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Guest Post: It’s Not Like I Can Talk To My Neighbor About This Stuff…
Submitted by Simon Black from Sovereign Man
It’s Not Like I Can Talk To My Neighbor About This Stuff…
There’s a rather peculiar tribe of people in northern Uganda known as the Ik that has completely mystified anthropologists for decades. You see, the Ik are unlike just about any other people on the planet in that they shun cooperation, community, and even family.
Due to the constant disruption of national boundaries in Africa coupled with terminal drought and famine conditions, the Ik have a very limited means of survival. As such, their culture epitomizes the ‘every man for himself’ mentality.
Family means nothing. One brother could be starving to death, and the other brother with a belly full of food, and neither would have the slightest thought of sharing. It simply does not register with them.
Each member of the tribe typically spends long periods in isolation searching for food and water. Their only reason for marriage is simply that it’s more convenient to build homes in pairs. Nothing else is shared… and most of the time, an Ik husband and wife will seldom be home at the same time.
Children are occasionally produced from conjugal relationships, generally because they scare off birds and pests from the agricultural fields. By the age of 3, Ik children are kicked out of the home and left to fend for themselves. And they’re not weaned off, either, it’s sink or swim.
All of this sounds shocking to westerners.
Of course, the west exudes a mentality that is at the opposite end of the spectrum: ‘shared sacrifice’ simply by accident of birth.
Westerners are brainwashed into believing that they have an obligation to someone who shares the same color passport… someone who happened to be born within the set of invisible lines that comprise our arbitrary political boundaries.
We’re told that we have a civic responsibility to finance spiraling government deficits, buy more bombs, and pay off other people’s mortgages… regardless of whether or not we share a common ideology, philosophy, or moral code.
This is completely absurd. Human beings are born free. No one comes into this world with an obligation to serve some arbitrary political construct.
Yet on the other hand, the Ik worldview of going at it alone in life also seems absurd.
The truth is that each of us has the capacity to build a strong network of like-minded individuals. We can choose who to let in to our inner circles, to lend support and to be supported. And we can make these choices based on shared values and a common ideology… not some antiquated notion of nationality.
Last night in downtown Denver I was privileged to host one such network of like-minded individuals.
Over 100 Denver-area Sovereign Man: Confidential members gathered at the Jet Hotel where we talked for hours about everything from second passports to the state of the economy to resilient communities.
It was a real pleasure to see so many philosophically aligned people build relationships with one another. As one person told me, “You know, it’s really great to know that I’m not alone in the world. It’s not like I can talk to my neighbor about this stuff…”
As the effects of our fraudulent monetary system and sovereign debt bubbles begin to be felt acutely, having a strong network will become incredibly important.
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We are all Iks now.
There once was a man from tribe Ik...
Who ignored his neighbors long dick...
He said with a grin, as he wiped off his chin...
That bankster just made me feel sick!
Bravo!
LMAO. We have some seriously demented people here on ZH.
An instant classic, if a bit icky.. Nicely done.
groan.......... ;)
You guys are so embarrassing.
HAHAHHAHAHAHA found an english speaking Ik?
It would be novel if such a thing existed-otherwise like most nomadic tribes of Africa,
the story is far from the reality since accurate communication is impossible.
The weird thing is, I assumed if me the resident fucking idiot knows that, surely the rocket surgeons and brain scientists must know that or be
sick.
And in complete diametric opposition, another African concept - Ubuntu
Profound African Custom: Ubuntu
An anthropologist studying the habits and customs of an African tribe found himself surrounded by children most days. So he decided to play a little game with them. He managed to get candy from the nearest town and put it all in a decorated basket at the foot of a tree.
Then he called the children and suggested they play the game. When the anthropologist said “now”, the children had to run to the tree and the first one to get there could have all the candy to him/herself.
So the children all lined up waiting for the signal. When the anthropologist said “now”, all of the children took each other by the hand and ran together towards the tree. They all arrived at the same time, divided up the candy, sat down and began to happily munch away.
The anthropologist went over to them and asked why they had all run together when any one of them could have had the candy all to themselves.
