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Guest Post: Hong Kong - Still The Cheapest Place To Buy Gold Coins
Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man
Hong Kong: Still The Cheapest Place To Buy Gold Coins
Still a bit bleary eyed from last night’s 12-hour flight from Johannesburg, I decided to walk off the jet lag this afternoon by taking a stroll down Queen’s Road in Hong Kong’s Central district.
If you’ve never been, the streets are lined with banks (and shopping malls), meaning there’s no shortage of places to buy gold. It’s commonplace in Hong Kong for banks to sell gold (same in Singapore, Austria, and many other countries), but what I continually notice here is that premiums over spot are among the lowest in the world.
Now, bear in mind that I just came from South Africa… perhaps the ‘goldest’ of the gold producing nations. I was hard pressed to find too many credible retail outlets in Johannesburg and Cape Town with Krugerrands selling gold for less than an 8% to 10% premium over spot.
Today in Hong Kong at the Bank of China main branch on Queen’s Road, I bought an ‘unsealed’ Maple Leaf (i.e. loose coin) for just 0.5% over spot; I also purchased a ‘sealed’ Maple Leaf (i.e. collector-ready) for an additional $60, or about 4.5% over spot.
The 'sealed' Maple Leaf I purchased at 4.5% over spot; the unsealed go for 0.5%.
This iHKD.s an image of the gold prices that Bank of China was buying and selling at this afternoon. The gold price at the time was about 12,980
Funny thing, it wasn’t even the best price in town. You can buy gold for as low as 0.2% over spot (practically a rounding error) in Hong Kong. Unfortunately, just about every bank was out of stock.
This is a special holiday week they call ‘Golden Week’; it’s one of those manufactured holidays that the government uses to encourage domestic consumption. Given the name, a lot of people traditionally scoop up gold bullion… they apparently think it’s lucky to buy gold during Golden Week. Go figure.
Needless to say, the banks start running out of stock and the premiums go up; if I had timed my visit a bit better, I could have gotten a better deal. Such is life.
Now, let’s be clear about something– I didn’t buy this gold as a speculation. I’m not constantly refreshing my screen so that I can run back down to the bank and make a quick profit. You don’t buy something that’s appreciated 10-years in a row and has increased 7-fold in the same period as a speculation.
If you want to speculate, buy ridiculously cheap assets that people hate. Buy things so that people will think you’re crazy for wasting your time… they’ll even get angry. Then let it sit for 5 to 10 years.
Gold isn’t really in that category anymore. Your friends and family probably won’t hold a group intervention session to stop you from buying a few ounces. Gold is not hated… by -most- people.
You know, on my flight to Hong Kong last night, I read an article in the FT entitled “Gold bugs beware– the bubble is finally bursting.” As you could imagine, the article goes on to say that gold’s $300 drop in the last month portends the end of a decade-long bull market in gold.
What a completely naive position. Amazingly enough, the author is a university professor who is responsible for shaping the minds of future business leaders. This fact alone is evidence that gold is not in a bubble.
Look, it’s extremely unlikely, almost impossible that gold could continue to go up year after year after year, as it has over the past decade. Nothing goes up (or down) in a straight line. But gold’s long-term strength is in its value as a currency alternative, not a speculation.
Gold remains one of the only true anti-currencies out there. The concept of a ‘print-at-will’ fiat currency is garbage… and in a way, the world owes a debt of gratitude to Ben Bernanke and the Eurozone for making this point abundantly clear to anyone who is paying attention.
As more people wake up to the unfolding disaster and watch their worthless paper currencies be reduced to British Thermal Units, the long-term prospects of gold make sense; for the foreseeable future, there are simply no liquid, internationally recognized, traditional, politically benign alternatives to paper.
So if you’re out there in the world, consider stopping by Hong Kong to pick up as much gold as you can; the premium savings alone may offset the cost of your trip. And, if you’re a creative, enterprising individual, consider coming to Hong Kong to buy gold for others (at a profit, of course). Start a trend– become the world’s first ‘gold mule’.
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Do you just travel to strange locations to collect gold coins and rare sexually transmitted diseases?
