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Guest Post: Libya - Doomed From Day One

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Jen Alic of,

People often ask me why the West doesn’t attempt a Libya-style intervention in Syria. After all, things are going so well in Libya. Oil production is up. But oil production is merely a mirage, as is security in Libya, which was doomed from the day one PG (post-Gaddafi) because of the way it was “liberated”.

On Wednesday, US envoy to Libya Christopher Stevens was killed along with three other American diplomats in a rocket attack on the US consulate in Benghazi.

What about the oil, that global elixir? Well, the violence will not bode well for Libya’s production ambitions, coming at a time when the country looked prepared for a boost in output and was banking on this for economic growth.

Security was already dubious at best, and now international oil companies will be more reluctant than ever. Those that are already there—Germany’s Wintershall AG, Italy’s Eni and France’s Total—will be seeking to beef up security and have already started sending some of their workers home.

If the picture was not clear from the onset of the post-Gaddafi atmosphere, it certainly came into focus earlier this summer when protests over parliamentary elections forced the temporary closure of the el-Sider oil terminal, the country’s biggest.  

Anyone who thinks that Libya will be a secure oil frontier after the formation of a new government next summer is mistaken. The road to destruction runs from Afghanistan to Benghazi (incidentally, the oil-producing region), branching off to southern Iraq and Pakistan’s tribal regions.

So, you ask, what about the controversial anti-Islamic movie apparently put together by an Israeli-American real estate developer with too much time on his hands?

According to Jellyfish Operations - a private intelligence and analysis boutique that has spent much time dissecting the intervention in Libya and the conflict in Syria—the anti-Islamic movie is a red herring in all of this.

Speaking to, Jellyfish President Michael Bagley said that while the movie is being upheld as the root cause of the intensifying protests and the death of the US envoy to Libya, it has only served to give added momentum to another more important development.

“The key to all of this is al-Qaeda’s second in command, Abu Yahya al-Libi, who was killed by a US drone attack in Waziristan on 4 June,” Bagley said. “The real catalyst for the attack in Libya and the unrest that has spread to Yemen, was a lengthy video released by al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri, marking the anniversary of 9/11 and admitting to the death of al-Libi, who is Libyan.”

“This was a very powerful call to avenge al-Libi’s death,” Bagley said, “and it came only 24 hours before the attack on the US consulate in Benghazi.”

To put this into perspective, let’s reminisce a bit about al-Libi, whose past is a roller coaster, enemy-foe ride with the US.

Al-Libi was captured in the “war on terrorism” in Afghanistan in 2002 and held for three years in Kabul’s high-security Bagram prison. Against all odds, he escaped in 2005.

In 2011 he resurfaced again, but this time as a friend to Washington who had decided that it was no longer friends with Gaddafi, despite all the efforts leading up to this to rebuild relations after that nasty Lockerbie business and all the sanctions. So here is al-Libi again, but this time around his terrorist inclinations are a bonus rather than a liability: He fights alongside intervention forces to oust Gaddafi.

With Gaddafi gone, al-Libi once again became a liability so he was taken out by a drone in Pakistan. 

This brings us back to the present, with al-Zawahiri on the rampage and Libyan’s wise to their liberators.

“This is a cut and dry example of the backfire of the US intervention strategy,” Bagley said. “Let’s hope it isn’t attempted in Syria.”

The post-Gaddafi Libya is not real. It’s a dangerous fabrication of materials stuck together by the glue of dubious alliances with jihadists who are cut loose with their weapons once the immediate goal (Gaddafi’s demise) was achieved. Forget about the oil for now.


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Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:05 | 2803927 chumbawamba
Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:08 | 2803936 knukles
knukles's picture

"Bomb 'em back into the stone age"
                    -Gen. Cutris LeMay

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:16 | 2803962 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture


"The top commander in Iran's powerful Revolutionary Guard warned Sunday that his country's missiles will ensure "nothing will remain" of Israel if it takes military action against Tehran over its controversial nuclear program. Gen. Mohammad Ali Jafari also warned that Iran might close the Straits of Hormuz if it is attacked, withdraw from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and hit U.S. bases in the Middle East."

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:18 | 2803974 pasco35
Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:26 | 2804012 Taterboy
Taterboy's picture

When the "Arab Spring" started, I turned to my cat Tater and said,"Tater,we are going to look back fondly on the days of Mubarek and even that 'wild and crazy guy' Gadaffi." Tater, being the political genius he is, nodded in agreement.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:42 | 2804079 Unbezahlbar
Unbezahlbar's picture

"Winning their hearts and minds, one at a time."


GWB, 2005

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:18 | 2803975 Taterboy
Taterboy's picture

They are already in the stone age.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:06 | 2804464 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

"People often ask me why the West doesn't attempt a Libya-style intervention in Syria."

The only thing "people often ask me for" is spare change.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:09 | 2803938 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

It's too advanced for most of you.  Don't be swine when pearls are cast before you.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:26 | 2804014 Michael
Michael's picture

Saved for later viewing today you who are Chumbawamba. Thanks for the link.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:29 | 2804023 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Of course the Islamic movie is a red herring.  Islam itself is a red herring, as are all religions.  And I don't mean that in a "hey, I had an epiphany the other day" kind of way.  As a matter of fact, ALL religions are manufactured from fairy tales, myths and legends as a prophylactic to keep men in their respective places, i.e. away from the true centers of power and wisdom.

Humans are such gullible animals.  It takes truly a freak of nature to see through the multiple veils of illusion within which we are ensconced.  Otherwise, the only time we could be blessed with such divine vision as is required to know the Truth is to be in an altered state of mind, ideally one induced by a serotonin receptor agonist (look it up).  But of course, those substances are illegal, and for good reason: YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:46 | 2804075 Michael
Michael's picture

To me the religion happy horseshit is a given. At least their not letting a good Youtube video go to waste.

I am experienced.  I know what the frequency is. I'm tuned into it.


They took out some of the Iranian nuclear stuff with their Star Wars Toys.


9/11 - Explosive Evidence - Experts Speak Out, Full-length

Dr. Judy Wood - Where Did the Towers Go?

Organic matter reacts differently then in-organic matter when subject to a directed specific type of energy wave. Sort of like that which comes from a Star Trek Phaser. Think Tesla influence.

There were TWO types of demolition techniques used on the World Trade Center Towers on 9/11.

When I release specific info like this, I spread it far and wide to where they would have to shut down the entire Internet to get rid of it.

Twenty-five years after Reagan's Star Wars speech

Reagan launches SDI

(Star Wars-Ronald Reagan ) Strategic Defense Initiative - SDI

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:44 | 2804084 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

The only way an activity dedicated towards spreading a moral code and demanding such a code be acted upon... "thou shalt not kill" for turned into the exact opposite is because false God's are put before human kind...not God himself. Unless of course you're arguing "Hitler and Stalin were just peacenik hippies having a bad stretch...

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:08 | 2804175 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

So...  we have millions of people prescribed the truth through antidepressants?  Seems inconsistent no?

The other issue is that advocating mind altering drugs to "see the truth" tends to date you more than a little...  it stinks to high hell of a hippie burnout.  The truth is that drugs distort reality...  and if you're looking for the truth, then you'll need to do it sober.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:18 | 2804232 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Here's a clue Randy Savage: you aren't going to find it in law school.  In fact, you guys are the most blinded of all.


Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:22 | 2804252 Michael
Michael's picture

I have 30 years of experience as a Machinist.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:41 | 2804333 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Reminds me of brick:

Brian Fantana: Don't get me wrong, I love the ladies. I mean they rev my engines, but they don't belong in the newsroom.
Champ Kind: It is anchor*man*, not anchor*lady*. And that is a scientific fact.
Brick Tamland: I don't know what we're yelling about.
Brian Fantana: You're with us, Ron, what do you think?
Ron Burgundy: [shouting] She... Sh... It's terrible. She has beautiful eyes, and her hair smells like cinnamon.
Brick Tamland: [shouts] Loud noises.


Mon, 09/17/2012 - 23:27 | 2805990 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Any Asperger's syndrome in your family?

In case you are wondering, that's a compliment from me.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:36 | 2804316 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Care to address the substance?

