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Guest Post: How Bankrupt Governments Will Confiscate Your Gold
From Simon Black of Sovereign Man
How Bankrupt Governments Will Confiscate Your Gold
About two weeks ago, GoldMoney sent out an apologetic email to all of its Dutch customers. The email explained how the Dutch financial regulator (AFM) considered GoldMoney to be in violation of various licensing rules and compliance requirements.
Among other things, AFM indicated that GoldMoney was selling ‘investment objects’ without a license… something that they consider a heinous breach of their silly bureaucracy.
Now, there are so many technicalities involved here– whether physical metal constitutes ‘investment objects’ anymore than a collection of 80s action figures or a cellar of fine Bordeaux. Then there’s the jurisdictional issue– GoldMoney doesn’t even operate in the Netherlands, nor does the company sell its own inventory. Etc., etc.
None of these points seem to matter; the regulators have spoken, and as a consequence, GoldMoney is now closing the accounts of every customer living in the Netherlands.
It’s always troubling when governments go after firms like GoldMoney. The more signs I see, the more I’m starting to believe that we’re heading down a path where precious metals are once again confiscated, outlawed, or at least severely restricted in many countries.
Let’s start with the why. What possible sense would it make to reduce or restrict gold ownership?
Simple. The modern financial system is a complete joke. Money is conjured from thin air, backed by false promises from bankrupt governments. Then there’s the fractional reserve swindle, centrally planned interest rates, government-produced inflation, manufactured statistics, insane credit and sovereign debt bubbles, etc.
It’s a total fraud… and like any good con, it depends on just that: confidence.
In order for a system based on -nothing- to perpetuate, it’s imperative that it commands the confidence of the people within it. And people in rich western countries have been programmed since birth to believe that the colored pieces of paper circulating around in their economies are intrinsically ‘valuable’.
It’s funny, because developing countries already know it’s a scam. They don’t trust their governments, and they don’t trust those silly pieces of paper either. Out here in Asia is a great example– most of the region is very gold-oriented. They use paper as a medium of exchange, but it’s a cultural norm to save with gold.
In fact, when I walked into an Internet cafe earlier today here in Thailand, I noticed quite a few people at the computers checking out live gold charts (from Kitco).
People in western countries are just starting to get it… and as more people peek behind the curtain to see the true crimes being committed, the system will be finished.
The gold price is a constant reminder that the fiat financial system is a con job. And the higher the gold price becomes, the more people become aware. The political establishment will do whatever it takes to maintain the status quo, and it’s possible that precious metals restrictions will become a tactic:
Step 1: Just make gold ‘harder’. To buy. To transport. To own.
Think about the changes we’ve seen over the last two years; government-regulated exchanges are continually hiking their gold margin requirements, increasing investors’ burden to buy.
On the physical side, the US government buried some insane regulations deep within last year’s healthcare bill. The new rules required a mountain of paperwork such that anyone who purchased a single ounce of gold from a coin shop would have to submit a special 1099 form to the IRS.
(The rule was later modified under intense pressure from various lobby groups, but it still gives you a good idea of what these people are thinking…)
Then there’s the new Dodd-Frank legislation that makes it nearly impossible for US citizens to trade securities and commodities from overseas accounts beyond the reach of the federal government.
Then there’s the Liberty Dollar debacle in which the US government used obscure counterfeit laws to seize millions of dollars of silver coins that were owned by the firm’s customers!
Then earlier this year, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) issued new guidance requiring that US taxpayers who hold gold in certain offshore financial accounts report such holdings on their annual FBAR. Conveniently, this ruling put up a barrier for Americans to use GoldMoney.
GoldMoney’s battle with the Dutch regulators is just another example of governments making gold ownership more cumbersome.
Step 2: Plant seeds of doubt
We’re seeing signs of this as well. “Prominent” economists have been pounding the table against precious metals with vigor, and the propaganda ministry is focusing its efforts on gold’s recent price drop to make people believe that it’s dangerous to buy.
This recent media clip in which a reporter extols the virtues of the US dollar being backed by the federal government says it all. It’s already begun, and we should expect more.
Step 3: Tie gold to terrorism. Plant evidence.
Here are two incontrovertible facts: Westerners are petrified of Arab terrorists. The Arab world is a very gold-oriented society. It wouldn’t take much effort to link the two by suggesting (and planting evidence) that terrorists use gold to move money and finance their operations.
This will be surely be the next step… and if we start seeing this, you can bet your last ounce that restrictive controls are coming.
So what to do…?
If you live in a broke western nation, whatever you do, don’t store your gold in a bank safety deposit box. Bankers are unpaid government spies, so you might as well hang a sign up that says “please seize my assets”.
