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Guest Post: Iranian Bushehr Nuclear Plant Comes Online - World Survives
Submitted by John C.K. Daly of OilPrice.com
Iranian Bushehr Nuclear Plant Comes Online - World Survives
On 12 September Iran brought its first nuclear power plant in Bushehr online, connecting it to the country's electrical grid. Iranian officials at the opening ceremony said that the 1,000 megawatt plant has begun generating electricity at 40 percent of its capacity and will reach full capacity by the year’s end following further testing.
Quite aside from demonstrating Iran’s touching post-Fukushima faith in nuclear energy despite being a seismically active country, Bushehr represents a Rorschach test of sorts for all the fears and anxieties in the Middle East, in which everyone looking at the facility has his preconceptions reaffirmed.
“Axis of Evil” charter member Iran insists that Bushehr represents the government’s determination to husband is vast oil reserves by promoting other energy sources, as its economy has hammered by more than three decades of U.S.-led sanctions.
Iran has been subjected to increasingly militant rhetoric from both Tel Aviv and Washington over its civilian nuclear energy program, with thinly veiled threats of possible military action if Tehran does not abandon its efforts, even though they are completely complaint under the terms of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), which Iran has signed and which Tehran pointedly underlines, it’s nemesis and harshest critic Israel has not.
Russia signed a $1 billion contract in 1995 for building the Bushehr plant and last month the country’s Rosatom supplied the power station’s uranium fuel. The United States urged Russia to delay the startup until Iran proves that it's not developing nuclear weapons, to no avail, as Moscow replied that that the Bushehr project has been closely supervised by the U.N.’s International Atomic Energy Agency.
Russian officials said that Iran had signed a pledge to ship all the spent uranium fuel from Bushehr back to Russia for reprocessing, excluding the possibility that any of it could used to make nuclear weapons.
Russia has insisted that the Bushehr project is essential for persuading Iran to cooperate with the IAEA and fulfill its obligations under international nuclear nonproliferation agreements.
Many aspects of Iran’s uranium enrichment activities trouble the international community, so much so that in June the U.N. Security Council slapped a fourth set of sanctions on Iran over its nuclear program. The sanctions followed Iran's refusal to halt uranium enrichment, a process which can be used for the production of fuel for power plants when uranium is enriched to a level of 3-4 percent purity, as well as material for nuclear warheads if enriched to more 90 percent purity. Equally worrying is the fact that Iran received its centrifuge designs from Pakistan, the world’s first Muslim nuclear state, which developed its own nuclear weapons in response to India’s weapon program.
Iran continues to insist that its nuclear program is purely peaceful, aimed at producing nuclear energy, but the United States and Israel in particular believe that Tehran's real goal is to produce atomic weaponry.
And Israel has more reason than most to be concerned, as it developed its own nuclear weapons in the 1950s and 1960s at its Dimona reactor by hoodwinking the IAEA, a fact finally proven in 1986 by Israeli whistleblower Mordechai Vanunu, who leaked details of the program to Britain’s Sunday Times and was subsequently kidnapped back to Israel, tried on charges of treason and espionage and subsequently served an 18-year prison sentence. If any nation has a concept of how to covertly develop nuclear weaponry, it is Israel.
So, Bushehr finally comes down to seeing what you want to see there.
That said, international law is not, despite the efforts of the Bush 2 administration, the issue of a nation’s unilaterally “cherry picking” through intelligence for material supporting national agendas stands in stark contrast to building an international consensus for general behavior through the rule of law. Unilaterally ascribing the worst possible motives to a nation rather than letting international law resolve issues will eventually leave the globe in the jungle, with survival of the strongest.
Any Israeli strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities, unlike its attack on Iraq’s Osirak nuclear reactor in 1981 or its 2007 strike on reported Syrian nuclear facilities, will become an international incident, as at Buhshehr alone, according to Russian Federation Energy Minister Sergei Shmatko, “around 1,500 (Russian) people” now work at Bushsehr and “several hundred people – depending on our agreement with Iran – will be engaged in operating the plant.”
The world has uneasily lived with Pakistan’s nuclear “Muslim bomb” for 13 years. Whatever the reality of Iran’s nuclear program, if it does indeed mask a weapons component, why would Iran feel tempted to use it to strike Israel, as it would inevitably provoke massive retaliation from Israel’s nuclear arsenal, estimated at several hundred atomic weapons, deployed by a triad of aircraft, missiles and submarines.
To paraphrase Sigmund Freud, who famously observed, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar,” perhaps sometimes a nuclear power plant is just… a nuclear power plant.
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Ug. How 'bout some proof reading?
I can overlook grammar and punctuation errors in comments but several instances in an entire article make it difficult to follow.
If there was only ONE way to stop America from invading your country, killing your people and stealing your natural resources, while claiming its all for the purpose of promoting democracy - would'nt you do it?
Furthermore "Democracy" will help with the demise of America - it's 51% of the people telling the other 49% what to do, i.e, two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.
No where in the constitution or the bill of rights is the word democracy mentioned. America was established as a Republic - This is where you give the sheep from above a gun.
+1. Iran should put all its gold reserves next to Bushehr as well.....radioactive gold, come and get it!
Iran should sell all its gold now.
and promise to keep it safe.
In Iran.
