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Guest Post: Iran: Oh, No; Not Again

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Iran: Oh, No; Not Again

In each of the years 2008, 2009, and 2010, significant worries emerged that Western nations might attack Iran. Here again in 2012, similar concerns are once again at the surface.

Why revisit this topic again? Simply because if actions against Iran trigger a shutdown of the Strait of Hormuz, through which 40% of the world's daily sea-borne oil passes, oil prices will spike, the world's teetering economy will slump, and the arrival of the next financial emergency will be hastened. Even if the strait remains open but Iran is blocked from being an oil exporter for a period of time, it bears mentioning that Iran is the third largest exporter of oil in the world after Saudi Arabia and Russia.

Once again, I am deeply confused as to the timing of the perception of an Iranian threat, right now at this critical moment of economic weakness. The very last thing the world economies need is a vastly increased price for oil, which is precisely what a war with Iran will deliver.

Let me back up. The US has already committed acts of war against Iran, though no formal declaration of war has yet been made. At least if Iran had violated US airspace with stealth drones and then signed into law the equivalent of the recent US bill that will freeze any and all financial institutions that deal with Iran out of US financial markets, we could be quite confident that these would be perceived as acts of war against the US by Iran.

And rightly so.

U.S. imposes sanctions on banks dealing with Iran

Dec 31, 2011

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama signed into law on Saturday a defense funding bill that imposes sanctions on financial institutions dealing with Iran's central bank, while allowing for exemptions to avoid upsetting energy markets.

The sanctions target both private and government-controlled banks - including central banks - and would take hold after a two- to six-month warning period, depending on the transactions, a senior Obama administration official said.

Sanctioned institutions would be frozen out of U.S. financial markets.


The impact of this law was quite pronounced and immediate, with the Iranian rial falling sharply against the dollar in the first few days after the bill was signed into law.

Iran's rial falls to record low on U.S. sanctions

Jan 3, 2012

Jan 3 (Reuters) - The Iranian rial fell to a record low against the dollar on Tuesday following U.S. President Barack Obama signing a bill on imposing fresh sanctions against the country's central bank.

The new U.S. sanctions, if fully implemented, could hamper the world's major oil producer's ability to sell oil on international markets.

The exchange rate hovered at 17,200 rials to the dollar, marking a record low. The currency was trading at about 10,500 rials to the U.S. dollar last month.

Some exchange offices in Tehran, when contacted by Reuters, said there was no trading taking place until further notice.

"The rate is changing every second ... we are not taking in any rials to change to dollar or any other foreign currency" said Hamid Bakhshi in central Tehran.


That represents a more than 70% decline in just a month. Assuming that Iran trades its oil in dollars, this will not necessarily cripple its economy, but the specter of hyperinflation looms large whenever a currency falls by that much. With hyperinflation comes economic, social, and political instability, and these are, of course, precisely the aims of the US in imposing the sanctions.  And of course, everything that Iran imports will become hideously expensive -- quite rapidly.

The US is deliberately poking and prodding Iran right now. Given the glacial pace of nuclear development, we must ask ourselves, why now?

The Story

As with most things today, there is a story created for public consumption that justifies waging war against Iran. The main narrative goes something like this: Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons, and this is intolerable, so it must be stopped.

In November 2011, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) issued a report, long denied under the prior director's tenure (Mohamed ElBaradei), finally declaring that Iran was unequivocally trying to build a nuclear weapon:

U.N. Agency Says Iran Data Points to A-Bomb Work

November 8, 2011

United Nations weapons inspectors have amassed a trove of new evidence that they say makes a “credible” case that “Iran has carried out activities relevant to the development of a nuclear device,” and that the project may still be under way.

The long-awaited report, released by the International Atomic Energy Agency on Tuesday, represents the strongest judgment the agency has issued in its decade-long struggle to pierce the secrecy surrounding the Iranian program. The findings, drawn from evidence of far greater scope and depth than the agency has previously made public, have already rekindled a debate among the Western allies and Israel about whether increased diplomatic pressure, sanctions, sabotage or military action could stop Iran’s program.


I've not yet read the report, but I am concerned about the gap between the headlines I've seen that say Iran is building a nuclear bomb and carrying out "activities relevant to the development of a nuclear device."  For example, much has been recently made of the fact that Iran has enriched some uranium to the 20% grade, but there is a huge leap between that and the 90%+ grade needed for a nuclear device.  Iran had told the world it needed the 20% grade for a medical reactor, and then created a fuel rod for that reactor.  To say that enriching to the 20% grade is the same thing as trying to build a bomb is not accurate and possibly deceptive.

As a signatory to the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) treaty, Iran has every legal right to enrich uranium for peaceful purposes, such as making nuclear fuel rods for a research reactor, and Iran is claiming that all their current work is towards this end.

Maybe it is; maybe not. But even if a nuclear bomb is being pursued, there's nothing in the NPT that provides for military action to pre-emptively prevent any nation-state from carrying out such development work. In fact, if a preemptive strike is carried out, it will be done without the benefit of any international laws or treaties that could justify the action. 

Also left out of the narrative is any explanation of why it was okay for Pakistan to develop nuclear weapons or why North Korea is permitted to hold them.

The simple answer is because they don't have any oil. A quick view of the US military presence surrounding Iran, coupled with the Iraqi experience of being attacked for supposed weapons of mass destruction that did not exist (nor were used by Iraq to threaten the US), reveals why Iran may be so motivated to develop a nuclear weapon:

If Iraq had a nuclear weapon in 2002, it is quite doubtful the US would have invaded -- a lesson that has not gone unnoticed.

While I am not a supporter of the current repressive theocratic regime in Iran, I strongly believe that it is up to the people of any nation to decide for themselves what sort of system they will choose to live under. The Arab Spring, as messy as it was, is vastly preferable to the blunt instrument of an externally driven war. 

The Curiosity

The most curious thing about this story is the apparent lack of awareness among US officials about how the oil markets work. I know they know better, but the context-free repetitions in articles such as this next one almost literally drive me crazy:

Geithner to Seek China’s Support on Iran

Jan 9, 2012

U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner will urge Asia's two biggest economies to cut Iranian oil imports and seek to narrow differences with China on trade and currency disputes on a visit to Beijing and Tokyo this week.


The idea that the world can just stop buying Iranian oil, as though it were the same thing as boycotting McDonald's and buying Burger King instead, is just ridiculous. The world oil markets are far too tight for that.

How is it that China is supposed to cut its Iranian oil imports, exactly?  Oil is a fungible product. If China cuts its oil imports from Iran, it will simply have to buy the missing amount of oil from someplace else. The 2.6 million barrels a day that Iran exports cannot simply be instantly replaced at this time from other spare capacity elsewhere in the world. It doesn't exist at the moment. Where will it come from?

Perhaps Geithner is offering something behind the scenes, like providing China with extra petroleum from the US strategic reserve while events unfold (unlikely). But barring that, it is a remarkably naïve request as it stands and is curious on its own.

The Powder Keg

With the Persian Gulf being so small, and so many tense parties crammed into that tiny arena, the chance of some sort of mischief arising is quite high. One twitchy trigger finger -- such as the one that caused the USS Vincennes, thinking it was under attack by a jet fighter in 1988 during the Iran-Iraq war, to shoot down an Iranian passenger airliner -- and the hounds of war may be let loose.

And it's not just the US. Practically everybody who's anybody has naval assets positioned for whatever may happen next:

Western forces react to Iran's Strait of Hormuz threat

Jan 9, 2012

TEHRAN, Jan. 9 (UPI) -- A buildup of Western naval forces in the Persian Gulf and Arabian Sea is a reaction to Iran's threat to close the Strait of Hormuz, military experts say.

U.S., Russian, French and British air and naval forces moved to the Syrian and Iranian coasts during the weekend, Israeli military intelligence Web site DEBKAfile reported Monday.

The Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov anchored earlier than planned at Syria's Tartus port on the Mediterranean Sunday, causing France to respond by consigning an air defense destroyer to the waters off Tartus, DEBKAfile reported. Canada also was sending a warship, the HMCS Charlottetown, to the Mediterranean where it would take over from the HMCS Vancouver.

