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Guest Post: The Future Of Jobs

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Charles Hugh Smith via ChrisMartenson.com

The Future of Jobs

That the American and global economies are being transformed by the forces of globalization, demographics, and over-indebtedness is self-evident. What is less self-evident is the impact this transformation will have on the future of work, earned income, and financial security.

The key question an increasingly vulnerable workforce is asking is: What skills will be in demand once this transition occurs?

In order to answer this question, it's necessary to understand the macro trends that will shape the nature of employment in this new era. In our previous look at The Future of Work, we focused on the US economy’s dependence on debt as a driver of growth and found that debt saturation was correlated with declining employment. But there are many other long-term dynamics influencing the economy, and no survey of the future job market would be complete without considering these other factors.

The Trends That Will Determine the Future of Jobs

Most cultural and economic trend changes begin on the margin and then spread slowly to the core, triggering waves of wider recognition along the way. Thus some of these long-wave trends may not yet be visible to the mainstream, and may remain on the margins for many years. Others are so mature that they may be primed for reversal.

The key here is to be aware of each of these, think on which are most likely to impact your current profession and how, and estimate when that impact is likely to be expressed so that you can position yourself wisely in advance:

  1. Automation enabled by the Web continues to eliminate or reduce the role of human labor in production and services. The low-hanging fruit may be gone, but labor-intensive industries such as health care, government, and education are ripe for software/Web automation and streamlining.
  2. The cost structure of the US economy—the system-wide cost of housing, food, energy, transport, education, health care, finance, debt, government, and defense/national security--is high and rising, even as productivity is lagging. This reflects the growth of "friction" in the economy—unproductive expenses that add neither value nor productivity. 

    This high-cost structure drives the cost of labor ever higher, even as employees’ share of compensation stagnates. For example, if health-care costs rise 10% a year, the employer must reap 10% more surplus from labor to pay the higher compensation costs, while the employees see no increase in their take-home pay.

    Rising systemic costs make employers wary of hiring more workers unless they create enough surplus value to keep ahead of the rising systemic costs and generate a return on investment. In low-productivity, high-cost basis economies like the U.S., the incentives shift from expansion to reducing labor costs by via automation and replacement of stable workforces with flexible freelance contract labor.

  3. The stress of operating a small business in a stagnant, over-indebted, high-cost basis economy is high, and owners find relief only by opting out and closing their doors. I call this exhaustion and loss of faith “when belief in the system fades.” Pundits may speak of our fraying “social contract,” but small-business owners increasingly feel betrayed by a system that constantly increases the burdens on enterprise at every level.

    Much of Main Street America is stuck in two unenviable roles: tax-donkeys saddled with ever-higher taxes and fees, and/or debt-serfs working just to service crushing debt. Many are planning for the day they escape the burdens of enterprise by shutting down their business.

  4. The Central State has been co-opted or captured by concentrations of private wealth and power to limit competition and divert the nation’s surplus to Elites within the key industries of finance, health care, education, government, and national security. The rising friction within these vast systems is distributed over the entire economy via cartels and taxes, raising costs in every sector and lowering the nation’s productivity.

    As a result of central State intervention and politically expedient controls, the prices charged for these services are “sticky,” meaning there is little to no market pressure to lower prices, as competition has been largely eliminated by collusion, cartels, and/or government control.

    At some point, these top-heavy, protected industries will experience a “stick/slip” event in which their fixed pricing and funding will collapse once the dwindling productive economy can no longer support this enormous dead weight of unproductive friction.

  5. Financialization of the economy has incentivized unproductive speculation and malinvestment at the expense of productive investment. Financialization has been driven by low interest rates and abundant credit for speculation while credit for capital investment is restricted.   In the boom years, money was effectively diverted into consumption such as luxury McMansions while the productive segments of the economy stagnated.

    The direct costs and lost opportunity costs of zero-interest rates and malinvestment have been spread over the entire economy, as income that once flowed to savers was diverted to “too big to fail” banks and speculators. Speculation creates vast profits for financial Elites and a modest number of service jobs catering to the Elite: clerks in luxury retail shops, personal trainers, dog-walkers, etc.

  6. The U.S. economy has bifurcated into a two-tiered regulatory structure. Politically powerful industries such as finance, education, health care, oil/natural gas, and defense benefit from either loophole-riddled regulation or regulation that effectively erects walls that limit smaller competitors from challenging the dominant players.

    Enterprises outside this politically protected circle are treated as adversaries by state and local government regulatory agencies.

  7. Selective globalization and political protection has created a two-tiered labor market in the US. Industries exposed to direct competition from low cost-basis economies with low labor costs must either close, automate or rely on minimum-wage immigrant labor. At the top end, global corporations are increasingly hiring talent in their offshore markets. Jobs, which remain in the US at the top tier of global companies are well-paid, but increasingly insecure.

    The domestic industries that cannot be outsourced (education, health care, government, national security) have gained political power as their share of the national income has increased, and their domestic position astride the economy has been enhanced by political protection. As a result, the pay scales in these sectors are much higher than those in globally exposed private sectors.

    These industries have thrived as Federal government spending has continued via borrowing 11% of the nation’s GDP every year. In this sense, these domestically protected industries are prospering at the expense of future taxpayers, who will be burdened with servicing this stupendous debt that has been taken on to fund these politically protected sectors.

