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Guest Post: Forget Broccoli

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by John Aziz of Azizonomics,

Americans are either celebrating or damning the Supreme Court’s 5-4 ruling that the individual mandate is constitutional.

I find it hard to believe that anyone believed that the Supreme Court would rule any other way. Precedent dictates that the Commerce Clause, and Federal powers of taxation are unimpeachable, and have been so since the New Deal. That’s the state of reality, and I found it puzzling that the individual mandate to purchase healthcare might be deemed unconstitutional when the collective mandate to collect taxes to purchase next-to-everything (including both healthcare and broccoli) has been considered constitutional for the best part of a century.

If America wants to overturn current legal norms America needs to elect different politicians. But with a greater and greater welfare-bound population, it seems inevitable that more and more Americans will vote themselves greater and greater quantities of free stuff.

Yet there is a bigger point to all of this, and it’s nothing to do with broccoli.

If Congress can constitutionally create a mandate for individuals to purchase healthcare, then Congress can create a mandate for individuals to purchase financial securities. Which — given the fiscal cliff that we are about to run off, and the reality that more and more sovereigns are dumping dollars and treasuries — could well be a useful weapon in keeping the Treasury’s borrowing costs low and the bread and circuses flowing.

Here are the GAO’s own figures:

With such a humungous load, it will take a lot of (shall we say) financial engineering to keep borrowing costs low.

The purchase of treasury securities is of course something Japan already mandates of financial institutions. Sure — the Fed and the primary dealers can do a lot of the heavy lifting — but what’s stopping Congress from mandating that patriotic Americans with any spare cash dump it into government securities (or even flagging equities)?

One day, Atlas may shrug. Until that day, Congress just acquired a powerful new funding tool.


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Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:23 | 2570102 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I think every American should be mandated to buy me 1 oz of gold.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:26 | 2570110 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Everyone should be mandated to eat their peas in government "hope" camps.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:27 | 2570120 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Bond market collapse move up ahead of schedule with Obamacare.  Get the fuck out of paper.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:37 | 2570177 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

"That’s the state of reality, and I found it puzzling that the individual mandate to purchase healthcare might be deemed unconstitutional when the collective mandate to collect taxes to purchase next-to-everything (including both healthcare and broccoli) has been considered constitutional for the best part of a century."

It's all fucking semantics, or more accurately, Newspeak. Saying it's a tax is bullshit. Since when is a fine a tax? Because it's a fine for noncompliance with the health care insurance system. At least the Kelo decision was more honest, and didn't involve twisting the meaning of language. Kelo said that the government could take your property and give it to another, third private party. That's bullshit, and perverts the idea of Eminent Domain, but at least it didn't redefine one thing as being another thing.

Up is Down, Black is White, and Fines are Taxes, and fuck you if you don't like it, seems to be the message coming down from the Supremes.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:54 | 2570300 centerline
centerline's picture

+1.  Tip of the iceberg.  At least now we know how it will work.  Not surprised though.  Dont forget the fines for not paying your taxes... lol.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:08 | 2570359 mkhs
mkhs's picture

You obviously didn't understand.  It is not a fine, but a tax for not paying your tax.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:16 | 2570407 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

You never give me your money

You only give me your funny paper

and in the middle of negotiations

you break down


Boy, you're gonna carry that weight.

Carry that weight, a long time.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:22 | 2570447 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Author said "If America wants to overturn current legal norms America needs to elect different politicians."

