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Guest Post: Lost Principles And Social Destruction

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Brandon Smith from Alt-Market

Lost Principles And Social Destruction

“...we are here dealing with a totalitarian state of which the philosophy included an utter contempt for the individual... any freedom of thought or action was inconceivable in the Aztec world... dependence and instability were absolute, fear reigned. Death lurked ceaselessly everywhere, and constituted the cement of the building in which the individual Aztec was prisoner... Clearly the spirituality of some aspects of Aztec life must have sprung from an old pre-Aztec tradition, later betrayed...”

Laurette Sejourne (‘Burning Water’)

The life of a nation, of a culture, is sustained by very few but very critical social circumstances.  These pillars must stand strong, maintained with the utmost care and caution; as one would fight to maintain the beat of his own heart.  If these vital foundations are dissolved or destroyed, the nation and the people contained within are subject to the most heinous of generational afflictions.  The citizenry and all that nurtures their progress, begins to die.  Slowly suffocating in a corrosive atmosphere of dishonor, men turn toward pure self interest at the expense of their greater selves, giving rise to hatred, desperation, and an environment of disturbed malleability that is easily exploited by those who seek power.

Eventually, the entire edifice comes crashing down, sometimes so far into the pits of black and terrible times that it is all but lost, even to memory…

As I look out past the near horizon of this time, and this nation, I see considerable potential for a revitalization of that which is best in humanity.  I see a population that strives for independence.  I see a return to the entrepreneurial spirit of discovery.  I see unhindered freedom of thought and action feeding a fire of creativity that inspires us to unimaginable heights.  I see new expression given license not just by the masses, but by structures of a government which truly follows the will of the common man, and not the will of an elite few.  I see America breathing full, eyes wide open and alive.

However, this potential future would have to come at a considerable cost.

America has so strayed from its founding roots that it now hungers; starving for lack of nutrients from its natural soil.  As with all other catastrophic societies of the past, we have been manipulated and conned into overlooking and over-rationalizing astonishing injustice and in some cases, unmitigated evil.  I frankly don’t know what else to call it.  There are some acts of malevolence that go beyond human weakness and inadequacy and reach into realms of calculation that are so cold, so soulless, there is simply no other way to describe them.  These actions and attitudes tend to run rampant in dying nations but are rarely singled out and criticized by those in the midst of the great fall.  Each begins with the loss of particular principles and inherent morals that are normally prized under more healthy circumstances, but are despised in times of chaos and uncertainty.

This begins with the rise of moral relativism.

All Is “Rational”…

The concept that our inherent conscience should be set aside at times in order to achieve a “greater good” is a long running philosophy that has led to some of the greatest evils mankind has ever witnessed.  From Plato’s “noble lie”, to Machiavelli’s politics of subversion, to the Marquis De Sade’s insane fantasy world without self limit; such men and those who adopt their ideals have proven that intellect alone is no magic ticket to a well balanced society.  Indeed, intellect without intuitive conscience can be a tool for rationalizing the most horrifying of crimes. 

In America today, we have quite a few moral relativists at the helm of our government, and many more who would advise them.

Ralph Peters, a retired United States Army Lieutenant Colonel and former campaign adviser to John McCain, known for his array of Islamo-fearmongo books and novels, is, in my view, a perfect example of the moral relativist in action.  Talking points from his writings are parroted constantly by Neo-Cons and now Neo-Libs who feel compelled to defend Barack Obama’s continued blood-letting in the Middle East.  Peters asserts that American troops and warfare tactics must become essentially as monstrous as the enemy we fight in order for victory to be achieved.  This is excusable, in his opinion, because America is the “good guy”, and they are the “bad guys”:

http://www.freeman.org/m_online/apr04/peters.htm

Ironically, Peters often uses the example of Rome’s genocidal attacks on Carthage as a primer for his arguments, loosely comparing the “barbarians” of Carthage to the “barbarian” Muslims of his War on Terror.  His position; that Rome was safest when they were absolute in their brutality. 

What Peters ignorantly overlooks (or perhaps deliberately overlooks) is that the fall of Rome was not hastened by outside “barbarians”, but by Rome’s own barbarity and stupidity.  Rome’s elites provoked and gave birth to enemy hoards through their relentless acts of bloodshed across the known world over the course of centuries.  America is set on the same exact path with the help of men like Peters; claiming that our principles stand in the way of our survival, and that all targets are fair game and all means are acceptable as long as we prevail.  The problem is, as Peters admits, one should never declare actual victory in the War on Terror.  Thus, by his own logic, there can be no conclusion, only an endless cycle of death perpetrated in ever more diabolical ways.

Nations that take on this mentality of pure destruction without boundaries lose all high ground in the annals of history. 

It is not enough that a country or a culture should survive; it must also be worthy of survival.  Recent debacles in Afghanistan, including the deliberate killing of 16 civilians (which I’m sure Peters would attempt to advocate), show clearly that the longer you try to occupy a foreign nation based on false premises, the more it will eventually start looking like Vietnam, along with the toll of madness and depression that overtakes soldiers after multiple tours of duty fighting a war that makes no sense to them anymore. 

Science Supercedes Conscience?

In the world of Bioethics, Moral relativism has been refined to an artform, and the prominence of bioethical arguments is expanding considerably here in the U.S.  The reason for this can be tied directly to the elitist adoption of environmental activism as a vehicle to promote morally relative social policies.  The field of climate change continues to offer the most ample venue.  If the very future of our planet is supposedly at stake due to the mere creation of carbon emissions, a product of almost every human action, then all aspects of human life come into question and eventually, lend themselves to taxation, regulation, and domination.

Despite the fact that climate research labs like those at the CRU of East Anglia and NASA still refuse to release the source data for their experiments supporting their assertions that man causes global warming, and the fact that East Anglia’s rigged computer modeling methods were exposed through the Climategate emails, the Bioethics community continues to use manmade global warming as the boogieman rationalization for scientific tyranny.  This includes suggestions of medicating the populace in order to make them more “empathetic” to the dangers of climate change:

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/03/how-engineering-the-human-body-could-combat-climate-change/253981/

The climate change dynamic invariably leads to calls for population reduction.   Arguments have been recently presented stating that because newborn babies do not have fully formed cognition, they are “not yet human” and should be susceptible to legal abortion (of course, men like Steven Pinker, Noam Chomsky, Carl Jung, and many others have proven that there are multiple inherent qualities to children at birth, and Bioethicists have no idea how much of our personality is a part of that, but hey, who am I to argue with a Bioethicist):

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/weird/Killing-Newborn-Babies-141014423.html

For the ancient Aztecs, high priests used the fake threat of the solar eclipse and the swallowing of the sun as a means to control the people and force them to conduct human sacrifice to satiate the bloodlust of their rulers.  In America today, we have high priests in the garb of pseudoscience who use the specter of climate change annihilation to seize similar control and condone clinical human sacrifice to satiate the thirst of environmental elitists for depopulation.

