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Guest Post: Former Marine Arrested For Patriotic Posts On Facebook

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Brandon Smith from Alt-Market

Former Marine Arrested For Patriotic Posts On Facebook

First the establishment started going after current serving military men for their outspoken political views on Facebook and other web venues, men like Marine Sergeant Gary Stein.  Now, it seems the government is going after veterans as well.  This is the classic pattern of a burgeoning totalitarian state; attack a small group first (outspoken serving military) which the public ignores because it affects them little personally, then slowly expand out to eventually include everyone else.  To all those insipid bottom feeders out there who refused to defend Gary Stein's right to free speech, here is what you have wrought.  Because of your ignorance, the government has been able to set a social precedent which they now plan to apply to a whole new group of people, starting with former Marine Brandon Raub.  The common statist slave will give the typical coward's response, which would sound a little something like this:

"...When are people going to learn that Facebook isn't private?  You would have to be stupid to express such views where everyone can see..."

"They didn't arrest him, they just 'detained' him..."

"He's former military and should be 'ashamed' of his comments against the government., blah blah blah, etc..."

The bottom line is, the 1st Amendment is NOT conditional.  ALL speech must be protected, no matter who you are, or where you happen to be speaking.  Just because our current criminal government decides 1st Amendment protections do not apply to Facebook does not mean they have the authority to make such distinctions.  In fact, the Constitution explicitly outlines how they are restricted from making such distinctions.  If a government entity, ANY government entity, attempts to violate Constitutional restrictions, it must be removed by any means necessary.

Take note that the FBI used the accusation of "terrorist threats" by Brandon Raub as an excuse for the arrest even though there is no indication that any actual threats were present on his Facebook page..

(Brandon's comments included observations that 9-11 was done by the government (even going to such length, and an interestingly detailed thesis, of providing evidence to augment this), the War on Terror is a lie, Americans are killing innocent people in the ME, the current federal banking system is corrupt and unfeasible to Americans, and that the George Bush's family rapes little children)

I would say that all of these claims have enough circumstantial evidence behind them to warrant a serious independent investigation, and even if they didn't, there is no law against "conspiracy theory", at least not yet...

The police and FBI also failed to read Raub his Miranda Rights. Could this be one of the first public instances of the enforcement of NDAA detainment provisions against a U.S. citizen as a so called "domestic terrorist"?  You know, those detainment provisions that Neo-Cons and Neo-Libs alike claim "don't exist"?

My question for the statist slaves is, how soon will it be before they get to you?  Do you really believe your complacency and apathy will save you?  Has that kind of philosophy saved any slave under any other tyranny of the past?  This is NOT a free country anymore, and if we do not act to defend each individual who suffers under the weight of bureaucratic oppression, then everyone will lose everything.  It is time to pick a side.


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Sun, 08/19/2012 - 13:12 | 2718235 YuropeanImbecille
YuropeanImbecille's picture

that is what happens when you embrace Socialism! so blame yourselves.. If you wave a flag here you go to jail for hateful behaviour.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 13:23 | 2718271 Acet
Acet's picture

I am trully dazzled and convinced by the dept, clarity and toughtfullness of your argument.

You sir, have removed my blindness: before reading your post I would never be able to make the connection between a political system that believes in greater equality and a social net for everybody and the current American administration arresting people for saying what they think using laws passed by both main parties, but now I can see clearly the link /sarc

I suggest you research Totalitarianism - you'll find it's quite independent of left-wing or right-wing.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 13:39 | 2718335 Popo
Popo's picture

What is *does* prove is that Facebook is dangerous stuff, and that people's accounts are being actively watched.

Fortunately I post most of my government criticism here on Zerohedge where no gubmint types would ever lurk, troll or post...

... Er... Right?

*** NO SIGNAL ***

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 13:42 | 2718345 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Yes, with no warrant.  That is the real story here.  We have big brother watching and recording us all and if they think we cross the line, they fucking arrest us for speech they do not like.  That is not a free society.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 13:54 | 2718390 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

yes, but he's just detained for life... nothing to see here people, you walk along... OR YOU WILL ALSO BE DETAINED FOR THE NEXT 48 years!!!!*

* unless you're younger than 18, than it's 68 years....

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 13:58 | 2718406 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The noose is indeed tightening.  Take the out in the open constant surveillance of citizens together with the executive repeal of Habeas Corpus (e.g., the President or his minions can declare anyone a terrorist unilaterally, and they lose all rights under the Constitution just like that), and it starts to look like there really is a grand plan to convert this country into a Chinese type society where "dissenters" disappear in the night.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 14:05 | 2718434 malikai
malikai's picture

They took this guy in broad daylight. And they will pretend that they have just stopped the next Charles Whittman.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 15:51 | 2718671 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Who the hell is "they"? You mean Zionist Occupation Government. Where Patriots=Palestinians.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:29 | 2718746 CH1
CH1's picture


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:52 | 2718797 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

The first alternative media publicized NDAA home soil arrest for exercising the first amendment.