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:25 | 2804555 Michael
Michael's picture

Not an attack. I admire your postings, usually.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:34 | 2804309 Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

I respectfully disagree.  "Sober" is one of literally hundreds of layers of consciousness, and thus not necessarily better or worse than any other form.

While I don't dispute the idea that poisons are bad for the body, I also think discarding whatever insight gleaned from alternative levels of consciousness is like ignoring entire sections of the library when doing research.

The mind is as unique as the individual.  I don't believe sobriety necesarily precedes truth.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:53 | 2804393 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

You're stretching... 

here is the comment by chumba: Otherwise, the only time we could be blessed with such divine vision as is required to know the Truth is to be in an altered state of mind, ideally one induced by a serotonin receptor agonist (look it up).

Sure...  it's possible to gain insight from drug induced experiences...  no dispute there.  However, it's complete and total bullshit to claim that it is the ONLY way to know the truth.  You're stretching here to agree with chumba without scrutinizing what he's writing...

Sobriety absolutely, positively, does not necessitate knowing the truth...  (no one advocated this).  However, I completely dispute that drug use makes anyone more creative, wise, or knowing.  You want to know what collective drug use gets?  (other than soccer moms in fender benders and a compliant society).  It gets CLICHE art...  it gets humans discussing common drug experiences instead of the human experience.  It's a total misdirection.  It then becomes a religion because it's never scrutinized...  

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:12 | 2804491 Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

"The truth is that drugs distort reality...  and if you're looking for the truth, then you'll need to do it sober."

Am I also misinterpreting what you said above?  Sounds like you're advocating sobriety as the only way to experience truth, but we could be splitting hairs.

(I do agree with your assessment of my earlier response re: Chumba stating certain drugs are the only way to know truth)

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:28 | 2804568 Michael
Michael's picture

It's a little easier if you have help sometimes.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 16:30 | 2804833 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I think the bigger issue with drug experiences is the answer to the following question: "could I have made these same insights while sober?"  I think the answer is a resounding yes.  There are countless artists who can still muster enough courage to dominate their medium while sober... [and who made sober works every bit as good as their drug counterparts during periods of sobriety].

I think there is also a real cause and effect rationalization to drug use.  A person begins taking drugs to socialize, get over stage jitters, etc.  The thing is, the person was already creative to get to that point in the first place...  You hear of many artists stating things like "If I quit drugs, then I won't be creative anymore."  Well, that's simply addict behavior attempting to justify continued use...  this tends to get repeated throughout the masses with a bit of a different message.

The thing is, creative people often times do drugs at the same time they can produce their best work.  It's easier to justify running ourselves down if there is some worthwhile creative purpose...  In reality, it's just an excuse for drug seeking behavior.  However, that doesn't stop us from attempting to correlate their best works to their drug use...

I'll posit that drugs have never created a single piece of art nor insight.  Even if we accept that drug use fosters realization, then it still takes sobriety before that realization is able to be interpreted and/or put to practical use...  granted, drug experiences can compound upon one another, but in the end, reflection is something that has to be experienced post trip.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 17:16 | 2805018 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

...could I have made these same insights while sober?

Maybe.  Maybe not.  But in a world where mind control is overtly practiced by the powers that are in charge?  Extremely doubtful.

Also, I'm not saying you probably never took drugs, but I will posit in return that you probably never enjoyed any.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 17:52 | 2805120 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Is this statement limited to hallucinogens?  Regardless, I never inhaled.

The other issue is that you're stating that we're under control from drugs + media, etc., but yet you're advocating us to use more drugs to break our drug induced coma.  I guess I'm of the mindset that a bit of sobriety is the answer.  This isn't a battle of the drugs...  ultimately, all are used to coerce and corrupt.  You might be able to experiment on your own and come to some unique insights, but is the juice worth the squeeze?

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 09:51 | 2806719 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

"is the juice worth the squeeze?"

if taken with the reverence & sobriety that Aura outlines above, indeed.  MM, you really should consider that whether we consciously realize it or not, on a very critical level, our entire lives are driven by the plant world.   we should never forget that.    all plants are "drugs" or rather, what they are considered by many cultures, medicine.   

it's that they are not considered medicine, except when they're synthesized and/or their molecular components tweaked by scientists in employ of the pharmas in order to amp their addictive properties, is why we're having this debate in the first place.

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 10:26 | 2806860 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

This is really a misnomer.  You're shaping the argument into a completely different one than the initial statements presented by chumba...  The simle fact is that we have commonly prescribed medications that perform seratonin functions similar to those of naturally occurring hallucinogens.  The question is thus, how can THEY be keeping us from the truth when they  commonly prescribe it?  Complete and total inconsistency...  (otherwise known as bullshit).  Where there is no conspiracy, I must create one!

OK.  So because plants are part of the cycle of life, they must necessarily show us some higher level of consciousness?  Present us with some truth otherwise unknowable to the conscious brain?  Again, total bullshit.  This is simply an excuse to experiment with drugs.  I don't have any problem with drugs and I think they should all be legalized (especially natural ones), however if consciousness was really evolved through drug use, why can't I take them and become creative?  become wise?  become more knowledgeable?  And please don't give me any nonsense about a shaman stuffing salvia up my ass and curing my constapation through finding me in the "other" world.  It's nothing short of a placebo.

I think you're giving vastly too much credit to what drugs can provide to the brain...  for some people, drugs offer a gateway into a more creative world...  often times barred through some type of mental barrier of the user (anxiety, brainwashing, etc.).  For some of these people, it might actually expand consciousness.  However, critital thinking ability, among other things, tends to be...  pushed to the backside in these episodes.  We're often left with a surreal experience and then attempt to construct a redneck engineered (duct dape + bailing wire) and sadly desperate bridge between the experience and our normal state.  The only difference between dreams and hallucinated experiences is that we are often times able to maintain a different level of consciousness (more awake) through the drug experience...  that doesn't make the "truths" attempted to be extracted from the experience any more real.  The other issue is that just like normal life, there are an incredible amount of red herrings and experiences that are irrelevant to a higher level of understanding...  we're stuck in the same boat attempting to determine which coincide with an objective reality we'll never know.

Again, I'll posit that hallucinogenic drug use rarely, if ever, truthfully starts out as an attempt to gain a higher understanding of the world...  it's simply an ex post facto label in an attempt to justify the experience.    

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 10:55 | 2814986 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

i happen to agree with many of your arguments Savage, especially after listening to this:

and if i could make an assumption, i would say that what you're reacting harshly to is the tendency to define these altered states as "higher", thus making the assumption that those who choose not to partake are somehow stuck in a "lower" state of consciousness (the sober sheeple/new age hierarchy argument).   

that is most definitely a mistake methinks, and one that those who believe in such will have to confront within themselves, else they get locked into a "higher" state of prison disguised as paradise.   this may be coming down the pike much sooner than many around are willing to consider.

nonetheless, i don't think it's a stretch to consider that we have all been conditioned to think in patterns that keeps our mind from reaching its full potential.   some of us more than others due to the amount and type of "education" that we received.   certain "drugs" (as you call them) allow some of us to snap out of those habitual patterns for a moment to experience other patterns of thought, IF taken with proper intention and attention.    that does not discount the need for hard work to weave those experiences carefully & thoughtfully back into our "reality" in order for the experience to become therapeutic.    of course, most fail to do that and escape into a myriad of other destructive habitual patterns.

and yes, plants are not the only juice, and if you don't feel they're right for you, then it's not right for you.   the point is to provide the juice, not to bicker over what juice to use.   sensory depravation is another juice, so perhaps you should consider following your advice to CA and lock yourself in a closet for a long weekend with some "dirty" socks :)

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 18:14 | 2805226 Michael
Michael's picture

Then MM,

How do we counteract the effects of Fluoride, GMOs, and Vaccines that were given to us unknowingly?