It Always Ends In Cannibalism…

People eating other people is just one of those aspects of extreme decline that the collapse of civilizations seem to illicit.  It goes against all natural law and even our animal instinct, but in a land where principles are rejected wholesale, it can become commonplace.  Most animals avoid turning to cannibalism because their very genetics demand that they continue the species.  This is very difficult to do when one’s own species is self consuming.  Even if conscience were never a question (which it always is), our very DNA should prevent us from such activity.  When it does occur, with extensive participation by the general populace, it is a sure sign of a culture on the edge of a full-on swan dive into epic seventh circle of hell-style calamity.

This is why anyone should feel rather disturbed and sickened at the news that companies like Pepsi, Nestle, and Kraft Foods are working with artificial flavor manufacturer Senomyx, which uses aborted fetal tissue in the creation of its products:

http://healthfreedoms.org/2011/06/01/aborted-fetal-tissue-used-to-test-new-food-additives/

The Senomyx patents which include fetal tissue use (HEK Cell lines that express hetero oligomeric taste receptors) can be viewed here:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-adv.htm&r=0&p=1&f=S&l=50&Query=Senomyx&d=PTXT

Senomyx and the companies associated with it have made a wide range of assertions surrounding this practice.  Some deny fetal tissue is used at all.  Others argue that it is only used in the “testing” of certain chemical flavorings.  While the consensus is that human material is not actually present in the final food products of the companies involved, I find it a bit disconcerting to know that dead fetuses are being used to test better flavor enhancements for someone’s next soda or slice of cheese.  Regardless of how you may feel about the issue of abortion, you have to admit that this lack of respect for human remains for the purposes of profit when numerous alternatives exist is chilling. 

This news, along with the revelation that hybrid rice containing human DNA has been approved by the USDA, tells me that someone out there REALLY wants the average American to dive into at least lighter forms of cannibalism:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-440302/The-rice-human-genes.html

Given these developments, it is only a matter of time before present technological food practices take another step forward into even more questionable realms.  Is the “Soylent Green” method of cannibalism more acceptable than the Aztec form of cannibalism?  No.  Ultimately, both stem from a complete lack of regard for life; a regard that usually keeps societies from tearing themselves to shreds over the rolling boil of a stew pot.

Moments Of Clarity Lost…

The above examples of undesirable trends are only a taste of the stampede of modern tyranny that we must brace for and defend against in the near term.  The most important factor of all is to understand why a social condition causes us pain.  In regret, and in sadness, that which makes us human is most distinctly felt.  Our inner voice, once lost or forgotten, is difficult to retrieve.  The ease by which the darker side of life presents itself becomes enticing, and, the good we were once capable of fades. 

America (and the rest of the world) is at the most important stage of historical life; the stage at which the people choose to leave all reason behind to ride the mangling tides of fate, or, choose to stand and fight for a clarity of sight one could only define as individual destiny.  Regardless of the circumstances we are eventually faced with, one difficult truth remains; without a sense of honor and principle, there can be no liberty, and therefore, no society worth a damn.  Some see this as a handicap in the battle for transparency and truth in our culture.  I do not. 

In the end, HOW we fight is just as important as WHY we fight.  The example we set is just as important as the ideals we espouse.  The way we live is just as important if not more important than the length of our time on this planet.  What we leave behind after the dust settles and our land driven forms remain but cast shadows in the minds of generations we will never meet, is what makes us who we are.  Anyone who says that the “ends justify the means”, is not serving the future, but the moment, and that moment will be harsh and fleeting…

 

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Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:28 | 2261622 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

This news, along with the revelation that hybrid rice containing human DNA has been approved by the USDA, tells me that someone out there REALLY wants the average American to dive into at least lighter forms of cannibalism:

i don't think he's referring to cunnilingus here, is he?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:40 | 2261657 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

this article is all well and good, but did you hear the news that Snooky is pregnant and that Whitney Spears dies in a horrible bathtub accident?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:53 | 2261706 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

Wait! Whitney Spears is dead? I thought Britney Houston died from drinking healthy radioactive sake produced from healthy radioactive rice in Fukushima?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:57 | 2261721 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Well, if we're going to devolve the top comment slots into a Hollywood gossip party, let's get something of substance in here: Tila Tequila Suffers Brain Aneurysm After Exposing Illuminati

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:06 | 2261755 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Andrew Breitbart died of natural causes after merely threatening to expose a supposed fraud.

Strange world we live in.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:22 | 2262116 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

-As with all other catastrophic societies of the past, we have been manipulated and conned into overlooking and over-rationalizing astonishing injustice and in some cases, unmitigated evil-

overlooked? over-rationalized?

More like "Co-opted" I'd say...

All those .gov pensions(Fed, state and local)...all those .gov checks, benefits, seniority, perks, tenure etc...

"L'etat c'est moi" (well, not me personally. I have none of the above-but the wife does)

Sun, 03/18/2012 - 13:17 | 2267270 bigerny
bigerny's picture

Amazing article,thank you.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 05:48 | 2267989 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

You're welcome.

 

edit: another one for consideration...

 

Robert Fisk: Madness is not the reason for this massacre

 

I'm getting a bit tired of the "deranged" soldier story. It was predictable, of course. The 38-year-old staff sergeant who massacred 16 Afghan civilians, including nine children, near Kandahar this week had no sooner returned to base than the defence experts and the think-tank boys and girls announced that he was "deranged". Not an evil, wicked, mindless terrorist – which he would be, of course, if he had been an Afghan, especially a Taliban – but merely a guy who went crazy.

 

continued here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-madne...

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 20:21 | 2263948 Errol
Errol's picture

Bananamerican, you are quite right.  Americans will rationalize sowing death and destruction in sovereign oil-producing states so long as it permits them to keep driving their bloated "fashion statements".

IMO, the author is overlooking the beam in his eye (slaughter for oil) while promoting his agenda of discrediting climate change's mote in their eye.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:10 | 2261774 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

I guess 'Illuminati' doesn't mean what I always thought it did.

And I bet Tila Tequila had a big one.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:09 | 2261749 YBNguy
YBNguy's picture

Had to stop reading when he tried to explain the fall of Rome. He is either vague on his idea of the 'elites' role, or fails to understand the move of Roman rule to the east (future Byzantine Empire) as the main cause of west Rome's demise.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:25 | 2261784 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

So do you apparently.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:25 | 2261843 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I remember something about deficit spending and the devaluation of the currency.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:43 | 2261918 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Nonsense! By 300 AD Rome was already long down the road to collapse.            Milestones

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:51 | 2262551 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Rome collapsed because they consumed more than they ever produced. Their economy grew as they invaded and conquered productive neighbors. When no neighbors worth invading were left, they taxed the citizens and colonies into economic squalor. Sound familiar?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:20 | 2262670 JohnKozac
JohnKozac's picture

The decay of the America is largely a cultural issue:

Ind. basketball dad knocks coach unconscious because he forced daughter to run laps

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/indiana-basketball-f...