The children responded: “Ubuntu. How could any one of us be happy if all the others were sad?”
Ubuntu is a philosophy of African tribes that can be summed up as “I am what I am because of who we all are.”
Bishop Desmond Tutu gave this explanation in 2008 :
“One of the sayings in our country is Ubuntu – the essence of being human. Ubuntu speaks particularly about the fact that you can’t exist as a human being in isolation. It speaks about our interconnectedness.
You can’t be human all by yourself, and when you have this quality – Ubuntu – you are known for your generosity. We think of ourselves far too frequently as just individuals, separated from one another, whereas you are connected and what you do affects the whole World. When you do well, it spreads out; it is for the whole of humanity.”
Shove your Nobel Savage crap. For a taste of "Ubuntu" in practice - aka "Kill the Boer" - visit the actual ANC-ruled S. Africa. Bishop Tutu's S. Africa. A daily blood-bath.
You are breaking the socialist utopia EDEN dream with your taste of reality.
Antropology 101
Some smarter apes (Homo Erectus or simular) figured out that living in groups, sharing responsibillity and the rewards was a lot easier, than if everyone would fend for themselves. Tasks would be divided and so were taken care of more efficiëntly. Also, enemies and predatory animals were defeated easily as they, alone, were no match for a group.
Over time this system got corrupted because there would be some that assumed the role of leader, not because of qualifications, but because of lust for power. They started to see the rest as "lesser" and their predatory behaviour as "justified". Man turned on itself.
I'd argue the social system of the Ik is actually a regression from the coöperation, just as blind faith in leaders, without questioning them, is an evolutionairy dead end that comes with becoming the dominant species (in impact) on this planet. Most (elite and lower social classes) lost the incentive to survive, as a species, before and now again, and see the present period as "never ending".
It's all very simple, really. We'll die out if we don't dispose of the small group of people that appropriate power but do so without taking descisions to benefit us all, and instead leech off the ignorance of the majority. There's always been "builders" and "destroyers" but in a constantly moving equilibrium.
Right now that equilibrium is lost, the effects of the "destroyers" cannot be repaired by the "builders", as a majority of human beings do not see or realise their potential and responsibillity. If that doesn't change soon, we're toast.
We're the fa ka we tribe.
...Where The Fug Ahh We Tribe
our Bank shook us down for a bribe
+1 Well done ZH
very nicely done
Simon Black posts have become an opportunistic vehicle for spontaneous outbreaks of slapstick comedy...
Let's go fuck Bernanke - and quick!
tell him to purse that purty mouth and squeel!
At least we're not banksters... they're sick!
(Alternate ending)
I expect Lloyd and Jamie will be rushing to open a recruiting centre there shortly to avail themselves of the local talent pool...
..who did not care for his fellow Ik, not one little bit
Now I understand why state elected officials and workers have no problem raping and pillaging the taxpayers.
I see...
Iks number 1 had loaded up on silver
Iks number 2 didn't...
Iks number 1 doesn't give a fuck about Iks number 2 when inflation kicks him in the nuts.
but if you translate this to good 'ol western world it works like this....
Citizen Type #1 loaded up on silver (and gold and hard assets)
Citizen Type #2 didn't.
Citizen Type #2 gets kicked in the nuts with inflation, gets pissed, votes for the next politician who promises to redistribute the wealth from the Type #1's since they are 'hoarding' and going against the 'general welfare' of the population. All the wealth is destroyed, everyone dies, except for a few Citizen Type 1's who gave up some of their hard assets to escape. Unfortunately those type 1's lost the balance of their 'hoard' in terrible boating accidents while fishing for radioactive tuna to feed Citizen Type 2.
Movie quote time: "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you."
Actually, now that I think of it...I just might change my mind for the right slug.
Movie quote:
"I can't kill my friend." [Turns to henchmen]
"Kill my friend."
If we are, it's because TPTB want us that way.
And it's possible the Ik were tramatised into their Ikiness - there seems to be some controversy about how they ended up like that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ik_people#Community_structure
the foundation of all human progress, has been cooperation.