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 10:34 | 2806885 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Ok, so your theory is that we need to take hallucinogens to counteract flouride, genetically modified crops, and vaccines?  Do you have any proof to back up your theory?  My guess would be that many of the drugs would actually exacerbate any existing conditions presented by these items...  driving you deeper into psychosis and making "the plan" even more suggestible to your numbed brain. 

as for the flouride...  quit fucking taking it...  your body will do the rest.

as for GMOs...  probably unavoidable and I think, in large part, their bark is worse than the bite...  otherwise, get some heirloom varieties and hope to hell you can actually get them to produce worth a shit...  again, after a while, your body will do the rest.

vaccines are a different ballgame...  not much to do there...  quit worrying about it and don't give your kids the vaccines you're uncomfortable with...  nothing you can do at this point.  Needless to say, more than a few folks who managed to see the light have been administered dirty vaccines... 

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 21:28 | 2805791 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

I have add and can only think straight and hence see the truth when i smoke pot.

So i guess it all depends on the individual and not the drugs.

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 10:37 | 2806894 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

pot isn't a hallucinogen...  this is exactly what chumba doesn't want you to say...  the simple fact is that many of the people that need drugs for creativity or to break through adhd, anxiety, etc. can do so through simply smoking some pot...  (I'll posit that you can probably accomplish the same thing through diet and exercise, but those require more work).  You don't need to hear the tree weep or watch blood drip down the stop sign to utilize the creative portions of your brain...

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 00:08 | 2806064 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

there can be a world of difference between using "drugs" to party, get high, be creative, hang out with pals, write music, do art. . .

. . .and using plant substances with ritual and respect to gain information not readily available to the mind while stuck in a matrix of agreed upon layers of falsehoods.

pharma, street drugs, etc. can be harsh experiences, and are most often used by people whose minds are dense with cultural information.

but expansive, enhanced awareness aided by specifically chosen plants, etc. does work, particularly if the person has prepared their mind/reality in acceptance of the information available to them.

the mind is the vehicle.  the plant is the juice.

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 10:46 | 2806934 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

can you describe, in detail, these tidbits of knowledge that can only be gained through using plant substances with "ritual and respect"?

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 11:07 | 2807016 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

. . .I could, but then I'd have to kill you. . .

seriously MM, people describe "tidbits of knowledge" here, and everywhere, all day, every day.  if one's mind doesn't find these tidbits compelling enough to look into, or more often, discards them as peripheral non-sense, then no connection is made.

you know this, I know this.  follow your nose, see where it goes.


“Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behaviour and information processing. They open you up to the possibility that everything you know is wrong.”
? Terence McKenna

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 14:00 | 2807777 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

If one already leaves an introspective life, then what is the marginal benefit of hallucinogens?  It just seems to me that no one is discussing the real tradeoff here.  That for each and every trip, we drift further and further away from our present reality.  At some cursory level, we may tap into some previously unknown insights (again, I dispute they're only knowable through drug use, but I digress).  However, at some more advanced level, we may lose our grasp with reality entirely.  There is no guaranty on any trip that it won't be your last shove off from reality.  Obviously the risks can be incredibly curtailed with dosage, environment, type of hallucinogen, etc., but still.  We are still forced, even through a drug induced trip, to filter our experience.  I contend this filtering process/investigation can only fruitfully occur while sober, thus making it a very necessary component of the endeavor.  At any rate, I think it's disengenuous to only talk about the positive aspects... 

I'll also posit that the refusal to explain the truths learned is evidence of the bullshit nature of it all...  realistically, most people who describe their experiences tend to explain the same things over and over...  leaving a very cliche picture for others [enter countless drug songs here]. 

I think the other pressing issue in all of this is that if the experience itself wasn't intrinsically enjoyable, it would never happen.  In other words, even if one gains no knowledge from the endeavor, it is still entertaining/feels good/etc.  I'll posit that this is the real motivation for the endeavor, but again, I digress.  [it's not like going to the gym and lifting all the weights in the place until you can no longer move, other than to throw up...  you don't see people taking hallucinogens as though training for a marathon, quiz bowl, or anything of the sort].

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 15:55 | 2808303 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

natural entheogens (differentiating between synthetics) have a long history of humans using them for information gathering, healing, etc.

That for each and every trip, we drift further and further away from our present reality.

which is perhaps the intention, for some at least. . . whose reality is being referenced here?  whose reality is supported by which culture(s) as ultimate truth (a piece of the pie is the whole pie?)? 

folks who choose to party with "drugs" mostly get the experience they sign up for, their mind does the job for them, as do their surroundings, and peer group that joins them. . . it's not the same thing as approaching the plant with an open mind, and a desire for greater awareness - in other words, a desire to expand the present reality to include a greater reality.

I do understand what you're saying MM, it's just that my experience conflicts with your point of view.

take care.

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 16:59 | 2808492 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Right, but historically speaking, you're going to run into the mystical shaman who uses salvia to find a patient's body in the spirit world and heal it, thus healing it in the "real" world too...  or the little coca chewing before the rain dance...  opium general problem solvers...  or what the fuck ever nonsense people previously attributed real information to drug induced idiocy/religious experience.

Yes, obviously some plants heal people...  no question there.  But you're not addressing the underlying incentives prevalent in drug users.  That is, people do it because it feels good...  they like the trip.  You're telling me that you just want to experience the plant and you do so with this inhuman ability to transcend stereotypes and common knowledge and mate with the spirit world.  I'm telling you that you're full of shit.  You're just trying to convince me of a reason for your drug use (someone who doesn't care if you use drugs btw...).  I'll posit that if the experience was bad for you...  that it gave you nightmares, made you bleed out of places that aren't supposed to bleed, and generally made you feel bad, that you wouldn't do it...  you wouldn't dare attempt this magical journey into the things that sober humans somehow cannot find.  Can you at least admit that you enjoy taking hallucinogens?

total bullshit.

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 20:58 | 2809225 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

you're still going with the "drug user" analogy, and telling me that folks like to get high - well duh!

and I'm telling you that there are alternative ways to approach using plants as medicine, and for increasing awareness of the totality of reality, not specialising in the bit your mind corrals and accepts and manipulates to your (supposed) advantage. 

as to "mating with the spirit world" and the rest of your "hippy" accusations, you speak from your truth.  you don't know mine, and I daresay at this stage in your life, you don't have the capacity to realise this.  but I can say with certainty,  your reality does not include mine, yet my world does include yours.


Wed, 09/19/2012 - 14:18 | 2810730 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Well, if you're simply talking about "plants" in general for medicinal purposes, well...  we're in agreement...  however, the plant world is filled with both beneficial and harmful things.  And, even for the good plants, there can be too much of a good thing as well as inherent tradeoffs in benefits versus costs.

And while you might be an island unto yourself (statistics never have anything necessarily to do with YOU in particular), I dare say that if plants as readily available as we're discussing had truly profound impacts upon consciousness, awareness, wisdom, or pretty much anything (other than becoming a degenerate), then the effects would simply be more obvious.  The fact that you hide behind your unique mysticism and vagueness is cause for concern for the rest of us about your credibility...  not an indication that you've found a treasure map and don't want to share.  Nice try though.

The other problem you run into is the multiple reality paradox... aka, the Philip K. Dick story.  Once you start traversing multiple planes of consciousness, it becomes difficult to discern which is real.  Take too many trips, and you may lose the ability to make this determination.  While it might seem like we discover an entirely new world, this world may only be a fictional one...  dancing around our brain rather than our objective reality.  [note: this is also why when anyone tries to describe the trips and/or explain why or how any new knowledge was gained it quickly devolves into jibberish and rarely, if ever, manages to bridge the gap, although, I commend you for not attempting this, knowing these limitations].  

Wed, 09/19/2012 - 15:19 | 2812401 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I was unclear as to your use of "you" - for a few sentences at least,

The fact that you hide behind your unique mysticism and vagueness is cause for concern for the rest of us about your credibility...  not an indication that you've found a treasure map and don't want to share.  Nice try though.

while I appreciate your, and the other "us" 's referenced by you, concern for my cred here, which of course is reflected in my desire for cred amongst the titty-avatars and "bitchez" comments waving the amrkn flag for WAR just now. . .

you (perhaps collectively) continually miss any points I'm attempting to make, simply because your (plural?) reality won't ALLOW you any other.  that's not my (singular) problem, but it is yours if you want to cultivate an awareness of the whole picture, and not just your corner of the human map.