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:04 | 2261743 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"i don't think he's referring to cunnilingus here, is he?"

Depends - if they got the human DNA from this girl he just might be ;-)

(PG-13)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-k79ry8sg2FY/TdIY5Fd6W3I/AAAAAAAAB5M/hZqCXLgtKFU/s1600/Asian+Hot.jpg

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:54 | 2262248 prains
prains's picture

Cheers

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 08:55 | 2264670 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

What sort of Prancer arrowed that one down??

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:23 | 2261837 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

bigdumbnugly

The SIL just instituted saying grace before meals.

I wondered if she and the little man have the same practice before oral stimulation?

I am not allowed to ask them.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:27 | 2262411 RollinsArline3
RollinsArline3's picture

my roomate's mom makes $83/hr on the computer. She has been fired from work for 9 months but last month her pay check was $18339 just working on the computer for a few hours. Read more on this web site .....  http://bit.ly/FPPP3j

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 17:46 | 2263540 Turgid_Member
Turgid_Member's picture

Sure your homosexual roomate's mom makes that kind
of money. But most people aren't inclined to
sit all day at a porn site's webcam performing
unnatural acts with a casaba.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:40 | 2261638 smb12321
smb12321's picture

Technology has and will bring incredible wonders, changing us and our culture forever.  Looking back 20 years from now things will seem quaint. But even if our prejudices, likes, dislikes, loves and hates are simply chemical secretions of genes (probably they are) they are still authentic and meaningful.  Kindness is more of a human trait than evil. 

Empires and cultures rise and fall. We can almost sense the winds blowing from West to East, a sort of dynamism and that's incredibly sad because we have much more to offer (and have offered much more) that the new powers that wannabe.

I do find it ironic that progressives are now in the forefront for an all-powerful authoritarian state and attribute this to the politicalization of all human activity.  What we eat, wear, read. say, watch, speak, buy or look at is now seens as simpy a political statement and thus, some choices are good and others are evil.  That is the start of the acceptance of a regime of authoritarianism. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:55 | 2261713 duo
duo's picture

The war on terror is becoming the equivalent of the Aztec priests needing to sacrifice humans every morning to insure the sun comes up (wouldn't want to make it mad).

Riddle me this:  If they outlaw abortion, where will they get the fetal tissue needed to make this flavor enhancer?  Nestle vs the Catholic church?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:17 | 2261808 DOT
DOT's picture

Cell lines are perpetuated as required.

Patents are granted when uniquiness is found eg. HeLa.

 

Thanks, Henrietta, you have saved thousands from a too early death.

 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:18 | 2262102 ATM
ATM's picture

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.  - James Madison 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:19 | 2262106 MeetTozter
MeetTozter's picture

Roman Catholic Priest sperm

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:56 | 2261718 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

I do find it ironic that progressives are now in the forefront for an all-powerful authoritarian state and attribute this to the politicalization of all human activity. 

 

Why do you find this ironic?  Totalitarianism is the intent of the progressive agenda.  It is veiled in utopian sounding things like egalitarianism, equality, ecological stewardship, etc. etc.  But it is all oriented toward the individual being suboordinate to the state. 

This article does a nice job of neatly pulling the mask off of environmentalism as nothing more than a theology arguing for centralized control over all molecular motion.  That's the "progressive" agenda.

Plato, Marx, Thomas More, etc. all claimed to espouse uber-progressive societal models.  I'll take John Locke's framework over those any day.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:01 | 2261735 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Beat me to it, and quite well stated. This is a good book for anyone interested: Omnipotent Government: The Rise of the Total State and Total War by Ludwig von Mises

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:54 | 2261992 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Plato: An excellent early example of fascism.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:45 | 2262202 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Have the junkers even read Plato's work?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:36 | 2262468 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Objection!  Presumes the junkers can read.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 07:51 | 2264630 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Objection! Presumes the junkers could comprehend it, even after reciting the words ;-)

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:25 | 2262124 memyselfiu
memyselfiu's picture

Please explain this 'environmentalism as theology'. Sounds interesting. Are you saying that environmentalists suspend all logic and reason to believe in the greater good of our biosphere and its inhabitants, or that the earth is god?

This article pulls the mask off nothing btw.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:54 | 2262563 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Yes, most environmentalists believe what they are told by the other "initiated". It does not matter that all evidence points against their beliefs.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 09:07 | 2264677 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

I don't think it's the cult of environmentalism per say as much as it is the cult of Orthodox Science.  Books have been written about how the scientific process has been retarded by an orthodoxy that seeks to stifle questioning of the status quo, for various reasons ranging from political to economic, but deeper thinkers among the scientific community have begun to see a pattern of orthodoxy that makes scientists of the inquisitive (real) variety as Galilean (as in Galileo) targets for persuction and ridicule.  This ranges from global warming questioners to physicists working in string theory to a biologist SWEARING that they just saw a coelocanth in a Madagascar fish market.  These anti-science scientists take their belief in the status quo on faith not experimentation and defend it with a fervor only see in religious devotion...so what else to call it but - religion.  Radical (not rational) environmentalists are the monastic zealotsand latter-day flagellants of this movement.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:05 | 2261753 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

smb12321

"Kindness is more of a human trait than evil. "

Can you be more full of shit? First one mans evil is anothers blessing, evil is a fucking relative term. Second how the fuck would kindness be more human than evil? If at all they would be goddamned equal.

"But even if our prejudices, likes, dislikes, loves and hates are simply chemical secretions of genes (probably they are) they are still authentic and meaningful."

Tell that to a Schizophrenic.

CUT THE FUCKING HIPPY SHIT TALK!

 

Science will take us to places unimagined, but we will be held back bo our outdated principles and prejudices. Humanity craves a static lifestyle, we don't handle change well at all.

We shoot ourselves in our own foot by not accepting the reality of an ever changing world.

 


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:10 | 2261773 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Halleluja.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:20 | 2261821 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

'Science will take us to places unimagined, but we will be held back bo our outdated principles and prejudices. Humanity craves a static lifestyle, we don't handle change well at all.'

Whoa Gully! Science isn't glue-huffing, mmkay?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:26 | 2261848 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

GeneMarchbanks

Whoa dude, in the seventies I would never have imagined I could hold whole libraries of music, or porn, on a tiny little box.

Back then Breast Cancer tended to be a guaranteed killer.

So yeah Science applied is a very heady experience.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:34 | 2261879 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Ah, I see. It's not so much 'science' that you're speaking of but the worship of trivial techno-trinkets. I do enjoy my Prague whores but I'm old fashioned. Well, to each his own I guess.