Ideally you want to move your gold out of the country. We’ve talked about anonymous boxes in Vienna’s Das Safe facility in the past, as well as Hong Kong’s The Storage. Both of these are great options to buy and store gold.
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This confiscation nonsense is horrible.
Keep your gold in hand.
Agreed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UdB2YiymmUc#!
don't forget that the Dutch Central Bank (DNB) had forbidden the painters union to invest in gold. They had todivest, losing a substantial part of the capital.
For myself, having a Goldmoney account and a Dutch (Rabobank) and Belgium (BNP Fortis) bank account, they made it hard for me as well. Fortis closed my account because of the Goldmoney transactions and Rabobank inveted me to their office to explain my transactions.
www.nobankerleftbehind.com
All your gold are belong to us!
As is everything else...
This is utter horseshit.
How? Especially if your life expectancy becomes tied to your believed "usefulness"/"productivity, that's really the only real result -- that your life itself is basically owned by TPTB.
This article is complete and utter horseshit. Gold is money, it will circulate as a medium of exchange once again on a black market if not a main one.
The only reason it was confiscated, and it wasn't confiscated it was limited in ownership to 5oz per person, which is not the same, was to force Americans to use Federal Reserve notes when notes existed in circulation side by side with gold. Now that that FR system is failing gold and silver will be back in vogue as money. There is no need to confiscate because they will tax it to oblivion before they then allow it to circulate as tax free money.
GoldMoney is not in trouble for selling gold. It's in trouble for selling investment products to Dutch residents without a license. It is not the same, and it has nothing to do with gold. Anyone can find themselves in bother for doing the same thing with anything other than gold. You imply a great deal with this article which is wrong. Time to stop pandering to what you THINK ZH readers want to hear me thinks Mr Black...
They can only confiscate what they know you have - only use cash to purchase gold!
Until the incentive is offered to turn you in when you offer payment with it.
Let's assume that you salt away your gold and the whole system goes bang. What do you think the Revenue will do, sit idly by when you waltz past in your Ferrari, or are they going to come banging on your door wanting to know how you paid for it?
And then siccing a "useless eater" on you to ensure "compliance"...
have you idiots ever heard of bribery?
Yes, idiots that try it can find themselves in deep shit just for trying. Have you ever considered that you might not need to?
H - you might not want to purchase anything like a Ferrari with your gold at that point because there would be a lot more intense people than mere tax collectors watching and figuring out where you live. May I suggest something like a 1974 chevy pickup, well-battered, with a high-powered engine, self-sealing gas tank, and run-flat tires instead?
But hey, everybody to their own taste. And fate.
We don't have Chevy's where I am old stick, but I get your drift...
My point is that if you are a gold investor now then you are going to be one of a few wealthy individuals left after the fail. How are you going to deal with that without attracting attention, and then having a good compliant explanation that doesn't involve tax fraud?
Bottom line: The state will use violence against their citizens whenever it is in their interests. If everyone complies, they will keep doing it.
I have no time for long, drawn-out arguments.
Those of us who are about to die salute you!
Speek for yourself, I still plan to live long and prosper.
Just how tiny can these boxes get?
I don't know. Let's see...
snicker
every empire turns on its own in the end
The American empire did that many years ago.
It will not be tax fraud if you get your congress to pass HR 4248 Free Competition in Currency Act of 2009, http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-4248
Yeah, "only know what you have". Just l;ike thise "secret" bank accounts in Switzerland.
You make some good points and i write to state that i agree with You.
Also one can still own gold and better still than owning gold which is stored on an island in the the english channel ( is it really there ?) which one has little access to in times of emergency.
I would rather have physical gold than an assumed amount stored somrwhere where i have never been nor seen.
I thought you were talking about MY comment being complete and utter horseshit. :)
The problem with your stand, vis-a-vis confiscation, is that if you know that gold and silver are back in vogue as money, so will THEY. And if it is the only true accepted store of value (one large-scale indicator would be the inflationistas' belief that, eventually, OPEC will order oil be repriced in gold and RMB and out of the US dollar), then they will grab with both hands as a result of that.
The problem with taxation to Hell and back is what most people believe will happen anyway -- most real commerce will go black-market/barter before then.
There is a big difference between my personal gold and gold in circulation as money. Please read my post below. To confiscate gold only removes it from circulation causing higher gold prices and deflation in the same way that an economy that produces many goods for export, and receives gold in payment will experience lower gold prices as a consequence and thus higher goods prices and inflation. There is no point in confiscating it; they will only need to tax it before it becomes money once again and the tax income will cover all the losses from credit instruments. That is what I believe you need to look out for.