This is the sign you and I have all been waiting for.

I finished my preps over this weekend and I truly hope the good people here on ZH are all as ready as I am. Keep your heads down, don't stick your neck out and most important protect your family and neighbors.

Casus Belli

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:05 | 2718833 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Live Free or Die Trying.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:35 | 2718894 Surly Bear
Surly Bear's picture

I am surprised at the lack of understanding regarding the UCMJ: He volunteered. He is subject to the military code, and as such he forfeits his rights under the civilian code. He does not have the right to remain silent, and must give any and all evidence material to the investigation. THIS is why you do not volunteer.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:59 | 2718933 robobbob
robobbob's picture

The UCMJ extends to after your date of separation?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:42 | 2719009 Seer
Seer's picture

Ha!  Caught Surly Bear with his pants down!  Amazing how horribly biased people are, to the point of NOT bothering to analyze the FACTS (as presented in the article) before spouting off (showing their TRUE colors).

Anyway... as a former Marine myself, and as someone who is rather outspoken, I see the noose tightening.  Fuck 'em.  Nooses don't work on Leathernecks!

May the ghosts of Generals [USMC] Smedley Butler and David Shoup haunt today's bastards!

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:51 | 2719029 3rdgrader
3rdgrader's picture

And I thought that I was the only one that caught shit for posting crap on Fecebook.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 22:48 | 2719605 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

They are testing the waters in their backyard, Virgina.  This is the first NDAA case, renditioned to a hospital psych ward against his will for Facecrap posts??   This shit needs to be nipped in the bud.   Thankfully there is an alt. media out there to expose this crap.  When they shut down or censor the web, then the info will be harder to come by.

Thu, 08/23/2012 - 18:19 | 2722605 Rahm
Rahm's picture


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:21 | 2719216 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

+1 on David Shoup, tough bastard that he was. S/F - Ned

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 23:45 | 2719412 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Civilian AWOL.   Absent Without Lawyer.


Mon, 08/20/2012 - 01:14 | 2719816 Ben Dover
Ben Dover's picture

Not sure of how it is now as opposed to back when, but was he in the IRR and did that come in to play here? (I honestly don't know).

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 02:46 | 2719881 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

As a former Marine they should have come for me back in 2009.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:15 | 2718964 Benjamin Glutton
Benjamin Glutton's picture

A "Former Marine" is not bound by UCMJ.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:22 | 2718982 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Surly Bear: four legs good, but you don't know shit about the UCMJ.  Only part ya got right is the forfeit rights under the civilian code.  However, given the judiciary, the lines are so blurred that enemy prisoners of war are granted righst that exceed those of AMCITS.

And, no, this is why YOU didn't volunteer.

- Ned

{... has a taste that ...}

{{but we know, that the buck stops with YOU!}}

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:35 | 2719001 Surly Bear
Surly Bear's picture

I love watching the crazies come out to play.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:57 | 2719161 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

They're in your mirror.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:40 | 2718902 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

when you join the military, you get the right to kill other human beings and get paid. downside is that you lose civilian freedoms and pentagon can treat you like a pawn.


more white trash welfare recipients should serve in the military and kill off before they produce more ignorant idiots in the south.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:08 | 2718949 WeAreJellyfish
WeAreJellyfish's picture

Yea - and reward all nepotismic activities for the most valued celebrities of name and stature?


Why not get those that want to go to war FIGHT the war themselves.  Then make a reality show of white trash watching the rich eat each other.


Talk about the best thing that could happen for the economy AND getting to the root of fixing the nagging AH is made of.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:38 | 2719130 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

yes....let republicans pay their own war tax....

but how many republicans want to cut "defense" spending???? no more than democrats who want to cut welfare....


Iraq war was $3,000,000,000,000+


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:40 | 2719007 Whiner
Whiner's picture

It will be mainly the men of the South who will protectect your effeminate, elitist ass when TSHF. It is not in Dixie where the collectivists roam. They are clustered in your northern universities, your unions, your burned out- bankrupt, corrupt cities. Then again maybe you are a left coast lefty.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:26 | 2719105 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

You think Russians and Chinese are scared of southern rednecks?


"effeminate" scientists who developed nukes are what they are really afraid of. They both have plenty of disposable idiots. They do not have American military technology developed by high IQ men.


this is what I'm talking about. Americans think bunch of thugs are what makes a men....leader like know they have plenty of warlords in Africa. muscles don't make men.....character and brains is what builds nations.



god damn hicks. go get some education.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 21:49 | 2719435 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

go fuck your mother then kill the bitch for not flushing after she shit your sorry ass out

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 01:57 | 2719851 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Um, why would you protect them? If you're in my unit you will not protect them; do so and you'll be standing tall before the man.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:45 | 2719017 Seer
Seer's picture

Back when I joined it was clearly voluntary.  Today, however, the "voluntary" part is highly questionable.  Careful of what you wish for as it's a slippery slope... and I wouldn't wish ANY war on ANYONE.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:30 | 2719108 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

shitty education system and lack of job opportunities force many young men into "voluntary" military getting paid LESS than foreign mercenaries.


“Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy.” - Kissinger


don't get all mad when you are laid off from military (or what they call honorably discharged) with no civilian job with fucked up nightmares and broken limbs. ELITES DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR PATRIOTISM.


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:07 | 2719180 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Working men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for domestic policy.

There, that covers everything.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:12 | 2719189's picture

Who do you think you are, Axis Sally?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:34 | 2719246 maxcody
maxcody's picture

Huxley Berry,

To make SFC (E7) you must have at lest 2 years of College  a Major to get promoted must have a masters degree.  Also there are more college grads in the GOP than the

Party of the left - Dumocrats.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:52 | 2719293 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

"college" grads who major in bullshit?

half of colleges in US are profit centers ripping off the public.


2 year college = community college retard who couldn't go to 4 year college.


I mean god damn, George Bush the retard went to "college". so imagine those who didn't even make it.....


GOP the party who watches FOX and belives in Glenn Beck????

 democrats are not smart, but republicans have arrogant ignorants who are proud to be stupid.....too stupid to know that they are being exploited.


Go get yourself killed retard. Paris Hilton thanks you for allowing her to get richer.




Sun, 08/19/2012 - 21:23 | 2719357 Nikao7
Nikao7's picture

"2 year college = community college retard who couldn't go to 4 year college."

or possibly.....

2 year college = someone not as indebted as the one who pays way more for what are mostly useless degrees at a 4 year college???

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 21:42 | 2719411 perchprism
perchprism's picture

What the hell is your problem, you fucking commie?  Why don't you just put yourself out of our misery, thanks.

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 04:18 | 2719923 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

nobody is a communist today pal....even north korea has central banks and chinese style capitalism with slave labor.


you sound like zionist in Israel blaming muslims for the recent strings of self-immolations.


wait till the iraqi vets come home seeking jobs. jobs gone to china or illegal mexicans. what a way to thank a vet.


Moshe Silman,a member of a grassroots movement to lower the cost of living in Israel, self-immolated during a July 14 demonstration in Tel Aviv and died two weeks later.Left a note accusing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's conservative government of "taking from the poor and giving to the rich"

Israel is Tibet now over her own citizens?

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 01:19 | 2719822 Ben Dover
Ben Dover's picture

They may be in college but apparently that does not mean they are in the military (with honorable mention to all who went)

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 04:28 | 2719926 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

This is the man who is going to get us into next war....


Mitt Romney ran off to Franch mansion during vietnam.


and I don't recall obama serving anywhere. He is happy house negro sending brothers into more wars.


even military is getting tired of chickenhawks in whitehouse. that's why young military voters are all for Ron Paul, who hates spending 50% of your taxes on military adventures.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:50 | 2719152 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

AldousHuxley, being cynical about everything will lead you nowhere. Being condescending will not make you smarter I am afraid. The worst pollution that a corrupt regime can do is to soil the souls of its enemies, in that case they have won. There is randomness in everything, and you are randomly born within a certain area, with a random quantity of talent and disabilities, opportunities and misfortunes. That applies to you and I, if you fail to realize that you are disadvantaged I am afraid.


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 21:41 | 2719406 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture


scene from catch 22 ....



Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:26 | 2719231 maxcody
maxcody's picture

Plenty of all Trash in the North.  I have lived in the South, The West the North and

New England.  I founnd more trash in Philly, NYC, Boston than I have found in the South or West.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:29 | 2719237 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Aldous, I like some of the things you post, but this is a bit beneath you. You do not get the right to kill other human beings. I suggest you have less of a right to kill than your local cop. You go to war. In war they try to kill you and you try to kill them first. You can argue about when it is right to go to war and it is a good debate. I believe you go to war in America only with a vote of Congress. Anything over a small police action like pirates or protecting Americans in a combat area requires invading entire countries.

However, war is ostensibly two armed camps fighting each other. There are war crimes, too. You cannot line up the people in a village and shoot all of least in Western armies. You cannot shoot your own people. You cannot shoot noncombatants of any type which is why modern guerillas and terrorists try to hide among civilians. They know this, too.

Being in the military is not a license to murder as you imply. You lose some amount of freedoms, generally just public comment while in uniform because the idea is to seperate the military from politics lest we become a third world country where the Army is the instrument of oppression for its own citizens. The second amendment helps to keep this balance, too.

Our military is volunteer and it is not white trash welfare recipients. It is all races. It is volunteers and it is honorable in its purpose. Whether or not the average soldies is a pawn is worth debating but the service is not.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 21:27 | 2719364 Nikao7
Nikao7's picture

"It is volunteers and it is honorable in its purpose. "

In the mind of a thoroughly dumbed down typical AmeriBot.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 21:53 | 2719439 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

war in theory is honorable but it practice it is hell on earth.

defending your family against invasions is honorable.

but when people are sold on it using fear war is just a tool.


the fact is America will go to war. to get something for nothing. debtor countries go to war.