Stated by someone who believes Dems vs Rep is a choice. System is broken. Next option?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:51 | 2570612 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Everything Big Brother Wants


Somebody tell us
(Won't you tell us)
Why we work so hard for you
(To give you money, all to give you money)

Some people work for a living
Gov staff surf porn & retire with 150% pensions
Ergo, the plebes just work for SEC porn and pensions

Rousseau told us the social contract was give and take
Well you've shown us you can take
You've got some non-Squid or EBT giving to do

And now you tell us that health insurance is like GEICO
We'll tell you that we're happy if you want us to
But one step further and broken backs will break some more

If our best isn't good enough
Then how can it be good enough for two
We can't work any harder than we do

Somebody tell us
(Won't you tell us)
Why we work so hard for you

(To give you money, so you can monitor and attack us with Drones)


Somebody tell us
(Won't you tell us)
Why we work so hard for you
(To give you money, all to give you money) (To feed the Squid, all to give you money) (To fluff JP Morgan, all to give you money) (To debase our lifestyle, all to give you money) (To give you money, as you spend it faster)

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:02 | 2570747 CH1
CH1's picture

Next option?

Go Galt and create a new world as you do.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 18:22 | 2571378 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Health insurers have been "going Galt" for decades everytime they deny coverage.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:43 | 2570578 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Get real, 15 years at least to go... No despot creates a slave state without a hope of enjoying the life and death power for a while.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:55 | 2571078 I did it by Occident
I did it by Occident's picture

"No despot creates a slave state without a hope of enjoying the life and death power for a while." 

Yeah, I think if you ask psychiatrists, most if not all pols would fall in the Dark Triad spectrum (Narcissism, Psychopathy, Machiavellianism), despite their assertions that they are 'serving the public good' as if they are scarificing themselves in some moral grand scheme.  Yeah  right serving the public, that's a good one (LMFAO)!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:57 | 2572113 i-dog
i-dog's picture


"15 years at least to go"

Au contraire ... the current blatant feeding frenzy by political and CEO families - to grab whatever they can and mobilize the praetorian guard - is indicative that they fully expect the crash to occur during their own watch ... which is within the current 2-year election cycle, or short period at the helm of a large bank or corporation. There is no "one despot" in charge: there are thousands in the ruling decision posts - all depending on each other and conspiring together in the "steering committees" of a number of co-ordinating organisations.

So long as they expect the crash to occur on the next guy's watch, they'll generally appear to play by the rules and attempt to hide their own graft. But when they sense that the ship is going down on their own watch, they throw caution to the winds and blatantly grab whatever they can while the getting is good.

The SCOTUS coming out against the Constitution in order to sanction more taxes is yet one more recent if the blatant rigging of the stock and commodity markets since the last election weren't enough of a sign!

The Fall of America will happen before the [to be cancelled] November election.

Obomba and Bombney are only going through the motions of an election campaign -- just in case the EU/EZ falls apart first (which TPTB didn't plan for...the European 'Union' is their home base and their grand demonstration of the "advantages" of Central Planning over the entrepreneurial model set/sought by the republic of the United States).

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:33 | 2570148 ACP
ACP's picture

I totally disagree. That would mean too many stupid fucks out there would get that much more financially secure.

Edit: Oops, I missed the "me" part. I thought it just said buy. In which case, I still disagree :-)

Edit edit: Come to think of it, I'm so goddam pissed today I can't even read right. And the spell checker is having a field day.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:14 | 2570395 chet
chet's picture

Just to be clear, Roberts wrote into the majority opinion an explanation of why citizens cannot be mandated to buy things like broccoli.  It is now part of the precedent.

In fact, this opinion has technically changed the notion that this is "mandate", to thinking of it as a tax on some citizens who are not doing a certain behavior.  I know that's not much solace.  But my point is that the decision tries hard to make the point that Congress can't just mandate that people buy things.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:28 | 2570481 Quick
Quick's picture

Play by their rules. I am independantly self employed. I take jobs as they are offered OR I dont take them.

I'M gonna limit the jobs I take, limit my income to pay NO tax and I get FREE HEALTH CARE ! Hell, no interest and inflation make saving a joke. Why work more than you have to.

Fortunately I can do this as I have no debt and I dont need many FRN's


IF EVERYONE would do it, eyes would open. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:22 | 2570855 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

I work from home as well and like GE I can always find enough tax deductions to offset every tax they throw at me :-)

When everyone joins us they will have to come up with a FAIR solution and then I will participate.