Sorry - off-topic. To back up all those stories about physical demand being high, there is a Notice on the Bullionvault website today labelled 'prices and liquidity warning' - it says that they are waiting for a substantial
shipment tomorrow ( presumably bought on the London spot market) and due to unusually high demand margins (from sellers other than Bullionvault themselves) may be higher than normal until that shipment arrives.
Tired of no change? Buy your change damit!
100$ per per person... empties all the change in the country!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Mint_coin_production
-100$ brick of nickels.... 97$!~
-100$ brick of pennies... 50$! (thats for the zinc ones, 200$ for copper!)
http://www.coinflation.com/coins/basemetal_coin_calculator.html
Want real change? Buy some fucking change then and spread the word.
Gene, you have been to the Dusk til Dawn also.
Anyone have any thoughts on the "sealed" vs. "unsealed" thing? I've never thought about it until seeing that price list.
Is "unsealed" a particularly bad idea? Seems like "re-sealing" would be a pretty simple affair for anyone actually wanting to rip you off...
A sovereign round is a sovereign round no matter what you wrap it in. Sovereign coins are bullion and need not be sealed (if they are in good condition) as they are already easily recognizable. No one "collects" bullion in the numismatic community.
As far as being "re-sealed" it is not as easy as you would think because the Royal Canadian Mint puts an imprint on the seams of the plastic (in between each coin). Again, it doesn't matter for bullion and no one would take the time to do this as it SHOULD not command a premium if unsealed.
The only time that a seal matters is if it is a numismatic coin that has been assayed OR if it is a gold bullion bar. Pamp Suisse art bars are my favorite and they are individually sealed, numbered, and assayed. You will pay less when buying "loose" precious metal art bars.
Buying gold coins on the streets in China? Of course it's sealed!
It's actually foil around some chocolate. Enjoy that $1600 milk chocolate delight!
And if you're feeling really saucy, pick up a $100 iPad while you're at it.... =P
a bank is a bank. especially in HK.
BOC > BOA :-)
Simon,
For a dude that gets around, your a gullible sob.................$65.00 for a regular Mape,over a 0.5 over , on the same coin?
Dude,if it was a Proof Coin I could see it.
Mapes are mapes,it's obvious that coin was not sealed in Canada.
Oh, well...............your loaded guess it makes zero diff.
Around the US, if you can get it inder 4-5% prem, you have a Coup d' etat.
A week ago, I bought gold (Eagles) for a bit over 5% premium (coin shop).
Today:
eBay / 24hgold widget Gold Eagle premium over spot: 26%
APMEX Gold Eagle price: $1721, premium over spot: 6.6%
eBay / 24hgold widget premium Silver Eagle over spot: 81%
---
No one wants to let their physical go cheap it seems...
.
I can get Gold maples from my local dealer $42 over spot. ie 2.6%
Yes, except for the gold coins.
If it is "out-of-stock" you can't buy it at that price. Basic economics!
yawn. next you gonna tell about your junk shopping at Aberdeen? how you can get a fake adidas t-shirt for less than retail.
His next post will be about the anal cleanse he got in Wan Chai.
Simon's a con artist. He wrote a paper once on "network infiltration" -- or 'how to bullshit your way into any crowd in another country'. Now would you take financial advice from a guy who wrote that?
Guess he already wrote that piece about his anal cleanse...
Care to post the paper?
He has a good message, but that doesn't mean he's not a scam artist, just like those guys that made all those slick videos, but were running pump and dump schemes on the side (using the goodwil they bought with their excellent videos).
It's tucked away on his website. Can't link it from the ol' work computer but if you're still looking I'll link it in a few hours. I actually found that piece a little interesting, in an entertaining kind of way. Every time I read Simon, I can't help thinking that I'm reading about Michael Westin from Burn Notice - campy, over the top, unrealistic, but fun. This world-wide coin checking-out spree has got me baffled though. Doesn't he have a "local supplier?"
This should take you right to it Tmos:
http://sovereignman.com/Network%20Infiltration.pdf
This is the page it comes from:
http://www.sovereignman.com/lifestyle-design/network-infiltration/
ME LIKE SHINY METAL! ME REALLY LIKE SHINY METAL!
LOOK HOW SHINY IT IS!
HOW MUCH SHINY METAL YOU HAVE? I HAVE MORE SHINY METAL THAN YOU!
I DIG HOLE IN BACK YARD TO HIDE MY SHINY METAL!