Iran cannot sell all of its gold because their real wealth is in the form of "black gold"
Iran is just a pawn to Russia/China. Russia supplied technology and know how. Russia is just protecting their own colony with a nuclear capability.
This is not for civilian benefit. Why would oil rich country need a nuclear power? To get the spent fuel rods for nukes. Why do they need nukes? To defend Iranian bourse from American petrodollar with strong arming by American "liberation" army. Why does America need Iran's oil? American banksters need real assets to support fiat dollars. Why does America need real assets to support the dollar? Banksters gambled away decades of productivity and you can only enslave the population so much.
You all probably have no idea what's coming. Iran is but a cog in the wheel of what's been a long-term setup to annihilate Israel. Don't know if civilization will make it through October at this point:
http://thespiritoftruth.blogspot.com/2011/09/autumn-panic-update-will-ci...
When you say 'long term set up' do you mean since before the current era?
Sure. The ZOG is plotting to annihilate the ZOG. If only.
You're spot on, SpiritOfTruth, and the number of down-arrows shows how many here indeed have no idea of the staged progression. They see each move only in isolation, and in the light of current propaganda, while the Luciferians work to century-long plans (and control the propaganda!).
i'd like you to educate us on these luciferians, do they fight the jedi? tell me more.
anyway i thought about your points on the chinese the other day and i liked them.
i read this on AEP's column and thought you might find it interesting - it discusses the uk as it is a brit paper.
Quote - I can’t understand the anti-Chinese comments on this site when the Chinese seem to be following British, USA and the rest of Europe’s last 200 years of colonial advancement.
Except – China seems to have learned from the West’s mistakes and is now quite rightly reaping the rewards.
150 years ago, the sun NEVER set on the British Empire. In those days everyone had a choice. Work hard to feed yourself and your family or starve, because there was no human rights or welfare state. – Since 1/3 of the world still get to live like this and we watch daily on every news channel, I don’t understand why anyone in the west can’t understand this.
The First World War destroyed Britain, Financially and Genetically. The aristocracy were decimated and their families (the old British Elite – (because every nation throughout history and even today ALWAYS has an elite – if you doubt me, look at Westminster or the EU or Congress in the USA or even any Director of any company) were wiped out. The UK owned more of the USA before WWI than afterwards and WWII took out the rest.
I believe that China is “almost” following the history of the British Empire with one really important caveat.
China hasn’t forcibly invaded any nation in recent years - China has invested her hard earned cash.
China is doing what Britain did 150 years ago, except China is not murdering or committing genocide. China is buying the land and it’s resources and China is developing every nation it invests in.
If China buys a cobalt mine in Columbia (hypothetical) China pays for the mine, China puts in infrastructure, builds roads and railways (a lot like Britain used to do – except Britain sent the army first) But, China makes no apologies. Unlike Britain, China BOUGHT the mine. China then builds roads and railways and infrastructure that provides employment to local population, not because China feels guilty. China needs roads and railways and infrastructure so that China can move the cobalt from the mine to the docks – that China also built, man and maintain, so that the cobalt can make it safely and efficiently back to China, which seems fair to me, since China paid for the WHOLE operation.
Britain was once like China. But, then, we let the academics and the socialists and the liberals in.
China makes countries better admitting she'd like that countries resources and then INVESTING in the the Country.
Britain and the USA would also like those resources but they INVEST in the Dictators who murder their own populations on whim yet never need fear the Hague?
Who's more Guilty? China who build jobs and infrastructure or the West who prop up the few at the expense of the rest?
Academics and Socialists and Liberals who are full of great ideas, but rely on EVERYONE else paying and suffering for their ideology.
China is accused of Human Rights Abuses. China has a HUGE population who seem to be academically and financially much better off now.
If you look at the total population of China, the abuses they are accused of, their HRA Abuses probably represent less than 2% of the whole Chinese population. Show me a Western country with less than 2% of their population in prison and I might listen to your arguement.
Some people are bad, there is no rehabilitation. If this were the case then western governments would put the needs of their populations above their own party politics!
Many millions in China have better lives today than 20 years ago - How many of us in the West can claim the same?.
China is the worlds new superpower with cash and gold reserves that the rest of the world can only envy.
Perhaps pride, hard work and application - delivers a financially stronger nation than lying through your teeth and claiming Asylum or that your "Rights" have been somehow been abused when you have no pride and not intention to apply yourself to the greater good of the population?
Don't blame China for refusing to believe that everyones a victim.
I believe the heart of China’s success is that they followed the British Empire Model to build wealth and resources except that China didn’t invade ¾ of the world.
And China has rejected guilt and socialism.
There is room for everyone as long as they work and provide for it themselves.
Modern China has bought and invested in all of its recent acquisitions.
The main gripe against China is her response to Human Rights Issues.
I’d doubt that China has 2% of it's massive population behing bars, which is better than any of the West can claim? Is this a Human Rights Abuse or do thieves, cheats and murders actually simply deserve to be behind bars?
China succeeds because China refuses to give her hard won wealth away to undeserving socialist lost causes.
The Socialists and the Liberal and the Human Rights Activists who end up imprisoned in China are the same “academics” who destroyed every competitive advantage the west ever earned.
That China rounds them up and imprisons them before they get to convince the greater population that they somehow have "Rights" without responsibilities just makes me realise that it's the socialists and Liberals and the Greens who are truly guilty of Human Rights Abuses.
If you disbelieve me, look to the facts;
Who is doing better?