Meanwhile, Britain has dispatched a missile destroyer to the Sea of Oman, due to arrive at the same time as the French Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier.

And the U.S aircraft carrier John C. Stennis and its strike group are cruising in the Sea of Oman at the entrance to the Strait of Hormuz after Tehran announced it would not be allowed to cross through.


With all those boats chugging around in those little bathtubs, and with various other forces that would definitely like to see a shooting war develop (a false flag attack is an option here), the risk is quite high of some form of incident that would trigger hostilities.

Of course, there are those in the war rooms of the various OECD countries who think they have a plan for the conduct of that war, but no plan ever survives first contact with the enemy. The one thing we can count on is the war being messier, longer, and more expensive by at least a factor of two than whatever is currently occupying the minds of the war planners.

Iran's Responses

Of course, Iran has been none too happy over the years at being surrounded, poked, prodded, and now finally sanctioned for having done nothing more than cloak its nuclear program in the exact same sort of secrecy that has surrounded literally every other nation's nuclear programs, including Israel and Pakistan, Iran's notable nuclear neighbors.

And now, with the aid of enhanced missile technology obtained from China and Russia, Iran has a credible threat to make:

Iran Has Ability to Block Strait of Hormuz, U.S. General Dempsey Tells CBS

Jan 9, 2012

Iran has the ability to block the Strait of Hormuz “for a period of time,” and the U.S. would take action to reopen it, Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman General Martin Dempsey said.

“They’ve invested in capabilities that could, in fact, for a period of time block the Strait of Hormuz,” Dempsey said in an interview aired yesterday on the CBS “Face the Nation” program. “We’ve invested in capabilities to ensure that if that happens, we can defeat that.”

Should Iran try to close Hormuz, the U.S. “would take action and reopen” the waterway, said Dempsey, President Barack Obama’s top military adviser.


The admission here by the US military is that Iran has the ability to block the Strait of Hormuz "for a period of time," which they do, is an extraordinary admission (even if it really is stating the obvious) by the US brass.

Anti-ship missile technology has come a long way, and an offensive missile is much cheaper than either a large ship or defensive measures. The Falklands war in the early 1980s taught me that the navy is an outmoded concept if the opponent is armed with semi-decent anti-ship missiles, and such devices have improved remarkably since then.

During the most recent Iranian war exercises, the US military test-fired (more of a demonstration, really) their Qader anti-ship cruise missile, which has a range of 200 km and can be fired from a small truck. To visualize the difficulty of defending against such a technology, just imagine how many hiding places for a small truck might exist within this 200 km radius green circle :

In order to neutralize the entire missile, full air superiority would have to be established and every mobile launcher found and destroyed. 

Further, Iran has a number of submarines capable of firing a new breed of torpedo that can achieve speeds in excess of 200 knots. As far as I know, these are extraordinarily difficult to defend against, let alone evade. 

Of course, China is paying close attention to the developments:

Iranian authorities reiterate threats to close Hormuz Strait if sanctions imposed on oil exports

Jan 8, 2012

TEHRAN, Jan. 8 (Xinhua) -- Iranian authorities reiterated threats to close Strait of Hormuz if Western countries impose sanctions on Iran's oil exports, local media reported Sunday.



Once again, regrettably and mysteriously, we find the developed world in lock-step in its eagerness to attack Iran. "Regrettably," because Iran has not threatened any other country, and war should never be used simply because the current art of diplomacy is inadequate. "Mysteriously," because this is a particularly horrible economic moment to go about risking much higher oil prices. 

While we judge the risks of a war, either precipitated by legitimate escalation of frictions or by illegitimate actors seeking to cause the same, to be very high, it is our view that such a war will not go according to plan.  Iran has many more powerful allies, namely Russia and China, than did the extraordinarily isolated Iraq at the beginning of the Iraq war. 

Is it too waggish to suspect that certain Western political powers would love to be able to both divert attention from the crumbling economy and have a scapegoat upon which to blame the next leg of the financial downturn? 

Regardless of such speculation, the risk to each of us and the economy in general from an attack on Iran that closes the Strait of Hormuz is large enough to warrant your attention. Should oil spike in price, you can practically set an egg timer for the beginning of the next leg of the financial downturn.

In Part II: Are You Prepared for $200 Oil?, we explore what likely havoc the high oil prices from a major conflict with Iran will wreak on the financial markets and our petroleum-dependent lifestyle. We also detail specific steps prudent individuals should be taking right now, in advance of such a crisis, to position themselves defensively.

Click here to access Part II of this report (free executive summary, enrollment required for full access). 


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Wed, 01/11/2012 - 18:10 | 2056240 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

Iran better watch their next move because America is on RED ALERT. Israel will be protected at ALL COSTS, because they are a vital ally in the war on terror.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 18:24 | 2056293 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

my only regret is that I cannot junk your post 1 million times.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 18:27 | 2056301 drink or die
drink or die's picture

You do realize he is just trolling you right?


Good article though, summing up the situation thus far for anyone with more than a 5 second attention span.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:02 | 2056404 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Like the GOP candidates?

And by the way, Mitt has won!  He has won, because he won two primaries.  Count 'em!  Two.  He has captured 1/25th of America, and that is enough to take the cake.  That's what the news is saying, anyway.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:08 | 2056477 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture


Good effort from Ron Paul coming second to Romney. However, he has to seriously work on his credibility before he can expect to get the nomination. The public are rightfully appalled at his radical policies such as:

1. Ending the war on terror and endangering millions of innocent Americans

2. Giving children access to dangerous drugs

3. Interfering with Monetary Policy and impeding this fragile recovery when millions of Americans are facing tough economic circumstances


Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:13 | 2056498 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

You crack me up! Too funny...

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 23:17 | 2057211 economics1996
economics1996's picture

I do not understand the support for Iran.  These mother fucker religious freaks killed American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.  If that is not a act of war what the fuck is.

Let these towel headed mother fuckers fry to death in their own hyperinflation, let the people of Iran be free, let the people of Iran put these religious freaks heads on pikes all over Iran for the people to see.

And I am not a Zionist.  Fuck Israel, fuck the Zionist pigs.  Let Israel fight their wars.  Stop all foreign aid to Israel.  Zero aid to Israel

All I am saying is Iran has had a payback coming its fucking way ever since 1979, and the mother fuckers are getting it.  And the rest of you ZHers tighten the fuck up.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 23:19 | 2057212 economics1996
economics1996's picture

We lost good people because these mother fucker pig shit eating Iranians supported the insurgency.  These bastards can rot in hell.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 23:34 | 2057237 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Iran is simply a bishop in the global chess game of Real Politik being played by the Kremlin.  The Russians are grand masters at the game while Americans can hardly hold up in a game of checkers.




Thu, 01/12/2012 - 00:42 | 2057353 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Uh...the Soviets don't exist anymore

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:23 | 2057419 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

FYI- The side banner ad rotation was for your "dream Russian woman."

Hey baby...the dream is over but you are welcome to come to the country that helped destroy your parent 2 decades before it followed them into the gutter...for the same exact reason.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:32 | 2057432 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

For $2.99 the is a site that sells Bumper Stickers that say: I support what you said in response to Trav7777

I'm going to grin just a little about that one as I fall asleep.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 13:26 | 2058785 Hober Mallow
Hober Mallow's picture

A guy asks me:

Why shouldn't Iran have a nuclear weapon? Israel has it. Why does Israel think it needs a nuclear weapon and Iran doesn't. Why should Israel have nukes in the 1st place?

This guy, it seems to me, lacks imagination. Why shouldn't Iran have a nuclear weapon? Well, because it's an anti-democratic theocracy that menaces its neighbors, oppresses its own people, and calls for the destruction of another Middle Eastern state. It is profoundly anti-American, anti-Israel, and anti-Sunni. It is in the American national interest to see Iran denied nuclear weapons.  Nuclear weapons are dangerous. They are especially dangerous in the hands of totalitarian regimes, especially with fuck-heads like Ahmadineyad. These regimes should be discouraged from acquiring them, with ever-greater intensity.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 18:44 | 2060058's picture

It is in the American national interest to see Iran denied nuclear weapons.


The Pentagon says Iran has no such weapons. Sending our boys to die for a lie is not in America's interests. What country are you from?

