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Guest Post: Going Off Grid - Montana Style!
Submitted by Brandon Smith from Alt-Market
Going Off Grid - Montana Style!
The concept of off-grid living is often encumbered by numerous false assumptions and associations. Many think that to delve into the lifestyle you must be either a grizzled anti-social mountain man, a pompous starry-eyed hippie, or, a criminal on the lam. The spectrum of characterizations range from “kooky” bunker building militia members to spoiled Al Gore worshipping vegan hipsters out to prove they are better than everyone else by reducing their “carbon footprint”. The point is, for the average television-fed American, the idea of off-grid life automatically conjures visions of the extreme.
I believe this reaction is due in large part to our society’s obsession with feeling “connected”. Ever challenge a friend or family member to go without touching their cell phone for a day? Ever ask them to shut off their TV and see if they can find other ways to occupy themselves? Ever ask them to leave modern conveniences behind, if only for a weekend, to take part in some simple camping? I can say that in my own experience, nine out of ten people will stare at you pale faced like you just kicked them square in the loins. For them, leaving behind the buzz of our make-believe culture is the same as stepping outside of time, or abandoning one’s very identity. The whole suggestion is alien.
Luckily, here in Montana, I’ve encountered far hardier souls than in most other places, and the pursuit of an existence disconnected from dependence on the system is not treated as quite so outlandish. In fact, many here have taken the leap into self-sufficiency and gone 100% off-grid. I was lucky enough to meet one of these pioneers recently, and take a tour of his farm, but what interested me most about him were his origins, which were rooted about as far away from his current environment as you can get…
Rich Scheben was once a highly respected sales associate in the world of big-pharma, who had spent much of his life in the urban landscape of New York. He received accolades for his performance working within titanic companies like Merck and Glaxo, but his dream had always been to pursue a career in forestry. Despite having a degree in the field as well as a long history participating in wilderness sports, he soon discovered that affirmative action quotas within state and federal institutions were stringent. His applications were passed up time and again while others with little to no experience or training were hired immediately because of their politically designated victim-status. The corporate world too was rife with people who climbed upwards on the efforts of more worthy employees, or who were given positions of prominence based on their willingness to schmooze with management, rather than work hard.
Finally, when Rich noticed troubling health difficulties creeping up on him, a fateful doctor’s visit revealed severe damage in his spinal column. The company immediately found out, and sidelined him.
These circumstances led Rich not only to question the structure and meaning of his efforts within the circus-like corporate framework, but to also question the structure and meaning of modern America. Today, he is an avid supporter of the Liberty Movement, a devout Constitutionalist, decidedly anti-corporate oligarchy, and even anti-big pharma. His day-to-day financial existence is built upon savings, sound money, and living below his means. His health habits have taken a 180 degree turn, and he is now subsisting on largely organic and home grown diet. Everything has changed.
Rich Scheben holding a bull trout caught in his backyard
In a beautiful corner of Northwest Montana, Mr. Scheben found a sizable plot of land to begin his off-grid adventure. He recommends varied terrain, rather than flat. The more rough the terrain, the more resources are generally available, and the more privacy you are usually afforded. With hills, valleys, gorges, and even a river, Scheben has an incredible array of land types at his disposal.
The main cabin is a straightforward structure without a lot of the elaborate design often seen in average suburban McMansions. Electricity is provided by a small solar array and a minimal battery bank. I have always said that it does not take much in terms of solar power in order to adequately supply an off-grid retreat or farm, and Rich’s system is a perfect example. With only four deep-cycle batteries charging on a minimal array, Rich is able to fulfill all his electricity needs.
The cabin itself is heated by a single wood stove, which is fueled by cords of wood from timber growing on Scheben’s land. Water is supplied by a well and pump, which is then hoisted to a large tank on the second floor. The tank uses gravity to feed the faucets on the first floor below. Bathroom cleaning is handled in a number of ways. Hot showers can be had using a solar shower filled and placed near the wood stove to warm. Water can be heated and poured into the bathtub. Relieving one’s self is handled in a good old fashioned out-house.
Scheben's wood stove, which adequately heats his entire cabin
Though Rich still stocks bulk foods from town, his farm is completely capable of providing enough food that he would never have to leave if he so desired. His garden area is not immense, and can easily be worked by hand. In fact, it does not take much space at all to grow more than enough produce for a family if needed, and Scheben’s lifestyle proves that if every landowner used a corner of his yard for a garden, centralized farming and food production would disappear. Livestock rounds out the food necessities of Schebens farm, including chickens for meat and eggs, goats for milk and cheese, turkeys, etc. With land surrounded by Montana wilderness, wild game is abundant, and there is little to no chance of Scheben ever going hungry.
Scheben's homemade greenhouse with bathtub for summer bathing
Wild elk roaming through Scheben's property
One issue that is constantly raised when discussing Off-Grid living is that of cost. The problem is that so many people only consider the initial expenditures involved when diving into this new life, but never take into account the extreme SAVINGS involved after they have settled in. Scheben’s daily costs are next to nothing. His land provides nearly every essential imaginable, and the financial drain after setting up shop is minute in comparison to the average suburbanite. This is what preppers in the Liberty Movement need to understand when uncertain about the Off-Grid strategy. Ultimately, it is about providing for yourself for next to nothing what you once had to pay out the nose for!
Going off-grid also does not necessarily mean abandoning technology, and I was glad to see that Scheben felt the same way. He uses LED’s, not hurricane lanterns. He surfs the internet and keeps up with news events, instead of isolating himself in the backwoods from the concerns of the world. He rides ATV’s back and forth across his land, not horses (though horses are great if you can keep them). There is a serious misconception out there that going off-grid or living through a collapse will automatically necessitate a return to a pre-industrial 18th century type of existence. This is simply not so. The technological advances of today should be mixed and melded with the agricultural skills of yesterday. Neither should be hastily cast aside if we are to find balance once again in our culture.
