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Guest Post: Former Marine Arrested For Patriotic Posts On Facebook
Submitted by Brandon Smith from Alt-Market
Former Marine Arrested For Patriotic Posts On Facebook
First the establishment started going after current serving military men for their outspoken political views on Facebook and other web venues, men like Marine Sergeant Gary Stein. Now, it seems the government is going after veterans as well. This is the classic pattern of a burgeoning totalitarian state; attack a small group first (outspoken serving military) which the public ignores because it affects them little personally, then slowly expand out to eventually include everyone else. To all those insipid bottom feeders out there who refused to defend Gary Stein's right to free speech, here is what you have wrought. Because of your ignorance, the government has been able to set a social precedent which they now plan to apply to a whole new group of people, starting with former Marine Brandon Raub. The common statist slave will give the typical coward's response, which would sound a little something like this:
"...When are people going to learn that Facebook isn't private? You would have to be stupid to express such views where everyone can see..."
"They didn't arrest him, they just 'detained' him..."
"He's former military and should be 'ashamed' of his comments against the government., blah blah blah, etc..."
The bottom line is, the 1st Amendment is NOT conditional. ALL speech must be protected, no matter who you are, or where you happen to be speaking. Just because our current criminal government decides 1st Amendment protections do not apply to Facebook does not mean they have the authority to make such distinctions. In fact, the Constitution explicitly outlines how they are restricted from making such distinctions. If a government entity, ANY government entity, attempts to violate Constitutional restrictions, it must be removed by any means necessary.
Take note that the FBI used the accusation of "terrorist threats" by Brandon Raub as an excuse for the arrest even though there is no indication that any actual threats were present on his Facebook page..
(Brandon's comments included observations that 9-11 was done by the government (even going to such length, and an interestingly detailed thesis, of providing evidence to augment this), the War on Terror is a lie, Americans are killing innocent people in the ME, the current federal banking system is corrupt and unfeasible to Americans, and that the George Bush's family rapes little children)
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/august192012/marine-fakcebook-arrest-t.php
I would say that all of these claims have enough circumstantial evidence behind them to warrant a serious independent investigation, and even if they didn't, there is no law against "conspiracy theory", at least not yet...
The police and FBI also failed to read Raub his Miranda Rights. Could this be one of the first public instances of the enforcement of NDAA detainment provisions against a U.S. citizen as a so called "domestic terrorist"? You know, those detainment provisions that Neo-Cons and Neo-Libs alike claim "don't exist"?
My question for the statist slaves is, how soon will it be before they get to you? Do you really believe your complacency and apathy will save you? Has that kind of philosophy saved any slave under any other tyranny of the past? This is NOT a free country anymore, and if we do not act to defend each individual who suffers under the weight of bureaucratic oppression, then everyone will lose everything. It is time to pick a side.
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Great quote!
Thanks for posting.
Proves FB may go to zero real soon
I have no comprehension why ANYONE would use facebook for anything other than business purposes (e.g., free advertising).
How else would people know where their friends just went to the toilet, or had a coffee? Serious information is at stake.
My wife uses it to communicate with folks back in her country of birth. I don't think that it's really all the great for business purposes: GM bailed, stating that they didn't think that it was worth it.
Facebook is CIA.
So is Google. Use start page instead for your searches https://www.startpage.com/
DuckDuckGo.com is good too.
Use http://www.openstreetmap.org/ for maps.
Couple it with Tor or I2P
"Use start page..."
Been usig it for a while, works well.
Also load:
http://www.abine.com/dntdetail.php
In 5 weeks of casual computer use it has blocked 20,000 social, ad and company trackings! It blocked 13 of these when i logged onto ZH right now.
As far as I can see this guy went wrong when he did not shoot first and ask questions later , yes he would of been killed eventually, but it is better than siting in Gitmo for the rest of your life . In most people eyes (except the scared ones) he would of died a hero protecting his country from an oppressive Government . Next time this happens to anyone SHOOT FIRST. If you do not agree with this way, then there is plenty of room in a FEMA camp for the cowards.
lol you first, dude. encouraging others to martyr themselves is pretty lame in my book
I am not asking anyone to martyr themselves, it is your choise FEMA or the start of a revolution. Dr Benway you seem to be a good slave the Government should have no problems with you , who knows they may even pay you to inform on your friends, but that is pritty lame in my book. I have no problems about going first , I would rather die free than live in tyranny.
Abit, these are all good questions about when to resist and how. Frankly, most will not resist. You hope for you day in court and to be exonerated. On the admin-regulatory side you just try to absorb the latest government intrusion and extension of control and hope the rest of your life goes on. You mark the new redlight cameras and take a new way to work to avoid becoming revenue fodder.
