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Guest Post: Man Tries To Relinquish US Citizenship. Application Denied

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Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man

Man Tries To Relinquish US Citizenship. Application Denied

I was approached recently by a member of our Sovereign Man community who filed the paperwork to relinquish US citizenship some time ago. Long story short, after an incomprehensibly long wait, the US government finally sent him a reply: Application DENIED.

Absolutely shocking. That you even have to ‘apply’ to relinquish what you never signed up for is intellectually insulting. That you cannot do so freely, and immediately, is nothing short of totalitarian.

It’s still an embryonic movement, though more and more US citizens are being driven to divorce their country. Last year nearly 1,600 people gave up US citizenship, up from 1,485 in 2010, 731 in 2009, and 226 in 2008.

While some renunciants have philosophical misgivings about being American, most do it for tax reasons. There’s a growing number of expats who, despite living abroad for years, are still paying huge portions of their income to Uncle Sam.

What’s more, the filing requirements are getting more and more onerous. US citizens living overseas have to keep up with all sorts of changes to the tax code that they may not be privy to, and the penalties for noncompliance are severe.

I can’t tell you how many friends I have who are US citizens living abroad that had no idea they were supposed to file the Report of Foreign Bank Account (FBAR) form every year; or the new FATCA form 8938; or those with businesses that must file form 8858 or 5471.

Usually these things come with pretty nasty penalties, possibly up to $10,000 per instance of failure to file.

Then there’s the latest, greatest tax target: accidental US citizens. This group consists of foreigners who happen to be dual nationals because they were born in the US or have an American parent.

These foreigners have spent their entire lives outside the US.  They know absolutely nothing about US tax code. Now they’re getting Dear John letters from the US government saying-

“I see you are a US citizen but have never filed your taxes. Please enclose a check for the following absurd amount of money, which includes interest and penalties for the last 20-years…”

Such tactics smack of desperation… typical of the same sorts of cannibalistic moves that failing, bankrupt governments throughout history have exacted upon their people.

Citizenship is nothing more than accident of birth. Yet in the modern nation-state paradigm, governments lay claim to citizens from the time they’re born as if we’re property.

Children are saddled with obligations that they never signed up for– taxes, compulsory military service, a debilitating national debt, etc.

Most countries at least have procedures to voluntarily surrender citizenship for those who choose to opt out of the system; in the United States, it is contained in section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act.

The process usually takes place overseas at a US consulate– you have to fill out a series of forms, swear an oath in front of a government official, and eventually file a final tax return. Some people even have to pay a steep ‘exit tax’ on the value of their assets.

I know dozens who have done this, and from what my friends tell me, many of the consular officials attempt to impugn, insult, or otherwise intimidate people looking to surrender their citizenship. It’s their last-ditch effort to keep the milk cows from escaping the dairy farm.

For example, one official tried terrorizing a friend of mine last year in South Africa, saying, “This smells like TAX EVASION to me!”

Despite all the forms, the bureaucracy, and the intimidation tactics, I had never heard of a case where someone’s properly submitted ’application’ to surrender citizenship has been denied (bar Ken O’Keefe). Until now.

But in what may be the most distinguishing mark of a totalitarian state, the US government has now officially prevented someone from freely leaving the system. The Soviet Union comes to mind.

It certainly does make one wonder to what desperate lows they will sink to next.


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Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:03 | 2377568 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Sometimes, I would like to relinquish my membership in the human race.  My wife is an Equestrian from the planet Oblivion.  Do I have dual citizenship rights?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:04 | 2377586 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

At least we aren't living (dead) in Egypt!:



Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:07 | 2377599 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Islam mean Piece.  

at least up until 6 hours postmortum.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:09 | 2377611 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

But the clause is that if you sodomize your dead wife you get beheaded! Arab progress on sex!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:15 | 2377631 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



So, it is ok with you (and most of America) to sodomize your living boyfriend, but not your dead wife?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:17 | 2377638 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

I say sodomize everyone! So long as they are wiling participants and I'm on top ;)

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:31 | 2377696 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Ben Bernanke, I knew it was you!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:39 | 2377978 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

and i gently whispered into her rigamortised ear, "one last time habibti, one last time..."

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:50 | 2378013 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

".. it commences after about three to four hours, reaches maximum stiffness after 12 hours, and gradually dissipates until approximately 48 to 60 hours (two and a half days) after death.[2] Warm conditions and physically strenuous activity can speed up the process.."

