'facts': Historically speaking, what species of dinosaur was jesus' favourite mount?


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 20:55 | 1506973 Kelley
Kelley's picture

"keep them under submission.


easily done with religion."

You do realize that athiests killed 50 million people in the last century, don't you? 


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 23:06 | 1507178 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Yeah, the Democrats are all about religion.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:06 | 1505743 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Who would have thought that a bald headed Jew with an imaginary printing press and a Kenyan born puppet teleprompter reader could manufacture the opinion of the U.S. citizenry so easily...

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:10 | 1505762 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

and who would be most to blame?

the master of puppets or the millions of lazy fat sheep who have allowed things to get where they are?

blaming someone else is always easy. history is full of examples.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:21 | 1505802 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

in a way, i have to agree.  it takes two to tango. they offered and we accepted. we are our own worst enemies.  so what now?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:31 | 1505851 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

The hardest part about the zombie apoacalypse, is waiting for it to happen.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:47 | 1505910 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

I don't mind the delay so much anymore.  It just gives me more time to prepare.  "Fortuna Favet Paratus!"  We all jest about a zombie horde, but a starving urban population will be just that.  Desperate people do desperate things.

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 12:15 | 1507760 Dental Floss Tycoon
Dental Floss Tycoon's picture

papaswamp said: "The hardest part about the zombie apoacalypse, is waiting for it to happen."

It is happening now.  The zombies are all around you.  Wake up before its too late.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:48 | 1505912 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

If the masses are 'led into temptation' then they are 'delivered to evil'.  That's why the Lord's prayer reads as it does.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:49 | 1506153 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

We didn't all accept. All it takes is 50.0000000000000000000000000000000001% and the other 49.99999999999999999999999999999999% get screwed too. In the case of the 2008 elections, we would be screwed either way

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:10 | 1506250 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Skull and Bones either way? there was no difference then.. there is no difference now..

Remocrats are ALL Lobby Whores!

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 22:18 | 1506826 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Ralph Nader has been an option since 1996.

And the probable answer to one question should have been directing every American's vote since then: Do you think RN would have bailed out the banks in 2008, like both the Demoblicans and the Republocrats did?

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:31 | 1505849 Whatta
Whatta's picture

I kind of see suburban lifestyle to blame. Citizens scattered and not communicating with one another rather than piled in on top of one another. And in the suburbs you are insulated from just go to the soccer field, walk the trails, etc....and all the bad goes away.

As I always like to say - until the US can at least turn out a decent soccer hooligan - we are without hope of revolution.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:45 | 1505898 johnny2time
johnny2time's picture

"Citizens scattered and not communicating with one another rather than piled in on top of one another."


Wow, it's as if the useful idiots aren't even trying to portray an idealistic utopia anymore.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:50 | 1505920 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

God, how I hate those suburban dwellers and all of their individual thinking.  If only we all lived in Soviet style communes, we'd better understand how to help our fellow humans.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:14 | 1506264 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Stop the checks for two weeks, cut off tobacco and alchohol you will see hooligans that will give you nightmares..  If the PTB can keep the balls in air good for them.  They will not be able to do it forever.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 18:09 | 1506604 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Having tried most lifestyles, I've found that the more dense the people, the less they get together.  You wind up living near a bunch of asshats and parasites in a city, to the point where you don't dare make friends with your immediate neighbors - they are likely to be parasites you'll have to shake.  Surburbia, there's no reason to be friends with your neigbors and plenty of reasons to complain about them near the fencelines - look where all those fight-to-the-death lawsuits come from.  In both those other places, you make friends you don't live too near to - from work, church, hobby groups, whatever.  No neighborhood.

Now I live out in the far boonies, everyone is so far apart we have to make an effort to get together, but we do - it's lonely if you don't.  As go humans, the diamond to turd ratio here is far higher, and there's a reason for that.  No easy access to entitlements - if you need help, it's going to be coming from your neighbors.  If you're a prick, you're not going to be getting much help pulling you out of any trouble you make for yourself, or nature makes for you.  So, you move to the city - which is full of like minded pricks doing the dog eat dog thing.

Where I live, we do the friend helps friend thing.  When someone thought to start a neighborhood watch we all laughed.  We had it already informally, and far slicker in operation than the official type.  Call it the LOL gossip network (little old lady in this case).  We know and will notice if someone who doesn't belong there is standing by the door with a crowbar, or backing up a truck to take possesions, and as we're pretty much all armed, everyone is polite, and criminals choose to ply their trade elsewhere -- or they experience a Darwin award -- either way, they don't make trouble for us.

I had a great job in DC working for the 3 letter agencies.  I experienced some hardship to move out here and learn to homestead.  It was worth it.  I'll never willingly go back there or any large city again.  Nature is beautiful, and I don't get that in the city, I just get the smell of piss and antifreeze mixed with burning rubber, and the vibe of a bunch of stressed out evil people mostly scheming on how to get theirs by taking it from someone else, not creating something of value.  You can keep that crap!