In light of our current chaotic economic situation, as well as the potential for social breakdown, energy crisis, hyperinflation, freight disruption, and global war, the off-grid life is not just a hobby, but a valuable form of insurance. There may come a day when, whether we like it or not, we will all be forced to survive off-grid. Some will be prepared with the expertise required to make it work. Some will have at least a practical understanding of the methods and philosophies that drive decentralized and independent living. Others will not.
Frankly, if a former New York big-pharma salesman like Rich Scheben is able to wake up to the social catastrophe looming in our country’s future, and the extraordinary significance inherent in off-grid knowledge, then anyone can, and the dismissive excuses I hear so often from those who can’t wrap their heads around the importance of this step in the realm of survival, now tend to ring lazy and hollow…
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"If you buy one thing that was produced by an on the grid factory, you are not allowed to be independent or self reliant."
So sayth mighty Trav.
You retards expect the rest of us to provide all this shit so you can have your "off grid" life?
No... that's not at all what we expect...
What we'd LIKE though is that when we ARE clever enough to do all this shit... & when we do happen to get the luxury of LOGGING ON... Idiots like you would just STFU & not ruin it for us...
"You keep using this term "off the grid". I do not think it means what you think it means." Go learn what the power grid is, then learn what not plugged into it means. "Off the grid" doesn't mean "I manufacture everything I own and derive no benifit from society" Thats called Self-sufficient. Derp.
I think all that no shit you listed was exactly what such a person was trying to escape from...
I saw 25 acres w/ streams (year round) and a large pond on the side of a massive hill (some people call them mountains...) in Texas for $70,000. If I can afford that I know a lot of you guys can. 25 acres isn't a small piece of property, either. You could have about 10 head of cattle easily if you fenced it.
Anyway... at least you have a place to go when/if the SHTF and just for general peace and quiet on weekends. I think there will be more important things to worry about if/when the SHTF than a guy who's a few months behind on his land note.
wanger you are truly a citified douchebag
have fun with the cannibals when it goes mad max
rural america is actually much cooler and less humane that the foppery of S.F./L.A./N.Y.
please don't come to idaho
You don't have to worry much about those people going anywhere. When they can't put gas in their SUV they'll waddle into a field and lay down and die.
Those of us in Montana can only hope that will be the case LOL!! +1
I live outside San Francisco. It's going to be a headache, having stupid fat people running out of gas and abandoning their cars in my driveway. And then dying in the pumpkin patch out front. I guess I'll have to find a way to compost them.
ROFLMAO! I live about 2 hours outside SF bay area. An hour from the nearest anything... Yeah, exactly;
"OOOOHHH The Roving zombie hoard of Hausfraus and 300 pound database administrators are coming for my corn. I'm SO SCAIRT!!!" Should I shoot em, or let the pack of dobies have em?
You zombie land vengance fantasy people; We've been waiting for this for a long, long time. Some of us for generations. Go ahead, see what happens. You think youre the first idiot with a gun Ive chased off my property?
Those abondon cars will have a lot of useful parts. Such as water pumps. The interior of the cars would make a pretty good greenhouse.
Human needs about 1500 calories per day just puttering around. 1 pound of body fat is about 3500 calories so they'd lose about 3 pounds a week...
How many weeks? Months? Years?
Got to cut off the water.
I store 90 gals in my yard in los angeles so when that day comes, boom, ozark bound non stop flight ! And yes I rotate stock.
90 gallons will take you -- as far as the first barracade at the edge of town, where the local gang-banger (or off-duty officer flashing a badge, or rogue military unit) will confiscate your gas for his/her/their own uses. Any lip from you is a bullet to the head, and your whole family laying dead in a ditch.
I'm not being mean. That's just the shape of things when the SHTF, or things as they will become very quickly after. Everything you think you know now will not apply. At all, will not apply. The services you think will be there, won't. Nobody will let you pass, they won't get out of your lane, they won't pull your truck out of a ditch, they won't respect your property, they won't respect your desire to just get the fuck away.
Come up with a better plan, really stop and think about this. There will be no place to run, and no means to run there, and the people there won't want you there if ever you arrive, and they will quickly kill you for your boots.
Blu that has been a concern but there is always an opportunity window, it's the he who hesitates is lost thing. You don't wait till SHTF, you move before and like anything rolling downhill it takes a little time to generate speed.
I got my land 20 yrs ago before it was cool, two ways in and out one being a hydroelectical dam (easy for the hillbillys to blockade), rural, 2 hrs. from the nearest interstate, plenty of wild game, fresh water, hard woods and easy winters. No plan is perfect, but without one, your SOL.
Does the dam happen to be near a bears paw?
Wow, what a stud. 90 gals? I tried to rotate two of them once. Didnt work out too well for me though.
The good thing I like about living here in Montana is I'm just that much farther from the mobs of people who haven't prepared for the hard times coming. City folk are going to have to deal with roving mobs of mostly young people who have nothing and will attempt to take whatever anyone else has...especially old folks like me.
Montana "culture" is a bit different. I'm sure there will be roving mobs, but they'll be smaller and dealt with in a much more straightforward manner than will be the case "back east" and elsewhere :)
I have enough gold, silver, food, and other necessary supplies to ride out what I call the "transition period". The period of time between the coming economic collapse and when econommic "sanity" returns.