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 18:42 | 2378458 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Hoary Shit!    We're turning in a giant Hotel California.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 03:48 | 2379412 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

You can check out but you can never leave....
Waiting list in Switzerland is so long that all the slots of 2012 are filled.
I know of people who travel to Vienna or Budapest to give back their US passports at the embassy. Faster process.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 04:55 | 2379442 Element
Element's picture

"There are no 'States' at all, there are only giant 'human-farms', farming the humans, and the farmer has chosen to call the livestock, 'Citizens'."

- Stefan Molyneux (paraphrased)

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:34 | 2377716 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Blankfein is that you?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:45 | 2377773 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Geez... it's not like they're talking about having sex with their dead children or anything.

This is just a normal part of Islam where any guy from the goat farm can be a mullah and make up holy customs.  

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:48 | 2377793 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

they already had the dead goat sodomy act inacted years ago....

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:12 | 2377867 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Take your divide and conquer tactics elsewhere, please.

Ever read the Koran, Bible, or Torah?  Muslims, Christians, and Jews all worship and pray to the same God, the God of Abraham.


Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:14 | 2377891 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

HAHAHAAA well if it's a BESTSELLER, then i guess it must be good!


All faiths are totally FOS! Just like FIAT, just like Teh FED and da IRS! 


So take your lowgrade opining and uh know what to do in your heart of hearts....

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:56 | 2377992 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



We get it.  The US government needs to have its citizens hate the Muslims so that we are ok with invading their nations and taking their natural resources.

For me, Freedom, Liberty, and Private Property are meaningless unless they apply to all.

Watch this video and change your perception.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 21:48 | 2378932 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Unless, of course, its Vast-Dom's liberty to make jokes about Mooslims and goats.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 00:41 | 2379268 swamp
swamp's picture

ALL, as in women too, or ALL as in the usual men only?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:17 | 2377903 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

all worship and pray to the same God

you better be careful with that doctrine.  the great deception is coming

Aquarius: The Age of Evil

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:24 | 2377933 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



You have a different interpretation of Genesis and of Matthew 6:9-13?

Jesus said,


"This, then, is how you should pray: "
'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.'

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:38 | 2377974 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



A webpage with a Southern Baptist version of The Apostle's Creed, an ancient Christian creed, is somehow supposed to expose the evil one?  I do not see how, but that would be great!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 17:27 | 2378170 Likstane
Likstane's picture

I state with utmost confidence(willing to bet my earthly life), that your god is not the same as my God.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 17:36 | 2378186 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Before you do that, maybe you should know who my God is.  My God is the the God of Abraham.

Who is your God?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 17:40 | 2378217 Likstane
Likstane's picture

If your god is not Jesus Christ, then your god is ultimately just yourself.  Using your statement regarding Jews and Muslims having the same god as Christians makes it very clear you are decieved.  Since you are not my God, I must conclude your god is not my God.  Pretty simple conclusion, really.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 18:31 | 2378274 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



I have read your post, above, and have come to the conclusion that you are drunk.  I am cool with that.  I am known to have a drink or two myself.

Maybe when you are sober, you would study Genesis and Matthew 6:9-13?  As a Christian, do you study the Bible?  Do you say the Lord's Prayer?  Who are you praying to if you do?

Jesus said,


"This, then, is how you should pray: "


'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.'

Disintermediate: Take your pastor/priest/rabbi/mullah out from between you and God.

Read scripture (preferably when you are sober) and pray on it.

Peace be with you.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 00:28 | 2379251 Likstane
Likstane's picture

I'm not at peace with drunkards.  I'm not on the same team with you.  You are the enemy if you are "cool" with being drunk.  1 Cor. 6:10 shows you where you are headed.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 10:50 | 2380155 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



I know Paul's writings that you quote. 

Take out the intermediary for a moment to know Jesus Christ's actions and words regarding wine.

The Wedding at Cana: John 2:1-11.

New Wine in New Wineskins: Luke 5:37-38; Mark 2:22.

Is Old Wine is Better? Luke 5:39.

Matthew 11:19;

Luke 7:34.

The Communion Wine: Matthew 26:26-29;

Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:14-23.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:27 | 2377942 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

yeah man that's the very same bullshit that backs our fiat currency. IN GOD WE TRUST that's what Benny says when he hits CNTRL+P and your daily bread and debts go the fuck up!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 17:35 | 2378202 koperniuk666
koperniuk666's picture

fuck off god bothering fairy tale believing twat. This is a blog for intelligent people.