Sat, 07/30/2011 - 13:18 | 1507880 Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

EXCELLENT comment, thanks for sharing.  I recently left the Beltway for a more rural setting....and you're right, it's different - and better - out here.  I miss my friends, but I doubt I'll ever return.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 17:37 | 1506548 madbomber
madbomber's picture    (RED ELK SPEAKS)

Christian scipture prevents most of this situation.   this video isnt gay conspiracy its simple truth.  im destined for hell, but I still believe in Jesus.

so im not selling anything.   it is the most accurate doctrine I've found, that simple.   CALM DOWN.










Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:43 | 1505890 j0nx
j0nx's picture

As a kid I used to wonder why 6 million jews allowed themselves to be marched into the ovens by a handful of Germans in the camps without at least fighting back and rushing the Germans en masse to try and overwhelm the camp guards. I don't wonder about this any more as I see exactly how that happened then and will probably happen again. Most people are docile and allow themselves to be herded easily for things like this clinging on to a small sliver of hope that maybe things aren't as bad as they appear. They also don't want to be the first to die because they know that if they rush the oppressor that they will certainly die but if they don't then they have this insane idea that they might live. Hope is the enemy of action. Lose all hope and you are capable of anything. Until that happens then people will always willingly walk to their doom.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:59 | 1505937 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Which is of course why fascist governments always move in baby steps.  Human psychology is quite depressing when you really think about it.  Most people are hard coded with herd mentality, as you explained already above, and they think up until the very end, "As long as I do X, I will be okay."  This reminds me of my ex.  She was driving once, and the headlights passed over a man on the ground being kicked.  I had to shout "stop the car," after two more polite commands, just to get her to stop.  She saw what I saw, but that good ole' protection psychology had kicked in for her.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:02 | 1505969 TomGa
TomGa's picture

"Hope is the enemy of action."


Absolutely. You're right on the mark. I've argued this as well.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:15 | 1506034 PeeTee
PeeTee's picture

Only after you've lost everything, you're free to do anything... [TD]

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:10 | 1506014 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

You have to read "This way for the gas ladies and gentlemen" by Borowski...its one of the best books ever; he talks extactly about this. The germans had the jews do everything for them, be the security, burn the bodies, give the injections, everything. What we learn from history, and learn from the present are the dangers of being amongst the heard.

I to have no doubt we'll see industrial killing again in europe and in the US too

Keep your wits about you, your options open, always have a get away plan, never trust in the wisdom of the sheep or what you're being told

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:35 | 1506089 piceridu
piceridu's picture

Gun control...wonder no more.

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country." --Adolf Hitler, dinner talk on April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitler's Table Talk 1941-44: His Private Conversations, Second Edition (1973), Pg. 425-426. 


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:53 | 1506171 TomGa
Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:51 | 1506164 pods
pods's picture

I would take up an argument over some of your facts as presented, but that would be illegal in numerous countries.


Fri, 07/29/2011 - 18:21 | 1506631 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Futher, if you're free, the serfs themselves will react negatively toward you.  After all, if you don't need anyone's approval, you're no longer "safe" - you might do anything.  This leads people to think you're going to do the sorts of evil things they think they'd do if they were "free", not understanding the nature of it at all.

Half of them fear you - and frightened people are dangerous.  The other half try to live though you vicariously -- I found this out as a rather minor "rock star" at one point in my life, and it almost killed me with the sex/drugs (always free and the best)/R&R lifestyle your fans "enable" and almost insist you participate in.

Those who think of themselves as being in authority don't like you much at all.  You're not supposed to be able to thumb your nose at them even if you're completely on the right side of the laws and morals.  They feel threatened, and do their best to slam you down.

Try getting a no-knock full press DEA visit, because if you're well off, in the country, and have no job they know of, but do have visitors, you must be a meth lab, not an advanced product development lab doing work for the likes of the famous majors.  Boy, it sure was fun to deal with 10 guys with guns, having our necks stepped on, handcuffs (for our safety), having all my chemistry gear stolen and not returned, having my houses ripped to pieces, and then having drugs planted on me.  Got a good (expensive) lawyer -- and it was all null-prossed and they then worried I'd take it public and sue them as they broke more laws in an hour than I have in my whole life, and on research, found out I'd been a fed myself and at a far higher pay grade than those jack booted (really!) thugs.

And then, they find a crime your wife pulled as a juvenile and use it to take her off the voting roles and take gun rights from a winning competitive shooter.  Yeah, freedom is a piece of cake around here.

I will never give in, kiss ass, kow tow, you name it.  I will pay for that, and have paid for that.  It's still worth it to know you're free, honest, and good.  Since mst people have never been any of those three (and you can't be honest if you don't know the truth!) they are easily led to believe it's not worth it.  Bullshit.  It's worth it.