I see the primary problem as the triumph of hope over historical experience. The other side is that most the people posting here are probably productive decent people. You have homes, cars, family members, pets and you believe there is a future for you. You are still invested in daily civil life. You don't grab a gun and go get "them" so quickly. In some sense, your property and family are hostages for the State. You have a stake in civil life so you can tolerate a whole lot of Statism.
The last thing is that "they" the powers that increase oppression are large, well organized, well armed and have a facade of legal legitimacy still. You are unorganized, relatively unarmed and have no legal legitimacy, even if you have moral legitimacy. You must be willing to be a martyr to your cause and be painted as a terrorist or malcontent of some sort.
They isolate and make an example of you if you stick your head up. I will say it is an old survival instinct to keep your head down and let them take your neighbor...use communist states as an example in order to survive, but if you really want something better for you and your progeny you have to go something more akin to the American Revolution. Note, that that revolution was relatively well organized, had a cause, moral legitimacy and had roughly the same arms as the oppressors.
So, most will resort the political process for activity and while repeating the same things will hope for a different result. That is what I do, for now.
FreedomGuy - you need to get a new handle. You write like the UnFreedomGuy.
All arguments to shut-up. Patrick Henry you are not.
The more people that won't shut-up, the more difficult the PTB agenda becomes.
Try reading it again. I am explaining why people tolerate what we do. It is a sort of frog in water. I am not advocating passivity. I actually speak to groups at times and I tend to focus on the economics and liberty side of the issues. I advocate action and I predict the grim future with inaction.
Patrick Henry died. How many do you really really think will go that far? How many did in his day? He is an example because he was unusually passionate not because he was an example of the average citizen. There was no instant organized rebellion after his death. Ideas take time and without them there is no useful change.
I am a rationalist with a passionate love of liberty, but I am not grabbing a gun and running into the street, not while there are other realistic avenues. Any resistance has to be well organized or you have to make a big enough point to be a martyr, as did Patrick Henry....God bless his soul.
The other side is that most the people posting here are probably productive decent people. You have homes, cars, family members, pets and you believe there is a future for you.
_______________________
Blatantly consumption activities all listed.
How 'American'.
I do not consume my family, Sweethart.
... but you do consume your pets? That's Chinese citizenism, MsC! Tsk, tsk....
Bad i-doggy, bad!
;-)
Edit: Say, come here puppy dog... I have a nice sauce, er, uh, special bath waiting for you...
You miss the point. The point is that productive people have a stake in society, an investment and a civil life. You don't wreck all those things and throw them into the fire of revolution unless there is something very big at stake or you have lost all those things.
One of the more horrifying aspects of this incident is that they took the man to a MENTAL HOSPITAL. The old Soviet method for dealing with inconvenient truth-tellers. Which is worse--a concentration camp or a psycho hospital? One doesn't know whether to laugh or cry.
Agreed Mysterious. Very creepy. Consider the Aurora shooter. A brilliant, highly sought after neurology student, accepted into some program in CO. Emerging a few months later, in court as a drooling, classy-eyed incompetent. What happend to this kid in CO? What are they doing to the Marine they're holding over the weekend?
https://www.facebook.com/brandon.raub?sk=wall
This is the guy's facebook wall. Read it yourselves and see why they took him. It's odd that it is still up, all considering.
Ah, yes, someone posts silly things, so the uber-righteous state gets to throw him in a psycho ward. Because they are never responsible for killing people. Right....
Bottom line: Whether this guy was flipping out or not, Facebook IS the Dept. of PreCrime.
Minority report?
Yes.
Besides his conspiracy theories, this guy quoted Charlie Chaplan's Great Dictator speech, and a swollen members song (Bring me Down: Sharpen up my axe and I am back, I'm here to sever heads, Compulsive obsessive, I'm also aggressive, My mouth is the message, my life is a lesson, my pulse is a blessing).
Saying revolution a lot, quoting violent rap lyrics, and beliveing conspiracy theories shouldn't be putting anyone on a watch list.
He's in for a psych eval now, I guess we'll find out Monday if this guy really wanted to start a violent revolution, or if he, like the comedian Bill Hicks, wanted to start a revolution of ideas.
It seems that the lone gunman meme has gone viral. The timing could not be any better. As we all know, more and more people are (becoming) poorer, un(der)employed, frustrated, and (getting) desperate. TPTB know this, after all, they are of course behind it. Almost too convenient.
All it takes is one or two Manchurian patsies (a la Richard Reid - the functionally mentally retarded Shoe Bomber) deployed in the right way at the right time, and the copycat phenomenon does the rest - naturally, aided by a militarized SS-style police force and complicit propagandist media.
