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Guest Post" The "Housing Recovery" In One Index

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Lance Robert of StreetTalk Live

The Housing Recovery In One Index

housing-totalactivityindex-022412There have been numerous media stories out over the last couple of weeks about the recovery in housing at long last.   Of course, this is the same housing bottom call that we heard in 2009, 2010 and 2011 - so why not drag it out again for 2012.  Eventually, the call will be right and they will be anointed with oils and proclaimed to be the gurus that called the bottom.  In the financial world you only have to be right once.

However, back on earth, where things really matter, housing is a major contributing component to long term economic recovery.  Each dollar sunk into new housing construction has a large multiplier effect back on the overall economy.  No economic recovery in history has started without housing leading the way.  So, yes, housing is really just that important and we should all want it to recover and soon.  The calls for a bottom in housing now, however, may be a bit premature as I will explain.

The Total Housing Activity Index shown here is a composite of the sales of new and existing homes, new construction permits for single family homes and new single family home starts.  As you can see we are still near the same lows that we were in 2009 at the end of the recession.  Furthermore, and what is really worse, is that the "recovery" was built on the bank of a whole slew of tax payer funded bailouts, tax credits and incentives from HAMP to HARP to the Home Buyer Tax Credit.  Not quite the recovery the government was hoping for.

shadow-inventory-020912The recent bumps in housing have been due to the warmest winter on record in the last 5 years which is skewing the seasonal adjustments.  With 1 in 4 home owners under some form of duress with their mortgage it is only a function of time until a further erosion in price resumes particularly as banks start to deal with the backlog of foreclosures and delinquencies that are on their books.

The bottom line here is that while we have witnessed a very mild recovery in housing from the depths of the abyss; it is important to not forget that it has been with the help of a large amount of artificial support including the zero interest rate policy by the Fed and "Operation Twist" which has suppressed interest rates on mortgages to historic lows.  That won't last forever and as we wrote in our article on "Why Home Prices Have Much Further To Fall" people buy payments not home prices

The shear magnitude of the TOTAL inventory that must be cleared, the potential for rising interest rates, a weak employment market (no job=no house), declining real incomes and rising inflationary pressures will likely keep the housing market suppressed and disappointing for quite a while in the future.  This is just a function of economics.

Maybe we have seen the low point in housing?   Maybe the bottom truly has been put in?  A bottom, however, doesn't mean that a sharp rise in prices or activity is just around the corner.   This particular patient could very well remain comatose for much longer than people expect.

 

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Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:16 | 2194360 redpill
redpill's picture

Housing is now the caboose, no point in even paying attention to it until broader economic issues have been dealt with.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:46 | 2194441 trav7777
trav7777's picture

can't deal with some of them...they're presently intractable

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 21:09 | 2194669 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Shit needs to collapse.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 23:18 | 2194906 Crassus
Crassus's picture

Why do people fuck with the people who handle their food behind a wall?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 23:40 | 2194975 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

They're fecalpheliacs?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 23:50 | 2195001 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

let them eat 1%

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 10:39 | 2195483 toady
toady's picture

My 'verbel' tip is usually "don't bet on the ponies ", although I sometimes do "don't spend it all in one place", if its small enough.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 23:21 | 2194916 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Housing recovery begins as soon as banks are allowed to foreclose on and resell existing inventory.

The End

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 01:40 | 2195176 The Beam
The Beam's picture

What if people don't want those houses until the come down 10, 15, 25, 40, or even 50%?

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 01:40 | 2195177 The Beam
The Beam's picture

What if people don't want those houses until the come down 10, 15, 25, 40, or even 50%?

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 06:51 | 2195340 dolly madison
dolly madison's picture

What if people don't want those houses until the come down 10, 15, 25, 40, or even 50%?

It would be better if they did come down that far.  I was heavily in real estate during the bubble, and the prices were hugely inflated.  Having housing prices so hugely inflated is bad for the young.  They can't get into the housing market, and are forced to be renters. 

However I am noticing rents getting kind of high, while purchasing houses is costing less, so that very well could lead to more home sales.  I am just watching in California though, so I don't know if this is a national trend, and it requires loans for buyers for the market to correct, so it very well might not recover.

Maybe home prices will really fall way down like 3rd world countries.  I always hear stuff about them spending 70% of their income on wheat, which doesn't leave much to spend on housing.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 10:31 | 2195470 TrulyStupid
TrulyStupid's picture

If this happens, prices will go down further. If mortgage rates rise, local taxes rise, fuel costs rise,  the PI portion of montlhy payments must go down to keep monthly payments the same.

The only way the housing recovery will start will be with rising wages and new household formation (how about bringing home half a million troops and stationing them in the southern border states... maybe they can stimulate new demand).

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:50 | 2194453 ilovefreedom
ilovefreedom's picture

Which is why they are trying to manipulate labor and employment statistics to paint a prettier picture.

ALL CABOOSE PASSENGERS!! FREE APPETIZER WEINERS AND RAPIDLY DEPRECIATING ASSETS IN THE DINING CAR!

 

Obama COULD do something, but he wont.