You big city dwellers make think you can live off the grid, but you'll be overwhelmed by mobs of angry, hungry, out of work, out of luck assholes who will kill you for a loaf of bread. If you don't believe it, ask anyone who was in a place like Bosnia in the 90's.
Hairball, Montana resident :)
those hungry people, are a resource, to be employed, to stabilize the community. they just need some new guidance, and assistance, in the transition. most people would rather work for you, than steal from you. be prepared, to teach others, what you have learned, that works.
Lots of them are already on welfare and have forgotten what work even feels like. They will not transition easliy to putting in an honest day's work.
did you forget to add a sarcasm to that? If not you're full of shit. Ask someone who's been in a country where "society" breaks down.
proper service, reduces the risk of breakdown. it's not going to be millions, just more.
Or a place like New Orleans after Katrina...
And when they make it out of those cities, my money is on them getting slaughtered by heavily armed country foks at 20:1 odds, gang banger types included. Its a rare house in my county without a scoped .30-06 in the cabinet and up against urban idiots who think a Glock is a weapon that only ends one way. Guys who are 10 yard shots at best going up against 4-600 yard shots aint gonna be pretty.
Im in the south and not Montana, but in such a nightmare scenario any roving "mobs" in my area will be put down very quickly and brutally, and any roads in and out closed off under the watchful eyes of alot of rednecks looking through rifle scopes.
is your shit fireproof?
In big sky country, the fires go out at 300 yards...
I was laughing thinking, can you just imagine some city bad A heading off into the dense brush dodgin copperheads, tics and an assortment of rather spooky surroundings without a machete? He will surrender by dawn when he realizes he has 4-5 tics nibblin on his package.
seed ticks, and chiggers. *nods*
never. again.
Should have built a berm house.
Could get tiring having to cut all your firewood by hand when you can't get gasoline.
I was thinking the same thing.
If you really going to do this, set yourself up with a good architect, someone who is experienced with zero-net-energy homes. The faux-log-cabin mcMansion in the Woods crap isn't going to cut it if you are doing this for real. You need a compact and efficient dwelling and more and more people are turning to quality, green homes that will make a meaningful contribution to the whole sustainability thing... economic sustainability as well as energy and environment.
When ever I think of off grid I think of this guy's dad at about 4:40 and onward in this vid. These guys are like modern day fur trappers to my way of seeing it, not so much in this vid but in others in the series that he's done. Nice bath at about 7 minutes in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb20c29LbU8&feature=results_video&playnex...
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DrU-j6Seqo&feature=autoplay&list=PL481C5...
great vid.... love harvesting wild mushrooms on my land. especially love encouraging the growth of psilocybe cyanescens they really help you figure out lifes priorities when used in moderation...and the helicopter is pretty sweet although never thought i would stumble across mushroom hunters chartering helos...and the bath great its just like the one i have at my place but i made mine all built into the hillside with a custom firebox underneath routing the smoke around the tub and through a stovepipe away from the tub..i also added a stack of about 6 2x4s going around the top all caulked and screwed together to add some volume so me and my lady can both use it.. wood fired tubs are so simple... do a search on the net and you will find all kinds of peeps getting way to technical trying to heat their water.. using coils and underwater stoves etc... it really is quite simple and free also as i got my tub for free.
Nice, shoots some vids of your lay out if your so inclined, would luv to see it.
I live in Sun Valley
lotta cougars
lotta trout
lotta snowboarding
my kids shred
summers are sick
winters are sick
fall is sick
spring we go to costa rica
CRUSHES SUBURBAN HELL
you guys hike to the top of the mountain and made the snowboards out of wood, right? OFF GRID FTW
"Anyone posting about atypical lifestyle is claiming to be off the grid, and must be ridiculed."
So sayth mighty Trav.
trav won't have to worry about zombies, I say his kids kill him, as soon as they realize they can get away with it.
If fuel prices keep skyrocketing a lot of Americans will be off grid like it or not.
Then again, Obuma will take the money for electricity out of someone elses pocket. Everything will be OK until he runs out of other people's money.
So what you are saying is that if you've participated and thrived in the kleptocracy, you can pick up and move as if you had no involvement in the current farce? How many Detroit plant workers can find a place like that? Moreover, how many off the grid people would be able to handle some Detroit plant workers showing up?
This still stinks of "take what you can get and let everyone else be damned" ethos that infects Wall Street.
So what you are saying is that if you've participated and thrived in the kleptocracy, you can pick up and move as if you had no involvement in the current farce? How many Detroit plant workers can find a place like that? Moreover, how many off the grid people would be able to handle some Detroit plant workers showing up?
This still stinks of "take what you can get and let everyone else be damned" ethos that infects Wall Street.
Sounds like what they're saying.
It worked for Noah, right? . . .
I learned something in Lifeguarding class many years ago. Never jump in to save someone whos drowning. Stay on the land and throw them a preserver. A drowning person will push someone into the water and drown them in a panic just trying to climb out of the water.
Theres only so much you can do for society at large. Being part of the problem doesn't help, it just makes it worse. At least you can live by example.
The whole point of this is that living off the grid isn't dropping out. And I might add, nearly everyone I know that lives off the grid had less means than a detroit plant worker, come to think of it, youre talking to just such a person.
Actually going "off the grid" precisely means dropping out. If you don't drop out, you are still connected, thus "on the grid".
An electrical grid is an interconnected network for delivering electricity from suppliers to consumers.
The stigma exists because only kooks and wakkos (Chris McCandless & Ted Kaczynski come to mind) actually did it. This guy felt butt-hurt because his employer dumped him so he ran away like a teenage girl who saw her crush making out with a band geek.