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs21/f/2007/296/3/a/The_Individual_Eleven_by_...
Winner.
Yeah, it's all marketing for embracing TBTB. They've done this for a LONG time against anarchists: always look for an opportunity to paint the picture, be it via kids who don't have a clue (and are just out to rail against anything they can place their energies toward), or via agents provocateurs.
At some point TPTB won't have the money to buy/create snitches...
Re. Phsyc eval - I guess we'll find out Monday if this guy ...
By Monday, they could turn this guy into anything they want. They could be sticking needles in him right now.
I hope he's OK.
And what's with these out of uniform Gestapo, flashing no authority, telling this family what they can and can not do in their own driveway?!?
Swollen Members are still together?
I remember in 2003 after a show, the BMX-looking kid banged the single mother living across the hall.
So they can see whos looking at it?
I think you're asking if the overseers can see who looks at Brandon's FB posts.
If so, the answer is OF COURSE.
All your thoughts are belong to us!
I tried, but I can not see his "wall". Do I need an FB account to do so? If so, not gonna happen. Can someone who's seen what the Marine supposedly wrote share or summarize what's there?
Here is one of his posts;
http://www.datehookup.com/Thread-995745.htm
Libertarian scholars consider left to be central planning and right to be anarchy. That would make your statement quite false. You think republicans are right-wing because you still listen to the MSM too much.
You need to look beyond left and right and understand things in a grid
economics (control/freedom) x axis
political/social (control/freedom) y axis
It is much better at describing political systems. When you do that with the current American government it is economic centerist and increasingly authoritarian political/social: It's beginning to look a lot like Hitler... Everywhere you go...
www.politicalcompass.org
No, they don't. Only linear thinkers think that every ideology fits on a fucking line.
Then I am a linear thinker. Since everyone uses the terms "left" and "right" for the sake of clarity the ideas and terms have to be defined. The terms often used now come out of the early 20th century and give the absurd idea that National Socialists were the far right while their close kin, the Soviet Socialists were far left. Both are totalitarian governments in practice with the difference really being private property and markets. Fascists allow them but control them. Full Socialists own them.
The modern linear version which uses two crossing lines of government power and individual liberty as the definition of left and right works very well. Then the terms liberty-libertarian-liberal all line up. Our American founders were considered liberals in that they favored maximum individual liberty. Today, they would be considered conservatives.
It is really elegant when you see the diagram. On the far right you have true anarachists with no government, then libertarians and small similar parties. Left and right of center you have Republicans and Democrats (in America) followed by the leftward progression of Democratic Socialists, National Socialists (Fascists), and finally Soviet Socialists or communists. Garden variety dictators are in there, too. It is lovely but the left really hates it because all the bad actors in history are on the left and that just won't do...even though it makes sense
...at least to linear thinkers.
Further fodder to the notion that the MSM is programming people with a bunch of shit...
Here's something that turns a lot of things upside down:
[Source: http://anarchism.pageabode.com/afaq/150-years-of-libertarian]
In terms of America, we find Benjamin Tucker (a leading individualist anarchist) discussing “libertarian solutions” to land use in February, 1897. As we discuss in section G.3, the Individualist Anarchists attacked capitalist (i.e., right-“libertarian”) property rights in land as the “land monopoly” and looked forward to a time when “the libertarian principle to the tenure of land” was actually applied. [Liberty, no. 350, p. 5] The 1920s saw communist-anarchist Bartolomeo Vanzetti argue that:
---
Sacco and Vanzetti died for true liberty... died at the hands of the State.
And from http://www.spunk.org/texts/otherpol/critique/sp000713.txt
The Proudhonist anarchy that Tucker represented was largely superseded in Europe by revolutionary collectivism and anarcho-communism. The same changeover occurred in the US, although mainly among subgroups of working class immigrants who were settling in urban areas. For these recent immigrants caught up in tenuous circumstances within the vortex of emerging corporate capitalism, a revolutionary anarchy had greater relevancy than go slow mutualism. On the other hand, individualist anarchism also persisted within the United States because it had the support of a different (more established, middle class, and formally educated) audience that represented the earlier stream of indigenous North American radicalism reflecting this region's unique, and rapidly fading, decentralized economic development. Although individualist and communist anarchy are fundamentally one and the same doctrine, their respective supporters still ended up at loggerheads over tactical differences. [14] But in any event, the clash between the two variants was ultimately resolved by factors beyond their control. Just as anarcho-communism entered a political twilight zone in the 1890s, American mutualism did likewise. Tucker's bookstore operation burned down in 1908, and this not only terminated publication of Liberty, but also what remained of the individualist anarchism ``movement.'' The aggregate of support upon which this thread of thought had depended was already in dissipation.[15] Individualist anarchy after 1900 receded rapidly to the radical outback. What then does any of this have to do with Libertarianism? In effect, nothing, aside from a few unsupported claims. Libertarianism is not anarchism, but actually a form of liberalism. It does, however, have a point of origin that is traceable to the same juncture as anarchism's marginalization. So in this limited sense there is a shared commonality.Nice post, Seer. The way I differentiate it is that the far right or libertarian anarchists are the true no-government types. The leftist anarchists you see at the G8 meetings use anarchy as a tool to achieve a socialist state. For them, the term anarchy means a breakdown of civil government or even revolution from which they hope to create some sort of powerful collectivist government.