SHINY METAL FROM GOD! SHINY METAL MAGIC!
PAPER FOR STUPID MONKEY! SHINY METAL FOR SMART MONKEY!
ME WORTHLESS TROLL
ME SAY THINGS AND THINK THINGS FED WANTS ME TO THINK
ME THINK ME VERRRRRRRY CLEVER!
ME TROLL. ME HAVE NO FRIENDS IN REAL LIFE SO ME SURF INTERNET TO HAVE HUMAN INTERACTION. ME HASN'T BEEN LAID SINCE ME WAS 27 AND SHE WEIGHED 300 POUNDS.
Yes, but she was a statuesque 12 footer.
Paper good, paper make good fire. Paper keep porch monkey warm and back side clean from poopie. Paper goooood!
People hate gold because they missed the first leg up and have to tell themselves that there will now be a leg down to feel better about missing the first up move. Feedback can be a bitch. So is jealousy. Life is not, life is a beautiful goddess with long strands of golden hair.
Me love life. Me hold no judgement. Me stupid monkie. Me like being stupid monkie. Make life simple.
How wrong you are. It's the gold monkeys who are misguided lemmings.
Gold is the subprime mortgage of this decade.
Cry more.
This is a guy who was calling for sub $1000 gold last summer and was warning people against buying a $17 dip.
A great experiment to do is to hold a gold coin in front of a baby, and hold up some tungsten or some other look alike. The baby's eyes will always light up and focus solely on the gold. Even babies know how rare gold is, which I think we could say would make gold inherently valued.
It works for diamonds too but the baby has to be a female!
I grew up living next to one of the most prominant gold investors in the world. I was always interested in his rock collection he had in his yard and so I started my own. I would look for quartz wherever I could find them. I remember he was over for a dinner party and gave me 'fool's gold' to add to my collection. I said it looked like gold. He said it wasn't, it was just tungsten, and this is why it was called fool's gold, because some people have trouble telling the difference.
Fool's Gold is pyrite, no? Pyrite is a mineral, not even a metal.
Tungsten is a hard dark grey metal I think, that just happens to almost exactly as dense as gold.
Correct. Good catch.
Noticed that myself, though I'm not one of the most prominent gold investors in the world. Nobody would ever mistake a piece of pyrite for a piece of bullion (pyrite in natural form is far more interesting looking than gold), but in situ, when the gold is not pure, a mistake could be made, especially if it is just trace amounts.
im actually trying to corner the tungsten market. my first stop is simon blacks casa........
Ok, I'll try, but if he swallows my gold, well, I gotta do what I gotta do.
Go diaper diving?
Why hello there liar boy.
RnR is so mad he broke his caps lock key.
I give your article an A plus as it is on the scene.
Buyers around the world need real info like this.
So Munchanesen, where you headed next? I hear talk of a pawn shop in DickSmack, Nebraska that's offering .175 over spot.
Yes, but they are out of stock!
You really wanna trust your serious-looking Chinese dealers getting you the REAL Eagles and Maples? Good luck, dude. I've heard enough stories already.
The Chinese hawk a lot of fake stuff, but all you have to do is go to where they sell the government sealed real thing. Gold, silk or anything else. I would trust it more than in the western world. And you get to keep it. That's why so many Chinese are rich. And westerners are poor today.
Bullshit. Take a hard look at the stuff you got from the OFFICIAL place instead with some scientific instruments. Some Chinese are richer because they fuck and exploit their fellow citizens like there is no tomorrow. How about getting some Foxconn slaves to make you filthy rich?
Understand your reluctance to purchase from an independent dealer in HK, but didn't SB make his purchase directly from the Bank of China?
I'm pretty sure the tungsten stories have to be an urban myth.
A quick test you could do would be to have a real gold coin with you and drop each on a hard surface like stone or tile. Tungsten has a much higher stiffness modulus and would make a decidely different sound and would bounce around much more.
And you always have to be on the lookout.
This is fresh on my mind because just last week I made a purchase and among the numerous coins i had a very obviously fake one. The color was off, the feel was off, and it had no ring at all, just a dull thud. Took it back the next business day and the folks were shocked that such a thing could have gotten past them. I got some asscovering talk about how they inspect every coin etc, theyll pass it to their experts to investigate, but, they also gave me a good one immediately.