China or the West?
Who is providing jobs and healthy financial future for their populaion?
China or the West.
Who ignores the best interests of the majority of their hardworking taxpayers in favor of (non entitled) unemployed, iligitimate, illegal, thieves, cheats and murders?
Who rewards hard work and effort and enjoys seeing their hard work and effort rewarded through a more comfortable lifestyle and who gets to witness cuts to education, Health, Defence and every aspect of public expenditure whilst they increase foreign hands (with No conditions, no investment and NO RETURN on investment)?
China or the West?
I used to love my country, but the simple fact is my country isn’t my country anymore. There entrepreneurial spirit that made us the first Industrial Nation, who - whilst never perfect has saved our European Neighbours TWICE from their own genocidial tendences TWICE in the last 100 years which financially destroyed our nation.
Given the choice, (like we have a choices?) if I’m FORCED to be subservient to an unelected foreign protectorate?
I’d choose China over the UK Government and the European Union EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK.
I’m not suggesting that China is perfect. But – they appear to understand that only hard work and effort builds better lifes and better nations.
China isn't perfect, but neither is the UK or the EU.
The UK and EU seem happy to shower their taxpayer cash on the Lazy, liars , thieves, murders and occaisionally - Ministerial Fraud and Duckhouses....
Treason is a two way street. The UK Government have commited treason against the rest of us for the last 40 years.
Now, given a choice of responsible government. - I'd chose China over Cameron and Clegg every decade of the century.
It made me think.
Thanks for that excerpt. I've forgotten what we were discussing the other day, but I'm very aware of China's role in history. I've lived there, still have senior business connections there, and was on one of the very first western VIP tours through the country immediately after Mao's death.
I've often posted on here that I don't expect China to attack anybody ... it's not in their nature and it's not in their strategic interest. They are traders and diplomats, not warmongering empire builders. They were sailing the seven seas long before southern Europeans accidentally discovered that they didn't fall off the edge of the Earth when they left sight of land. They were always welcome (as far as I have read) in those foreign ports and they've never engaged in expansionist wars of aggression against neighbours or anybody else (though they do vigorously defend their ancient claims over certain border areas with ethnic Chinese origins - like Tibet and part of Kashmir).
Re: Luciferianism. If you are indeed interested, rather than just being snarky, I'll be happy to provide some starter links for you to begin your own research into the role of the Jesuits and Sabbateans in recent events.
Long post which is nothing more in the end than US cheap propaganda.
Made me laugh. A bunch of endless twisted perception to serve self interests. US citizenish.
When was China like UK?
On one hand, it is told that China does not engage into military conquest, on the other hand, it is reminded that England did engage into military conquest.
Guilt? But over what? And guilt is acknowledged in the West? One has still to see Europeans from the US return to Europe.
Expansion has this that when it turns no longer possible to expand, it gives three different categories of people:
first category: people who admit that the primary problem in the current scheme of expansion is the lack of expansion opportunity. Days of expansions are over and this is the main trouble.
second category: people who deny the primary problem and prefer to propagate a loss of cultural value. If the days of expansion are over, that is because the people has lost their cultural ways.
third category: people who deny the primary problem and prefer to propagate a genetical decay. If the days of expansion are over, that is because the people has lost their genetic value.
Second and third category mix rather well one with another, the first not so much with the two others.
"Why would oil rich country need a nuclear power?"
My Peak OilTM buddies tell me the oil is running out.
Your Peak Oil buddies speak with forked tongue.
America demonstrated to the world what can happen to a non-lapdog country that does not have nuclear weapons. Iran needs to hurry if it isn't to follow Iraq into an Anglo-American Hell.
American and Soviet nuclear "power" reactors were built to produce plutonium. Plutonium was not the byproduct. Electricity was the byproduct. This is the reason we have uranium fueled power plants instead of much cheaper and safer thorium fueled ones.
no idea why more people don't acknowledge this simple basic fact - +100.
And Bicycle'man's Peak Oil buddies speak with forked tounge because?
I must have missed why.
Aldous old chap.
You are running around in circles looking for truth.
Why would Iran not want nuclear weapons?
Why would Iran want nuclear weapons?
That's your answer.
to me this is as clear as day. its not just about 'israel' blablabla. it's about former persians iiving in the u.s. and the revolutionaries in iran beind used as pawns by the west to make an oil grab ....and china and russia have a hell of an easy time just playign defense.
problem with being the agressor is it always requires so much more effort than playing defense and you're frequently exposed and vulnerable.
"Why would oil rich country need a nuclear power?"
Iran doesn't have enough rafinery in his own country to make anything useful of their oil. Yes, they must IMPORT rafined gas!
Why would oil rich country need a nuclear power? To get the spent fuel rods for nukes.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Made me laugh. US propagandists never rest.
Maybe they need it because they know their own oil reserves? Just telling.
Who can believe that if they had followed the US piece of advice, the US would have delivered freely the nuclear technology after Iran ran out of oil?
Is it not just compulsory for Iran to start thinking of their future while they still have something to trade?
One could even tell that the US would not have pushed nuclear technology for money when Iran oil ran short...
.
uh, that's 2/3's telling 1/3 what's for dinner or a super majority. so what's for dinner?