I did have health insurance but they offered me a new better plan and then let the time run out so I was uninsured. In order to re-apply the new rates were 4X my original rates. We are all playing a game... some will win and some will lose. Just breaking even is winning anymore IMO

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:54 | 2571618 dvfco
dvfco's picture

Could you guys keep the write-offs quiet?  Just because we self-employed get to write off our cars, travel, meals and countless other expenses as pre-tax income doesn't mean we have to share it with the whole world.  Keep in mind - as self employed, we generally have dozens of small or medium sized clients.  If we lose one, we can survive.  People workig for banks or other large companies not only get the tax whack, but if they lose their one client/employer  - they're out.  They then become another statistic where they get 99 weeks of smaller paychecks without having to work, then permanent checks for being 'disabled.' 

I used to think I loved being self-employed.  Now seeing people on their way to the beach every day and still colllecting checks is rough.  They don't worry about their work 24/7.  On the other hand, if we go under, few of us would receive unemployment.

Tough choices.   How 'bout this - we're all fucked so it doesn't really matter.  It's just a question of who will have enough gold/silver/lead/food to make it through the downturn.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:29 | 2571706 toncuz
toncuz's picture

Actually...Atlas did shrug...John Galt, America's true traitor built his factory in China, bribed Congress to destroy unions and therefore, the living wage. He set up off shore tax evasion scams to avoid supporting his own country EVEN DURING WAR, paid off CONSERVATIVE lapdog politicians to let him sell his junk in America using slave labor in China that breaks the back of every American small business owner. We've seen the traitor...his name is John Galt...his whore mother is called "conservatism".

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:25 | 2570105 Buzzworthy
Buzzworthy's picture

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:26 | 2570113 fourchan
fourchan's picture

thats why we have a republic and not a democracy.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:28 | 2570130 Quantitative_Ap...
Quantitative_Appeasing's picture

That is why we HAD a Republic. Civil war and the 17th amendment killed that off.



Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:03 | 2570760 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

What makes it a "republic" is that the representatives are the ones who create the laws, and "the people" have no direct participation in that process.

The 17th Amendment has nothing to do with anything.  It would still be a republic if the representatives were chosen by lottery or deathmatch, too.

Best not to throw around such big words unless you actually know what they mean.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 17:10 | 2571138 I did it by Occident
I did it by Occident's picture

Republic, democracy, all semantics.  We are supposed to be a "federal republic". The 17th amendment did however make it much much easier to buy favorable legislation for the cronies,er ...I mean lobbyists since it is a lot easier to buy off 51 senators than to get 3000 or so state reps to do your bidding.  The 3000 reps have their own local issues which dilluted the lobby power at the federal level.  Prior to 17th amendment, senators were accountable to their respective states and could be recalled if they voted against the wishes of the state legislature.  Basically it was a "structural" component to enforce the 9th and 10th amendments.  Now without it, there is no state representation or power (i.e. 9th, 10th amendments) so the states have become appendages to carry out federal mandates.  And the feds can withold money for highways, etc. in order to keep the states "in line".  If the Senate were selected the old way, that would never fly.  Also it is curious to look at the federal debt and spending timeline.  Relateive to GDP the spending was flat for most of the 1800s until 1913 at which point it started the upward trajectory that continues today.  Enabling that was also the creation of the fed reserve.

Although I like the deathmatch idea, election night would be entertaining at least

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 18:28 | 2571393 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Republic comes from latin "Res publica". The public thing. That's what everybody owns but no particular owns only for themselves. The republic wasn't killed by the 17th ammendment. It was killed by extreme libertarianism that denies the rightful place of the state as a balance between privates and the public well being (and when destroyed private economic interests took over the political process). And it was also killed by the religious belief in America that every problem is an economic problem, thus it can be solved by the "free-market" (let the markets do whatever they want, they did, and now everything is monetized. And you know who controls that... yeah, the BIG BANKS!). 2 big mistakes.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:30 | 2572062 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

thanks for the laugh but you're no MDB

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:28 | 2570128 Wolferl
Wolferl's picture

Hm, the circle theory by Macchiavelli.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:47 | 2570261 Left Right Wrong
Left Right Wrong's picture

It's actually the Tytler Cycle referenced above - the second half of the quote merely spells out the transition from one phase to the next until we come full circle:



Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:25 | 2570461 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

I prefer the Tit-ler cycle (right then left then...)