I hope I'm not dragged into catch 22...

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 23:59 | 2719738 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I suspect your are a thoroughly indoctinated drone of some sort and a moron to boot. To say that volunteer armies for defense are not honorable is stupid. I am one who believes that America is in too many places fighting for too many vague causes that may be unwinnable, like democracy in the thoroughly dysfunctional Middle East. However, we don't do outright conquest and subjugation. Women actually go to school in Afghanistan and I am hoping we are teaching them to rank their wives above their favorite goat but maybe still below the oldest son...who will undoubtedly grow poppies or kill infidels. We try to play nice with people who do not even really have the concept. Americans have even fought other Americans for certain causes.

There are moral wars for good causes and there is the right to volunteer for them just as Americans joined the RAF in Britain and Chenault in China prior to our entry into the war. There are real bad guys in places. Only drones think otherwise.


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:55 | 2719294 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

Ignorance knows no boundaries.

(reply to  Huxley's "white trash in the South" post above)

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 04:32 | 2719929 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

trash is fucking everywhere these days.



Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:21 | 2718981 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

I'm with you Conrad... till the wheels come off, just want my family safe first.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 22:22 | 2719534 WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot's picture

Great post, but finished your preps? That's quite a statement. 

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 01:20 | 2719810 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

Finished as in I have acquired all the items needed to bug out to a range 1500km and survive off grid for one year and possibly a lot longer depending on growing, hunting and fishing conditions. I can load up and hit the road in under 15 minutes and base my prep plan on the lack of owning property outside of an urban area (you can only put so much in an SUV). I have many pre-chosen destinations in or close to the wilderness and have clothing and gear for all 4 seasons. I even have radiation gear such as a geiger counter, dosimeter cards and a healthy supply of potassium iodide for a nuclear contingent.

The final item on the prep list is wilderness property so in truth yes I am not finished but short of that I have done everything I can including purchasing and losing gold and silver in boating accidents. Current funds are being hoarded for the before mentioned property.

It's a pretty sweet kit, I would be happy to write something longer and in detail if ZH or Tylers are interested.


Mon, 08/20/2012 - 07:42 | 2720073 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:30 | 2718748 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

better be careful alot of zero hedgers have disappeared over the years.....

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:27 | 2718864 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

His name was Project Mayhem. 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:34 | 2718888 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

His name was Project Mayhem.

Project Mayhem is dead, long live Project Mayhem! #PM2012

Code it, bitchez!

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:48 | 2718915 IndicaTive
IndicaTive's picture

In retrospect, googling, skimming and bookmarking some of Mayhem's posts for further reading not a good idea? 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:53 | 2718924 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Completely off topic but since the MSM will not show it, here is the speech from Julian Assange in London from Al-Jazeera. You have no chance of seeing this speech on CNN for sure.


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:13 | 2718959 Votewithabullet
Votewithabullet's picture

Telegraph front page...conservatives at CNN would never show it...for sure. Because its so fucking boring? This fuct job was no patriot. He thinks a missle hit the pentagon, The solictor generals wife got on a missle that morning? The sand niggers hijacked a missle? The some 48 witnesses on the freeway who saw the N# on the missle before it struck? This putz posted his address  on his faceberg page and said he was leading the revolution, I'm surprised the FBI didnt buy him an ice cream. Patriot my arse. Insane clown posse original member...

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:46 | 2719142 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

signs of desparate empire when America wouldn't show the truth but "terrorists" like Russians (RT) and Arabs (Aljazeera) shows the truth.


wikileaks just said the emperor is naked. Now emperor is mad.

but truth is out already and

emperor has lost legitamacy in people's minds.

but watch out for wrath of naked emperor.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:14 | 2719194's picture

Yeah, and don't forget that darned old American citizenism, either.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:28 | 2719235 Mysteerious Roo...
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman's picture


LOL! +1

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 22:28 | 2719553 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

+ 1

I believe that's actually AlAldous Huxley...based on the syntax and content lately...

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:26 | 2719232 Mysteerious Roo...
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman's picture



Whatever it was that struck the Pentagon was NOT a fixed-wing aircraft. All you have to do is to look at the photographs of the damage--photos taken within hours after the incident. Plenty of videos on You Tube. Look at them. All you have to do is grasp the fact that there was no wreckage of an aircraft on the site. Only a fool would think that the Pentagon was struck by a fixed-wing aircraft.


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:39 | 2719262 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

You conspiracy types really get me. I can counterpoint most everything the conspiracists say.

However, let us presume what you say it true. It is a conspiracy and the American government, the Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission, the Templars...whoever had some interest in this national disaster did it.