Yes, Manthong, we are all Iks now. At least the Iks (like the Honey Badger) understand what freedom is and just take what they want. It's not possible for any one man to do too much damage (e.g., Hitler) in their culture because they are not followers of war mongering manipulative "leaders", those who steal the rest of us blind (banksters/FED), etc. Our society has been shaped by those with the power to manipulate our environment and those in it... i.e., the sheeple. My guess is if you sent some sheeple over to Ik-land the Iks would kill the defenseless, dumb sheeple and go canniblistic on them - the end.
You beat me to it.
Human nature is to live off the labor of others, they dont buy into it.
Hahaha...the westerners might cooperate and pick off the Ik one by one in their isolation.
There's pretty good empirical evidence to that effect in the record too.
deleted ...
Ik or Detroit? Couldn't tell the difference.
Understand this about the Ik: The ones that survived were the most selfish. The ones that cared and share died.
Ich bin ein Ik!
I thought mine was good, but you get the prize.
your a black sheep amongst black sheep?
Please, just because you can not understand why someone feels a deep need to help others it does not mean they are brainwashed into feelings of obligation.
You sir are the one who seems to have been brainwashed into an Ik.
Or maybe you are just someone upon whom financial fortune fell and you find it safer to embrace the "brainwashed" meme to help you feel no tug of your conscience.
Note bene, just as the Ik can condition out emotions so too can one's soul & conscience be perverted and destroyed.
Good luck with the fantasy.
AMDG
I don't think that is what he said. It's not an obligation to each other that he questions, it's an obligation to a state. We could have a stateless society... that should be the goal.
ehhh...one world government...no thanks. I can already see the effects of thousands of governments
One world government? No, no, no, stateless mean zero states.
As for governments, well, you mean billions of them.
One person = One government
AKA, anarchy, no?
We can't have one though as long as tools like Simon keep asking the state for permission to live under it.
Truly walking away from the state is far, far different than running from one to the next the way he does.
That would seem to me to be the more appropirate criticism of Simon.
k, hope you take this the way it's meant - love your word "appropirate" - whether intentional or not - appropriate pirate!! I may just have to nick that!
agree with you both - and would just add, Mr. Black is in the business of making friends. . . hardly Ik-y.
Broaching the subject of "civil repsonsibility" after laying the ground work of brainwashing could be construed as a state argument. However civil responsibility by definition implies non-government action but rather good will of a society.
That said, I am hugely against state sponsored terrorism masquerading as entitlements and helping of others. Personally, education, healthcare and marriage are not rights. The gov., nor any citizen, has a moral right to take my property and give it to the benefit of another under the claim of the latter having a right to such. To do so is such a fundamental lie and evil as to put one in league with Satan himself...
Military, police and fire are however acceptable common good organizations in which taxation of all at equal levels, flat tax, is valid public benefit taxation.
Regardless, brainwashing has nothing to do with any of the above.
The concept of a stateless society is like claiming to be an atheist in a fox-hole when the shooting starts.... Good luck with it though when the proverbial non-combat sh1t hits the fan.
"Military, police and fire are however acceptable common good organizations in which taxation of all at equal levels, flat tax, is valid public benefit taxation. "
Huh? The police who are minutes away when seconds count and the firemen who compound the fire damage with water damage??
Fuck that shit. And that's a view from a gubbermint worker.
Amen, GubbermintWorker! I was recently abused by a gang of paramedics who felt they knew much better than I what was good for me. Truth is, it was a slow Tuesday night and there were way too many of them on staff; they felt the need to create work for themselves. One tried to tell me he was "saving my life", which was bullshit. I emphatically object to paying taxes to enable these clowns to be paid to live out their adolescent comicbook fantasies.
Would you agree to a tax on your land? Not your property, just your land which is owned by all the people.