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:01 | 2570331 magpie
magpie's picture

Aristotle and Polybios

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:46 | 2570253 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

I read that same quote from The Daily Oklahoman, December 9, 1951. It has been attributed to many people.  

It's a crime that the people of the U.S. have not learned anything in 60 years. As a matter of fact, we seem to be regressing.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:52 | 2570669 macholatte
macholatte's picture



Alexis de Tocqueville



A democratic government is the only one in which those who vote for a tax can escape the obligation to pay it.


Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.


The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.



Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:09 | 2570802 calltoaccount
calltoaccount's picture

 Congress fucks the public at every turn in order to do the bidding of it's big biz paymasters.  The principal beneficiaries of governmental action are the corporations who have come to own and control gov policy to serve their own commercial interests-- not those of the people..  All the rest is propaganda to maintain the predatory status quo.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 18:57 | 2571455 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

Our system had three common sources: English, Colonial, and Indian.  It is based on one of the most robust and simple geometric forms in the world, the tetrahedron. A tetrahedron appears to the casual observer as a three sided pyramid. If you think about it, our system is based on the number three.  Everyone knows the Constitution divided the government into three branches.  The system of checks and balances were designed to rein in the power of the various branches by making them dependent on one another to exercise power.  At various points in history the executive branch has usurped more power than it was allotted.  An overzealous executive was reined in by the impeachment of Andrew Johnson bringing the system back into equilibrium.   What is not commonly understood is the concept of federalism.  This idea was borrowed from the Iroquois Confederation.    This system too exhibits the facets of the tetrahedron.   Sovereignty was to be divided into three equal facets.   Everyone is familiar with the first facet, federal sovereignty.   This was the purview of the Federalists.  Individuals like Washington, Marshal and Hamilton did what they could to flesh out federal sovereignty. It must be understood that the federal government was the child of the states not the other way around.  So, at the time of the writing of the Constitution, the second facet, state sovereignty, was well understood.   State sovereignty only came into question after Appomattox.   The third facet is probably the single most misunderstood facet of the federal system, popular sovereignty. The sovereignty of the individual is spoken to in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments.  These amendments speak to the social contract theory.  A contract exists between the citizen and his government.  The right to life, liberty and property are natural rights, rights that are ours simply from the virtue of being human. We are absolutely free. All power emanates from the people. The people under the social contract willingly cede some of their sovereignty, some of their natural rights, to state and federal governments in return for order and security.  This cession of personal sovereignty is predicated on the assumption that national order will be maintained by rule of law.  Inherent in that assumption is the notion that government will be a protector of the citizenry not prey upon it.  Everything from the Palmer raids, to the Red Scare, to the War on Terror has been used to eradicate the concept of popular sovereignty and natural rights from the public psychic. The system is out of balance.  The individual has become something to be feared.   The fourth, fifth, sixth and eighth Amendments have been stricken from the Constitution.  The Ninth and Tenth Amendments receive almost no mention.  We are now told by Homeland Security that the greatest threat to our social order will come from our own citizenry. Walk around today and talk about popular sovereignty and you may very well be snuffed out.


Nature abhors an imbalance.  Balance will be restored.  The rights of the individual will be restored either by the ballot or the bullet.  We are in 1850.


Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:25 | 2570107 fourchan
fourchan's picture


Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:32 | 2570160 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

we will miss you ;(

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:40 | 2570225 Red Heeler
Red Heeler's picture

I certainly hope so. The more that miss him, the higher the kill ratio.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:26 | 2570109 Ancona
Ancona's picture

Socialism run by fascists.....get used to it bitchezzz.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 18:50 | 2571437 hawks5999
hawks5999's picture


Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:26 | 2570111 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

The American Contract was not really that the government is prohibited to do anything it was that the government would not wield it's power to do anything, .... we'll this contract is up, so put up or pack up

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:26 | 2570114 TheDarkKnight
TheDarkKnight's picture

Atlas already shurgged. Its just moving slowly off the shoulders but once it clears that its a straight drop to the floor.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:26 | 2570116 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Bond market collapse move up ahead of schedule with Obamacare.  Get the fuck out of paper.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:22 | 2570439 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Why on Earth would you believe there's still a bond market????

There's nothing there but a controlled collapse of the facade. The market died, long, long ago.

As for rates rising, well that will be done just enough to steal some jewels while depleting the serfs by jacking up CC rates (remember, they're all floating now, being based on the prime rate). Then everyone will scream out for more "bailouts."

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:27 | 2570118 mrktwtch2
mrktwtch2's picture

man do we need john galt..but the country would have to get 10 times worse than it is now for atlas shruggged to become a reality..

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:13 | 2570393 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

That's on the way; just give it a little time, brother.

Tick, tick, tick . . .

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:25 | 2570463 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Thing is, with every tick, the masses get poorer, and Galts' Gulch becomes more unobtainable.

Strong communities require real savings, otherwise, they too will succumb to dependency.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:33 | 2570502 Jethro
Jethro's picture

The time to prepare is now.  Not next week, not tomorrow.....NOW.  We still have forward momentum----well, perhaps sideways momentum, but the plates are still spinning and the sheeple are happliy grazing on the commons.  Who knows how much longer this calm will last?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:06 | 2570786 CH1
CH1's picture

the country would have to get 10 times worse than it is now for atlas shruggged to become a reality..

Strongly disagree. All it needs is just a little more time - everything else is already in place.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:27 | 2570122 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Next month:  New law passed requiring anyone not falling into the poverty category to purchase govt. bonds and convert all loans to be held by govt. agencies.  All payments for these bonds and for ongoing monthly payments for mortgages, car loans, student loans, etc. will be collected annually via income taxes and directed to the IRS.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:31 | 2570152 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

see how easy it is? there are no breaks on taxation now it's a runaway train, if you don't wanna get rolled over by it MOVE(emigrate) out of it's way

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:37 | 2570154 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

So the bottom line is that people work in exchange for pictures of dead presidents on worthless pieces of paper which they now will also have to hand back for the purchase of more government debt.

This is nothing more than forced labour. Think about that.

In fact this is a repeat of what happened with the Arabs when the price of oil spiked decades ago. The USA allowed them to get away with ths as long as half the proceeds were used to buy government bonds.

It is all just a support mchanism for the dollar.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:34 | 2570155 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

That's a super clean and shallow exponential going from 2020 - 2080. My erroneous extrapolation senses are tingling. You really think the promise of solvency behind USD is gonna hold up in the Saudis' books before debt/GDP exceeds 250%?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:55 | 2570307 Aziz
Aziz's picture

I'd be surprised if we even get to 200% before we get currency crisis/crises/collapse. Things can't go on the way they are precisely BECAUSE of the future trajectory.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:33 | 2570162 Quantitative_Ap...
Quantitative_Appeasing's picture

As of today


I am only going to vote for the most obnoxious, freedom hating, big spending politicians I can find.

Goign back is clearly not an option. Time to follow Jim Morrison's advice and "break on through to the other side"


Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:56 | 2570316 pods
pods's picture

I don't think that criteria is going to limit your choices too much.


Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:59 | 2570326 atomicwasted
atomicwasted's picture

The system is too brittle to fix.  Crashing it is the only way to get change.  We need to blue screen this bitch so someone can press the reset button.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:35 | 2570172 Doode
Doode's picture

that GAO link does not exist - try it yourself.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:38 | 2570203 Sancho Ponzi
Sancho Ponzi's picture

That chart dates from 2008.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:36 | 2570185 Jason T
Jason T's picture

the system blows in 2016 .. that chart is absurd.  