Give all those below a certain age who will never get social security, a chance to opt out of receiving benefits. Continue paying taxes for the next 2 years to help bolster accounts and the government will give you one of those underwater mortgage houses on FREDDIE MAC AND FANNIE MAE'S balance sheets. Let people make homes instead of bailing out banks who ask greedy prices while squatters and blight move in.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:27 | 2194608 donsluck
donsluck's picture

That could get very complicated and add to the morass of moral hazard we are already stuck in. My perspective is that interest rates won't go up, essentially for ever, and that the liquidity may, actually, finally find it's way back to real estate. In any case, the bottom is as well as in, but there are no profits going forward.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:24 | 2194790 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Not even close to the bottom. Prices are still artificially supported. Until prices drop to their historic average of 1.5-2.0 times median income, the bottom is not in, and we'll probably drop below the mean before bouncing back to it. If history is any guide, that is.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:19 | 2194506 Michael
Michael's picture

Jumbo and prime mortgages are going into default now. I'm thinking of how I can profit from it like the squid did?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:54 | 2194554 Michael
Michael's picture

Just overlay a mortgage reset/recast chart with the Case Shiller chart and that's all you need to know about RE.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:30 | 2194610 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

The imagery is fitting with you talking to yourself again.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:34 | 2194524 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Seriously, only the 1% can afford houses (in actual nice neighborhoods) today

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 11:10 | 2195513 bdc63
bdc63's picture

That is simply not true.  30% of all homes in the US are owned outright -- no mortgage.

Hey, but don't let the facts get in the way of a make-you-feel-good story ...

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:33 | 2194811 toxic8
toxic8's picture

I aint no financial analyst but that looks like a dead cat bounce to me.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 13:36 | 2195734 The trend is yo...
The trend is your friend's picture

We can just de-couple from housing.  We had a jobless recovery, we decoupled from europe and went up, now we can de-couple from housing and go up up and away. As my 4 year old say's "please dad please why not?"

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:17 | 2194361 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Housing will be a sour point for a very long time. Real estate prices in Rome after the fall of the Roman Empire didn't recover until the Renaissance. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:44 | 2194539 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Are we measuring using the denarius or the solidus?
Or some other yardstick and if so what?
Genuinely curious...

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:28 | 2194609 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

i think the vandals got a good deal.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 23:56 | 2195017 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

the Roman or the Goldman?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 21:07 | 2194665 Crassus
Crassus's picture

 Denarious is Ag, a solidus is Au. I'm sure you meant aureus or solidus.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:00 | 2194743 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Yes. Post-Roman deflation lasted until the gangster-banksters of the Borgia era manufactured inflation. ff

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 23:43 | 2194980 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

The actual PM content of the coins from Early Roman to Late Roman era didn't help much....

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:18 | 2194364 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

Tyler, the interest rates will never raise, period.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:44 | 2194431 blu
blu's picture

People should really start to think about the implications of this.

I'm trying to imagine an economy where savings of any kind (including UST) pay zero interest for time periods spaning generations.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:14 | 2194502 Fluffybunny
Fluffybunny's picture

ZIRP for too long will cause inflation which will force nominal interest rates up ultimately.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:43 | 2194633 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Zero /Interest/ rate/ policy. N.Y. Fed   Here is some Geithner /pop-up.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:57 | 2194649 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

ZIRP doesn't force nominal interest rates up as long as the Fed is there and is willing to buy all debt with newly minted USDs.

This will not be over until the rest of the world finally decides that it really is not in their best interests to keep accepting USDs for anything of value. And in the case of China, that might be some time yet. A half billion idle Chinese workers is a problem.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:03 | 2194747 trav7777
trav7777's picture

this is all irrelevant.  There is nothing left in our economy that can pay a positive ROI.  That's what the rate structure is telling you.

The Fed was expecting an explosion in borrowing to go do things that could yield >.25%.  Hasn't happened.  That's because the business climate isn't adequate to produce that ROI.  So nobody borrows.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:40 | 2194821 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Bullshit!  One can get a positive rate of return in "our" economy if one borrows at ZIRP and loans to consumers at 30%.  It just depends on where one is on the food chain.

How the fuck do you know what the Fed was expecting?  I suggest it got pretty much what it was expecting, i.e. a transfer of wealth from the 99% to the 1%.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 23:58 | 2195018 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

It just depends on where one is on the food chain...and how many laws they can legally break

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 01:12 | 2195149 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Prosecutorial discretion -- it's a bitch when your food chain position is not very high. And it's the reason the "Rule of Law" doesn't work after a while.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 04:57 | 2197303 dollarbill
dollarbill's picture

core CPI says its all good .....consumers dont purchase food & energy any more

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:40 | 2194537 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

How about all the pension funds ending up as an obligation of the Govt.For one.

Self reinforcing viscious circle.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:01 | 2194744 trav7777
trav7777's picture

lol...savings PAY?

Savings either generate a return or they shouldn't pay.  Interest doesn't magically pay itself...someone has to take that money and earn a return beyond the interest rate paid.

Our economy isn't capable of generating the types of yields it used to.  It's a 0% economy now, like Japan.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:31 | 2194614 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Never might be an exaggeration, but I would agree with "not until there's a system reset". The gubbermint can, in no way, afford for interest rates to increase substantially. They just don't have the means to pay the interest on the debt and they can't collect enough money from the taxpayers to do so.

The reason interest rates are so low is because there's no other way to fund the guns and butter without massive borrowing and there's no way that the spending for guns and butter is going to decrease in an amount that is necessary to begin reducing the debt until it's Game Over.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:12 | 2194764 trav7777
trav7777's picture

wrong.

Reset?

Reset WHAT?  You people realize that even if we "reset," OIL production is not going to reset back in its lifespan to where we can grow it again, right?

The reason interest rates are low is because there IS NO DEMAND for credit.  Bankers can only charge what the market will bear.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:51 | 2194837 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Reset as in all debt, including Ben Franklin variety, goes away.