  8. Financialization and the two-tiered labor market have led to a two-tiered wealth structure in which the top 10%'s share of the nation’s wealth has outstripped not just the stagnant income and wealth of the lower 90%, but of productivity, the ultimate driver of national wealth. This trend towards concentrated wealth also plays out in the top 10%, as the share of national income flowing to the top 1% has outstripped the wealth growth of the other 9%.

    These trends are all visible and well established. Looking farther out, there are emerging trends I call “the five Ds:” definancialization, delegitimization, deglobalization, decentralization and deceleration. Though these may not be visible to the mainstream just yet, they will slowly influence the job market and our definition of work.

  9. Definancialization. Resistance to the political dominance of banks and Wall Street is rising, and the financial industry that thrived for the past three decades may contract to a much smaller footprint in the economy.
  10. Delegitimization. The politically protected industries of government, education, health care, and national security are increasingly viewed as needlessly costly, top-heavy, inefficient, or failing. Supporting them with ever-increasing debt is widely viewed as irresponsible. Cultural faith in large-scale institutions as “solutions” is eroding, as is the confidence that a four-year college education is a key to financial security. 
  11. Deglobalization. Though it appears that globalization reigns supreme, we can anticipate protectionism will increasingly be viewed as a just and practical bulwark against high unemployment and withering domestic industries. We can also anticipate global supply chains being disrupted by political turmoil or dislocations in the global energy supply chain; domestic suppliers will be increasingly valued as more trustworthy and secure than distant suppliers.
  12. Decentralization. As faith in Federal and State policy erodes, local community institutions and enterprise will increasingly be viewed as more effective, responsive, adaptable, and less dysfunctional and parasitic than Federal and State institutions.
  13. Deceleration. As debt and financialization cease being drivers of the economy and begin contracting, the entire economy will decelerate as over-indebtedness, systemic friction, institutional resistance to contraction (“the ratchet effect”), and political disunity are “sticky” and contentious.

While these trends will cause harsh disruption to the Status Quo economy resulting in job loss and/or lost relevance for many of today's workers, there is good news here for those who remain flexible, open-minded, and adaptable. For those individuals, making the best use of the gift of having time to re-focus and re-skill professionally -- while the shock waves have yet to hit the Status Quo in earnest -- should be a top priority.

In Part II: The Skills Most Likely To Be In Demand, we explore the opportunities that this long-term transformation opens for those willing to adapt to the new realities of "work", including the business models that are likely to thrive, and what type of skills will offer the greatest job security.

Click here to access Part II of this report (free executive summary, enrollment required for full access)

 

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Mon, 11/28/2011 - 18:55 | 1923222 c'mon man
c'mon man's picture

Those days of working 40 years at the same place are over....

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:06 | 1923255 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

Unless you be workin for .gov.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:08 | 1923262 johnu78
johnu78's picture

That's for sure!

The only sector of the economy that's expanding right now is the Federal Government sector. Every other sector is contracting, with manufacting contracting the greatest amount!

The whole economy is imploding, soon the dollar will collapse and then everything will really go to sh*t!

 

-John
How to get started in amateur radio
http://johnu78.blogspot.com/2011/11/how-to-get-started-in-amateur-radio.html

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:12 | 1923277 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

Amateur radio will be a valuable skill in the future. Thumbs up.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:20 | 1923298 sqz
sqz's picture

Reminds me of this saying:

10 years ago we had steve jobs, bob hope and jonny cash.
now we have no jobs no hope and no cash.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:05 | 1923431 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

One word: Prison.

Reasons: Growing population, dwindling job market, growing wealth gap, faltering economy, growing discontentment, overreaching government on a mission to take away the remains of our so-called liberty...the list goes on and on and on.

So, open up your own detention facility or go work for one. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:06 | 1923625 VyseLegendaire
VyseLegendaire's picture

That's so utterly jaded, dear lord.  

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:55 | 1923760 NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

Jaded? Yes, but true.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:25 | 1923951 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Get a Ph.D. in gravedigging.

That'll be the most demanded profession in the nearby future.

 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:32 | 1923969 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

Digging or filling?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:40 | 1923986 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Can you run a back hoe? I mean come on..........  

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:41 | 1923989 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Only radical, new ways of thinkning will get us through and beyond this mess.

De-construction before re-construction.

ORI

/the-plan/

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:06 | 1923914 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

prisons, yes, and robo-cops for enForcement of all the new laws that will be broken.

oh, and to help dis-appear all those new enemy combatants across the street as newly defined by the National Defense Authorisation Act.

I'm guessing you either help dis-appear 'em, or be prepared to go yourself. . .

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:45 | 1923974 Shocker
Shocker's picture

Since we are talking about Jobs, a Very relevant subject is what is going on with all the job losses.

Can't just grow State/Gov jobs and think everything is good.

 

 

 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:57 | 1923408 WebWeasel
WebWeasel's picture

Yes, as will gunsmithing.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:21 | 1923486 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Don't forget reloaders.    They will be generating repeating customers.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:27 | 1923499 Jorgen
Jorgen's picture

...and funeral services.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:25 | 1923818 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

The funeral services are already planned for. FEMA coffins

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FnZLx8J4oM

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 03:25 | 1924435 The Proletariat
The Proletariat's picture

And, Taco Bell will be fine dining

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:34 | 1923522 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

I'm trying to figure that one out.    Ya push in a button, then you talk into a mike.   WTF?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:16 | 1923292 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You might want to reconsider that statement about the federal  gubbmint...

http://www.opm.gov/feddata/HistoricalTables/TotalGovernmentSince1962.asp

Oh yeah... can't let facts get  in the way of what your ideological bias tells you to be true...

you are a blowhard asshat.... go away and educate yourself.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:21 | 1923299 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

Now now Flagmaster. Be tolerant. ZH is all about tolerance.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:31 | 1923325 mynhair
mynhair's picture

FU, doggie butt.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:38 | 1923344 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

I only knew of Mynhair as a friend! There was NO affair!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:28 | 1923955 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

What happens in prison should stay in prison.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:59 | 1923414 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I am very tolerant except when it comes to misstatements and getting facts straight...