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:37 | 2570198 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

but what’s stopping Congress from mandating that patriotic Americans with any spare cash dump it into government securities (or even flagging equities)?

The Fed does that for you now

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:40 | 2570218 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

It's laughable. You could have done it better by creating a public single payer health system. That way everybody would be chipping in, everybody covered. But Amerikkka is so free, free-markety, that it was too "commie" to do so, and now you're forced to buy from private (and douchey) providers, you're now again subjects to the health insurance industry cartel. Good job serfs!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:41 | 2570230 yogibear
yogibear's picture


Free rent - section 8

Free food - Food Stamps

Free cell phone - lifeline

Welfare - free money.

Free Healthcare -




Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:42 | 2570232 Encroaching Darkness
Encroaching Darkness's picture

Buy physical, take delivery, stack in seclusion, barter & snipe.

It's time.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:43 | 2570237 reader2010
reader2010's picture


Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:44 | 2570241 jplotinus
jplotinus's picture

"voting for free stuff..."

That quote is the stuff of a blind spot. It's pointless to argue with people concerning things they cannot see. Many cannot see that healthcare is a right.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:47 | 2570265 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Healthcare is not a right. You have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You don't have the right to pick my pocket to do it.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:54 | 2571070 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Thanks Dr E. Healthcare is NOT a right. It is a privilege. If it were a right someone, willing or not, would be forced to provide it. Therefore food as well is not a right, nor education. I know in today's American society this is considered radical thought now. Pity people don't understand this besides the preppers.


Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:05 | 2570346 Aziz
Aziz's picture

Whether you conceptualise it as a right or not (that is a matter of opinion) it's still free stuff. Free stuff is free stuff.

Personally, I don't believe anyone really has a right to the fruits of others' labour. I think charity is necessary and important, but charity at gunpoint is not charity.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:12 | 2570389 De minimus
De minimus's picture

That's okay though, we can all see that you are an idiot.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:46 | 2570599 wonderatitall
wonderatitall's picture

how?....please give me your tortured answer...and where do you get the slaves "democrat"?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:52 | 2570290 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Time to buy a carton of cigarettes, a box of good Churchill's, and a case of Whiskey.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:53 | 2570299 bdc63
bdc63's picture

is this really a surprize to any ZHer's? ...

when the stock market dies, all 401k's will be shifted in treasuries ... it will be "for your own good" and it will be "patriotic" as well ... win - win.  except, of course, you lose everything.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:08 | 2570363 Clinteastwood
Clinteastwood's picture

Oh no, they'll be mandating the purchase of treasuries in your 401k long before the stock market dies.  And when you take your money out of your 401k........the taxes they'll want..........oh my.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:06 | 2570787 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

No, 401k's will be absorbed into SSI "annuities" and the underlying stocks will be sold back to the corporations at a killer deal to enrich the preferred shareholders. You'll get CPI indexed benefits that shrink like a 12 ounce "pound" of coffee. They just have to steal a little bit each day.........

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:57 | 2570301 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

This opens the door for basically anything. With this precedent, they can force you to buy liability insurance before purchasing a firearm. Expect that to be $10k... making legal gun ownership impractical for the 99%.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:28 | 2570478 Northeaster
Northeaster's picture

That Bill is already making it's way through our State Legislature:

More insurance company love from a corrupt state governing body.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:58 | 2570721 Patriot Eke
Patriot Eke's picture

Doctors are already asking if you own firearms.  Imagine the day when you're refused insurance because of them.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:11 | 2570381 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

"Americans are either celebrating or damning "