 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 15:52 | 2263103 XitSam
XitSam's picture

"in the seventies .. blah blah"

Didn't read much science fiction then, did you?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:36 | 2261889 Maghreb
Maghreb's picture

Hate to go full doomer but you seem to have a huge amount of faith in Science, may i remind you of the guys doing the science. Scientists, as every bit as flawed as the rest of humanity. Those outdated principals and prejudices as fucked up as they are.....we'll call them religion for arguments sake........they've been keeping people alive for thousands of year. This Science shit has given that same repeat offender humanity the ability to blow up the world after about 150 years. Think back to the 50 years the world spent with nucleaur weapons pointed at each other arguing whether private bankers or central planners should wield total power over our economies.

 

World is moving on no doubt, but its the final stop i'm worried about....

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:36 | 2262175 memyselfiu
memyselfiu's picture

SO what you're saying is that science is to blame for the short sighted ignorance that all of humanity suffers? Maybe we should have stayed in the cave in order so that we can't destroy the world....

The scientific method, applied properly, has saved millions. To dismiss it as 'this science shit' betrays your utter ignorance of even the very fingers that you are using to type with.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:41 | 2262484 Winisk
Winisk's picture

For all the science bashing I have yet to hear a critique of the scientific method (applied properly).  And yet they all are quick to enjoy the goodies it brings to the table.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:42 | 2262502 Maghreb
Maghreb's picture

I like the scientific method, devising experiments based on logic and reason and what not. Problem is Science gets hijacked by lunatics used an excuse for god knows what. Communism was a Science, Eugenics was a science, Climatology is a Science. Both gave small groups of individuals power over vast masses and the ability to do immense harm. These weren't new ideas, i've read the same thing a dozen times, its just used as a way to convince people to do things. Give us your shit or you die/they must die and we must take their shit.

Science is just understanding and manipulating nature. Humans do this to acquire power. I wouldn't mind so much but we are harnessing immense amounts of power and are capable of doing huge amounts of damage. 1000 men profit from a nucleaur power plant that taints the Earth for 10,000 years. Humans can't and won't think in those time frames. We crossed a threshhold with the Manhattan Project. Why not consider crossing back, forgetting a few things........

The most frightening thing for me is and why this article resonates with me is lunatics have been having wet dreams about this shit for thousands of years. Live for ever, destroy my enemies for eternity. I'm not sure about God but i know alot of people that thought they were him during the course our history. Science has given them that power. It was always about that from the earliest scientists they were there to push the boundries of knowledge and understanding for the INDIVIDUAL. They were a bunch of Occultists, Newton, Bacon, Goethe, countless others, their methods were good, but the spirit that pushed them onwards was self glorification. The Enlightenment and the championing of Science wasn't about the millions that could be saved it was about the people that would glory in Saving them........or destroying them.

I'm not ignorant i just agree with the Unabomber on more than a few points.

I'm not pushing to abolish Science but i am going to preach caution in its support and application. This little thread was started by someone talking about human emotion being "merely" chemicals. I'm pretty sure the Scientists working on MkUltra or some smack head in a gutter feel exactly the same way about that statement.

I beg to differ........

 

 

 

 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:45 | 2262783 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

would that more people truly understood what you're saying here. . .

Problem is Science gets hijacked by lunatics used an excuse for god knows what.

 

Science is just understanding and manipulating nature. Humans do this to acquire power

 

The Enlightenment and the championing of Science wasn't about the millions that could be saved it was about the people that would glory in Saving them........or destroying them.

blindly worshiping "science" is just as harmful to humanity as blindly worshiping a god (there are many current gods, let's just acknowledge that in order to have YOUR god over all, the OTHER gods can't be "true" - rinse, repeat).  note that people set "science" as an opposition to "god" - duality argument, "rational vs. irrational"  "logic vs. illogic" - it's in the language, this versus thinking - and if you're educated into it, then it frames your THOUGHTS until you can see through the mind-training.

thanks for a thought-full post - +100 internet points. . .(and a free pic)

http://www.shedworking.co.uk/2009/08/unabomber-vs-thoreau.html

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:57 | 2262825 Mysteerious Roo...
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman's picture

Precisely! Go to the head of the class.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:52 | 2262809 Mysteerious Roo...
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman's picture

Reductio ad absurdum.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 21:13 | 2264073 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

"Humanity craves a static lifestyle, we don't handle change well at all."

The only reason humans are what they are is as the result of adapting to changing environments.  You may not like what you see, but change has made us what we are.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:56 | 2261972 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Kindness is more of a human trait than evil?  Evil is not a trait.  It is an action.  You commit evil or good.  The human trait here to blame is indifference.  That trait is probably bred into us and is part of our herd mentality.  A ton of evil is committed because of indifference.  "He who does not punish evil commands it to be done."

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:36 | 2262174 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Good comment Silver.

"All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing" - Albert Einstein

Purchasing power erosion makes the guy or gal next to you steal and the state(s) encourage the practice for administrative fees. Pain is the evolutionary catalyst of change and there is plenty more coming. The next eight years will be very bad. Human nature ryhmes in fairly predictable cycles.

The cycle of the Producer lasts 40 years and attracts the Robbers. The cycle of the robber lasts about 40 years and culminates in war. I do hope I am wrong.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 15:14 | 2262872 Mysteerious Roo...
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman's picture

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke, not Einstein. Good post all the same.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 15:10 | 2262909 Mysteerious Roo...
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman's picture

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Edmund Burke, not Einstein. Good post all the same.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:34 | 2261640 Tic tock
Tic tock's picture

The scariest information I think I may have ever read.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:36 | 2261644 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

Did Brandon read my BOOK??!!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:36 | 2261645 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Send in the Spaniards.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:58 | 2261723 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

"Send in the clowns"..?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:06 | 2261754 ebworthen
Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:57 | 2262258 prains
prains's picture

Send in the downs.....XXY

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 20:16 | 2263938 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

that would be Klinefelter syndrome

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:37 | 2261647 no life
no life's picture

bite my ass

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:06 | 2261750 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

^ This is why you should never post while simultaneously being in a sex chat with Cambodian ladyboys.

You've been warned.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:37 | 2261648 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"If the very future of our planet is supposedly at stake due to the mere creation of carbon emissions, a product of almost every human action, then all aspects of human life come into question and eventually, lend themselves to taxation, regulation, and domination."

So because no one can prove it to you beyond a reasonable doubt and because some may try to profit from changing our ways, we should ignore it.  The climate change deniers used to say there was no climate change.  Now they blame the sun.  Tobacco companies used to make exactly the same arguments as this author.   If there is even a small chance that thousands of scientists are correct on this issue, it would be incredibly selfish and naive to continue on our merry way because they may be wrong.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:39 | 2261655 smb12321
smb12321's picture

Scientifically, every use of any type of fuel except photosynthesis  (my hope for the future) creates heat and thus, raises temperature.  If we want to stop global warming (and yes, it is happening at a rapid pace) then we must change the fuel source - simple as that.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:46 | 2261676 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

Not to get on a scientific discussion here but... HEAT created from the burning of fuels or metabolism DOES NOT CREATE GLOBAL WARMING...The universe is all just energy. It can not be created or destroyed. It can only be changed from one form to another and math proves this 100%.