How does it remove from circulation if it's confiscated to pay for TPTB's stuff? When the paper is no longer accepted by the people with the oil and they say "no gold, no jet fuel", then they will need to confiscate the gold for "national security" reasons.
They will have to dig through 20 feet of dog shit.
good questions, no real answers.
if the government legislates that you have to declare all your gold holdings worldwide, perhaps to repatriate all of it, or pay taxes on it, perhaps more than once, under penalty of forfeit, then you'll have to decide what to do. if you don't have your gold "in hand", then you have a paper trail. and how many people have coins in hand with no paper trail? if you have a paper trail, what will you do when they pass those laws? they might not be able to "confiscate" your gold easily, but they can easily force you to decide whether to cooperate or become an outlaw.
some believe that such laws will quickly precipitate a revolution. but why should we believe that gold confiscation will be the last straw? not many americans actually own a meaningful amount of physical gold. other last straws are imaginable, but not gold confiscation, not in the u.s.a. and confiscation would probably occur beforehand. that's sort of the point: they want to get their hands on your gold before all hell breaks loose.
so they will probably force gold owners to decide whether to become outlaws and sweat it out until the collapse of the central government, which might or might not happen, and which might take a while if it does.
keeping your gold in a storage facility in hong kong hardly solves the problem.
Two questions, how would they force you to repatriate anything, and especially if it is held overseas for you in Trust, and second, why didn't Americans revolt when it was last 'confiscated ' for want of a better word?
i'm saying that they can't necessarily force you to comply, only put you in the position to decide whether to obey or become a lawbreaker.
i would also say that if you have enough gold and it's all wrapped un in legal complexity, they're going to ask "who are you?" and think "maybe you're one of us." and if you are, they'll go into their ad hoc process of exempting you. it would be a small group of people taking gold away from everyone else. the more you have, the more likely it is that you could make trouble for them, and the more likely they would be to treat you as one of them. they'll collect the low-hanging fruit from people who are afraid to defy them.
the fact that americans didn't revolt when FDR confiscated gold, or whatever he did, is consistent with what i said, which is that confiscation won't be the catalyst for revolution.
They can't and won't force you because any law that required that they do would be unenforceable. They will simply tax it to oblivion and you will wonder why you bothered.
My advice is to go research "Controlled Foreign Corporation' CFC rules and work out what is not a CFC. You will then have all that you need to defeat domestic income tax on non domestic assets.
But you need to be careful...
would you be concerned about them changing the laws governing CFCs?
Generally speaking it is very difficult to change and enforce a law retrospectively, but even if they did I don't see how they can make those rules anymore draconian than they are. They are already quite comprehensive...
ex post facto but hey they've already chucked most of that document
unenforcable you say?
look up war on drugs, all they need is a bag of weed and all your property belongs to them, including your gold.
they could do it within the existing legal framework - no need to write new laws.
Tax IS confiscation, buddy.
Can you give me an example in US history when someone was Federally taxed based on possession rather than capital gains as a result of transaction? Even estate tax can be perceived as transaction based on changed ownership.
If, however, government would try to track all transactions of Gold made all over the world by Americans, good luck with that. That is the reason for keeping Gold overseas in private safe deposit boxes with private,personal access. And I am not saying that based on SB recommendations : it is what Marc Faber recommends.
Yes, two examples are the marijuana and the machine gun taxes. You might say that the machine gun tax isn't a tax but is a license. I would say there is no difference between a license fee and a tax.
There is a history of real estate and possessory interest personal property taxes being levied by local governments. The Feds could get into this form of confiscation too if they decide it's in their interest.
Since very few Americans own gold, most of them would be happy to see the gold hoarders relieved of their stash, especially if they thought it might make their lives more comfortable (as in tax them, not us).
The advantage of foreign gold stashes is that of not keeping all one's eggs in the same basket. That principle also applies to the foreign baskets. If you keep all your assets in an American, Canadian, Hong Kong, Swiss, Panamanian, etc. basket and that basket turns out to be the 21st Century version of the Soviet Union, you're fucked.
if they do you melt it into a bunch of religious articles or some other exemption WHICH WILL BE written into the law by a favored interest.
use your fucking brains and start playing the game.
Your minds are bound by rules you are too chickenshit to break like the big fish do
You might want to go and do some research on that...
some of you guys watch too much CSI. The government does not have that degree of skill or manpower to seek out and find your gold (or whatever) no matter WHAT paper trail exists . Their employees are mostly a bunch of under paid bumbling buffoons going throught the motions of doing a shit job for an employer they hate - whether for the IRS, FBI Fed etc. Provided you keep your head down and your mouth shut the spotlight will pass over and miss you. What you must not do is attract the spot light. once you do that their limited power is focussed on you and you WILL be found out.