Religion is part of the problem - busy body righteous tell-us-what- to- do cunts.

just like politicians. Same bunch , different names.


Thu, 04/26/2012 - 17:40 | 2378213 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



So all intelligent people, like you, do not believe in God?

Who here has told you what to do with a religious basis?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 19:48 | 2378482 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I'm just wondering how many fires I can start tonight.

So, as an atheist, you have accumulated all evidence & knowledge about this world, in fact the universe...and have come to the conclusion that there is no God...that about right?

Yet, seeing as how it is impossible for man to "know everything" you must be declaring something about yourself here that I can't quite lay my finger

It seems to require faith in your belief, if you are just a man ;-)


As an aside, I love the current meme of the hour...render unto Caesar...all the while withholding the entire passage. Its like trying to deify government

Almost as good I my brothers keeper?...the seed of which is deception, a lie.

Anyways, to the point of this marvelous  article (after this slight diversion)...I always thought it a requirement that every sovereign man have several government issued ID's, in order to render unto Caesar ;-)

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 05:04 | 2379463 Element
Element's picture

argh, you just need to get into the spirit of this a little nmewn!  Something to raise your morale:

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 06:38 | 2379527 nmewn
nmewn's picture morale remains quite high as we venture further down the rabbit hole of prejudice and ignorance, dodging the little hobbit-like creatures encountered along the way...I remain convinced (ultimately) that truth always prevails as it doesn't need modification or nuance...

I freely admit, I do have fun exposing left leaning morality plays for what they are. The ones that are based on an emotional appeal to ones religion are a favorite of the statist mind...sinister, cunning, always deceptive in the desire for control.

Life is a funny thing and in the venture toward "truth" one side or the other...may be confronted with uncomfortable truths that they themselves have to reconcile. Roger Penrose stumbled on to one of those himself in search of confirmation.

He put the number at 1010123 to 1 ;-)

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 08:04 | 2379620 Element
Element's picture

I do believe I can raise that to a higher power:

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 19:06 | 2381372 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Oh yes, no doubt.

Evil will use whatever tactic necessary to meet its ends, lying, cheating, stealing, murder...blasphemy they don't even blink at...makes no difference, afterall, they are evil. If one is an ignorant fool and just accepts that someone is doing "God's work" without question and not looking at deeds...well they get exactly what's comin to them for being an ignorant fool.

But now we have exposed evil, we see its face, we know its there. So, like everything in life, there is a polar opposite.


Myself, I try to be good, hardly what my ideal of righteous is, but just like most people its a work in progress ;-)

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 18:22 | 2381303 Svener
Svener's picture

Ummmm, priests are men
Them dicks

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:18 | 2377909 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Oh, you mean like the trailer-park bishop in Florida who decided burning other religions scripture is a good custom to start? Which, apparently, some low-brow active-duty disciples in Kabul decided was a good idea.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 20:06 | 2378691 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

Well Manthong, you are correct. Sex with dead kiddies is strictly verbotten, but banging barnyard animals is a completely different matter. In fact the late Grand Ayatollah had something to say about owning goats, having sex with them and their disposition after. To wit:


Is there a proper Muslim way to have sex with animals? Indeed, there is! Guidelines for sex with animals can be found in the writings of Ayatollah Khomeini. Two excerpts from his writings serve to clarify the matter.

"A man can have sex with sheep, cows and camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village; however, selling the meat to the next door village should be fine." Don't the buyers deserve a discount of some kind?

Khomeini's "Tahrirolvasyleh" fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:11 | 2377876 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Goldensac has been sodomizing American people for years, what's with the 6 hour limit?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:15 | 2377894 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

i like ur handle azz

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:23 | 2377662 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

And note in Sharia law there's all kinds of loopholes on how it's okay to murder your i guess if she isn't putting out you accuse her of infidelity stone her to death and then bang her out for 6 whole hours! Fucking genius actually!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:29 | 2377692 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



A bit of our Judeo/Christian Law and Scripture:

Exodus 21:7: "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

Leviticus 20:10 "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

Leviticus 27:6 A child aged 1 month to five years of age was worth 5 shekels if a boy and 3 shekels if a girl.

Deuteronomy 21:10-13 describes how a soldier can force a woman captive to marry him without regard for her wishes.

Deuteronomy 22:13-21 requires that a woman be a virgin when she is married. If she has had sexual relations while single in her father's house, then she would be stoned to death.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 requires that a virgin woman who has been raped must marry her attacker, no matter what her feelings are towards the rapist.