From now on i think i'll check them all at the counter as i'm buying, instead of waiting til i get home.
enjoy the tight spreads in HK, for a retail customer in europe the spreads are awful even if you're dealing in the six digits. In the states at least you have tulving and a zillion small private shops that move bullion in a competetive market. europe is one big cartel.
know the coins you're dealing with, study them well, and check them carefully, even if it's a reputable dealer.
...tight spreads in HK....
Isn't any big deal to bring along the "fisch" when buying coins.
http://www.fisch.co.za/home.htm
The Fisch fails to detect the following fake gold coins:
Subject: counterfeit gold alloy consisting of 51% gold mixed with osmium, iridium, ruthenium, copper, nickel, and rhodium
say hello to a more complex counterfeit gold alloy consisting of 51% gold mixed with osmium, iridium, ruthenium, copper, nickel, and rhodium. The new fake gold apparently not only has a density similar to the real thing but also has a near identical softness and color, qualities that suggest that metal smiths with an extensive knowledge of metallurgy are producing the new fakes. In fact, Haywood Cheung, president of the Chinese Gold & Silver Exchange Society, Hong Kong’s century-old bullion exchange, said goldsmiths and jewelers in Hong Kong had recently been duped into buying between 200 and 2,000 ounces of the new fake gold. ref: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/67dc062c-fe45-11df-abac-00144feab49a.html#axzz17cv0GvSyLink is from December 2010. It worked in Decemebr.
Can't see how you get a mix as soft as gold when all the components are harder and alloying makes a mix that is harder still. Copper and zinc are close. I would think they'd need to put some tin in that to get the right softness and rigidity.
I see a market for a cheap micro-indenter.
Fun with math!
osmium about $400/oz 22.59 gr/cm3
iridium about $450/oz 22.56 gr/cm3
ruthenium about $166/oz 12.45 gr/cm3
rhodium about $1800/oz 12.41 gr/cm3
Copper 8.94 gr/cm3 $0.0066/gr
Nickel 8.9 gr/cm3
Gold $1640/oz 19.3 gr/cm3 51% of the alloy
It would seem you would want to minimize the Rh content since it is more expensive than gold. Let's assume theRh content is 0%. 19.3 = (Y x 22.59 + (1-Y) x 8.9) Y = 10.4 / 13.69 = .75
Alloy cost = .51x$1640 + .49 x (.75 x 400 + .25x.0066x31.1)= $1141/oz savings $500/oz (best case).
reader2010,
You got that right.
Even the Pandas are coming in at under 1oz.
Little bstds short the 1oz coins!!!!!!!,then chg a prem.
To ALL, if your buying Panda's, make the dealer WEIGH them.
Seriously, the chinkos are shorting the coins in gold.
Red arrow the TRUTH all you want dipwad.
The "dealer" here is the PBoC. One can also buy from a host of other banks in HK, including HSBC. Yes, these banks lack the cache of Joe's Gold Shop in Keokuk, Iowa, but I guess that's why they can't demand the big premiums.
I used to be a regular visitor at the gold window at many of these HK banks back in '99 and '00. Didn't see you there. Back then I had to pay a whopping 1% premium, though I did eventually find one source where I only had to pay a dollar over spot rather than the $2.85 or so that was the 1% premium.
A lot of these bars and coins have left my possession during this latter part of gold's run up. Nobody questioned their authenticity.
I miss the sales pitch on the Chilean Galt's Gulch.
Say, Mister Black, where can *I* get more information on your exciting new development?
I was thinking much the same thing. Black much resembles Bonner -- they've both developed quite a knack for smarmy, "self-deprecating" jet-setting, bragging, and name-dropping. Might even have developed quite a little direct-mail style Ponzi scheme of their own. Bleh.
me not doing bad with forecasts of my own ::
http://markettechnicals-jonak.blogspot.com/
"First Gold Mule?"
I think not, people have been smuggling gold across borders for quite some time.
I believe that was said tongue in "cheek".
Perhaps "head in ass"?
If beastiality is your thing go for it. Why you would acknowledge it on a public forum speaks volumes about your asinity.
Looks like Moe Pancho Howard and his ass don't appreciate a little humor.