We got to where we are in this country by ignoring facts and letting ideology tell us what the answer should be....

By all means blast away at the gubbmint, but at least have something defensible to argue....

 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:34 | 1923519 CH1
CH1's picture

Being correct and being a prick are two different things.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:16 | 1925072 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

The problem is the pricks that are wrong...

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:42 | 1925234 The Proletariat
The Proletariat's picture

What is ideology?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:53 | 1923580 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Total numbers are not the only issue.  Ridiculous compensation, fringe benefits, and the strangling of the private sector are what have the country very angry.  Consent of the governed and all that jazz.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:25 | 1923953 the PTB
the PTB's picture

Look at it this way, Sergeant Flakmeister.  The proportion of productive output neutralized by the gov't, Fed and otherwise, has never ceased its expansion from the time of the ratification.  All gov't represents wealth consumption and nothing more.  It is a drain on the productive activities of society that does nothing to enhance prosperity.  At best it is a benign parasite, but its current incarnation is a metastatic cancer which is eating out all our substance.  Does that help put your little chart into perspective, sir?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:00 | 1923416 Esso
Esso's picture

That chart doesn't show government "contractors" which have been increasing exponentially since about 2000, give or take, to hide the true numbers of .gov employees.

Add that number in, and the true scope of .gov becomes eye-popping. About 60% of the people now rely on a .gov paycheck of some kind, whether it be fed, state, county or local.

That's the problem. Zero production.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:06 | 1923624 wisefool
wisefool's picture

+1 JP Morgan Chase actually runs the food stamps program in the USA. .gov subs it out to them.

Most of the .gov actual workings are run by sub contactors (read: $60k total compensation) who are pimped by "small disadvantaged bsinesses" (read: paris hilton is a wee little girl in charge of the small family business)  who are themselves subbed out by defense industry umbrella contactors, who are hired for the work by some current or former politicians' close relative/donor who is the actual .gov employee.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:10 | 1923923 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

. . . each skimming the fat off the payments as they trickle down.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:21 | 1923942 wisefool
wisefool's picture

which is why the 'Bamer says "Since congress can not get anything done I am going to make sure small busineses get payroll tax deductions for each employee"

So as you said, the "cut" that 3 layers of flesh peddlers get will not be on the table for taxation. Meanwhile, on the other (John McCain - R) side of bizzaro town, 

 

The recycled materials used in those parts are often sold overseas through a complex web of suppliers, contractors and subcontractors. And the use of counterfeit parts, Senate staffers said, has at times resulted in millions of dollars in waste, with U.S. taxpayers footing the bill when contractors discover the need for replacements.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/chinese-counterfeit-parts-found-in-us-weapons/2011/11/07/gIQAQGh7wM_story.html

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:15 | 1923790 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

And it's not because they're all lazy no-good parasites... for fucks sake... we are undergoing a paradigm shift, but we have utterly failed to address what to do with people during the shift, from a society bound to an economy, to a society that will be bound to surplus production and lack of economy.  We have unemployed people because there is not enough work, in the hyper efficient world we've created.  Instead of planning for this ripe moment, you fuckers want to chastise the poor slobs who were the first to encounter the shifting landscape.

Realize that you will be joining them. It's only a matter of time.  I'm ready.  Are you?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 12:27 | 1924924 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Esso... no real argument... seems like the MIC is in control and the feckless Congress won't initiate a draft to maintain the overseas adventures....

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:11 | 1923426 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Erm... that table shows a clear expansion of Federal government employment since 2007:

(from page, figures in thousands)

Year     Executive branch civilians      Uniformed military personnel     Legislative and judicial branch personnel      Total Federal personnel
2007    2,636                                 1,427                                     63                                                           4,127
2008    2,692                                 1,450                                     64                                                           4,206
2009    2,774                                 1,591                                     66                                                           4,430
2010    2,776                                 1,602                                     64                                                           4,443

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:44 | 1923549 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

So you believe everything the gov't tells you? That's your first mistake....

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:29 | 1923822 Doomer
Doomer's picture

Well, as your OMB table shows, it has been expanding since 2007, so I think you proved his point.

 

Hmmm, who has the idealogical bias?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:35 | 1923842 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Look at the trend from the 1960's and normalize by population growth... year to year stuff is in the noise. The dominant trend is that it is a decreasing fraction....

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:06 | 1924026 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Come on, Flak, what's a little sophistry amongst friends?

