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Guest Post: Gasoline Is Expensive - Deal With It

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Via Daniel Graeber of OilPrice.com,

The White House announced it was getting into the commodities game in an effort to protect consumers from some of the geopolitical factors spilling over into the retail gasoline market. OPEC and the IEA both said in their monthly reports that market perceptions were behind higher energy prices, not physical shortages. With most U.S. consumers still economically gun shy, gasoline consumption is down amid high retail prices. But on the business side, protection against potential oil shocks in the long-term could help push a reinvigorated U.S. economy over the recessionary hump. Apart from the murky waters of economic nuance, however, President Obama said that, no matter what, American commuters need gasoline. Speculation aside, maybe that's the problem.
 
High gasoline prices make for angry constituents. That means politicians, especially politicians fighting to keep their paychecks, start pointing their legislative guns at Wall Street almost as soon as the gavel strikes. Market indices don't particularly care one way or the other if consumers and lawmakers are frustrated, but they are concerned nonetheless. U.S. lawmakers in March complained to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission that nobody was watching energy markets closely because perceptions are trumping real-world scenarios. Demand is down and supplies are up, which typically means prices drop. But not so fast, the critics say. Someone must be cheating.
 
Energy wonks note, correctly, that hedging your energy bets is a good way to protect against future shocks. Imagine how much plane tickets would cost if the airline industry practiced a just-in-time policy for its fuel needs. The same would likely hold for refineries and oil producers. But that doesn't mean much for the average consumer when gasoline prices can increase as much as 10 percent overnight because Iran's Press TV ran a false report about a Saudi pipeline explosion, or U.S. refineries closed for maintenance or the weather suddenly turned colder or any of the other reasons cited for volatility in consumer gasoline prices.
 
It's getting close to the so-called driving season in the United States when Americans take to the road for their summer vacations. But gasoline demand is down more than 3 percent compared with the same period last year. That may be because of improved fuel economy, a lack of general consumer spending or because of sluggish employment numbers means nobody has a job or vacation to drive to anyhow. Yet, the government said gasoline prices are starting to come down. But no matter. U.S. lawmakers, including the president, made a big show of their rhetoric on gasoline, jobs, energy security, American families and the like.

 


 
"Obviously rising gas prices means a rough ride for a lot of families," said Obama. "Whether you’re trying to get to school, trying to get to work, do some grocery shopping, you have to be able to fill up that gas tank."
 
And therein lies the problem. Most commuters go to school, get to work and run errands using a vehicle that runs on gasoline. Gasoline is a necessity and that's in part why the debate ensues. Without massive subsidies, gasoline is going to get more expensive no matter what the politicians say. And until commuters move beyond the carbon mindset, that ride to work will continue to be a rough one.

 


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Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:38 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

http://www.usfunds.com/media/images/frank-talk-images/2011-frank-talk/jul-dec-2011/DevWorldOilDemand-072111.gif

Anyway, I see that "the invisible hand of the market" has started buying DJIA an hour early.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:58 | Link to Comment iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

Grasping the consequences of Peak oil and its subsequent paradigm lifestyle shift for everyone is the greatest show on earth..

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 18:13 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Welcome to the shitshow....

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 12:55 | Link to Comment Nagelstudio
Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:17 | Link to Comment carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Is this a commercial for telecommuting?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:32 | Link to Comment itstippy
itstippy's picture

"The invisible hand ON the market"

There, fixed it for ya.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:38 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Clever

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:38 | Link to Comment Jason T
Jason T's picture

Dealth to the suburbs where you need to have a car for just about everything. 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:44 | Link to Comment lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

peak oil. 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:30 | Link to Comment johnnymustardseed
johnnymustardseed's picture

The United States exports 117 MILLION gallons of gas a day to foreign countries!!! Fucking oil companies could give a rats ass about what it does to people or the economy. It is all about profit!!! What difference would the Keystone Pipeline make?? They would ship it all away.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/story/2011-12-31/united-states-export/52298812/1

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:48 | Link to Comment FlyoverCountryS...
FlyoverCountrySchmuck's picture

70% of our EXPORTED gas goes to MEXICO, stoopid...

High-sulfur fuels WE CANNOT USE HERE due to EPA regulations. Another 20% goes to PANAMA, guatemala and the Carib Islands, in that order.

Would you rather they get it from Nationalized Venezuelean refineries?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:01 | Link to Comment imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

U bin smokin too many yeller seeds there Johnnyboy.  Exports of refined products be a good thang.  Not like them imports of crude.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:09 | Link to Comment SelfGov
SelfGov's picture

Could we export as many refined products if we didn't import so much crude?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:58 | Link to Comment imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

We import more crude than we need for ourselves, add to its value by using our surplus of natural gas and spare refining capacity, and export it back to other places at a profit.  Now for those who do not understand why this is good, or why this process has nothing to do with price of gas at the pump, I am very worried.  Graduates from one of our enlightened public schools perhaps? 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:53 | Link to Comment TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

"Carbon mindset"???  What kind of idiot wrote this?  I suppose his products are produced and then transported to him using power from Unicorn Farts, which have no carbon.  Christ.

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:00 | Link to Comment 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

Unicorn farts are a greenhouse gas that cause global warming. You just cant win.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 18:11 | Link to Comment Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

Do not! And you're racist!!  (typical lib response)

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:42 | Link to Comment machinegear
machinegear's picture

As if it is a *choice* to drive to work or anywhere in this damn country. Where does this hippie live? New York? San Fran? Try riding a bike 9 miles in 6 inches of snow. Oh. Yeah. And don't forget about hitch'n up the Kid Trailer so you can drop off lil'Joey at day care on your way to work!

http://bicycletrailers.com/

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:02 | Link to Comment imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

Mr. Guest Post lost his cred on that one.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 01:10 | Link to Comment rajonmestra
rajonmestra's picture

"Obviously rising gas prices means a rough ride for a lot of families," said Obama. "Whether you’re trying to get to school, trying to get to work, do some grocery shopping, you have to be able to fill up that gas tank."