Deuteronomy 25:11: If two men are fighting, and the wife of one of them grabs the other man's testicles, her hand is to be chopped off.


Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:33 | 2377699 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Hey I'm an equal oppurtunity discriminator when it comes to ALL religions. But the difference here is that those scriptures were written some time right after BC and AD 0 whereas this insanity i cited above is being amended TODAY! 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:37 | 2377728 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Actually, those were all well before Christ.  Jesus did clarify with this:

“Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.


-Luke 16:18

So, under the law, the happy new couple (she previously divorced) should be stoned, per Jesus Christ.


Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:40 | 2377740 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Hey I'm repulsed by all of it!


And just like today's politicians and cops, Jesus just couldn't mind his business...... 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:42 | 2377760 Pinktip
Pinktip's picture

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

John 8:7

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:43 | 2377769 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

cocaine is a helluva drug!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:51 | 2378019 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

.... and no one steps forward because they all have sinned as well. The whole point of that is that people are in no position to judge others.

you are lost and are preaching false doctrine. maybe you should actually read this book and not take quotes out of context

{8:1} Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. {8:2} And
early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all
the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught
them. {8:3} And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him
a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the
midst, {8:4} They say unto him, Master, this woman was
taken in adultery, in the very act. {8:5} Now Moses in the
law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what
sayest thou? {8:6} This they said, tempting him, that they
might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and
with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard
them not. ]{8:7} So when they continued asking him, he
lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin
among you, let him first cast a stone at her. {8:8} And again
he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. {8:9} And they
which heard [it,] being convicted by [their own] conscience,
went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the
last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in
the midst. {8:10} When Jesus had lifted up himself, and
saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where
are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
{8:11} She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her,
Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:02 | 2377842 Killer the Buzzard
Killer the Buzzard's picture

Jesus Christ also said "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." John 8:7

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:20 | 2377916 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture




Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:22 | 2377925 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture




Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:42 | 2377986 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

.... and no one steps forward because they all have sinned as well.  The whole point of that is that people are in no position to judge others.

you are lost and are preaching false doctrine.  maybe you should actually read this book and not take quotes out of context

{8:1} Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. {8:2} And
early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all
the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught
them. {8:3} And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him
a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the
midst, {8:4} They say unto him, Master, this woman was
taken in adultery, in the very act. {8:5} Now Moses in the
law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what
sayest thou? {8:6} This they said, tempting him, that they
might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and
with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard
them not. ]{8:7} So when they continued asking him, he
lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin
among you, let him first cast a stone at her. {8:8} And again
he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. {8:9} And they
which heard [it,] being convicted by [their own] conscience,
went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the
last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in
the midst. {8:10} When Jesus had lifted up himself, and
saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where
are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
{8:11} She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her,
Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:54 | 2378014 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



I do not know if I am lost, but The Way is indeed narrow. 

My tactic, maybe not so well executed, was to point out that as Christians we should not judge Muslims, but rather ourselves.

I like to think God knew what he was doing when he made Ishmael the patriarch of Islam.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:59 | 2378035 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

you have to understand that the whole truth movement has been hijacked by design to usher in a new world religion in the name of peace.  the foundation of this is to deny Jesus as the true and only son of God.  They will portray people who actually read the Bible as the enemy of this new one religion Utopia and a new holocaust will start.  just watch this

The Bible predicts this will happen.  It predicts a WWIII type scenario that wipes out 1/4 of the population (second seal in Revelation), hyperinflation (third seal in Revelation that says one will work an entire day for enough wages to just buy a loaf of bread), massive earthquakes, and then a whole world governance system. read Revelation

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 17:03 | 2378052 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



I try to leave the predictions to the prophets and the technical analysts.  My crystal ball is only a novelty item.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 17:04 | 2378066 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

the frustration of a Christian is talking to people like you who have never read the Bible cover-to-cover but believe they know it

Start with Revelation and work backwards.

This will help

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 17:12 | 2378095 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



...people like you who have never read the Bible cover-to-cover but believe they know it...

Blessed are those that make unsupported assertions, for they will be mocked as idiots on ZeroHedge.

You are an idiot.  God bless you!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 22:03 | 2378964 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Will you guys give it a fucking rest? If we want to read (random bits of) scripture we'll get a cheap hotel room and pick up a Gideon's.

Fucking religious spam, as if there isn't enough insanity in the world today without bringing your various versions of Flying Spaghetti Monsters into the mix.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 01:18 | 2379305 Likstane
Likstane's picture

@buzzard and comay mierda

John 7.53-8.11 is not found in the earliest manuscripts.  This is among many reasons it should not be referred to as scripture.  Some newer translations/versions footnote this.