GREEN HOUSE GASES on the other hand TRAP radiation in the form of heat in the atmosphere... and also it seems that as soon as scientists thouoght they had global warming figured out, a whole bunch of other variables were brought forth..

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:25 | 2262123 ATM
ATM's picture

Or CO2 simply traps heat in a test tube but no one has a fucking clue whether or how it does so in the atmosphere.

Or a warmer Earth is actually a blessing for humans as it always has been thoughout Man's short existence on the planet. Warmer Earth = prosperity and human advancement. Colder Earth = starvation, misery, disease, death.

I choose warmth!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:40 | 2262187 memyselfiu
memyselfiu's picture

me too!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:43 | 2262506 Jason_1sandal
Jason_1sandal's picture

"GREEN HOUSE GASES on the other hand TRAP radiation in the form of heat in the atmosphere... and also it seems that as soon as scientists thouoght they had global warming figured out, a whole bunch of other variables were brought forth.."

This is what I don't get. In 2005 it was claimed that the CO2 in the atmosphere was 379 ppm. If my calculation is correct that's 39 molecules of CO2 in every 100,000. My question is, how do 39 molecules of CO2 heat up the other 99,961 other molecules ?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:52 | 2261697 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

did detonating thousands of nuclear weapons raise the temperature of the earth?

does the military burning 25% of the US's fuel factor in?

do thousands of bombs raise the temp of the earth when they are set off or dropped on brown people?

 

i vote we stop those activities first, and if it helps the temp problem at all, then i may begin to believe the ludicrous theory of AGW and paper passports surviving fires that destroy buildings

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:32 | 2262154 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Don't forget those pesky volcanic eruptions.  Those should be regulated by the government too.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:48 | 2262541 Jason_1sandal
Jason_1sandal's picture

BAN VOLCANOS !!!!!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:54 | 2262816 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

perhaps they are.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:58 | 2262014 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Really? The SUN causes our global warming.  I'm very thankful for that fuel source too.  When you figure out a way to change it out with a another source, please let me know.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:46 | 2261679 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

are you lobbying for a new ice age ,or have you forgotten that the temperature of earth has constantly changed for billions of years?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:50 | 2261688 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

LetThemEat....hey nothings stopping you, sell your house and everything, shut off your computer and go move into a teepee. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:07 | 2261760 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

So selfish fucks like you can continue ruining the planet for all of us?  No thanks.   The problem could be solved by concerted public effort, such as building infrastructure for alternatives to gas fueled vehicles.  This is why we need a government, unfortunately.  I wish everyone could just get along and work together and not try to take everything for themselves, but the world is full of narcissistic sociopaths such as yourself.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:11 | 2261775 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

So selfish f***s like you can continue ruining the planet for all of us?

 

Great work, SD-1.  You got him to admit his agenda.  Right there for all to see.

The "progressive" agenda is borne out of envy and is designed to have the "progressives" oversee central control and relegate the "lesser folk" to serving the state.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:16 | 2261805 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Yeah that's it, I'm just a commie trying to take your money and enslave you because I believe that society as a whole could fix a major ecological problem by pulling together and making it a priority.   Nice logical and well reasoned response.  

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:23 | 2261838 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Step away from the mirror, Rand.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:31 | 2261867 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I can't remember...  Am I rubber and you're glue, or vice-versa?  There is no progressive boogie man.  Your way of thinking is the same tribal bullshit that drives people in Arkansas to think t'rrists are out to get 'em so we all need to be raped at the airport.  Wake up.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:38 | 2261900 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Tell me what "my way of thinking" is.  Please.  I'd love to hear it.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:50 | 2261962 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"Totalitarianism is the intent of the progressive agenda.  It is veiled in utopian sounding things like egalitarianism, equality, ecological stewardship, etc. etc.  But it is all oriented toward the individual being suboordinate to the state."

That is utter horseshit.  There are globalists pretending to be progressives like Obama, and there are progressives like myself who voted for Ron Paul because he's anti police state.  You can't see the difference because of your Tribe affiliation.  

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:02 | 2262029 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

What is my Tribe affiliation, Mr. Probst?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:24 | 2262120 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Chimp.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:47 | 2262208 memyselfiu
memyselfiu's picture

lol!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:35 | 2262482 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

It's hysterical when the number of junks one gets precisely matches the number of simpletons attaboy-ing one another's posts.

Yet, somehow, no substance to be found in the lot.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 21:02 | 2264044 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

shorter mayhem:  "oooh  oogg!  banana feel good in mayhem bunghole!" 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 15:34 | 2263017 Mysteerious Roo...
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman's picture

You are not necessarily wrong and I cannot say that your opinions are invalid, of course, which is not to say that they are either right or wrong, but your way of expressing them is perhaps a trifle self-righteous, and ZHers (including you, I'm guessing) don't take to that mode of expression. From what I've seen, ZHers respond more to humor than to, well, to preaching. Just sayin'.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:30 | 2261861 DOT
DOT's picture

No one thinks you're a Commie.

Asshat would be closer to the mark.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:22 | 2261833 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Your thoughts are like an untied pair of shoelaces.

 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:09 | 2261768 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

No no no, the global warming loons want everyone else to do it. The masters of the movement fly around in private jets telling their tool followers to spread the gospel of limousine liberalism.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:19 | 2261786 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The world is full of hypocrites.  It will be small consolation to the residents of the planet in the not so distant future if the 1000's of scientists who agree with man-made global warming are correct and a few ideologues who have no scientific training or experience and merely desire to continue driving around in Hummers are wrong.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:31 | 2261862 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

There was a time when  "scientists" thought the earth was the center ot the universe. I only have one thing to say about the global warming hoax....follow the money.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:33 | 2261873 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You mean the oil companies who say it's all the sun's fault (after denying for years that there was such a thing as climate change)?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:43 | 2261917 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

No I mean people in positions of power who seek to profit off of pseudoscience like Al Gore and his fund. It is also important to follow the funding of said 1000's of scientists who manipulated data and supressed emails to come up with the desired conclusion. Only a fool thinks the sun has nothing to do with climate. The climate has been changing for billions of years before humans and it will change billions of years after we are gone. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:52 | 2261977 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Do you also believe that radiation leaking from a damaged reactor is good for you because there is natural radiation?   Does the fact that natural radiation exists at certain levels mean that any additional amount added to the earth is good and/or meaningless?  And do you believe that man  is too puny to affect the earth as a whole?  If so, care to hang around for worldwide nuclear war?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:02 | 2262034 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Nope I don't believe any of that. Do you believe that the government you love and treasure so much should continue to hide the truth of such radiation? Think about your answer before you answer, Because just maybe if they are lying about the radiation the just might lie about global warming.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:11 | 2262076 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The government officially denied global warming for a long time.  Remember your buddies Bush and Cheney?   And most Republicans in Congress?  And lots and lots of state governors and other lawmakers who continue to deny it?  It's the scientists I listen to, not the government.    The vast majority believe in man made global warming.  