Well in Amerika today, it is over half of our uber CONgress telling the rest of CONgress how they have to vote in order to fuck the "citizens" of amerika.
pods
I don't get it. We did not invade Germany or Japan in WWII to steal resources. We did not invade Korea to steal resources. We did not invade Viet Nam to steal resources, it was a mistake to invade Viet Nam, but we didn't go for oil. We did not invade Grenada for resources, In Panama, one could argue we went to protect access to the canal - which is access to resources - but not to steal them. The first Gulf War was certainly motivated to protect access to oil, but not to steal it. In Iraq, the US has stolen no oil, China is the main commercial partner in Iraq's post-war oil industry. Afghanistan has no resources.
Where has America invaded a country to steal resources?
I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class thug for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.[12]
General Smedley Butler
Oops, I see you beat me to it.
If a country has large deposits of crude oil but is not producing it fast enough, does another country have the right to invade it and replace that country's government with one who has the intention of producing more crude oil faster so it can be consumed faster.
Whose fucking oil is it?
Its our fuking oil ! They just happen to live there.
Geez, it was just a rhetorical question.
...and you got a rhetorical answer.
Give you a hint, they carry M-4's and ride in Humvees.
pods
Allow me to introduce you to Major General Smedley Butler (Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient).
http://www.warisaracket.com/
“We did not invade Germany or Japan in WWII to steal resources”
The USA did not join the Second World War until Pearl Harbour was attacked.
It was a defensive action.
“We did not invade Korea to steal resources”
The USA should not have “invaded” Korea.
They should have let the Chinese take it.
“it was a mistake to invade Viet Nam”
They should have let the Chinese take it.
“The first Gulf War was certainly motivated to protect access to oil, but not to steal it. “
What makes you think that the oil would not have been sold in the market in the absence of the USA going to war?
What makes you think that the USA could not have devised alternatives?
“Afghanistan has no resources.”
It has a pipeline.
It’s about Empire.
And what keeps the empire "greased and rolling"?
That's not how mob's protection scheme works. Mob is not interested in stealing your business and running it themselves because that means they take risk and have to work your lame job. Mob's core competency is not business acumen but security expertise. They want the businesses to pay protection fees. In order to do that they need to control the business at the highest level and to make sure nobody else (police, private security, other mobs) provides such "protection". Mob also has a gambling house they own. Whenever house loses because mobs themselves took too much of gambling profits, they need more business to "protect" to pay the gambling debts off to keep the house in order.
Substitute "mob" with America, "gambling house" with banks, "business" with countries rich in natural resources.
In summary, America needs oil rich countries to trade in dollars to keep the petrodollar system going so that wall st. has enough money to gamble.
Oil is America's largest import. Import prices rise when you have inflation due to bailing out banksters. To lessen the truth from being exposed to Americans, need to dampen the oil prices by forcing the suppliers to bear the inflation costs.
That should tell you whys of America's foreign policy since getting off from the gold standard.
Where has America invaded a country to steal resources?
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Made me laugh. US citizens can not limit themselves. Even when you are aware of it, it does not stop from being surprised by their capacity.
One really has to think no boundary with US citizens because they have not.
Where has the US invaded a country to steal resources?
The question should be where it has not.
The US is a colonial country which have invaded and driven away other people to install the US settlers and create the US middle class by stealing from others to distribute among its citizenry.
So where? on the very ground that is now known as the US soil. And this from the beginning of the US history.
Since this little fact (which only accounts for nearly half of the US history since the transfer of indian lands was accomplished in 1898) is ignored, it is obvious that the rest of the list is bollocks.
The US invaded Germany for resources: the US transfered a large number of IP, patent, technology from Germany to the US.
Same with Japan. The Japanese led biological experiments on Chinese guinea pigs (which were human by the way, have to recall with US citizens) and offered protection to the Japanese government in exchange of the biological knowledge etc...
Wont go through all the comment, impossible as it spreads fantasy nearly in each sentence.
To cheer you up, just think back to 2008 election where that Democrat/rino John McCain (KEATING) sang that love song,
BOMB, BOMB BOMB, BOMB BOMB, IRAN
Originally sang by the Beach Boys.
WHAT A FUCKING PUTZ that POS is. FU JOHN MC CAN.
The Viet Cong should have killed that motherfucker.
.
There was no reason for the Viet Cong to do us any favors like that.
seriously wtf does this mean: " Iran insists that Bushehr represents the government’s determination to husband is vast oil reserves by promoting other energy sources". i've opened all my third grade books, but still can't figure out the meaning.
Wait until next year ... maybe there will be something in your fourth grade books............
They picked the wrong energy source, bitchez...
They have earthquakes... Remember Bam?
Fukushima, Iranian style?
http://azizonomics.com/2011/09/14/why-nuclear-fission-sucks/
Would it be ironic if Iran's nuclear reactor had a melt down and radiation got into the oil wells making ME oil no longer safe for export?
You can wake up now.
San Onofre & Diablo Canyon, in shaky Kalifornia - have a look at the quake activity for today:
http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
http://www.energy.ca.gov/nuclear/california.html
Israel bashing is getting so tiresome. Read the Koran, you infidel. You're next. Who cares if Iran signed a treaty. It's basically just toilet paper to them. They know the Koran and that anything signed with an infidel is null and void before the ink is dry. I'd rather have an Israel who doesn't sign a treaty, than an Iran who does and is lying through their teeth. When's the last time Israel's threatened to annihilate anybody? Too bad we can't say the same for Iran (mullahs and rulers, not the oppressed citizenry who want peace and freedom from them). Iran has threatened Israel's existence so many times I've lost count. What you fail to realize is that its leaders do so as a matter of religious duty and they sponsor others who treaten the same (Hezzbollah, Hamas, Al Quaida, etc.). Now we're finding out they were major sponsors of 9/11 (check out latest lawsuit against them from family of one of the pilots). Gee, what a surprise. Get a grip. Read a book, especially the Koran. Maybe you'll realize these people actually mean what they say.