Anarchists of the sort you mention are the true meaning of the word as in a form of government as opposed to Mon-archist, Olig-archist, etc. I like these types and as I have time I would like to read more of their ideas. As for now, I have gotten as far right as libertarian.
The really amazing thing is that once you start thinking and seeing things as a free person you can never go back. Once you debate ideas like "Do I own myself?" and "Am I here to be ruled?" you work things out for yourself and you see the world differently. As Mencken stated, the most dangerous thing in the world is a person who thinks for himself (sum). The other side is that you are perennially depressed as you watch modern history move inexorably left and to its own destruction, all of it being predictable.
This is shameful that he would be arrested.
http://ericsprott.blogspot.ca/
Exactly! Socialism can be left of right, but it is totalitarian.
Does it really matter if the laws were passed by one party or both ?? Do you see ANYTHING troubling about this ???
Female Clown Barfly: As soon as that camera is off, he gonna fuck that little dog.
(Or throw it off a bridge)
WTF?
I'm not advocating for either, but people that say weird, crazy shit like you just did are free to roam. It is the people that speak truth that are locked up.
Makes perfect fucking sense.
Robot Traders Mom
Riddle me this, do you know Steins's history? Do you know if he has any mental illness? Do you know the entire story behind the detention?
Maybe you don't understand how many mentally ill vets are roaming the streets.
Maybe you just think Stein has a pretty mouth.
You have read three or four paragraphs and that makes you expert enough to claim this guy was speaking "truth" and that was the ONLY reason he was questioned.
The difference between assholes like you and people like me is I QUESTION EVERYTHING!
You think only one side or group is manipulating you?
They all are.
Good luck with that truthiness.
Stein has an eerie resemblance to the Joker shooter.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0TUWpD__j-I/0.jpg
I agree there is disinformation everywhere. I don't think any sane-minded person on here would disagree, but that is not what we are talking about.
I saw the video. Was he read his rights? Has he been given due process? It doesn't matter if he's crazy or whatever you are saying, due process is our right. It is what protects us from tyranny (H/T Thomas Jefferson)
You are right. As I told a friend when this happened, we don't know whether he was refusing to take meds or to keep medical appointments or whether some relations of his (or neighbors) had signed the necessary papers to have him committed for observation, which is a standard and lawful procedure in at least one state, and probably in several or even all.
BUTT, in the video, there were at least two people (a man and a woman) who were at the man's home with him, and judging by their reactions, I just got the gut feeling--and I know how (in)valid that is for drawing a conclusion about this--that his abduction was not only unexpected (at least by them) but also unfounded. Time will tell.
The "authorities" will publish their "explanation," but presumably, so will the two people who were present (and making the video) when the "arest" took place, so we shall see. But you are quite right in what you have said. Still and all, I just have a gut feeling--worthwhile or not--that his is a travesty. We shall see.
May I suggest that you research the terms Socialism and Fascism? Then consider a hybrid of Fascism and Marxism. Please do so prior to any future posts.
This is FASCISM and WARLORDSHIP. This is not any kind of socialism and not any kind of capitalism and not any kind of economic system. This is a WARLORD POLICE STATE devoid of any socalism.
Socialism is ONLY, NOTHING ELSE, THE collective ownership BY THE PEOPLE of the means of production.
This nonsense definition of socialism that every police-state action is socialism HAS TO END.
This kind of ignorance is tolerated on other blogs but this is ZEROHEDGE, BITCHEZ.
If you want to be that ignorant you have to sign in as one of our favourites and blame the Liberatrians and the freemarket.
Sam Francis, an astute observer, called our system "Anarcho-tyranny.'
The alpha-male social hierarchy by any way possible.
Doesn't matter if it is left or right. Not to the alphas.
might I suggest you do not under-estimate the alpha female.