Obama's right. Scarcity in gas really makes the economy go down. According to the law of supply and demand, prices will go up when demand goes up and supply goes down. And this is what's heppening on our country right now. All we could do is at least buy high quality gas tanks to make sure that leaks are avoided and no fuel is wasted.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:39 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Next up..price controls followed shortly there after by shortages. It's a good thing we have those darned Iranians to blame it all, especially after the spike when Ben turns the printers back on.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:40 | Link to Comment Seorse Gorog fr...
Seorse Gorog from that Quantum Entanglement Fund. alright_.-'s picture
Iceland ex-PM Haarde 'partly' guilty over 2008 crisis

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17817174

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:41 | Link to Comment Ted Baker
Ted Baker's picture

GET THEM ALL A BIKE AND RIDE TO WORK -- TIME TO CHANGE AT LEAST THAT WAS WHAT OBAMA CAMPAING WAS ALL ABOUT

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:01 | Link to Comment 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

I live 38 miles from work and ride my bike once a week.

 

#WINNING

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:07 | Link to Comment 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

How does that warrant a downrate? Dont blame me for your fat lazy ass.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:27 | Link to Comment DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

In case you haven't noticed, there are some people at fight club who are mean for its own sake.  Look at the total shit I got for mentioning I bought a Volt, and love it (still do).  Charge it off solar panels, so now I piss off big oil, the guys who collect road taxes, the power company, car companies overseas, and MOST IMPORTANT - everyone else who didn't do as I did.

So, here, if you get it right, you're smug, and people hate you.  If you are a loser like many here, well, you can fit in, but you have to be a loser, so at least to me, it's not worth it.  You could be a winner and just keep your mouth shut about it, I suppose.  Any other way is going to get you junked.  So, don't look at the arrows.

Having the right friends is important - but that goes for enemies too - if I'm pissing off the "right" people - the ones I want to or don't care about, hey, that's a win.

For example, like most, I'm not made of solid money - therefore I had to scrimp and save some to buy my Volt cash.  No big screen TV.  No cable.  Less of a lot of other things.  Most would have to do similar to be able to write that big a check to get freedom from a "subscription" to oil  and coal burning power plants both.  And they didn't, though they know it's not only the right thing to do, but that people who did, like me, are now better off than they are.

Rather than wanting to learn from such, they want to tear them down - we who stand taller just make them jealous and guilty for not doing it themselves, it's not like the writing hasn't been on the wall for at least 4 decades...

When things are going well - yeah, I earned that, personal responsiblity rocks and is the thing.

When things go the other way - look at how quick everyone runs into the blame game.  Has to be someone else's fault.  I think there was another article saying this eternal verity elsewhere hear today...

 

 

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:30 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Some of us have commutes measured in steps, not miles.    Good for you to have a Volt (I mean if that's what you REALLY want).  I'll modify my work environment to fit. 

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:04 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

mean people at fight club?  Oh quick, get me to the fainting couch!

Do you charge your volt from solar panels, or a treadmill?  Wait, don't answer that.  When you talk about living off grid and back in the sticks you're actually pretty cool.

It's that whole govt subsidized underperforming and over hyped grill ignitor on wheels that you bought that makes you a dick every time you start rambling on about it.  That and this wistful longing for everyone to play nice.  But mostly the Volt.  It's like a prius that's been nuetered.

I come here for for the lulz.  And for the cheering effect when I see that there are like minded people all over the damn place.  Something that 25 years ago the MSM wouldn't allow,  all the square pegs were labled as such and non-conformity to the approved script and lifestyle was chagrin and marginalized.

Fortuanately, some of this finance shit has rubbed off on me in this past year or so.  Enough that I know Sam Waterson and that scot trade cock sucker need to have ash stakes driven through their blood sucking hearts.

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 22:38 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I just hope his Volt battery catches fire, that'll teach that eco-nazi.

Obviously, turd-holes like Volt drivers, and their "proud of it" mentality is ushering in the pay-by-the-mile goobermint revenue enhancer.

So tell everyone to eat shit while you can. As soon as you get a little goobermint black box and gps tracker, you'll soon be paying your fair share of transportation taxes.

And since states won't be collecting their fair share of fuel taxes either, expect all major intra and inter-state roadways to offer toll access only.

Idiot Volt drivers think they have the last laugh, but the goobermint will soon be sticking it's big dick down their throats in order steal cash out of their pockets so that they can feel smug and pompous about how they're saving the environment.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:32 | Link to Comment FrankThinkTank
FrankThinkTank's picture

Winning, on the backs of everyone else visa vi the $10k government subsidy, and encouraging inefficient solar production methods. Excellent. At least some portion of those "losers" are driving something they enjoy, for regardless of smarmy peak oil et al, life is ever fleeting. 

My guess is you either fear driving, suck at it, or some combination of the both.

The real losers are those that buy into this government operandi and then flaunt their exhaulted self professed "efficiency".

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:38 | Link to Comment BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

You get that fire retardant suit as an option on that POS Volt?

I drove one. El Crappo! At a sticker price (4 months ago) of 42,132 with several select options, this modern day Edsel is destined for the ash heap of car failures.

How many sold now? close to 10,000? Wow. Chevy Runs mud puddle Deep.

By the way...you aren't pissing off "big oil" there, hot shot. They could give a rats ass about you - or me for that matter.