The posters fault was not in getting the facts wrong, but that in this Internet Age it is inexcusable for someone not to link to some blogger who pulls convenient and corroborating 'data' and 'proof' out of his arse.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:41 | 1924752 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Nice chart.  Doesn't include Private Contractors that work on projects for the Feds.  One government employee I know currently supervises the activities of 25 Private Contractors.  At least in the case of DOD, the Clinton/Gore "Re-invent (downsize) Government" initiative enabled the hiring of millions of Private Contractors, which of course, are not "on the books" and not cited in official numbers reported by OPM.  Not to worry though.  The Defense Contractors are happy.  They get a contract, then hire a bunch of "temps", called self-employed private contractors, to work the project and don't have to pay them retirement or other benefits like they did in the good old days. It is a Win-Win deal for Big Government and Big Defense Contractors. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:49 | 1923564 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

so i have to ask my government daddy for permission to talk on my radio. gtfo............

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:35 | 1923710 e2thex
e2thex's picture

All my friends in the 'hood are doin' okay. We got jobs, good jobs and good pensions and health care, too.  If you wanna join us for a party tonite, come to the large White house on the mother lawn with the long driveway. You can't miss it .

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:15 | 1923795 Mattress Money
Mattress Money's picture

What part of government! Im in the military and they are downsizing. I am not seeing workcenter fight over bodies like zombies  in the movie  I am Legend

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:24 | 1923494 Kayman
Kayman's picture

40 years working for the government ?  Are you crazy.

We're heading for government employess retiring at 40 (years of age)

 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:00 | 1923606 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

yes and they make excellent yardmen too......

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:18 | 1923665 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

Carlye Groupie

"Unless you be workin for .gov."

 

The only Gov jobs that will be given are BLOW jobs

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:40 | 1923722 Freddie
Freddie's picture

There will be no non-govt  jobs with the muslim or puppet replacements like Newt, Mitt, etc. 

Ron Paul is it followed by Santorum and Bachmann. 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 08:37 | 1924727 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Health Care.  Politically protected.  A massively subsidized "vampire squid" industry that is sucking the lifeblood out of the economy.  Not mentioned. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:12 | 1923276 max2205
max2205's picture

Thse days were over 20 years ago....

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:55 | 1923395 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Those days of working 40 years at the same place are over....

As are the days of buying a home. A mobile workforce must be mobile so renting a house will be the new normal. The only people buying homes will be renting them out.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:18 | 1923663 treasurefish
treasurefish's picture

I know you guys are focused on the charts and your jobs, but have you read this???

 

Federal Reserve Warns Banks Too Big To Fail

 http://cryptome.org/0005/frs120111.pdf

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:33 | 1923838 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

This is nothing to do with any reality based evaluation and strategy.  This is not about too big to fail, this is a banking system being dismantled using false arguments and erroneous logic, to the benefit of the oligarchs / financiers. The new regulatory oversight by the FED will essentially allow them to catastrophically destroy the banks, prevent their survival, force an eventual "rescue" takeover by the FED, so that in the end, the FED and the FED buddy banks - the 5 biggies, will rule the financial world within the US.  Now's a good time to protest these changes.  The policy is set to start on 12.01.2011.  That's 2 days.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:22 | 1923676 NoClueSneaker
NoClueSneaker's picture

... Goldwatch blues x2 ?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:50 | 1923749 Pinch
Pinch's picture

NO mention of the biggest things that will influence jobs going forward: energy depletion (peak oil) and global warming.

 

Worthless article.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 18:55 | 1923223 4realmoney
4realmoney's picture

Future of jobs in 4 words: "there won't be any". Here comes the Next Depression

http://djia.tv/al-jazeera/oecd-cuts-global-growth-forecast/

 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:16 | 1923293 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

There's at least forty years of chin and butt wiping as the Boomers go senile and die off.

Opportunities await!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:33 | 1923330 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Bwaney Fwank is on it!

On our Franklins, of course.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:57 | 1923410 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

I don't care how senile I become, I will never allow Barney Frank to lick my ass.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:18 | 1923661 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Today is the only time I ever smiled when I heard he was packin it in ;-)

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:26 | 1923687 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

packing it in?  perhaps it would a good idea to not talk about mr frank like that..........

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:40 | 1923723 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its the "little things" in life...lol.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:01 | 1923769 c'mon man
c'mon man's picture

Hope nobody in his family has been making calls to ESPN...

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:18 | 1924046 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

After the catatonic state we found you in after last time, I'm not surprised.

Don't think we haven't noticed how you bristle at Elmer Fudd cartoons.

 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:46 | 1923729 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I laugh at seniors and baby boomers who voted for the muslim which has f**ked the rest of their lives.  Nice job. 

Not that Soros Manchurian plan B McCain was much better. Still Jimmy Carter or Satan would have been better.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:09 | 1923783 NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

Freddie, we get the point that you don't like "The Muslim". You mention it in everyone of your posts. If you believe that one man, Muslim or not, is responsible for this entire mess then I don't think you know what is going on.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 07:49 | 1924634 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Why are you proclaiming your ignorance?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:09 | 1923781 ali-ali-al-qomfri
ali-ali-al-qomfri's picture

long Depends.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:35 | 1923525 CH1
CH1's picture

Future of jobs in 4 words: "there won't be any".

Two words: Underground economy.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:34 | 1923709 SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

Well, in theory, prices reset in a depression which is nice if you have no debt. The only problem is prices aren't allowed to reset due to excessive money creation.  The end result is an inflationary depression which is a distorted clusterfuck.  

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 18:55 | 1923225 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

$7.00 dollars an hour and live in a dorm over the place of business thats the future.....jobs are coming back!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:00 | 1923239 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Hehe

Some of my most fun times were in a dorm.

Thats not so bad.