Your "acceptable common good organizations" have morphed into monsters who pepper spray innocent coeds while they aren't beating people to death when they are bored with stealing people's money. I would gladly toss all of them and your slavery cheerleading in the garbage, for Liberty
The problem isn't with helping others or with charity. The problem arises when you want to force ME to pay for your pet causes. Perhaps I have my own causes, or perhaps I even might want to keep the fruits of MY labor.
The either/or option presented by the writer is a false choice, you are correct. Being empathic and generous to those in need is a virtue.
sschu
However, politicians have turn our empathy and generosity into national insolvency. It's one thing to give to the "less fortunate" out of the nation's bounty but quite another thing to pledge charity and welfare when $16 Trillion in debt and counting - when with 50% of federal spending going to social programs the debt service subtracts Trillions in principal and interest from what the future needy can ultimately receive from government.
Would emptying the inner cities of unemployed and underemployed and assigning their occupants to farms where they can grow their own food and build their own infrastructure - pull themselves up withouit waiting for a job to be created here instead of in China - would that be generous or evil?
it would actually be impossible, given corporate farming, or farming-by-subsidy is the current model.
and more fiat is donated to the corporate military & corporate pharma industries than actually gets to any humans as "generousity" - that being said, giving everyone "40 acres and a mule" as a one-time "benefit" - I'd like to see the results of that plan.
politicians have turn our empathy and generosity into national insolvency
Of course they have, and I agree that this is a disaster. Yes politicians get elected by promising goodies that many want but will not pay for. Some think that "fairness" or our empathy and generosity is demonstrated by taxing the "rich" to give to the "poor". That is not my view, forced charity is not charity at all, the recipient does not appreciate the gift, the taxed resents it and we go broke doing it. It really is not all that great now, is it.
sschu
http://www.longlongtimeago.com/llta_fables_antgrasshopper.html
Oh and one more thing, power and control corrupts.
like a mother would let go of her 3 year old voluntarily....
come on.
the essay from SM is totally out of context in relation to the IK.
Research Colin Turnbull (he made the Iks famous) and you soon find out that they behaved because they were fighting for personal survival, something we have not experienced in our lifetimes. so generalizing survival behaviour as a tribal characteristic is just moronic an ill thought.
SM, please do some more research before writing, else I can not take you seriously.
You're better off just not taking him seriously. Seriously.
The Ik are or were in Orlov's last stage of collapse. Didnt think I would ever see a real life example
Detroit's not that far from Cleveland, Joe.
It goes back to the still surviving eighteenth century reverse racism. Africa at a remove is a place of instructive fables. What is insane is that anyone experiencing mass immigration from africa can assure you that there is no connection between the barbarians at the gate and the fabulous tarzan-style fantasies of the storytellers.
I kicked my kids out at 3 but the wife just brought them back in...
You gotta drive them out into the countryside and then release them.
You will need a permit for birth and release ...
I am sorely disappointed to have made my way through a Sovereign Man post without finding a single reference to renouncing one's citizenship, foreign bank accounts, flying through international airports, Singapore, or living in an idyllic resort-like community overseas while the rest of the world burns. Come on, Sovereign Man, where's the consistency?
"we talked for hours about everything from second passports to the state of the economy to resilient communities."
Bullshit is his consistency constantly
Today's post is an exercise in philosophy.
Depends on what they are wearing. Leaves, ok, Naked, ok, Burkas, ok, Crucefix or Star of David, They need adjustment.
Maybe he had his passport revoked when he re-entered the country. Would explain the wistful tone.
All he wanted was just one lick......
So, they aren't Christians?
something like that
Uganda wish you had gold.
Uganda take the man out of Ik but Uganda take the Ik out of the man.
Uganda eat that bush baby or Uganda throw it away?
I get it. Kinda like this:
Alaska one more time. Are you really OK? Don't Juneau we are worried about you?
Don't Anchorage me. I will only get worse.
All the Ik immigrants to the USA musta settled in Compton
ROFL!
careful brother, the truth will set you Free!
That explains all the feral 3 year olds running around...however, their EBT cards suggest western influence is starting to rub off on them.
But you do realize that it's not the Ik's monies propelling those cards. It's your, mine, all our tax dollars doing it.