You're full of shit.  The reason interest rates are low is because the Fed buys trillions of it at insanely high prices with trillions of newly created USDs.  Bankers aren't interested in loaning money to ordinary people except at usurious interest rates when they can get guaranteed rates of return by borrowing from the Fed and loaning to the Treasury.

There's plenty of demand for credit.  I'd borrow to buy gold and silver if I could at a reasonable rate.  Margin rates are too high when you consider the lack of risk and the cost of funds.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 00:59 | 2195132 brettd
brettd's picture

Total simple genius.

Interest rates fixed.

Currency generically/consistantly devalued.

Total genius.  Happening as we speak.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:21 | 2194372 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

How many Ounces of Gold does it take to buy the

Average U.S. House? http://www.investmenttools.com/futures/metals/welcome_to_the_page_about_gold.htm#re_gold
Fri, 02/24/2012 - 23:45 | 2194987 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Hang on.  In the first Great Depression, you could get a block in Chicago for an oz....

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 00:00 | 2195026 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

and a block of detroit now

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 00:59 | 2195133 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

I'm holding out until I can buy the whole Copper Country area....

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 12:15 | 2195578 toady
toady's picture

Hey! That's my turf!

I suppose I can move a few counties South ...

The Dells are nice.

Wil you be a good neighbor, or will hostilities ensue?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:25 | 2194379 MrBoompi
MrBoompi's picture

Maybe the value of my house is declining, but I'll still own it free and clear in a few years.  Still better than paying rent, I say.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:38 | 2194534 sensei
sensei's picture

Nobody owns a home free and clear in the US.  We occupy it at the pleasure of our feudal lords and only so long as we make the required tribute.  I own my home "free and clear" and live down a dirt road.  Still, it can be taken from me at any time should I fail to pay my property taxes.

 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:39 | 2194628 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

"it can be taken from me at any time should I fail to pay my property taxes."

And if Reconstruction is any example, the taxing authority can increase taxes to the point that the property "owner" can no longer afford to pay them and has "her property" confiscated by the feudal lords.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 21:39 | 2194711 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

I think the current powers that be are using the Bolshevik playbook vs the Kulaks...  they will bleed all the independent wealth away

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:01 | 2194745 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Interesting - yep, you may have identified the next housing crisis....tax foreclosures.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:42 | 2194631 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

this is why i don't buy land or a home; i have the money; but... when the SHTF, governments will be squeezed by the bankers and levy taxes on everything; and try to pop us like a zit. They will actually want to take your land from you, to give it to the bankers for payment of the national debt. crazy, criminal, but it's coming...

 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:57 | 2194850 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

That's one reason I have a mortgage.  If home "ownership" gets too expensive compared to renting, the PTB gets to eat their own shit sandwich.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 07:22 | 2195353 StormShadow
StormShadow's picture

True but bankers don't shoot real well and they tend to have necks that can't support their corpulent bodies when suspended from trees

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:55 | 2194647 Braindonor1
Braindonor1's picture

Local Government prefers having people in houses paying property taxes to acquiring property through default. In California, the abilitty of Counties to increas property taxes is tightly controlled - just look what has happened to coubnty budgets post crash if you don't believe me. Addditionally, you must be delinquent in property taxes for six years before the county ends up with the property.

Sensei - maybe your road is 'dirt' because you own it? You obviously intensely dislike local government - that is your right. However, please do not misrepresent the facts.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:56 | 2194648 Braindonor1
Braindonor1's picture

Local Government prefers having people in houses paying property taxes to acquiring property through default. In California, the ability of Counties to increase property taxes is tightly controlled - just look what has happened to county budgets post crash if you don't believe me. Addditionally, you must be delinquent in property taxes for six years before the county ends up with the property.

Sensei - maybe your road is 'dirt' because you own it? You obviously intensely dislike local government - that is your right. However, please do not misrepresent the facts.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 12:17 | 2195580 billybobtx
billybobtx's picture

They don't "acquire" anything, they sell it at auction just like a foreclosure and the new owners have to pay the back taxes, then continue to pay going forward.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:04 | 2194752 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

OR...some bank might come along and dispute that you own in and will attempt to foreclose on it.  That scenario has happened too many times.  I have no idea who would've "junked" your comment. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:39 | 2194627 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

What if you have been paying the wrong party and they never had a right to your payment and it was never applied to any payment book of the party that might.  You'd be in with the 85% of folks with mortgages.  You'd be waiting for the laws to change that the real owner could come try to get it back because of that silly mistake.   Shoot,  the laws say they can do that now.   

People shouldn't assume just because someone takes your money they have any right to.  It's an MF Global World, and they learned their craft from the MBS and REIT scams that came before them.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 21:33 | 2194703 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

By now you've been spanked hard enough on this blog to know to quit your Dave Ramsey "Christian Savings Bootcamp" and Suze Orman's "The Yenta Mother-In-Law You Need But Never Had" subscriptions to believe such bullshit. Stop paying your taxes and tell us what happens. Or better yet, get educated in the real world.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:25 | 2194380 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

Back when BS Biden was proclaiming a "recovery", Martin Armstrong penned a piece from prison that housing would not recover until 2032.  This may be the best economic prognostication ever made.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 07:25 | 2195354 StormShadow
StormShadow's picture

Can't wait for his movie to come out

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:27 | 2194385 prains
prains's picture

housing bottom 2112....slow bleed until all the old inventory is pushed over

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:28 | 2194392 non_anon
Sat, 02/25/2012 - 01:54 | 2195197 prains
prains's picture

Rush will still be touring

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:29 | 2194393 Spacemoose
Spacemoose's picture

a report from the trenches.  my company exhibited at the international builders show in orlando earlier this month.  i came away with several impressions after working the booth for several days.