Make it co ed and the company can avoid the expense of anti suicide netting.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:04 | 1923251 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

Bankster Hitman

http://hitman.us/

 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:26 | 1923310 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

50,000 dollars for a hit.
Expensive, but looks like they do quality work.

Mozillo, Paulson, Blankfein, Prince, Shapiro, Corzine.

I cant afford it. Can we take up a collection?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:00 | 1923415 WebWeasel
WebWeasel's picture

They take plastic.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:51 | 1923571 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

did you ever do any streaking?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:49 | 1923744 Freddie
Freddie's picture

It won't be that kind of dorm but a Chi-Com style serf dorms for slave workers.  30 people in a small room up at 5 am and work til 10 pm.  

I doubt most of us will be that lucky to get those $7 a hour slave gigs.

 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:13 | 1923280 johnu78
johnu78's picture

What kind of drug are you on???

 

-John
http://www.johnu78.com

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:27 | 1923888 connda
connda's picture

Jobs aren't coming back until they go elsewhere first.  Minimum wage needs to go down until the average Joe can't afford to eat.

Here in Thailand, the government increased the minimum wage to 300 baht (less than $10 US).....and that's not an hour -- that's per day!

However....

Multinational corporations (greedy bastards that they are) are pulling up stakes and moving to Cambodia where they can paid the equivant of 80 baht per day per worker (or about $2.60).

So at $7.00+ and hour, jobs ain't coming back to the US anytime soon. 

Anyway - you can't expect a poor CEO to make less than a few hundred thousand times what the average "trained monkies" make, now can you???

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:18 | 1924138 i-dog
i-dog's picture

This is the reality that Americans just won't face ... that they have priced themselves out of the mass labour market! America once provided natural resources, produce and manufactures to the world through the sweat of imported labour from the dying industrial economies of pre- and post-war Europe. Now, fifty years of continuous war, social welfare and debt-based growth have given them a false sense of importance combined with a multi-generational sense of entitlement.

Those still clinging onto some desperate hope that the Asians (or Africans, or Martians) will continue to toil in poverty to supply them with imported SUVs, flat-screen TVs and unlimited calories are simply deluded!

Thai workers can live quite well on $10/day -- and Cambodian workers on $2.60/day -- because they don't all swan around in gas guzzling SUVs looking for the next high-calorie feed to take home and lay out on the granite benchtops for their bloated progeny to graze on.

The survivalists on here who are thoughtful enough to have provided themselves in advance with a roof over their heads can probably also live on $2.60/day. The rest just remind me of baby chicks sitting in the nest and squawking loudly for their mommy (the gov, or some dumb employer struggling to feed his own family while employing labour at $20-40/hr) to drop food in their mouths!

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:35 | 1924239 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Agreed.  Solyndra is nothing. The USA cant even manufacture the technology we invented 50 years ago. And places like china/india/cambodia simply cant because it is too outdated.  I posted a link above about counterfet parts ending up in our military equipment. The way that scam works is, much of our military electronics runs on old chips. The space shutte (intentially obfuscated) used mil-spec 286 processors that ran at 7 volts instead of 5 volts. The only difference between the chips was a "M" on the end of the etched part number. Instead of getting somebody to buy the license from intel to manufacture the chip domestically, we'll get somebody who buys a bunch of consumer PCs, ship them to china where they are polished up and that magic "M" is historically, acurately, "restored" on the consumer chip. It ends up back in america to a vendor who "wink wink" assumes it is the real deal. Rings out, makes it through the 24 hour burn in and off it goes into a set. 2 weeks later that 5V chip plugged into the 7 volt back plane doesn't hold up too well. I just pray it aint on gear in a hostile environment.

Back to your point. We spend more on our military than the next ten nations combined, but we can not even competitively manufacture 40 year old technology that we invented for the gear that puts oil in the tanks of those SUVs that drive to the grocery to buy packaged food using food stamps for 15% of the populous. I'd ask G.E. to do it, but they are too busy dodging taxes and financing real estate. I'd ask .gov to be more careful about this stuff, but they are too busy catching guys like tim giether on his taxes.

Chris Mattews would say something about american exceptionalism to refute both of us.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 18:58 | 1923232 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

I have been studying blacksmithing and will sideline as a ferrier once the collapse plays out.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:08 | 1923265 dickizinya
dickizinya's picture

I'm gonna be a Viking!.  Or a Firewatcher.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:10 | 1923269 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I just found an old guy near me who built a forge in his garage, and teaches from time to time. I see smithing as a growth industry in the post-industrial world, where people will actually have to repair things, instead of tossing them.

Though I'm assuming a welder will meet most of my redneck metal-engineering needs. Well, at least where bailing wire and duct tape won't work.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:44 | 1923363 IAmNotMark
IAmNotMark's picture

I'm working on my alcohol production skills.  That has always been a valuable skill, even if it has often been illegal.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:56 | 1923405 Rainman
Rainman's picture

And it's too bad Big Pharma's got that opioid pill thing going so strong....thousand acre hemp farms would be bitchin'  

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:03 | 1923614 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

how much does a pound go for these days?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:28 | 1923695 seek
seek's picture

From the Cali growers, $1500-$4500 wholesale. (An ex GF was getting into the medical side of things so I got exposed to all sorts of interesting tidbits.)

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:37 | 1923717 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

wow, talk about inflation. tyler needs to put up a chart showing pot prices from say 1970 to now..........ha ha ha .....