For all you do.....FUCK YOU ISRAEL!!
what a whitty retort. that's the best you got?
oy vey FUCK YOU ISRAEL!!
i lol'd
the word is "witty", unless you are a whittler.
you are correct, my error. however, my point is still apparently irrefutable.
"And if I did know Carl LaFong I wouldn't admit it."
.....Harold Bissonette
Are you one of those people paid by Israel to post pro-Israel comments on internet blogs/forums?
no. are you one of those paid to Israel-bash?
pointing out israel's bad acts is more akin to fulfilling a moral obligation...
Here's are some examples of pathetic monitoring sites to argue any anti Israeli comments:
http://hpmonitor.blogspot.com/
another:
http://cifwatch.com/
Wtf????????? ALL ANTI-ISRAELI comments have to be debunked??? WTF is going on here????????
People usually bash Israel for free. The way I understand it.
I would actually pay to bash Israel.
Most those people are ADL or AIPAC volunteers.
in other words, agents to a foreign nation engaged in subvertion, manipulation, spying, extortion, profiteering inter alia. Some things just never change.
i let people like you read it for me... im lazy
When you say, "these people actually mean what they say", I think you are referring to both the Israelis and the Arabs.
After the Nazi's and WWII, Israel will blow up the world before they let that happen again.
First nuke in or out of Israel - better get to South America!
Israel's military was founded out of Irgun and Lehi two... um how do you put it... TERRORIST organisations...
Pretty much every book written in the middle ages is dripping in blood and guts. The Koran is no exception.
But modern day Israel is just as bloody, brutal and self-serving as any other state in the middle east.
And all that military spending is a drain on the residents of Israel... the very Jews that Israel's existence was supposed to help.
So much so that they're out protesting just like their Arab cousins.
How about we all stop fighting and concentrate on development in a free market economy?
http://azizonomics.com/2011/09/04/in-war-even-the-winners-are-losers/
Actually, these two were the smallest (adjunct) of the Palmach (Israeli army) and other than one terrible incident where civilians were actually killed on purpose, all attacks by these were on military installations and personel. Modern day terrorists go out of their way to kill civilians. You're trying to equate apples with oranges. No big surprise. We're not talking how bloody war is here. We're talking about phony baloney nuclear treaties. As far as free market economies, Israel has the only one in the entire Middle East. How about we all stop fighting and concentrate on having Iran, Egypt, Syria, etc. develop a free market economy?
How about Israel gets rid of their Nukes first?
Why should they? They may need them if Iran follows through on all her threats.
You Isreali's need to stop threating the rest of the world. We're getting f#cking sick of it and damn well know you're the biggest threat to man kind.
That is so far over the top, you should probably go on oxygen.
They way you defeat Israel is to offer zionist leaders to sell their mothers and sisters into prostitution in Saudi Kingdom for money. And the repeat with the rest of "neo-nazis" there.
um...who do you think gave israel nukes. dumbass. it was america. and it wasn't some fancy ass israel conspiracy theory. it's called the free world.
let's see. israel ...previous turkish colony stolen from the persian. british stole it from turks, left and after hitler and all of eastern europe killed the jews they gave it to the refugees by way of the u.n. that left the jews to die fighting for their homeland. jordan and syria invaded in 48' and repeatedly thereafter and got their asses kicked.
what ...you don't like colonialism? how do you think white people got to live in america.
yea..of course, israel is the real instigator of global evil......it couldn't only be part of a global battefield of nations a number of which are 100 million plus person nuclear powers....like russia , china, india, the u.s. europe....
it amazes me how many people have no perspective on global politics on here when they want to blame israel for everything wrong in the middle east. as if iran, turkey, syria, jordan, the arabian penninsular countries all didn't have their own complex problems with each other. and as if america wouldn't be involved in this area but for the existance of israel. because as we all well know the west and the east have never been fighting over this land and pushing back against the arabs in the past 1000 years....
people IZ ignorant bitches. ignorant of how history works.
fucking anti-semitic bastards. no let me rephrase that, fucking anti-muslim, racist, xenophobic, white-supremacist, fast food loving, gazzguzzling---anti-semitic bastards. go drive your suv and keep complaining about the problems of u.s. involvement in the middle east. keep on drinking middle eastern oil for breakfast and complain about the morning news as you read it.
You went through all of that just to use a shotgun, at the end, and alienate any potential allies?
Nice. Must be lonely on top of that mountain you seem to inhabit.
Ya. Iran has a very complex problem. They don't have a rothchilds controlled central bank. And therefore require real things in exchange for oil. It's no more complicated than that.
It doesn't matter who starts the first nuclear war, everyone is going to send a lot of their nukes into Israel and Israel is going to send all she's got out. Israel's got plenty of scores to settle since 1967.