Your post veers from being semi-decent to full blown doucha-rama. I can't tell if you hate yourself, or every dog you've owned ran away from you...never to come back.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:04 | Link to Comment imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

But U got a smelly ass.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 12:25 | Link to Comment 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

Dont confuse sweaty ass for smelly ass. I know what a shower is - I am not a hippie drowning in patchuli.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:08 | Link to Comment SemperFord
SemperFord's picture

I work 25 miles away and will ride my bicycle too but I enjoy my V8.. downshifting and scaring the tards who are slowing down traffic in their ECO cars while talking on the phone, texting or reading. Been knocked off my bicycle twice in 3 years so its worth the gas sometimes plus I enjoy what I drive. So Up arrow for you, don't take it bad I am sure I will get junked.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:37 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Why can't we have human-powered rickshaws instead of cars? 

I am sure there are literally tens of millions of  latter-day, would-be Middle Kingdom coolies who would rather pull a rickshaw than toil away locked in some Chinese sweatshop making cheap and toxic plastic crap for 72 hours a week (or washing dishes, as the case may be).

Sure, it may not be politically correct (just like using the sensible word "Oriental" apparently is no longer acceptable, for some idiotic reason), but just think about how fun it would be!

(We would have to put diapers on all the imported rickshaw-pullers, though, to keep the Sons of Heaven from shitting on the streets, as is their wont.)

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:33 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

In a world where the pie doesn't get bigger, voluntarily making your slice smaller  ensures the Chinese have a bigger slice.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:05 | Link to Comment imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

Confucius?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:41 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

AnAnonfucius

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 18:05 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonfucius say:

"Bringing up the past is quite nice but one goes into debt by loaning money."

Employer of AnAnonfucius say:

"Chop chop, Chang! This here rick-a-shay ain't gonna pull itself across town."

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:39 | Link to Comment NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Oriental only applies to the Occidental regions of Asia. You know like Vietnam and the such. China is not the Orient. Hong Kong was the Orient for a while, but not China.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 18:01 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

WTF???

Eastern only applies to the western regions of Asia?

The Occidental regions of Asia would include Arabia, Mesopotamia, the Levant, and Turkey.

 

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 07:47 | Link to Comment Are you kidding
Are you kidding's picture

It would put all those welfare collectors and unemployed to work!

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:41 | Link to Comment Sauk Leader
Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:41 | Link to Comment Misean
Misean's picture

"And until commuters move beyond the carbon mindset"

Yes, I myself have moved beyond the carbon mindset and I now no longer exhale CO2. This guy is brilliant....

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 22:39 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I have to completely agree. I gave up eating all vegetables and protiens since they contain carbon and only result in carbon being extruded into the sewer system.

I've found that the nobel gases and elements like silicone, lead and mercury are not only fullfilling but life sustaining. And, I've been looking into the lanthanoids and the actinoids to take the place of salads, while topping my lanthanoids and actinoids with Flerovium and Livermorium.

I'll I can say is now I know how a copper wire extruder feels like.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 01:21 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Um, silicone != Silicon

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:44 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Lame.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:08 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

And until commuters move beyond the carbon mindset, that ride to work will continue to be a rough one.

Most American commuters are urban, and must drive 20-50 miles one way to their  jobs.

Those that are not in areas w/any mass transit.................are forced to drive.

So be it, at least they have a damn job, if your working a job that requires a vehicle, then you pay the piper.

Been that way forever, try sitting in lines for an hour or so , or only being able to get filled every other day........................

Been there ,done that, and as long as you net more than your trans costs, and have a decent pay rate, your happy in this shitty no economy to have it.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:35 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

And how many of those cars are transporting just ONE passenger?

What the fuck is wrong with carpooling?

You can be sure that if I had to make the insanely long daily commute of most lemminglike Americans (thank God I do not), I would be trying to carpool with at LEAST one other person.  But I guess making minor sacrifices for major payoffs does not fit into the typical me-me-me, terminally impatient, terminally self-indulgent modern American mindset.

This is NOT about forcing anyone to do anything --- it is about practicing common sense, which as Ben Franklin cogently observed, is unfortunately "not so common".

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:49 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

akak,

 I agree about car pooling, but, it depends on WHERE you live, and work.

Due to lack of use of HOV lanes, it would save way more fuel to open those up to ALL traffic, rather than have 50 vehicles every 15 mins with two, hold up 3 lanes of singles sitting bumper to bumper for an hour.

Millions of Americans are not in office jobs, they are driving all day in urban traffic for their jobs.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:25 | Link to Comment FrankThinkTank
FrankThinkTank's picture

Carpooling, lulz

Human convergance is a rare thing, and that's barring any extraneous factors like: shit temp jobs, overall shit mindsets, and a polarized populace.

You go ahead and find a nice congenial group that is going to carpool to the nearest bus stop somewhat near that temp job you just scored - please let the rest of us know how it worked out for you.

When Ed stops showing to pick you up because he lost or quit his job, and you are then late/fired, blame carpooling.

You'll be wishing you drove your '95 grand am instead. Minor sacrifices.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:46 | Link to Comment noses
noses's picture

What's wrong with living where you're working?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:54 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

What's wrong with living where you're working?

 

One word, crime, and lack of stores/offices/markets that cater to all your needs, and services.

Remember this is a big ass country.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:11 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

LOL, you can't tell those gifted, enlightened urbanites anything, you shit kicking red neck! 

They already know what's best.   You said crime, which is a nice way of saying "people of distinction that shall not be named lest they riot". 