I stopped reading right there. the first thing you wrote was completely wrong. Many of this see this as just irrelevant to the big picture. this is a 'sidewhow'. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:19 | 2570424 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i can believe the supremes coulda gone the other way

some of these votes or pretty nutso and scalia's comments indicate he thought he was in the majority;  the chief justice pulled a fast one here, for the neoCon guy but it may backfire

every single local news feed has doctors and hospitals just happy as hell and pelosi is preaching and i caught a shill from sanJose saying how 10,000 more people will now have healthcare insurance locally who did not have healthcare insurance before and 200,000 will now have better healthcare insurance coverage now

one guy went on about how now [borwn cow]  people will have access to primary care providers and specialty-care providers, and everything is fixed 

i just started crying i was so fuking happy, BiCheZ

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:27 | 2570475 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The only happy doctors must be the ones a year or two away from retirement.

Doctors are being demoted, in favor of insurance executives and lawyers.

Good luck to new and future doctors paying off those college loans!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:58 | 2570727 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

they may have screened for positive comments b/c--there were no negative ones!

and the doctors were working in hospitals, i think, eb

pelosi was pretty fuking haapy; she reminded me of OJ when the verdict came in

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:06 | 2570783 Jena
Jena's picture

He's still looking for the real killer.  Oh wait...

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:22 | 2570442 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

And the pols will still be scratching their heads as to why disposable income is down, discretionary purchased are down, GDP growth is down, housing isn't spiking back.  At least oil will continue to decline until OPEC cuts production which as to be any week now...$100 by T-giving.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:33 | 2570500 dukeness
dukeness's picture

"You must buy these CDOs to make housing affordable to everyone."

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:53 | 2570673 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. ... generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.


~ Thomas Sowell 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:58 | 2570722 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

as the IRS is quietly folded into national security as an insurance adjuster [general council?] to enhance your newly found liberty's

'read my lips... no new taxes?'


Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:01 | 2570746 Frederic Bastiat
Frederic Bastiat's picture

To John Aziz: Time to do some thinking,

It's not that the government is forcing people to buy healthcare--the law already provides the healthcare.  It is illegal for anyone to be turned away from an emergency room--that's the a'surance' that healtcare will be provided.  Now all the government is doing is trying to deal with the free riders--which cost money. 

So your speculation that now the government could force you to buy financial securities is wrongheaded. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:18 | 2570856 Aziz
Aziz's picture

You sir are no Frederic Bastiat.

The Fed already does this collectively. It is only a matter of time before we follow Japan.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 18:20 | 2571373 falak pema
falak pema's picture

through Oligarchy neo-fascisim the USA precedes modern Japan; and is heading towards feudal japan. Its not the statist slant that has put USA into regression it is the financial corpocracy. Aziz is not what aziz says. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 18:40 | 2571420 Aziz
Aziz's picture

The financial oligarchy and the state are intertwined beyond any point of separation.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 18:57 | 2571453 falak pema
falak pema's picture

break that linkage becomes the slicing of the gordian knot then; by 'we the people'. Its the desire of the people to exercise their will and their rights that is the acid test for a nation. Change this class of politicians. Lock stock and barrel. Requires political awareness in the people that the americans have lost. All they care about is money; thats a means to an end not an end in itself. But American culture only knows one God; the greenback, it's fall means the people fall as well as they have no other yardstick! Total apolitical environment where WS values run the nation!

Napoleon talked about a nation of shopkeepers; he epitomised totalitarian statism, even if he created the civil code. America has created the same result through making "shopkeepers" into hegemonial war mongers and closed shop crony capitalists. Many ways to get to the top of Mount Everest. And die there from frostbite. "Berezina blues". 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:41 | 2571739 gnomon
gnomon's picture

I choose not to purchase healthcare even though I have the means to do so.  I also have the means to cover catastrophic medical costs, if they should incur.  I therefore am no free rider.  The government is forcing me to purchase a product or to pay a fine that goes up at whatever rate they decide until it is so punitive that it is more expensive than paying premiums.  

But I will NEVER enroll in their system.  If they try to ram this down one more time, there will be an explosion of civil disobedience.  The limits have been reached.