Beastiality refers to sex with animals.
Not inserting golden objects up your bung.
And is properly spelled Bestiality, genius.
http://www.vegasnews.com/38357/gold-to-go-atm-the-world%E2%80%99s-first-...
tilman fertitta , casino owner and also owner of the ufc, due to his friendship with dana white, and also grandson of old mobsters from galveston, texas, shows off his gold dispensing atm machine....imagine that....i believe the mob is using him to get into legitimate businesses in order to have him launder drug profits.......etc..............in houston, he owns landry's seafood and cadillac bar and grill and the kemah board walk...he is politically connected of course in texas and he puts on this face that he is good for houston.........yeh sure pal....
Hong Kong is also an excellent place to buy 'real' Rolex watches, Luis Vuiton bags, DVD's and Armani suits.
Use the following ancient rule of thumb: one 'real' gold coin should buy you about one 'real' Armani suit. ;-)
Can I use a fake gold coin to buy a fake armani suit? ;-)
Or how about one of them gold coins filled with chocolate for a washable Sears suit?
"Gold Week", come back next week and we will buy it back for 10% less.
I did learn something from this. There are places in the world with a $5 bid/ask spread on a 1oz gold coin. Compare that to kitco's $90 spread for similar item.
Local farm mkt, outside Philly...me: Where do u get ur mkt data for spot gold? Old dude: Kitco Me: Is it accurate Old Dude: Ya, everybody uses it....I walked away
HITMAN56
Kitco's Spot chart is almost accurate.(usually it is off approx $10.00 up or down, close but not exact.)
To get the real deal, is very expensive(the one's that change tit for tat along with REAL TIME SPOT.)
Bro, "almost" doesn't make money trading gold. And not "exact"?? dude, exact is what the game is all about. Thanks for making the last sentence bold, I couldn't see it. Also, thanks for remining me how much my Reuters costs every month. And as for the other mank that jumped in on this convo, Canadians are in bed by 9pm. TD Bank North's website looks like a cartoon. Do this, download the bbg mobile app, its delayed like 15min, so its prob still faster than Crapco, then either get a reuters subscript, or just read ZH, its free.
Putty
Kitco, at least is Canadian.
Try the prems rate on APmex................LORDY.
I'm the baddest-ass gold bug in the world. I fly all over to buy gold coins. I paid 0.5% over spot for this coin in Hong Kong, which if you include the airfare, works out to about 150% over spot. I'm like the goldbug version of James Bond. #Winning
How can Marc Faber, and Jim Rogers, both reputed 'contrarian investors' advise buying gold, when gold ads are on every late night channel, gold shops are opening across the country, gold bullions are on magazine covers, an explosion of gold newsletters, and gold trading is covered by the mainstream media?
As contrarians shouldn't they be selling gold?
An excellent point DormRoom. But profitable contrarians aren't contrarians just for the sake of being contrarians. Timing is required to make a contrarian play. For example, shorting a bull market isn't very smart unless you do it at the right time. Most of the time during a bull market, the public is on the right side of the trade. The public is just starting to join this trade. That doesn't mean it's time to bail, especially with the currency being destroyed.
uhm.. the public has no money to join you. Their house & 401k are underwater. Why would they invest in another perceived risky asset. Most of the demand is from hedgefunds and institutions using gold as a hedge for trading purposes. Once trades are done, or unwound, they'll pull out of gold (GLD & future contracts), and there will be a demand collapse.
Wrong. The biggest demand for gold over the last decade has come from Central Banks, who buy gold in the hundreds of tonnes.
nonsense.
if there is a total market collapse youre gold will not be worth that much in terms of ggoods and services until the goods and services market is stabilized with respect to trading in units of commodoties.
until then the good and services market is built on something far more fundamental than gold. blood sweat and tears.
as others say. load up on seeds, ammo, and friendly neighbors ...that is the real hedge against a doomsday scenario.
The basis for these claims is substantiated on the fact that the future is uncertain, so how can you know how goods will trade in this environment? Historically, gold and precious metal has been a great hedge against doom. Those fleeing war have been able to pay their way to safer places with gold. And if I have ammo, and seeds, and I do not need any more, maybe I will be trading my excess goods for more PM, making it valuable.