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 02:05 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Nothing at all.  I do live where I work ... well 15 steps from it anyway.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 13:27 | Link to Comment Thoth
Thoth's picture

Job situations can change rapidly, requiring another costly move by your model if you were to find another job. Could mean changing your kids school so you can have your little walk to work. Also, I think it would be rare to have two spouses working within walking distance of their respective offices. No family I'm guessing?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:08 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

no correct.  and funny.  It pokes good, smarmy fun at the idiocies of the hyperventilating, AL Gore 2nd chakra releasing worshipful eco freaks that cower when the they see those evil contrails floating down to poison us all.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 18:29 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture

Plants breath CO2. Natural gas is under $2. Methinks the sky might not be falling for energy supply and the ol' carbon footprint.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 22:32 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Sssshhhhhhh. All the eco-nazis want us to move to ghetto's, err, I mean urban concentration camps so that we can live on top of each other like rats in a sewer.

With everyone forced to ride bikes or mass transit, we can devolve into what China looked like before they discovered:

"To get rich is glorious." -- Deng Xiaoping

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:44 | Link to Comment yabyum
yabyum's picture

I can ride to work for 40 ml of gas. Honda metro Bitches! Do not take the busy roads...organ donor bitches.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:44 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Gasoline is dirt cheap right now.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:51 | Link to Comment Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Absolutely right!   Adjusted for inflation, it cost a heck-of-a-lot more in the '60s.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:57 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Literally.

 

Bag of dirt = $3.50

Gallon of gasoline = $3.50

 

I see sloburbans and expeditions right and left around here. These people can't afford a dentist but they have more toys than the law allows. I hope gasoline doubles.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:42 | Link to Comment Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Same around here. They go up and down the road all day! Don't know what they do for work and it's gotta cost them $30/day.

But, at least they put on fuel saving exhaust systems

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:52 | Link to Comment narnia
narnia's picture

Gasoline would plummet in price if our military cut consumption by 90% and every federal, state & local government employee had to walk or bike to work.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:04 | Link to Comment 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

I read a report that claimed (based on early 2000s govt data) that the average fuel economy of gubmit vehicles (military and state, etc) is 12mpg. Fail.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:11 | Link to Comment Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

It's gotta be way lower than that, if you include military vehicles and the mobile launcher platform, which gets 42 feet per gallon.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:42 | Link to Comment NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I think he was referring to the GSA vehicles, not the strictly military vehicles that actually run on JP-8 not gasoline.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:40 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Gasoline would plummet in price if our military cut consumption by 90% and every federal, state & local government employee had to walk or bike to work.

There is no SHORTAGE of gasoline in the US at all, matter of fact we export 28% of our REFINED gasoline now.

Consumers are using far less than is available, so logiclally there is no reason for gas to be at these levels, except for specualtors, and importers set pricing.

Why IMPORT, when we export our domestic production @ 28% now?.Unless I am brain dead, in every case where supply is far greater than demand, prices drop.

Matter of fact refineries have closed due to LACK of demand in the USA.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:08 | Link to Comment narnia
narnia's picture

Refineries don't refine air or seawater.  They refine a substance in limited supply that has many applications, some of which may be more profitable than gasoline for specific use in the US.  

Ignoring the monetary aspect, there's 2 things that make a substance fall in trade value.  There's less demand of it or there's a cheaper alternative.

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:14 | Link to Comment imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

I'll try to jump start your brain.  The biggest operating cost involved in refining crude oil into finished products is the natural gas used to heat the crap and crack the molecules.  Guess where in this world refineries have a big cost advantage in the natural gas dept.?  We still import over 1/2 of our crude.  Our refineries are kicking butt because they can import, refine and export at a lower cost than their competitors.  It is NOT a story about how we are somehow "floating" in fuel.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 00:38 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Wow... some one gets it...

You should also include the fact that on the whole, the US refineries are best equipped to deal with the increasingly viscous sulfurous goo that is called crude oil...

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:35 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Every drop of gasoline you inconvenience yourself by not using is a drop for Chinese citizens to drink up.

The pie isn't growing.  If you make your slice smaller, China takes what you leave.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:17 | Link to Comment imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

Moa Zedong?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:18 | Link to Comment imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

I typed it right.  It's Mao's sister.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:19 | Link to Comment zuuma
zuuma's picture

Yup.

Look up the price of a silver, pre-65 quarter today.

http://www.coinflation.com/silver_coin_values.html

$5.58 each.

 

When I was a kid in 1969, gas was 29 cents/ gal for my lawnmower "Business".

 

Gas is less today, priced in almost-worthless FRNs

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:45 | Link to Comment AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

Great non-statement article there Graeber, in other news people are fat because they eat too much and until they change those habits they will not be able to reduce weight.

You forgot to mention that most of the rise in commodities have been in large part thanks to ZIRP.

And let's be honest, high oil prices are good for America and by America I mean the oil companies and the politicians they own.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:36 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

You are right.  This article was exceptionally lame.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:46 | Link to Comment Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Mass public transit going up in price, too.  In July, my monthly T Pass goes from $59-to-$70.  And it's also slated to go up AGAIN next year.

This shit don't end well.....

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:53 | Link to Comment FlyoverCountryS...
FlyoverCountrySchmuck's picture

Did you think those Public-Sector Union Bus Drivers making more than 747 pilots wasn't going to cost you anything?