1. overall, show attendance and potential business was much greater than last year.

2. many attendees from the d.c. area.  business is booming around d.c. (your tax dollars at work).

3. custom home builders were in great abundance (builders who build for the rich are doing ok -  those building for the middle class; not so great).

4. business good in canada and in some areas of the midwest.  texas holding steady.

5. number of exhibitors were at a low point.

i'm a cassandra and not a pollyanna, but the show did provide a fine illustration of the fact that home construction is regional, regional, regional.  the fact that you can buy a home in detroit for a dollar has no impact (excepting psychological) on the price of a home in peoria.  thus, even with the overhang, there will be regional markets which continue to do well.  my theory is that as gas prices increase, the granularity of the housing market will become even finer (smaller) leading to micro housing shortages in those areas with stable to increasing employment.  thus, areas which are now depressed due to competion from reo inventory which is located $5 worth of gas away will suddenly become attractive when the reo competition is located $10 worth of gas away. 

 

 

 

 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:11 | 2194760 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Dupe post

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:11 | 2194761 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Show attendance at trade show and prospective business looked positive.

Read:  Attendees likely builders with nothing to do and got to write off a trip to Orlando.  Also I can't imaging gas prices correlating to micro housing shortages anytime soon.  Just an opinion and thanks for yours.

 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:31 | 2194401 rlouis
rlouis's picture

Only 2 government officials should have the authority to lie (ok... maybe a few more); the Secretary of State and Secretary of Defense.  Give them official liar status and hold everyone else accountable for their words. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:59 | 2194654 Braindonor1
Braindonor1's picture

Why?

Justify your statement please.

Is SockPuppet 2.6 up?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:14 | 2194768 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

License to lie = for national security reasons.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:34 | 2194403 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

More important than housing inventory, even more important than house prices and mortgage rates is one of the truly underestimated threats to housing and the economy in general: The cost of home ownership. And in our Biflationary economy, it has gone bonkers. 

It used to be that a real white elephant of a home went for pennies if the new owner agreed to just pay the back taxes. Now if that weren't already enough of an issue, there's something so much bigger: the anticipated future cost of owning and operating the home. 

Because of reckless monetary policy and a political climate hostile to any form of preparation, the cost of ownership is and will be prohibitive to most in the middle class. It will be a wild card that many will balk at because of unpredictable spikes. Here are some of the jokers in the wild deck of cards: Energy costs. As we've covered abundantly this week, forget the propaganda. Energy costs are going to soar. That includes electricity, heating and A/C. Maintenance and upkeep: with all raw materials climbing, the cost of having a presentable home, let alone a saleable one, will rise and rise. Insurance: the broke zombie financial companies will keep trying to milk you for all they can just to survive. And lawyers will be at the ready to sue for anything. Waste disposal and water will rise. Home security. Home improvement. And taxes: as broke municipalities get broker, they'll need sources of ready cash. And homeowners are their captive audience. And many more hidden costs. 

Keep in mind that very soon, soaring energy costs and declining median incomes will make new buyers shun the old McMansion or anything that won't keep a lid on expenses for energy and upkeep. Large homes and old homes simply won't compete with smaller, energy efficient ones. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:17 | 2194776 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Copy that.

Have a huge house in a cold climate.  No prospective buyers for nearly two years...and it's a great place (if you don't mind heating all that square footage, paying for big electrical system, and filling the tractor to groom the acres).  People want simpler, smaller homes these days and I can't blame 'em one bit.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:42 | 2194419 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

3+ yrs. to fix the most impotent sector of america's economy at a lost to the public's personal [home equity] pocketbook now eclipsing $7tn --- but, it's OK to bail out TBTF's & AIG

pathetic 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:45 | 2194434 adr
adr's picture

Take away builders starting homes and never finishing them, because they have to break ground or their stock would tank on the news of no new construction, and speculators buying up forclosed homes for cash, and you would have an index 60% lower.

People are still buying homes, but only when they have to due to jobs. The rest of the homes are bought by people trying to buy out your house at pennies on the dollar and rent it out to someone paying $300 more a month than what the mortgage payment would be.

As always the stock market distorts the reality of the situation. Would Toll, Lennar and the others be so upbeat if they were private? Would they be breaking ground on new projects if their market cap wasn't dependent on it?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:46 | 2194439 ilovefreedom
ilovefreedom's picture

How could interest rates ever rise?

Even with record low historical rates the debt is so high interest expense in 2011 was $454 Billion.

If rates were to go up even a little bit, the majority of the federal budget would have to go torwards interest payments. OOps!

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm

 

 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:29 | 2194606 Rynak
Rynak's picture

You may think about the word "ever".....

....because, what you actually mean is "ever in the current environment".... which assumes that it is sustainable.

How many times do you think you can halve people's income anyways?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:52 | 2194459 DarkestPhoenix
DarkestPhoenix's picture

Anecdotal, but I did sell a house this week.

Of course, I bought it dirt cheap for $32,000, put less than $20,000 into it to make it a turnkey living space and then sold it way below everything else on the market for $89,900.  Had it listed for less than a week.  Only if you underprice the suckers who are trying to offload their homes can you move anything.  That's what these idiots don't want to admit: The prices have about another 10-20% to drop before these things will flow again.