Fuck 'em all!!!  The Congress is trashing the Constitution.  The President is trashing the Constitution.  And now the Supreme Court is trashing the Constitution  

This must end, and it will end.  And if the end be bloody, so be it.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:09 | 2570779 BBullionaire
BBullionaire's picture
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public purse. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.     The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations go:  

•From bondage to spiritual faith; •From spiritual faith to great courage; •From courage to liberty; •From liberty to abundance; •From abundance to complacency; •From complacency to apathy; •From apathy to dependence; •From dependence back into bondage.     Lord Woodhouselee    
Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:39 | 2570947 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

People getting all the free stuff -- cell phones, section 8 houses, SNAP, EBT, CHIP,  medical care -- are celebrating.

The people who are paying for it are depressed.

I'll feel much better when my 'Thingamajig' comes in the mail. I hope it's not "pre-owned."

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:52 | 2571057 JR
JR's picture

This is different from anything in America's history. This is requiring you to pay taxes for something you don’t want.  Say you’re young and you don’t want health insurance. But the government says, NO NO! This is good for America, and you’re going to buy it!  Even the income tax doesn’t say that and they don’t yet force you to buy broccoli. This is taking private property when no sale and no commitment were made…and it’s open ended.

The government can bring into the country as many people as it will hold, give them as much free stuff as it can and force you to buy insurance against its policies. And your penalty for not buying will get greater and greater until the wealth transfer is paid. It’s the end of the country.

The politicians, soon to be tyrants, will decide how much health care will be given to people who don’t have any money and, of course, the recipients will be the supporters of the politicians.

As the health care bill goes higher and higher, the insurance  that those with money have to pay to protect  themselves gets more and more expensive and the penalty (incorrectly called a tax) will get greater and greater to pay the bill.

It wasn’t enough that Bernanke began lifting the savings of Americans to bail out the economy justifying his actions in February before the House Committee on the Budget that apparently saw nothing wrong with it: “We understand the concern that savers have, but we are trying to deal with a bad situation, and this is one of the tools we have to try to get the economy back to full employment.”

Again, this is the end of the country. It’s the beginning of the tyranny. It’s Lenin going after the Kulaks -  the independent peasant farmers seen as enemies of the state - all over again.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:57 | 2571786 gnomon
gnomon's picture

As one of Obama's mentors said, paraphrasing, "We will have to cleanse 15 million of them in order to finish the job".

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 17:10 | 2571137 DaveA
DaveA's picture

That graph was drawn before the 2008 financial collapse. It shows debt/GDP decreasing until 2020 and not exceeding 100% until 2036. It's only 2012 and we're past 100% already!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 18:05 | 2571323 batterycharged
batterycharged's picture

I love how the mandate of health insurance outrages people but the mandate of invading and occupying a foreign country is no big $10s of billions per month.

The way I look at it we choose how our society works, just because the gov't isn't choosing it for us doesn't mean some other sonofabitches aren't.

If you think the current system is free enterprise, call me a commie because it sucks ass.

Everyone uses health care, EVERYONE. So everyone should pay for it. The rest is bullshit. I'd prefer a better system than the parasites of insurance companies and used-car-salesman doctors.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:17 | 2571677 GlassSteagall
GlassSteagall's picture

PM confiscation is now a done deal ... should Obama be elected in November.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:49 | 2571760 gnomon
gnomon's picture

Over my dead body.   (And I sincerely mean that).

Come and get it.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:08 | 2572001 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

The proles get welfare, unemployment, foiodstamps and social security -  keeps them from rioting in the streets and hanging the elites from lampposts - the ones who get BILLIONS in no bid contracts from the government, TRILLIONS in bail outs and the ability to writh the laws and regulations overseeing their industries.

JP Morgan is making a fortune administering food stamps.  Even th government aid going to the proles is hit with fees and charges.... the elites take a cut of everything (just like the mob - only more efficiently)

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