SOMEONE has to pay for those 6-figure retirements. Did you think you would be exempt?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:20 | Link to Comment imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

But how could that be?  Mass transit is carbon free.  Those 120,000 lbs "light rail" cars glide through the air on solar magnetic fields.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:46 | Link to Comment NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

That has more to do with the driver's wages and the such, rather than price of fuel.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:46 | Link to Comment Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

High gas prices are purely a reflection of the expanding money supply.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:53 | Link to Comment BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

Exactly

Same could be said about equities IMO.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:21 | Link to Comment imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

Not mine.  Beg to differ.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:57 | Link to Comment vincent van goo
vincent van goo's picture

But anything we actually use is not included in core CPI.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:47 | Link to Comment Debeachesand Je...
Debeachesand Jerseyshores's picture

You forgot to mention that the overall American fleet of cars and light trucks is smaller now than before the Great Recession/depression.

Sales of cars and light trucks are millions of units below their pre-recession levels of 16 to 16/5 million units a year and cars and light trucks going to the junk yard one way or the other is still at or near pre-recession levels.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:47 | Link to Comment realtick
realtick's picture

US CRUDE OIL PRODUCTION - US GDP PERCENT CHANGE FROM YEAR AGO

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zJoEEQIBjko/T5SjKoEo5GI/AAAAAAAAB1k/OuEFyWCpQbU/s1600/120422XX.png

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:48 | Link to Comment The Heart
The Heart's picture

You can bet there is going to be real change after the romulan is elected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWDJEc92d38

sarc\

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 22:46 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

So are you trying to say that Romney is just a bleached version of the Monkey In Chief?

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 01:29 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Ya gotta wonder just WHO all those "Christian fundamentalists" are gonna vote for in Nov:  "Moderate" Republicon or Socialist Decepticrat!  (mebbe they'll all stay home on election day!)

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:01 | Link to Comment freedogger
freedogger's picture

I dealt with this a few years ago. Been riding an electric bike to work rain, shine and snow. Costs about 10 cents a charge and I charge at work. Parking is free and close to the door. My regular car mostly sits on the driveway except for a couple of errands close by every week. Drive about 15,000 km less than previous years which were around 20,000km. I get to work in about the same time or faster as I can take it on pathways and through parks. Top speed is 50km/hr, range about 28km.

The thing looks pretty much exactly like a normal mountain bike. Cops don't even notice it (unless I haul ass on it in front of them).

I can pedal if I want to. On mornings going in, I take it easy and arrive non-sweaty. Going home I usually pedal a fair bit for some exercise.

Also, it is pretty damn fun.

www.ebikes.ca and www.endless-sphere.com/forums are great places to start if interested.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:38 | Link to Comment 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

+1000

 

Edit: and now youre more likely to be healthy which costs us all less in medical premiums. You socialist.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:35 | Link to Comment freedogger
freedogger's picture

Unless a car takes me out...

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 12:31 | Link to Comment 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

With more people riding bikes there are fewer cars to take you out. If there was actually cycling specific infrastructure like separate bike lanes then cars would have a really difficult time taking you out. Of course if youre in a car, another car could never take you out.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:56 | Link to Comment MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

The clown show continues!

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:56 | Link to Comment Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Government intervention into commodities = scarcity.  Look how many refiners shut down after the last intervention in the oil market. Learn from the mistake. 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:57 | Link to Comment DarkestPhoenix
DarkestPhoenix's picture

Without the government's 14% cut on every gallon, gas would only be $3.44 instead of $4.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:10 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Without the government's 14% cut on every gallon, gas would only be $3.44 instead of $4.

Left out the largest CUT state tax is higher on fuel than Federal.

Literally at least a $1.00 per gal is taxes, +/- what it is selling for.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 22:51 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

And, if you're lucky, or as some would have it, unlucky to live in a county that also tacs on its own local fuel tax, then you're paying the $1.00 + per gallon.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:28 | Link to Comment Hagbard Celine
Hagbard Celine's picture

who needs those pesky public roads anyway?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:10 | Link to Comment Mercury
Mercury's picture

Gasoline is a necessity and that's in part why the debate ensues. Without massive subsidies, gasoline is going to get more expensive no matter what the politicians say. And until commuters move beyond the carbon mindset, that ride to work will continue to be a rough one.

Damn commuters and your internal combustion engines!...flap the wings that God gave ya!

I suppose when food prices start to spike people will also have to deal with it...or move beyond their biological nutrition based mindset.

Eventually higher gas prices will make pretty much everything else more expensive too.  So, under what circumstances will ever higher gasoline prices be considered inflation?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:34 | Link to Comment FlyoverCountryS...
FlyoverCountrySchmuck's picture

You are trying to speak common sense to a Group-Think koolaid drinker. Give it up.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:06 | Link to Comment firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=a103600001&f=m

Gas is actually expensive on the demand side of the equation, while supply side has been pretty flat.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=wgfupus2&f=4

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:08 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Yeah in Canada now, it's 5.55$/gal...

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:37 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

And in Saudi Arabia its .20 cents a gallon.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:25 | Link to Comment imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

But that's because your loonie is only worth about a ..... oh nevermind.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:11 | Link to Comment DavidJ
DavidJ's picture

"But gasoline demand is down more than 3 percent compared with the same period last year.

the word demand should be replaced with the word consumption.   Demand may have not changed, it is the consumption that has changed.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:15 | Link to Comment Dirtt
Dirtt's picture

Thanks for the insight Graeber.  You should have submitted this to the AP for Idiot USA.

When I want to know how grass grows I'll seek out Graeber for some groundbreaking revelations about water and dirt and sunlight.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:25 | Link to Comment WTF_247
WTF_247's picture

The whole argument is laughable.  A single account (or combined accounts controlled by the same entity) set up as a speculative account can own a maximum of 3000 (if I am not mistaken) contracts of the front month in oil.  The contract trades 600,000+ contracts per day.