Also, looks like the Fed has the same strategy of throwing life preservers (cash) to drowning banks and not helping them (forcing them to write down mortgage et al losses, or do anything, for that matter). Glad we all learned to be good lifeguards.
Actually going "off the grid" precisely means dropping out. If you don't drop out, you are still connected, thus "on the grid".
An electrical grid is an interconnected network for delivering electricity from suppliers to consumers.
The stigma exists because only kooks and wakkos (Chris McCandless & Ted Kaczynski come to mind) actually did it. This guy felt butt-hurt because his employer dumped him so he ran away like a teenage girl who saw her crush making out with a band geek.
Also, looks like the Fed has the same strategy of throwing life preservers (cash) to drowning banks and not helping them (forcing them to write down mortgage et al losses, or do anything, for that matter). Glad we all learned to be good lifeguards.
You can make any absurdist argument if you control the definitions. My house is "off the grid", (by your own definition since it is not part of that network) so are many of my neighbors, yet we have jobs, vote, participate in society economy, ect. So we have not Dropped out of society.
Your definition of "off the grid" excludes nearly every person on the planet
The rest of that is just... W/E. Stay in the city. Thats great with me.
Call it absurdist but he buys gas for his atv. He is anything but off the grid. He simply moved houses. People do that all the time. He moved to Montana, which may seem off the grid but the doesn't live that way. He doesn't grow his own food. He doesn't do anything on his own. He lives off of the current infrastructure but in Montana.
A grid is a series of connections. I used an electrical grid because some people might not understand the concept of a grid, thus electricity flowing must be coneected to maintain a current.
Moving to the country isn't going off the grid. Get some perspective.
"Moreover, how many off the grid people would be able to handle some Detroit plant workers showing up?"
Like I said above...I won't let them take me down easily. Bring them on :)
Hairball, your mouth is moving faster than your brain. If you're shooting people to keep them away from your stuff, you might as well stick the gun in your mouth and pull the trigger cause its game over and you're just delaying the inevitable. How long can you sustain yourself...and your family....and their family...and their friends??? Sorry, there is no off the grid for this scenario. If society collapses like that, it's up to God to sort it out.
Valuable protein source.
HTH.
Think real hard for a moment.
http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=59
Have you ever stopped to think that you may end up being the weak link when the Detroit plant workers show up? At least you will have your arrogance to fall back on if every thing goes to Hell. Pathetic.
And let's not forget that a very small garden of quality heirloom tobacco, air-cured and packaged in little bags, will give you a lot of local bartering power - plus some fine smoke for those evenings listening to the Elk bugling away in the high meadows. ( Where I live it's the Wild turkeys that offer an evening chorus). Plus you can legally make enough alcohol to keep youself all toasty on those cold winter nights. And a little smokehouse will take those bull trout from the summer and make them available for some fine snacking off season, along with the occasional bit of Elk jerky. And not everybody needs companionship, especially considering the price tag most of it comes with these days. So all in all, while his lifestyle is not for everyone, I would say that this guy probably could give a shit about all the snide remarks on this forum as well as the types who make them. In fact those clever, witty remarks probably belong to just the kind of people he moved to Montana to get far far away from. Good for him!
upvote for noting that "not everybody needs companionship" - the solitary, contemplative life suits some well. . .
and for anyone else who appreciates the evocative heirloom tobacco story above, this guy is a valuable resource:
http://www.cultivatorshandbook.com/cultivators/Tobacco_Handbook.html
peace.
If you are off the grid how am I reading this? Not to be nit-picky or anything.
Here is the way the rest of America lives off the grid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXaJKeYGzDU
Montana land bordering a wilderness area has got to sell for at least $10,000 per acre. FAR out of reach for most. I haven't had a cell phone in over three years and no TV since 1987. I have the skills necessary live off of the grid, but can't possibly afford the land.
I'm letting the Scheben character improve mine until I'm ready. ;)
can't possibly afford the land...
This is an interesting comment. It presupposes the existance of personal property rights and an over riding governing entity able to enforce them.
These are the exact rights trampled on in the recent Linda Green scandals, yet are now being called on to provide legitimacy to some "purchase" agreement.
Something's wrong with this picture folks.
mining claim. 40 acres
I know there is plenty of land in Arkansas, which is wilderness for the most part for $1,000 an acre or less. You need at least 10 acres to use a outdoor toilet. I'm sure many other states in the South are the same.
if you ever decide you're serious about living off land, you might consider these good folks - it's not HUGE parcels, it's not pristine wilderness, but it IS affordable to anyone, and I mean anyone - many people just bought in as investments, as you can also trade parcels or sell off - they started as a small family business, not sure how things have progressed, but they're still around, have a look:
http://ozarkland.com/
"Finally, when Rich noticed troubling health difficulties creeping up on him, a fateful doctor’s visit revealed severe damage in his spinal column. The company immediately found out, and sidelined him."
That's the sentence that grabbed me. You can slavishly devote your loyalty to a company, give your all, then get your loyalty paid back with boot in the ass. "Thanks for all your great efforts Jim, now please follow security to your car."
I've seen many, who knock themselves out for a corporation and NEVER get back what they put in. That's a good deal?
As far as living off the grid, it's a great for those who have self control and can meter their spending. I suppose most Americans can't get off the spending addiction though, they just don't any other way to enjoy life.
Bingo! I can't give you enough green arrows.
nine out of ten? try ninety-nine out of a hundred. and that's being generous.