 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:30 | 2262119 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

You know what?  I dislike Bush and Cheney almost as much as I dislike our current dictator want to be.  If you believe there is a difference between the two parties then you are beyond help.The fact is just like the "studies" that were funded by the tobacco company which tried to prove smoking wasn't harmful were bogus , so are the studies of said "scientists". They suppressed emails and other information to get the results they desired. That is an undisputed fact.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:56 | 2262255 memyselfiu
memyselfiu's picture

What an utterly bullshit argument. So the tobacco companies hired a scientist or two to produce a biased study. They didn't hire fucking 97% of the scientists available in the field. Start with a false premise and build, you might as well be lying through your teeth.

 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:33 | 2262334 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The false premise is the fact that people like you continue to try and advance an argument that is known to be based on lies. There is no disputing they adjusted their models and suppressed emails to achieve the desired response. My argument is when there is money and funding involved there is no unbiased opinion. Follow the money and you will find the truth. If you're to stupid to comprehend that then there is no helping you. Another thing that 97% number is a crock of shit.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:50 | 2262802 acetinker
acetinker's picture

My gut instinct is that AGW is about 80% PABS (pure-unadulterated-bull-shit).  On to LetThemEatRand:  His name even pisses me off.  I'd guess s/he is 24 years old, has a college degree in let's say "human studies" and lacks the street smarts to know when s/he's being bamboozled and the temerity of a twelve year-old when caught red-handed taking money out of daddy's wallet.  It's normalcy bias, really.  LTER just hasn't figured out what "normal" really is.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 16:19 | 2263235 Mysteerious Roo...
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman's picture

"That is an undisputed fact."

I think you mean "indisputable," not "undisputed."

Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman KNOWS!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:57 | 2262577 Jason_1sandal
Jason_1sandal's picture

What about these scientists ???? http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=196 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 15:03 | 2262806 Esculent 69
Esculent 69's picture

alright time to put the hammer down on this assclown. Scientist try to hide the decline in temps because it doesn't fit their preconceived notion even though NASA has stated repeatedly that temps have been going down since 1998.

http://climate.nasa.gov/news/index.cfm?FuseAction=ShowNews&NewsID=175

notice how it describes the known natural fluctuations in earths climate and temps, not to mention that global temps have risen a staggering two degrees over the last....100 years. 

 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3624242/There-IS-a-prob... also refuse to tell or accept

the science, not theory, of heat escaping the atmosphere at greater rates than expectedhttp://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2011/07/27/new-nasa-data-blow-ga...

Notice on the following chart how since the regulation of pollutants and aerosols the temps in the arctic have INCREASED. http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoX69hGNPJEoAv3SJzbkF... is that.

Could it be because pollution and air particles reflects the suns heat outward. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2011297/Coal-burning-Chin...

Are these scientists wrong? It's always about the dollar bills yal and just look who is setting up the carbon exchanges.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/cover031307.htm

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2007/3413carbon_swindle.html

It's ok to pollute just make sure you buy a carbon credit so we can redistribute the wealth of the USA to poor countries that need it......so they can be dependent on world gov'thttp://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/files/SunsteinWeb6.pdf

BTW Cass Sunstein is Obama's regulatory czar. 

It's not about the climate. It's about gov't control and it always has been. Call it progressivism, socialism, communism or whatever but it is collectivism vs the individual as it has always been.  And you are still a commie 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:12 | 2262081 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Would everyone against the use of oil please immediately stop using all forms of plastic.  Throw away your iPad, computer, etc.  They are no longer allowed.  We have to do it to save the planet!!!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:21 | 2262112 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

No rational person is "against the use of oil."  It is about a meaningful effort by societies to develop alternatives rather than continuing the status quo, as we have been doing for decades.    But how convenient for you to dictate that others must solve the problem that affects us all.   I guess if you deny the existence of the problem, you can pretend that you are not just being selfish in desiring not do to anything about it and forcing others to make even greater sacrifices so you do not need to give up a thing.   If you actually think about it for a minute rather than just regurgitate the nonsense fed to you by corporate shills like Rush, we can all have our cake and eat it to if we put our minds to it, including the continued but more moderate use of oil.  

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:30 | 2262140 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Damn dude.  Have a drink.  You're way too uptight.  Rush?  That's damned funny.  Eff Rush and his fascist followers.  Do you really think the majority of Zero Hedge members are Rush listeners?  LOL

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 12:44 | 2262167 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I think LetThemEatRand is more intuned with Rush than he/she admits. Probably a devout listener. He/she can't think for him/herself so they have to be spoonfed what "scientists" or government feeds him/her.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:03 | 2262279 memyselfiu
memyselfiu's picture

Another dumb fucking argument Silver Dreamer.

Everyone against speeding should start walking! I haven't seen one person on this site state that they are against the use of oil.

It's about responsible use and the end of externalizing cost. If I can keep my yard clean by letting my dog shit in yours does that make it right? How about if I just let him piss there and it kills your grass, is that better or worse because now you have no piles of shit to pin the blame on?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:19 | 2262363 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Wow, you guys are angry.  Apparently, I should have added some /sarc lines to my post.  How do you like your Jameson?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:40 | 2262492 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

"Angry" and "progressive" are synonymous.  The former gives birth to the latter.  These guys prove it daily.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 15:00 | 2262841 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

so, all these conservative shouty dudes on the radio. . . are progressives?  

/*confused*

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 21:07 | 2264060 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

No, conservatives are those guys that self identify as weenies = less than 1 inch.  Not a big surprise...big boasts on the internet...tiny weiners.   Yeah, I'm talkin' to you mayhem mini weenie.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 15:50 | 2263091 Mysteerious Roo...
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman's picture

I--Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman--YES! I!--I have cancelled ze nuclear var!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:53 | 2261704 SymforniX
SymforniX's picture

"Despite the fact that climate research labs like those at the CRU of East Anglia and NASA still refuse to release the source data for their experiments supporting their assertions that man causes global warming..."

No one needs to prove anything - just show us the data.  All scientists, everywhere, show us your data and methods. Not everyone is stupid. Yet.

If GM is actually happening (which I do not doubt), then show me the DATA and and methods of acquiring said data indicating that human activity is anything but a marginal factor. All of it. Everywhere, from every group undertaking such study. In the absence of such, I call bullshit.