If it was done with our government's permission then that is sufficient cause for full armed rebellion, right? I mean a government is killing its own citizens...if you are American, at least. Then it is also a pretext to go kill the peace loving gentle citizens of Afghanistan and Iraq...all of who are innocent by this idea.

Why are you not in the streets, at least? Are you even lobbying for a full investigation and open documents?

I am not convinced. Sometimes things really are as they appear.

There are better battles to fight to reestablish our liberty.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 21:30 | 2719374 Nikao7
Nikao7's picture

We have an "AmeriBot" in true form here

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 22:27 | 2719552 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 If it was done with our government's permission then that is sufficient cause for full armed rebellion, right? I mean a government is killing its own citizens...if you are American, at least.

Chum, the American government routinely wages war on, and kills, its own citizens. You never heard of the war on drugs?

Armed rebellion is simply not viable in a democracy where the majority of the people have been brainwashed into believing they're free. They would defend their robber barons to their last breath, and re-elect a new batch in the blink of an eye given half a chance. In fact, they do this routinely in the West, every three or four years, generation in, generation out.

Armed rebellion is only a viable method in places where people realise they're being systematically fucked by their overlords - Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Viet Nam, Czarist Russia, for instance - and the only thing holding back the populace is the explicit threat of government violence. This isn't how it works in America - the populace are thoroughly tame and like nothing more than to lick the hands of their masters. Expecting them to rebel against them is laughable - they think 'they are' the government, simply because they can vote for a different set of puppets every few years.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 23:58 | 2719735 Tom Terrific
Tom Terrific's picture

You win the grand prize!

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 00:07 | 2719747 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I understand that and i actually am against the war on drugs. We had the war on alcohol with prohibition. Once you make something illegal that people want, you make a black market for it. Then you get the nasty sort of characters that will meet that demand.

I am a libertarian and I believe you own yourself. If you want to take drugs, sell sex or do extreme sports it is yours to do as long as you do no harm to others. However, you are mixing up issues. Drugs were made illegal about a century ago and they do not inherently involve the murder of citizens. Knocking down two or three huge buildings for the simple reason of pointless murder is very different.

You talk a good game BigJim with all your insults about licking the hands. You are a big talking know nothing. I address the problem in America and the West in general in another post.

Yes, there are problems but you conspiracy types really outsmart yourselves by half. I still say it is as it appears and there is no one here pulling my strings. I just assert a different view of events than you. Deal with a different opinon and make a rational argument.

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 02:15 | 2719862 Revert_Back_to_...
Revert_Back_to_1792_Act's picture

Sometimes things really are as they appear.  This is a five minute summary of the offical story.

Seems very reasonable to me.


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:53 | 2718925 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

The dark curtain is descending...dissent is terrorism.

 Welcome to the 4th Reich.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:44 | 2719273 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

That is not strictly true, yet. If you are a leftist agitator you are far more welcome. If you are a union drone and occupy and destroy state property in Wisconsin you get a pass. As long as you are for MORE state power, control and taxation you are generally welcome. If the letters USSA seem good to you, then you are useful.

If you are against the collectivist, centrally planned welfare state...not so welcome...not useful...dangerous.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:32 | 2718992 Brindle702
Brindle702's picture

Marla too?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:21 | 2719211 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Marla is a very different case than mayhem.  Marla jumped the shark.  Mayhem disappeared

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:09 | 2718951 WeAreJellyfish
WeAreJellyfish's picture

Naw - they just changed their name again.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:10 | 2718957 WeAreJellyfish
WeAreJellyfish's picture

Naw - they just changed their name

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:35 | 2719002 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 21:26 | 2719359 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture


Exclusive: FBI probed GOP trip with drinking, nudity in Israel

Read more:

The FBI probed a late-night swim in the Sea of Galilee that involved drinking, numerous GOP freshmen lawmakers, top leadership staff – and one nude member of Congress, according to more than a dozen sources, including eyewitnesses.

During a fact-finding congressional trip to the Holy Land last summer, Rep. Kevin Yoder (R-Kan.) took off his clothes and jumped into the sea, joining a number of members, their families and GOP staff during a night out in Israel, the sources told POLITICO. Other participants, including the daughter of another congressman, swam fully clothed while some lawmakers partially disrobed. More than 20 people took part in the late-night dip in the sea, according to sources who took part in the trip.

Read more:

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 14:05 | 2718432 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

So...what about B. Manning?  This is nothing new.  The Your Government has been doing this shit for decades. 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 14:18 | 2718479 lightning
lightning's picture

I am not an advocate of leaking classified information due to the risk of killing someone.  That being said, unless we impeach Obama, Manning should go free.  Talk about fracking hypocrisy.  At least the military is coming out against the president's leaks; elsewhere all I hear is chirping noises.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:12 | 2718709 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

I agree with most of what you said, but I don't understand where the oil play entered into this logic?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:56 | 2719036 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

impeach obama over manning?


HAHAHAHAH. You are talking about US Imperial Military right? Even CIA experiments on their own citzens with MK ULTRA.