Still, in the meantime, I'll take the $40,000. 

Even if it doesn't by as much PMs as it used to. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:10 | 2194492 pacu44
pacu44's picture

The prices have about another 50-75% to drop before these things will flow again.

 

there, fixed it for you

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 21:33 | 2194700 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

You ha 52k in, what would it have rented for if you don't mind my asking?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:04 | 2194481 mendolover
mendolover's picture

The whole thing really pisses me off.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:38 | 2194533 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

What pisses me off is my fucking State raised property taxes (damned near double) at the height of this mess and is STILL collecting at these higher appraisal values which everybody knows were total bullshit from the beginning.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 07:36 | 2195358 StormShadow
StormShadow's picture

Sir, can I interest you in some tar n feathers to bedeck your local revenuers in? When I learned of people in Revolutionary times doing such I thought "how barbaric". It was only because in 7th grade you're not able to appreciate how mad a tyrannical govt can make you.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:06 | 2194486 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Hey guys and gals, here is a article from October 11, DataQuick. I'm sure there are more current posts. Has anything changed since 2 TRILLION dollars were injected into the global banking system? A bag of DORITOES is a little smaller, and more expensive.

  Are the banks passing on "so called" record profits VIA mortgage write downs and bringing inventory to market? Are banks offering any type of SWAP programs to home owners? Are banks really financing "Builders", I doubt it?!  The banks are restructuring crap that was on the books 5-6-7 years ago!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:09 | 2194489 miker
miker's picture

The housing "bubble" was intentionally BLOWN by Bushee II and Greenespan.  They didn't want a depression on their watch after the stock market implosion. 

They handed it off to the next 8 year village idiot.  Funny how nobody hear jackshit from Bushee or Chenee anymore.  They know they fucked the country.

So the economy was on the downhill way before this shit got started.  Housing will be depressed for YEARS.  What a bunch of shit, people talking about a recovery.  And of course, the overall economy was on a decline back in the 90's as we shipped everything and anything to CHINA Inc. 

Right now our economy is easily 1.5 trillion a year lower than what the numbers show.  Actually it's more.  So don't tell me about some bullshit recovery in housing.  That's the last thing to be concerned with.  No, let's see how things work out when we just balance the budget and when all the future liabilities (pensions, SS, MC, etc) get properly funded. 

Now we're talking some real shit!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:21 | 2194508 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Don't forget Hank Paulson. He left Goldman to kill Lehman (G's biggest competitor) and hand AIG bailout money back to GS. In the process he also gave himself a fat bailout check:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbISRwE2lfw

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:59 | 2194563 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

The housing "bubble" was intentionally BLOWN by Bushee II and Greenespan.  They didn't want a depression on their watch after the stock market implosion.

***********

I think the housing bubble was blown mainly to goose the CDO market that was leveraged to mortgages by who knows what gearing ratio-

The whole worlds financial system (world investment banks) hinges on bundled/sliced/diced and squared mortgages-mostly sub-prime that was graded AAA-which now sits unmarked to true market pricing in money market funds all over the world all stuffed full of this toxic garbage and investors have no idea that it's basically worthless-but eventually they will find out-

If upside down mortgages were the the only problem-there would be no problem

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:21 | 2194594 GernB
GernB's picture

I think you give too much credit to investment banks. Why bundle mortgages into securities in the first place if they can be sold outright on the secondary mortgage market? Could it be to skirt lending standards that wouldn't allow them to be sold to on the secondary mortgage market. Was that by chance or part of a centrally planned design to make housing "more affordable," by reducing lending standards below those allowed by Fannie Mae.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:53 | 2194646 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

I think you give too much credit to investment banks. Why bundle mortgages into securities in the first place if they can be sold outright on the secondary mortgage market? Could it be to skirt lending standards that wouldn't allow them to be sold to on the secondary mortgage market.

*************

I don't recall giving any credit to investment banks-

Financial regulators effectively outsourced the monitoring of CDOs to the rating agencies ie: there were no regulations-

As far as secondary markets go-there was even more bundling and tranching with even higher yields for a slightly lesser rating-but the base was investment banks-

Investment bankers called the bottom sections of a CDO - the ones that are the most vulnerable to sub-prime and other junk the "equity tranches"

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 03:55 | 2195269 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Lest we forget the other Elephants (and Donkeys!) in the room...

Dear Mr. or Ms. Congressperson,

Thank you for your interest in the American Public Trust's Gold Card credit program.  Rest assured your application has been given thorough and careful consideration by the American people.

After reviewing the information provided in your application as well as your credit report, we regret to say that we are unable to extend you further credit at this time.  The reasons for our decision are as follows:

(1) Inadequate income.  Our records indicate that your annual income for the 2011 taxable year was $2,170,000,000,000.  You have requested a credit limit of $17,000,000,000,000.  These figures exceed the American Public's debt-to-income guidelines for credit issuance.

(2) Excessive spending.  The receipts you provided indicate your annual expenditures for the 2011 fiscal year total $3,820,000,000,000, or $1,650,000,000,000 more than your total income for the year.  The American Public prefers that its members of Congress maintain a positive or neutral rather than a negative cash flow.

(3) High debt utilization.  Your credit report indicates that you have a credit limit of $14,300,000,000,000, and of that amount you have utilized $14,300,000,000,000, for a debt utilization ratio of 100 percent.  Consumer banking industry guidelines recommend a debt utilization ratio of no greater than 30 percent for standard creditworthiness, and 10 percent for exemplary creditworthiness.  A debt utilization rate of 100 percent meets our classification of "You're *&^%$#@! kidding, right?"