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:10 | 1924162 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Funny you should mention.

Top-shelf NorCal bud:

2008: $400/oz

2011: $150/oz

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 08:08 | 1924660 steelrules
steelrules's picture

As I kid 15-16 I remember 4 finger ounces of Colombian $80.00 1975-76.

Boy that brought back some memories LOL.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 11:26 | 1925479 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

...or caused the loss of a few memories.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:52 | 1923755 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Ask the old guy if he can fix $2 Chinese waffle irons that Oba ( that muslim guy) voters fight over.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:02 | 1923422 SystemsGuy
SystemsGuy's picture

I've thought seriously about blacksmithing as well. Indeed, if you look at RenFaires and similar anachronistic events, there are a fairly broad number of useful professions - smiths of most sorts, skilled farmers, vitners, tailors, engineers, gunsmiths, carpenters, etc., that have comparatively high value in a collapse. I find an interesting intellectual exercise is to look at SteamPunk ideas, and ask what skills would be of value in that sort of society, then follow the supporting infrastructure.

For instance, a horologist - a clock maker - becomes an integral part of society when you can no longer fab the chips necessary to make cheap time-pieces. Horologists require finely milled gears, which in turn requires the facilities to manufacture these, along with the material understanding to make them string, so this implies die cutters and machinists and welders and engineers.

Significantly, all of the jobs that emerge out of this are trade jobs, requiring several years of training on top of innate aptitude.

BTW, and for what it's worth, most smiths that I do know are turning away work because they have too much. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:53 | 1923879 samsara
samsara's picture

In a few years,  Small Light machine shop.   That can fix or cobble together any machine will have work.   Not till then though.

Not blacksmiths.   If a collapse happens(which is why you are looking to these vocations to begin with)  You are talking about milions dying off quickly because of health care, money, etc.  Old, Young, those needing medicine,  etc.   Not trying to be macabre,  One cold winter in the northeast and have a problem with gas distributions.....  Ya, easy.

So anyways,  For instance, If I died,  There would be about 5 pairs of shoes, a bunch of shirts, pants, and tools, and everything else I have would hit the flea markets sooner or later....

A LOT OF STUFF IS OUT THERE.  and it won't go away quickly.    Think of all those "You Store It"  places you drive by.  All filled with STUFF.  

You will be able to pick up ANYTHING at a flea market.    How many of the 'Extra' buildings in America (closed factories, business complexes, whole housing tracks)    are there?

There will be DeConstruction of EVERYTHING that isn't nailed down.  And it will be for sale by someone somewhere.  Copper theives are just the TIP of what is coming.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:43 | 1924095 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Bloomberg TV had a guy on today saying copper will be unaffordable next year. That in the 1970s the chinese stated rare earths will be more valuable than oil. The one truly outstanding foodstuff inflation is in potatoes. up over 100% in five years. Guess what US real estate the chinese are buying? It aint rockefeller center and SNL... think napolean dynamite and Idaho russets. He kept saying "I dont want to sound like this is doomsday ... but this is like not doing the manhattan project when we knew germany was working on the bomb"

MSM talking heads aside, I agree on the opportunities. The tycoons of this depression are going to be the guys who can safely distill 2 oz. of silver out of a storage unit full of electronics and cheap jewelry. 3 oz of copper out of windings in transformers and motors. Sell the crushed plastic as aggregate. bail the cheap metals and deliver to a bigger foundry (economy of scale)

Commercial scrappers around me have basically lifted restrictions on everything except pressurized vessels and fuel containers. They want it all. The EPA used to shake people down for improper disposal of electronics and appliances. Had to pay a disposal fee at a center or the dump. Now major retailers are offering free delivery/instalation on the assumption they'll get your old stuff. Waste management companies and municipalities are offer free and frequent "large item pick up" lots and lots of good stuff in the older gear.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:28 | 1923956 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

drop spindles.

angora rabbit on your lap (warmth) & nimble fingers = yarns!  

those warm woolly jumpers (sweaters) will be valuable once the plastic clothes start disappearing. . .

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:07 | 1923439 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

I have a small machine shop behind my home. I turn away work as I have more than I really want. There is no shortage of work for people skilled in the arts of industry such as Mechanic, Electrician, Plumber, Welder, and Machinist. Our youth are told we are simpletons or Red Necks and will never earn enough for a comfortable living. Then they complain when charged thousands of dollars for a few hours of work performed by these same people.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:01 | 1923910 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Smart move on your part. One of the results of living in a throwaway society is an increasing scarcity of people that know how to repair anything. The ability to fabricate replacement parts goes hand-in-hand with this, since the frailty of just-in-time supply chains will soon become apparent.

Repair and salvage will be the new growth industries, and you can expect resource shortages to lead to opportunities in landfill mining.

Lastly, those considering college would be better off spending their time and money on a training program which would lead to certification in their state in the field of laser tattoo removal. I can only see demand increasing for this service.

 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:02 | 1923911 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Some of those professions are lucrative because of government regulations.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:11 | 1923446 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Gunsmithing and private home schooling is what I'm into these days.

Guns are easy.....just learn.  School is a business, yet my wife is a teacher, if I can just convince her to get the PHD, it would give us cred now.  Not sure we'll need it in the future.  I can fund the startup anyways.

 

 

And to think, I'm a computer scientist.  Still teach, consult and write.  And I am building AR's in the garage.