Trust me, as a tax payer, I'm very well aware of this..."I am the 51%".
"Westerners are brainwashed into believing that they have an obligation to someone who shares the same color passport…"
You need to talk to some Asians, Arabs, Jews, Turks...
"This is completely absurd. Human beings are born free. No one comes into this world with an obligation to serve some arbitrary political construct."
We're born extremely limited and learn the rest from an arbitrary political construct ('family' or 'community' or 'society', take your pick).
ahem, we are born as debt slaves to work on the plantation called the western world
Ik bin ein Berliner
What flavour?
Himbeer
Iks are pro-life. At least until they are 3 years of age.
I've always felt like a Currier and Ives man in an MTV world. Now I know I'm just an Ikian in a strange land.
So you're renouncing your citizenship in the Zulu nation? Chucky Schumer won't like that, you know.
Once you look past the facade of religion, civilisation, etc, one realises we are truly animals.
I know what I want.
David IcKE
http://www.davidicke.com/
Davos is a meeting of Ik minded individuals.
On a more serious note, someone needs to punch this SM guy in the nose, seriously. What a bunch of convoluted reasoning he packs around in his excuse for a brain.
We now know the place to recruit the next generation of pathologically qualified CEOs and banksters from.
I'm guessing the Ik don't have surnames like Pastuer, Lister, Volta, Newton, Edison?
Or Hitler, Caesar, Khan, Bonapart, Pizarro...
Or Smith, Young, Benson, Monson
But Morgan, Blankfein, Dimon, Rothschild, etc., are all quite common.
You should read Darwins account of the people of the Tierra Del Fuego. Very horrid types even worse than the Ik.
When hungry times occurred the grandmothers would run away and hide but they were often found and killed in horrible ways and eaten by the family. Children could have their heads bashed in for no reason just because daddy was mad and the body thrown to the mother to deal with
Edit. The grandmothers would be slow cooked alive by their families
Even better, slow, long heat seals the flavor in nicely.
Wendigo Meats LLC.
Lol apparently tierra del fuegians preferred slowly smoked meat. If granny was lucky she would die of smoke inhalation first
No no no, you must remove the bowels otherwise you taint the best meat.
How many of you on here have actually killed, cleaned and ate an animal, and im not talking about fish.
they would leave her belly meat and go for the back, hams and shoulders.
This is just market dynamics, Joe. When the price of Grammie in cold-cuts exceed her productive capacity as a worker, the rational consumer derives greater gains from eating her than making her do the laundry.
This is ultimately what the whole "free market everything" is about.
Market dynamics, OK. So grannie is only so old, what is her net present value? Since she's not ready for harvest, can we agree on a rate of appreciation, assuming we continue to feed her? Ahh, good. Now that we''ve agree on her NPV, the rate, and the term, you can harvest her now, even though she's only 23 years old. Pay up.
First, the description of the Ik you posted looks a lot like Tainter's. But Tainter also took it from Turnbull. And Turnbull's account has been highly criticized, and the truth of the Ik's way of living might be somewhat different and less extreme.
And second, as for your:
"And we can make these choices based on shared values and a common ideology… not some antiquated notion of nationality.
Last night in downtown Denver I was privileged to host one such network of like-minded individuals."
You surely mean rich people like yourself who end up being also like minded in their disregard for society as a whole. Oh there's been groups like these for ages non stop. Rich people colluding and protecting their narrow interest, to the detriment of everyone else...
> Rich people colluding and protecting their narrow interest, to the detriment of everyone else...
As opposed to the poor who would be very content with their "fair" part until they get a chance to get rich and then they'd become just like those rich.
I must say I don't see why only the rich would be interested in living free. Surely one's wealth can be better enjoyed within boundaries of modern society.
Detriment detriment what detriment??
SM is trying to survive in a harsh world where there are evildoers plotting to steal his, well, everything. These thieves, these plunderers are the ones without the slightest concern for their victims.
Point a gun in someone's face, plunder their property or kill them.
That is Government, the essense; the very the definition of Rich people colluding and protecting their narrow interest, to the detriment of everyone else...