Leona Helmsley is an excellent example.
That CSI or (in England- 'Spooks') stuff is utter horseshit.
PS - hello IRS - I haven't got any gold!!!
The IRS has a long and often sordid history of not believing the taxpayer's claims of innocence.
"some believe that such laws will quickly precipitate a revolution. but why should we believe that gold confiscation will be the last straw?"
More likely that confiscation of all TV sets would be the last straw. That would REALLY hurt. F'ing sheep.
new gmrpeabody
What you said is .... "All your gold are belong to us! "
I am sure..What you really meant is... ""All your gold are belong to USA!""
/Sarc
I don't see anything sinister in either of those. Pension funds face rather strict rules about their asset classes and you're going to hit automated triggers for potential flags when you use goldmoney, Fortis apparently just didn't think the risk was worth the customer ... their prerogative.
Silver = useless shiny metal going to $3/ounce. Clever (sarcastic) youtuber that must be on ZH.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHjjUZugFCE&feature=related
*edit - "Sarcastic" is the adjective form of the noun "Sarcasm". Confusing, I know....
I give up explaining sarcasm. Junk away.
Dutch GOVT = Nazi, btw.
Thanks for the good laugh JL.
BTW it is necessary to have some intelligence to understand sarcasm, and sadly, well, you know... round here...
Yeah. right after they exchange 100 green FRN's for one new red FRN, or better yet, a new red UST "dollar".... and that ain't sarcasm.
Agreed:
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2009/08/confiscation-anatomy-different-view.html
and Part 2
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2010/08/confiscation-anatomy-part-2.html
Just read again for revision the 1st part and Ender's posts in it - not worried anymore.
Don't ever underestimate the desperation of a chump. If Govt went so desperate as to ban short-sell they sure as heck are willing to ban precious metal ownership which is essentially a short on FIAT.
I can't see the Feds confiscating gold. They can't (or won't) enforce immigration laws, and probably couldn't institute a draft-so are they capable of confiscating gold?
They certainly can try. If they do try this, they are not long for this world.
What seem to be lacking here and in this article is a general lack of understanding of what gold is. There is a major difference between me having gold personally and the amount of gold in an economy. The only thing that is important about the quantum of gold in circulation as money is that it remains constant, which is entirely different to my personal aim which is to acquire more of it.
One of the main problems with the London Gold Pool for London was that there was too much gold flowing INTO London, not out. When the quantum of something increases its value diminishes, hence more gold equals cheaper gold and higher prices: inflation was the next problem for London.
There really is no point in confiscating it.
Harlequin I agree with your conclusion that there is no point in them confiscating it. In 1933 the US govt had relatively little gold. Now they have plenty (or so they claim) and since under a new gold standard the vast bulk would remain locked in a vault it does not really matter whether or not 80% of it is in fact tungsten - so long as the public / the world believe they have the gold to 'back' a new paper currency, and so long as they do not get into the kind of mess where other countries are turning up demanding vast quantities on a regular basis due to balance of payments problems.
Well Chaffinch, 'so long as they do not get into the kind of mess where other countries are turning up demanding vast quantities on a regular basis due to balance of payments problems- But that is precisely the point. Under a gold standard you would expect to move gold around from one place to another either in actual payment by coin at individual level or in bulk to settle overseas trade through the Treasury system. It is the reason why governments don't like gold; there's only so much of it you can spend.
What's needed is consistency, and a boost to the coffers when gold moves from an investment asset with a bid/offer to a money which is free. If the gold supply is consistent at whatever level then you have price stability, which is precisely what the Fed is mandated to provide by doing the exact opposite.
Madness, utter madness.
+1
Yes there is a real limit on how much they can spend (hooray!) and price stability - it could all work out fine if we had some sensible politicians rather than these idiots who think they can conjure up money, growth, etc out of nothing.
Sure, the gold has to move around the world from one CB to another (or, if the CBs trust each other, they just fork lift it from one country's pile to another), and there has to be some available (in coins...?) so that we peasants can redeem our paper, if we want to.
I guess if there is a collapse of fiat worldwide people are going to be extremely suspicious about paper for quite a while, so maybe they will need big stacks of coins in banks everywhere.