Sat, 07/30/2011 - 03:19 | 1507381 oldman
oldman's picture


Thanks for the nicest and truest thing I have read in many moons.

it is worth it          om

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:58 | 1505952 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

umm, its amazing how things turn out.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:05 | 1505745 DOT
DOT's picture

I sure wouldn't want to be one of THEM !

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:07 | 1505753 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

but, but, but...the government is here to help me.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:10 | 1505764 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

The old soviet wasn't that bad, people didn't die of hunger and people still could have sex.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:15 | 1505784 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

... and drink lots of vodka, and health care was free, as was housing.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:24 | 1505820 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Housing may have been free, but you didn't get to choose your room-mates.   And there were lots of room-mates.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:24 | 1505821 mp2437
mp2437's picture

housing was only free to those with status or through those days (I'm talking about 50's - 60's), women were the ones who were given apartments, and the men would seek out women with these apartments. If they couldn't find an apartment, they lived like your average Mexican, 9-10 to a one-bedroom apartment, or in the basement.

My grandparents had to sleep in the kitchen of my grandfather's mother's house...try inviting your wife to do that now. :)

As for vodka...the more you drank, the less healthcare you required. Still true.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:22 | 1505807 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

They had cheap vodka too.  Then the vodka started going up.  That's when it all started to unravel.

"They pretended to pay us and we pretended to work."   That would never happen in America. /sarc

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:07 | 1506237 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

There's no pretending to work.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:37 | 1505874 johnny2time
johnny2time's picture

"...people didn't die of hunger"

It's no surprise that this useful idiot never learned (nor could they ever) about the Holodomor.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:24 | 1506067 cpnscarlet
cpnscarlet's picture

I've know many Ukrainians who would disagree about the "...people didn't die of hunger" thing.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:40 | 1505880 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

But they lived in fear of their neighbors.  A culture of secrecy, treachery, and deception developed, and still exists in lesser form today.   Confession is supposed to be a weekly practice before communion in Orthodoxy.  I can imagine, even in the underground churches, that people were afraid to practice this.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:12 | 1506022 caconhma
caconhma's picture

·          Close to 34 million Soviets dies from the government created famine & starvation

·         Another 30 million were slaughtered in concentration/extermination camps

·         ~50 of the entire population (the entire peasant population) did not have passports and could not leave their villages. For all practical purposes, they were slaves.

·         The Soviet state was constantly fighting "enemies of people" and terrorists. Nobody was safe before Stalin was killed (poisoned).

·         The numbers in China under Mao were much more higher

·         I even don’t mention "freedom & happiness" under the Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia



Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:59 | 1506204 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Hey buddy... How about you forget about all those other crimes and concentrate on the 300k (cough.. cough..) I mean 6 million Jews that died.. How dare you... WTF..

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:53 | 1506170 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

I think your sarcasm flew over their heads like an bald eagle

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:11 | 1505769 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Hey Plato called it when he said democracy leads to tyranny.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:40 | 1505883 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Plato would certainly know.  Tyrannies come in many flavors, and a tyranny of an elite is no better than a tyranny of a mob.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:11 | 1505773 Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

The Authoritarians

What makes a good authoritarian leader, and a good authoritarian follower? Well worth reading.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:36 | 1505863 Mr Kurtz
Mr Kurtz's picture

Many Thanks for the read!

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 15:32 | 1506094 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

The single most important lesson to be learned from that work is the write-up on the Milgram experiments.

The author seems to equate 'right wing' with authoritarianism, which is a profound, fundamental mistake, in my view.

They come from all over.

The Milgram experiment demonstrates a much deeper and more disturbing aspect of the human psyche.



Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:15 | 1505776 Smiley
Smiley's picture

Anybody stupid enough to believe any politician's fairy tale deserves death by hard labor. 

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:57 | 1505948 CH1
CH1's picture

Which isn't too different form what they're getting now.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:14 | 1505781 johnny2time
johnny2time's picture

So far the useful idiots have proven themselves quite useless.  Comrade Lenin would be ashamed at today's typical (and to their dismary quite ordinary) SBUX subverter.



Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:49 | 1506405 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

This amazing interview was done back in 1985 with a former KGB agent who was trained in subversion techniques. He explains the 4 basic steps to socially engineering entire generations into thinking and behaving the way those in power want them to. It's shocking because our nation has been transformed in the exact same way, and followed the exact same steps.

Please join the campaign to end this insanity at The Kick Them All Out Project


Fantastic!! Thanks johnny2time !!

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:16 | 1505786 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

I will resurface enough to note that this item is perhaps the most important thing I have ever seen posted on ZH.

And I have been here for 2 years.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:21 | 1505801 DarkAgeAhead
DarkAgeAhead's picture

Agreed this is good stuff.  And not a bad way to run a company either.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:17 | 1505791 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Debt increase or death.

Choose wisely.

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 16:31 | 1506322 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

balanced budget or death


choose wisely

Fri, 07/29/2011 - 14:18 | 1505794 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture
Recognizing Propaganda Techniques

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!