I would love for someone to show me how any individuals or group of individuals working in collusion could actively manipulate price given the contract limit vs contracts traded per day.  All you have to do is look to stocks for guidance.  Would any reasonable person assume you could "manipulate at will" shares in a company that trades 600,000 shares per day with a single maximum position of 3000 shares?  You might be able to control it if you got perhaps 20 accounts all working together in collusion sor a short period of time.  For months at a time - no friggin way.  Once you all go "all in long" to force price up there is nothing to hold it up.  

Given the leverage in oil and the inherent volatility, 3000 contracts = $3 million up or down per 1 dollar move in oil.  Oil moves up or down $1.00 or more almost every day.  To withstand the volatility of a max contract position, you would likely need an account with at least $50 or $100 mil to handle the swings.  If I had to guess, the majority (90%+) of speculative accounts trading oil have a balance of $500,000 or less in them.

Commercial accounts are a bit different if you have a hedge account your position size can be much larger - but the key there is "hedge" not speculate.

Now sovereign governments are another story - there are no rules they have to abide by.  I would guess if there is any "demon speculator" that is where I would point the finger.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:55 | Link to Comment GittyUP
GittyUP's picture

Ive always wondered why an OPEC country couldnt manipulate the oil markets.  All they would have to do if buy up future contracts and take phyical delivery.  They would just be paying themselves at that point and driving up the cost to everyone else.  They would only lose transaction costs. 

They could even use the oil they take as delivery for domestic consumption subsidized of course. 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:14 | Link to Comment carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Simpler to cut back on production.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 18:04 | Link to Comment Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Do you really think that the price OPEC charges for tanker has anything to do with what it is traded in the COMEX pits?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:32 | Link to Comment dolly madison
dolly madison's picture

To get beyond the carbon mindset we need massive zoning changes.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:54 | Link to Comment dolly madison
dolly madison's picture

I really don't see why you would be clicking the down arrow on zoning changes.  Because we zone work away from home it makes driving necessary for everything. It would be better to intersperse jobs and homes.  In communities that they have tried this, it  has been wildly popular, and people have paid more to live there.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 18:02 | Link to Comment dolly madison
dolly madison's picture

I live in a small, old town.  Work and housing are interspersed.  It is lovely.  I can walk to most things I need.  My business is next door to my house. 

I think you thought I meant highrise apartments or something like that.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:33 | Link to Comment ZeroPoint
ZeroPoint's picture

So we should be living in 700 sq foot apartments in pack 'em & stack 'em buildings while getting the pleasure of having to pay rent and having someone else set the rules for how you live?

No thanks. 

I like my 9 acres 30 miles from work, and 50 miles outside the blast radius of 'metro life'.

Freedom has it's price. But at the same time, freedom is priceless.

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:22 | Link to Comment carguym14
carguym14's picture

Wasn't that one of the UNs goals??The majority living in cities enjoying their meager chocolate rations.....

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 15:59 | Link to Comment ZeroPoint
ZeroPoint's picture

Yes. The Agenda 21 crap. They want ownership of land 'reserved' to the state, and you living in an apartment where you 'share' resources with 5,000 other people in your building. Suburban housing is considered a no-no. Owning a car is considered a no-no. And owning a firearm - prison time when you are caught.

Agenda 21 will enslave your children and kill you.

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:34 | Link to Comment bobola
bobola's picture

Bicycle commuted to work 3 times last week.

Rode the 2 wheeler again today.

Bike Club - who's with me....????

Rule #1 - talk about Bike Club...

Rule#2 - TALK ABOUT BIKE CLUB...!!!!!!!

Get healthier and lower your expenses - ride a bike everywhere...........

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:38 | Link to Comment kurt
kurt's picture

Amyl nitrited  Ren & Stimpy-esque monster with bulging juglar veins and bloodshot eyes, dry humping, clench jawed,  oil industry needs a few more licks at our bloody portal.  "Not...yet... I'm comming..." Happy Driving Season!

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:38 | Link to Comment Vince Clortho
Vince Clortho's picture

This Obama fella sure understands the gasoline price thing.

Thanks for the Heads Up.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:38 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Lame^2.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:40 | Link to Comment BLACK_DOG
BLACK_DOG's picture

I asked Hillary if I could use her broom!

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:24 | Link to Comment carguym14
carguym14's picture

She may have thought you had something else in mind with the broom........

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:40 | Link to Comment Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

Well hell, Graeber is just talkin' his book.

"But on the business side, protection against potential oil shocks in the long-term could help push a reinvigorated U.S. economy over the recessionary hump."

WTF? And how does this 'long-term protection' come about? and the assumption that our present 'recessionary hump' is due soley to gas prices? Don't think so. There is this housing business, and unemployment business, and....Hedge all you want, energy prices (not just gas) are on a long term up, despite what is happening with natural gas right now.

Commuters may not be able to get beyond the carbon mindset, but they certainly are thinking alternatives - whether through more hybrid vehicles, car pools, bikes, nat gat vehicles - and as the price of gas continues to rise, the alternatives will proliferate. It's called 'market forces' - some of us still believe in them, though it can take longer than it should in subsidy city before they take effect.

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:42 | Link to Comment barliman
barliman's picture

 

If someone barely literate on a topic makes a guest post, does a tree fall in a silent forest?

NNNNNGGGGGG !!!! Time's up.

The "move beyond carbon mindset" and "peak oil" wacko's have had their 15 minutes of spotlight time (generously supported by their sponsors, the truly illiterate liberal/progessive nut jobs).

Unless you are willing to proclaim yourself a "better Gaia live and humans die" terrorist, it is time to face facts:

The carbon fuels are used because of their energy density to cost ratio (i.e. [joules/cm3]/[gram of gold] ).