I'm concerned that some governments somewhere will try and cheat on the system, and issue paper in excess of their gold.
answer = sure they are.
more likely though they will make it illegal to do business of any kind in gold or silver - only in the approved currency (whether that be the dollar or some new thing)
when it all goes down they'll probably offer a bit more than the going exchange rate for your metals to suck you in and then they'll devalue the currency you just traded for by x times shortly afterward.
as someone once said, "it's a big party and you ain't invited."
They won't enforce immigration laws because it's good for those in power.
They will try to confiscate PMs and will confiscate a good portion from those people who are law abiding and want to believe in government.
They will also be able to confiscate gold in bulk from those businesses like GoldMoney that hold your gol. They also provide a very easy entry point for the govct to find who has bought gold and in what quantities.
This belief in a feebile govt that can't figure out what to do is a dangerous game. It's also historically inaccurate. Powerful governments use powerful means and a govt that is powerful enough to ban your rights of owning certain private property is also powerful enough to figure out where to conficate huge amounts of gold.
Confiscating (seizure without payment) could lead to revolution. I don't see that either.
Last time they "nationalised" gold; ie. a required sale to goverment at current recognized price. Then they devalued the dollar, or raised the gold price, depending on how you look at it.
They could do somthing similiar if it becomes necessary. Perhaps a required sale to Treasury of gold bullion at some then acceptable price followed by new issue of gold certificates in a "new dollar" or "world trade currency"?
I am saying it is possible, not that it is likely soon.
They wanted to get as much of the gold as they could before everybody figured out that the paper they were replacing it with would be worth less every day until eventually it became worthless, as that day ever faster approaches, the incentive to accumulate more becomes stonger.
Yes, the Fed owns the government, rather than the PR fiction that pretends the reverse is true, the bankers own the Fed and their vetted appointees run the Treasury, and those who own the banks rule the world. Effectively the big banks, the Treasury and the Fed are a single entity and in reality THEY are the government.
Desperate times demand Desperate actions. If the Dollar value was to take a swan dive, the US would need to use a different currency or medium to pay for strategic commodities and products (such as Oil). Since Gold and other PM are likely to be accepted overseas, its probable that they would make gold ownership illegal in order to confiscate for overseas trading.
Currently there is a Bill that permits the US gov't to confiscate all retirement funds, so a stretch to confiscate gold isn't far of a stretch. Another possibility is a possible currency devaluation or US dollar replacement. Before the Federal gov't made a move, they would likely outlaw private PM ownership so that people could not protect their wealth before the change was inacted.
If US doesn't get the commodities it needs in exchange for dollars, and it doesn't have gold, it will use other metals to get it. Common amongst these are lead and DU. Notice that the new Libyan govt is more than happy to exchange its oil for dollars after gaddafi refused to tow the US line. A revolution in Iran could be the best deal to keep the fiat ponzi going on for another few years.
I will observe a ban on gold ownership like I do the speed limit, except I won't pull over when the lights flash. The best of luck to any fuckers trying to take mine.
honey badger don't care
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qsclhKhAss
but, hb, we'll see what happens when it happens, yes?
simon black is now working on a project that will have your gold rocketed into orbit so that it will be out of the hands of everybody....trust nobody, except simon. he knows....
I put mine on Skylab, and you know what happened to that...
Yeah, great idea there... trying to launch into orbit (where minimum weight is critical to success) the heaviest pure uncombined element on earth! Sign me up! Sounds like a winner!
well I thought if you float it up for the first half mile on a weather balloon to save fuel and then take it from there...
fwiw dept:
the united states supreme court ruled 5-4 for confiscation of "Private Property[?]" in a landmark eminet domain case - June 23,2005 doc; Kelo v City of New London
the twist-o-logic is the interpretation of private property (private property being tangible?) as compensation, and we all know lawyers,... 99% of law is interpretation,...
summary: physical gold is property as the folks on Apri 5,1933 found out, but, and it's a big butt,... PM minted coins outside your domicile are exempt - go canada
jmo
I have jade bitchez. Physical jade.
I'm pretty jaded myself, who wouldn't be.
However, I am very excited at the thought of the imbiciles in government banning or confiscating gold. Watch what _that_ does to the price of gold.
Always good to see you still around.
Why thank you. Haven't been shot in the head yet.
jade <> jade. The problem with jade is the same problem with art and the same problem with nuismatics. Gold bullion tumps "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".
Goud, teven!
Allebei, graag.
There is not one government whose interest it's in to dump their fiat currency and acquire PM.
darteaus
There is not one government whose interest it's in to dump their fiat currency and acquire PM.
Then, WHY are the Central Banks BUYING, and holding, not selling GOLD for the first time in 20yrs+?
Why not sell the Gold, and buy FIAT?