What Is Fascism? merger of state and corporation
Wow... for a second there I thought it was the real MDB, posting something that was true!
Fasicsm: when you say what they decide that everybody should say, you're fine.... unless you have a problem with that...
Well, there's the rub. Therein lies the problem.
Had a political science (oxymoron) teacher who claimed to have coined the phrase: "Free speech just means that you are free to say what everyone else is saying."
Eagles' lyrics to On The Border:
Cruisin' down the center of the two-way street Wond'rin' who is really in the driver's seat Mindin' my bus'ness, along comes big brother Says, "Son, you better get on one side or the other"
I'm out on the border, I'm walkin' the line Don't you tell me 'bout your law and order I'm tryin' to change this water to wine
After a hard day, I'm safe at home Foolin' with my baby on the telephone Out of nowhere somebody cuts in and says "Hmm, you in some trouble, boy, we know where you been"
I'm out on the border, I thought this was a private line Don't you tell me 'bout your law and order I'm tryin' to change this water to wine
Never mind your name just give us your number Never mind your face just show us your card And we wanna know whose wing are you under You better step to the right or we can make it hard
I'm stuck on the border, all I wanted was some peace of mind Don't you tell me 'bout your law and order I'm tryin' to change this water to wine
On the border (Leave me be, I'm just walking this line) I'm out on the border, on the border (All I wanted was some peace of mind, peace of mind)
I'm out on the border, on the border (Can't you see I'm tryin' to change this water to wine?) I'm out on the border, on the border (Don't you tell me 'bout your law and order)
I'm out on the border (I'm sick and tired of all your law and order) On the border (Say goodnight in here) I'm out on the border, on the border
Good post. I got a chuckle out of this:
"...political science (oxymoron)..."
But may I be school-marmish for a moment, and just say that "science" is derived from the Latin scientia, which simply means "knowledge." As in the German "Wissenschaft"--same thing.
/schoolmarmishness off.
Another way to look at it is the establishment of a socialized agenda within a defined state.
Communism is looking for a worldwide stage, facisim just wants to keep it local.
Since when are Soveriegn citizens considered Anarchists?
And what differentiates "fake currency" from alternate currency or local currencies?
I do so enjoy casting a wide net to create fear in the genpop.
https://www.mail.com/news/us/1508848-suspects-deputy-killings-linked-to-...
At least some of the seven people arrested in a fatal shootout with Louisiana deputies have been linked to violent anarchists on the FBI's domestic terrorism watch lists, a sheriff said Saturday.
Detectives had been monitoring the group before Thursday's shootout in Laplace in which two deputies were killed and two more wounded, said DeSoto Parish Sheriff Rodney Arbuckle. His detectives and other law enforcement discovered the suspects were heavily armed adherents to an ideology known as the "sovereign citizens" movement.
The FBI has classified "sovereign citizens" as people who believe they are free from all duties of a U.S. citizen, like paying taxes. The FBI considers the group's members a danger for making threats to judges and law enforcement, using fake currency and impersonating police officers.
Are you secretly Million Dollar Bonus? This has to be sarcasm. Please tell me it is. I want to live in a fantasy land and believe no one can be this stupid
Really
That's how you comment when you live in state of Dumbfukistan...
That's how you comment when you live in state of Dumbfukistan...
Here is Brandon's Facebook postings right before his detainment. He was saying the country is run by a shadow government that enjoys raping and sacrificing children, 911 was a inside job, gov't is poisoning us, and he was actively recruiting for the Revolution among other things.
https://www.facebook.com/brandon.raub?sk=wall
I disagree - this system resembles Fascism more to me. In an effort to fight Socalism we have (knowingly or otherwise) embraced the "enemy of my enemy".
It's always a conspiracy theory... until it becomes a conspiracy FACT...
~~~
In other news...
Lord Rothschild takes £130m bet against the euro
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9484435/Lord-Rothschild-takes-130m-bet-against-the-euro.html
Bank of England deputy governor Paul Tucker warned banks they could collapse 'before Christmas'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9484419/Bank-of-England-deputy-governor-Paul-Tucker-warned-banks-they-could-collapse-before-Christmas.html
Dont forget Soros dumping financial stocks and putting his money into gold
paulsson too, but both paper gold
there are too many paulsons - but john paulson the hedge fund manager is a loser since he banged it out on subprime mortgages.
And FB ??!!!!
DING DING DING
WINNER WINNER
CHICKEN DINNER
Were people fucking born yesterday? What's next - a headline that Wellington has been defeated at Waterloo?
He was ?
To your fastest horse, and away to London to alert Freiherr Von Rothschild!