In ch 7.37 the last day of the Feast of booths, or tabernacles is indicated, in which the temple would be lit up with torches and giant pan lights filled with oil.  The reason this is important is that Jesus proclaims Himself the "Light of the World" in ch 8.12.  This would be appropriate on the last night of the feast of the tabernacles.  To say it the next day would defeat the statement. 

Also in this false scripture is the account of a woman "caught in the very act of adultery".  In Jewish adherance to the Law in Deut. 22, both participants of the adulterous relationship were to be stoned.  Where was the man? 

There is also the inconsistancy of the description of Jesus and the woman being left alone in vrs 9 and then the statement in vrs 12 regarding Jesus again speaking to them.  Who are "them" if Jesus is left alone with the woman? 

There is also the description of Jesus writing on the ground twice.  Anything done twice in scripture must be important, yet there is no indication of what the writing was for.  Any interpretations of this writing is merely conjecture. 

Although these evidences render the authenticity of this passage nil, probably the most damning evidence is the last statement to the woman attributed to Jesus.  He tells her, "I do not condemn you either".  This is the only place in the Bible I can find an unrepentant and uncondemned person, let alone the absurdity of Jesus somehow needing to "agree" with all the ones who had left because of their sin. 

Although this passage is very often quoted (which is prob another strike against it), it serves to further the psuedo-christians notion that he or she can sin unrepentantly without condemnation.  Try reading it w/o the clumsily inserted passage and see how much more sense and continuity there is. 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:51 | 2378020 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

What about men who love women who love men?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 22:04 | 2378965 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I think I've seen that tape.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:39 | 2377742 battle axe
battle axe's picture

vast-dom, did we fo off our medication again? Do I have to call the  "special hospital"?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:41 | 2377755 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

i'm plain crazy with meds or without! That's why you can't help but love me! Just remember, I'm top you bottom, dead or alive!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:50 | 2377801 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

white sport coat with the really long sleeves...

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:31 | 2377954 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

This is stupid...there's no way a 5 year old girl is worth 3 sheckels.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 22:05 | 2378966 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Is that 3 new or old shekels?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:42 | 2377991 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

That's all fine and well, but I need some biblical advice on necro.  Surely the prophets didn't leave us to or own devices or Egyptian law?

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 00:10 | 2379229 GuyJeans
GuyJeans's picture

Even an asshole like me can read in context which you have failed to do. Way to copy/paste without understanding whole picture. 

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 10:47 | 2380176 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



You mean like vast-dom was selecting portions of a few Muslim's beliefs, or a different kind of copy/paste without understanding the whole picture?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:15 | 2377633 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture


Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:08 | 2377845 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Hell.  6 hours?  I could do it 2 or 3 times!  With my wife? Oh, nevermind.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:10 | 2377872 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

I'm waiting for the law when i can do it with all your dead wives!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 19:12 | 2378539 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

"A hole and a heartbeat...... and the heartbeat's optional"... sorry.. couldn't help myself.. never thought i'd get to use that in a forum..

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:18 | 2377905 Benjamin Glutton
Benjamin Glutton's picture

same clause JPMugger invoked on MFGlobal,imo.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 20:22 | 2378731 13thWarrior
13thWarrior's picture

I am a muslim and according to our religion when wife dies the contract of marriage ends. So going necrophilliac would constitute as illegal.


Islamists are not muslim, think of them as Bolsheviks. pawn of Brzezinski and their job is to liberate oil fields. Now their job is to not only radicalize muslims to serve control of Eurasia strategy but make all population around Israel as hostile to provoke a milatry response and occupation of Arab countries by Israel.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:12 | 2377883 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture



hedgeless_horseman said:

Q.  "My wife is an Equestrian from the planet Oblivion.  Do I have dual citizenship rights?"

A.  Only if your ride her into Oblivion.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:54 | 2378029 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Hedgeless, your wife may be equestrian from the planet O, but I'm equestrian from the waist down...reptilian from the waist up.

Lepers Tip of the Day: if you have dual citizenship, don't announce it at the airport

Hook Line & Sphincter

( ! ) J

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 19:48 | 2378633 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

"My wife is an Equestrian from the planet Oblivion.  Do I have dual citizenship rights?"