I am mostly off grid, though PG&E well just the E part makes it to my property. I am the very end. I wonder what the guy uses for heat. I see fir and/or pine in the pictures. Not much energy in them. I've got plenty of oak and madrone. Barack gave me some Barack bucks recently and now I have broadband satellte. Up to 12mbps down. (see wilde blue us recovery act)
How it would end:
solar cells will pass away in 20 years, which is ok, I do not really need them.
wood for heat will last forever if I can keep up with cutting and splitting. Need to add one teenage male. when teenage male runs out, wood runs out about 2 years later.
2 wells (electric and manual well heads), 2 cisterns, 8 to 10 month flowing surface water. lots of storage. should last forever or until poisened by fukushima radiation.
Water treatment will last about 10 years. If I switch to rain capture I could skip water treatment.
Food (vegies/animals) should last forever unless the sun goes out.
Holding off the wild hordes. Not long I am afraid.
medical troubles? Lots of vets around, but antibiotics? Only good for a year in the fridge.
Satellite you say? You launched that from your back acre, right?
so we should just not even try to moderate our lifestyles or be at all prepped? You recommend I plan on eating all my meals in restaurants because the shovel my garden needs was manufactured somewhere and I don't till the earth with a stick and plant only wild gathered seeds? Who's the real pendejo here?
The ostrichs can't hear with sand in their ears.
Check the avatar -- he don't even HAVE any ears!
LOL
no, I am just laughing at all the people who are prepped with all this ON GRID shit.
It's like you people think society is going to collapse but you will be living like omega man. Get over it
Folks think they're prepped; they're not. Shit goes sideways and montana man can get his property seized by The Party.
This is why I tell all you folks to watch Dr. Zhivago, besides the fact that it's a great movie. Just watch it. The doc had a city home and a country farm too.
"If you are not reliant on unstable social systems for day to day needs, then you will be destroyed exactly as quickly as those reliant on unstable social systems for day to day needs."
So sayth the mighty Trav.
Tis true - plus this OFF THE GRID shit just makes me tired thinking about it - no fun there.
as I recall... all the fighting was in Yuriatin... Varichyno was only vistied ONCE by the party (when it was reported that Strelnikov was on his way there to find Lara)...
Yeah... They'd have done MUCH better in Moscow...
That's exactly the way I see it, mate.
These preps are not about infinite sustainability ... that's a city argument.
The preps, for me anyways, are to ease the transition from JIT living to, as Trav calls it, Paleolithic living.
I'm fairly certain, though, that I can manage far better than a Paleolithic lifestyle.
We will NOT have the same population as now due to the transitional period which is going to cost us a LARGE percentage of our current overpopulation. Those that are left WILL have to live at whatever lifestyle they can maintain.
Preparations, now, are just transition easers.
My point of view is : Food preps are to get you past the Primary situation ... riots, etc. Power gen, such as solar, for my ebook, etc is to ease you through the secondary and make life a little easier for a little longer.
Trav seems to be worried that he will not be able to maintain his current lifestyle?????
Well ... DUH!!!
Nice.
I agree that one should not go to Montana in order to start living within his/her means.
A simple thing, instead of using a refrigerator, get a chest freezer and modify it ( a light electrical work ) to work as a refrigerator.
You immediately have 90% power savings of your refrigerator electrical power consumption and this is simply by not working against Gravity, how cool is that.
If interested google - convert chest freezer as a refrigerator.
but the compressor that was designed to run at freezer temps may burned out 90% faster.
great info thanks!
I get my R134 off the grid
Almost all freezers have a factory set screw that exists somewhere on the thermostat that allows you to adjust the range the user set thermostat works in. I've converted several freezers to kegerators doing this and I know one is still running 8 years later. And no, the compressors do NOT burn up. They do what they are intended to do, cool... For something really 'cool', look up a solar-ammonia freezer/ice maker.
Where do you plug in your iPhone?
The Wall? Solar FTW, or generators, or hydro, wind, etc...
your ass... the connection is waaaaaaay up there... so keep pushing...
You might find the book "Lucifer's Hammer" interesting.
That book kicked ass...
If you liked that, read Deep Winter Trilogy...
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2012/02/nadler-and-fein-america...
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Nadler and Fein: "America's Lawless Empire"
.
comment: you cannot run from this. imo
Seems like the more the Government tries to impose control over the Citizens, the more the Citizens try to live without the Government.
Seems like the more the Government tries to impose control over the Citizens, the more the Citizens try to live without the Government.
Before moving to rural America you might want to consider the availabilty of heath care, including the distance to the nearest medical facilty. It is a big plus to have a marketable skill and/or substantial savings. The locals will more than likely be suspicious and distrustful of you, especially if you come from the city. So either be very likable or like being alone. Consider the crime rate in the county you want to live in -- check the DoJ violent crime stats.
An ounce of prevention ....
consider the availabilty of heath care, including the distance to the nearest medical facilty...
I heard of a retired police chief retiring to the islands until he found out the only heart specialist available to assist him with his condition was someone he'd had a run in with. He was back to the mainland pronto.
In reference to this particular person in Montana and his chosen method of existing "off the grid", the author was quite open about stating this guy had access to and was willing to use whatever technology is and will be available to him to let him live out his remaining time as conveniently and easily as practical. Technology is a wonderfoul thing but the way I see it, centrally planned administration of its benefits is a battle worth engaing in and ultimately overcoming.
jmo.
Problem with Montana is that except for "hot money" coming in from pharmaceutical reps, and California Hollywood types, there are no jobs.
Article says there are a lot of potential savings if you go off-grid, which is true, assuming that you have the capital to invest to buy the place, build the solar array, and make it the way you want.
Since most people in the US live a paycheck-to-paycheck existence, courtesy of the Federal Reserve system, which devalues the dollar, there is no way they will be able to afford to make the move to a self-sufficient homestead like that.