Do you know what US military did with American tortured POWs in vietnam at Hanoi Hilton??????


They left them there!


You know who told the Congress that nobody else was left behind? McCain and Kerry......coincidental that BOTh of them ran for presidency later???? they blocked funding to look for American POWs transferred to Russia territories for further torture.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:41 | 2719267 maxcody
maxcody's picture


You are one sicko - I sure you were not in Vietnam to confirm this pseudo -fact!

I am a Vietnam Vet.  And may not always like McCain on politics but he is an American Hero.  I am sure he has done more in hour than you will do in a lifetime.  You are a low


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 22:42 | 2719593 sumo
sumo's picture

And are you particularly proud of the way Mr Keating Five rolls here?

"Included in the evidence that McCain and his government allies suppressed or tried to discredit is a transcript of a senior North Vietnamese general's briefing of the Hanoi Politburo, discovered in Soviet archives by an American scholar in the 1990s. The briefing took place only four months before the 1973 peace accords. The general, Tran Van Quang, told the Politburo members that Hanoi was holding 1,205 American prisoners but would keep many of them at war's end as leverage to ensure getting reparations from Washington."

"On November 11, 1992, Dolores Alfond, sister of missing airman Capt. Victor Apodaca and chair of the National Alliance of Families, an organization of relatives of POW/MIAs, testified at one of the Senate committee's public hearings. She asked for information about data the government had gathered from electronic devices used in a classified program known as PAVE SPIKE.

The devices were primarily motion sensors, dropped by air, designed to pick up enemy troop movements. But they also had rescue capabilities. Someone on the ground--a downed airman or a prisoner on a labor gang--could manually enter data into the sensor, which were regularly collected electronically by US planes flying overhead. Alfond stated, without any challenge from the committee, that in 1974, a year after the supposedly complete return of prisoners, the gathered data showed that a person or people had manually entered into the sensors--as US pilots had been trained to do--"no less than 20 authenticator numbers that corresponded exactly to the classified authenticator numbers of 20 US POW/MIAs who were lost in Laos." Alfond added, says the transcript: "This PAVE SPIKE intelligence is seamless, but the committee has not discussed it or released what it knows about PAVE SPIKE."

McCain, whose POW status made him the committee's most powerful member, attended that hearing specifically to confront Alfond because of her criticism of the panel's work. He bellowed and berated her for quite a while. His face turning anger-pink, he accused her of "denigrating" his "patriotism." The bullying had its effect--she began to cry."

McCain is a corrupt coward and a piece of shit. Go ahead and salute.


Mon, 08/20/2012 - 00:13 | 2719759 Tom Terrific
Tom Terrific's picture

I wish I could have given you 1000 upticks

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 00:03 | 2719742 Tom Terrific
Tom Terrific's picture

And you sir are a bonefide American Idiot

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:51 | 2719028 Seer
Seer's picture

"unless we impeach Obama"

Care to reach back and indict Bush, Cheney et al? (fuck, we could continue back into time until we're blue in the face- it's the Fucking System!)

"Classified" is a bit questionable.  Much of the shit was out there.

As is with the case of war, the primary purpose is for govt to silence dissent within it's borders.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:58 | 2719042 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

"impeach obama"


either believe that obama is puppet...meaning threat is coming from higher up...owners of america.

OR, believe that Obama is a dictator who can make you rich by giving you special welfare.

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 01:32 | 2719830 Ben Dover
Ben Dover's picture

Who determines what is classified?

If the FED balance sheets were all of a sudden declared "classified" would that be ok?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:54 | 2718810 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

Bradley Manning was arrested for Treason (I do not support that charge).

This marine was detained for exercising the first amendment, huuuuge difference there bud.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:05 | 2718942 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

I don't know about treason, but copying classified information (no matter HOW classified) and publishing with the intent of embarassing your country--while you are supposedly serving your country, is certainly against some law.

In any event, he is a squealing little woos.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:30 | 2718990 upWising
upWising's picture

It seems obvious to everyone reading here that the old guy playing with his ball(s) is the squealing little woos here.  We think we hear your mom shouting down to the basement that your Spaghetti-O's are ready and that you need to wash your hands (for obvious reasons both your mother, and all of us here, can plainly see).  Don't forget to zip up your pants CAREFULLY this time.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:00 | 2719045 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

History is on Manning's side. but doesn't mean he is going to have an easy life.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:41 | 2719008 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"... is certainly against some law."

Why, sir, that would be the law against treason.  Without such a law, the regime is suicidal.

"In any event, he is a squealing little woos."

Not that there's anything wrong with that lifestyle ;-)

And, well, when did a fricken' E-3 doggie get access to all of that SCI?  That is the real story.