The BOE "before christmas" warning was for 2011 though ... still, I wonder what Santa's got for them this year ... given things have gotten so much better now?
A "certificate" for a lump of coal?
Thanks for the link...Looks like this trade started about 8 months ago based on charts. Any guesses on how much lower the cattle call will take this trade and make profits for selling at 145-140 range? How much play time this trade will get from the MSM? GS having targets based on this news story?
Curious if any of this occurs or if this trades stays behind the scenes.
Obvious nonsense - why would Lord Rothschild bet on the future of an asset he owns...
And £130M to a Rothschild - these people bet more than that on darts and billiards at the pub.
links were just 'links'... presented with no comment... It's for geniuses like YOU to figure out what they mean...
Wow. His comments are so tame compared to regular ZH fare..
If his comments warrant detention, what do they have in plan for you?
they can arrest him and the sheeple won't blink... because he is a scary ex marine... who might go crazy and hurt someone.... /s
What did he say?
Whatever it was, apparently it needed more Democracy according to the critics from the pentagram.
Or maybe it needed more cowbell..
I am a strong supporter of the 1st Amendment, but there actually are well recognized exceptions. For example, threatening imminent violence is not protected speech. Defaming a person is not protected speech. There is the over-used example of yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater.
P.S. I just found a link that includes some threatening statements that he made including that he was sharpening his axe to sever heads, and that he was coming for the Generals. In my opinion that would still be protected speech unless there was other context that made the threats appear real, but I don't think this author is quite correct to call those statements "patriotic."
What is the link to these alleged statements?
http://libertycrier.com/u-s-constitution/former-marine-arrested-by-fbi-f...
The screen shots at the bottom of the page are likely the ones he was questioned about.
Thx! Well, I can now see why he made some folks nervous, but seriously... if change is to occur, won't it eventually come to that? I hope not, but at some point people are going to have to stop talking about it and start to take action if we want to "refresh the tree of liberty."
At what point do you draw a line and say no more? Is there such a point? Would we, like the Germans, sit here and watch the Holocaust happen again, for example? I would like to think not, but we certainly have sat here and watched the gov't murder American citizens (including a 16 year old boy) without even bringing any charges against them. We've watched and participated in illegal war after illegal war and watched while a million folks were killed in the ME. I have no solutions, but I'm just wondering...does that line exist and if so...where is it?
I for one believe that there is a peaceful solution. Ron Paul's broad support tells me that a whole lot of our population is starting to see that the Red Team/Blue Team garbage is not Democracy. Of course guys like Alex Jones think that TPTB will force the issue and start putting people in FEMA camps and taking their guns if the population actually begins to demand real change and stops electing puppets of the global elite. I hope guys like him are wrong and that our system of checks and balances eventually rights the ship.
"I for one believe that there is a peaceful solution."
So said the sheep.
RandEater appears to have conjugated with MillionDollarBonus.
I sincerely hope you are right.
"Hope--the unrealistic expectation that everything will turn out all right in spite of every indication to the contrary." (I have no idea who said this.)
Derrick Jensen and an audience once came up with this definition of "hope:"
"hope is a longing for a future condition over which you have no agency; it means you are essentially powerless."
And from an article titled Beyond Hope (http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/170/):
Dude, I hope you are right; but my core tells me you are indulging in fantasy. I up-arrowed you anyway (though I often do the opposite).
I'm sorry to be blunt: Beliefs don't mean a thing.
What is logical? This is clearly a provocation; they're monitoring Veterans, to see if one or more step over the line, and start making threats.
If the guy would've resisted they would've shot him right there on his porch. But he was smart, and didn't. Yes he was dumb to post a threat (of violence). Golden rule: NEVER threaten, just do.
Now they accuse him of resisting arrest. Well well well. Maybe the fascists made a mistake? They've been overconfident, lately. And cases where they blew ex marines brains out never got much attention anywhere.
This is so clear cut though.... Yes they'll continue the provocation. Picking one by one, the guys that have a militairy history and are waking up to the fact their country's been taken over. Until one of em or more snap and start shooting back.
And then all hell will break loose. FEMA camps, mass roundups and searches, Internet takeover, confiscation of communications equipment, computers, weapons, means of transport, stock etc.
It could be even before the elections, if they get the idea that no one's going to turn up to vote for two guys that are on the same side. Because they don't care as much to keep up appearances, so it seems.
Reptil - appearently, he was quoting rap lyrics. If that's not protected speech, then when are the machine sponsored "musicians", producers, etc. that put this out there getting picked up? These words are only wrong when repeated by some member of the audience??
Beliefs of course do mean a lot, but I take you point. More like wishes don't mean much.