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 03:10 | 2057517 BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture



Being on the hit list back home and officially considered traitor in Russia, Golytsin would be ready to say anything that appease Western fears towards Russia to justify his value. He has been out of the loop in terms of insider information within KGB ever since he defected, to suggest there was no change in strategy, especially post his defection is delusional. He might provide some insight as to the methods of KGB, but he is likely clueless as to the final goals, especially these days. Russia and China may cooperate, but sense of mutual distrust is rooted deeply in their relations and this is part of the reason Nixon was successful in bringing China closer to the West back in 70s.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 09:15 | 2057820 Betty Swallsack
Betty Swallsack's picture


There are more FEMALE serving soliders in China than the ENTIRE US population.  Wrap your noggin around that.  Now lets add into the mix; Russians, Iranians and Pakistanis.  Is war with Iran really worth it?

Then there is the fact that US debt is at an astronomical level and who, in their right mind, would fund such a senseless war that would see the US slip even deeper into the red?  There is already no escape from the current US debt level and the US doesn't want to/can't pay it's creditors already.   Then there is the other simple fact that, due to NAFTA, US manufacturing has been offshored and there would be no way to keep supply chains open after the bombing, er, WW3 starts up. 

Citing those facts, would it be any wonder that the shooting match would be started with the US using nukes in hopes of bringing a quick demise to any retaliation by all aforementioned nations?

Now, for your viewing pleasure....


Wed, 01/11/2012 - 23:44 | 2057254's picture

The Iraqi insurgents were mainly Sunnis. The government which the US installed in Iraq is Shiite. Iran is Shiite.  Iran is a natural ally of the Iraqi government, not the insurgents.

But don't let the facts confuse you.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 02:12 | 2057475 dubbleoj
dubbleoj's picture

uh, we lost good people cuz we've been fucking with them for a century

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 08:44 | 2057755 Betty Swallsack
Betty Swallsack's picture

Adding 'fuel' to econ1996's fire...

Did you know that by law the US guarantees israel's oil supply - no matter what?

...even if it causes US a DOMESTIC SHORTAGE???

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 04:58 | 2057579 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Why we aren't trading pistashios for whatever the fuck the US produces these days, I have no idea.


Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:14 | 2056499 fnord88
fnord88's picture

"2. Giving children access to dangerous drugs"


Not sure you can blame Ron paul for the pharmaceutical industry pushing Ritalin and Prozaic onto children.


Oh, you meant illegal drugs like marijuana? Can't have cheap, effective medicine that competes with big pharma now can we? I mean, marijuana doesn't even have a lobby group lining politicians pockets, which is obviously the best way to determine which drugs work best.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:15 | 2056511 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

He's ex-Navy phucker. BACK OFF!

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 20:34 | 2056744 SixFeetFromTheHedge
SixFeetFromTheHedge's picture

1. The war on terror is creating more terrorists than it murders. Why? Because terrorists don't just decide one day to blow themselves up, they have seen their mothers and fathers slain by the Americans and have nothing to lose but to get revenge.

2. Weed is not dangerous, go follow the example of Holland, where the crimes/suicide/depression/school flunk-out/prisoner rates are much much lower than in USA

3. Ron Paul is the ONLY one who can save the USA NOW by letting it slip into a recession so that USA can rebuild itself. If Ron Paul is not elected then USA is condemned to endure the painful heart-wrenching depression that eventually has to come (and sooner than you think)

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 22:07 | 2057022 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Behind the checks in your mouth and i won't cum in your mailbox.

The US war on terror  breeding terrorists comes in a close third in incredibly ludicrous myths.

Zero evidence, no present day or historical evidence in the slightest and given the incredibly juvenile train of thought, such offspring of lets say the Japanese should be of age to start launching banzai attacks anyday now. Not only were they targetted militarily but they were subjected to internment camps.

and likewise Holland has banned numerous strains of weed? Did they do that because of the benign effects?

and lastly, sure and Obama was the messiah last time.

supporting a guy who has not once limited the power of the government despite being there for an eternity.


Thu, 01/12/2012 - 02:23 | 2057483 dubbleoj
dubbleoj's picture

*cough IRAN-CONTRA cough!*

i do believe there are several pictures of brezinski chilling out with bin laden back in the day. perhaps to say, start a militant group?

and internment camps in the 1940's american country-side arent exactly the same as getting your jaw blown off by "humanitarian bombing" when your just a kid. gotta earn that nobel peace prize

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 00:43 | 2057355 trav7777
trav7777's picture

holland doesn't have many blacks, so they will necessarily have less people in jail and less crime than the USA

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 00:44 | 2057359's picture

The American justice system targets black disproportionately. Just ask Catherine Austin Fitts or Ron Paul. Take a conservative's word for it.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:07 | 2057395 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Actually, the Black Undertow is responsible for an enormous disproportion of the violent crime in America. That's why there's such a disproportion of blacks cycling thru the revolving door. Why? Black communities, Black families, Black values destroyed - purposefully - by the Jew welfare/illfare state. Its called: creating a captive group entitlement. Violent blacks function as anti-white stormtroopers. For example, each day an average of 100 white girls and women are variously raped, murdered, or raped and murdered by young black males. Reason you don't hear about it - cf. Knoxville Horror - is Jew media smothering the stories. But when a white man rapes or murders a black woman, it's coast-to-coast screaming headlines. Or would be, if it ever happened. Annual FBI stats on white-on-black rape: Zero (O). Of course, there's always the Duke Lacrosse players...oh, wait, that one didn't happen either.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:11 | 2057401's picture

It's not the Jews but the Democrats who have made the black population dependent on subsistence level welfare.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 16:16 | 2059529 MrTown3
MrTown3's picture

lol...just how little is your dick?

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 16:21 | 2059537 MrTown3
MrTown3's picture

well at least you and your wife have something in're obsessed with us...

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 23:16 | 2057209 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Dangerous drugs?  You mean like Vioxx, et al?  I would not lay that one on Ron Paul.  Would you like a nice warm can of STFU?

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 04:36 | 2057564 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Ron Paul doesn't have to win the election battle to win the war.

Ron Paul knows he will never shut down the Fed. Even North Korea's communist regime has a central bank. However, by taking such extreme views, he gets heard and he gets his message out: FED IS CORRUPT


Same with the whole election thing. Ron Paul is not approved by the establishment. But he is being heard now and is shaping the dialogue. He is reaching out to those who were ignorant and helping people get off of the Mass controlled Media and search for truths themselves. Ron Paul has already has won. He got millions of everyday Americans to THINK!


No matter who wins the election, an open educated mind cannot be reversed. Just like you and I were motivated to come to seek the truth on ZH, Ron Paul has installed the seeds of inquisition.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 09:12 | 2057816 ArgentDawn
ArgentDawn's picture

I dig your sarcasm, fear not...

LOL give children access to dangerous drugs? Yeah, because stealing my mom's xanax & ritalin was always so difficult.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 20:38 | 2056754 Hohum
Hohum's picture

Much less than 1/25th of America, as measured by registered voters.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 18:51 | 2056405 Hober Mallow
Hober Mallow's picture

I hope he is not. Israel is the last bastion of Western civilization (I meant civilization, period) in that part of the World. We need to defend them. We also need to secure the oil of the region and to keep arabs split between them so that the US can maintain a strong negotiation hand in the region.

An attack at this point becomes necessary. Lets try to get them to attack 1st so we get the right excuse to blow them away. No invasion required, just air superiority and infrastructure damage. The rest should be finished by Iran's own people that are already pissed off with the ayatollahs anyway.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:00 | 2056438's picture

And when you disagree with American politicians you wish that some foreign army would bomb the US for our freedom, right? I mean you do unto others as you would have them do unto you, don't you?

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:07 | 2056471 Hober Mallow
Hober Mallow's picture

When you disagree with politicians in America, you vote them out. That is one of the niceties of the West. No need to bomb anything.

Dont equate the West to the rest of the world. You can't, its not the fckn same thing.

Accept that there are qualitative advantages. Don't be affraid to say "better" ... "we are better", you can say it, its a free society that allows you to think and say it. It may sound politically incorrect in this weakened culture but it is not: we are better.


Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:16 | 2056519 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

You do realize that you are muscling in on MillionDollarBonus's territory!

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 20:03 | 2056662 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

A  thoughtful article like this (thanks for reminding us all of that medaled Vincennes captain who shot down the scheduled IranAir flight to Dubai) and the AIPAC trolls come out in force. 

Hey, what's the pay-per-word?

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 21:13 | 2056868 Yousif
Yousif's picture

The pay is actually surprisingly good.  Here's a glimpse:

Israeli students to get $2,000 to spread state propaganda on Facebook


Thu, 01/12/2012 - 04:34 | 2057562 Hober Mallow
Hober Mallow's picture

thats much better than promising virgins in ayatollah heavens!

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 05:03 | 2057583 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

My hope for Israeli propagandists is exactly the same as my hope for myself.

I hope that we will all get exactly what we deserve, and soon.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 02:43 | 2057502 Demologos
Demologos's picture

Thanks for noticing.  Looking downthread, it is hasbara night for sure!  They are itching for a ZH-style ass-whupin'.  If we don't tolerate the phony right-left paradigm pushers, why should we put up with AIPAC jack-offs? 

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 04:52 | 2057575 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Ironically, victory over Iran would mean loss of US support for Israel.


Iran colonialization would give US complete control over the Middle East. US would no longer need a base in Israel to stage another offensive. US would leave Israel behind for they no longer serve any purpose.



Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:17 | 2056520's picture

I'm not afraid to say that I'm a far better and more intelligent person than you are. Proud of me?

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:18 | 2056525 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Sometimes we need to bomb things as well. Still...your sentiment is much appreciated!

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:28 | 2056559's picture

Sometimes we need to bomb things as well.


Then expect others to feel the same way and target you back.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 23:53 | 2057269 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Like the USS Cole or maybe the first WTC attack?

or maybe the African embassy, or one of the disco bombings,

or the endless list of others?

How many attacks did Al Qaeda target the US exactly over how many decades before there was something beyond some missiles landing in dirt in the Bekkah Valley as a response?

Uh yea.


Thu, 01/12/2012 - 00:05 | 2057281's picture

The FBI's own mole said that the FBI ordered him to build and plant the bomb in the World Trade Center in 1993.



Emad A. Salem is an FBI informant, who was a key witness in the trial of Ramzi Yousef, Abdul Hakim Murad, and Wali Khan Amin Shah, convicted in the World Trade Center Bombing of February 26, 1993.


Claim that the FBI knew about the bombing

The below is a transcript from part of one of the recordings Emad A. Salem made of a telephone conversation he had with one of his FBI handlers, FBI Special Agent John Anticev (MP3: [1][2]):

FBI Special Agent John Anticev: But, uh, basically nothing has changed. I'm just telling you for my own sake that nothing, that this isn't a salary, that it's—you know. But you got paid regularly for good information. I mean the expenses were a little bit out of the ordinary and it was really questioned. Don't tell Nancy I told you this. [Nancy Floyd is another FBI Special Agent who worked with Emad A. Salem in his informant capacity.]
FBI undercover agent Emad A. Salem: Well, I have to tell her of course.
Anticev: Well then, if you have to, you have to.
Salem: Yeah, I mean because the lady was being honest and I was being honest and everything was submitted with a receipt and now it's questionable.
Anticev: It's not questionable, it's like a little out of the ordinary.
Salem: Okay. Alright. I don't think it was. If that's what you think guys, fine, but I don't think that because we was start already building the bomb which is went off in the World Trade Center. It was built by supervising supervision from the Bureau and the D.A. and we was all informed about it and we know that the bomb start to be built. By who? By your confidential informant. What a wonderful, great case!
Anticev: Well.
Salem: And then he put his head in the sand and said "Oh, no, no, that's not true, he is son of a bitch." [Deep breath.] Okay. It's built with a different way in another place and that's it.
Anticev: No, don't make any rash decisions. I'm just trying to be as honest with you as I can.
Salem: Of course, I appreciate that.
Anticev: And as far as the payments go, and everything like that, they're there. I guarantee you that they are there.
Thu, 01/12/2012 - 00:30 | 2057326 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

I read a CIA mole who said he was behind the USS Cole attack too.

Someone posted that Mossad was behind the US Embassy attack,

and the disco attacks  were just locals as well.

The US government was behind 9/11,

amazing stuff! Since the invasion in Iraq hinged on finding WMDS one would think they would have just planted them there since they were behind so much of this other stuff anyway.


Absent the US, the middle east would just be a bastion of human ingenuity like it was hundreds of years ago once again-just ask one of the delusionals on ZH. Just make sure to query one of the self loathers, the ones who believe although the US has substantially raised the quality of life of most of humanity that somehow without the US ever existing the world would be a better place.\

In simple engligh find one of the morons who believes the US always has it coming.







Thu, 01/12/2012 - 00:35 | 2057338's picture

So now you're saying that you don't believe the FBI's own operative and that the US government used a liar as a key witness against Ramzi Yousef. How does that help your case?

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 04:03 | 2057542 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

The case of ever escalating Al Qaeda attacks over decades and multiple presidential administrations culminating in 9/11?

That case? That is over and done with already. It is obvious that it happened,

and no amount of revisionist history is going to change that.

Take out the '93 attack if you wish to be delusional, it changes nothing.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 06:25 | 2057630 Fred C Dobbs
Fred C Dobbs's picture

The CIA created Al Qaeda.  Learn, we need you on our side.



Thu, 01/12/2012 - 00:11 | 2057302 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Ever get your reflexes tested?   The doc hits your knee with that little rubber hammer.   Stimulus... response.   The U. S. is the rubber hammer.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 03:21 | 2057516 Element
Element's picture

How many attacks did Al Qaeda target the US exactly over how many decades before there was something beyond some missiles landing in dirt in the Bekkah Valley as a response?

You might want to consider the context of the times preceding that, it was called the cold-war, and it was a bi-polar amalgam of client states, propped up by the respective superpowers, which clients were little more than pawns in the global game of resource access via ideological control and fear.

The USA and Europe supplied vast amounts of advanced weapons to the IDF for many decades.

The IDF dominated the Arabs, and slaughtered countless thousands with these weapons, and bombed numerous civilian sites, like power stations and vital economic infrastructure, and slaughtered thousands in massive unpunished war crimes in Lebanon, especially after 1981.

The Arabs got a bit cranky at all this--Iran in particular got right uppity about it all, and determined to punish the Israeli Client and the weaponiser superpower, who was directly supporting and enabling all of the butchery that the client weapon and money recipient state was involved in inflicting on them.

They looked up stream of the of bombs and saw Washington.

Yet they did nothing to America itself ... well, almost nothing, ... but occasionally they did respond in some comparitively small way.

And good for them.

Because the US and NATO certainly deserved it and got off far too lightly, which simply encouraged them to keep doing it all the more.

The 80s, 90's and 00's have been an ever rising level of aggression from Israel and Washington, and it is high time this was bought to an ignominious end.  Iran has been warning all along, that one day it would do just that, that the blow-back process would finally smack Washington in the forehead, with an Iranian 4-by-2.

That time has arrived.

So enjoy the technicolour death-trip as your wet-dreams of endless global carnage and rotting corpses comes true.

Probably not as you supposed though.

If it helps think of it as karma-- you did shit that you now have to pay for ... its going to take awhile to work it off.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 03:58 | 2057539 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture


The US deserves what it gets, it has it coming.

Just like it did on 9/11 and will undoubtedly in the future.

When the world stops hating the USA will be the time to start worrying and not a day sooner.

As far as the domestically located self loathers, just fucking move already.

If I believed for a millisecond my government  and my tax money was behind some attack like 9/11 or the other whackjob theories like behind the first WTC attack or any other similar atrocities,

I would move.



Thu, 01/12/2012 - 07:34 | 2057660 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

If I believed for a millisecond my government  and my tax money was behind some attack like 9/11 or the other whackjob theories like behind the first WTC attack or any other similar atrocities,  I would move.

I would stay, and stand up for the truth.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 22:05 | 2057020 The Alsatian
The Alsatian's picture

"Vote them out" - and what is the incumbent re-election rate again?