 

Bizzarro land, best get used to it.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:04 | 1923616 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

you can get good phd creds on ebay.........

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:30 | 1924222 JohnG
JohnG's picture

From China.

Mine are real, earned the hard way.  Coursework, teaching, writing, dissertation, defense, graduation.

Emory.

Tough to get through.  Many books.  Your softwware works or not.  Pass/Fail.

ebay just won't fly, it's a joke.  These days, it's a phone call and a database query for REAL credentials.

I catch many of these, and reject applicants.  Then insert them as forgeries.

You can find me on the ACM SIGGRAPH list.

 

Dr. John Gordon, PHD. 

 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:53 | 1924389 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Back to the old one room school house and the community hires the teacher.  They used to take turns housing and feeding her too.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:29 | 1923508 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Since I'm gettin' kind of old anyway and the way things are going, I figure there will be some nice openings in the near future for human radiation detectors.

So I got that going for me.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:52 | 1923576 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

you are a good man.  

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:02 | 1923610 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Very smart move imo. I have 25 colt's, 7 class 9 roping horses, cattle, goats, sawmill, timber purchased, board edger's, manufacture flooring machine, molder, hay stored, ferrier tool's, 105 acre's of hay pasture that can be farmed etc. If and when it does crash, atleast we can eat.  

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:05 | 1923619 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

have they ever come out and wanted you to tag and register those animals yet?   they will........

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:32 | 1923704 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Registering horses has been going on forever, have to keep up good fences though. It is amazing how easy it is for a horse or cow to disappear in the country. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:41 | 1923859 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i used  to listen to old derry brownfield out of missouri on the radio talking about this kind of stuff.   he died last year unfortunately.  he was always on top of the government snooping etc , on private family farms , etc...

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:04 | 1923772 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

there are sawmills and there are sawmills

most don't come with molding and flooring capacity and if they do, there are usually drying kilns nearby

so, what you have sounds pretty awesome;  most 105-160 acre (++ ?) ranches don't have sawmills involved

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:38 | 1923847 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Hey Slewie, The mill I have is portable. I have it set up stationary out the one ranch we have our horses on. I have a log yard there, we can saw people's log's there into there lumber or the mill can be moved to a site to do the same. The flooring machine and molder's are completly seperate unit's, you are correct. I am building a solar dry kiln now, pretty simple set up really. Found the design on woodweb.com. Takes about a month to dry 4-5k board ft. of completly green red oak to usable 6-8% mosture content material. Cheap also to put together.  

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 18:59 | 1923234 SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

sweat shops instead of investment shops. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:00 | 1923237 Landrew
Landrew's picture

Sorry to high-jack, Barney Frank done deal.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:21 | 1923488 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Oh no...lobbyist.  Blowjobs gan get a lot done.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:00 | 1923238 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

You can either work an automatable job, or be the person who automates jobs.

- Me.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:35 | 1923337 rbg81
rbg81's picture

Kurt Vonnegut predicted all this in a book called "Player Piano", written in 1952.  Society was dividied up into two classes:  the top 1% (managers and engineers) and everybody else (military and Wreeks and Recks, who basically maintained roads and bridges).  There were a few professions that survived (like Barber) which were too complex or costly to automate.  Highly recommended.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:26 | 1923496 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Damn I love my Kindle. :)

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:51 | 1923574 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Demonoid.me...torrents are your friend. Just remember to burn as you learn. EMP is a bitch.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:35 | 1924237 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Static bags beat EMP, which is a fantasy imho.  It's possible to be certain, I just don't see it happening because it is not a definitive solution.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:44 | 1923730 css1971
css1971's picture

Management can be automated too. That's approximately what the market does. Bring market (pull) structures into your organisation as opposed to the centrally planned (push) structures of most corporations and the number of managers required drops substantially.

It's the parable of the crisp pickers.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:39 | 1923850 samsara
samsara's picture

But,  Let them find out you flunked Gym in 12 grade, unravels your whole career. (no Gym, no graduate, no graduate, no college eligibility, no Dr.  Etc)   

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:45 | 1923555 bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

Yep, me too.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:05 | 1923240 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

The future has bifurcated into a wasteland for the 99%, and a gated utopia for the 1%.  Already all spheres are converging to private, thus commercial, and controlled by entrenched power-corporations.  There is no labor. There is no public.  They control the public sense.  And soon they will control the public mood, and appetite, thus the unconscious.  They will shape human consciousness.

 

The day that organ harvesting of the 99% is legalized to make the 1% immortal is the day I buy my Quietus kit.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:19 | 1923479 wisefool
wisefool's picture

+1. @ Tyler, see above, please sneak in a "children of men" avatar once in a while.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:28 | 1923504 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Hienlin's Time Enough For Love is a must read for you, sir.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:55 | 1924396 N57Mike
N57Mike's picture

Time Enough for Love..... one of the best books ever. Thank you.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:50 | 1923880 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

Read "The Possibility of an Island" by Michael Houelbecq. Fits your theory like a glove.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:05 | 1923241 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Work is slavery. But you are Tyler Durden, you already know that.

The only good work out there is work like Project Mayhem.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:02 | 1923243 eric89074
eric89074's picture

People will not be able to find good full time employment. UE will go down but a large amount of the population will be working multiple part time jobs with no benefits.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:39 | 1923347 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

That's Jamaica!