Israel's economy (i.e. defined as Eretz Israel: Jewish State + West Bank and Gaza) is really free: if you're Jewish. It's all checkpoints and destroyed merchandise if you're Arab. It's an apartheid state, let's be honest.
I support equal rights for everyone, free market for everyone. Turn the entire middle east into a free trade zone. Jewish tech & brains + Arab oil, petrodollars and muscle. After all we're all cousins right? No matter how much of a rogue state Israel is when it comes to nuclear missiles...
You couldn't be more wrong. The number of muslims serving in the IDF is impressive. Notably because muslims live freer in Israel than in almost any other nation in the Middle East.
Enlistment among non-bedouin, non-druze, non-circassian, non-christian arabs, (i.e. israeli palestinian-muslims) is less than 5%. And it would be way lower if most of the jobs didn't require military service, thus creating a two-tier society (this system is also very unfair to Haredi).
Tell that "live freer than any other nation in the ME" to the pre-48 Arabs now living in refugee camps in Lebanon, Gaza, etc after their villages were burned and replaced with Israeli settlements.
The kindest thing I can call Israel (having read its constitution, and having Israeli citizens as members of my extended family) is an ethnocracy. Ethnocracies are — by definition — undemocratic, and unfree. Slightly more than 50% of the population of Eretz Israel is Arab. If Israel was a real democracy, its name would be Palestine.
tyranny of minority bitches. too bad muslim democracies mostly just windup at theocratic dictatorships just about anywhere you look in the middle east. how did that revolution agianst the shah go for iran?
as if israel WOULDN"T be a dictatorship of islam shuould the people living in west bank and gaza be incorporated into a one state solution.
hence the two state solution. the palestinians can get their government and israel gets to keep hers. reasonable outcome for everyone one would hope. but alas, the real agenda for many people is to destroy israel. ah the right of return. yes, just like the native americans were given the right of return. after they live and eat american grown food, grow in numbers and then 100 years after getting their ancestors getting their asses kicked they demand fair and equal treatment. no, they got reservations. compromises are made. a two state solution with east jerusalem for the palestinians is the compromise. there will never be a right to return, simply put, that is demanding the end of israel. and what if israel had lost the war in 1948?
would the jews have demanded the U.N. create a nation for them AND fight a war for them.
no, if you want a nation. you need to fight. it's called nationalism. it's not pretty. it's real.
nationalism is fighting. sadly, this is how human beings have organized themeselves around the globe. maybe one day, in a distant future, there will be no fighting , no nations, just peace for mankind.
we can pray.
and we can also build nukes and protect ourselves while we wait for god.
i hear he's still on his day off.
I only junked you because of your namesake. I think it's wrong to design weapons of mass, indiscriminate murder.
You should have junked him for making a bullshit statement.
I did.
Remember, when you are having dinner in a restaurant, you are paying for the desert a Jew is enjoying at the next table.
And you know that how?
Stop talking shit.
Google " Rabbinical Kosher Excise Tax"
Look in your refrigerator and for The Union of Orthodox Jews (symbolized by the "U" within a circle) and/or the Circle-K (for Kashruth or, Kosher)
Restaurants food supplies are not immune.
What if the Jew is not enjoying his free desert because he sees a better one at a different table?
Shhh....you are giving away the secret. Britain's old playbook: divide and conquer. Let Jews and Muslims hate each other so that UK can support her empire. Also, British dejected bunch of Jews out of Britain without having to resort to Hitler like methods.
Also, why israel does not borrow money for their needs from central bankers like all other countires do???
Free markets? Israel is knee-deep in socialism and has conned the US gov out of tens of billions in undeserved aid, unless 1st-world countries are eligible for aid under the definition. $3-4 Billion a year for a tiny country means we are paying for their health care, for example, while Americans enjoy no such subsidy. That French diplomat was right: It is a "shitty little country".
Israel is apartheid where non Jews are treated like animals.
Israel has no monopoly on injustice.
USA is apartheid where people who grow the wrong kind of plants are caged like animals.
True. But according to Deuteronomy they are entitled to a a royalty if they want one.
Israel is apartheid looking for more land.
From the Nile to the Euphrates -- they're already found it. They just need to get rid of the occupants.
" As far as free market economies, Israel has the only one in the entire Middle East. "
Maybe it's one of the more free ones, but don't exaggerate. I thought its land came chiefly from innocent people who were forcibly ejected. i.e., the land was stolen. "free markets" by definition don't include acts of theft.
The only rightful and logical thing to do is to return the stolen land to the victims and their descendents (beneficiaries of their estates) who were wrongfully aggressed against. The same logic applies to the USA and its history of slavery and interment and employment of atomic weaponry, of course.
Nice editing on your misapplication of the term "fusion" when fission is what you meant. Tell us what else don't you understand, so we know what parts of your posts to ignore.
Too bad you can't go back and fix interment which means burial in a funeral service where you no doubt intended to say "internment". Spell checkers don't correct ignorance, only misspelling.
Nice criticisms of my post. Too bad you can't go back and use complete sentences.
It's the thoughtlessness on your part that counts, beyond any fifth-grade retort about my channeling Ginsberg and e.e. cummings. You should read Howard Zinn and Christopher Lasch so you can get your revisionists criticisms of America's history well organized and perhaps get a real argument advanced.