CB's have a habit of buying at the top and selling at the bottom. It's a great way to trade, if you're into trading PMs. You see central banks buying gold, it's time to sell. Personally, I think PMs are for buying and holding, so when you see CB's selling, you know it's the bottom and time to load up.
because this time it IS different, this time they know their brave new world doesn't work, and they need a fall back when it all falls down...
In the doomsday scenario that gold bugs are hoarding gold for, the government will just once again make it illegal for citizens to hold gold. They will set a price that they will buy it from everyone at and that will be that. The house will always find a way to win, unless you're a multi-million dollar donar you will just be another sheep
You may be correct however, weed, coke and heroine are illeagal and all you need to do is look for the dude in a hoodie on the corner. In your scenario he'll work with gold and silver too. Free market
I remember when gold was illegal here (US) and there was a heathly underground market in gold. This would lead to an increase in the gold price.
Let me keep this REAL simple for you since your post has no CREATIVE thinking and merely a CUT & PASTE job from some other MINDLESS articles which appeal to your ILK.
Gold is NOT for "The Doomsday Scenario". Gold is for AFTER "The Doomsday Scenario". It is for TRANSITIONING one's wealth from the OLD monetary system to the NEW monetary system.
Now, get a dictionary and lookup big words like, "Monetary"!
Please keep your slave mentality to yourself, I for one don't need it.
I may be in the minority, but I 100 percent DISAGREE with storing your PMs in some safe overseas.
My reasoning:
1. When the SHTF and you need your PMs, how exactly do you plan on accessing them?
2. The NWO reaches all over the globe...Who's to say that your PMs are safe in another country?
Guess it depends on whether you plan on fleeing the country or plan on staying and resisting the tyranny.
EDIT
In addition to a good PM stack, I've got plenty of lead ready for anyone that wants to confiscate my REAL MONEY. Come and get it.
Precisely. The jist of the article is valid, but the proposed 'solution' is insane. If our current police state goes official and they lock down ownerhsip of PM's, you can bet they will concurrently shut down any means of acquiring PM's from overseas locations. And once such a scenario unfolds, you can also bet the host nation storing your metals will effect a similar seizure.
Storing your metals thousands of miles away is absolute lunacy. You either have it in your possesion or you don't own jack squat. Now if some form of confiscation/ownership ban a la FDR is enacted, how to go about using the value of said PMs is a different story. Particularly if Leviathan actually decides to enforce the situation. Not many of us will risk prison (or worse) in order to go underground and use PMs as a means of exchange.......or will we?
Amen.
Simon also completely contradicts himself in the article. He talks about GoldMoney being shut down...which proves that ALL governments (not just the US) will clamp down on PMs when the SHTF.
I think that more than likely PMs will be linked to terror. DHS will continue to paint real American Patriots as crazy nut jobs for believing that gold and silver are the ONLY real money (even though our Constitution SAYS so). They will probably have some smaller false flag attacks with some drugged out or mentally ill white Americans attacking malls, schools, etc.
I will resist the evil that is upon us all the way to death if need be. Whether you're a "believer" or not is irrelevant IMO. Either you resist the evil 100 percent or you live to become a part of it.
"It is impossible to grasp the meaning of the idea of sound money if one does not realize that it was devised as an instrument for the protection of civil liberties against despotic inroads on the part of governments. Ideologically it belongs in the same class with political constitutions and bills of rights." ~ Ludwig von Mises
"The more I see of the monied class, the more I understand the guillotine." ~ George Bernard Shaw
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the Jolly Roger and begin to slit throats." ~ H. L. Mencken
"During one of my treks through Afghanistan, we lost our corkscrew. We were compelled to live on food and water for several days." ~ W.C. Fields
A flurry of cut and paste in your honor.
Sovereign Man's worst ever advice: Don't do anything political, it has a low return on investment!
WTF? Saving your country from disaster is a 'low return'? Knowing you family and friends can continue to live in a stable, well-functioning society, with justice and rule of law and free markets, is a low return?
The only meaningful thing we can do in this world is try to make it a better place for future generations. Or you could open up offshore bank accounts and just think about yourself, and how your ass is sitting pretty (and alone) in Nicaragua, while everyone else has to stand and fight The Beast.
That's my overall take on Simon Black. Some of his advice is good, but overall, he's encouraging people to flee with tail between their legs. I've got news for you Mr. Black...When this final episode of the Fiat experiment ends, there will be NO PLACE on Earth that is immune to the effects of a global depression.
So once again you have two choices. Stand and fight or join the evil.
Simon Black would not have been a fan of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, etc. in 1776. He would have been telling everyone to flee to Mexico. You can only run for so long.