(4) High credit activity.  Our records indicate you have credit accounts open with the Federal Reserve Bank of the United States, the Social Security Administration, the People's Bank of China, the Bank of Japan, the European Central Bank, the Bank of the Republic of Burundi, Bank Frick & Co. AG Liechtensteiner Privatbank, Quik-Cash Loans, Three Gold Balls Pawn Shop (Ann Arbor, Mich.), MyFast Loan.com (Antigua), paydayloans-r-us.com (Cayman Islands), Frank the bartender (Old Towne Tavern), and several members of the extended family of Salvatore "Sammy Meatballs" Montigliano of Montclair, N.J.  While account activity threshholds vary by lender, your activity exceeds American Public guidelines for further credit issuance.

(5) Multiple recent credit inquiries.  Records indicate your credit report has been accessed more than 6,437 times in the past 60 days.  Inquiries may be triggered by applications for credit, employment or both and represent one factor in determining an applicant's loan risk to a credit issuer.  The Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), as amended, requires businesses to have legitimate grounds for requesting your credit history.  If you feel your credit information is inaccurate or has been accessed for unacceptable reasons, you may wish to contact the Federal Trade Commission.

(6) Multiple account charge-offs.  Balances left unpaid for more than sixty (60) days may affect your creditworthiness.  Your credit report indicates unpaid balances from Operation Iraqi Freedom (Iraq); Operation Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan); the Troubled Asset Relief Program; the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act; the Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act; the Cash for Clunkers Extension Act; the Worker, Homeowner, and Business Assistance Act of 2009; the Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act of 2010; and others too numerous to list.

Member of Congress, please understand that the American people's decision was based on information obtained from a report from one of the following three consumer credit reporting agencies:  Equifax, Experian, or Trans- Union.  The reporting agency did not make the credit decision.

You have the right under the amended Fair Credit Reporting Act to request a free copy of your credit report once each calendar year from each of the three major credit reporting agencies listed above.  You can order your report from annualcreditreport.com or the Annual Credit Report Request
Service, P.O. Box 105281, Atlanta, GA 30348-5281.

You may also wish to contact a consumer credit counseling agency. The National Foundation for Credit Counseling can help you locate a reputable counseling agency in your area.  You may also wish to visit the NFCC's website for helpful tips on such subjects as

    • drawing up a budget
    • living within your means
    • saving during tough economic times
    • steps to take when your finances get out of control

In the event that you can provide documentation of changes to your credit status, we will be happy to evaluate another application for credit from you at that time.  We hope to have the opportunity to meet your credit needs in the future.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact the American people during regular business hours.  Please do not contact us at home.  If you call us after 9 p.m. and wake the baby, there will be hell to pay.

Sincerely yours,

We the People

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 12:24 | 2195596 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

You forgot SPOUSAL FINANCIAL INDESCRETION...  EU insolvency. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:19 | 2194507 ragedmaximus
ragedmaximus's picture

housing recovery=who the hell wants to pay more for overpriced houses

housing stocks recovered due to pomo bernanke and they are overpriced also

mainstream media propoganda "AMERICANS ARE WIRRIED ABOUT POOR CREDIT" oh myyyy and REFINANCE now suckaaaaaaa

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:31 | 2194521 Bobportlandor
Bobportlandor's picture

The easy fix for housing.

Whatever the morgage outstanding on the home, issue 1 lotto ticket @ $1 each,

and exempt capital gains for winner untill they sell.

Say 5 tickets per person max per house.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:38 | 2194530 devo
devo's picture

To be fair, the doomsday call will "eventually be right", too. Dislike that opening argument.

 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:01 | 2194571 GernB
GernB's picture

When the doomsday call is right, nobody will be worring about who called it.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:44 | 2194540 riphowardkatz
riphowardkatz's picture

Shadow inventory will be gobbled up by land banks. It is already happening. Bernanke has mentioned it multiple times. 

 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:27 | 2194796 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Probably...but then what?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:05 | 2194576 working class dog
working class dog's picture

The wholesale of TIMMAH's mortgages to GS, MS etc is happening.

Why are these scum selling the so called worthless traunches to the other scum.

I am sure their 10 year think tank has plans to rent all this housing to the fresh crop of igorant sheeple, using the tripling birth rate of the latin population in the US , demographics as basis for their slum lord plans.

 

Ron Paul are you listening, I am voting for you please do something about this no bid sale. Let all americans bid on this housing, after all we paid for thier bailouts and bonues, and their so called pay back at cheaper US dollars, what a ponzi.

 

 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:08 | 2194579 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Absolutely correct ! I want in on the " Shadow Inventory" , IPO!   FUCK Faceclown!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:28 | 2194799 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Seriously - looking at all the options, Ron Paul is the only one who seems to really get it.  But, of greatest importance, no bankster has bought him off.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:11 | 2194582 Jena
Jena's picture

In related news (because for many months in the last few years Stockton and California's Central Valley was often at or near the top of worst cities for foreclosures), the city of Stockton, California is considering bankruptcy because of burdensome employee costs, excessive debt and bookkeeping errors that misrepresented accounts, city officials said today.  The city faces a $20 million deficit in the next fiscal year. Expanded retiree health insurance commitments in the 1990s have left the city with a looming $450 million unfunded liability.

Once again, it will be the bondholders who get hosed, as the city council will ask to default on $2 million in debt payments through June 30, 2012.