Funny, but true about the "elections".
They won't try to take our guns. They'l probably do womething like make the cost of ammor prohibitive.
And there ain't no system of checks and balances.
"...but seriously... if change is to occur, won't it eventually come to that? I hope not, but..."
NO!! No "But"s!
I refuse to think that anything ever "must" come to violence. I will never abandon my belief, at the end of the day, in human ingenuity and ability to solve problems. I will not go down that road that says "but isn;t this where we are going to have to go?"
Those comments made by this person were not "ironic" or "hyperbolic" like so, so many of us here at ZH. We froth and rant; it's the goddam interwebs for chrissakes. But you should be able to tell the diff: his mind was *really thinking* theswe ideas, which were *not* pleasant ideas, and this is not about free speech, it is about being able to tell when woah, this person actually thinks this, literally, and absolutely.
ZH is a speculative site. "Speculative == get thee to an OED! The only acronym which matters!
Wow. Just f'ing wow.
Uncle - Yeah wow! When I see a post like the one you are responding to, I see that some of us choose to be here and some others make a living at it.
So... you're bringing a peace sign to a gunfight?
Fucking brilliant.
To me, looks like FB along with face recognition engine , has a mind reading engine too.
I refuse to think that anything ever "must"...
Your refusal to think doesn't make reality disappear.
You are right in a way, but what can we do? I mean really--in a practical way.
LOL. On that page, one of the first facebook comments reads:
Rodney L. Hendrix
"All of this sounds VERY subdued compared to my rants. I think it is time to take our country back and by that I mean KILL THE TYRANTS. Kill without mercy. Screw the police, the fbi, tsa, nsa, cia and dept of homeland suck-ur-ity."I think he meant that in the nicest way possible...
It is if you call it 'diplomacy'.
"I am a strong supporter of the 1st Amendment, but there actually are well recognized exceptions. For example, threatening imminent violence is not protected speech."
People who think in cliches will always end up as confused as you are. For all of these exceptions the key distinction is intention.
Speech should be 100% free. No exceptions. But we are talking JUST about speech. All the exceptions you have raised have other connotations as well, and it is those connotations which are the subject of laws. For instance, to make a credible threat of violence is illegal, NOT because that speech becomes illegal, but because ANY activity which threatens violence is defined as assault, and is therefore illegal. Defamation is illegal, not because that speech is banned, but because it is illegal to try to damage someone's character unfairly.
So the 'exceptions' you have raised are NOT exceptions to free speech. They are occasions where a damaging crime can be committed through the medium of speech, and it is this crime which is illegal. You might just as well claim that scratching your nose is not completely legal because a mobster might use that as a signal to an associate to murder someone. In such a case it would be the 'giving a signal to murder someone' which would land the mobster in the dock charged with conspiracy to murder, and no one would remark that scratching one's nose is occasionally illegal....
Basically I agree with you, but this comes down to semantics in the end.
Did he cross the line where free speech crosses into credible violent threat?
That's the key question.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azbpmBBtYho
Brandon Raub's FaceBook Posts that Lead to His Arrest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSJuKlFuotA&feature=plcp
Where did the voice-over acquire his phsyc degree from?
Arrest Thomas Jefferson! He said to soak the tree of liberty in the blood of tyrants.
But Jefferson had to the good idea to keep slaves (slave owners are tyrants), and he certainly did not mean to include himself. So it was clear it was 'American' speech.
"The key question," IMO is this: What are we willing to use violence against?
I'm willing to use violence against a murderer, or a rapist, or a thief, etc.
I am not willing to use violence against a guy blowing off steam.
Scribbles on "authorized" pieces of paper don't change this basic concept... except for the confused and/or tyrannized.
I dunno. I still think a specific and credible death threat should be illegal. Say a mobster knocks on my door and threatens to kill me and my family. I would regard that as a crime.
Please note that I am not claiming the ex-marine made any such specific or credible threats, nor do I think, based on available information, that he should have been detained.
Benway - the key question is Who decides.
You are the confused one, but you get the basic concept right that intent is critical. If one yells "fire" in a crowded theater because he believes there is a fire and he can establish some reason why he thought so, he should not be charged with any crime. If a person says "let's hang the bankers!" and it is plainly hyperbole, then it is protected speech. If he yells "let's hang the bankers" to an angry crowd with the clear intent of riling them up to go actually commit violence, his speech is not protected and he can be lawfully arrested for inciting a riot, with no damage done to the Constitution or its intent. He has no right of free speech to call upon people to do violence.