MM, your insistence on "real" being a universal archetype, a "one truth" that makes all the other truths FALSE is what prevents you from the awareness that there are multiple co-existing realities, and they are available, but dependent on the individual mind acknowledging the possibility of their existence.  c'mon, this is pretty basic stuff - why complicate it?

Once you start traversing multiple planes of consciousness, it becomes difficult to discern which is real. Take too many trips, and you may lose the ability to make this determination. 

I don't "trip" (are you referencing acid? I was never drawn to trying it),  but I am still aware that what "is real" *cough* is not agreed upon universally - so are you saying YOU are real in your beliefs of reality, and OTHERS are wrong?  or un-real?  think about this. . . it's a universally observed fallacy, to believe your beliefs are the only truth of reality, and that everyone else, billions of 'em, are mis-taken.  it's so fuckin' UN-REAL.

but back to my secret treasure map.  in fact, I've shared the map co-ordinates that I used, and I freely acknowledge that there are INFINITE maps available, as long as one is looking for the treasure that in-cludes all thoughts, all beliefs, all humans, all worlds. . .

reading, listening to multiple teachers of multiple perspectives, lived and experienced over time, plant entheogens in ceremony, music, lyrics, but ultimately, the desire to understand and know - that was/is my map. 

if one does not desire to know, and believes one has already found the truth, then the mind will confirm this, every time.



Wed, 09/19/2012 - 16:57 | 2812840 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

First, you haven't shared dick...  only that through some magical combination of respect for drugs and shamanship/worship/ritual that some secret door opens and you get the real facts.  This is completely and totally vague and, therefore, bullshit.  Please present a falsifiable hypothesis or some other fruitful or practical information...

Second, if you want to know which reality you're in or, alternatively, which reality controls all others, then I encourage you to try a little experiment...  go into the closet, find your best pair of running shoes, old gym socks (the ones without dried cum in them), shorts, and wife beater...  take a really good and long stretch...  get that hammy good...  then go out to the street...  begin running into oncoming traffic.  Keep running down the middle of the oncoming lane until you meet traffic, preferably by trying to leap through the windshield of the fastest moving vehicle.

You're scratching around in the litter box of philosophy...  "like what if life is just a dream man"...  throw out that survey of philosophy book and go experiment with traffic.  Welcome to the real world.   

Wed, 09/19/2012 - 18:11 | 2813097 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

lol, I'm guessing we're done here, since you've down-voted my last post, and up-voted your own. . .

my apologies for confusing the "what I've shared here" accusation in your prior posts with your having read what I've actually shared here many times, ie my "beliefs" and how they came to be - that's my mistake, as it also assumed you were familiar with my posts over the years. . .

and, ha! you're obviously not,

go into the closet, find your best pair of running shoes, old gym socks (the ones without dried cum in them), shorts, and wife beater...

as you'd have fashioned an insult more appropriate to my. . . sex (not gender, that's for you MachoMan).

you've defined your box, and I acknowledge your definition of your box.

take care now.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 10:08 | 2814793 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I deny that I upvoted myself or down voted you.  I don't participate in voting on this site...

The bigger question is why would you care what others thought about your posts?  Isn't the weeping tree comfort enough?  Seems that you would be used to being the sole bastion of the world's consciousness at this point...  being lonely wouldn't even register.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:27 | 2804563 gwar5
gwar5's picture

You are very correct. Majority of the vast amount of information processed by our brains never even reaches our conscious level, for very good reason. The brain is capable of handling complex tasks unconsciously without alerting the conscious mind. 


In fact our unconscious brains are much better at complex decision making and information processing. It includes subliminal data such as chemical pheromones signals used in mate selection, and for exciting our fight or flight response cues before we register it consciously. Never leave home without your subconscious.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:31 | 2804584 Michael
Michael's picture

Made in the image and likeness of the Creator.

Conscious and Sub-Conscious together as one.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 16:54 | 2804943 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I'm pretty sure our creator looks like he hasn't shaved all week, has a beer gut, bald spot, and a penchant for inciting the japanese to create weird porn...  he's also painfully delinquent on his child support.

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 01:00 | 2806115 Michael
Michael's picture


Tue, 09/18/2012 - 06:46 | 2806301 putaipan
putaipan's picture

the oysties were delicious! but what were those round hard things? .....

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 09:36 | 2806683 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture


Tue, 09/18/2012 - 09:35 | 2806684 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture


Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:10 | 2804483 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Luv ya chumba but religious texts overlap perfectly with 20th century physics and beyond. Big Bang, singularities, extra-dimensional existence, quantum entanglement, and the space-time illusion are all there, and much, much more. I don't believe in 4000 year old luck about such things that can barely be grasped by a spoonfed 21st century physics geek paying $40K/yr tuition.


And the mathematics are now in, and they are very unkind to the food-for-worms theory, at just 1 chance in 10^500th. This is per Leonard Susskind, who also bested Hawkings in a famous bet. The number is so big it is just a polite way of saying atheology is mysticism. Susskind also says our reality is not even the 'real' reality, but is the reflection of a coexistence coming from a singularity, probably the edge of our universe -- Holographic Theory.

Whatever the case, it is clear that this is not all there is. I agree our man-made constructs are all flawed, including our organized religions, but that only underscores we are indeed very human and pathetic.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 16:53 | 2804940 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Geocentric universe?  Plagues from the heavens?  Period of time to create the earth?  Order of the process to create the earth?  Flat earth?  Great flood?  Parting the sea?  Self pregnancy?  Time man has existed on earth?  Value of Pi?  If you want to cherry pick religious texts, sure...  but the problem is that either you have a theory/platform or you don't...  there is no cherry picking...  if you have to retreat and retrench to eliminate a paradox or inconsistency, then you've created a different theory.

Further, all the scientific method does is test EXISTING THEORIES.  You cannot use the odds for life to form if a particular theory is true (with all of its existing parameters) as justification for the statement that there must be a creator...  Needless to say, there's a whole lot in between (including our present ignorance).  Essentially, this is a false dilemma.  [the scientific method cannot ever prove anything, it can only disprove...]

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 17:20 | 2805036 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Jesus Fucking Christ, why do you guys have to complicate this?


Tue, 09/18/2012 - 06:49 | 2806304 putaipan
putaipan's picture

and while i'm all with ya on the admiralty law shit......this has got what to do with libya?

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 18:27 | 2805267 Michael
Michael's picture

We already have a collective hive mind.

You know it's there, but you can't touch it with your hand.

You can get in contact with it, especially through your keyboard, but you can't grasp the whole of it's collective conciseness..

The Universal Collective Hive Mind knows nearly everything knowable.

It's really there.

It's like the conciseness above it, almost but not quite.

It's called the Internet.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:09 | 2803939 sickofthepunx
sickofthepunx's picture

so this bagley douche says it's revenge for the assisination of al quada operative al-libi and then 2 seconds later says it's a "cut and dry" example of blowback for the libya intervention.

another neo-con douche talking out of both sides of his asshole


Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:55 | 2804132 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

It absolutely is blowback. The US employed the same people they were shooting at in Afghanistan and Iraq to do their dirtywork for them and topple gaddafi. Had they not done so, Libya would STILL be a peaceful country with which we in the west had been doing business for years, and these AL-CIA-DUH fucks would be in some other cave. They should have killed them all - not put them on the payroll.


This dead ambassador rode in on a cargo plane full of terrorists to free libya and this is where it has gotten the world.


More obscene foreign policy. Shelter Saudi Arabia, the birthplace and eternal flame of militant islam where the majority of these assholes get their particular ideology - meanwhile IRan needs to get bootfucked.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:09 | 2803940 Michael
Michael's picture

The Mormon Mafia screwed up.


All we have to do is eliminate those thousand individual points of light George Bush Sr spoke of.


I just dont think anybody gets what I am talking about with that bold statement.

Note the date of this GWB SR speech.

George Bush Sr. New World Order Live Speech Sept 11 1991

Bush Sr. New World Order Speech Rare


Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:49 | 2804111 Michael
Michael's picture

We have the evidence against the Romney crew.

It will be used to force him to drop out of the Presidential race.