Other tidbits from the article:

Stockton had the eighth-highest violent crime rate in the country in 2010; the second-highest foreclosure rate in the U.S., behind Las Vegas; and the eighth-highest unemployment, at 15.9 percent in December, almost double the national average.

Such factors helped earn Stockton the title of “most miserable city” in the U.S. twice in the past four years by Forbes.com, out of the 200 largest metropolitan statistical areas. In November, Moody’s downgraded about $137.7 million of its debt to the third-lowest investment grade, citing Stockton’s “precarious financial position.”

http://paper.li/RealtyTrac/1306363512?utm_source=subscription&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=paper_sub

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:25 | 2194601 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

The first graph looks like a dead-cat bounce.

__________________________

Comparegoldandsilverprices.com

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:32 | 2194616 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

The Sheer nonsense of this being down to banks dealing with the backlog of foreclosures and delinquencies on their books.  If they author missed a couple its okay but might have added under;  expense categories,  legal, regulatory, judiciary, felonies, misdemeanors, homeowners, trustees, RMBS, shareholders, CDS, mark to market value, fraudulent transaction, Bevilaqua, fraud in the inducement,  Attorney Generals, agreed to fines, pending fines, agreed to settlements, pending settlements, robsigning forgery, perjury, other,  litigation costs to the finance sector of that housing recovery.  Remember those big name too big to fail that are reporting billions of losses on their SEC reports because everyone is suing them as fast as they can to take advantage of the can kicking?

The patient is on life support, critical, unstable, comatose, terminal, and the orders are to resuscitate at any cost.  

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:39 | 2194625 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

I love your " Sarcasism" +1 Mispel intended. Create (A) cloud. Every blog has one.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:31 | 2194807 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Pull the plug.

The patient has no signs of life....completely brain dead.

The matrix needs a reset anyway.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:50 | 2194638 newworldorder
newworldorder's picture

As most non ecomomists know, housing ownership is dependent on having a job that earns sufficient income to afford the home, having a family to house in said home and the belief that over a period of time housing will slowly appreciate vs the severe depreciation we have seen during the last five years. Otherwise its cheaper to rent or move in with family.

The ability to afford a home based on income and earnings is paramount. During the 70's, 80's and 90's this ability existed abundantly among the majority of working age population. This ability no longer exists among many, especially those just starting a family who are in their 20's or 30's. In most states and especially those with a family, an average income of $10 to $20 per hour does not cut it for home ownership.

Those of us waitingfor a pickup in home sales will be greatly disappointed during the next 10 years. The fact that the NAR and the bubble heads in the media and politics do not wish to acknowledge this, will keep the market from clearing.

The number one reason for future home affordability is therefore  job creation with sufficient income to afford a home. Third world salary/earnings will not guarantee home afordability. Third world wages and earning potential is becoming the new reality for most Americans.

 

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 14:01 | 2195808 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Hear ya. 

 My young sons actually see this as well.  One day they asked if it was okay for them to live at home after they graduated (H.S. or College) just in case things didn't get better.  Surprising - not the same dreams us "older" people had when we were young.  While I secretly want them around forever - I find it sad that they look around at the world they see on the news, etc. and it is a little scarier than when we grew up.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:53 | 2196698 dolph9
dolph9's picture

Well this is only because we have a corrupt debt money based system which inflates housing prices.

If anything, housing should continually and constantly deflate.  It should cost less to buy a house the older it is.  Which of course is now happening, and against metals, remarkably so.

But I don't think the sheeple will ever understand this.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 20:48 | 2194641 penexpers
penexpers's picture

Everything's fine!

 

Praise The Bernank!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 21:07 | 2194664 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Thanks FED money is fleeing out of RE into commodities & stocks. You can't have it all.

 

 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 21:22 | 2194680 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 The Fed is the Fed, " Bunga Bunga".  A reserve currency can't escape it'self!   ( TRUTH)

   The /YEN & Yuan are pathetic as well. 

 

     Sovereign Currencies are the best TRADING / exchange idea. Banks got greedy on the " overnight" swaps. and Godzilla/Japan was born!

   Shall I write the whole book?   EARTH calling CYN/YUAN?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 21:48 | 2194725 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

OK - I see that this could go at least two different ways:

1)  The banks will continue to slowly but surely dole out the foreclosure processing so they have a steady stream flowing out

OR

2)  The banks could just look at the ASTOUNDINGLY HUGE backlog and just decide to process 'em and dump 'em via a fast-track and drown the system to try to get it all over with it at once (NO WAY). 

I firmly believe that the general public has absolutely no idea how many foreclosures have been just sitting on the books or how bad things really are - with the banks waiting years before processing foreclosures.  Too many people want to believe the crap that the Realtor's Assoc and others are slinging and all the daisies and sunshine in their reports.  Well, underneath those daisies is a whole lot of hot, steamy fertilizer (as most of us here know).

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 21:55 | 2194737 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Ah, believe I just heard that Jan 2012 was the worst month on record for housing starts.  The worst....ever. 

OMG...I'm so ticked about those realtor reports that I've started replying to myself. 