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 07:18 | 2057652 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

When you disagree with politicians in America, you vote them out.

What if there were people with the magical ability to create arbitrary amounts of money out of nothing?  So that they could pay politicians any sum necessary to obtain their devotion?  So that they could control both political parties, and suppress any attempt at breaking out of their chosen paradigm?  So that they could control all political discussion and commentary in the mainstream media?

Then what would it matter that we voted out the politicians who served that evil?  Their replacements would be just the same.

But please take note: tyrants have ruled, and attempted to rule America before. 

They are all dead, and we are still here.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:05 | 2056446 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

"Israel is the last bastion of Western civilization (I meant civilization, period) in that part of the World. We need to defend them."


Do you work for this organization?

Here, why don't you go and educate yourself about that "bastion of civilization" known as Israel:

Plenty of information available here:

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:19 | 2056491 Hober Mallow
Hober Mallow's picture

Those sites are full of Palestinian propaganda. Israel is a democracy, a recognized country by the UN, has a historical right to be there, has been attacked and occupied territories in compensation for the losses it incured as a consequence of those wars.

Israel has every right to defend its borders and its occupied territories. It also has the right to retaliate upon any attacks, on its land or citizens.

Mistakes are made of course, but the facts are the facts.


Just answer yourself the following question:

If you had to live in the Middle East, with your family (wife, daughters, sisters, gay brother, openly atheist uncle, nun aunt, etc) where would you rather live?

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:20 | 2056535's picture

Define "its occupied terrorities." I was under the impression that if you have to occupy land inhabited by other people that it isn't really yours.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:28 | 2056563 Hober Mallow
Hober Mallow's picture

its called war damage compensation and its a bargaining chip that can be used to enter long-term peace negotiations and to earn recognition from other countries in the region.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 20:00 | 2056645's picture

But Israel waged war on the Palestinians to take their land. So any compensation would rightly go to the Palestinians.


"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." -- Moshe Dayan, April 1969, Ha'aretz

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 23:50 | 2057265 frostfan
frostfan's picture

War on the Palestinians?  Was it declared?   Who was the leader of this Palestine?  What was the currency?   No leader, no currency but a war was declared on these people?

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 00:12 | 2057303's picture

There was no Israeli state or currency until after the Zionist terror groups attacked the British and the Palestinians and forced them out so by your own criteria the Israelis are an invented people. You did know that the Zionist terrorists massacred British citizens, Arabs and Jews didn't you?


King David Hotel Bombing




Stern Gang




Why do you support terrorism?

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 07:28 | 2057656 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

War on the Palestinians?  Was it declared?   Who was the leader of this Palestine?  What was the currency?

If there is one more plague on Israel, it is by your word that God will bring it.
Then there shall so great a cry throughout the land, that you shall surely let my people go.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 20:26 | 2056722 john39
john39's picture

i call it digging yourself an ever deepening hole...  good luck.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:21 | 2056540 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Normally, I don't enable copycats..., but you're good.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:38 | 2056596 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture


Oh please. Judging by your posts, one thing is very obvious: You wouldn't recognize a fact if it came up behind you and fucked you in the ass.

You are a clueless, brainwashed idiot.

I'm done with you.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 20:01 | 2056654 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

and down with America the crowd jeered in response.

But I can assure the world the Iranian people love the American people it is just it's leaders they hate. I read it on the internets posted by some arabcockloving POS Eurotrash so it must be so.


Fucking cavemen who oppress the shit out of half their population, you know the ones with cunts between their legs such as yourself.



Wed, 01/11/2012 - 22:49 | 2057149 piceridu
piceridu's picture

BTW, Iranians are not Arabs

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 23:22 | 2057216's picture


Fucking cavemen who oppress the shit out of half their population, you know the ones with cunts between their legs such as yourself.


American Girl Target of Extremist Jews in Israel

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 00:08 | 2057285 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

WOW I had no clue the Jews oppress the crap out of half of their people?

As far as I knew Jews like most of the western world do not believe half their populations are born inferior and should be oppressed merely because they weren't born with a penis.

Should I post some graphic pics of caveman and their atrocities regarding female genetalia mutiliation?

or can we just go with it is out there for anyone who wishes to see it.

or maybe just some old fashion women beating? That way I could avoid the extremist label,

and just say look at the social law of the caveman.


Thu, 01/12/2012 - 00:19 | 2057316's picture

You want to talk about genital mutilation?


Rabbi probed for circumcised infants' herpes


City health officials are investigating the death of a baby boy who was one of three infants to contract herpes after a rabbi circumcised them.

Ten days after Rabbi Yitzhok Fischer performed religious circumcisions on twins last October, one died of herpes and the other tested positive for the virus, according to a complaint filed by the health department in Manhattan Supreme Court.

The complaint, reported in Wednesday’s edition of the New York Daily News, also said health officials later found a third baby who had contracted herpes after being circumcised by Fischer in late 2003.

Under Jewish law, a mohel — someone who performs circumcisions — draws blood from the circumcision wound. Most mohels do it by hand with a suction device, but Fischer uses a practice rare outside strict Orthodox groups where he uses his mouth to draw blood after cutting the foreskin.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 00:42 | 2057351 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Not really but since you seem  persistant with the idiotic extremist copy pastes,

why not?

Oh to be born a cavewomen, may be lucky enough to have your pussy sowed shut.

I will refrain from posting pics as they are fairly sickening.

But who cares, the US is the devil, and if not for the US,

the middle east would be a bastion of human ingenuity launching the human race forward,

sowed pussies and all.

Female Genital Mutilation (FGM)
The purpose of FGM is to curb the sexual desire of girls and women and preserve their "sexual honor" before marriage. The massive mutilation is irreversible and extremely painful, and is usually done to young girls.

in Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Oman, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia, Djibouti, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, amongst others, FGM is carried out with knives, scissors, scalpels, pieces of glass or razor blades. The mutilation is usually done without anesthetics. Instruments are usually not sterile. Mortality is high.

The practice has dreadful costs: many girls die afterwards, the survivors suffer their whole life from the psychological and medical consequences of the operation. All are traumatized and suffer from adverse health effects during marriage and pregnancy.

Type I female genital mutilation,
from American Academy of Pediatrics, PEDIATRICS Vol. 102 No. 1 Jul 1998, pp. 153-156:

"Type I FGM, often termed clitorectomy, involves excision of the skin surrounding the clitoris with or without excision of part or all of the clitoris (Fig 2). When this procedure is performed in infants and young girls, a portion of or all of the clitoris and surrounding tissues may be removed. If only the clitoral prepuce is removed, the physical manifestation of Type I FGM may be subtle, necessitating a careful examination of the clitoris and adjacent structures for recognition."





Type II female genital mutilation,
from American Academy of Pediatrics, PEDIATRICS Vol. 102 No. 1 Jul 1998, pp. 153-156:

"Type II FGM, referred to as excision, is the removal of the entire clitoris and part or all of the labia minora. Crude stitches of catgut or thorns may be used to control bleeding from the clitoral artery and raw tissue surfaces, or mud poultices may be applied directly to the perineum. Patients with Type II FGM do not have the typical contour of the anterior perineal structures resulting from the absence of the labia minora and clitoris. The vaginal opening is not covered in the Type II procedure."


Type III female genital mutilation,
American Academy of Pediatrics, PEDIATRICS Vol. 102 No. 1 Jul 1998, pp. 153-156:

"Type III FGM, known as infibulation, is the most severe form in which the entire clitoris and some or all of the labia minora are excised, and incisions are made in the labia majora to create raw surfaces. The labial raw surfaces are stitched together to cover the urethra and vaginal introitus, leaving a small posterior opening for urinary and menstrual flow. In Type III FGM, the patient will have a firm band of tissue replacing the labia and obliteration of the urethra and vaginal openings."


Type IV female genital mutilation,
American Academy of Pediatrics, PEDIATRICS Vol. 102 No. 1 Jul 1998, pp. 153-156:

"Type IV includes different practices of variable severity including pricking, piercing or incision of the clitoris and/or labia; stretching of the clitoris and/or labia; cauterization of the clitoris; and scraping or introduction of corrosive substances into the vagina.