Damn, I've always had a Centaur fetish. You're a lucky man.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 20:55 | 2378809 FearLess_FLY
FearLess_FLY's picture

Sheesh. I remember being taught in grade school (circa 1964 USA) about the "Man without a Country" , where the USA would kick you out. Revoke citizenship.   DAMN sad that our (USA) government is now All about the money. Or is it that the Govt TiT Suckers have made it al about the money?


Thu, 04/26/2012 - 21:13 | 2378866 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

They can't allow american citizens to leave, because it would destroy the vision that everybody wants  to go or be american, pure and simple. 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 14:59 | 2377571 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

o' the land of the free

and the home of the slaves~

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:08 | 2377591 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

what, we're the hotel califonia now?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:24 | 2377670 Argos
Argos's picture

Great, thanks, now I can't get that stupid song out of my head.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:04 | 2377745 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

just feel lucky it wasn't a song reference to this...


now that might be grounds for a lawsuit ;)

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 22:07 | 2378971 BigJim
BigJim's picture


Thu, 04/26/2012 - 14:59 | 2377574 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Just say you've moved to Iran and will pay your taxes through wire-transfer.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:03 | 2377583 idea_hamster
idea_hamster's picture

Nice one!  Now smile for the drone camera.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:24 | 2377671 citta vritti
citta vritti's picture

scrape, scrape went the internets. all just rosebud, until someone needs to see if there's anything there, you know, just to see what there is.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:00 | 2377577 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

am not a bit surprised!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:30 | 2377695 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Nor am I surprised...about 160 years ago these same bastards denied half the people of this nation their rights to leave the Federal extortion racket.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:57 | 2378039 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

your assfire sears greatly today!

Hook Line & Sphincter

( ! ) J

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 18:03 | 2378308 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

The Recent Unpleasantness

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:04 | 2377582 malikai
malikai's picture

Sounds like Mr. O'Keefe makes more than $110k/yr. I think his application will be accepted in 10 years time.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:04 | 2377588 Death and Gravity
Death and Gravity's picture

...after which his income will be worth about 11k/yr in todays dollars?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:08 | 2377602 malikai
malikai's picture

I think that depends on where the dude lives and who wins the race to debase.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:03 | 2377584 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Strange subject. Despite not living in the States as well as feeling increasingly isolated from national dialogue when I visit or associate, I wouldn't dream of going as far as 'divorcing'.

Seems there is much too much hypocrisy in doing so.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:06 | 2377592 malikai
malikai's picture

I won't either. I've been out for quite a few years. Best move I've made, but I'm not going to drop citizenship.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:06 | 2377594 Death and Gravity
Death and Gravity's picture

Why exactly?


What benefit is it to you to remain "an American"?


What purpose do you serve by remaining so?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:14 | 2377627 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Well, firstly I was naturalized, and so obviously, conscious of my decision.

Purpose? I get to remain dual, might even get one more I'm not sure.

Benefit is only one side of the coin, duty being the other and I still feel some of that.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:57 | 2377819 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

This is a serious question: Duty to what?  The empire? The cause of liberty?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:04 | 2377585 WoodMizer
WoodMizer's picture

Looks like Ron Paul was right again; "The fence will be used to keep us in".

I guess we can't let any remaining capital leave our "freemarket Capitalist system".

long: Boats

short: the thin veneer of democracy 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:06 | 2377597 cossack55
cossack55's picture

So you are suggesting the future headline:

   "Miami boat people rescued by Cuban Navy"

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:10 | 2377614 WoodMizer
WoodMizer's picture

More like;

"20 Private yachts headed for Iceland siezed with 1ton of illegal gold on board" 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:55 | 2377813 pods
pods's picture

As we fall further, this will be how it will play out:

"20 Private yachts headed for Iceland siezed with a quarter ton of gold found on board" 

Which will progress to:

"20 Private yachts headed for Iceland siezed with a nothing found on board" 


"Nothing found and some mercs got some new fancy boats."

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:59 | 2377824 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

You all forgot the most important adjective of the title: Terrorist!  You know it would be in there.  Let's be honest.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:33 | 2377710 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

OK so I'm a real-world example. I went to the local consulate in Sydney and said I wanted to renounce, I'd lived in AUS for six years and didn't need my US Passport any more. I was required to go home and think about it for a week, then set a second appointment. OK. So I go in the second time:

"Hi I want to renounce"

"Ok, but are you aware of the consequences? It's always comforting to know that if something bad happens in the country, there's always the US Navy who can come and help you out" (no I'm not making this up, this is verbatim)

"Ok, so are we supposed to have a discussion about this?"