Who was the only other RNC nominee?

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:15 | 2804208 El Tuco
El Tuco's picture

There was a prediction a while ago from some source that it had already been decided who would lead the Republicans into the next election and if I remeber correctly it would be Jeb Bush?

I just don't have the time to dig up the link here at ZH but It was a very interesting take on the whole Republican convention etc. See what happens.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:18 | 2804215 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

9/11 One of those dates with something for everybody (Muslims, Magic Underware Mormans, Joos, the Elijah Muhammed Space Cadets, the cult of Mel Gibson,  and the Satanic Society of Federalist Central Bankers)-

1297 – Battle of Stirling Bridge: Scots jointly-led by William Wallace and Andrew Moray defeat the English.
1526 – The Ottoman army occupies Buda after the crushing Hungarian defeat in the Battle of Mohács.
1565 – Ottoman forces retreat from Malta, End of the Great Siege of Malta.
1609 – Expulsion order announced against the Moriscos of Valencia; beginning of the expulsion of all Spain's Moriscos.
1609 – Henry Hudson discovers Manhattan Island and the indigenous people living there.
1683 – Battle of Vienna.
1697 – Battle of Zenta.
1786 – The Beginning of the Annapolis Convention.
1789 – Alexander Hamilton is appointed the first United States Secretary of the Treasury.
1813 – War of 1812: British troops arrive in Mount Vernon and prepare to march to and invade Washington D.C..
1857 – The Mountain Meadows Massacre: Mormon settlers and Paiutes massacre 120 pioneers at Mountain Meadows, Utah.
1919 – U.S. Marines invade Honduras.
1921 – Nahalal, the first moshav in Palestine, is settled as part of a Zionist plan to colonize Palestine and creating a Jewish state, later to be Israel.
1922 – The Treaty of Kars is ratified in Yerevan, Armenia.
1941 – Ground is broken for the construction of The Pentagon.
1941 – Charles Lindbergh's Des Moines Speech accusing the British, Jews and the Roosevelt administration of pressing for war with Germany.
1943 – World War II: Start of the liquidation of the Ghettos in Minsk and Lida by the Nazis.
1965 – Indo-Pakistani War: The Indian Army captures the town of Burki, just southeast of Lahore.
1970 – The Dawson's Field hijackers release 88 of their hostages. The remaining hostages, mostly Jews and Israeli citizens, are held until September 25.
1971 – The Egyptian Constitution becomes official.
1973 – A coup in Chile headed by General Augusto Pinochet topples the democratically elected president Salvador Allende. Pinochet exercises dictatorial power until ousted in a referendum in 1988, staying in power until 1990.
1978 – U.S. President Jimmy Carter, President Anwar Sadat of Egypt, and Prime Minister Menachem Begin of Israel meet at Camp David and agree on the Camp David Accords a framework for peace between Israel and Egypt and a comprehensive peace in the Middle East.
1982 – The international forces that were guaranteeing the safety of Palestinian refugees following Israel's 1982 Invasion of Lebanon leave Beirut. Five days later, several thousand refugees are massacred in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps.
1997 – NASA's Mars Global Surveyor reaches Mars.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:33 | 2804293 knukles
knukles's picture

Just for serious edification, note that in 1683 a little not very well known event is listed "The Battle of Vienna"

It was when an army organized under the Papacy relieved the City of Vienna which was under siege and about to fall to Muslim Hoards.

Has anybody wondered why 9/11 holds such significance?


No, it's not coincidence.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:54 | 2804398 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

None of the conspiracy theorists believe AlCIAda's own words...

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 16:55 | 2804781 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Louis XIV benefitted from this Ottoman incursion to annex the Palatinat in bloody fashion, as he had reverted to bigoted Catholicism and hated the protestants; a regression that cost France heavily two years later in 1685 when he revoked the Edit of Nantes and expelled the Huguenots to England, New world and South Africa. France-Ottoman alliance continued.

Legend has it that the Viennese invented the croissant during that siege and the baggel. Vienna also opened its first coffee shop after the Ottoman failure, as they found bags of coffee amongst the prisoners. The muslim army included christian kingdoms, allies from Romania, Moldavia, Transylvania. Empires are never ethnically pure. They are political coalitions as the French alliance showed.

Hordes of politically linked nations...Louis XIV killed more germans in his annexation than the Ottomans killed or lost in Vienna Battle. It started a two and a half century hatred between France and Germany.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 18:42 | 2805302 Michael
Michael's picture
Date 11–12 September 1683 Location Vienna, Holy Roman Empire, today Austria Result Decisive Holy League victory
Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:32 | 2804040 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

"Forget about the oil for now."



Yeah, sure, that's what people are going to do.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 17:45 | 2805144 KK Tipton
KK Tipton's picture

Very good stuff Chumba.

From some other article by that guy and his friend:

"Then confirmed by the 1783 Paris Treaty, wherein the minerals did not change hands, they stayed with the king, his heirs and successors. In other words, the king, his heirs and his successors forever, were to continue to receive as a matter of Trust, the gain, profit from his corporate venture. To cement this since his subjects had gone brain dead, and now believed themselves free from their obligations. Believing when the States became States of, after the 1787 Constitution was ratified, they became free and sovereign. In March 1791 thanks to George Washington, the States of, became District States of the Crown, side stepping the 1787 Constitution and the States short lived independence declared in 1776, in favor of the king's public policy, his taxes and licenses to be administered by his United States Corporation and its elected fiduciaries and den of thieves. When governing for the king, the President and Congress were no longer bound by the 1787 Constitution. The king wouldnow receive as declared in his early Charters for himself, his heirs and successors, the 30 percent tax for his family business venture. Because now his bank could operate within the several District States, incorporated in the District of Columbia, this was not possible until Washington made the District States; never to be repealed. Also, go back and read the quotes I gave by Burke and Smith, there is no doubt. "

"Not to get ahead of myself, we first declared our Independence, sounded good, but why would you place your neck back under the yoke, the law that subjected you? Simple, as history proves, many of our fore fathers, including Washington did not want to be separated from the king. Some stood to lose lands and title, others understood they were subjects of the king and liked it. History shows they were not at odds with being subjects of the king, just his policies, regarding taxes and their government being so far removed; commerce and legal convenience demanded representation here, but still controlled by the king. "


Gaddafi was probably removed because he (and his people) actually OWNED his country.
The "Crown" located in the City Of London (NOT the king and queen BTW) does not want this situation.
THEY want to own and control everything.

Unless he was already on the payroll and deviated from the movie script.
Legal docs in Libya would prove or disprove this.

Our US legal docs prove that the US is still owned by the "Crown".

Pick up a rifle in the armed forces and you are working directly for them. Perfect.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 23:21 | 2805977 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


it's all accelerating. . .

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 06:53 | 2806307 putaipan
putaipan's picture

and william of orange....sumthin' sumthin'....the vatican.

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 09:26 | 2806655 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

KK, dig into the history of Trinity Church on the foot of Wall Street.  still to this day, one of the largest landowners in NYC, "blessed" with lands bequeathed to it by Queen Anne in the early 1700's.   if you add in the holdings of their vassal, Columbia University, probably THE largest.   of course, this was Washington's and Hamilton's church (Hamilton's actually buried there) and was spared its existence (and its lands) after the Americans "won" the war.

then there are the Pilgrims:


Mon, 09/17/2012 - 20:54 | 2805697 rotagen
rotagen's picture

As soon as anyone starts talking about "Al Qaeda" with a serious face, or indeed even writes it that way instead of writing "Al CIA-da"  I gotta stop reading.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:06 | 2803931 q99x2
q99x2's picture

They are going to try a Libya-style intervention in the US in October.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:57 | 2804408 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Are the "rebels" going to immediately set up a new central bank?

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:06 | 2803932 Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

Ah yes... the Obama foreign policy wizards at work!

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:37 | 2804055 Taterboy
Taterboy's picture

All that Libya needs is a great big dose of "Hopey/Changey". Fix it right up.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 19:38 | 2805467 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

I'm no I'llbombya fan, and neither is Alex Jones, but some are pointing fingers at the more usual culprits, the neocons:

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:07 | 2803934 Hype Alert
Hype Alert's picture

Well yes, but what about their central bank?