Those who have prepared themselves for the collapse will use PM as a way to trade. If you do not have gold or goods, then yes, you will either cry or work.
I think your story is unsubstantiated. I think we need to think about how trade will work. Considering that PM defines monie, and we do not live on an island economy, I think PM will play a huge role in any collapse of the fiat ponzi. Trade will never cease, and thus PM will continue to act as a medium of exchange, because it functions as monie.
Even iron-age peoples valued gold. In fact... even neolithic peoples did.
Unless you think we're all going back to utter barbarism, PMs will retain value.
I hear ads on the radio all the time saying "Be a day trader", "We'll teach you how to buy and sell stocks". So I'm guessing stocks are now in a bubble? Someone please tell me what to do!
1% of investors have gold in their portfolio. Most of that 1% do not own bullion. Just because you hear commercials does not mean the commercials are effective in changing the status quo of investing. Come on DormRoom, think!
you should be selling gold because the deflation tsunami is going to wipe out anything in its path except for cold hard cash. and that pullback in the tide that happens just before a tsunami devastates coastal areas is happening right now........
kito
Only if you want to take the chance on not being able to get it back.
The only way we correct a LOT lower here,is if the Stock Mkt totally tanks, and / or the EZ Falls apart, and eveyy dumb ass in Europe runs intothat SO Called safe haven the dollar yet again.
Personally I am keeping what I have, and will be adding much more, IF the Euro collapses, and the prices dive here.(fine by me, if I can buy it again at $500-800.00 oz.), highly unlikely though, as the Pac Rim,Chinese,Asians, and Indians, and Vietnamese will be sucking up EVERY last ounce.
Because we ARE going into Hyperinflation, after the deflation ship is finished. And I guarantee you it's coming.
If there is a 'deflation tsunami', chances are pretty good your cold hard cash will vanish along with the overwhelmed bank you're keeping it in. I suppose you might be keeping it in a safe at home; but if there is a deflationary tsunami, what do you think governments all over the world will do to pay their bills, in the face of collapsing tax intake?
They will print. They will print like there's no tomorrow, and your deflation will flip into hyperinflation, as it always has throughout history. Good luck timing that move, bucko.
Buying gold is contrarian. Fewer than 1 in 500 Americans own even a single ounce of gold bullion. The other 499 prefer the number on their bank statement as a store of value.
you shouldnt be so ameri-centric. the world doesnt revolve around the u.s. anymore. there are 2 BILLION plus asians that have been on a spree over the past several years.
Dorm Room,
Sorry for the BOLD, stuck for some reason.
What have shops ( that are stealing people blind), and are springing up all over.......because there's a sucker born every minute.
Cause JR, and MF to not BTD just like anyone else does?.
When they see ANYTHING as cheap, compared to fundies, and where they think it's headed, they BUY.
Just like all here do that have any brains.
You think these ad's and TV mercials are selling to people(Sheeple??), hell no.
They are looking for SUCKERS.
I have YET to see ONE offering anything but HIGH Prem crap first, and then if they cant make you swallow that, they hit you w/ 20-30% prems over spot on regular coins.
It's sickening(EVEN here),to see and read the prices some of the ZH'rs are paying over SPOT.
DUE DILIGENCE REAPS REWARDS.
DormRoom
99% of the "gold shops" you see on every corner are only buying. They sell nothing.
Nice try. But most of the gold ads are for companies buying gold (from credulous top-callers), not selling it.
Here's some homework for you, troll; what percentage of all wealth does gold presently represent? And what is the historical norm?
DormRoom - Perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of the word "contrarian." If people are being urged to sell, and everyone is selling, Faber and Rogers wouldn't be very contrarian by selling now would they?
Is there no five '9' Gold Maples in HK?...why settle for second best?
Well, I can buy guns anytime of the day. Take that !
Simon Black saved 4% of spot on electro-plated fake coins! LOL
My *guess* is that you are 100% right.
That would be quite the scandal if Chinese BANKS were found to be passing off fake gold coins.
I sort of doubt it.
I was being facetious, but even some back of the envelope math ((13560 - 12973) / 7.7845) == $75 US, when apmex.com has the same coin for $65 over spot, shows that his brilliance fails to impress.