"Yes, it's important that citizens understand all of the consequences..."

"So let me see if I understand: say there's something bad here in Australia, like a surfer's rebellion or something, you're saying that the Navy is going to send a battleship into Sydney Harbor and pick me up?"

"Well, um, aww..."

Anyway yesterday I received my approval. They often attempt to charge an "exit fee" which can run to many tens of thousands if you have a large amount of assets (no fee for me, and besides the "compliance rate" for people paying exit fees is around 9%...chumps)

(While I'm here I just want to say hello to the NSA and the dozens of other agencies spying on me, just like the good old communist days of the Soviet Union or East Germany, hi guys, have a nice day. No, I am not the droid you're looking for...)

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 23:29 | 2379152 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

SO how is it down under? I may come join you....

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:05 | 2377590 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

You are with US, and that's final!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:25 | 2377674 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Well, okay ... just don't hate me for my freedumbs.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:06 | 2377595 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

If you want to bring he system down just STOP SPENDING MONEY!
It might only take about 10%-20% to cut their spending by half to shrink the economy. Then govt debt explodes in their faces. Is this a plan?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:08 | 2377601 cossack55
cossack55's picture

The ever-shrinking amount of disposable remaining to me goes strictly into the ZH favorites.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:10 | 2377613 malikai
malikai's picture

Bleed the fucker.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:12 | 2377623 WoodMizer
WoodMizer's picture

Death by 100 million budget cuts.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:04 | 2377851 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

I'm a disabled vet and did not apply for benefits for many years because I refused to steal from others to get them. Then I got to thinking about it. Bleed the fucker to death indeed. Everyone should apply for every nickel they can get, but just do not depend on it. Bleed it! Take every penny back of your taxes. If you do not take it, some one else will. The moral implications used to bother me, but the sooner the beast dies the better off we'll all be. I'm still being robbed whether I take anything or not too.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 18:00 | 2378299 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I have been taking all of those benefits and converting it into tangible assets. I don't care what anyone says to me about it. I went and got my ass blown up for the lie, so I'm going to help bring the lie to it's knees.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:20 | 2377656 resurger
resurger's picture

Earn more, spend less, save!

+1 nslex


Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:05 | 2377856 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Yes, get out of all debt to include mortgages and car payments.  Do not maintain credit card debt.  Do not keep money in a bank either.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:34 | 2377720 aerial view
aerial view's picture

Yes, this may be the only way to stick it to them: become more self-sufficient and barter for services!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:08 | 2377603 dbTX
dbTX's picture

Perfect plan in four easy steps:

1. Relinquest your US citizenship

2. Move to Mexico

3. Illegially immigrate back to US

4. Apply for and receive all benefits afforded illegials

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:26 | 2377677 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Yeah, but you have to agree to vote Democrat ... there are some things that go beyond the pale.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:37 | 2377722 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture


I'd add 0. Become a US citizen if you're not already one

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:52 | 2377804 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Where is Charlie when you need him? This is just typical USCitizenism ... assuming you have to be in the club to leave it.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:08 | 2377604 trentusa
trentusa's picture

Tyler thanks for giving this some coverage. I heard about this not too long and I'm personally outraged. This story checks out so far as I can tell & I read all 50 pages. What do ya'll think about this 1930s bankruptcy talk? A social contract based on a lie is fraud plain & simple.

U.S. Inc. Goes To Geneva 1930's

In order for you to understand just how this fraud works, you need to know the history of its inception. It goes like this: from 1928 - 1932 there were five years of Geneva conventions. Millions of people were starving during the Great Depression & a deal had to be made with the international creditors. The nations of the world met in Geneva, Switzerland for 5 continuous years in order to set up what would be the policy of all the participating countries. During the year of 1930 the U.S., Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. all declared bankruptcy. If you try to look up the 1930 minutes, you will not find them because they don't publish this particular volume. If you try to find the 1930 volume which contains the minutes of what happened, you will probably not find it. This volume has been pulled out of circulation or is hidden in the library and is very hard to find. This volume contains the evidence of the bankruptcy.