- Ned

{E-3 doggie, not that there is anything wrong with that </inside baseball wink>}

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:37 | 2719256 Mysteerious Roo...
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman's picture


The Manning case is more complicated than you seem to realize. There are two things to consider. First, he said that he had done it to strike a blow for "gay rights." That's hardly a justification for what he did. However, he did reveal evidence of war crimes (the video of our brave troops blowing away a motorist and a man and his two children who were coming to the motorists' aid). Then our glorious comrade troops laughed about it and said something to the effect that the death of the children that they had gunned down in cold blood from afar was their father's fault for having taken them into a war zone, as though they had a choice about being in a war zone. So his "gay rights" thing is not vaild, but his revelation of a war crime was his duty, according to military regulations and the Geneva Conventions (The Law of Land Warfare).


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 14:20 | 2718488 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

Indeed, SD.  Meanwhile, I'm enjoying a Barbar brew courtesy of Brasserie Lefebvre....given the state of things, you never know when it might be your last!

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 15:33 | 2718648 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

In other news..

The word arrest was officially removed from the English language, by the Ministry of Truth.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 14:02 | 2718413 monoloco
monoloco's picture

Jesus fucking Christ, how long before they start rounding up Zerohedge posters who have made comments about pitchforks and banksters dangling from light poles?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 14:09 | 2718449 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

Soon. But they go for the low-hanging fruit first. Dude posted under his real name and address on FB.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 14:22 | 2718495 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

FB should change the ticker to FBI...or possibly CIA.  

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:47 | 2718781 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

The Secret Service visited MMA fighter Jacob Volkmann after he said in an interview that "someone needs to knock some sense into Obama".

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:30 | 2718877 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Trace book.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:49 | 2719022 nonclaim
nonclaim's picture

Until "detention"... then there wont be a trace you ever exist.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:20 | 2719092 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

You don't seriously think that they do not know the name and address of everyone posting here. That is about the easiest thing they do in a day dude.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 21:15 | 2719240 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Burning, I would say they could know, but it's a process and it requires time and energy.  Your defense for now is all the other needles in the haystack.  There's more data than knowledge.

It's a process and yes, you can do things to move to the head of the queue. 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 15:31 | 2718645 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

ZH'ers pose no threat as they are unlikely to act; still too fat and happy, myself included.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 15:34 | 2718650 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

...then they came for me, but there was nobody left to speak for me"

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 15:58 | 2718681 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

don't worry, yous already on the list niggas.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:36 | 2718759 CH1
CH1's picture

This is ZeroHedge... the word is Bitchez.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:34 | 2718886 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

Mmmmmm. 'niggas' works, too.  Free speech, remember?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:32 | 2718994 upWising
upWising's picture

"coloured people of colour" works also

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:43 | 2719014 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"up heah in the nawth, we call them 'chigros"

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:03 | 2718692 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

You sure they haven't started already? How would you know if anyone is missing? Someone vacationing in Bermuda looks the same from the outside as a trip to Gitmo. Probably a lot different if you're the 'vacationer'.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:02 | 2718824 CptAwesome
CptAwesome's picture

Remember last season's winners, Whittman, Price and Hadad!

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:27 | 2719106 Kayman
Kayman's picture

I thought the concensus was to guillotine the criminal bankers, after they weaved their wicker receiving basket.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:41 | 2719266 Mysteerious Roo...
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman's picture


The second-most disturbing thing is that the man was taken to a mental hospital. It's precisely the old Soviet method for handling inconvenient truth-tellers.


Mon, 08/20/2012 - 02:06 | 2719856 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

NYC Cop Committed to Psyche Ward Over Whistle-Blowing



The Law Office of Jon L. Norinsberg and Cohen & Fitch, LLP recently filed a lawsuit against the City of New York and high ranking members of the NYPD on behalf of Police Officer Adrian Schoolcraft. This lawsuit details PO Schoolcraft’s harrowing experience at the hands of NYPD chiefs and commanders, who plotted a coordinated and concentrated scheme to silence, intimidate, threaten, and retaliate against him for his documentation and disclosure of corruption within the NYPD. Specifically, the NYPD established an illegal quota policy for the issuance of summonses and arrests and instructed police officers to lie on police reports in order to distort COMPSTAT statistics.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:47 | 2719278 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

When they do come for us, let's try for one last post. The end will be here.

What is that clicking noise in my phone?

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 03:14 | 2719890 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Your inheritor of thieves' paranoid imagination at work.

Nothing more...

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:47 | 2719279 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

When they do come for us, let's try for one last post. The end will be here.

What is that clicking noise in my phone?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 15:06 | 2718591 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

Ok, so let me be the sacrificial lamb who asks the question when do ZH'ers organize and actually accomplish something? When you consider the intellect available to this forum, I must say I'm shocked by the inertia. It's time to get off your sofa and do something; or is ZH nothing more than a forum for mental masturbation?