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:12 | 2803951 Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

They're still trying to figure out where their gold went...

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:18 | 2803972 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I think we all know-CIA gotta get their cut

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 16:30 | 2804842 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Got forwarded to Hugo when he demanded Venezuela's back from London...... though if he's smart he had it remelted to make sure they didn't core the bars with tungsten before forwarding them.

Hell, Oil (and Gold) areall that Libya was about... they grabbed the gold and as long as the oil is still flowing, nobody cares about the rest of the country.....

Libya never got their new Islamic gold dinar off the ground, the bullion backing it disappeared into western hands and euro oil companies are happily pumping away in Libya..... everyone's happy - execpt the Libyans, especially those that thought they were getting 'freedom'.......

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:13 | 2803946 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

<<< Forget about industrialization

<<< Forget about the oil

Kind of like Obama vs. Romney!

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:13 | 2803948 sangell
sangell's picture

Yeah perhaps but the intervention in Libya was more of Franco-British desire to be rid of Khadafy than a US requirement. Afterall Obama and Khadafy were buddies, almost of the "If I had an American son he would look like Barack" variety . It was Sarkozy who had a real problem with Moammar and the British had the Lockerbie bomber embarrasment as well as that dead London policewoman as reasons to want Khadafy gone.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:17 | 2803964 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

those Eurotrash bitches should start doing this shit on their own-I mean why do ANY of them(yeah-you too krauts) spend one dime on their armies? just make weapons systems and sell them to Israel and the Israelis can use our Benny Shalom "foreign aid" bucks" to buy the stuff

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:46 | 2804074 falak pema
falak pema's picture

this is too funny; sixty five years of PAx Americana, since Suez Canal days when the dirty "colonial" Brits and French were told to go packing by the straight shooting US, have installed total hegemony of US foreign plicy and MIC on the OIL region; as they had found Ghawar around that time, to complement Iran, Irak and Kuwait. 

So the Hegemon US; aka Dulles Bros., dictated "you guys get the bejeases out from here, its now OUR playground. And we all know HOW TRUE that is since Dear Henry petrodollar inception days; as it has only gotten MORE exclusive since Bush NWO.

So its amusing to hear on this thread such comments that go against the historic trend .

Q-daffy take out was decided in DC, nowhere else, with the active complicity of PAx Americana sympathetic relays in Europe like Cameron and Sarko. 

The OIL patch is, was, will stay, 100% Pax Americana strategic play until it goes boom!

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:22 | 2804246 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

as usual, yur terminal myopia appears when the subject of who really runs things gets too klose for yur komfort...

while an educated fella like yurself might make hisself believe that all roads still run to DC, folks wiser to the way of the world know that all avenues approach tel aviv...the spiders lair from which PAX sionista manoeuvers the various puppet princes who occupy the stage in order to keep the audience amused, whilst the heist goes on in the parking lot...

yur thesis has gone boom! fact, it has blowed up real good~!

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:32 | 2804494 falak pema
falak pema's picture

we agree to disagree, the proof of the pudding from my perspective is in the time line of : the MIC game, the oil game and the monetary game; all entirely organised by DC since the cold war began. It condemns the PAx Americana construct to being an integrated hegemonial game they played all to their own benefit. For sixty five years they were the sole decision makers, lead players,  on ALL THREE FRONTS. 

As you like using references to children's videos to make your point let me just remind you of one salient point that defines the initial singular, iconic expression of Pax Americana morph. On Dec 7 1941 an American president declared it a day in infamy, cos Japan had Pearl Harboured USA in a pre-emptive strike without warning. They had broken the time honoured code of upping the ante, military wise. 

Truman did the same thing to the Japs at Hiroshima, making the USA the first and only nation to preempt the world into the nuclear bomb age.

Wyatt Earp had gone for its gun before the other guy, without forewarning or demonstration of proof of concept!

And the US hegemony did this, from then on, on a recurrent basis : Iran, VIetnam, the list is too long, all in peripheral third world countries, not at the heart of Cold war enemy empire. Just watch that film "the fog of war" with the McNamara interview; too eloquent for words on the ethical front! Says it all about PAx Americana construct and mind set.

So Joy, before you go coy about OTHERS being the mischief makers of US policy derailment; just look under the carpet and own up like a man. Denial is the most delusional of human betrayals of honour, ethics and the universal golden rule. 

Saladin showed it then what honour meant, and every age has produced its Hectors, men who kept their word, and didn't dodge the bullet blaming others as convenient bogey men or ethnic fall groups. Shape up. Civilization nevers hides its warts; the fault dear Brutus lies not in our stars...and we must assume our subsequent acts! 

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 16:05 | 2804729 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Unlike yurself, I have no dog in this race...and therefore am free to graze wherever the green grass of truth be most lush...

Me no Merikan...I don't need to or seek to defend Merika nor Merikans from the weight of krimes kommitted by them, or in their name...but likewise, I don't care to see them assigned blame where none need exist...yur defense of continentals, and continental values, is knee jerk, and not of knightly virtue...

as for karpets, I be no bazaar peddler, I keep mine clean of the dirt of disdain for the obvious victims of the khazarian koup d'etat which yu so klearly wish to keep swept under the rug!

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 16:53 | 2804841 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Lol, I ain't a sionist lover; that is apartheid. So nothing under my carpet. But there are so many people linked to the PAx Americana agenda; admittedly none have such an impressive back up political lobby in USA and Europe as the Israelis.

But there again, the Roths were talented people, relentless money oligarchs over centuries, even if they have an ethnic agenda that costs the world dearly, since Balfour days. Powr corrupts.

They aren't the only ones in the oil patch : the Sauds, the Ayatollahs, you name it, the place is just crawling with regressionary groups full of hate, unfortunately fed on PAx Americana hubris and destrucitve turmoil.

Read the history of the Crusades; full of all sorts of splinter groups of all religious bends. Repetition once again. Now for king oil.


Mon, 09/17/2012 - 22:26 | 2805892 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture


lets talk Krusades then squire:

the un[der]told story of them Krusades is that Venetian moneychangers(the timeless moneypowerz of the present moment historical antecedents) bribed, bullied\ and\or bluffed Christian European princes into sending their men into Constantinople, jewel of Christendom(and thorn in the side of jewry)to attack other Christian princes and terminally weaken the foundation of that bastion of eastern power competing for dominance of the trade with the east, and in doing so, set up the entire rationale for and ability of muslim turks to move in and finish the job of destroying the last vestiges of Christian culture(cepting Armenia and pockets of Syriacs\Copts) anywhere near to the original home of that tortured and persercuted experiment in religious faith...

fast forward to in now...similar group of kooks at the kontrols of breakin down the fabric of civilization, in accord with their millienialist money kult goal of pitting everybody against each other to rule over the remnants.

U were saying?

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 11:27 | 2807084 falak pema
falak pema's picture

the Jewry was inexistant then as power structure, servile class in Europe, even though they were astute money changers and physicians.

The Constantinople Crusade was a joint venture, between Crusaders and Venice. Both had equal responsibility. The rape of Constantinople paid back from Venetian perspective the previous massacre of LAtins in 1282 when Alexios/Andronikos Comnenos took power from Empress MAry of Antioch, after demise of husband Manuel Comnenos. After 1204 Constantinople became latin kingdom, with satrapies over the whole Aegean Sea.

THe Crusaders and the LAtin church were in open dissension and rivalry with the Comnenos Empire since the first Crusade. In fact when the Albigenisan Crusade began in 1209, Arnault Amaury Papal Legate wrote to Pope Innocent III after Crusader victory in Spain; where he had temporarily gone to participate in Las Navas de Tolosa decisive battle in 1212 over Almohad Moors, leaving behind his Cathar Crusade.

He wrote to Pope, "here we have won a great victory over the Infidel, like we are winning over the Herectic Cathar, like we won over THE APOSTATE SCHISMATIC ORTHODOX (reference to 1204!). That says it all about the Latin Church's hatred for the Orthodox order and their desire to rule in the christian jewel of Hagia Sophia! They wanted it all, Innocent III was Ayatollah Khomeiny of that age, pardon the reverse analogy; total theocrat for Latin church.