Exactly right. I have a friend who used to live in Flathead Valley and did river guiding. He got pushed out by the beautiful people. Bought 20 acres on a mountain about 25 miles outside of Medford, Oregon. Off-grid, went to Blackbird in Medford for supplies. Crack heads, Bureau of Land Management pushed him out of there. He said Alaska was uber-regulated anymore. But it's beautiful country.
By the way, he always had a woman out there. Some ladies like it.
Some ladies like it...
That big black Papier-mâché bird always gave me the willies, but the kids liked it. Personally, I prefered Bi-Mart, Fred Meyer and Dick's.
As for “some ladies”, it only takes one.
Jmo.
You can get anything in Blackbird. http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/1054 I do remember him saying that he and his woman would make the rounds to those stores before heading back into the mountains.
That's a problem for those who live beyond their means.
This is a phony "life-style". It depends on their being a functioning society actually producing things he needs. It not phony that the society is needed; the phoniness is in pretending it doesn't. We are so close to losing civilization as a whole, and maybe the human species.
Going primitive is just that a primitive, back-looking, losing proposition. Civilization must be saved, by expanded it at the fastest possible rate. WE need challenges worthy of ourselves.
A billion people living people, about 5 percent of mankind, living off planet by 2112 is about right. We lack only the most necessary element; the will.
So eight million '212ers' become one billion off-planet '2112ers' a century hence, after New York sinks beneath the waves?
New York sinks beneath the waves...
So, Mr. Gore, should I instruct my posterity to invest in Arizona or Upstate NY coastal real estate?
Nice article. For the last three years I have been constructing a totally off-grid home in Costa Rica. With hard work, some luck and a bit more money I should finish it later this year. My goal is to become as self-sufficient as possible and teach my children what real life can be versus the mind-numbing brainwashing that most people mistake for reality.
You don't need to be a millionaire to begin a new life, nor a caveman to live off-grid. Dreams followed by education followed by effort. Results may not be immediate but it's pretty simple once you get off your couch.
A buddy of mine was so certain that Costa Rico was the way to go that he took an early out pension 20 years without medical (thinking the cost of living was so cheap down there) fucked around and caught something down in the swamps and came home and dropped dead a few months later (no medical ins.) Be careful down there in the tropics those peeps have immunities that we don't have up here in the north.
Thanks for your thoughts. Sorry about your buddy. I've lived in Costa Rica for more than 20 years. The vast majority who relocate here (anywhere for that matter) don't do enough research beforehand and won't make it or be happy once the honeymoon period is over. Moving abroad is not a good choice for most. In my case, I miss the states but do not regret my decision, especially each time I come back and am reminded of just how much freedom has been lost/surrendered by my fellow Americans.
FYI the cost of living here is not so cheap although medical care is and food is unless you like imported goodies.
Given the ( IMHO) mindless concern on the part of Americans regarding the availability of medical 'care" I want to recommend "Operations Manual For Humankind - The Complete Compendium of Natural Health" by Patrick Robinson. This is one of the best-researched and best-written books I've read on intelligent, natural ways to maintain your health if you still have it, and to recover your health if you're losing it. Whether you are living in a remote part of the world or in the midst of one of its great cities, this book offers a wealth of useful information on how to ensure that your quality of life is never compromised by poor health that can be prevented by simple, natural means. Reading this book was on a par, for me, of my first discovery of the writings of Adell Davis. It is that excellent.
Robinson is articulate, personable, funny and informative. His perspective obviously comes from life-long thoughtful research as well as extensive personal experience, and the author is persuasive without being pedantic, thorough without being long-winded, and light-hearted without trivializing the serious matters he discusses. Reading this book is like having a caring grandfather who has seen it all home in on exactly what you need to know to deal with life's exigencies.
The orientation of the book is toward natural and simple steps anyone can take to ensure that their lives are long, healthy and productive, from being aware of the consequences of poor diet to being smart about your choice of medical treatment when needed. While Robinson is strongly in favor of Naturopathic medicine and its many and diverse life-lessons, he does not dismiss the essential role of allopathic, or 'Western' conventional medicine when it is appropriate.
Just as anyone buying a car or a washing machine needs an operators manual to ensure that they use it properly and get maximum value from their investment, the "Operations Manual For Humankind" should be issued with every newborn child, and would also make a thoughtful and invaluable gift for any young couple starting life together. More than any other reason for buying and reading this fine book, however, is that no matter how informed and enlightened one is, this book will prove to be full of new ideas and new perspectives on how to get the most out of this miracle of life that we are all given no matter what challenges we face in the living of it.
This is an inexpensive Kindle book, that can also be read on any computer and most other devices with a free app available from Amazon.
To view and order this book:
www.amazon.com/Operations-Manual-Humanki...743&sr=1-1-fkmr0
To download free apps for reading on non-Kindle machines:
www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1000493771
And no, I am not the author, but I am a huge fan of this gentleman who, now in his 80's, took his health into his own hands, moved to a small town in the Andes, and lives a peaceful, healthy live completely without regard to medical "care".
A few pointed criticisms...
a. No way he can defend that castle when someone decides they want it unless he has a bunch of friends he's inviting up for the duration. Then he'd better start a couple of new greenhouses...
b. Square footage is enormous for heating needs during 9 months of winter. Perhaps he missed the part of MT history where 'need' was considered one room - teepee, cabin, cave or otherwise. Fuel is imperative.
c. Do you really think there will be any bull trout in that stream once TSHTF? Or perhaps he's the only guy in MT who can fish...
d. The elk. Yeah, pretty much without a mass extinction event among the MT population, there will not be any easy elk, deer, or beef unless it can be defended. Or maybe he's the only guy in MT who knows how to hunt.