The physical complications associated with FGM may be acute or chronic. Early, life-threatening risks include hemorrhage, shock secondary to blood loss or pain, local infection and failure to heal, septicemia, tetanus, trauma to adjacent structures, and urinary retention.13,14 Infibulation (Type III) is often associated with long-term gynecologic or urinary tract difficulties. Common gynecologic problems involve the development of painful subcutaneous dermoid cysts and keloid formation along excised tissue edges. More serious complications include pelvic infection, dysmenorrhea, hematocolpos, painful intercourse, infertility, recurrent urinary tract infection, and urinary calculus formation. Pelvic examination is difficult or impossible for women who have been infibulated, and vaginal childbirth requires an episiotomy to avoid serious vulvar lacerations.

Less well-understood are the psychological, sexual, and social consequences of FGM, because little research has been conducted in countries where the practice is endemic. However, personal accounts by women who have had a ritual genital procedure recount anxiety before the event, terror at being seized and forcibly held during the event, great difficulty during childbirth, and lack of sexual pleasure during intercourse."

Stop female genital mutilation: appeal to the international dermatologic community (International Journal of Dermatology 2002, 41, 253-263

Related information:
Subjugation of Women and Child Abuse
Genocide, Slavery, Female Genital Mutilation (FGM)
Egypt (member of Arab League)
Syria (member of Arab League)
Jordan (member of Arab League)
Oman (member of Arab League)
Sudan (member of Arab League)
Somalia (member of Arab League)
Yemen (member of Arab League)
Mauritania (member of Arab League)
Djibouti (member of Arab League)
Iraq (member of Arab League)
Saudi Arabia (member of Arab League)
Islamic Republic of Iran

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 00:47 | 2057363 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

BTW thanks for the effort.

I have since learned they still stone women to death for adultery,

execute teenagers for adultery,

flog gay people,

and they used 10yos to clear minefields during the Iraq/Iran war.

Wonderful place if I wasn't born in the US,

I wish it was in caveman land.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 00:58 | 2057381's picture

Why are you so afraid that "cavemen" will build a nuclear weapon? Doesn't that cause a bit of cognitive dissonance in that bumpy old skull of yours? And you still won't say what country you come from or why you call the US military liars. Where do your allegiances lie and why do you want more American boys to die for nothing?


You'll enjoy this:

Disturbing images from Iran you rarely see

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:08 | 2057396 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Why are you so confident they won't?

Left up to folks like you, Lincoln would never have sent US boys to kill other US boys and the US could be two countries now.

More Americans died from gun inflicted homicides in NYC, LA and CHIC during the two wars than did in the war zones.

Maybe it was Sun Tzu who imparted the import of dictating venue maybe not,

but blowing themselves up vs trained volunteers half a world away is far preferable than on Main St USA. Which has not taken place since 9/11/01 and that is not due to the domestic government efforts or because the cavemen love the US all of a sudden.


Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:14 | 2057406's picture

The Pentagon and all US intelligence agencies agree unanimously with "high confidence" that Iran has no nukes and no nuke program. From what foreign source are you getting your information?

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:26 | 2057424 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Citing The Pentagon and all US intelligence agency's  public material as authoritative is hilarious even for a self loathing misinformation bot such as yourself.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:56 | 2057459's picture

Why do you believe that objecting to your lies makes me self loathing? I like myself quite a bit when I stand up for truth, justice and the American way. You're the one who is ashamed to admit what country you come from.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:05 | 2057371's picture

You can't post pics without the proper permission from Tyler. I'll bet you don't have that permission, so what are you on about?

But you might enjoy reading this:


Eugenics in the United States


Compulsory sterilization

In 1907, Indiana passed the first eugenics-based compulsory sterilization law in the world. Thirty U.S. states would soon follow their lead.[44][45] Although the law was overturned by the Indiana Supreme Court in 1921,[46] the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of a Virginia law allowing for the compulsory sterilization of patients of state mental institutions in 1927.[47]

Some states sterilized "imbeciles" for much of the 20th century. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the 1927 Buck v. Bell case that the state of Virginia could sterilize those it thought unfit. Although compulsory sterilization is now considered an abuse of human rights, Buck v. Bell was never overturned, and Virginia did not repeal its sterilization law until 1974.[48] The most significant era of eugenic sterilization was between 1907 and 1963, when over 64,000 individuals were forcibly sterilized under eugenic legislation in the United States.[49] Beginning around 1930, there was a steady increase in the percentage of women sterilized, and in a few states only young women were sterilized. From 1930 to the 1960s, sterilizations were performed on many more institutionalized women than men.[25] By 1961, 61 percent of the 62,162 total eugenic sterilizations in the United States were performed on women.[25] A favorable report on the results of sterilization in California, the state with the most sterilizations by far, was published in book form by the biologist Paul Popenoe and was widely cited by the Nazi government as evidence that wide-reaching sterilization programs were feasible and humane.[50][51]

Men and women were compulsorily sterilized for different reasons. Men were sterilized to treat their aggression and to eliminate their criminal behavior, while women were sterilized to control the results of their sexuality.[52] Since women bore children, eugenicists held women more accountable than men for the reproduction of the less “desirable” members of society.[25] Eugenicists therefore predominately targeted women in their efforts to regulate the birth rate, to “protect” white racial health, and weed out the “defectives” of society.[25]

A 1927 Fortune magazine poll found that 2/3 of respondents supported eugenic sterilization of "mental defectives", 63% supported sterilization of criminals, and only 15% opposed both.[53]

Although the following events were not explicitly justified through the by-now-discredited eugenics movement, they certainly fit the older pattern. In 1970’s, several activists and women’s rights groups discovered several physicians to be performing coerced sterilizations of specific ethnic groups of society. All were abuses of poor, nonwhite, or mentally retarded women, while no abuses against white or middle-class women were recorded.[54]

For example, in 1972, United States Senate committee testimony brought to light that at least 2,000 involuntary sterilizations had been performed on poor black women without their consent or knowledge. An investigation revealed that the surgeries were all performed in the South, and were all performed on black welfare mothers with multiple children. Testimony revealed that many of these women were threatened with an end to their welfare benefits until they consented to sterilization.[55] These surgeries were instances of sterilization abuse, a term applied to any sterilization performed without the consent or knowledge of the recipient, or in which the recipient is pressured into accepting the surgery. Because the funds used to carry out the surgeries came from the U.S. Office of Economic Opportunity, the sterilization abuse raised older suspicions, especially amongst the black community, that “federal programs were underwriting eugenicists who wanted to impose their views about population quality on minorities and poor women.”[25]

Native American women were also victims of sterilization abuse up into the 1970s.[56] The organization WARN (Women of All Red Nations) publicized that Native American women were threatened that, if they had more children, they would be denied welfare benefits. The Indian Health Service also repeatedly refused to deliver Native American babies until their mothers, in labor, consented to sterilization. Many Native American women unknowingly gave consent, since directions were not given in their native language. According to the General Accounting Office, an estimate of 3,406 Indian women were sterilized.[56] The General Accounting Office stated that the Indian Health Service had not followed the necessary regulations, and that the “informed consent forms did not adhere to the standards set by the United States Department of Health, Education, and Welfare (HEW).”[57]

Euthanasia programs

One of the methods that was commonly suggested to get rid of "inferior" populations was euthanasia. A 1911 Carnegie Institute report mentioned euthanasia as one of its recommended "solutions" to the problem of cleansing society of unfit genetic attributes. The most commonly suggested method was to set up local gas chambers. However, many in the eugenics movement did not believe that Americans were ready to implement a large-scale euthanasia program, so many doctors had to find clever ways of subtly implementing eugenic euthanasia in various medical institutions. For example, a mental institution in Lincoln, Illinois fed its incoming patients milk infected with tuberculosis (reasoning that genetically fit individuals would be resistant), resulting in 30-40% annual death rates. Other doctors practiced eugenicide through various forms of lethal neglect.[58]

In the 1930s, there was a wave of portrayals of eugenic "mercy killings" in American film, newspapers, and magazines. In 1931, the Illinois Homeopathic Medicine Association began lobbying for the right to euthanize "imbeciles" and other defectives. The Euthanasia Society of America was founded in 1938.[59]

Overall, however, euthanasia was marginalized in the U.S., motivating people to turn to forced segregation and sterilization programs as a means for keeping the "unfit" from reproducing.[60]


Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:14 | 2057404 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Precisely caveman implies significantly behind modern times, would be why you posted  dated material.

all in some futile juvenile effort in some kind of perverse support for caveman to continue to oppress half his population.

instead of just agreeing it is ludicrous lets post some extremist jew links and some outdated material about the US practices of years ago.