This Legate is the man who immortalised "kill em all, may God choose his own" when his Crusader horde killed all of Bezier's population in 1209, old and women alike, like the frst Crusade did in Jerusalem.

Sorry Sir, but History teaches us that the Crusader was the true architect of LAtin greed in Constaninople as in Holy land and the Merchant Republics were there to give helping hand and get immensely wealthy at the side of these representatives of Kings and Popes,; the real Oligarchs of that age. Templar Christian intransigeant time line repeats under the Bushes! 

Read my book Sidi KAfir. Its historically factual.

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 12:15 | 2807325 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

the Jewry was inexistant then as power structure, servile class in Europe, even though they were astute money changers and physicians....


apparently yu have no idea who "the Venetians" were...that degree of applied ignorance can only be acquired by choice, it simply cannot be native to one such as yurself....

entire duchies, nay, kingdoms, occupying areas of Europe not unadajacent to where yu keep yur abundantly stocked wine cellar were began by, kontrolled by -and bekame the fulkrum of the expansion of - kabbalist kookery...

yu keep telling me to 'read books', yet yu have put the entire koncept of acquiring knowledge thru ocular faculties under great suspicion via this display of determined indifference to historical truth!

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 13:54 | 2807729 falak pema
falak pema's picture

No siree, Venice was not run by the jews; not then nor during the times of the Merchant of Venice. Never; I defy you to prove that based on historical example. They had a network of jewish erudits under Frederick II of Sicily who taught the sciences and ran his relay stations of carrier pigeons. But Frederick had his own harem and praetoriain guard of muslim soldiers of Sicilian origin. 

The jews and Moors were tolerated but second rank minorities, subjected to periodic pogroms in certain catholic Guelf cities. They also had a Cathar community at Cremone. But Frederick then sacrificed them to obtain some "catholic" respectability with the Guelfs.

Sorry don't buy your thesis of JEw conspiracy in thirteenth century Italy or France. The kabbalists had minor influence on the political course of events in kingdoms and republican city states. 

Kabbalah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 23:48 | 2809752 i-dog
i-dog's picture


"don't buy your thesis of JEw conspiracy"

LOL ... you keep trying to turn every depiction of the Khazarian Kabbalists into "the joos". The Khazarians were neither true Jews nor Semites. Even before the rise of the Romans, they manifested as the Pharisees in Judea and were just one sect within Judaism (just as the Zionist Mormons are only one sect within modern Christianity).

The Hittites (in Turkey) were another manifestation. The Phoenicians (in Lebanon/Syria) were another. The Macedonians (in Greece) were another. The Carthaginians (in Tunisia) and Berbers (in Libya) were another. The Basques (in Spain) were/are another. The Julii (and possibly also the Etruscans) were another...

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 03:59 | 2806225 supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

And we all know HOW TRUE that is since Dear Henry petrodollar inception days;

Dear Henry or better Heinz Alfred Kissinger just enjoyed a trip to his hometown Fuerth in Bavaria (close to Nuremburg).

He is a fan of the traditional Fuerther soccer club. Look at the picture.






Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:47 | 2804101 Blue Vervain
Blue Vervain's picture

Yeah perhaps but the intervention in Libya was more of Franco-British desire to be rid of Khadafy than a US requirement. Afterall Obama and Khadafy were buddies, almost of the "If I had an American son he would look like Barack" variety . It was Sarkozy who had a real problem with Moammar and the British had the Lockerbie bomber embarrasment as well as that dead London policewoman as reasons to want Khadafy gone.


Got to disagree with you there. The good colonel was removed for challenging the petrodollar with his gold-backed dinar scheme. Just as Saddam before him (petrol for euros), and possilby Ahmadinejad after him (petrol for rupees, yen, gold ... and even barter, God bless him). All depends on whether the US will balk from the threat of China and Russia.

I'm not sure Obama has much of a say in taking his country to war - I suspect he does as he's told.


Mon, 09/17/2012 - 19:40 | 2805471 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Only prob w/that is that pesky question about who was really responsible for downing that civilian airliner.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 22:56 | 2805939 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

God Save the Queen

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 22:55 | 2805928 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

that explanation gives a little too much weight to the decision making ability of our "leaders" and not  enough to their handlers, don't ya think?

how bout this as a silly shot from left field?  moQ started demanding the shiny barborous relic from the blood sucker corps (BP, XXon, et al and their secret multinational proxies) in return for the dark liquid spice, much like the deal the Saudis had before the invention of the Petrodollar by TrickyDick and his handler Henry KissMyCircumcision 

Sarkozy cozy of course with his papa-in-law Frank Wisner, shadow spook extraordinare. and BigO, well you know, take your pick of where his strings are attached.   and for that...MoQ had to go (see Billary for the dirty deed).

did i win?   or was it Col. Mustard in the Library with a Candlestick?

btw, ever wonder where that 143 tons of the yellow brick road went?

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:14 | 2803953 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

thank the French for wanting MoMar out and then leave us holding the bag

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:25 | 2804000 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

That's why we need to stay the fuck out of the business of other countries UNLESS it directly threatens our national security.  Israelies are big boys and girls and don't need the US to do anything for them except to show support for their need to protect themselves.   And, while we're at it, get our troops OUT of Afghanistan.  I'm sick and tired of them getting "sensitivity training" every time some Afghany decides to shoot them just because they're there.  How unbelieveably cruel and insulting for our troops to have to deal with that shit from their supposed leaders.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 19:41 | 2805474 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Apparently Izrahole does need us to fight another war for them and is trying to drag us into one as we speak.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:15 | 2803955 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Al-Libi was captured in the “war on terrorism” in Afghanistan in 2002 and held for three years in Kabul’s high-security Bagram prison. Against all odds, he escaped in 2005.

In 2011 he resurfaced again, but this time as a friend to Washington who had...


omg what a bunch of bullshit.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:31 | 2804031 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

A cesspool of corruption, lies and sociopathy.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:22 | 2803994 caimen garou
caimen garou's picture

Forget about the oil? if it was'nt about the oil it would be about the libya blond hash! it will always be something to fight about no matter what it is,the world has to keep the war drama story going until there is nothing left but ashes.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:04 | 2804445 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

You can't run your car on blond hash.


Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:35 | 2804051 Collapsed
Collapsed's picture

Question: Does anyone know what the actual building was where Mr. Stevens was attacked?  The news articles keep referring to it as the "US Consulate in Benghazi", but there is NO US Consulate in Benghazi.  Just curious...

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 16:13 | 2804767 helping_friendl...
helping_friendly_book's picture

The building was a temporary HQ for the consulate. The consulate, formally in Tripoli, was distryed during the Islamic Revolution.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:45 | 2804092 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Some reason, everybodies' beating round the bush on this one...

in the ultimate act of imperial hubris, Merika's 1st "Bathhouse President" sent one of his own into enemy territory...

and gave him up to become the karmic sacrifice made to atone for the way that they took G-Daff out...forget about movies, or this dumb piece published above...the sionist entity has sent a message to the kenyan that can't be misread...we own yur security services and we own yur more Dempseys and no more back talk, or we unleash the beast.

This is worse than bad...not just because the whole story is being kovered up by the korrupt kosher media in the west, and splayed all over the media in the east...(except for the most vitriolic of the anti-muzzie sites)but because the manner of his death has the markings of the whole sado-maschocistic underpinnings of the kabbalist kampaign against the peeple of Euro-merika...

the imagery is huge...for all those who wish ill upon the west...after Abu Ghirab, the Blackwater orgies in Kabul, the pissing on dead bodies, the serial attacks upon all human decency that underpin kabbalistic sionism in it's pornographic desecration of the human spirit...

the opening act in setting up the Europoid peeples forthe same pain and humiliation that has been acted out against others in their name, by the usurpers who live amongst yu. The most overworked kliche of the decade is just about to come into it's own...shit is gettin real.

Wake up Merikans...the atrocities kommitted in yur name are done by design to bring yu to ruin...clean house now or it's going to be too late!