I'd post a photo I took last year in a Bolivian survival setting, but I'm apparently not cool enough for TD to let me in on that kind of power.
It's hard to find a big site that does not allow you to post a pic. I'd like to know how these guys do it here.
Only those with contributor status can post images.
Since the board is almost totally unmoderated, it is for the good of all.
thankx
a) Meet your neighbors, block the road, don't have anything worth risking death and wasting 30 miles of truck driving worth of fuel to steal.
b) Probably. Lotta trees there though. I've got a 1400sq ft house where it snows, granted its not montana, but at night you just seal off one room and heat that, not too bad.
c) If its on his own private property, probably. Remember those greenhouses. I doubt the guy is living off one supply of food (see D)
d) See c. Given the choice of robbing fellow city dwellers who probably don't have guns for groceries vs driving 30+ miles out into the middle of nowhere and risking getting shot by armed, practiced rednecks while hunting (when most people have no idea how)...
b. Square footage is enormous for heating needs during 9 months of winter. Perhaps he missed the part of MT history where 'need' was considered one room - teepee, cabin, cave or otherwise. Fuel is imperative.
The big difference is that we now have INSULATION! quadruple pane windows, silicon sealant, R28 the walls, R40 the ceiling. Of course, looking at that guy;s place in the picture, he probably has massive vaulted ceilings and no insulation beyond the wood itself, unless he has the hollow logs with fibreglass insulation inside them.
Marry a mountain girl, they don't complain. Mine don't anyway and she knows how to pluck a chicken if she has to. Yes, I have it made.
Buying em a set of teeth is kind of expensive though...
Race The Power Of An Illusion
http://www.ovguide.com/tv/race_the_power_of_an_illusion.htm
.
transcript pt.1
http://newsreel.org/transcripts/race1.htm
.
Tuesday February 14 3:00pm
Public Affairs
http://archive.wbai.org/
Yeah that's right America. Get back to frontier living. chop some wood, grow some cannabis, lay some fucking pipe! Whatever you do don't turn in to a dependent welfare state or get involved in wars you have no business in. Don't defraud honest folks or reward the upper class for mistakes. Protect the liberties of the people and have faith in your creator that gave these rights to you. Do not elect cocksuckers into office. Provide a trial by jury for criminals and never resort to assinations or other lawlessness. Be a righteous nation so others see your good deeds and change their ways. America can you do all these things?? 'Cause you're not doing them now.
"...grow some cannabis ..."
http://i55.tinypic.com/nvuop1.jpg
... and then have some black bears to guard it.
http://media.komonews.com/images/100818_bears_near_pot_field.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/weblama/1370979064/
Nice crop Pierre, send GPS coordinates.
Squint real hard and you can see it.
Don't tell anyone else about this place...Cocksucker!
http://www.shuswaplakephotos.ca/assets/salmon_arm.jpg
Today... Four former B.C. attorneys-general called for the legalization of cannabis.
"It's just time - 77 per cent of Canadians are telling us it's time to change the law. The case demonstrating the failure and harms of marijuana prohibition is airtight."
Looks idyllic enough, but hacking through ice and snow for 7 months of the year and eating nothing but meat will get old if you make it to 75, which on that diet you probably wont.
Well, this thread is quite an amusing display of the most rabid case of sour grapes I have ever seen. The strawmen that some of you build up to tear down so you can feel smug about yourselves are pretty amazing.
My favorite is "OH they'll be sorry when the zombie hoards come!!" Yeah, because sitting there in your suburban nightmare home is going to be so much better.
Reminds me of ostrichs with their heads in the sand saying "Why is that guy running around, hes just going to attract predators".
REad some history. The people that survived the best in the great depression, weimar germany, the dark ages, WW2 Europe, etc weren't the city people that spent their lives dependant on a highly fragile set of support systems. Thems just the facts. Sorry.
Hey, guess what genius. While you're in the rat race, breathing dirty air filled with the dust of a million car tires, paying ball-breaking bills to utility companies, and bolting bars over your windows like youre in a prison (ahem) that guy is living the good life. And you know what is going to happen to him? Probably NOTHING. Yep you'll probably both go to the grave without "it" ever happening to you.
Also, I have to LOL at sour grapes V 2.0; "they're cheating because they aren't adhering to my purist standards of what off the grid means". Based on what? Your copious experience in the field? So what if his ATV uses gas? Hes eating fresh, clean healthy food. Hes not paying a power bill. That trout fishing thing looked pretty good didnt it. But yeah, hes doing it wrong, and you've got it right, right?
Face it. That guy is going to go right on living the life that you call "Vacation", and hes not going to have some big catastrophy that vindicates you never getting off your habituated, enslaved ass to change your own life for the better.
Oh well, guess its easier to tear someone else down than to build yourself up. Eh?
Oh, one last thing... "If you don't like it, you can't have any."
+1
It's a nice cabin, Montana is beautiful, and you'd be a hell of a lot more insulated from SHTF than if you were in town somewhere.
well, I'm not exactly living in a place that nice. And I'm in the mountains of Ca, but its pretty good, and its Mine, and we can do whatever the hell we want here. Beats having a homeowners association, thats for damn sure.
You got that right. Thirty four years in the Appalachian Mts here. One of my favorite things is walking out in the woods to take a piss. Saves a flush, y'all... and it's MY woods.
My thoughts exactly! A bunch of smug, judgemental, negative bastards tonight! Thanks for posting!