If the total cost is priced in, without any subsidies,

(no rants about oil subsidies - do the math and let me know what fractional percentage of a diffference this adds before you then subtract out the tax revenues the state and federal goverment levy which act as a negative subsidy for oil),

including total cost of use

{e.g. electric cars must include not only the cost of the car's tax subsidy being added back in; it must also include the ENTIRE lifetime costs of the electric source including the environmentally unfriendly costs associated with solar panel production and eventual disposal costs if that were to be the production method used}

there is no viable alternative to the carbon fuels which the WORLD can switch to without causing a complete global collapse. 

(My personal favorite from a '70's engineering course - replacing every car with a horse, every bus with a carriage team of horses, etc in use at that point in time would require every square foot of the earth's surface, including both polar areas, to be covered in 4 feet of horseshit.  Which would preclude growing crops or having any type of health standards so GAME OVER for the human beings)

I explained this to a liberal, in detail, in the summer of 2008 with this addendum:   Forget all the conspiracy monkey nonsense. If there was a remotely competitive alternative, someone would already be working to exploit it (a la the Canadian oil sands) so they could sell it to a world (& China) with an ever increasing demand.   He has been less shocked than his brethren in Obama's inability to party the seas, move us to alternate energy sources and other assorted non-real world proposals.

barliman

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:14 | Link to Comment bobola
bobola's picture

barliman, 

All good points.

Don't dscount the lowly bike for city transport;  "..As a relatively light and slow vehicle, with low-friction tires, and an efficient chain-driven drivetrain, the bicycle is the most efficient form of transport..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_efficiency_in_transportation

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:27 | Link to Comment GCT
GCT's picture

I do not care if a person drives a volt or not.  I just do not like subsidizing their production.  Let GM sell them without our subsidies and see how well they do.  Hell some states are already thinking about taxing them because of their loss on fuel taxes. 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 18:53 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture

Barliman

While I empathize with the theme, please bless us with the horse droppings calculation please. Are you swapping horsepower for horsepower or a car for a horse ?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 23:03 | Link to Comment barliman
barliman's picture

 

If I can find it, I will. The basis was on a car for a horse as I recall. The professor pointed out it was an inherent fallacy of the exercise since the two do not have equal service capabilitities and that it should be done on a horsepower to horsepower basis to have any sort of rigor but ... the "we should all live as we did 100 years ago" enthusiasts were not well schooled enough in mathematics to be able to handle the complex equations required.

There were extra credit proofs the students could undertake, if they wanted. The easiest was, "Calculate the number of horses required just to move grains, hay, etc to railheads for shipment via trains, flatboats. etc. GLOBALLY."

If anyone feels I am being to hard on the "live as we did 100 years ago" theory, please view the clips of "Frontier House" available on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Frontier+House&oq=Frontier+House&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_nf=1&gs_l=youtube.3..0l10.1692.4973.0.11505.14.14.0.4.4.0.284.1065.2j5j1.8.0.

Three modern families tried the experiment for the PBS series and discovered how rigorous life was for homesteaders in 1883. Strangely enough, although every participant lost virtually ALL of their bodyfat ... this has never caught on as a diet regimen.

barliman

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 19:55 | Link to Comment PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

Barliman-

Photovoltaics are already popping up on the roofs of the houses of those who want to cash in.  Sometimes things we were sure were true....turn out not to be.

Map of hydrogen refueling stations in Europe:  http://www.h2euro.org/latest-news/hydrogen-hits-the-roads/twelve-new-hyd....  Skeptics were sure the "horseless carriage" would never amount to anything, either.  Before the Arab embargo, oil was $3/barrel.  It's now $100/barrel, and we drill for it miles underwater.

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 23:13 | Link to Comment barliman
barliman's picture

 

Lest I be thought completely of a "carbon mindset" in outlook ...

We could deploy solar panels or wind turbines in sufficient quantity on our property to be self-sufficient and sell extra back to the utility. The problem is it makes no economic sense to do so.

Solar panels need to at least double their efficiency and cut their per square foot cost to 0.25 times the current subsidized price to BEGIN to be feasible. This excludes the labor required to keep solar panels clean and performing up to peak efficiency.  I wasn't aware of the cleaning requirement until I seriously began pricing a system.

Wind turbines efficient enough to reliable provide power are EXPENSIVE and must be maintained and serviced despite being on a 30'- 50' tower. I am not afraid of heights but I also know that working at heights on a regular basis dramatically increases the probability of making a potentially fatal mistake.

I have also not included the life cycle cost of batteries required for power storage for either system. They are expensive since they include chemicals requiring careful recycling and disposal at the end of their use.

The lowest cost option which works in our case would be to purchase a properly sized generator (and a twin for backup), install a LARGE propane tank and generate my own electricity ... for 4X the cos/KWht I currently pay the local utility.

Extra credit for anyone who spots the lower than the utility cost/KWh alternative I left out of this discussion due to spatial constraints.

barliman

P.S. While reading downthread comments - I drive a vehicle which could be easily converted to natural gas and has been sold that way in its country of origin. Anyone able to figure out that puzzle?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 23:51 | Link to Comment PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

Not sure where you're gettings your facts - or from what century?  PV is pretty close to parity with buying power from a utility, right now - and with the present subsidies, rooftop PV pays for itself in four years. 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/01/climate-solar-prices-idUSL5E8CV3LT20120201

 

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 00:15 | Link to Comment barliman
barliman's picture

 

Oh my goodness ...

... are you next going to provide me with a link to leasing a "PV" system for a nominal price? A self cleaning one to boot?

Subsidies are like soap bubbles - you never know when they are going to 'pop'.

We are barreling down the highway to hell of unsubstainable economic policies. I am disinclined to include government subsidies in my economic calculations.