By the way, it is not "illegal" to defame someone in the United States (in some countries it is). In the U.S. you will break no criminal law if you state falsely that your former business partner is dishonest. You merely subject yourself to a lawsuit for damages, and it is not an absolute defense to assert that it was your honest opinion. It is illegal to engage in a conspiracy such as by ordering someone's murder. The speech itself is illegal and not protected under the 1st Amendment.
Good thing they did not have these pesky rules back in 1775. Lots of folks stirring up crowds back then.
How about we refine this just a little and say that political speech is protected by the 1St. The examples given were not political. A further refinement would be commercialspeech. Not protected by the 1st.
How about we refine this just a little and say that political speech is protected by the 1St. The examples given were not political. A further refinement would be commercial speech. Not protected by the 1st.
"just words!"
Reminded me of one of my favorites:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc
It's OK to yell "fire" in a theater when it's actually on fire.
Is it Ok to start a fire (9/11), and then yell "Fire!"? That's what the ZOG did.
Anything to derail the conversation. Maybe you can start calling people "nigger" next?
Sunstein must be proud.
The Ape from Hasbara.
Chris Duane's site has this on it.
http://dont-tread-on.me/?p=21885
If I understand it correctly, besides criticizing foreign policy, he made vague/joking references to revolution.
http://libertycrier.com/u-s-constitution/former-marine-arrested-by-fbi-f....
The posts that probably got him in trouble are in the form of screen grabs at the bottom of the page. I'm not sure I would call these "joking," but they sound a lot more like a rant to me than an actual threat. Rants are protected speech. Threats are not.
What these assholes in the homeland security department are doing is blurring angry speech with actual threats of violence. It's a slippery slope and I for one think whomever was in charge of ordering this person's arrest should be fired immediately and replaced with someone familiar with the Constitution.
Thanks for posting that additional info and context.
According to what we're now finding out about "Butch" and her pals, they're too busy licking Bush over at the Department of Homosexual Security.
The Constitution? I heard that was just a piece of paper.
Sort of like a FRN... or the GLD...
I for two think whomever was in charge of ordering this person's arrest should be fired immediately and replaced with someone familiar with the Constitution.
What did he say?
Surprisingly little. I read the writings the FBI 'accused' him of being insane about yesterday, and it was libertarian patriotic constitutional-reset and sound money type stuff.
I have to say, it was all pretty tame, I read more forthright and direct stuff in every thread at zh and some other places. It was no big deal.
His only mistake was to join the Marines, but then to discover after getting out that his brain kicked right back in.
So he just awoke to the whole scam, started to face the facts of his gross manipulation by his Govt. So said criminal Govt sent the jackboots to raid and section him as being insane, and needing of forced confinement and involuntary medication.
Welcome to the degenerate 1984-esqe police-state of a lawless capital govt where they actively mission homeland security to watch for thought-criminals and to chemically-lobotomise them ... but on;y after a bit of interrogation, torture and general humiliation, first.
In Soviet Union, politically disliked people usually were spending years in psyhiatric wards, not in jail.
His FB page says he has 422 'friends'. There is no telling who he may be associated with that brought him to the attention of authorities. Nor do we know what he has been doing while not busy posting on FB. I'm not in agreement with the govt standing in the way of free speech....just aware that there is likely more to this story than we know at this point.
Most likely one of his "friends" reported him. If you read some of the comments on his page, one dude asks if he's alright and if he needs help. So a well-intentioned betrayal is my guess.
Most likely one of his "friends" reported him'
This is my thought, as well. He likely has shown his colleagues some type of 'Loughner' behavior that they have reported.
"What did he say?"
http://dont-tread-on.me/?p=21770
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-57PzLmHp8&feature=player_embedded#!
The biggest crime here is the poor grammatical usage, as it reads like someone with a 6th or 7th grade education wrote it. It's most certain the monied interests become fearful when their game is being exposed though, dont they !!
Dr Benway
I think under Bush military commitments extended well beyond their active service. Being considered in service his speech is limited.
If that is the case he probably violated military law.
Hopefully someone who understands the nuance of modern service can explain far better than I have.
A lot has changed over the last decade.
I love those clubs you can never un-join ....../sarc
US statehood, mafia, and now the military
Unless something has changed the basic military contract is for six years. If you enlist for 4 years active duty you will be in the inactive reserves for two years after getting out.
I feel sure there is no "standard" across all services. It depends on the needs of each service (what Congress pays for, discharges, anticipated need), what your job is (ie. how much did they invest in training), any bonuses recieved, etc. When I was in, I saw from 2 active/6 reserve, 4 active/4 inactive (me), 6 active/2 inactive, Navy had some 3 active/?. It varies. Plus, my contract said that at the discretion of the president I could be involuntarily retained on active duty.