Hardly worth the flight to HK just to avoid having "the authorities" know about your one coin purchase (unless you can somehow fly to HK for $66-$70), especially if it requires being scanned or groped to accomplish the aforementioned "Midnight Express" impersonation.
Mr. Black thinks very highly of himself...in fact, that may be all he thinks about.
The Bank of Taiwan (commercial not central) sells kilogram bars at just USD10/oz above CMI 24H spot price. Smallest physical delivery available is 100g bars (from UBS), and the premium is only $20/oz above spot.
you mean here?
If I was operating a gold shop in China, my stock would rarely run out, if you know what I mean.
Nice copper coin you have there.
O/T
Is that an intraday double top in SPY?
golly, another SB travel vignette. I'll remember, next time I'm in Hong Kong, you know, when I can afford the $4000 air fare for me and my family, to buy some gold coins.
Is this stuff relevant to, what, perhaps even .005% of ZH readers? I mean, jeebus. well, I guess there's enough great stuff on ZH we can afford to have a little pablum here and there. :-)
Nice, but beware. While Hong Kong has a "preferential trade agreement" with the US and thus the 4.1% import tarriff is waived, many other countries do not. Since all gold must be declared it is important to know if the country you are buying it from does have a preferential trade agreement.
With a "non-preferential" trade country you can buy dore (less than 0.995 quality) and import that duty free, but you'll have to have it refined.
Tariff Duties on U.S. Gold ImportsFor gold products, the 4-digit prefix of the Harmonized System Code (HSC) is 7108. The 2 most popular subcategories for America’s imported gold in 2009 were:
Only the second sub-classification above (gold bullion) is subject to a U.S. tariff duty of 4.1%.
However, that duty does not apply to countries that have signed a preferential tariff agreement with the U.S.
America’s 2 largest gold suppliers, Mexico and Canada, have preferential tariff and free trade agreements with the U.S. Accounting for 52% of American gold imports, these trade partners delivered $5 billion worth of duty-free gold last year.
Most of the other product categories for gold are duty free. The only other exception is miscellaneous semi-purified gold (HSC 7108.12.50.50). That product item represented $82.9 million in sales or 1% of U.S. total gold imports in 2009. The customs duty is 4.1% for gold imported from countries not covered by a preferential trade agreement.
From: http://daniel-workman.suite101.com/usa-gold-import-and-export-sales-2009...
Dilbert's CEO: I have an MBA and I keep losing money in the stock market. How can this be?
Pointy haired boss: I bought gold because its shiney. I've doubled my money.
There are some surprisingly asinine comments here. I like this info. I go abroad several times a year and HK comes up about once a year. I wonder how many of you lugnuts even have a passport.
And yes, coated fakes are indeed quite possible; everything else is faked in that part of the world. Caveat Emptor.
well, hello .005%
Whenever an article starts out with how cheap stuff is in some country, you can be sure that it's another article by "cheap man".
I call BULLSHIT! Mr. Black:
How about Krugerrands for just 3.6% over spot, right here in Los Angeles?:
http://www.golddealer.com/
And you don't even have to travel to a communist country...
(p.s., they also have AGE's for 4.8% over spot...)
Pool Shark.
Dude, less my calc is off, it is closer to over 7%.
Spot $1611/Sell $1716?. 1oz Krug?.
Also note that that company does not update its website very often. Often you will call about a particular product (especially COMEX deliverable bars) and they won't have a single one, even though it is listed on the website.
Trolls love to post links to them, showing how much stuff they "have" for such low prices. Reminds me of the old story of how a man went to a store and was about to buy something, and balked at the price. He told the proprietor that the store across the street had the same thing for half the price. The proprietor suggested he go buy it over there. The customer said "I can't, they don't have any".
lol
Krug's are actually about 8% at least above spot in SA. That's if you are lucky.
Here is the biggest seller in Cape Town : http://krugerrandsa.co.za/sell.asp
Currently at spot + 14%
They set prices once a day.
Go back and look again later today; you will find they consistently charge ~$60 over spot for Krugs.
Works out to right about 3.6%
Beware carrying gold coins across borders
http://www.internationalman.com/im-interviews/how-not-to-transport-your-...
Harrowing story, thanks for sharing.
Hi Simon, how is Ragini doing? send her my regards!
Don't worry, two weeks from now that coin is going to be 10% over spot.