Anyone foolish enough to play Calvinball, especially when they are not Calvin, is asking for a boot in the face.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:04 | 2261748 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

If there is even a small chance that thousands of scientists are correct on this issue, it would be incredibly selfish and naive to continue on our merry way because they may be wrong.

 

Ah yes, the law of large numbers argument.  What percent of the world's scientists thought at one point that the world was flat, despite an obviously-spherical moon orbiting it in plain view?

Lots of "scientists" believe in evolution, too, despite the irrefutable and irreconcilable holes in the theory.

Get under the hood of the agenda, and you will realize that global warming zealots aren't trying to prove anything - they just want to consolidate control and eliminate individual sovereignty.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:08 | 2262311 memyselfiu
memyselfiu's picture

what was science back then but pseudo rational theology? Are you seriously using that argument, trying to rationalize scientific flaws absent of the dictatorial heretical religious structure hanging over top of it?

You just proved yourself a dumb fuck with an agenda.

Irrefutable and irreconcilable holes in any theory are part and parcel of science. Incude gravity which we use quite successfully on a daily basis.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:46 | 2262528 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Gravity is readily observable, and it's existence is easily proven.  It's just that the science world hasn't yet been able to define it well enough to link other laws of physics to and through it. 

The existence of man-made Global Warming and Evolution do not hold the same standing as gravity.  Evolutionists simply admit that they "have no answer" for the fallacies underlying the fundamentals (like irreducible complexity, the eye, the need for asexual organisms to spawn male and female coincidentally, and the all-important no evidence anywhere/anyplace of a new species evolving from another (not new strain...species)).

Try again, Dr. Carnal Trinity.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:56 | 2262572 Baleful Runes 4 U
Baleful Runes 4 U's picture

" Evolutionists simply admit that they "have no answer" for the fallacies underlying the fundamentals (like irreducible complexity, the eye, the need for asexual organisms to spawn male and female coincidentally, and the all-important no evidence anywhere/anyplace of a new species evolving from another (not new strain...species))."

Evolutionists don't "admit" that. You have NO idea what you're talking about. Stop reading ID sites and get some good books. Here's a start for your research about the evolution of the eye- Platynereis Dumerilii

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:10 | 2262630 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Really, so what do they believe?  Enlighten us.  And be sure to refute these:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/tj/v17/n2/admissions

http://www.ideacenter.org/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/840

 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:17 | 2262661 Baleful Runes 4 U
Baleful Runes 4 U's picture

hahaha, come on dude.  Your first link references such things as

Woodmorappe, J., Noah’s Ark: A Feasibility Study, Institute for Creation Research, El Cajon,

 

haha  this is a joke, right? you got me

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:22 | 2262680 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

So you took the time to look up the link and at least glance through it...yet you cannot reply to the substance of the issues?

I'll take that as a firm "gee I really don't know."

Thanks for playing.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 15:52 | 2263101 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Still using arguments that start with "if".  Just count the number of "if's" in yer video.  I don't think you understand the basic precept of empirical evidence, but instead you just keep reinforcing my point.  So thanks!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 18:04 | 2263600 Baleful Runes 4 U
Baleful Runes 4 U's picture

haha  I invite anyone to watch the 6 minute youtube video and make up their own minds.

You are totally out of your depth

 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:04 | 2262601 memyselfiu
memyselfiu's picture

You disappoint me mayhem_korner, and this from a person who seemingly loves the muppet show!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:09 | 2262627 memyselfiu
memyselfiu's picture

no, gravitational 'theory' works up to a point and then falls short. Everybody that understands this also understands that there will always be blank spaces between knowledge. Some of us will strive to fill these holes by increasing our knowledge while others will fill these holes with faeries and unicorns and zeus, and thusly cease to grow.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:17 | 2262659 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

no, gravitational 'theory' works up to a point and then falls short.

 

You probably didn't recognize the pun you penned.  Nonetheless, tell us what part of an apple falling from a tree and hitting the ground makes gravity ambiguous.  The theory of gravity only gets hazy when gravity is a component to proving or disproving something else.  But no one argues that gravity doesn't exist. 

That's all I was saying with the gravity reference.  It exists without question.  And that, mr. muppet-hater, is one rather important step beyond man-made global warming and evolution.

 

 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 16:11 | 2263200 Mysteerious Roo...
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman's picture

Don't look now, but much of science today has a "dictatorial [...] religious structure hanging over top of it." It's just a different religion, that's all. And who is to say that 500 years hence, they won't look back on us and say, "What was science back then but pseudo rational theology?"

"In the 21st century, they would actually cut open peoples' bodies to perform what they called 'surgery.' Can you imagine!"

Or, "Those 21st-century dolts actually believed in a superstition they called 'string theory.' "

And so on.

"New occasions teach new duties;

Time makes ancient good uncouth;

They must upward still and onward

Who would keep abreast of truth." (James Russell Lowell)

And I probably ought to mention that I invented the internet. Algore is a wannabe.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:32 | 2262446 Baleful Runes 4 U
Baleful Runes 4 U's picture

"Lots of "scientists" believe in evolution, too, despite the irrefutable and irreconcilable holes in the theory."

haha  tell me youre joking and not the king of dumb fucks?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:55 | 2262562 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Tell you what...why don't you answer these questions and then get back to me:

1)  Name a species that has evolved from another.

2)  What is the evolutionary biologists' collective response to the problem of irreducible complexity?

3)  Why are there no fossil records (other than the disproven ones) of any "mistakes" or "bridges" in the evolutionary process of trial and error?  (Why is the so-called "missing link" still missing?)

4)  How did once asexual organisms become male and female at the same time?

5)  How did the eye form?

Since you can't answer any of these questions with real information (no one has for 160 years), where does that leave your belief in the theory?  And why does it make me some "dumb"?

Do some homework instead of regurgitating what the statists tell you.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:07 | 2262621 Baleful Runes 4 U
Baleful Runes 4 U's picture

It looks like you're the one who needs to do your homework. All that shit youre spouting has been addressed by evolutionists. It's obvious you've never read a real science book or journal. I gave you a hint to one of your main problems (the so-called irreducible complexity of the eye) in my other post. Get up to date on current research and youll find inroads are being made into all the hazy spots of evolution.

 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:19 | 2262644 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Really?  Tell me the answers then.  If they are so clearly addressed in refereed journals, then they should be top of mind from someone who is implicitly claiming he reads these things.

You are on a fool's errand.  And don't pretend to know what I read and don't read. 

BTW, when someone refers to him/herself as an "evolutionist" or an "evolutionary biologist" do you think they are unbiased?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:22 | 2262677 Baleful Runes 4 U
Baleful Runes 4 U's picture

refereed journals? you mean peer-reviewed?   did you attend bob jones u? haha....anyway, heres an example.