Good job.

Stick to the IRan is not pursuing nukes stuff, it is much more entertaining.

and BTW I have posted pics before so either the block wasn't working or wasn't set up yet.



Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:18 | 2057411's picture

So now you say that America was inhabited by cavemen until 1974. And you continue to call the US military liars when they assert that Iran has no bomb. And you still won't say what country you come from or whose agenda you are promoting.

Do you really believe that you can cause Americans to be disloyal to our own nation through your anonymous postings?

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:23 | 2057421 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

So now you say female genital mutialation is OK because it was done in the US at some point in the distant past?

And you continue to assert everyone leave their brain at the door and believe that Iran is not only not pursuing nukes but has no interest in ever pursuing nukes.

Do you really believe that you can cause Americans to be disloyal to their own country through your anonymous internet postings?


Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:30 | 2057429's picture

I'm saying that one should not bomb people to death in order to protect their freedom. America has made mistakes but we try to overcome them. We didn't bomb Virginia for sexually mutilating men and women and we shouldn't indiscriminatly bomb Muslims for that reason either.

Give it up. America is done sending our boys to bleed for your lies. Let the other folks in your country -- whatever it is -- know that, too.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 04:15 | 2057550 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Right, because the Iraq invasion was not about dictating venue to a bunch of maniacal blow themselves up America hating malcontents who interrupted people's freedoms when the airlines were shut down 9/12 it was about WMDS, cheap oil, pro Israel or some other stupid ass shit.

Maybe at some point you and the rest will WTFU all at once.

Maybe there was no link between Saddam and 9/11 but the same folks blowing themselves up against trained military personel halfway around the globe are the ones who would have been blowing themselves up vs western interests elsewhere absent the invasion.

At some point maybe you will actually live somewhere that terror is a real thing and not a government joke used to create more government but I hope for you sake not.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 18:48 | 2060071's picture

The fact is Iran has no bomb. The rest is bullshit. America is not your bitch, comrade.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 03:52 | 2057528 Element
Element's picture


Xkwisetly Paneful  Not really but since you seem  persistant with the idiotic extremist copy pastes,

why not? ...


Dude, you forgot this one!


Elizabeth Dilling - MP3 audio book download:

I find it just cuts though all that tedious joo 'rational' excuse making and the defense of the indefensible, shit-speiling.

Hope it helps

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:29 | 2057428 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

They especially love the gay americans if they could just get their hands on them to get some flogging in all would be well.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 02:49 | 2057509 Demologos
Demologos's picture

Hmmm.  It looks like -25 is the down-arrow limit.  Sort of like a mercy call at a little league game when the score is 20 to 2.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 02:52 | 2057513 dubbleoj
dubbleoj's picture

you think the west is so perfect? Greece forced to buy $15 Billion worth of weapons with bail-out funds while its people give up their babies because they cant afford them? Thats not oppression? Creating a society of Walmart employees and burger-flippers with PhD's is not oppression? Being taxed up the ass to fund a global banking cartel that cannabalizes its constituents and even its own workforce is not oppression? Sure its not a burqa or niqab, but your still sucking the man's dick. you must not read this site much and see what is happening EVERYWHERE. 

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 03:53 | 2057536 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Think the west is perfect? Where is that posted?

Really? Comparing third world oppression to having to actually work for a living?

All may not be rosy and whatever, but you still live in the land of opportunity,

people barely speaking the language with lint in their pockets die immigrating to the US and many become successful, tax paying small business owners. Opportunity that would not be afforded to them anywhere else on the entire planet.



Thu, 01/12/2012 - 08:28 | 2057722 Savvy
Savvy's picture
Women Barred From Speaking At Gynecological Conference in Israel Due Pressure From Orthodox Jewish Groups


A conference on “Innovations in Gynecology/Obstetrics and Halacha [Jewish law]” will be held this week to discuss such things as “how to choose a suitable contraceptive pill” but women will be barred as speakers. Bowing to ultra-Orthodox Jewish leaders in Israel, the Puah Institute has barred female speakers and ordered that women are to be segregated in female-only areas.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 23:35 | 2057241 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Just answer this question HM:  Why do you have to live in any given place?

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 00:54 | 2057370 logically possible
logically possible's picture


Thu, 01/12/2012 - 05:09 | 2057587 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Israel is a democracy, a recognized country by the UN, has a historical right to be there, has been attacked and occupied territories in compensation for the losses it incured as a consequence of those wars.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 23:10 | 2057199 EINSILVERGUY


and while you're elightining me, explain how Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah are just social groups totally unfunded by the Iranians and with the intent of helping the Israelis take a stroll to the waters of the Med so they can show them how to perpetually swim.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 23:26 | 2057221's picture
How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 00:53 | 2057369 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Yes absent Israel, Palestine would be a wonderful thriving area.

Ironic how Arafat died with billions while the Pals starved and how none of their wealthy oil brothers ever help them out.

But absent Israel and more importantly the US, the middle east would be a bastion of human ingenuity again like  it was hundreds of years ago.

Just ask one of the pro cavemen ball danglers at ZH.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:07 | 2057394's picture

Why do you so desperately want to kill innocent people? And why do you want the US military which says Iran has no nukes to send our boys to die for your lies?

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:17 | 2057412 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Where did I post that I want  the US military to send your boys to die for me?

BTW it was obvious all along you are a yank, no one spews good yank and jew hate better than the self loathing yanks. 

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:21 | 2057415's picture

Right. I am showing that I hate America by listening to the professionals at the Pentagon and US intelligence services. Now let's hear a little more detail about the foreign power which you serve.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 08:00 | 2057677 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Just ask one of the pro cavemen ball danglers at ZH.

Referring to Palestinians as cavemen is an anti-semitic remark. 

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:32 | 2056573 Beard of Zeus
Beard of Zeus's picture

Israel is a decadent sh*t-hole and consumerist colony, compared to the authentic, traditional societies in the Middle East.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:34 | 2056584 Beard of Zeus
Beard of Zeus's picture

You sound like Hasbara.

[Israeli internet troll]

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 20:49 | 2056775 Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

Great analysis Hober - so can we expect to see you on the front lines of the invastion force?  Or are you way ahead of me & already "fighting for my freedom" at one of the hundreds of US military installations around the world?

My guess is no to both questions.  You are either a typical keyboard commando (read: too much of a pussy to put his money where is mouth is) or a very bad troll.  In sum, piss off nitwit.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 22:40 | 2057121 escargot
escargot's picture

You're just joking, right?


Wed, 01/11/2012 - 18:59 | 2056433 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

More than a 5 second attention span is a tall order now a days. But luckily...many of the few that have an attention span of >5seconds can be found here on ZH often.

At least we've got that much going for us.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 08:29 | 2057728 Betty Swallsack
Betty Swallsack's picture

Rumour?  Conjecture?

Readies for War On Iran: US Builds Military Hospitals in Georgia 

The United States is sponsoring the construction of facilities in Georgia on the threshold of a military conflict in Iran, a member of the Georgian opposition movement Public Assembly, Elizbar Javelidze has stated.

“These are 20-bed hospitals...It’s an American project. A big war between the US and Iran is beginning in the Persian Gulf. $5 billion was allocated for the construction of these 20-bed military hospitals,” Javelidze said in an interview with Georgian paper Kviris Kronika (News of the Week), as cited by Newsgeorgia website.


Javelidze believes that it is all linked to the deployment of US military bases on the Georgian soil. Lazika – one of Saakashvili’s mega-projects, a new city that will be built from a scratch – will be “an American military town”. According to the politician, “a secret airdrome” has already been erected in the town of Marneuli, southern Georgia.


Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:01 | 2056441 rocker
rocker's picture

I don't why you would want to junk him.