Remember the days before the modern state? You probably read about them in school. There used to be something called feudalism. Destroy the state and you'll return right there.
It’s Not Like I Can Talk To My Neighbor About This Stuff…
...sayeth the man with no neighbors.
Community IS survival.
I feel Icky
It looks like our politicians are modeling our society on the Ik culture and succeeding
Don't say anything at those "sovereign" meetings you wouldn't want read to a jury...or a tribunal.
The point of the commentary, which doesnt appear well recieved is - why should we pay for stuff for people who we are ideologically opposed to, just because they claim to belong to our national group.
Or more succintly - why should I give people my money, whom I would feel far better about punching in the face repeatedly.
Socialism is communism with a rebranding - if you want communism, then you agree that the people who work hard and produce stuff should be robbed so that the non productive elements can get free stuff. Anyone supporting such a screwed up idea is morally bankrupt - and is probably recieving the 'free stuff'.
Once you get rid of socialism - the family unit becomes closer and far stronger - this unit is the basis of community - people who want the state to replace family are in the least misguided.
Whew ... what a relief. For a sec there I thought he was gonna tell me to buy land in Uganda. Shit, I can hardly keep Jenna Bush happy sharecropping my land in Paraguay as it is. What with my gold in Zurich, my checking account in Cyprus, my, mail drop in Mongolia, and my family in Chile.
Hell, I'm so spread out and "free" I don't talk to anybody anyway. WTF, am I an IK?
http://vegasxau.blogspot.com
From the Wall Street Crash of 1929 to the Global Financial Crisis of 2007
It all started with the big crisis of 1929. The American economy reached a deadlock because of its social "pathogenesis"; a deadlock that led it to economic crisis in a different - faster- pace than the rest of the industrial forces of that time. Important decisions had to be made - mostly social - and the Whites didn't like that, especially the Whites' rulers, the Anglo-Saxons. The USA society had to either be homogenized and "forget" about racism against black people or find itself in a permanent deadlock that would threaten it with social uprising. If they didn't equate the black working people with their white colleagues so that there wouldn’t be an issue with the salaries that threatened the national currency, they couldn't avoid reactions and all that goes with it.
The problem which began as social but was turning into economic was simple. As long as the economy functioned adequately and the Blacks worked and asserted what they deserved for their work, the white employers had to "fund" the white working force with extra money because of their skin color. To avoid complaints from a white worker who received the same salary with his black colleague, the employers had no choice but to give them more money. The demands of the Blacks were used as an excuse by the Whites to demand more and everything ended up in the same pocket, since they were under the same employ. The problem that arose from this "strange" tactic was that the increased takings of the "superior" White employers were seeking outlet in investments and that threatened the capital. Having higher salaries, they bought more houses; they bought stocks and so on.
www.eamb-ydrohoos.blogspot.com/2010/02/ten-plagues-of-pharaoh.html
Authored by Panagiotis Traianou
Now I know the Iks were the original Spartans, those whom the US pioneers look up to.
Ayn Rand was an Ik lost in Russia who refound herself in the US.
and changed her name from rosenbaum to rand whilst admiring serial killers.
talk about an ick.
Only since you mentioned Rand, here is an excerpt from The Fountainhead [comments in brackets] LOL...
The name of the game is: the individual against the collective.
The ’common good’ of a collective -- a race [including male versus female], a class, a state [nationalism worshipped through the Olympics or Eurovision is great] -- was the claim and justification of every tyranny ever established over men. Every major horror of history was committed in the name of an altruistic motive [like the Iraq War was for Iraqi freedom and democracy]. Has any act of selfishness ever equaled the carnage perpetrated by disciples of altruism? Does the fault lie in men’s hypocrisy or in the nature of the principle? The most dreadful butchers were the most sincere. They believed in the perfect society reached through the guillotine and the firing squad. Nobody questioned their right to murder since they were murdering for an altruistic purpose [could this be someone like Robespierre and the French Revolution, for example]. It was accepted that man must be sacrificed for other men. Actors change, but the course of the tragedy remains the same. A humanitarian who starts with declarations of love for mankind and ends with a sea of blood. It goes on and will go on so long as men believe that an action is good if it is unselfish. That permits the altruist to act and forces his victims to bear it. The leaders of collectivist movements ask nothing for themselves [notice that these leader like to say "we" need to do this and that meaning "you all" need to do this and that while I benefit from your sacrifices]. But observe the results. The only good which men can do to one another and the only statement of their proper relationship is -- Hands off!