I don't think that I would be happy living like that. I will continue accumulating gold, and let other people do the hard work for me.
by all means accumulate physical but if things go "Bosnian" booze, lighters and a wood stove will buy you a lot more survival time (according to a bosnian's survival blog)
Yo Tyler,
Get this yahoo to publish some numbers!
1-I don't see any solar panels on the south roof;
2-That out house m/b real nice, first thing in the morning;
3-Talk about living there in July, when all the wood cutting and planting is done. Winter starts in late August!
4- Talk about living there in January and your wife/sig_other has been shivering for the last 6 weeks.
Finally, share what you been smokin. Could really perk up a Suburban Party!!!!
Off the grid doesn't mean turning into a luddite, people. It just means that your basic sustenance and shelter can be provided for using the basic resources you have at hand. I rather doubt most survivalists have access to iron mines and smelters needed to make the steel that goes into their axe head or what have you, but they are still off the grid because they can feed themselves and provide an adequate shelter. Off the Grid living focuses on treating electricity and petroleum fueled items as conveniences. An off the grid family might use a cell phone to communicate because it's easy, but won't depend upon it in order to communicate at all. Same with using cars and ATVs, laptops etc. Convenience vs dependency.
I looked into solar heat and power for my residence, and once I got down to the economics of it, spending about $50K for the system installed, it just did not pan out.
The system I looked into for heat and power would break even in about 20 years, for ROI. Then, the kicker, the solar panels have a roughly 20-25 year life span.
Another draw back to the solar power system that was being offered is that it IS tied into the grid, and if the power goes down, so do I, for it is set up to shut down without the push back in the system from the local grid.
Of course, there are transfer switches, and ways around that with batteries, but again, the batteries have a finite life span as well.
There is no ROI on any of this. It cannot ever be about the investment or the savings. It's just not there at all and never will be.
It is about something else entirely.
It is about continuity. You think all this will last forever. It will not last forever, it will not last your own lifetime. It will last a little while more just as it is and you'll pay a little more maybe over time, then it will start to fail and cost a lot more to boot, then it will become unreliable at any price, then it will evaporate and never return ever not evar.
That is the shape of things to come. It will come slowly at first, then it will rush in all at once.
Where are you looking? Sunelec.com has panels starting at $0.88/watt, and systems (excluding batteries) for less than $3/watt. Those panels come with 25 year warrenties for the most part.
The thing that most people miss when evaluating solar is that the panels are relatively cheap - its the storage that's so expensive. So, duh. Use the solar when the sun shines and then, at night, when you don't really need a lot of electricity anyway and when the rates are lowest, use the grid. Do the math and see what happens.
Freaking dream house. Just needs twin .50's mounted on turret near the peak of the roof!
He must be suspected by DHS in at minimum 11 cases.
Been "Going Galt" the last 3 years. Almost ready for TEOTWAWKI! ALMOST!
No mention of a bankster mortgage or MERS involved transfer of titles, hopefully non-existant.
That house is absurdly big - it would function as a walkers (30) refuge in Europe.
We are pack animals of 100 to 150 unit size ............. most lone wolfs are not effective.
It requires too much energy via individual capital / time inputs - his capital inputs are a legacy of the Industrial age.
Nice place to retire though - I wish him well.
Its a classic, POS, kit log home. Avoid them at all costs, they rot out in no time.
To build a real log home, visit: http://www.loghomebuilders.org/
Nothing more comfortable to live in than a 36" diameter log home...
That's me in 5 years, Freedom at 55 on the BC Idaho Montana border.
This is the type of lifestyle I anticipate in the aftermath of disaster. For now, I'm content with the city living. When it comes time to do this, I'll do it. For now, however, I'll enjoy the creature comforts. Cheers!
Patriots like Rich are sure to be the first to serve as "examples" when the FEMA/DHS/NATO lock downs begin.
Enjoy your bull trout while you can Sir, for your ass belongs to the fucking state.
This is not "off the grid" in the least. This is a city man's conception of what it means to live "off the grid."
Someone mentioned the unibomber's cabin...who'd of guessed that they moved it to a museum in Washington DC?
Slideshow:
http://www.npr.org/programs/totn/features/2008/06/unabomber_gallery/inde...
And sadly for many so terrifying they won’t even try, not even for a moment. My take away from this article is that any step in the direction Rich Scheben has gone can be rewarding and enlightening. You don’t have to join and run with a wolf pack to experience living outside of the virtual, artificial world. I’ve been experimenting lately with denying myself access to T.V., the internet, and other media for a full day each week (the toughest to give up is ZH). It’s too early to assess the results, but, just like Richard Dreyfus in the movie Close Encounters Of The Third Kind, I keep repeating over and over to myself, “This means something”.
I'd love to do it. My wife and 2 small children? probably not.
If you're serious about going off the grid, don't make the mistake of writing about it, taking pictures and posting it on the web. Nor do you rationalize that technology's okay because, well gosh, I can't give up my iCrap. This guy's playing a game. Heaven help him if the system breaks down. He's got a week, tops.
Wanna know how to survive? Make yourself invisible, that's how. Start with JJ Luna. Go from there. The answers are out there, but pretending that you're going to survive Armageddon living like a king while the rest of the world unravels is a pipe dream.
He sounds like he is having a wonderful life off the grid, but Agenda 21 is going to be getting right in his face before too long.
Man them fuckers are always up to something. Thanks a lot.
The science fiction author Robert Heinlein once said "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
Combine the best of both worlds Bitchez !!! Why the fuck not ??? Its what I do...
Living off the grid, Mississippi (well, this is shot in Texas, but you get the point) style ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUtBOHvMNX8
Weird. There are no chemtrails in the sky behind the awesome cabin.