I took it to be sarcastic on what many NeoCons want you to believe and how the government wants you to think.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 21:11 | 2056856 midtowng
midtowng's picture

It's even worse than this essay would indicate. America is funding terrorist groups that attack Iran. Even islamic terrorist groups.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 18:28 | 2056308 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

@ MillionDollarBonehead,

-Minus Infinity. 

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:01 | 2056440 Hober Mallow
Hober Mallow's picture

We are the world, we are the people...

So fckn politically correct everyone around here.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:14 | 2056504 Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

No,you are the troll.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:21 | 2056541 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Still...what Heart! It moves me...

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 21:11 | 2056860 Milestones
Milestones's picture

"We are of the world"--Any that any of others have heard of??       Milestones

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 18:32 | 2056322 Golden Boy
Golden Boy's picture

"war on terror". You keep believing that, sheep.  People in the UK call their soldiers heroes. There's nothing heroic about getting paid to torture farmers in the middle east.


Wouldn't you be fucking pissed if the Canadian army set up a road block in front of your house? You think about that, asshole.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 18:44 | 2056377 Jena
Jena's picture

Or how Americans would feel about Chinese troops in Texas, as this Ron Paul ad proposes:

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 18:57 | 2056425 Hober Mallow
Hober Mallow's picture

The problem is that you are putting makind at the same level. It is not. The Western civilization is superior and that is why we have the right to throw our weight around.

You can't keep our way of living by being nice in a savage world.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:02 | 2056450's picture

There's plenty of savage crime right here in America. How many of your neighbors have you pre-emptively attacked?

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:15 | 2056508 Hober Mallow
Hober Mallow's picture

I don't have nuked hostile neighbours. Savage crime in America goes to prison, do you need the prison population stats of America?

By the way, homicide in America is at an all time low.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:24 | 2056546's picture

But Iran doesn't have a nuke. The Pentagon says so.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:29 | 2056567 Hober Mallow
Hober Mallow's picture

Pentagon = International Atomic Energy Agency?

Since when?

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 20:05 | 2056666's picture

No. The Pentagon. You know -- the guys who protect America. You can go running to the IAEA -- an "international agency" -- for your information if you like but as an American I have more trust in American intelligence.

What nationality are you anyway?


Pat Buchanan: Let Congress decide on war with Iran

“The secretary was clear that we have no indication that the Iranians have made a decision to develop a nuclear weapon,” said Pentagon press secretary George Little. “He (Panetta) didn't say that Iran would, in fact, have a nuclear weapon in 2012.”

Little added that U.N. inspectors remain in Iran and have access to its uranium stockpile, and should Iran attempt a “breakout” by diverting low-enriched uranium to a hidden facility to convert it to weapons grade, U.N. inspectors would instantly detect the diversion.

“We would retain sufficient time under any such scenario to take appropriate action,” said Little.

In short, the Pentagon does not believe Iran has made a decision to build atomic weapons, and the department is confident that, should it do so, the United States would have ample warning.

Little's definitive statement, “We have no indication that the Iranians have made a decision to develop a nuclear weapon,” coincides with the consensus of all 16 U.S. intelligence agencies, including the CIA and Defense Intelligence Agency, in December 2007.

In that report, the entire U.S. intelligence community stated unanimously, with “high confidence,” that Iran had given up its drive for an atom bomb back in 2003.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 07:27 | 2057655 Element
Element's picture

That same US intel 'community' completely fucked the goat over Iraqi WMDs.

I will never trust them after that - NEVER!

jus sayin

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 12:06 | 2058489's picture

Bush administration officials cooked the intelligence. The agencies were not at fault.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 20:30 | 2056734 john39
john39's picture

Zionist lies are loosing their effect, Israel is a pariah now more than ever.  and it should be.  What it is doing to innocent palestinians cannot be justified.  And quite ironic as well, given the constant cries of victimhood from zionists.   karma is a real bitch, prepare for impact.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 21:39 | 2056946 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

What is that Jewish saying... always cry foul when you strike out at someone..... or something like that.. yeah.. and it obviously fucking works like a swiss watch..  but even those break eventually..

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 21:28 | 2056922 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

One political appointee at the Pentagon says this . Note the word "says". Doesn't mean he is saying what he thinks, nevermind knows.

Note a lot of stuff and people have been splodiating in in Iran lately. Missiles. Facilities. Scientists. Engineers. Most of these attached to enrichment, nuclear programs, or delivery methods. The Defense Intelligence Agency, which is a lot smarter and more effective than the CIA, certainly knows more about this than talking head political dude "says" to idiot teevee reporters.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:35 | 2057434's picture

Listen carefully:

The Pentagon and all US intelligence agencies agree unanimously with "high confidence" that Iran has no nukes or nuke program. Is your hatred of American expertise and professionalism simply a function of your stupidity or do you have an agenda of some kind?

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 02:25 | 2057484 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Head fake. Did you miss out on the aftermath of Iraq? All intelligence agencies in the world believed and stated Saddam was working on and had WMDs. As to professionalism, the professional thing to do in the intelligence business is often enough to LIE.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 12:08 | 2058498's picture

Bush administration officials cooked the intelligence. The agencies were not at fault. Just like now. The intelligence community agrees Iran has no bomb but the politicians insist they do.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 09:10 | 2057743 Element
Element's picture

Crockett, watch this video interview with Paul Pillar, it put me off intelligence agencies for life.  I watched it go to air at the time.

Real Player .RAM video stream

Paul Pillar, interviewed by Stephen Sackur (BBC World, BBC News 24, HARDtalk, March 15 2006) {BBCcat anz2502t}, video {23:35}.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 20:07 | 2056677 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Homicides are lower because life saving technology is saving folks that would have died and joined the homicide statistics in the old days. Problem is, now they live with colostomy bags and other horrific stuff. These stats are NOT being gathered, stats on attempted murder are not being gathered in a consistent way (or not at all depending on where you live, pols have changed this deliberately so that they don't have to report attempted murders). Many of these crimes fall under the "assault" stats now.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 20:15 | 2056695's picture

Interesting. Thanks.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:55 | 2056633 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

You seem to share the same sentiments as a particular mustached fellow back in Germany in the 1930's. That whole racial superiority thing. I'm not saying you are Hitler..that would be Hitler. He was at least intelligent.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 20:05 | 2056668 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Got to the Hitler syndrome awefully quick here.

Oppress the crap out of half of your population and you have the audacity to make the folks who consider women equals out to be the Hitlers here.

GO lick some more arab balls, the folks with all the oil money and yet have not contributed one single iota to mankinds existence.

A regressive people to the entire race. We are entitled to the accomplishments and achievements that would undoubtedly come from free women you stupid dumbfukking arabapologist piece of Eurotrash.


Wed, 01/11/2012 - 21:10 | 2056854 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

do we have an invasion of trolls here suddenly?

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 22:40 | 2057123 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Just like that honeypot called Microsoft Windows® attracts criminals, trolls flock to ZeroHedge, due to its popularity.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 21:15 | 2056880 Reprobate
Reprobate's picture

Godwin's Law

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:12 | 2056494 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Oooooo. Hey that's a good one. BUY 'MERICAN! BUY 'MERICAN!!!!

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:16 | 2056517 Karl von Bahnhof
Karl von Bahnhof's picture

And that is important, coz without of them we will not have any terrarist at all.. Left

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:17 | 2056522 darkhorse222
darkhorse222's picture

you still beleive in the tooth fairy me thinks



Wed, 01/11/2012 - 20:35 | 2056732 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Good essay, but the discriminant between N. Korea and Iran isn't "oil". NK weapons aimed at Japan, US; no big deal in Zionist-controlled DC. Iran weapons might eventually be aimed at Yizroel, and that, the ZOG will not tolerate. After all, "Israel is a vital ally in the War on Terror"................######?????!!!!!@@@@@@@@*******))))))(((((((((cough, gagh...

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 01:29 | 2057427 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

I jus cant totally ignore one pitches the slow easy loft like him...or her...or it...or algorithum...

Yeah, Israel is vital to us like ghonorrea.  It scares the youth enough to not get out of line.


Thu, 01/12/2012 - 13:50 | 2058867 Black Friday
Black Friday's picture

150 people need a clue on how to spot sarcastic irony.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!