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:35 | 2804165 Michael
Michael's picture

I adopt the phrase "Never Again", to use against them now.

Never Again will I let them fuck up my life and ruin my country.

Never Again will I let them wage war on my "White" family and my carrier.

I take away their right to use the word "WHITE", because it is a derogatory racist word they use to marginalize White people.

Never Again will I let them use that vile, disgusting, brainwashing deception happy horse shit on me.

And I take away the word "BLACK" from them too, substituted for the word "WHITE" in the sentences above, for the same reasons.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:21 | 2804245 El Tuco
El Tuco's picture


Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:45 | 2804296 Blue Vervain
Blue Vervain's picture

the manner of his death has the markings of the whole sado-maschocistic underpinnings of the kabbalist kampaign against the peeple of Euro-merika...

Spot on.

Since Ambassador Stevens was left in the damaged building while the rest of the staff and security retreated, he effectively fell into enemy hands. Its hard to believe the media narrative that a group of well-meaning locals entered the compound to rescue him while the attack took place. The reality is that the footage of Stevens body being carried out is actually of the assailants claiming their prize. Why would his treatment be any better than Khadaffi's?

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 16:09 | 2804751 helping_friendl...
helping_friendly_book's picture

I disagree.


The photo shows smoke inhalation. The people taking his body don't appear to be hostiles. They probably don't appreciate Americans but, as you can see:

1: The ambassador doesn't have any sign of being beaten.

2: Their is no blood on his Tee shirt.

3: Pretty good looking corpse if you ask me.

These people appear to be carrying his body to the authorities, not taking him to be dragged through the streets.

The attack was pay back for killing #2 by drone strike.

The film was just a distraction, by Mossad, to confuse you as to the reason. They don't want you to know Al-Queda is active and powerful in this region. (see photo of Al-queda flag flying over USA embassy in Cairo.




Mon, 09/17/2012 - 16:29 | 2804840 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

While yur clearly welcome to disagree, yu equally clearly did not bother to look at the link provided...

the story and the fotos provided there are compelling evidence which runs contrary to yur supposition.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 21:43 | 2805819 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

I think you need to take a loser look at his cheekbones, he looked like chavez jr after saturdays fight. I would like to Congratulate Maravilla for the entertainment and the balls for winning the fight despite breaking his hand in the fourth... how about that for a zh post.?

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 19:42 | 2805481 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Joyful, that's almost word for word what's being said by a CIA Jew here:

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 07:03 | 2806316 putaipan
putaipan's picture

i was just about to go hunting for that to give the linky.....thnx for saving the time. but remember- he is carter's cia jew!

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:14 | 2804187 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

America's alliance with the Muslim extremists is well known from all the way to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Now-a-days, the American Neo-Con movement has allied itself with elements of the Middle East's Islamic extremist movement as an agent in their war against Russia and China over 21st century global power.

Libya was liberated and set up to be a base camp and training ground for CIA backed Islamic extemists who could be funneled into nations needing a dose of US power projection. Syria is a fine example, with Libya acting as base for Islamists that are trained up and then ferried into Syria by western means to fight the secular government of Syria. What happened recently was blow back by our allies who just lose control sometimes and attack anyone or anything that offends Islam. The USA still supports most Islamic extremists in Libya.

In the long run, these extremists allied to the USA are meant to take over Syria, but more importantly, they are targeted against Central Asia, Russia and Western China. It is in destabilizing those areas that our allied muslim extemist elements are meant to really serve the US cause. Mr. Putin in Russia is quite clear about his understanding that Muslim terror attacks inside Russia are aided by the US CIA and the groups growing in strength get most of their support via CIA back channels in the Muslim world. Think Saudi Arabia!

To cut to the chase, America's Neo-Cons see Muslim extremism as a valuable tool in the cold war against Russia and CHina and in the war to secure Central Asian Oil.

In this dangerous game we play with the extreme elements of Islam, we mus expect some blow back, but as long as Syria falls, Iran is weakened and Russia exeriences growing terror attacks, then it is well worth the odd American getting caught up in a few out of control CIA Muslim assets. Remember, 9/11 was a Saudi operation, and after it took place, the US government saw to it that Saudi were quickly and safely flown out of the USA, even some wanted for questioning and on terror watch lists. This ought to give you a hint that much of the world terror network is allied with the US secret services and the Neo-Con movement to press for destabilization of Russian and CHinese territory.


Tue, 09/18/2012 - 01:18 | 2806128 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

In general, I agree with much you say here.  However, the issue is not only one of undermining Chinese and Russian interests in central Asia.  That is merely one consideration-- and not a pressing, immediate concern.  The issue revolves around control of the Straits of Hormuz from the U.S. perspective.  As long as Iran lies in the Chinese camp, China can, by proxy, shut off the flow of oil to the West from the Middle East in any trade war, or any shooting war. But this is not some new, or recent change in the geostrategic landscape that requires some instant response.  This has been the case for some time now.

The issue mostly involves the heavy influence of zionist money in U.S. elections and the amazing ability of the Israeli tail to wag the American dog.  Israel wants to shut off arms to Hezbollah, which means capping the Syrian and Iranian governments.  Bibi's crazy talk comes from desperation.  A continued build-up of arms and Hezbollah guerillas means that Israel's ability to project force to their North is effectively nil.  The large number of Israeli troops that Hezbollah could tie up, also makes projection of force to the South and the East very difficult for Israel.  Nettyahoo is trying to spark an Iranian-American conflict by any means necessary.  The real danger here is that the Americans will write Hitleryahoo a "blank check" as the Germans did for the Austrians, which allowed the Austrians to provoke war with Russia (after which the Triple Entente and the Triple Alliance treaties activated and WWI ensued).  Even without an explicit "blank check" Hitleryahoo may forge ahead with the assumption that he has one, since the U.S. has implicitly written Israel a "blank check" for years.

After all, the Straits are open, the Russians are net oil exporters (and not natural allies of the Persians or Arabs at all-- or natural allies of the Chinese for that matter), and the Chinese buy oil on the open market, same as the U.S.  There is no need or reason for the U.S. to go to war now, which makes Hitleryahoo all the more desperate, and all the more likely to do something dramatic to spark war.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:26 | 2804268 Heyoka Bianco
Heyoka Bianco's picture

Libya? Once again, apparently history started in 2001. This lesson should have been learned in motherfucking Afghanistan I, in nineteenfuckingseventyfuckingnine, with the likes of Gulbuddin Hekmaytar and his merry band of acid tossers. The enemy of my enemy is your friend until your enemy is no more, then it's everybody out of the water. Again.

By the way something, those asshats the US helped keep in power all those years weren't exactly opponents to the fundamentalists/terrorists. In fact, they liked to fan those flames occasionally, to re-direct anger from their total corruption and venality to the meddling machinations of the Great Satan (Ha! We're No.1! In Satanity!). Now they only have the US to hate, because they're living in completely choatic leaderless shitholes (I refuse to apply the term "anarchy" to mere disorder).

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:52 | 2804386 MrMorden
MrMorden's picture

But the oil is ours...we backstabbed for it fair and square!


Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:57 | 2804405 Floodmaster
Floodmaster's picture

Another petrol for paper country in the making.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:43 | 2804639 NoField5
NoField5's picture

That Al-Libi guy must have taken an American Airlines flight between Afghinistan and Libya and back.  Round trip 1st class tickets to be sure.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:43 | 2804640 NoField5
NoField5's picture

That Al-Libi guy must have taken an American Airlines flight between Afghinistan and Libya and back.  Round trip 1st class tickets to be sure.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:51 | 2804670 Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Perhaps this coming conflict will finally get this "monkey off our backs"?

If the nation of gods chosen people choose to take on Iran, let them.  But stand down America.  Let these fucking zionist shithawks fight the good fight.

We can all stand back and watch how fucking courageous these chickenhawks are.  With the hardware Russia has provided to our Iranian friends, it should be quite a fair fight.

Zionist cunts

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 16:26 | 2804824 alt.hedge
alt.hedge's picture


Mon, 09/17/2012 - 20:50 | 2805688 MoneyShaman
MoneyShaman's picture

Interesting...interesting... Yeah who believes the current administration these days?

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