Larvae of marine invertebrates – worms, sponges, jellyfish - have the simplest eyes that exist. They consist of no more than two cells: a photoreceptor cell and a pigment cell. These minimal eyes, called eyespots, resemble the 'proto-eyes' suggested by Charles Darwin as the first eyes to appear in animal evolution. They cannot form images but allow the animal to sense the direction of light. This ability is crucial for phototaxis – the swimming towards light exhibited by many zooplankton larvae. Myriads of planktonic animals travel guided by light every day. Their movements drive the biggest transport of biomass on earth

For a long time nobody knew how the animals do phototaxis with their simple eyes and nervous system," explains Detlev Arendt, whose team carried out the research at EMBL. "We assume that the first eyes in the animal kingdom evolved for exactly this purpose. Understanding phototaxis thus unravels the first steps of eye evolution."

Studying the larvae of the marine ragworm Platynereis dumerilii, the scientists found that a nerve connects the photoreceptor cell of the eyespot and the cells that bring about the swimming motion of the larvae. The photoreceptor detects light and converts it into an electrical signal that travels down its neural projection, which makes a connection with a band of cells endowed with cilia. These cilia - thin, hair-like projections - beat to displace water and bring about movement.

Shining light selectively on one eyespot changes the beating of the adjacent cilia. The resulting local changes in water flow are sufficient to alter the direction of swimming, computer simulations of larval swimming show.

The second eyespot cell, the pigment cell, confers the directional sensitivity to light. It absorbs light and casts a shadow over the photoreceptor. The shape of this shadow varies according to the position of the light source and is communicated to the cilia through the signal of the photoreceptor.

"Platynereis can be considered a living fossil," says Gáspár Jékely, former member of Arendt's lab who now heads a group at the MPI for Developmental Biology, "it still lives in the same environment as its ancestors millions of years ago and has preserved many ancestral features. Studying the eyespots of its larva is probably the closest we can get to figuring out what eyes looked like when they first evolved."

It is likely that the close coupling of light sensor to cilia marks an important, early landmark in the evolution of animal eyes. Many contemporary marine invertebrates still employ the strategy for phototaxis.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:31 | 2262723 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

You just confirmed that you can't answer one of my questions.  When your theory relies on "probably the closest we can get to figuring out what...." and "it is likely that..." and "these...resemble" and "we assume that" - it isn't exactly air-tight, now is it.

Let me postulate to you that water freezes at 32 degrees farenheit, and I would be glad to give empirical evidence to PROVE that point.  Can your eye-evolution theory match the integrity of such?

I'm impressed by your ability to cut and paste, though.  And BTW, I've refereed journal articles, so call it what you want, Jethro.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 15:25 | 2262985 Baleful Runes 4 U
Baleful Runes 4 U's picture

"" Evolutionists simply admit that they "have no answer" for the fallacies underlying the fundamentals (like irreducible complexity, the eye,"

your words.  ok , I've proven you wrong. As I said they admit no such thing.

Anyway I put a relevant link in another post above.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 15:55 | 2263119 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

You've proven yourself wrong, Bucky.  And I've called you on it.  And I've called you on your link as well.  It's littered with "if" and "let's say", just like your own plagiarized post.

Read your own post again, and tell me if I misquoted the unfounded assumptions.

Your welcome for the lesson.  No charge.  Try pursuing truth instead of answers.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 18:09 | 2263609 Baleful Runes 4 U
Baleful Runes 4 U's picture

plagiarized? I pasted something, obviously.  What is wrong with you? haha

"try pursuing truth instead of answers"

haha what an empty statement. Go back to your braindead creationist reading. 

Ill leave you with a quote   "science isn't about infinite wisdom, but about avoiding infinite error"

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 16:35 | 2263294 Mysteerious Roo...
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman's picture

1)  Name a species that has evolved from another. Ben Bernanke eveloved from Satan. Scientific fact. Everybody knows it.

2)  What is the evolutionary biologists' collective response to the problem of irreducible complexity? The Bureau of Labor Statistics.

3)  Why are there no fossil records (other than the disproven ones) of any "mistakes" or "bridges" in the evolutionary process of trial and error?  (Why is the so-called "missing link" still missing?) Missing? It's living in the White House. Look for it. It's got a big derrière, and it may be identified by its peculiar habit of urging other species not to eat Big Macs. A curious species. Name escapes me at present, but you can probably google for it.

4)  How did once asexual organisms become male and female at the same time? Boy George. Michael Jackson. David Bowie. Janet Reno. Took place on the Ark. You're too young to remember.

5)  How did the eye form? Roundish. Sort of egg-shaped sometimes. What do I win?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 16:40 | 2263314 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Best answer.  Ever. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 15:36 | 2263024 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

people have known for thousands of years that the earth was round.   That is some sort of urban legend type thing.  It was the circumfrence that was in dispute.  Some ancient greek (pythagorus(?)) came up with the first mathematical estimate.    Generally,  the earth was thought to be smaller that it is. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 16:14 | 2263211 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Eratosthenes. Adam Savage TED talk.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:09 | 2261766 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

LetThemEatRand

"The climate change deniers used to say there was no climate change.  Now they blame the sun."

You mean Global Cooling, I'm not certain  that a scientific observation regarding how the Sun is intimately involved with climate on Earth would be construed as "blame".

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:37 | 2261893 DOT
DOT's picture

Assigning "blame" . That's what  LTER likes to do.

That is, when he takes a break from the hate.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 15:41 | 2263048 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

Fools!!   How could you possibly think the sun could affect temperatures on earth?!  Probably bible thumpers or something.  I bet they own guns.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 17:22 | 2263446 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

You are a young idiot.

For those old enough to remember like me.Some of these self same GW zealots were Global freezing zealots back

in the 1960's.

Same shake down for research funds.I fail to see the glaciers that they then so confidently  predicted would

destroy the earth by 2050.

Bollocks.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:18 | 2264214 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Nobody denied climate change, it has been happening for the past 4 billion years. This is analogously equivalent to denying planetary motion or electricity.

What is contested is the impact of humans on the (constantly changing) climate.

" If there is even a small chance that thousands of scientists are correct on this issue, it would be incredibly selfish and naive to continue on our merry way because they may be wrong."

This sentence can, without any modification, be applied to either side of any scientific debate. "Correct on this issue" could just as easily refer to AGW being false as AGW being true. And yes, it would be monumentally stupid to allow the AGW crowd and their supporters to continue on their merry ecofascist way, regardless of the truth or falsity of AGW. Their proposed solutions to the supposed problem are unequivocally not justifiable regardless of the truth or falsity of AGW. They insist on (completely unnecessarily) attaching morally repugnant solutions to the hypothetical problems, making it blatantly obvious that, even if their hypotheses are entirely correct, this is really about power and control.

So you're right, we can't afford to ignore the possibility that they're right ... any more than we can afford to ignore the possibility that they're wrong.

I'm not even going to bother junking you because your argument is so obviously disingenuous.

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