Who the fuck just kicked Gold in the nuts...???
What you buy in Hong Kong in the morning is worth a lot less in the afternoon when banks in London and New York decide to sell the gold that was given to them by central banks (given with a bonus).
You gotta be dumb to buy shit the Chinese central bank promotes
Golden week has nothing to do with Gold! It's how the 4 weeks of holidays spread across the year are called in China. This week is a holiday because of the "October revolution"...
Remember China is a communist country!
No one in Hong Kong gives a damn about The PRC's October 1 holiday. Try hanging up a Chairman Mao poster in HK - it'll be down in minutes.
I'm gonna go out for pizza. I wonder if my wife would mind if I just took a two-month detour to "stop by" Hong Kong and pick up a gold coin or two.
"two-month detour" Traveling by container? You could really deck out one of those 40' boxes for the journey; not much of a view, though, if you're in the middle of the stack.
I buy my gold from the pawn shops and Turkish jewelers for the spot price. At least where I live the locals don't give crap about owning gold and silver. The shops buying gold from the public have to send it to a melter, if I do not buy it first. They are only paying public 75% of spot for the stuff. I'm not sure what the melter gives, but it has to below spot.
I give them a better price than the melter and they get their cash flow back quicker. I cringed when he told me he sent lots and lots of old US gold coins to the melter. I've picked up plenty of pre-1930 $20, 410 and $5 gold pieces from them in the last year and a half. Half the fun anymore is the excitement to see if I can snag a $20 double eagle, or a $5 indian for spot.
Since the recent fall in price the physical has dried up a bit. I only got a 20 Fr Swiss 1927 coin today. Last weekend I got 5 pre-1900 20 RM, 3 pre-1900 10 RM and 1 5 RM German 90% gold coins for spot. I picked up 30+ silver eagles and 40+ silver maples for silver spot as well last Wed.
I have quite a collection of old gold coins from around the world.
I only pay a premium when I need to get a large quantity all at once from a regular dealer.
They guys know me now so well they save the old American gold coins for me until I come back in. The system has been great at dollar cost averaging. They never have too much at one time, and I usually can scrape together enough cash to take the undamaged "money" type coins. I don't touch the gold medallions and stuff that was not official currency where you can check the sizes and weights on the internet.
It is kind of fun. You never know what countries gold coins you will get next.
What city are you located?
I don't need to create any competition for my sweet deal, so I won't give the exact city name.
I live in a town on the south west side of Germany. I know in larger German cities there is enough public demand, the gold buying shops can sell at a premium to spot.
I want to personally thank JPMC or whomever drove the price of silver down today. I bought below 29, which keeps my average cost still in the mid 20's. Hold for 1, 5, 10 years...whatever it takes to pay off whatever debt I have left, and buy a piece of land with the rest. The silver retirement plan.
Few things about this article :
He wrotes :
= It’s commonplace in Hong Kong for banks to sell gold..
Well, not so common..The main ones ( HSBC, Standard Chartered..) doesnt sell physical gold !
= You can buy gold for as low as 0.2% over spot (practically a rounding error) in Hong Kong. Unfortunately, just about every bank was out of stock.
The discussion about how many % you buy over spot is a little bit silly. What is important is the SPREAD that you have between the buying and selling price ! In HK, its around 0.34% and it doesnt change overtime !
Lets be clear. If you buy an unsealed coin with Bank of China ( usually they do not sell unsealled ) then if you want to sell it, Bank of China will NOT buy it back from you contrary to the sealed ones and if they do they will not use their buying price for the sealed ones.
What you can buy unsealled is the 5 tael bar ( 99% gold ) with Hang Seng, Bank of China, Wing An. here the spead is lower, between 0.12 and 0.21%
= Needless to say, the banks start running out of stock and the premiums go up;
They were already running out of stocks few weeks ago...
Malaysian bank UOB ran out of bullion coins recently. Supposedly they've been ordered for 3 months, but no shipmet has come through since :-(
You can also buy bullion in HK. Go to a prominent jewelry store on Queens street. They are something like 37 grams, .9999 purity and spot market price. You have to pay cash for bullion. If you pay for .9999 "art", you can use a credit/debit card. There is a premium for this "art" though and not spot price.
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