Everyone working four part time jobs.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:00 | 1923607 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

"Working" in Jamaica must be used with a lot of artistic license.  Braiding hair and selling ganja, I would believe.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:02 | 1923246 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

 

This is the worst kept secret in the World..

Have you ever wondered how the JEWs went from zero to hero in the span of one generation?

How the Robber Barron's Lost ALL! their offshore monies (and onshore in some cases) to the cheap esquires and accounts that handled their fortunes?

Here is how it's done!

 

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/28/9067033-a-400-million-...

By Bill Dedman
Investigative Reporter, msnbc.com

NEW YORK — There is a new surprise in the mysterious story of reclusive heiress Huguette Clark. It turns out that she signed two wills, the first one benefitting her family, the second one cutting out her family altogether. And she signed them one after another, within six weeks.

 

The Jewish Account and the Jewish Esquire get ALL the money (mysteriously) and the Family gets None!

 

That is how Washington DC was bought and paid for!

This is how the immigration laws of America were changed!

This is what funded the demise of the American Dream!

 

how about a refresher on the Teachings of the Talmud? that way you can understand what the Jews Worship! in their own words!

Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Jews Have Superior Legal Status

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

Jews May Steal from Non-Jews

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."

Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Jews May Lie to Non-Jews

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

Non-Jewish Children are Sub-Human

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

 

and to anyone who would like to vilify me over what the Holiest of Jewish Teaching are I would say.. Spin away Spinsters! Spin Away!!

 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:19 | 1923259 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Abodah Zarah 22c-22d . Girls prefer sex with cows, when JWnFL is the only other choice.

 

Go vote, again, for Blabbermouth-Schultz, troll!

 

Asshat gives FL a bad name.  Was probably in a Walmart Black Friday vid.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:31 | 1923327 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Why so sensitive, jewboy?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:40 | 1923341 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Am an atheist, but live in FL, and this butthead is a disgrace!

Plus, he lives INLAND!  That's like Appalachia to the rest of you.

 

(TD anyway, cuz thumbs of any sort are confirmation)

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:43 | 1923362 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Aahh. A cracker.
J.E.W. in FL......how do you defend yourself against such charges?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:52 | 1923754 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

He appears to still be coming down from the mental masturbation of that last post...

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:14 | 1923929 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

Like I said above.. I post sourced and sited info.. Love it of Lump it.

and my time was spent reading the offering below.

 

"SMALL PEOPLE" AGAINST BIG GOVERNMENT

 

s.1867, The 'National Defense Authorization Act' creates a police state:

The bill was drafted in secret by Senators Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.), before being passed in a closed-door committee meeting without any kind of hearing. http:// mediamonarchy.blogspot.com/ 2011/11/ senate-bill-to-turn-us-into-bat tlefield.html

Yes, Americans Will Be Targeted As Terrorists Under the NDAA -... Dark Politricks
http://bit.ly/rBhHex

The U.S. Senate is considering the unthinkable: changing detention laws to imprison people — including Americans living in the United States itself — indefinitely and without charge. The ACLU petition: http://bit.ly/uNaKsM

The Senate will be voting on a bill that will direct American military resources not at an enemy shooting at our military in a war zone, but at American citizens and other civilians far from any battlefield — even people in the United States itself. http://bit.ly/t7egus

This bill is over 600 pages long, and even according to its sponsors, covers a wide variety of issues. Something as important and unique as criminal justice should not be part of a military authorization bill, but should be the subject of its own bill: http://bit.ly/twwNKA

Is Guantanamo forever?
The Senate contemplates a bipartisan bill to make permanent the failed system of indefinite detention: http://bit.ly/vIseRQ

Secret Bill To Be Voted On Today Would Allow The Military To Sweep Up US Citizens At Home Or Abroad: http://read.bi/vnp2sc

The language contained in sections 1031, 1032, and 1033 operates to create a dangerous framework certain to curtail civil liberties and hamstring effective policing. As written, these sections establish indefinite detention, military custody, and a “national security waiver” prohibiting certain transfers from Guantánamo Bay: http://bit.ly/vk7fcW

There's a problem: Within this year's NDAA bill are problematic new provisions that could allow the U.S. military to capture and indefinitely detain American citizens, even here on U.S. soil. Senator Udall's petition: http://bit.ly/uTLYhz   You increase Freedom by? Moving out of America??

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:03 | 1924976 ping
ping's picture

You, sir, are a rabid anti-semite. But do you have any bad points?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:31 | 1923512 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Easy cat, I live in these here hills.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:52 | 1923579 nmewn
nmewn's picture

As do I.

Cat scratch fever ;-)

"In general, the prognosis is favorable. In temperate climates, most cases occur in fall and winter. The disease usually resolves spontaneously, with or without treatment, in one month."

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:21 | 1923943 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

I Live in Palm Beach..

Now if you dont understand Google Maps.. or you cant find the 33480 zip code.. that really isnt my fault.

Now as for Hill People.. My Fathers Family is ALL! from West Virginia.. so you can fuck off.

I have made the offer to meet you in person.. but you lack the back bone for that.. internet mouth piece.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:38 | 1924248 JohnG
JohnG's picture

 

 

Calm down man.  Have a beer, you'll feel better.  Don't stroke out over some comment.  Really, just relax a bit.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:07 | 1925010 ping
ping's picture

Screw that! Drive over to Florida and kick him! 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 19:57 | 1923406 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Hey easy on the reds now.

Mynhair knows I like jewboys.
My best friend happens to be one

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!