Feel free to downarrow if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 15:22 | 2718625 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

No you are totaly and completely wrong, *smart* people win by outliving their opponents and not by charging the Bastille to help a Robespierre take over

all regimes always and first go for the 'intelligencia' those they can convert may live those that resist are killed, look at what the Bolsheviks did the Mao-ists the Khmer Rouge etc. when people like that come to power it's not wise to wear your glasses if you know what I mean

The best course of action for *smart* people is to cut rope and go, to paraphrase, it's not heroic to die for your ideals it's heroic to let the other bastard die for his

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 15:52 | 2718673 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

At this *early* stage, the best course of action may simply be dissemination of fact. I say this with full awareness of the effectiveness of TBTF's propaganda. If you do nothing else, buy a ZH cap.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:37 | 2718765 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Cynical people are good at asymmetric thinking and acting. Guerilla warfare, bitchez!

OTOH, being careful in times like these has extra significance and I'd advise my fellow ZHers to surf anonymously. Use a proxy connection or install some kind of a software that hides youir device's real IP address. Said software is available for both smartphones and PC's.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:45 | 2718910 Sanksion
Sanksion's picture

What if said softwares are run by the NDAA ? 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:24 | 2718985 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Then the guys who hacked it would've noticed that. I d/l my software through torrent trackers (RIP Demonoid!) and look for entries from trusted sources, i.e. the teams behind the crack code -> Razor1911, reloaded, nil, skidrow are some of those. If you're still suspicious, click the link provided in #5 of Tyler's Suggested Reading (under the New Comments ticker)...

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:58 | 2718932 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

No need to hide, hiding suggests that you are wrong.  Overload them with protest, spread the message and make them continue to oppress.  The more oppression, the more resistance, until they can oppress no longer.

Ghandi, bitchez

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:43 | 2719013 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

"No need to hide, hiding suggests that you are wrong."

...or that you disagree with a totalitarian paradigm where staying anonymous saves you and your family from being eaten by the "authoritarian darkness". No human being is expendable, the resistance needs you to keep on keeping on!

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 22:40 | 2722503 SteveOoooo
SteveOoooo's picture

Wouldn't that be just another red-flag - attempting to hide is an indicator of subversion?  

If I were TPTB, I'd set up lots of so-called "annonymous proxy" sites, just to troll for smart guys, like yous guys...  

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:10 | 2718953 CH1
CH1's picture

At this *early* stage, the best course of action may simply be dissemination of fact.


If you won't act now, you won't act later.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:46 | 2719021 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

CH1: are you available for a poker game?  I suck at the game but I can be patient.

But "don't call my bluff".

- Ned

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:35 | 2719121 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Starve the parasitic tax-eaters. And watch the Debt expand exponentially... Oh right, that's already happening.

When the Producers step back and watch the world go by... it is protest enough.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 20:21 | 2719214's picture


If you won't act now, you won't act later.


Are you channeling Ron Popeil?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 21:29 | 2719368 CH1
CH1's picture

Hehe... that was pretty good. :)

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:16 | 2718719 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

How many have read Gladwell's "The Tipping pointy"? It should be required reading for those hoping to topple TBTF. If the ZH' mantra reaches critical mass, an end to the Fed and TBTF could be achieved, or perhaps more likely, the arrival of the fascist state will have been effected.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:29 | 2718743 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

You might enjoy Camus's The Plague (if you haven't already read it).

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:09 | 2718952 DVDBeaver
DVDBeaver's picture

True, when they outlawed gold and silver transactions in the French revolution - people just buried it in their garden... and waited.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:02 | 2719049 Seer
Seer's picture

Or, as Bertrand Russell put it: I wouldn't die for my beliefs because I may be wrong. (or similar words).

I believe that during the Nazi rule the German Jews who resisted DID fare better than those who did not.

I promote peace, though I am not a pacifist.

What's that saying in football?  The best offense is a good defense?  If you have ground, keep/hold it!

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:16 | 2718718 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

 I must say I'm shocked by the inertia. It's time to get off your sofa and do something

Lead the way, Sarge.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:08 | 2718838 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

Let's not lose perspective.  These rulers are rats terrorizing mice, while looming over them is a hooded cobra whose diameter is the size of a storm drain (God).  For the pious, all's well that ends well. 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:36 | 2718761 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

You presume much when you presume we are not doing anything.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:42 | 2718773 CH1
CH1's picture

when do ZH'ers organize and actually accomplish something?

We do NOT organize. That is the original sin of political corruption. And, it would be the greatest gift we could ever give TPTB. It would give them a single target to kill... something they're good at.

We each act as we ourselves see fit, and create a million micro-movements toward building the world we want, bypassing the slave world TPTB run.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 17:10 | 2718841 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

The Starfish and the Spider is a short read, well worth everyone's time.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 23:00 | 2719638 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

This and OODA loops will get you far.

John Robb turned me on to both at his Global Guerrilla website.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:06 | 2719066 Seer
Seer's picture

Not like any "famous" person needs to be brought up to validate your excellent post, but it reminds me of a great quote:

"You never change anything by fighting the existing. To change something, build a new model and make the existing obsolete."

- Buckminster Fuller

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!