Voting with your feet is not necessarily evil. Some folks are too old or too weak for a fight; flight is a good alternative for the survival-minded.
Okay herd, what is your "disaster"? The unions would tell you that a free market in labor is "disaster". OWS would tell you paying back the student loans you signed a contract for would be a "disaster". Civil war is what you get when the 51% who are parasites decide that they are declaring war on the 49% who they declare as "rich".
Multiculti's have been pissing on the societal cohesion dividend for years. Everyone asks "why can't Greece default and be like Iceland"? well duh! thats what happens when the parasites take over the host, there is no way out.
Disaster is when the governed have lost control of their government. Disaster is when an artificial person has superior rights to a real person. Disaster is when the Constitution is deemed 'a scrap of paper'.
disaster means "being right when your government is wrong"...
...thats why they will be after our "righteous" gold.
Sure, great thinking. Grandma is a terrorist because she has jewelry.
Well, mine has a 12 gauge to protect hers.
Swiss banks have made their money for centuries by looking after private wealth belonging to individuals in other countries. I'm not saying they are perfect (after all they are banksters!) but they have a history of protecting individuals' assets against the wishes of other governments, and I am OK with keeping some gold in Switzerland - not all of it of course...
Yah, der Schwietzers! They kept all the stolen Jew Gold nice and safe for the German thieves! And burned the paper trail so they would look innocent. Fuck the Swiss to HELL!
If you're a Jew or anyone else that has a legal inherited right to that gold, all you need to do is prove it and the Swiss will give it to you. The contract they had with the depositors doesn't permit them to give it to just anyone that says they're a Jew and they deserve it. The banking contracts are quite specific.
The Zionists were complicit with the Nazis in the murders of millions of Jews. To give their gold to those same Zionists would not be that much different from giving it to the Nazis.
Employing the Willie Sutton Principle, if a gubamunt wants to seize gold one goes where the gold is... And two of the first places would be Vienna's Das Safe or Hong Kong's The Storage.
If they can't get at it physically (unless Austria and HK help... er aide and abet) then supboena the holders list/owners names.
Why would the US government go to huge trouble and expense starting fights all over the US and all over the world in order to seize more gold when they already have a big enough stash in FRNY and Fort Knox (assuming it's not tungsten)?
I'm saying that their stash is big enough because of gold is revalued along FOFOA's Freegold lines then they already have enough to back a gold currency.
Couldn't they find other ways to diddle people out of their gold? E.g. Making it compulsory to 'register' gold holdings with government - then making it illegal to sell 'unregistered' gold - then a special tax on people who hold more than a certain amount of registered gold. These people are bureaucrats - they are not going to want shoot-outs with US citizens and confrontations with foreign governments.
These people control:
Media - minds of the people.
Money - the wealth of the people.
Military/Law Enforcement/Lawyers - in case of physical resistance, duh. Threats tend not to work without something backing it up.
Pretty obvious who the people are that need to have their 'eyes opened'. The military folks. Military intelligence, intelligence agencies included.
Thats why any change of regime is likely to end with the Military in charge. Because they provide the lynchpin support, either to the current regime, or to the new one (through withdrawing their support, for e.g.)
Right on. Live in your rented condo in Jerkwater, OR, and store your 20 Kugerrands in Vienna, Austria. My ass.
Yea what sense does it make to store your gold overseas in a safe? None! If you want to keep your gold, bury it under a boulder in the back yard.
I think that advice is for people with pallets of gold and private jets.
1. I don't think you will be able to use gold when TSHTF (I'm not gonna sell you a chicken(s) or horse for a shiney bar which I can not verify is real). But it will store your wealth until we get to the other side of the sewage lagoon.
Try stocking some 90% U.S. (or whatever your locale is) coins for barter during S storm. Everyone can reqognize them as the real thing and they are denominable.
2. Totally agree.
re: edit. yepper :-)
It has been discussed over and over. Since it is meant to 'store' wealth, yes, you want it for when things are stable again. Totally agree, if things are in chaos you will get a barter value for the gold, whereas if the financial system goes offline and comes back backed by gold, well, clearly that would be the time to either use the gold as collateral, or sell it.
But, gold is also what would get you, say, past the checkpoint, over the border, onto this or that 'last airplane out of ....' if you were in a bad spot right at the moment SHTF.
Things are still pretty calm here in Canada, though, TBH. People are feeling squeezed, but not riotous/rebellious (yet) like our southern neighbors.
I would not get a wink of sleep if my physical PMs were thousands of miles away in another country. I do like Simon's (and Peter Schiff's) writings, but I will never understand their advocating keeping your real assets so far out of reach. In all honesty, I would rather die in a shootout with whoever came to confiscate my gold, than trust some bank in Singapore or whereever to safeguard my true wealth.