It is an ancient conflict. Men have come close to the truth, but it was destroyed each time and one civilization fell after another. Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage’s whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of HIS tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
Now, in our age, collectivism, the rule of the second-hander and second-rater, the ancient monster, has broken loose and is running amuck. It has brought men to a level of intellectual indecency never equaled on earth. It has reached a scale of horror without precedent. It has poisoned every mind. It has swallowed most of Europe. It is engulfing our country [when was The Fountainhead written?].
... No one is responsible. No one is to be accountable. Such is the nature of all collective action.
At the end of the day, Simon Black is still ultimately running from one collective country to another hoping to find less tyranny to an individual.
At the end of the day, Simon Black is still ultimately running from one collective country to another hoping to find less tyranny to an individual.
It's not like he knows anything about "tyranny," though.
There's a real problem with the screeds of the wealthiest about how oppressed and tyrannized they are--their only experience and conception of tyranny is taxation. Most people don't enjoy taxation, but it's self-indulgence to the level of infantilism to complain that their ability to enjoy 50 or 1000 times the average level of wealth is being threatened or destroyed by the forces of evil.
It just all rings hollow. Love of money is more than a heresy--it's inherently anti-human.
Is there anyone who'd actually want a person like Simon Black as a neighbor? What do you think he would he say if you wanted to borrow a cup of sugar, or were looking for your missing pet?
Fair enough regarding tyranny for some people. However, I would add that there is a difference between the "process of becoming wealthy" (whether it was achieved via honest and real earnings versus corrupt means) and the "issue of taxation" (being a moral issue). I would consider them two slightly different issues.
I do understand/agree that most of the present-day rich probably did not honestly earn their wealth as well as the love of money as anti-human. In fact Rand would agree regarding those who love money. They don't technically love money be instead they are selfless, second-handers who actually hoard money for fame and recognition from others (to make the Forbes list, etc.). They do not undertand that their greatness should become from within and having a self/ego and instead requires other people's opinions of them and thus they seek ever more money while never finding happiness and realizing the satisfaction of true self-worth.
What should we expect when our money which should be a store of labor is manipulated and thus everything ends up mispriced or misvalued including what people are paid not just the price of goods and services?
Aside from the moral question of taxation (I'd argue that nothing should be taken by force but save that for another day and let's play along with having taxes), tax laws like government laws, are hardly ever consistent. Would it be too much to ask for consistency in government laws as well as in tax laws? Taxes and government are all about creating ever more laws. Even at best our Founding Fathers gave us all men (of course, we should assume and include all humans as individuals, regardless of what collective group someone may want to divide us into) were created morally equal but then continued on to mess things up when instead they should have just stopped right there. The rest of US history has more or less only been a piling on of ever more laws of contradictions and exceptions. For example, let's have taxes for everyone but then we later get except John gets to pay less because of which group he belongs to as well as Jane gets this credit for doing something else. I see most laws as being exceptions to some other law generally speaking.
Most people don't expect Statists or even just those who see the State as a necessary evil to predict the future and have all the answers to the what if's. Should this expectation be expected of anarchists (there are different types/degrees as well) who believe in the individual over the collective mindset as well?
I'm not exactly anybody's fan 100% inlcuding Simon Black. But I also wouldn't necessarily discredit everything he is writing either.
Mr. Black has obviously never lived in a condo and witnesses first hand how most people like to govern others when there is just a contract and no legal recourse for the "free" individual.
What exactly is Mr. Black wanting to do that he is not free to do in the U.S.?