One other wrinkle, we built this place with energy conservation in mind from the get go. How does a "PV" system pay for itself in four years if electricity is less than 40% of my annual energy costs?

barliman

 

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 00:49 | Link to Comment PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

Actually, you brought up subsidies. You posted:

"Solar panels need to at least double their efficiency and cut their per square foot cost to 0.25 times the current subsidized price to BEGIN to be feasible. This excludes the labor required to keep solar panels clean and performing up to peak efficiency.  I wasn't aware of the cleaning requirement until I seriously began pricing a system."

Not sure how you dreamed up the cleaning requirement.  You're completly out to lunch on that.   

You haven't the vaguest clue what you're talking about, do you? Let me guess - FoxNews viewer?

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 01:00 | Link to Comment barliman
barliman's picture

 

Vaguest clue?  Moi?

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&pq=gideon%20sundback&cp=33&gs_id=3t&xhr=t&q=do+you+have+to+clean+solar+panels&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=Do+oyu+have+to+clean+solar+panels&aq=0l&aqi=g-l1&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=d9991961a7203141

If you are unaware of the cleaning requirement (i.e. pollen, air pollution, dust) YOU are the least qualified person in the world to discuss this topic.

Fox News? Even less often than I watch MSNBC.

Have you got the "leg tingle" problem under control yet?

barliman

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:43 | Link to Comment Crab Cake
Crab Cake's picture

This article makes not a whisper of a mention of inflation and its link to money printing/monetary policy, and that is burgeoning on criminal disinformation. TBTF is dumping their "free" hot money into commodities (right off the back of the citizenry) that was handed to them by Benny. I blame Wall St for alot of things, and rightfully so, but this problem comes straight from the Fed that is headquartered in DC, and sanctioned by the fascists that reside there and purport to represent us.

The banks and the fed must be destroyed. Only then can we fix our government and our societal issues; it has never been more clear.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:59 | Link to Comment Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

If people think it is bad now, wait until the petro dollar benefit goes away completely.  Between that loss and the massive inflation going on, fuel prices will of course continue to rise.  Who here really needed to be told those facts however?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:10 | Link to Comment css1971
css1971's picture

I would just like to take this moment to thank America for inventing the both the suburbs requiring a 50 mile journey to get anywhere and the Chevy Suburban so you can do it in apropriate "style". I'm relying on you to fund my retirement, in appropriate style.

Remember. It's your gas not their oil.

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:21 | Link to Comment zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

45 years ago, I worked for a company that made railroad tank cars. The forklifts we used ran on propane.

The trucks that delivered the propane ran on propane. The sales reps cars ran on propane. A rep showed

me the two propane tanks in the trunk of the car. When one ran out, he could just flip a switch to the other

tank, giving him ample time to refill the other tank. He told me the conversion kit cost less than $200 and 

was simple to install and uninstall if necessary. That was a long time ago. We have the cheap technology to

convert all government vehicles to propane and take the pressure off of gasolene prices. So why are we not

doing it?

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 18:25 | Link to Comment Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Most Taxis in Australia run on LPG  the Govt even subsidizes the conversion.

Problem is that most cars are too tightly engineered to accept an LPG tank without ripping out the petrol tank first.

Then you are left with a car that must be refueled at an LPG service station only.

Also if you run out of LPG you cant just grab a can of gas to get yourself going.

In  a big country like Aust or USA running out of LPG in a remote area could be problematical.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 19:04 | Link to Comment Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

He's talking about a tanked system like your bar b que uses.  On a forklift you just pop the tank off and swap it with a full one so you just keep a spare tank and swap the empty one out for full at a dealer.

 

But most of these solutions are no longer solutions when implemented on a large scale.  "We have hunderds of years of natural gas" (current exaggeration) turns into "We have 30 years of natural gas" when we start using it for everything.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 19:31 | Link to Comment Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

The forklift method is well known, obviously you cant drive one to a gas station every time you need to fill up.

My favorite Ute (Pickup) runs on dual fuel, I can switch from petrol to LPG on the go.

It has one fuel tank for each and you can get LPG at about 30% of the gas stations in Aust, it costs about 1/2 to 1/3 the price of premium.

All the stories about problems with this type of fuel are pure  B/S.

It works just fine.

I scratch my head whenever I travel to Europe or the U/S in utter disbelief that there is no equivalent system.

LPG is a partial solution for sure..but one that serves its purpose perfectly well.

 

 

 

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 21:38 | Link to Comment Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

more and more people are waking up to cng vehicles, and it's happening despite a complete lack of leadership from washington.  states and municipalities all over the place are getting on board, and so long as the feds keep their dumb asses out of the way it will continue apace.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 18:58 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture

"So why are we not doing it?"

1. It makes too much sense.

2. The propane/ natgas boys can't afford a politician.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 21:26 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Here in Canada natgas car and truck conversions were sold in the early 80s. In some cities nearly all new taxis were natgas. The government offered a subsidy for buying a natgas vehicle. There were licensed installation and repair shops. The tanks went in the trunk and a special carburetor went on top of the original one. They worked well and were reliable but got about 25% less mileage than gasoline.

Then gas shortages ended, the price of oil went down, the subsidy program ended and everyone forgot the whole thing.

Next thing you know every second vehicle on the road is a 12MPG SUV with one person in it.

People forget fast.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:36 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

AH yes, so as soon as 'the consumer' gets with the program and just walks everywhere for transportation, 'the problem' will just get worse. 

Well fuck this, theyre paying .20 cents a gallon for gas in Saudi Arabia and Iraq so blow it out your asses White House Wall St and politicians.

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:38 | Link to Comment Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

NATURAL GAS.

 

bitchez.

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