Going into 1932, they stopped meeting in Geneva. In 1932 Franklin Roosevelt came into power as President of the United States. Roosevelt's job was to put into place and administer the bankruptcy that had been declared two years earlier. The corporate government needed a key Supreme Court decision. The corporate United States government had to have a legal case on the books to set the stage for recognizing, implementing and supporting the bankruptcy. Now, this doesn't mean the bankruptcy wasn't implemented before 1938 with the Erie RR v. Thompkins decision. The bankruptcy started in 1930-1931. The bankruptcy definitely started when Roosevelt came into office. He was sworn in during the month of January, 1933. He started right away in the bankruptcy with what is known as the "The Banking Holiday," and proceeded in pulling in gold coin out of circulation. That was the beginning of the United States Public Policy for bankruptcy.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:38 | 2377733 illyia
illyia's picture

That is pretty interesting, although the web site is over the top. Still, I cannot say that I'm surprised. There's alot of hidden history we were never taught... ah, I mean deliberately untaught.

History goes to the victors.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:42 | 2377759 resurger
resurger's picture

will history repeat it self

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:57 | 2377820 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

Roosevelt was sworn in in March 1933, not January 1933..... probably the first of many errors in that article

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:08 | 2377605 Seditious Blasphemer
Seditious Blasphemer's picture

>2 rats be on sinking ship
>1 rat says to the other, "fuck this I'm outta' here, come on!"
>Other rat says, "I cant, my application to jump off this sinking ship was denied by the captain."


Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:09 | 2377606 Mercury
Mercury's picture

The good news is: they're finally going to build those heavy duty border fences...

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:08 | 2377608 vegas
vegas's picture

Which FEMA camp do I report to? Can it be somewhere in the South, 'cause I prefer warmer weather? We get what we vote for; just like the sheeple in Germany in the 1930's.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 01:33 | 2379321 Likstane
Likstane's picture

I want to be in one of the government mining camps.  That way I still get to touch the gold even if I can't keep it.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:12 | 2377609 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

America might be getting worse but it's still the best country in the world.
If I got the choice and didn't have kids, I'd move from Europe to America'

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:22 | 2377663 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I think that's the part everybody forgets. Where do you go? The infestation of corruption and abuse is everywhere.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:25 | 2377669 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Exactly, our shit over here in Europe stinks twice as hard

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:10 | 2377874 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

I'm not going anywhere.  Whether our liberties are restored or not, I'll be dying here.  If we do not fight for liberty here, we'll be assuring the complete enslavement of our children.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:12 | 2377884 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Exactly, don't hate America, hate the once that are trying to bring it down!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 18:41 | 2378453 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

It must come down, to eliminate the bad seed. It'll still be the best place, only the bankers will all be pushin' daisies.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:33 | 2377960 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Columbia.  At least there you can waste your money on las chicas. 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:38 | 2377736 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Why don't you get a job there and get a H1 visa, it would be a start.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:36 | 2377970 Tortuga
Tortuga's picture

Want directions on making a tinfoil hat, bubba. It's the only protection from the rays of the full moon which seemed to have reached maximum intensity on this site today, this afternoon, right now.

In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.
H. L. Mencken 

(or a democrat)

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:14 | 2377612 Reptil
Reptil's picture

ehh the TSA will now finger you in your orifice when you leave the great paradise of the west? but that's for all the potential terrorists of course.

NONE of that if you have a wonderful TSA Prevtm clearance. That's right... it has a "magically invisible name, not html compliant" so innovative, so bedazzeling, it makes your mouth water!

yes, that's right, you guessed it, yes YOU, you can buy your way through IF you're on the magic list, prescreening they call that, or escreening... perhaps more magical invisible letters?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:20 | 2377655 aerojet
aerojet's picture

And to think, all he really had to do was go live in a trailer park in Wyoming and nobody would bother with him one way or the other.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 17:03 | 2378062 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

The fact that TSA bends to the business crowd is very revealing. 

Money buys security clearance. 

Give me a fucking break and end the department of crotch grabbing faggots with IQ35, and theft.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 18:48 | 2378466 Reptil
Reptil's picture

The easily corruptable are often not very intelligent. Otherwise they'd realise they've betrayed themselves.

They're useful tools in the hands of powermongers. And a sheen of officiality will provoce animalistic brutality in some. There are ample examples in written history.

That is the strenght but also the weakness of an emerging absolute power system. Men of power and good will are required to counter this, over and over again.

I believe personally that is not the essence of humanity, rather a regression in a previous, less adapted form, still present in all of us.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:11 | 2377615 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

You know how many around the world would literally risk death just to be able to get a piece of being an American citizen?  Ask all the Mexicans and south americans who try and make their way into the States, not to mention illegals making their way in shipping crates.  Horrible post, as per usual, by Black

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:19 | 2377649 ss123
ss123's picture

The Mexicans are actually heading back to Mexico. Google it.

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