Aren't you at all grateful such a country with a despicable history let's a chump like you criticize it? I think it is great that freedom of speech applies to people like you who don't know what they are talking about. Maybe you should revise your half-baked ideas to include a thought that 600,000 Americans died to end slavery.
Write again, when you have something worth saying.
>e.e. cummings.
Needs capitalization.
>revisionists criticisms
Missing apostrophe.
>Aren't you at all grateful such a country with a despicable history let's a chump like you criticize it?
Not really. My ability to communicate is innate. I don't need to thank someone for permission. Besides, not even that right is really safe here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918 "One historian of American civil liberties has called it "the nation's most extreme antispeech legislation.""
>600,000 Americans died to end slavery
What's your point? "The slaves gained their freedom, it is true, but the land, the plantations that they had tilled and therefore deserved to own under the homestead principle, remained in the hands of their former masters. Furthermore, no reparations were granted the slaves for their oppression out of the hides of their masters. Hence the abolition of slavery remained unfinished, and the seeds of a new revolt have remained to intensify to the present day." - http://murrayrothbard.com/Confiscation_and_the_Homestead_Principle.html
>Write again, when you have something worth saying.
Still waiting on you. Please go ahead and let us know which subjects you are unable to comment on intelligently so we know what portion of your posts is irrelevant.
"...600,000 Americans died to end slavery"
"Paging David Pierre, Paging David Pierre, someone is dead wrong on the internet again.... cleanup on thread 8!"
Unfortunately Mr.Steve, being a dupe isn't much of an improvement to being a chump, my condolences.
Some things need to be revised, and Zinn bases his analysis on historical record, you seem to base yours on 'Max the 2000 year old Mouse'.
Reparations aren't a workable solution. I cant help but feel the situation will resolve itself equitably once the fiat currencies are destroyed and we're back to commodity money.
So most of ZH is siding with the fucking arabs? The modern day author of slavery, female circumsicion, and wiping your ass with your left hand because they're mentally living in the stone age. I'm a Christian, and I support Israel.
Jesus thinks you're an asshole.
"other than one terrible incident where civilians were actually killed on purpose, all attacks by these were on military installations and personel. Modern day terrorists go out of their way to kill civilians."
There was a lot more than one incident:
http://guardian.150m.com/palestine/jewish-terrorism.htm
9/11 was a CIA-Mossad co-production. Do your homework: Study Building 7 and the impact profile of the Pentagon. Why do I suspect, however, that your mind is made up, so you needn't be confused by facts?
"hezbollah, hamas, al quaida" ...yawn
which ones are the guys that practice on the monkey bars, they look REALLY scary..
CIAEDA
I hate those frikking guys. Most of my defenses involve the use of monkey bars. I've got thousands of feet of moneky bars between me and everyone else and it does NOTHING.
Mein Kampf laid it all out in black and white, too, and no one believed it either. Until it was too late. I'm sure it'll be different this time.
Iran major sponsors of 9/11!!! HAHAHAHAHA......BAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA. Thanks for the laugh LaFong. Are you an idiot or are you jewish?
Pot calling kettle black II
Israeli Professor: 'We Could Destroy All European Capitals'
Israel's Mossad: Black Ops and False Flags
"The Jewish Religion: Its Influence Today" by ...Israeli Nukes, US Foreign Aid, and the Symington Amendment
You are as with it today with the future muslim regional sentiment by pumping the fundamentalist interpretation of the Coran as a papal shill would be by pumping Pope Innocent III dictates of Latran IV of 1215 vintage, the high point of papal fundamentalism, reinforcing both Crusader intolerance abroad as Inquisition intolerance at home.
The Talibans are not the future of muslim countries nor the Ayatollahs, no more than Lenin and Mao are in ex-communist countries. Learn to sing Bob Dylan songs, better late than never, to upgrade your out of date red necked mindset!
Heh, and here I thought that there is no hope left on ZH. As much as i Love Ron Paul, allowing Iran to have their own nuclear arsenal is insanity, and I mean INSANITY. Country that openly threatens world with attacks, and its leader would love to see "thousand years reich jihad", whatever treaty they signed was spitted upon. Whatever action they undertake in UN is a lie. All of you Israeli haters are seriously sick in the head. Israel is the only oasis civilization in the middle east. Period, all the rest of them are barbarians, that should not be allowed within 1000 miles from civilized world.
Yes, of course, and the 3,500-yr-old culture of the Persians? I seem to recall that Persian women were most prized by Mongol invaders -- great beauties. And the science of earlier times? The art? Yes, barbarians.
>allowing Iran to have their own nuclear arsenal is insanity, and I mean INSANITY
True, but why should I spend my money on solving someone else's problem thousands of miles away?
>All of you Israeli haters are seriously sick in the head.
I think they are pretty much in the middle of the pack when it comes to governments.
>Israel is the only oasis civilization in the middle east.
That's absurd.
I'm just going to assume you're from the US, your travel experience is limited to driving to the new mega Wallmart, the next county over in the back of an '83 Ford F100 sporting the always timeless Confederate flag, and your international literacy is limited to the latest clips of F18 targetting screens and nightvision of missiles flying like fireworks - as shown on CNN.
Actually, it's the Talmud that says any contract w a Goy is voidable at will. And Israel threatens the world with annihilation on a daily basis: the Samson Option. If I were Iran, I'd get those nukes up and running ASAP.
Guess what, I have and read with a little context and perspective, it is a million times less violent than the Bible (I don't even want to mention the Talmud).