I'm self employed and pay taxes, but I can't remember the last time my government kept me from doing something I wanted to do ---and I live in California. I rather like the freedom I have to walk into any store in the state, hand them a paper bill that somebody earlier gave me for my services, and in return get food, clothing, supplies --- and all with a smile from a clerk who is similarly civilized. What is so terrible about this place that some of you here are apparently willing to return to a state of nature to avoid?
The only states of nature I see today are in Northern Mexico, Sudan, Somalia and other wonderful places where life is, indeed, nasty, brutish and short.
A support group in Denver for "Sovereign Man" individualist?
How pathetic is that.....
.
does anyone else see the condradictions in this meeting of "sovereign men" in denver?
make up your minds; are you alone or in a group, and if youre in a group for what exactly?
face ripping
ah that feels better
This guy is full of cr@p about the Ik people and let me see any of these like-minded imbeciles survive even a single winter living in Colorado. Not a single one of them will.
Survivalist fantasy/nonsense on here never ceases to amaze me. My favorite was the guy who was on here posting on barter trade with no experience or survival skills.
Ugandorado vs. Coloranda? WTF? Are srurvival skills the same in each place?
Every man for himself? Excuse me while I take some bath salts and go naked face-eating zombie on some hapless passerby...
The real point here is the freedom to go it alone vs. being told to participate.
The choice should be yours. If you want to help you neighbor is should be your choice and not a compulsory law by the government. We are being forced into the collective faster and further than many of us want to go. I help my neighbors and community but I am not interested in being put on the hook to help those in California, Iraq, Italy, Sudan, etc. If we choose to help that should be our ......choice but I should not have to help the city of Detroit because you want to or think I should. It is my FREEDOM to choose ........or at least it was at one time.
I have neighbors that live responsibly and get down from time to time (as we all do) and I am glad to lend a hand. I have neighbors that are irresponsible deadbeats who always need someone to "bail" their asses out. I freely choose not to assist (enable) them in their foolishness. Comrade Obama and his followers would demand that I help and if I don't well they will come by force and take from me to give to them. THAT IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE WORLD TODAY. Freedom is the ability to choose not have the choice made for you.
I am sovereign when it comes to what is mine. May God grant me wisdom to make wise choices with it before the communist take it for the good of the state.
One of the cool results of choice is that others will realize that their bad behavior will lead to starvation, so charity leads to better outcomes overall.
In other words, the alms come with the condition that you are seen as at least not destructive to society.
While on the other hand, the government hands out the goodies without regard to behavior. And worse to simply to buy votes.
Which is why it is sometimes suggested that you lose the vote when you go on the government dole.
God, can't the fucking Ik thing die? In anthropology this has been proven again and again as a farce. The anthropologist didn't know what the fuck he was talking about, and his results weren't replicable. But like Pandora's box, the idea of a culture without cooperation or reciprocity won't die, and most people will believe it in some mythological way. For the dedicated empiricist ZH reader, know that this study has been discredited time and time again. Simon Black, please focus all of your mental resources on getting something right, you are consistently full of shit re: your social opining.
Dude, relax, if it weren't for the Ik, we'd never have discovered the Laffer Curve.
Fair enough. There are enough farces around that debunking them all is impossible. I suppose we should just carry on!
Or modern portfolio theory.
The Ik also built the space shuttle - Nasa (as usual) stole it...
(rumour has it, they built Ben's printer...)
I have been talking to my neighbors about this stuff, and you would be surprised at how many agree. But you'll never find out unless you talk to them, and talking to neighbors these days is almost anachronistic.
You, yes you, ''sovereign'' bitchez, lol... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp3yxUH5LR8
...you talk to your food, don't you? Lol... ...and even if it talks back, you shall eat it. LMAO, face eaters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a1psxa2lCM&feature=BFa&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CbzEJtMy0FuDtejYGtmhsg
...but I get your point Lol. http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/05/26/number-of-the-week-half-of-u-s-lives-in-household-getting-benefits/
Fact is, we can feed everyone, but that is not the case, is it? Lol. I wonder, why? Lol.