 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 21:50 | 2194727 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

Here are plenty of charts that all say the same thing: the housing market is dead and now controlled by the Federal government.

http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com/

Check out this bill coming before the Senate on March 14th.Choice Neighborhoods 

Another $350 million for community groups in the name of the poor.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:55 | 2194847 1eyedman
1eyedman's picture

"housing recovery"...depends on what market you want...new homes or existing homes.  new homes have gone from nothing to something, so bring out the band. existing homes are on life support unless its five digits or seven digits...both are all cash transactions, and barely affect working people as working people cannot qualify generally.

there has been a half generation where people did not save to buy and thus years of people not saving results in a hole in the housing timeline.  for 10 years people went from trying to save 10% to putting down zero and getting cash at closing--first time buyers! I know I used to be a mortgage lender and remeber distinctly that it was surreal.  the 'starter home' concept disappeared.  two unmarried people working $8/hr jobs were getting houses exactly or better than their parents homes they would be moving out of.

here in FL, foreclosures are all the rage....thats where the 'deals' are.  alas they are already getting flipped.  60k to 70k to 80k in 60 days.  but the banks are dribbling them out to make the appearance of demand/frenzy to keeps prices up stable.  thats their choice/right.  as long as the fed keeps them liquid they will not ever fire sale the inventory.  its about controlling the prices....they could dump and real capital would come in and make real yeilds, but the fed's efforts as usual are causing gross mis-allocation of capital. instead of people buying cheap, reselling/renting it out, the profits are phantomized into the banking sector....continuous bailout...dont expect it to chage you'll be waiting a long time.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 06:49 | 2195338 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

There will be no change in the United States until Direct Action is taken and Jeb Bush has to take note if he wants to run for President. Massed protests with thousands of middle class homeowners (not currently in default) protesting at the activities of the Banks would shake the cosy cartel of lawyers, bankers and politicians.

There used to be such a tradition before easy credit made people soft

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 03:16 | 2195249 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Remember the BUTT HOLE SURFERS?   They had a one hit wonder. That was a pretty good tune TYLER!

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 07:03 | 2195343 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

The funny thing is that the American Colonies broke away from the British Empire and then modelled their Constitution on the English system via misinterpretation by Charles-Louis de Secondat, baron de La Brède et de Montesquieu making the President = King George and Vice President the Prince of Wales complete with casting vote in the unelected Upper House for which lacking Lords, the Americans chose Senators nominated by State legislatures.........until that miracle year 1913

 

Then it was Federal Income Tax 16th Amendment and the Direct Election of the Senate  17th Amendment and then the Federal Reserve in 1913

For some arcane reason the Federal Reserve was unlike any other Central Bank being dominated by Commercial and Investment Bankers making New York the powerful fulcrum of policy. With Bernanke and Greenspan it is essentially the most powerful unelected institution in the world and accountable only to its Governors. Is it any surprise that Jamie Dimon emerged as kingpin of the financial system ? He received Federal Aid to buy Bear but Barclays was denied  it to buy Lehman because Fuld was excluded from the discussions. It was JP Morgan Chase that was all over AIG, Morgan Stanley, Wachovia, and could break rivals by freezing or demanding additional collateral - a real Bear Squeeze.

Now the Federal Reserve essentially controls all Retirement Funds, Housing, Federal Funding and has claims on ALL US tax revenues. Just how did the United States move from a democracy in the 1950s to an Indentured Serfdom more akin to Soviet Russia by the end of the 21st Century ? Was it really all down to Greenspan the Senile ?

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 09:17 | 2195417 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

At least US property has adjusted to all this bullshit. In the UK we are still at Pre 2008 levels. The crash this side of the pond will be epic. I see minimum 50% writedown and our economy is TOTALLY dependant on house prices. UK Sheeple are in for a huge shock.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 12:27 | 2195608 Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture

Rabobank: House prices will continue to fall In The Netherlands http://tinyurl.com/7shc8n3

According to The Dutch Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS) house prices fell by 2.3% in 2011, with a marked acceleration of 1.7% in the fourth quarter.

House prices declined 11% since the peak of August 2008. Adjusted for inflation houses were 15% cheaper in the past 3.5 years . However house prices are still 80% higher than in 1995. Adjusted for inflation that’s 60%

Dutch house prices will see an average decline of 5% in 2012 and also in 2013 this decline will continue.

Home Prices Declined 2.4% in Fourth Quarter

More households spend half of pay on housing – Renters hit hardest, with rent costs rising as income falls

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 15:31 | 2196000 Dermasolarapate...
Dermasolarapaterraphatrima's picture

 

 

 

Rents are falling like a lead weight due to massive oversupply:

 

"Over 1,000 recent postings on Craigslist for the Las Vegas market are offering free rent."

 

http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/doubling-down-on-rentals-las-vegas-re...

 

 

 

 

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 15:54 | 2196059 Jena
Jena's picture

http://www.foreclosureradar.com/

I've posted this site once before but I'm doing it again in case anyone is interested.  You can plug in any zip code and view current listings, but more importantly if you click on the Trends tab at the top, you can get a feel for what the real picture is for any given area in terms of how many foreclosures are happening in a given area, how long the timeframe is to foreclose, go to a Trustee's Sale, etc.  I know the Shadow Inventory doesn't appear in any of these graphs but it's interesting to look at and watch over time.  

Well, it is for me, anyhow.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 06:45 | 2197348 Robert Oak
Robert Oak's picture

We are not jumping on the housing is all better now bandwagon.

New Home Sales are not that great at all, even with revisions 2011 is at record lows.

new construction has some seasonal problems with it.

We overview these economic reports and the reason I'm running over to comment, is #1 we talk about wages/income still being way out of alignment with prices.

Add to that it seems banks on a willy-nilly can take people's houses, even more easily that Mr. Repo man on your car, well, all that has happened is the great slide is over.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 16:50 | 2198591 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

Great post. I added commercial RE prices to house prices and look what you get!

http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com/2012/02/26/home-and-commercial-r...

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!