The troublesome verses that huffy pseudo scholars like to spam with are easily squared with when extracted through Mohammad's mission chronology. He was being besieged by the trecherous Jewish tribes of Mecca who conspired with other tribes and Christians to double deal their way to securing his head on a plate. We know what the Israelites have done,past and present, to Christians when they turn the other cheek!
Exhortations to read the Quran,when heeded, usuallly confounds than confirms and theres growing evidence of this as a citation for many a new Muslim (Hasbara tutors will be scratching their heads till kingdom come on this one!)
From someone you would think would keep his enemies closer to him than his friends to prevent leakage and in turn embarassment, the expectation of a learned exploration of your paranoia is somewhat negated by the observation of what is no doubt a very scholarly effort to correctly spell the names of the foes you want to recruit against (Is Al the brother of Dennis?).
BTW, I know you're laughing, as I am at you thinking you are convinced i'm a madman or liar..But Ahmedinejad(I wouldn't share mine either) NEVER said he wanted to wipe Isreal of the map.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel
ta,
Who cares if Iran signed a treaty. It's basically just toilet paper to them.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is the Koran involved in the US case as the US has the largest record (over its short history of 200 years) for considering treaties as toilet paper?
If there is something involved, it is the very high possibility that Iranians are US citizens material. Nothing else.
Transmitting target coordinates for Krugmanite UFO attack...
Here come the warm jets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6r7Nwii4zc&feature=related
so are you saying it wont blow up
The Russians managed to melt a reactor without an earthquake + tsunami.
They are still tops in my book.
and during a safety exercise at that...
You could always spot Russian ex-submariners by the way they glowed in the dark.
You'll be relieved to know that Dick Cheney finally called for you again, and yes he said "I've got Balls of Steel"
, and yes you're on polishing duty.
I know I've arrived when I have my own stalkers.
How cool is that?
Detractors
Don't flatter yourself...
Off topic, but Russian engineering cracks me up. Particularly their military machines.
Otherwise brilliant machines, almost always have an achilles heel of epic proportions.
The BMP's back door is also the fuel tank - and peneterable by a 50cal. Firey death for the troops inside.
The Hind can't hover for too long or the engines overheat. There are also reports of a decent missile hit detatching the cockpit from the chassis.
The T72 had an autoloader that can load shells in 4 seconds. But the shells had to be stored in the turret. Percussion from a decent hit can often set them off, resulting in the turret flying tens of meters into the air.
The Kursk. Well, we all know what happened there. Let's use the most volatile liquid fuel we can think of! YEAH MAN!
I'm almost surprised they haven't tried launching a solid sodium battleship.
They do have some winners though. The SU's the Mig's, the always awesome AK47.
Keep schtump, but I've heard they're working on grafting Medvedev's head directly to he anterior of Putin's 7th vertebrae, creating an uber neopolitical figure that can watch its own back, and never has to be reelected.
In the years to come the Turkey-Iran-Russia axis is one to monitor in ME. Turkey, who controls the waters of the Tigris and Eurphrates holds the trump card now as Nato member, rising local star and respectable muslim country acceptable to all as moderate and relatively modern, large sized nation steeped in the Ataturk secular tradition; whose strategic location is highlighted by all the oil/gas pipelines that cross its borders and waters.
Waning US-Saudi-Israel regressionary minded axis will be increasingly challenged by this new regional axis. Especially if Iran renounces it current rabid shiite stance and reverts to its traditional culturally rich and progressive influence in middle asia.
Other players: China, Germany, and India will be deciding factors as well. Germany now controls the purse strings of Europe, and they may side with the Russian/Sino pact. China is obviously already linked into the group, and India, although not great friends of India, may decide to be friends with benefits to escape a destabolizing war.
The increasing role of Turkey is key to this region. As moderate Sunni nation it could influence toning down of Pak/afghan taliban culture influence, and reinforcing regional cooperation. The EU could have a crucial role to play in coming years to normalise the East-west divide by reinforcing its influence to establish another basis than the sterile clash of civilisations that have made Irak/Afgh into a second Vietnam type front. It is time to change the whole tone of ME diplomacy around the vital oil patch.
Pakistan is an ally of China and arch-enemy of India. India is an ally of the People's Republic of the United States.
Not to mention (from wikipedia)
"Though India continues to have a military relationship with Russia,[33] Israel has emerged as India's second largest military partner[30] while India has built a strong strategic partnership with the United States.[22][34] The Indo-US civilian nuclear agreement, signed and implemented in 2008, highlighted the growing sophistication of the Indo-American relations.[35]"
It's a real mystery inside a riddle wrapped in an enigma sitting on top of a cheese danish.
How much do you charge to do PR for Iranian Nazis? Just make sure that 'peaceful nuclear energy' does not drop in your backyard!
I don't know where you live, but Iran is a long way away from my backyard.
I'm more scared of their flying carpets.
Pot calling kettle black.
How many nuclear weapons does Israel have?
302-402
OMG they are becoming self sufficient like Libya was, and that can't be tolerated. Its time for some U.S. style democracy.
especially if they start selling oil in renmimbi...
"time to drop some bombs of peace... " NWO
That's got to be the last thing China wants...
IPad for sale
Nuke 'em! Nuke 'em Now!!! /SARC
Sometimes power is just....POWER.
Remember The Liberty!