Lead is a PM. It just has a different use than some of the others. In certain circumstances, you may be willing to trade a pile of shiny for a pile of the dull, grey PM! Lead and lead delivery systems can be vitally important.
@SerininSlade;
So much for being in the minority!
If they take our gold they admit their paper is worthless. Never going to happen because the ponzi must be perpetuated ad infintium.
Also, ALL physical gold? Motherboards, tooth caps, jewerly....all riped out of your computer, your mouth and your off you neck. Right....
They will admit the old paper is worthless, but this new paper is solid. In the meantime, if gold is outlawed its value will only go up on the black market.
What a tease of a headline. This article is about how gold trading can be restricted or discouraged, not about how it would actually be confiscated. Don't keep gold in a safe deposit box - is this news?
Nope but it is Simon Black reporting.
If this keeps up Obama will declare Ron Paul a domestic terrorist for his views on sound money and have a drone take him out, "legally".
Already happened, see MIAC report
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13290698/The-Modern-Militia-MovementMissouri-M...
They will not come to confiscate your gold. Why would they?
Just seize/nationalize GLD or any other paper trade that has physical (even if it is highly levreraged).
It is different from the 30's in America when you actually had gold currency.
My gold maples will be fine in my personal possession.
Agreed. But then, how do you use them in a restricted environment? Only way I can see is through underground barter, which is fine until one of the legions of zombie lemmings gets wind of what you or I are doing.....and forwards the info to Aunt Janet.
Especially if being a snitch is the only way that "zombie lemming" can survive what's going on...
Ace Ventura
Agreed. But then, how do you use them in a restricted environment?
IF it comes to this, it's time to move,have a place ,country picked out ahead of time.
You can live in Deep Mexico, ver well, and for very little.And , of you steer clear of thje major cities, crime is not an issue.
I have known many folks that temporaily moved, and lived like Kings on $2,000-$2500.00 per mo........total.
Actual answer: You don't
quick! send it all to Chile's newest Biodome (aka Black's Hole). For only 10% storage fee you get 24 hour unemployed miner security. Sorry no earthquake insurance.
It's so easy to confiscate gold. Raise the price to $10K an ounce while the price of real goods fall and you can have my gold.
Simple. I'll buy houses and businesses and employ people and invest. Win, win. Confiscation is simply not necessary. Planting doubt for as long as possible is the agenda.
A great point.....it is just shaking out the weak handed longs and buying gold for free...then just after you sell at this "unbelievably" high price......hyperinflation hits and $10K paper aint worth jack shit.
I'm gonna hold till at least $55K an ounce. Then we can talk :) hehe
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cvdgPlEKW9k/TB2dVP7bmgI/AAAAAAAABNo/jw7RIviRsd...
If you own physical gold and it's not stored IN YOUR OWN VAULT (whatever form that may take), than you DON'T actually own physical gold.
Do you stick around that vault 24/7 guarding it? Nice life! I presume you have toilet facilities close by and someone else to work and get food, etc. How do you really know you can trust that person? Loose lips sink ships. You might be well armed and proficient, but what are your chances against 10 or 20 heavily armed intruders?
The risk it too much for me.
I didn`t know Bernanke had a daughter working as a talking head in Calgary! That is beyond stupid.
Yes, she has to be the stupidest talking head ever. "Gold isn't backed by anything." LOL
It sounds to me she has a point. What is gold backed by?
Some would suggest that gold doesn't need to be backed by anything, because gold is gold.
I don't own any gold or silver. gave mine away years ago.
excellent! I bet you forgot who you gave it to as well, I may find I lost heavily playing poker with some strangers if any body is foolish enough to come knocking on my door.
The last administration determined that waterboarding is not torture. Think you can last interrogation?
Me too. I learned years ago it was a useless ancient relic and gave the whole truckload away.
Me too. When Ben Bernanke told me gold was just tradition, that's when the light bulb went on and I dumped all my gold and silver for paper. Thank God I was watching that day.
I traded all my gold for these magic beans, and they haven't done shit.
Dawg,
Keep on 'em, it takes a while for the fiber to work.
Mine was stolen. Aw shucks :{
I lost mine during that unfortunate boat capsizing, along with all my weapons.
pods
I traded it for this dandy 44 Mag.
Gun owners should really stay away from boats, same EXACT thing happened to me!
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I sold my gold on BullionVault and took the cash (more than I started with) and, well, I guess it's sad but I just sort of frittered it away.
before they take my silver and gold, they'll have to take all my copper and lead